Felicity Smoak: Bitch With Wifi

[Luckylyn]

What I like about Felicity is that she's not just the love interest?  She has an integral place on the team regardless of whether or not she and Oliver ever get together.  I hope the writers understand that and allow her to have a life outside of Oliver.  I love that they've established a strong bond with Diggle and Felicity separate from Oliver.  Now I want to see her have more connections.    I wouldn't mind more interaction with Felicity and characters like Sara, Walter, Quentin, and Lyla.  I worry sometimes that Felicity will become like Cordelia Chase on Angel where the writers seemed to forget she was her own person, with her own story arch, and bonds with people outside of Angel himself.  Because once they changed their minds about Cordelia/Angel being an item they just discarded Cordy as if her only purpose was to be the love interest, and I don't want that happening to Felicity.

[tv echo]

Reading through the early Felicity Smoak discussion on this thread just makes me realise how strange the fake out actually was. I noticed Slade didn't do much of anything to Felicity or Diggle, except Diggle got his behind handed to him by Roy. But other than that they were untouched. How strange that Slade didn't do a thing to team Arrow. It was like he didn't notice them at all but focused on pre-island Oliver's family and love interests only. Seems so narrow minded when you think of it. How long was Slade keeping an eye on Oliver that he didn't realise the tripod effect team Arrow had.

Here's how I see it.  In that last flashback right before Oliver shot an arrow in Slade's eye, Slade made his promise to Oliver that he would kill everyone that Oliver loved, saying that Sara was already gone, and then specifically mentioning Thea, Moira and Laurel.  When Slade showed up in Starling City, he told Oliver that he always keeps his promise.  I think the mirakura made him crazy and put him in this fixed mindset that he would go after those three specific women.  When he forced Oliver to choose between Thea and Moira, I think Moira's gallantry and courage in offering herself to die earned her Slade's respect and, out of that respect/sacrifice, Slade did not touch Thea after that.  He then planned to target Laurel because he was still in that island mindset where he believed that she was Oliver's great love.  Therefore, Slade was blindly adhering to his promise to Oliver, ignoring the possibility that things might have changed in the years since he knew Oliver, and likely considered people like Diggle and Felicity just helpers to Oliver (like Slade had helpers) who would be destroyed along with Starling City.  It took Oliver singling out Felicity at the mansion for Slade to target Felicity.

Edited June 17, 2014 by tv echo

[Password]

What I like about Felicity is that she's not just the love interest?  She has an integral place on the team regardless of whether or not she and Oliver ever get together.  I hope the writers understand that and allow her to have a life outside of Oliver.

 

That's something I hope too. I was just watching scenes from s2 ep8 with Barry and Felicity when Oliver decided to be rude in how he "revealed" Barry's secrets. I miss the Felicity who called Oliver out on his stupidity. It's what seemed to make her so interesting and made their interaction fun. It amuses me to no end to see Oliver surprised when Felicity says "You think?" after Oliver says he overreacted. 

 

After the Sara debacle and even ep10 their relationship sort of changed. I can't place my finger on what exactly. But I really hope s3 brings wonderful things for Felicity because I want everything I can get on her past.

 

@tv echo I thought it was so strange but if Slade was that focused on Oliver of 6 years previously then I guess I can accept that reasoning. It even came as a surprise to me when the fake out happened. It's weird, that scene looked super staged until Oliver said "he took the wrong woman". Then it was like whoa wait what? So even there, I can see how Slade would get confused or think he had the wrong woman. Sigh really there are just questions I have in my head concerning the storyline.

Edited June 17, 2014 by ArrowLimbo

[catrox14]

 

I miss the Felicity who called Oliver out on his stupidity. It's what seemed to make her so interesting and made their interaction fun. It amuses me to no end to see Oliver surprised when Felicity says "You think?" after Oliver says he overreacted.

 

I don't agree that she no longer calls him on his stuff. She just put aside the snarky part of it during the last few episodes of s2 which made sense to me because things got pretty damn dark and serious as of Seeing Red straight through to Unthinkable. I think the writers left the snark to her interactions with other people rather than between Felicity and Oliver, which I thought was a good choice. It was too serious for her to be cracking wise or flippantly.  She flat out chewed him out in the Clock Tower when he had given up and she is the one that told him to make Slade out think himself. Once all the heat of battle is over, she can be cutesy and funny again, but IMO snark was not the order of the day in the last part of the season. Prior to all that happening she had her funny moments of a mocking and teasing Oliver.

Edited June 17, 2014 by catrox14

[Password]

I agree the snark had no place in the final few episodes, but I was talking about the 7 or so episodes where Oliver was making bad decisions left and right that would ordinarily be called out by both Felicity and Diggle. I missed Diggle, Felicity and team Arrow desperately and their collective snark.

Perhaps I'm being nostalgic for all the good times I remember but I hope they don't allow Oliver another downward spiral without a word from his team that otherwise call him out on his snot.

[Velocity23]

Well they were kind of pushed to the background after Heir to the Demon episode. Given a few lines each episode. 

[Password]

I hope they don't do it again.

[Velocity23]

They really need to find to balance it out.

[statsgirl]

I think having Diggle and Felicity sidelined for some episodes while the writers play with other storylines is going to be inevitable. They're not the greatest at plotting on this show. Hopefully the audience response it happening s2 is going to make them think a bit more about what does into an episode and what gets cut.  At least Diggle and Felicity will be getting some storylines of their own next season (hopefully) but I have to agree, the two of them snarking at Oliver is some of the best parts of the show.

 

likely considered people like Diggle and Felicity just helpers to Oliver (like Slade had helpers)

 

Unlike Oliver, Slade had helpers, not partners.  Blood barely knew anything about his plans and even Isabel, who knew about Oliver's secret identity, didn't know about Shado.  Slade being fixated only on Oliver's family, Laurel, Thea and Moira makes a lot of sense.

 

It would have knocked Slade for a loop, finding out he was so wrong about who Oliver loved, possibly giving Oliver a slight advantage. 

[Velocity23]

I don't mind if Diggle and Felicity aren't always in the center of the show. But in this season Felicity's story got sidelined (something they were promising since Comic Con), didn't even really take place this season, then she got reduced to one liners after and the promoted Felicity episode turned out not really Felicity centered. Diggle had his 2 episodes but was also reduced to the background. At least Diggle was shown to have a life outside the Arrow, with Felicity we got nothing. I really love those two so when the storyline get promised i get cranky when i see nothing come of it. 

[Password]

I found it easy to tune out Laurel at the beginning of s2 because she didn't seem to feature heavily enough to breach team Arrow time. But then I got the addiction (which I didn't mind) and the Sara and Oliver hook up, and the Lance drama, which took away from team Arrow and I got annoyed. I had two characters I wasn't particularly happy about (Sara was kick-ass but really the Oliver thing detracted from her character). I didn't know Felicity back story was promised at Comic Con. How frustrating that she and Diggle got that sidelined, Felicity in particular.

[Velocity23]

They were promoting even at the beginning of the season that we would get to meet Felicity's parents. so don't know what happened when they started to delaying it. The only explanation we got they are going for something bigger.

[Password]

How strange. I guess where Laurel's addiction/family drama arc was, Felicity's parents would have been introduced. They really did rebuild Laurel's character in front of our eyes...but has she really changed?

 

Regardless, I'm annoyed at the writers for making me sit through that when Felicity Smoak goodness could've been in place.

[Velocity23]

They were saying 13th episode so "Heir To Demon" all we got was a little info that her dad left her. 

[statsgirl]

There was a lot happening in s2, what with Sara, and the Lances, and Slade and Roy and then Thea.  I'd rather have more on Felicity and wait till s3 than have it rushed, now that I know she's really going to be in s3.  (I was worried for a while there with so little emphasis on her that she was going to be killed off.)

 

If there is a big storyline with Felicity's father, it makes sense to put it in the season where others will be dealing with father issues (Diggle and his baby, Thea and Malcolm, Oliver and his unknown child).

[Velocity23]

I understand that from logical point of view but that Lance melodrama was awful. And we know more about people who joined in season 2 than we know about Felicity. I just keep wondering if they do it again in season 3. I mean whats to stop them and start proping Laurel again. It was just something i was looking forward to and we got  nothing but a few lines. 

[Password]

Exactly. We're pretty much waiting patiently for a few lines from a character we love whilst Laurel, whom many dislike, gets a drug addiction arc. An arc which in the end, didn't make that much of an impression for me. Even Sara (whom appeared from mist) gets more screen time than a regular we like!

 

Hopefully s3 does Felicity justice because these bread crumbs are just a way to keep us wanting more.

[tv echo]

To clarify what I said previously, I think the mirakuru messed up Slade's head and he became fixated on keeping his promise to Oliver - the promise that specifically targeted Thea, Moira and Laurel.  He also only knew the Oliver of 5 years ago (still somewhat spoiled and self-absorbed) when Oliver hadn't been through his entire crucible yet.  Oliver still had another 3 years of Hong Kong and whatever else he experienced after shooting Slade and before returning to the island.  Oliver further evolved and changed in the year after he returned to Starling City.  The Oliver that Slade knew probably would have considered Diggle and Felicity his helpers rather than his partners.

 

I've liked the little scenes between Felicity and Diggle as well.  I'm thinking of that scene where Diggle is sitting guard in his car outside Felicity's apartment and she comes out in her pjs with a cup of coffee for him.  

 

In the second half of season 2, I feel like the EPs gave lines/scenes to Laurel that would've normally gone to Felicity or Diggle in an effort to integrate Laurel into the main story.  For example, having Laurel get someone to hack into a database to discover Blood's connection to Moira's death and thus being the one to tell Oliver of Blood's involvement with Slade (as well as having that cringe-inducing "I know you to your bones" scene), thereby making it necessary to bring in Laurel when Oliver wanted to surrender himself to Slade - thus insinuating Laurel into Team Arrow and having Laurel follow Oliver where there was the explosion, thus creating the scene where Laurel shoots Oliver's bow.  All contrived and unnecessary, when Felicity could've easily done the hacking - thereby removing Laurel from most of that episode.

Edited June 18, 2014 by tv echo

[Password]

I was watching the episode where Laurel and Oliver broke into some or other place to get a file. Felicity blacked out the cameras and a guard was able to bring them back on. I was like whaaaaat? Isn't Felicity a genius? Seemed like something she'd be able to handle.

 

 

he became fixated on keeping his promise to Oliver - the promise that specifically targeted Thea, Moira and Laurel.

 

@tv echo Oh I see now, and yes that makes perfect sense. Everyone else was peripheral to his promise. Also he saw Sara" die" so she wouldn't have been in his promise. Gosh that does make things clear now, he tore everything he cares about away from him (QC), destroy those who choose to follow him, corrupt those he loves (Thea and Laurel). Although the destroy those who choose to follow him is a bit up in the air. He killed Moira, but whom did he destroy? 

 

We were looking in the wrong place I guess.

Edited June 18, 2014 by ArrowLimbo

[Velocity23]

Everybody was made look stupid to let Laurel shine in that episode.

[statsgirl]

Everyone is made stupid around Laurel because if they weren't there would be very little for her to do on the show.

 

I was thinking about Alan Sepinwall's comments from his dream Emmy ballot:

 

 

Emily Bett Rickards from "Arrow," who was so appealing from her first appearance as nervous hacker Felicity Smoak that the show essentially reconfigured itself around her, turning a brooding solo hero story into a somewhat lighter series about a team of crimefighters where Felicity is the eyes, ears and brains. Rickards isn't asked to emote on the scale of somebody like Gunn or Baranski or Headey, but it's the perfect performance on the show she's on, and when she has to do something complicated (like, say, Felicity's reaction to the truth of Oliver's plan in the season 2 finale), she nails it.

Bolding is mine.  I know that the appearance of Felicity was what kept me watching the show, but it's an intriguing thought that they might have liked the character enough to reconfigure the show itself.

[Password]

I also noted that statement. It's very bold but it does make sense. The show turns into a dark drama without Felicity, but as soon as she reappears (the last few episodes) things are lighter and less bleak. Makes sense.

[wonderwall]

I've been venturing into all the Felicity hate on the internet (not a lot, but reddit and imdb is full of it), and a main issue people seem to be having with her character is that she's a 'mary-sue' and found her to become more annoying because they feel like the writers have been fan-servicing to the fandom. I found this to be quite interesting because it made me realize that not everyone watches the same show. 

 

What do you guys think of these comments? 

 

I feel as though that while felicity can tend to be a little flat in certain episodes where she's only there to give her one-liners (mostly in the back half of season 2), I think that the audience has had a chance to see her grow from that nerdy, sort of timid IT girl, to a badass woman who stood up to Slade and helped defeat him. This isn't something we've seen in many of the female characters on the show (except for Sara). We haven't seen Thea, Laurel, or Moira give up their lives in order to save the city. And what's amazing is that even though Felicity goes through all this, she manages to keep that levity, make scenes more fun, and less intense. She is one of the greatest contradictions the show has. 

 

While she may seem flat on an episode to episode basis, if you look at her overall arc (which isn't much), you can see how much of a well rounded character Felicity is. This is all because of EBRs portrayal of her. She gives Felicity a sense of vulnerability, quirkiness, and depth that we as the audience can see and connect to. Maybe the people who didn't connect to her quite as well see her as a Mary-sue? 

 

Also, I fully reject the fan-servicing notion. Obviously the writers felt as though they needed Felicity for bringing an edge to the show. She made the show dynamic instead of the monotonously gloomy one we saw in the first two episodes. The writers don't force Felicity into the plot like people think they do. Felicity is usually just there in the foundry whenever things happen... Why is she there? Because she's an integral part of the team. She might not get the screentime she deserves, but that doesn't mean Oliver and Digg don't need her. It would be weird if she weren't there because then Felicity wouldn't be doing her job. So I don't understand the whole 'shoe-horning' Felicity into the plot and the 'fan-servicing' argument...

 

IDK what do you guys think?

[Password]

Felicity is one of the most useful people on the show. Shoe horning makes no sense because without the technology and computer capability she brings Oliver's missions would be impossible. She looks out for the team, directs them, sets up diversions for authority. None of it seems shoe horned to me because she's there for the purpose of playing with the computers. And we've seen she's brilliant at it.

My only complaint is that her life revolves around team Arrow. But that will be addressed in s3. Even then, she's so important to keeping Oliver in line and believing in him that she made dear Laurel's speech of none effect. Absolutely Felicity is a fan favourite, but fan service makes no sense.

[tv echo]

I read somewhere (don't recall where) that there's a small rabid group of Laurel/KC fans who go about the Internet viciously attacking anyone who criticizes Laurel or KC, as well as viciously attacking Felicity because they feel she has usurped Laurel/KC.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Some of Felicity's critics keep insisting she's not needed because Oliver already has tech skills as shown in the pilot with the trick arrow and the bank account. They seem to cling to that one example. But the show has since portrayed Oliver as less tech savvy (I seem to remember a joke about the cloud and Felicity saying something like I don't tell you how to sharpen your arrows) and Diggle also is not (as shown in "Blast Radius" when he told Oliver computers weren't his thing. So the team definitely needs her specific skillset. Beyond that, Felicity does provide a glimmer of light in that gloomy lair with her humor. She also helps Oliver stay on mission. Like when he was being all broody about Slade, she was the one telling him about robberies, reminding him about their crime-fighting work.

 

We already know from MG's Paste interview that it wasn't just fan reaction that boosted Felicity's presence on the show. The writers themselves had a lot of fun with her and began giving the character more to do, even before the first episode featuring her aired. So when the notes from WB came in, MG said they were like "way ahead of you." 

[dtissagirl]

Some of Felicity's critics keep insisting she's not needed because Oliver already has tech skills as shown in the pilot with the trick arrow and the bank account. They seem to cling to that one example. But the show has since portrayed Oliver as less tech savvy (I seem to remember a joke about the cloud and Felicity saying something like I don't tell you how to sharpen your arrows) and Diggle also is not (as shown in "Blast Radius" when he told Oliver computers weren't his thing.

 

When they showed the pilot at SDCC, one of the things that was most criticized was Oliver's tech savvy-ness "after 5 years in a hellish island". Obviously we know now the island bit wasn't true, but it really did not make any sense for Oliver to have advanced hacker skills in S1, and I believe that's one of the big reasons they brought Felicity back after her first episode, and subsequently into into Team Arrow. I mean, they even made the point to show us how good at her job she was by setting up her story arc helping Walter.

 

So, how's that for fan-service when a character actually fits a narrative need? Hee. To misquote The Princess Bride, they keep using the words "fanservice" or "fan-pandering"... I don't think it means what they think it means. :)

[Lady Calypso]

Ha, Felicity is the Mary Sue one? Yeah, right.

 

I said this before on TwoP when there were comments of Sara and Felicity both being Mary Sues. I don't remember the exact wording, but I'll try to summarize what I said. People who say that characters like Felicity and Sara are Mary Sues are using the proper definition of the word wrong. Mary Sues are characters who do no wrong, who have people loving them and they are pretty much perfect and people idolize them in every way possible. But the main point of a Mary Sue is that they're essentially poorly developed characters. They really only have some traits that do not change. 

 

Felicity is far from being that. She has grown and evolved over the last two seasons. She is not perfect by any means; she cannot physically fight like Sara or Oliver or Diggle. She can't analyze blood like Sara can. Felicity's strong suit is in technology. She's good at it, for sure, and the others need her as they can't do it themselves. She also is prone to mistakes, though, like when the Clock King managed to get into her computers and crash them. She stands up to Oliver when he needs it and she is pretty honest in her opinions about others. Sure, she's been kidnapped but that's really because she's sacrificing herself to help the team and to help the city. It shows that even though she tries to be selfless, she's not good enough to save herself at the same time.

 

Yet she's still the same, bubbly, quirky tech girl we saw from season 1. She keeps the mood light and despite going through trauma after trauma, she doesn't falter under it. She feels regretful when she thinks she's the cause of Oliver's problems, like when Oliver had to make his first kill since Tommy's death. For once, she needed the pick-me-up speech; she didn't have to give it to others like she usually does. I think Felicity is very important to Team Arrow; without her, Oliver would be more of a douchebag, probably wouldn't have Diggle as his equal and he might actually be worse off. Diggle, Felicity and Oliver balance each other out. Without those three, Team Arrow wouldn't exist and everything would fall apart. 

 

I will say Sara isn't a Mary Sue either; she's fought hard to be able to physically fight and do some of the scientific stuff. She wasn't handed those traits; she's earned them, much like Felicity has.

 

Also, people misuse the word "fan"-pandering. There's two sides to it: a positive and a negative. Felicity is certainly a positive example for fan-pandering, but also the writers and producers loved her and wanted more of her before her first episode aired, so it's not really fan-pandering at all. I could stretch and say Felicity/Oliver MIGHT be fan-pandering, but they also have extreme chemistry so it would be a shame if they didn't use that to their advantage.

[icandigit]

Mary Sue's don't fix people's parking tickets. At that's just the one story we know about.

[Password]

I just read something where EBR said she thinks Oliver felt what he said was real. She was asked if Oliver meant the ILY. What does EBR mean?

[CabotCove]

 

 

I've been venturing into all the Felicity hate on the internet (not a lot, but reddit and imdb is full of it), and a main issue people seem to be having with her character is that she's a 'mary-sue' and found her to become more annoying because they feel like the writers have been fan-servicing to the fandom. I found this to be quite interesting because it made me realize that not everyone watches the same show.

What do you guys think of these comments?

 

Well considering the character started out very well loved in the fandom (still is), but with almost no hate (or even just criticism) from most of fandom. Something must have changed along the way for people to feel like this. 

[MsSchadenfreude]

No character is universally loved or hated.  Felicity has always had her detractors and haters.  And her character has had much more exposure this season than last.  Not everyone is going to like her or the way her story is going.  

Edited June 23, 2014 by MsSchadenfreude

[catrox14]

 

Well considering the character started out very well loved in the fandom (still is), but with almost no hate (or even just criticism) from most of fandom. Something must have changed along the way for people to feel like this.

 

What changed is that she has a better, more vibrant, more interesting dynamic with Oliver than Laurel. which we saw from the very first head-tilt of dubiousness.

 

As for her being a Mary Sue, nah. She makes mistakes. And she may or may not repeat said mistake.  She didnt' jump out of an airplane with a parachute. She was attached to Diggle. She was afraid the entire time.  She is well characterized, has an internal life IMO that comes out on the screen (even if we might not know specifics about her past) Her personality hasn't changed much at all. It's a consistent characterization by EBR. If anything Laurel is much akin to a Mary Sue than Felicity. 

Edited June 23, 2014 by catrox14

[pootlus]

No character is universally loved or hated.  Felicity has always had her detractors and haters.  And her character has had much more exposure this season than last.  Not everyone is going to like her or the way her story is going.

Exactly - I would be hugely surprised if any character, anywhere, was universally or almost universally adored (or loathed, for that matter).

That said I don't agree with the 'Mary Sue' diagnosis either. She seems pretty well-rounded, yet fallible to me. About the only thing that may ring true about the accusation is that characters who don't like her are almost invariably evil. I don't know what this says about Laurel (although Laurel treats just about everyone with disdain, so it's not like it's particularly personal against Felicity).

[Happy Harpy]

Exactly - I would be hugely surprised if any character, anywhere, was universally or almost universally adored (or loathed, for that matter).

That said I don't agree with the 'Mary Sue' diagnosis either. She seems pretty well-rounded, yet fallible to me. About the only thing that may ring true about the accusation is that characters who don't like her are almost invariably evil. I don't know what this says about Laurel (although Laurel treats just about everyone with disdain, so it's not like it's particularly personal against Felicity).

I think that Felicity even avoids this part of the definition, too, especially in her relationship with Moira.

A Mary Sue is always a victim of dislike, but loves everyone. And Felicity not only doesn't trust, but doesn't like Moira. And this doesn't come either out of a special super MS instinct, she had valid, concrete reasons to feel this way.

Moreover, Moira isn't simply evil, she's a complex character. She was an Ice Queen, and it seemed to me that she wasn't particularly friendly with her employees; she didn't make an exception for Felicity just because. So, Felicity is no special snowflake here.

Their confrontation was also complex. Moira was protecting her family; no matter the method she used, I don't think that anyone doubts she had good intentions. So for me, it wasn't good versus evil, but the confrontation of different POVs and different loyalties/values. I loved the way Felicity reacted, but others thought she shouldn't have confronted Moira or told Oliver because "it wasn't her place". The writing let imo the viewers make their own opinion, whereas the writing for a Mary-Sue doesn't allow this kind of leeway.

 

I'll add Felicity's non-relationship with Thea in the anti-Mary Sue column. I'd love for them to interact, but they didn't so far. If Felicity were a Mary Sue, imo, the writers would have come up with a half-baked, forced plot to have Felicity intervene in Thea's life, as her mentor or sudden best friend (oops...this rings a bell).

 

Felicity is a good guy, and a genuinely nice and warm person, so it's kind of logical that her enemies/people who don't like her are not good/not nice. Hence, it's for me very telling in terms of not being a Mary-Sue that in spite of this personality prone imo to attract sympathy, neither of the most important women in Oliver's life, his mother and his sister, developped out of the blue a friendly/loving relationship with  Felicity or sang her praises. 

[Danny Franks]

The thing with Felicity is, most of the people we've seen like her are guys. Oliver, Diggle, Walter, Lance and Barry all think she's great, and that's a sensibility that's shared by the actors and the writers, as far as I can tell. It's also dead on, accurate. Felicity Smoak is the type of girl that guys do like. A lot. She's fun, witty, engaging, easily flustered, and she's hot. There's an air of vulnerability, but combined with intelligence and competence. I speak for myself, but also (I think) for most guys, when I say, we like these qualities.

 

And the two women we've seen like her are Sara and Nyssa, who both share a key interest with the majority of guys. I don't see why Felicity would be any less attractive to them than she is to the men on the show. Not necessarily in a romantic sense, but just a recognition that this is someone that is appealing and engaging.

 

Who doesn't like her? Laurel isn't keen, Moira thought she was a meddler, Isabel was annoyed by her. Again, this is a generalisation, but I've seen plenty of girls who are similar to Felicity struggle to be popular with other girls, perhaps for the very reason that they are popular with guys. A competitiveness and envy that might be unconscious, a resentment and a feeling that there must be something artificial about her personality, designed to entice guys. Felicity might not have had a whole lot of success in the romance department, but until I learn otherwise, I'd have to say it's been more down to her either not being interested, or not realising guys were interested. I struggle to believe she's just not had anyone who wanted her, and I imagine that she's had plenty of male friends. Probably more male friends than female, now I think about it.

 

This is really just a train of thought about character archetypes, and where I think Felicity fits into that spectrum.

[Password]

If anything Moira, Laurel and Isabel probably saw Felicity as a threat of some kind. They all see the attention Oliver pays her (and for some reason people want his attention) so they see her as someone who should be squashed because of this association.

[tv echo]

Felicity might not have had a whole lot of success in the romance department, but until I learn otherwise, I'd have to say it's been more down to her either not being interested, or not realising guys were interested.

I can see a lot of guys being interested in Felicity and Felicity being oblivious to that interest.  I just picture some poor guy working in the IT department at QC making a point to pass by Felicity's office every day to say 'hi'.  Then just when he works up the nerve to ask her out, she gets transferred to the corporate offices to become Oliver's executive assistant.

[statsgirl]

Mary Sue's don't screw up.  Felicity does screw up band then she tries really hard to fix it, which is another reason why the audience likes her.

Moreover, Moira isn't simply evil, she's a complex character. She was an Ice Queen, and it seemed to me that she wasn't particularly friendly with her employees; she didn't make an exception for Felicity just because. So, Felicity is no special snowflake here.

 

Good point.  If Felicity were a Mary Sue or a special snowflake, Moira would have liked her for how good she is to Oliver.  But Moira didn't; Felicity threatened Moira's relationship with both her children and as a threat she had to be dealt with.

 

Laurel doesn't have time for her but Laurel doesn't have time for anyone who could come between her and Oliver.

 

Isabel hated her smug face but Isabel probably projected all over Felicity -- she was the confidante of the CEO of QC, as Isabel herself had been with Robert; she stood between Isabel having unlimited access to and possibly influence over Oliver; and she was probably much more popular among QC employees than Isabel herself was.  Maybe Felicity even had a better academic degree and Isabel didn't like anyone being ahead of her.

Sara likes her, Nyssa respects her and Thea doesn't seem to have any issues with her.  I think Lyla would get along with her very well.

 

I can see Felicity being popular with guys but more in a 'best friends'  kind of way than in a 'really hot girl other guys will be jealous I'm dating' because she has no wiles and doesn't flirt, and also because she said in Tremors that now that there's finally been a guy interested in her, he ends up in a coma, that's just her luck.

 

I think that's another reason she's popular with the female audience as well as the male, because she's a geek (as I suppose many of the viewers of this show are) and a nice person and not going to be the prom queen, like many of us watching her, and as we root for her to get the hot guy, it's a bit of living vicariously.

[Danny Franks]

 

 

I can see Felicity being popular with guys but more in a 'best friends'  kind of way than in a 'really hot girl other guys will be jealous I'm dating' because she has no wiles and doesn't flirt, and also because she said in Tremors that now that there's finally been a guy interested in her, he ends up in a coma, that's just her luck.

 

I think that's where it might come down to a difference in perceptions between men and women. I simply can't believe that she wouldn't have guys falling all over her, because she makes such a strong, positive impression that I don't think she even needs to know how to flirt. Look at Oliver, he was smiling within seconds of meeting her, and I was smiling right along with him. Same goes for Diggle. And even Lance, who met her by arresting her, took to her in no time at all. To me, she seems like a girl who perhaps genuinely doesn't realise when guys might be interested, because of her lack of wiles and perhaps because of the inferiority complex that has been hinted at. So, as tv echo suggested, I could easily see there being guys at QC or elsewhere who have big crushes on her, but just never summon up the courage to ask her out, and she never even realises they're smitten. Or perhaps this is just a case of EBR being too charismatic and engaging for the role as envisioned. Not that I'm complaining, if that is the case.

 

I think that's another reason she's popular with the female audience as well as the male, because she's a geek (as I suppose many of the viewers of this show are) and a nice person and not going to be the prom queen, like many of us watching her, and as we root for her to get the hot guy, it's a bit of living vicariously.

 

 

 

Definitely. I think that's the core of her appeal to the female audience. I think she's a character that a lot of women and girls can identify with quite strongly, and that she has a lot of qualities that many women would like to think they share. That's the disconnect between women in the show, and women watching the show, I think. The alpha females, Moira, Isabel and Laurel (I guess she's an alpha. She was probably head of her sorority or whatever), seem to look down on Felicity. And while they do have valid reasons, I think they'd be less than friendly under any circumstances.

 

Of course, I'm just overthinking it, and I doubt the writers ever stopped to wonder why all the men on the show are nuts about her, and some of the women are distinctly iffy on her. It just fits the narrative.

[statsgirl]

 

To me, she seems like a girl who perhaps genuinely doesn't realise when guys might be interested, because of her lack of wiles and perhaps because of the inferiority complex that has been hinted at.

I see her as someone who gets along well with guys because she's non-threatening and easy to be with.  Felicity's the girl the quarterback talks to when he's got women problems rather than asking her out herself so she doesn't see herself as someone who guys might be interested in other than as a friend. And because of the type of guys who are interested in her are geeky and shy (like Barry) she's less likely to be asked out because they are too shy.

 

 

The alpha females, Moira, Isabel and Laurel (I guess she's an alpha. She was probably head of her sorority or whatever), seem to look down on Felicity. And while they do have valid reasons, I think they'd be less than friendly under any circumstances.

I think Laurel and Isabel are more likely to be the type of woman that other women don't like.   I can see both of them as head of the sorority or business club respectively, resenting any woman who would challenge them.  Felicity having the respect of Oliver and Quentin would make her an instant target.

 

With Moira, I think it was more plot contrivance than anything else the first two times (in Walter's hospital room and at QC).  About the paternity, it was Moira defending what's  hers.   Since Moira liked Laurel, even while Oliver was cheating on her, I can't think of any reason why she wouldn't like Felicity. Laurel didn't come from money either. 

 

EBR said in an interview that it was interesting playing Felicity when Sara was sleeping with Oliver because while Felicity liked Oliver herself, she also liked Sara and wanted her friends to be happy.

[catrox14]

I think Felicity remains popular because IMO she's quite "real" as fictional characters go.  EBR is believable as this young geeky tech woman. She doesn't have pretense. She is who she is and I, for one, respect that characterization. She's not floating on the wind altering herself to make others happy. She's tried to filter her words more which is character growth, not Mary Sue behavior.

 

I know I wasn't happy with her new wardrobe well two of the dresses in particular and I was afraid it would change her personality, but it didn't. She didn't suddenly start walking around like she was flauting her new style or trying to be more sexy. The clothes do not make the woman in this case.  She was still awkward and clomped around in her high heels like she was still wearing flats, which I found hilarious. .  She told Oliver that this was a shit deal to be demoted with her MIT degree and she made it clear she didn't like doing it and she wasn't going to make him coffee. 

 

That is good writing but also a good actor will force that hand too. I give all the credit to EBR for grabbing onto one moment and running with it.  She didn't wait for the writers to tell her what to do with Felicity. She made interesting choices right out of the gate and she made it impossible for TPTB to NOT notice her work. That's what a good actor does even when the motivation isn't there.  EBR finds the Felicity in everything she does. 

 

I was a little worried when EBR had to give the big monologue motivational speech to Ollie that she might come across as to cutesy or wouldn't have the gravitas necessary. I was expecting a quiet beginning to become a mumbled plea or that it would ramp up into a really "big" and overwrought with emotion thing.  But EBR did something really interesting. She underplayed it in just the right way. She was angry and frustrated with Oliver. She was stern with him. But she never veered into "overly dramatic" which I really appreciated. I could still see the Felicity in the anger and her attempts to kick him in the ass and get him moving again. 

 

All of that is to say, that consistent characterization by the actor will mask a lot of bad writing. And that's why this viewer still likes Felicity.  I feel like I know her already and that's all due to EBR being a smart actor.

[doesntworkonwood]

I was talking to my sister, and she's not the biggest fan of Arrow. She doesn't like any of the characters at all, except for Felicity. We both agreed that Felicity is a really good role model, and she's really easy for the female fans of this show to identify with. 

 

I mean, the show isn't some really highbrow art documentary, but I think it's safe to say that it is watched by a lot of intelligent women, specifically nerdy women. Intelligent women will (most of the time) identify with other intelligent women, that's just how it works. I myself have an interest in maths, and one of the reasons I like Felicity is because of her interest in maths and computing.

 

That said, it's not just her obvious characteristics that make her such a role model. We've seen her as a kind person, we've seen her as a loyal person. She's brave, we've seen her conquer some fears. These are all good qualities, and qualities that a lot of people would like to see in themselves. 

 

Of course, this isn't to say that people who don't like Felicity aren't intelligent, or don't want to be good people. You don't like a character, you don't like a character. But for the people who do like her, I certainly think that her 'everywoman' persona certainly helped. 

[dtissagirl]

I immediately connected with Felicity on a superficial level -- nerdy, working with computers, with a knack for funky nail polish and bright lipstick. But it could have stopped there if EBR hadn't infused her with so much warmth, and vulnerability from the get go.

All of these things EBR put into her acting makes Felicity a three-dimensional character even when we still don't know so much about Felicity's life outside of the Arrowcave. For example, the way she talks so fast -- Felicity's brain is analytical, and so ahead of everyone else that it's like she HAS to speak that quickly to keep up with her train of thought at all times. And the way EBR makes Felicity hug herself when she has to say something difficult, or is feeling vulnerable, like she is her own support system. When I step back and look at her performance, I realize it's easy to connect emotionally with Felicity because EBR has put real effort into the role.

Edited June 23, 2014 by dancingnancy

[doesntworkonwood]

Oh, totally. The producers really struck a gold mine with EBR. She may not get the best scenes or lines, and she may not be technically the best actor on the show, but she brings so much to each of her scenes. Felicity Smoak would not be Felicity Smoak if EBR hadn't played her. 

 

I think that EBR really does understand Felicity though. It's so obvious from her interviews how much she cares for and how deeply she considers Felicity. It's wonderful to see such a connect between her and her character. 

[statsgirl]

At Walker Stalker Con, EBR said that she got the script for Arrow, she'd never heard of the show but she read Felicity's part and thought "wow, she's really smart, she's talking about Shakespeare" and really wanted the part and decided irrespective of the rest of the show, she was going to go all out on that character. (She added that she was going to see a production of Taming of the Shrew (I think) later that day.)  Stephen Amell said in a different interview that when Oliver smiled at Felicity in that first scene, it was him breaking character.

 

 

That is good writing but also a good actor will force that hand too. I give all the credit to EBR for grabbing onto one moment and running with it.  She didn't wait for the writers to tell her what to do with Felicity. She made interesting choices right out of the gate and she made it impossible for TPTB to NOT notice her work. That's what a good actor does even when the motivation isn't there.  EBR finds the Felicity in everything she does.

And that's how you make your character indispensable to the show.

[BkWurm1]

a main issue people seem to be having with her character is that she's a 'mary-sue' and found her to become more annoying because they feel like the writers have been fan-servicing to the fandom

 

 

I think Felicity might get the label of Mary Sue or fan servicing because she was not in the Green Arrow comics so someone might feel that any insertion of her character is unwarranted and any time the show shows her usefulness to the team (smart and tech savy) her skills are dismissed as forced since she shouldn't be there anyway. 

I think it's kind of like how I can watch an episode with Laurel and see how easy it would be to give her purpose in the show to other characters and therefore I can't see the advantage of Laurel and do often view scenes where she might be allowed to shine as the writers just giving unearned gifts to Laurel.

I do it with Laurel though because I think they have a failed character while I think Felicity does her job on the show remarkably well.  She isn't always front and center and all hacking and computer stuff on TV is a joke but it's an accepted bit of truth stretching so I wouldn't label it Mary Sue like. 

I used to run into the complaint when watching Smallville that by allowing Chloe to be smart, it forced Clark to be dumb.  (I think he earned the nickname Big Dumb Alien all on his own)  I have also had a similar sentiment expressed about Oliver and Felicity but I don't think that's fair since I think Oliver's strengths do shine through and that Oliver is shown to be plenty smart on his own but usually in a different way than Felicity.

I think that Felicity nicely compliments Oliver.  He's all about the physical power and she's about harnessing the tech power.  So she comes up with information and connects to some of the emotions that Oliver has lost like faith and hope and Oliver comes up with strategy and survives on sheer endurance.  I see nothing weak about their partnership but if someone operated with the notion that Felicity is a tacked on character that doesn't belong, then I could understand why there could be a desire to see Oliver do it all on his own. 

it made me realize that not everyone watches the same show.

 

This.

People come to stories with their own expectations and hopes.  I love teams be them duos, trios or more, families, friends, co-workers, lovers - I'll take them all.  I want my action mixed with emotion and characters that are strong in other ways.  My brother would hate the time wasted on the "unimportant stuff" since he's not interested in exploring relationships and how they drive stories and he's probably not alone. 

[dtissagirl]

I think Felicity might get the label of Mary Sue or fan servicing because she was not in the Green Arrow comics so someone might feel that any insertion of her character is unwarranted and any time the show shows her usefulness to the team (smart and tech savy) her skills are dismissed as forced since she shouldn't be there anyway. 

 

I've seen this exact reaction from both comic purists, and Laurel fans who see Felicity as a threat to Laurel/Oliver. And I just find it a leeeetle bit double-standarded. By these paramaters, Felicity and Diggle have the same narrative stance -- both weren't in the Green Arrow comics, both serve the same purpose of complementing Oliver's skills in their vigilantism [and they both help Oliver be a better person while at it], and both pose a threat to Laurel because they both emotionally support Oliver in ways Laurel has failed to. But have you ever found an Arrow fan who doesn't like Diggle? Just writing this sentence made me laugh, because it IS ludicrous. Everybody loves Diggle! So Felicity gets labeled Mary Sue by her detractors, when the overall character functions are pretty much the same for both Felicity and Diggle. And you'll never find anyone calling Diggle a Mary Sue.

 

I have a friend who doesn't like Felicity because she finds her too quirky, and gets too much secondhand embarrassment from the Freudian slips, enough to make her uncomfortable while watching. My friend also thinks Felicity is sometimes portrayed as a teenager amidst the rest of the adults. I find these all to be valid reasons for someone to not like Felicity. I'm not too fond of the embarrassing stuff she says either, but it doesn't bother me as much as it does my friend. I don't agree, but I can see how someone looks at Felicity crushing on Oliver and thinks "teenager". But none of this translates into Mary Sue territory, quite the contrary. My friend is annoyed by things she sees as Felicity's faults. Mary Sues don't have any of those.

[tv echo]

... I think Oliver's strengths do shine through and that Oliver is shown to be plenty smart on his own but usually in a different way than Felicity.

A perfect example is "Unthinkable". Felicity got Oliver thinking with her "let him [slade] outsmart you" comment, but Oliver was the one who came up with the idea of using Felicity as bait to get close enough to Slade to inject him with the mirakuru. He also had the guts to do the unthinkable in order to save the city. If Oliver was so dumb, then Diggle would not be letting him be the leader of Team Arrow and neither he nor Felicity would ally with him.

 

I don't think Felicity is a Mary Sue.  As others have mentioned, she is not liked by everyone and she is not perfect at all.  She sometimes says things that are unworthy (like her Fantasy Island comment). I also don't see her "crush" on Oliver as teenager-like.  Men and women of all ages can have "crushes" - look at all the celebrity worship that goes on in today's culture.  It's how or if you act that matters.

Edited June 24, 2014 by tv echo

[wingster55]

I don't agree that Felicity is a Mary Sue..but she does get moments that aren't earned or are pure fan-service imo. I still don't see why she was the one to put on the mask, or her "please save Oliver" comment (when Moira and Thea were in more danger), her speech after Diggle conveniently left (also why did he give them a moment alone in the finale..why did they need one?)