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The Marvel Cinematic Universe: The Avengers, etc.


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12 hours ago, Dani said:

One thing that really irritates me is that I have seen conversation after conversation happening about how Wanda needs to be punished for Westview but haven’t seen anyone expressing the same sentiment about Druig. After Eternals he was one of the more popular characters and no one seemed to care that he did the same thing Wanda did on purpose and for 500 years longer. 

After slogging through The Eternals I am asking who? He or she  does not have the current fan  history of Wanda after 4 movies and almost 60 years of comics. 

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To be fair: The motivation of the two characters are entirely different. Druig is mostly driven by the desire to protect his people, while Wanda is driven by the desire to have her own happiness. 

On the other hand, Druig knows perfectly well that what he does is actually stifling the people he wants to protect, while Wanda is deep in denial over what she has done and lets everyone go once she realizes it, despite it being a huge sacrifice for her...

Yeah, Druig is worse. 

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12 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

Maybe it's just me, but the morality seems clear.

Not to me. I’m not picking an option because they are all awful. Theoretically, I would lean toward the reset rather than the unimaginable chaos that would happen by bringing everyone back. To me never being born isn’t the same as being killed. Of course that’s a lot easier to say from an observer standpoint. As fans we spent length of the one movie in that world so it is an abstract discussion. I would imagine that the opinion of the people living in that world would also vary greatly. 

It’s an idea that comes up a lot in science fiction where a time traveler inadvertently makes a change and returns home to different child. They want desperately to fix it and the people living in that timeline fight like hell against a change. 

Ultimately my objection isn’t about the choice that was made but about the framing of that choice and the aftermath. I would have understood and been fine with either choice. The same framing that holds up some characters (usually men) as unquestionably right and others (usually women) as wrong or at least questionable. 

3 hours ago, Raja said:

After slogging through The Eternals I am asking who? He or she  does not have the current fan  history of Wanda after 4 movies and almost 60 years of comics. 

Fair point although he does have 45 years of comic history. I don’t expect the amount of conversation about him to be equal to Wanda but it was nonexistent. I am talking about in spaces where The Eternals and Druig were discussed and where conversations about Wanda culpability happened a lot. The double standard was glaring. The times I’ve seen what he did brought up at all is by a handful of people who do so to point out the double standard. Once again a big part of that is the framing. WandaVision let the horror of what Wanda did be on display while Eternals didn’t do the same with Druig. 

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4 hours ago, Ailianna said:

Hulk said it when he brought everyone back that he tried to make them all be safe. 

When? I rewatched recently and don’t remember that. He does say “everyone comes back” before the snap but after his last scene with Cap I think he was talking about trying to bring Nat back with everyone else. 

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(edited)
On 7/9/2022 at 3:44 PM, ICantDoThatDave said:

No, that's just recently.  100k is a good selling comic *today*.  Go back in time & that would get you cancelled after 1 issue.  For example, Superman #75 (The Death of Superman) sold roughly 6 million copies.  Spawn #1 sold 1.75 million copies.  Todd McFarlane's Spider-Man #1 comic sold 2.35 million comics.  A random monthly uneventful issue of Uncanny X-Men sold about 400,000 copies.  [all stats thanks to Google :) ]

That was all 30 years ago, though.  Not really comparable to today.

I remember reading a John Byrne interview where he said that during his and Claremont's amazing run, Uncanny X-Men hovered just above cancelation at 100,000 issues sold. The end of the Dark Phoenix Saga saw a jump to 175,000 but immediately went back to 100,000. After Byrne left a few issues later, sales of Uncanny X-Men jumped to 400,000 and joked that he apparently had been holding Claremont back.

On the post-Blip landscape, it deserves credit for being such a big concept idea to tackle. But the reality is it would be an absolute mess and nightmare. Half the population is taken away for five years. People would move in and then these people come back? An absolute nightmare of housing, property and population issues. It would be an unsustainable situation. Not to mention every future movie and TV show is affected. Take Ms. Marvel. No mention of The Blip is made there but ate we to believe no member of Kamala's family or friends or even Kamala herself was blipped out of existence? This isn't The Leftovers where only 2% of the population was affected. This is literally half the population of the planet so somebody lost someone. Marvel wants to act like it happened but ignores the fact that something like this would be an anarchy-type mess.

Also, The Blip was such a massive storyline, how do you possibly top it? You don't get much bigger stakes than half the population of the universe.  The storyline was great but it's too big to be topped. It probably should have been the last MCU story ever told. That's probably a reason why the post-Blip movies have struggled with Spider-Man being a notable exception. 

I'm huge fan of the MCU. I'm still here and that's not going to change. But these are my observations on the current state of it.

Edited by benteen
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Also, The Blip was such a massive storyline, how do you possibly top it? You don't get much bigger stakes than half the population of the universe. 

Secret Wars (2015) says "Hold my beers..."

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1 hour ago, Hiyo said:

Secret Wars (2015) says "Hold my beers..."

Certainly one way to bring F4 and X-Men in, IIRC (how it ends).

We're getting Secret Invasion on D+ but, I'm confused how that will work in the MCU

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3 hours ago, benteen said:

On the post-Blip landscape, it deserves credit for being such a big concept idea to tackle. But the reality is it would be an absolute mess and nightmare. Half the population is taken away for five years. People would move in and then these people come back? An absolute nightmare of housing, property and population issues. It would be an unsustainable situation. Not to mention every future movie and TV show is affected. Take Ms. Marvel. No mention of The Blip is made there but ate we to believe no member of Kamala's family or friends or even Kamala herself was blipped out of existence? This isn't The Leftovers where only 2% of the population was affected. This is literally half the population of the planet so somebody lost someone. Marvel wants to act like it happened but ignores the fact that something like this would be an anarchy-type mess.

Also, The Blip was such a massive storyline, how do you possibly top it? You don't get much bigger stakes than half the population of the universe.  The storyline was great but it's too big to be topped. It probably should have been the last MCU story ever told. That's probably a reason why the post-Blip movies have struggled with Spider-Man being a notable exception. 

I'm huge fan of the MCU. I'm still here and that's not going to change. But these are my observations on the current state of it.

It seems as if the jokes on Spider-Man and the more serious take on The Falcon and the Winter Soldier is going to be the end of discussion of the Blip on the greater society. Meanwhile as a last chance child of aging parents Ms Marvel should have been a perfect place to look at the issues involved 

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5 hours ago, benteen said:

Also, The Blip was such a massive storyline, how do you possibly top it? You don't get much bigger stakes than half the population of the universe. 

Half the population of one universe with one version of the heroes and villains.  Wait until the entire multiverse is at stake and various versions of different heroes will need to team up and save all of existence.

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Russo Bros on ‘Everything Everywhere,’ ‘The Gray Man’ and Working With Netflix: “Nobody Bothers You”
BY MIA GALUPPO   JULY 15, 2022
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-features/anthony-and-joe-russo-the-gray-man-netflix-marvel-1235180430/ 

Quote

Marvel has been set up as an industry foil. Is that something you both have noticed?

ANTHONY The overwhelming success of those movies has caused them to represent something that has become “other,” or maybe not attainable to some others for whatever reason. Not every movie has to be liked globally.

JOE When I was 19, I used to love U2. And then they started getting some commercial success, beyond their MTV early days, where they were the biggest band in the world. And I was like, “I hate U2. I’m sick of U2. They’re so ubiquitous!” That was just my ego trying to define myself against the masses. Then, 10 years later, I was like, “I fucking love U2. Why did I do that?” I outgrew it. It feels like a very juvenile conversation. The whole thing feels sad and cynical and pessimistic. You’re talking about movies that 10-year-olds are weeping over and begging to go see. They’ll remember for decades that they were there with their grandfather. Like, give me a fucking break.

Edited by tv echo
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(edited)

FWIW, the mods on the Marvel Studios Spoilers reddit page posted the following info yesterday...

Tales From The Mod Queue: Eternals 2, Quake, The Marvels, and Many More!
Posted by u/MSSmods Vision     July 17, 2022
Reddit page link

Spoiler

Welcome back to another Special Edition of Tales from the Mod Queue! The info on this post came directly to us from several non-verified, but trusted sources. Some of the information was provided prior to public details that are now known. While we trust the content of this post, it is advisable to take it with a grain of salt. Enjoy!

Quantumania

- Confirms Daniel RPK’s plot leak (We had info on a lot of it months before)

- Cassie finds her suit in Hank Pym's basement while snooping around

- We see Cassie in giant form

- Bill Murray plays Krylar

- Krylar raises an army of humanoid aliens from the Quantum Realm to try to defeat Kang/MODOK

- MODOK looks just like he does in the comics

- The army fails, but team Ant-Man summons an army of ants and is able to beat Kang

- Corey Stoll plays MODOK

- Expect to hear the name Victor Timely in the movie

Wakanda Forever

- Confirms Daniel RPK’s plot leak, but says it’s missing a lot of details

- Recent bulky Ironheart leaked concept art’s true

- There’s a mutant in the movie (Probably Namor will be revealed to be one, but it should be a big deal, as it was talked about a lot behind the scenes)

- Dr. Doom post-credits scene was filmed with a stand-in (This was before anyone else mentioned it)

The Marvels

- There's going to be a scene of a spaceship under attack/in trouble. Humans are on board, potentially Skrulls too and everyone is panicking

- Not sure if they were already on the loose or if they break free, but there are loads of Flerken kittens running about and they start eating people, which scares them even more. Then they start to realize the kittens are saving people by eating them and transporting them to safety somehow

Echo

- Charlie Cox only filmed for a few days

- One of the villains of the show is described as a hunter-like character that’s wild and crazy and will force Echo out of wherever she is at the start of the series

Fantastic Four

- They’re looking for actors in their late 20s to mid 30s for the main cast

- No actor has currently signed on for the movie

Ironheart

- Alden Ehrenreich’s playing Zeke Stane, Obadiah Stane’s kid

Werewolf By Night

- Harriet Samson Harris plays a Transylvanian cult leader

- Jack Russell and others hunt Man-Thing so that they can get something called the Bloodstone (Bloodgem from the comics)

- The hunt takes place in the enormous, gothic manor of Ulysses Bloodstone

- Some corpses will be reanimated, and they give instructions on the hunt

- There are two versions of the special: one in black and white, and one in color

- They intend to release it in black and white

Eternals 2

- Eternals 2 is on track

- There were many production issues on Eternals that made it a harder task than the average Marvel movie

- A lot of folks inside Marvel Studios don’t want to go through that again

- Expect Chloé Zhao to either be heavily restricted or, more likely, not return at all for the sequel

Animation

- Marvel Studios has at least 4 unannounced animated shows

- One of those shows is the one of this Jin casting call

- Jin will not be a main character, she appears in an episode in the middle of the series

- The show involves alien weapons that are placed on Earth, which include the Ten Rings and Kamala’s bangle

- The show should be officially announced during the animation panel at SDCC

- What If? Season 2 will have at least 9 episodes

Casting

- Elden Henson (Foggy) has signed with Marvel Studios

- Deborah Ann Woll (Karen) should also be back, but no confirmation of her already having signed with Marvel

- Chloe Bennet (Quake) has signed with Marvel Studios

Bonus

- Gary Oldman was a top pick to play Arthur Harrow in Moon Knight, before Oscar Isaac brought in Ethan Hawke

- Hawkeye isn’t listed as a limited series inside Marvel Studios

Edited by tv echo
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 That path was not clear until multiple movies in process. Even then, they were just throwing things out and seeing what happens. Thanos at the end of the first avengers was just something Joss through on. There was no grand plan

Are you talking about Thanos/Infinity War taking several movies or Avengers? I'm pretty sure Avengers was the only plan they had at the start.  Now, I imagine it was a very loose/wouldn't it be nice plan since there was no guarantee they'd succeed but, I do think the initial end Credits all built towards Avengers 2012.

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2 hours ago, BaggythePanther said:

That’s more like Easter eggs that’ll only be noticed by people who read/are familiar with comics. Phase 1-3 spoon fed the buildup. We’re literally told an Avengers team will be created. You see Thanos with the gauntlet and the Infinity stones start popping up. But Val never gave the impression she was creating a team the way Fury did and as of right now there are no on screen connections between the Young Avengers.

I can’t agree that they are just Easter eggs. Introducing Cassie and having her talk about being her dad’s partner was an Easter egg. Introducing nearly every other Young Avenger is building a team. They don’t need to spell it out in obvious dialogue the way they did in phase 1. 

In Iron Man all the Avengers hints were pie in the sky dreams they hoped would come true. In the rest of phase 1 they needed to spell it out because they were a fledgling studio who gambled everything. They needed to build hype and interest. Now they don’t. 

They don’t need Val to say she building a team it was guessed from her first appearance and now has been confirmed. They don’t need to say they are building the Young Avengers. They to zero chance they have very successfully cast the lineup to not bring them together in the near future. 

Just like the introduce Clea in MoM without ever saying her name. 

2 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Now, I imagine it was a very loose/wouldn't it be nice plan since there was no guarantee they'd succeed but, I do think the initial end Credits all built towards Avengers 2012.

They did but everyone involved with Iron Man has said it was more hope then a well formed plan. In many ways they got lucky that so much of what they put out there in phase 1 panned out. 

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2 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Are you talking about Thanos/Infinity War taking several movies or Avengers? I'm pretty sure Avengers was the only plan they had at the start.  Now, I imagine it was a very loose/wouldn't it be nice plan since there was no guarantee they'd succeed but, I do think the initial end Credits all built towards Avengers 2012.

They didn't know what they were building towards in so much as they didn't know if it was going to work. I'm sure they had avengers in their mind as a big movie but that whole phase is not concrete. There still rights issues they were dealing with and no one had really tried THIS before. It was a dream more than it was a plan. Multiple people have said this.

But, if people are waiting for another grand team up, it will be a while.

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(edited)

Marvel Studios Spoilers reddit page has post with some odd rumors about the Marvels from Daniel RPK. The mod said another source backed him up.

Edited by Oreo2234
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On 7/18/2022 at 5:29 PM, Racj82 said:

But, if people are waiting for another grand team up, it will be a while.

They are. There have been complaints that the new phase seems disjointed and disconnected, because we've really just wound up a decade of movies and the end of The Original Six. Yes, there's lots of stuff in the works, but I think it's going to be small team ups and solo projects rather than a movie with a dozen or more characters going up against a major threat like Thanos. Even The Eternals was set up, with more to come with their sequel, whenever that starts filming.

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On 7/18/2022 at 8:29 PM, Racj82 said:

But, if people are waiting for another grand team up, it will be a while.

It will happen if they decide they need to boost their box office - the good times won't last forever.  There's also the advantage of keeping anyone like RDJ who is willing to participate but doesn't want to devote the time needed to carry a solo movie. 

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On 7/18/2022 at 9:28 AM, tv echo said:

FWIW, the mods on the Marvel Studios Spoilers reddit page posted the following info yesterday...

Tales From The Mod Queue: Eternals 2, Quake, The Marvels, and Many More!
Posted by u/MSSmods Vision     July 17, 2022
Reddit page link

  Reveal spoiler

Welcome back to another Special Edition of Tales from the Mod Queue! The info on this post came directly to us from several non-verified, but trusted sources. Some of the information was provided prior to public details that are now known. While we trust the content of this post, it is advisable to take it with a grain of salt. Enjoy!

Quantumania

- Confirms Daniel RPK’s plot leak (We had info on a lot of it months before)

- Cassie finds her suit in Hank Pym's basement while snooping around

- We see Cassie in giant form

- Bill Murray plays Krylar

- Krylar raises an army of humanoid aliens from the Quantum Realm to try to defeat Kang/MODOK

- MODOK looks just like he does in the comics

- The army fails, but team Ant-Man summons an army of ants and is able to beat Kang

- Corey Stoll plays MODOK

- Expect to hear the name Victor Timely in the movie

Wakanda Forever

- Confirms Daniel RPK’s plot leak, but says it’s missing a lot of details

- Recent bulky Ironheart leaked concept art’s true

- There’s a mutant in the movie (Probably Namor will be revealed to be one, but it should be a big deal, as it was talked about a lot behind the scenes)

- Dr. Doom post-credits scene was filmed with a stand-in (This was before anyone else mentioned it)

The Marvels

- There's going to be a scene of a spaceship under attack/in trouble. Humans are on board, potentially Skrulls too and everyone is panicking

- Not sure if they were already on the loose or if they break free, but there are loads of Flerken kittens running about and they start eating people, which scares them even more. Then they start to realize the kittens are saving people by eating them and transporting them to safety somehow

Echo

- Charlie Cox only filmed for a few days

- One of the villains of the show is described as a hunter-like character that’s wild and crazy and will force Echo out of wherever she is at the start of the series

Fantastic Four

- They’re looking for actors in their late 20s to mid 30s for the main cast

- No actor has currently signed on for the movie

Ironheart

- Alden Ehrenreich’s playing Zeke Stane, Obadiah Stane’s kid

Werewolf By Night

- Harriet Samson Harris plays a Transylvanian cult leader

- Jack Russell and others hunt Man-Thing so that they can get something called the Bloodstone (Bloodgem from the comics)

- The hunt takes place in the enormous, gothic manor of Ulysses Bloodstone

- Some corpses will be reanimated, and they give instructions on the hunt

- There are two versions of the special: one in black and white, and one in color

- They intend to release it in black and white

Eternals 2

- Eternals 2 is on track

- There were many production issues on Eternals that made it a harder task than the average Marvel movie

- A lot of folks inside Marvel Studios don’t want to go through that again

- Expect Chloé Zhao to either be heavily restricted or, more likely, not return at all for the sequel

Animation

- Marvel Studios has at least 4 unannounced animated shows

- One of those shows is the one of this Jin casting call

- Jin will not be a main character, she appears in an episode in the middle of the series

- The show involves alien weapons that are placed on Earth, which include the Ten Rings and Kamala’s bangle

- The show should be officially announced during the animation panel at SDCC

- What If? Season 2 will have at least 9 episodes

Casting

- Elden Henson (Foggy) has signed with Marvel Studios

- Deborah Ann Woll (Karen) should also be back, but no confirmation of her already having signed with Marvel

- Chloe Bennet (Quake) has signed with Marvel Studios

Bonus

- Gary Oldman was a top pick to play Arthur Harrow in Moon Knight, before Oscar Isaac brought in Ethan Hawke

- Hawkeye isn’t listed as a limited series inside Marvel Studios

There's a Twitter account called Marvel Studios that posted the same info. 

Does anyone know if these people have legit sources or are they just taking anything and running with it?

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2 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

There's a Twitter account called Marvel Studios that posted the same info. 

Does anyone know if these people have legit sources or are they just taking anything and running with it?

I would vote the later, especially now in between releases the what ifs run wild. The Chloe Bennett one cropped up a couple of years ago before she shot it down.

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1 hour ago, Raja said:

I would vote the later, especially now in between releases the what ifs run wild. The Chloe Bennett one cropped up a couple of years ago before she shot it down.

Ah thanks. I was wondering. They didn't have a Blue Check and some of it just seems hard to believe at would be available info at this point.

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5 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

There's a Twitter account called Marvel Studios that posted the same info. 

Does anyone know if these people have legit sources or are they just taking anything and running with it?

A lot of accounts like that just repost what other people of said. How reliable it is depends on the original source of the rumor. Generally speaking, outside of the trades and Marvel, Murphy’s Multiverse is the only that site that I consider reliable. He can be wrong but generally only posts things that come from good sources. Most others have a mix of accurate things (either from legit sources or stole from others) and complete crap posted just to make money. 

This information comes from two places, DanielRPK and the mods at the marvel spoilers Reddit. DanielRPK is only somewhat reliable. The mods go by what people send them and they try to verify sources but admit it could be completely wrong. 

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Marvel's SDCC 2022: Day 1 Recap
BY MEAGAN DAMORE    JULY 22, 2022
https://www.marvel.com/articles/culture-lifestyle/marvel-san-diego-comic-con-sdcc-2022-day-1-recap 

Best of Marvel @ SDCC 2022 | Day 1
Marvel Entertainment    Jul 21, 2022

Look Inside Marvel's Booth at SDCC 2022!
Marvel Entertainment    Jul 21, 2022


Comic-Con 2022: What To Expect From Marvel, Dwayne Johnson & Those Dragonslayers On HBO
By Lynette Rice, Anthony D'Alessandro   July 20, 2022
https://deadline.com/2022/07/comic-con-2022-schedule-what-to-expect-marvel-the-rock-teen-wolf-1235072894/ 

Quote

Marvel shouldn’t disappoint with sneak peeks of Black Panther: Wakanda Forever and the upcoming She-Hulk: Attorney at Law for Disney+. But it’s not expected to shower Hall H with an embarrassment of riches like it did in 2019; some sources believe Marvel is saving it all up for Disney’s fan convention D23 during the second weekend of September, specifically in regards to new projects. There’s still stuff we haven’t seen, specifically the Fantastic Four reboot, Mahershala Ali in The Blade, Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 (due May 5), The Marvels (July 28, 2023) and The Mutants.

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The Russo Brothers Break Down Their Most Iconic Films & TV Shows | GQ
GQ   Jul 14, 2022

Quote

00:00 Intro
00:21 Captain America: Winter Soldier
02:42 Captain America: Civil War
07:14 Avengers: Infinity War
09:50 Arrested Development
14:31 Community
18:44 Avengers: Endgame
21:24 The Gray Man

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33 minutes ago, starri said:

Marvel Studios has trademarked the following titles.

  • Avengers: Secret Wars
  • Avengers: Kang Dynasty
  • Thunderbolts
  • Multiverse Saga
  • Captain America: New World Order

Well that answers the question of what their building towards. Not very surprising. I wonder how much of it is going to be announced at the ComicCon panel tomorrow. 

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I'm curious if Secret Wars would be a movie or a series.  Assuming they're using the 2015 story as inspiration, I don't know how they do it without a Fantastic Four movie, because it was an FF-focused event.

And absent that, Ant-Man and the Wasp suddenly become the lynchpin of Kang Dynasty, which actually does track, because Wasp was Avengers chairperson during that story.

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58 minutes ago, starri said:

I'm curious if Secret Wars would be a movie or a series.  Assuming they're using the 2015 story as inspiration, I don't know how they do it without a Fantastic Four movie, because it was an FF-focused event.

The Fantastic Four movie was confirmed at the last big Marvel event pre-COVID.  I’m guessing we will get more information tomorrow. 

I am super curious about the Black Panther 2 trailer that is rumored to be released during the panel and how much it will give away about how they are handling the loss Chadwick. 

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The Marvel animation ComicCon panel was today. 

It was announced that Spider-Man: Freshman Year (2024) will get a second season. 

The second season of What If…? has a 2023 release date and is getting a third season.

X-Men ‘97 (fall 2023) has been greenlit for a second season. The series will pick up immediately after the X-Men: The Animated Series finale. 

This article has a lot more details on storylines and who is going to appear in all the animated shows for anyone who is interested. 

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Quote

I don't know how they do it without a Fantastic Four movie, because it was an FF-focused event

The same way they were able to adapt Infinity Gauntlet without Adam Warlock and the Silver Surfer.

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(edited)

Anything come out of SDCC today? I thought they had a panel?

ETA: Looks like the panel starts in an hour. Will check back later.

they also released a Quantumania trailer

Edited by Morrigan2575
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The SDCC panel has started. I’ll post updates here. 

Phase 4 ends with Wakanda Forever.

Ant-Man and The Wasp: Quantumania is the start of phase 5.

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Captain America: New World Order May 3, 2024

Thunderbolts - July 26, 2024

Blade- November 3, 2023

New She-Hulk trailer

Daredevil confirmed to be in She-Hulk. 

Maria Hill will be in Secret Invasion. 

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6 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Probably the Skrull impersonator again. 

Or both. I would be surprised if we don’t see the real Maria during the series. 

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