Last Tango In Halifax - General Discussion

[Quilt Fairy]

Why would Celia be upset about Alan having an affair during his first marriage over 30(?) years ago? It's not as though Alan cheated on her (Celia).

This is pure speculation on my part, but perhaps her first husband's constant unfaithfulness has made her sensitive to the subject.

[Milz]

This is pure speculation on my part, but perhaps her first husband's constant unfaithfulness has made her sensitive to the subject.

 

What a cow.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Milz

[joelene]

What a cow.

Lol, that isn't what she's being horrible about. That's perfectly understandable (to a point). She's being a cow in her behaviour towards Caroline and Caroline's wedding.

[bybrandy]

No. He stands for the whole confrontation scene with Gillian, as well. He said in an interview at the time of filming he couldn't go from sitting to standing so whenever he is going to sit they cut and it became funny.

[Quilt Fairy]

He said in an interview at the time of filming he couldn't go from sitting to standing

Yeah, he torn both his quads, so a transition between sitting and standing would be extremely difficult.

[Starchild]

I don't know what Alan sees in Celia, I really don't.

 

As for Gary, I don't foresee anything sinister. I think he's being brought in as a contrast to Gillian. Alan's son is a successful go-getter, and his daughter is a hapless screw-up. I can see Alan spending increasing time with Gary, just to get to know him, but getting grief from Gillian who thinks he is starting to love Gary more. She may even accuse him of being swayed by the money, since they made such a big deal in this episode of showing how impressed he was by that.

 

This family just can't have nice things.

 

But seriously, Alan, dump this cow.

[Anothermi]

Was the song Kate played as Celia walked down the aisle "The Queen of Sheba?" I can't remember the title of the music that Celia wanted, but whenever she mentioned it, I didn't know it. However, what Kate played was very familiar.

 

I love the title of that song - and I especially loved the context in which it was brought up by Celia in the first place.  Very cheeky of her.

 

Re: the bold bit... Wikipedia states it was featured in "the London Olympics".  It doesn't state where (as in Opening Ceremonies, or advertisements or such) but that may be why it sounds familiar?

Edited January 10, 2015 by Anothermi

[Anothermi]

Celia certainly was a disappointment this episode. I kept having flashbacks to her characterization of her sister, Muriel, from S2. I wonder if she wasn't projecting her own need to make everything about her onto her sister?

She has certainly invested her whole identity in being "the woman wronged". She couldn't even find the fact that Allan was attracted to Mary because he saw Celia in her as confirmation that she, Celia, was always special to him. She reacted as though he had cheated on HER!

I liked that Gary's wife appeared to find his self promotion a bit wearing. I wonder if the "sinister" side of him might end up being insecurity... Always having to prove himself? His history of how he started his business - and her having to point out her role in coming up with the idea- seems to have happened before. Actually, it seemed like a very familiar married couple dynamic, so I don't find it all that sinister, but I did feel he was trying a bit too hard to impress.

[Anothermi]

I'm sad that they changed actors for Caroline's oldest son, William. I'd grown quite fond of the other actor's pointy, slightly ascetic face. Now he's just another ginger haired guy.

[ciprus]

Well, I suppose Kate is dead then, if Caroline's cry is any indication.

 

Celia is such a fucking bitch. Seriously. She hurt her daughter deliberately and than bitches that Caroline isn't talking to her one day after the fact.

 

William (don't like the actor change though) and Alan are the only decent persons on this show, now that Kate is dead. Alan deserves so much better than Celia. I honestly don't get what he sees in her anymore, she's so hateful and judgy a lot of the time.

 

Gillian should absolutely stop drinking. She's such a mess and she should absolutely NOT marry Robbie. It's the worst idea. Glad she dismissed John too, not that I think it will last. He's like a bad smell you just can't get rid of, with both Gillian and Caroline.

[AlwaysWatching]

Wow. I was staying completely unspoiled because I don't know when LTiH is airing in the U.S..  This was a spoiler on another site that I just couldn't pass up. I knew what it was going to be without reading one word. I can't begin to tell you how much I loved this show.  Never in a million years did I think they would go the " let's kill off the gay character so we can get some juicy angst ridden parts for everybody else".  Chicago Fire did this and as soon as I knew who the character was who was being "sacrificed", I didn't watch five more minutes. I  had watched CF from the beginning and didn't even find that character all that interesting. At some point in your TV watching life, you have to say enough is enough.  I can accept the loss on POI because of outside circumstances.  I'll keep watching that show for Root.

 

The only thing I can think of that could save this show for me now, (that's if the death is real as it appears to be) is if they somehow give Caroline a new girlfriend.  It can be in the future, obviously, you need time to grieve a hell of a lot. But....someone better start dropping hints that gay love is still the future for Caroline. Gads, if they have her be BabyMama.... I am so outta here.  Guess I'm going to have to start reading what are spoiler recaps for me and see if this show is going to be worth watching when it does hit the States.

 

P. S.  If they had done this as more of a season finale and allowed a time jump to the next season, it might have been easier to understand.  What were they...one episode in? Marriage..boom..death.  That really is getting to be a very old, tired storyline. Straight or gay.

Edited January 13, 2015 by AlwaysWatching

[bybrandy]

I would have very much liked to have watched Caroline and Lawrence come around to the family as it gelled.   I would have way, way, way preferred that to this.  However. I assume that Caroline in season four will move on with another woman.  I mean none of these ladies have been single for long.   

You said you were out if Caroline became baby mama.  What do you want to happen to Kate's child?

[Badger]

Rupert Graves was also in the 2nd episode of "The Crimson Field" last year.

 

Ann Reid played Mrs. Thackeray the cook in the reboot of "Upstairs Downstairs a few years ago.  Sarah Lancashire was also in a couple of episodes playing a potential love interest for Mr. Pritchard the butler; it ended very badly though.  She is completely unrecognizable which is why I didn't realize it was her.

[Starchild]

I knew there was going to be trouble when Caroline stated how happy she was. Man, no one can be happy on this show for more than 5 minutes, literally.

[albaniantv]

Nicola Walker also does a lot of theater--I saw her a few months back at Elmwood Theater in Berkeley, live transmission of play in London, The Curious Incident of the Dog in the NIght-Time. She played the mother of the main character and was terrific.

 

Happy Valley grabbed me by the throat, but, after acclimating to its pace and powerfully drawn characters, I took a breath or two and got hooked.

[DropTheSoap]

I had a bad feeling when Kate took the car.I didn't want to have a bad feeling. The pre-wedding snuggle and bad poetry were beyond cute. Then the ending. Oh Sally Wainwright! What are you doing to me?

[Starchild]

Never mind what Sally is doing to us. What is Gillian doing to herself? Seriously, did her mother drink during her pregnancy? Did Alan drop her on her head as a baby? This woman has no impulse control at all.

[LanceyH]

My wife and I love this show, and hope it turns up on Netflix soon!

[maraleia]

 

Caroline is overwhelmed at the prospect of looking after the new baby, until a stranger walks into her life who may be the answer to her prayers. Raff is delighted at the news that his mum and uncle are getting married.

 

[ciprus]

Well, that was absolutely heartbreaking. I was spoiled, so I knew pretty much what to expect, but it was very sad anyway.

 

I don't like that Kate died in the least, I think it was cheap storytelling and a bit of a stunt. But the way Sarah Lancashire is playing Caroline is absolutely brilliant. I can't believe I've only ever seen her in this and Happy Valley!

 

Celia got away with her betrayal from the last episode, I don't like it. She deserves some comeuppance. I hope it's coming. Lawrence is such a brat and should be sent to live with Judith Off Screen. Or get a well deserved smack down, himself.

 

I don't really understand why Gillian wants to marry Robbie. She keeps saying she likes him. But does she love him, really? I wish she'd take Caroline's (and her own) advice and just leave it. I don't understand how she'll be able to live with the secret of Eddie's murder hanging over them.

 

Gary is scary.

[maraleia]

I'm so enraged...spoilers ahead.

http://www.divamag.co.uk/category/arts-entertainment/last-tango-writer-why-i-killed-off-lesbian-character.aspx#.VLwtoFUeybI.facebook

http://www.afterellen.com/tv/410061-last-tango-halifax-writer-sally-wainwright-explains-kates-death

[AlwaysWatching]

Thanks for posting this, maraleia. I'm too pissed about SW reason, which I don't believe btw...I think she is so taken with SL that she wants her to get another BAFTA or something. It's all about SL. I can understand that because we all are taken with Sarah. And for dramatic purposes it is true that nothing beats a truly unexpected death. Oh well. Now I can leave the not so friendly world of LTiH. Afterellen.com did have a great  response to this article.

Edited January 19, 2015 by AlwaysWatching

[bybrandy]

I don't get what they are doing with Lawrence. I know I'm supposed to hate him but I keep wondering when somebody is going to parent that boy. We see Caroline having conversations with everybody but him in this ep. Most disturbingly when she tells William that Flora is his sister. And that is nice but Lawrence is the one that desperately needs that talk.

Sally Wainwright said in an interview that she needed to kill Kate because there was no other way to reconcile Celia and Caroline. Ouch. If my mom boycotted my wedding and I was angry and hurting for 12 of my 18 hour marriage, that I would never get over that, ever.

[maraleia]

 

John has an unexpected proposal for Caroline, but she soon has greater things to worry about when she receives a phone call to say the police have baby Flora and her nanny Holly is in the cells. Gary's attempts to ingratiate himself into the family become tiring, and while Alan tries to distance himself from his son, Gillian is less than impressed when her half-brother offers to pay for her wedding.

 

[Starchild]

Sally Wainwright said in an interview that she needed to kill Kate because there was no other way to reconcile Celia and Caroline.

What!? Seriously? Wainwright can't be that bad a writer, so is Celia really that unredeemable a character?

[Quilt Fairy]

Link to the Sally Wainwright interview:

 

http://www.divamag.co.uk/category/arts-entertainment/last-tango-writer-why-i-killed-off-lesbian-character.aspx#.VLwtoFUeybI.facebook

[Starchild]

Wainright: "The narrative was that Caroline and Celia had fallen out so badly with Celia not going to the wedding. They weren't going to speak to each other ever again. Narratively, nothing can ever bring this mother and daughter back together again."

If Wainwright really believes that there was no way they'd speak to each other again without this tragedy, then she was just looking for a shortcut. Plenty of people in real life eventually reconcile after incidents like this. She just didn't want to take the time to tell that story.

 

Based on the article's comments, a lot of the audience feel the same way. Cop-out.

[albaniantv]

Always Watching--

I came on here to say the exact same thing, that Wainwright made up her narrative justification; she simply wrote what she thought would let Lancashire present a peacock array of emotional reactions. Nothing against Sarah Lancashire (perhaps the Brit corollary to Meryl Streep), but everything against writer "Velveeta" Wainwright who gave us the ploughman's lunch version of a plot development.

[AlwaysWatching]

I really do think that was Wainwright's thinking. And she certainly isn't the first writer to do this. I'm keeping everything behind a "spoiler" tag now because I really messed up on the third episode thread. I guess after so long, you can no longer edit your post. I still have a post on there that I wish I could delete. Missed it the first time around. Too much of a minefield on shows that don't air for everyone at the same time. I was extremely upset and I spoiled things for people. Honestly, I never do that. You might want to put your post behind the spoiler tag, But I am certainly not calling you out on it. Just friendly advise. :-)

[shandy]

I've been spoilt by a guardian article. What a friggin disaster! I get this is a dramedy, but even when Gillian was having a torrid time in season 2 we knew there was always redemption. Death is so final it has made me really unhappy that they do this on their wedding day. The writer can do whatever she wants of course, but the audience don't have to go with her.

Edited January 25, 2015 by shandy

[joelene]

Wow. Terrible reason.

[maraleia]

 

It's the day of Gillian and Robbie's wedding, and as all the guests begin to arrive at the venue, the bride suffers a serious case of cold feet. Caroline tries to get to the bottom of her stepsister's reluctance - and it isn't long before she admits the reasons for not wanting such a big ceremony. Meanwhile, with Celia's encouragement, Alan takes the first step toward forgiving Gary.

 

[ciprus]

The quiet, understated scene with Gillian and Caroline peeling potatoes and talking was exactly what made me fall in love with this show. Great dialogue from a stellar cast. No OTT dramatics. It was almost back to it's old form for a moment, there. Those two together make the most enjoyable scenes, they can elevate the most basic material.

 

Is it just me or is Derek Jacobi getting less and less to do on the show? I felt like he was just sitting by Celia, nodding his head for the entire episode. Anne Reid is really glowing, though. Loved the scene in the Police Station where she was babbling on and on. She's a very natural actress.

 

Caroline's storyline continues to be depressing, albeit perfectly acted by Sarah Lancashire. I feel like they really lost the plot when they killed off Kate and the sadness of the storyline is really affecting my enjoyment of the show negatively. I'm glad Caroline seems to be bonding with Flora, even though it's a bit of a slow process. I'm not thrilled with the addition of Greg to the family. "He really loves the sound of his own voice" is on point.

 

John is such a sad-sack. It's over with Judith, Gillian doesn't want him so now he goes begging for Caroline to take him back? Smooth. Also, I don't know what that last scene was about, showing us that John didn't leave Caroline for Judith - Caroline threw him out after finding out he cheated. (Too much retcon for me.) Am I supposed to feel like John was handed a bad deal or something? He's still as much of an ass as ever. Still, Caroline yelling at John is just about my favorite thing on LTiH, so I don't mind his presence too much. She had some spectacular insults for him in this episode.

 

Why is Gillian flirting with some old fling? Are we not supposed to root for her and Robbie? Her storyline confuses me so much this series.

 

Gary continues to be scary. And rather pointless.

[bybrandy]

I agree with almost all of this. The Gillian/Caroline scene why I still love this show. But the killing of Kate really puts a damper on the whole show for me.

And I don't know what story they are telling with Greg. But right now I'm skeptical.

I'm more willing to see where this goes with Gary but only cause I like Rupert Graves.

[ciprus]

I'm sad to say this episode was the worst of the entire run of Last Tango. Not much else to say, really.

[joelene]

Gonna have to agree. It was hard to stay engaged.

Alan was uncharacteristically pig headed, as pointed out by Celia. He had reason to be cross but it went a bit overboard and just made me think his behaviour was meant to be a distraction from how awful Celia has been.

When season 2 ended I couldn't wait for a new series. Now, if this is the end, I'm totally okay with it.

[AlwaysWatching]

http://www.digitalspy.com/british-tv/news/a625897/last-tango-in-halifax-to-return-for-fourth-series.html

 

hmmm...interesting

[Valny]

Not going to read those spoilers....not going to read those spoilers. I actually was spoiled about something that happens in S3 already(so maaaad!), so I was pissed off about that when I saw the title text of the article.

 

Does anyone know if there is an official US airdate for the third season? 

My sister was visiting and I introduced her to the series, so we got through the two seasons on Netflix in about a week.  It was fun rewatching it again, and she really enjoyed it... so now I really want to see S3!!!   I've made her a fan too.

[AlwaysWatching]

S3 starts June 28th on PBS.

[Valny]

S3 starts June 28th on PBS.

Oh thank you for that info AlwaysWatching! I've was just trying to find out when S3 would air on PBS and getting very annoyed at coming up empty.

[AlwaysWatching]

Your welcome Valny. I stumbled on the info while reading Google news. ;-)

[stormy]

Good to know. I was hoping it was coming back soon.

[whatsatool]

June 28.

[Quilt Fairy]

I was spoiled about the dramatic event of S3 which wasn't hard if you glanced any of the British newspapers. I have to say I'm not looking forward to this season at all. I almost wish they had just left us with that beautiful wedding reception in the finale of S2. That would have been a great way to go out.

[Quilt Fairy]

I'm in the US so we haven't seen S3 yet. However, it was almost impossible not to be spoiled about Kate's death, which upset me quite a bit. But other than that, I was a good girl and I haven't read any of the S3 episode threads (which don't seem to have a lot of posts in them, hmmmm...). Anyhow, for those of you in the UK and wherever else S3 has aired, here's my question: Was it worth it? Did Sally Wainwright convince you by the end of the season that she'd been right in killing off Kate?  Were there enough other high points in the season that made it worthwhile to watch anyway? Because I know I'm going to watch, but I'm dreading it.

[joelene]

I'd definitely prefer it if they hadn't killed Kate. The dramatics wasn't worth it IMO (although a lot of it was still good drama). The only other thing I remember greatly from the season is Celia being truly vile and I just couldn't stand her and wished it would have been her dead instead. Happy viewing! :-)

[Valny]

I was spoiled about the dramatic event of S3 which wasn't hard if you glanced any of the British newspapers. I have to say I'm not looking forward to this season at all. I almost wish they had just left us with that beautiful wedding reception in the finale of S2. That would have been a great way to go out.

I was spoiled too, (if it's the same thing I saw) and I was not happy either. But I don't know the specifics, so at least that's something.  However, I'm still very really looking forward to seeing S3. It's been too long a wait.

26 more days!

 

Edited June 3, 2015 by CuriousParker
Removed Duplicate Quote

[SonofaBiscuit]

The only other thing I remember greatly from the season is Celia being truly vile and I just couldn't stand her and wished it would have been her dead instead. Happy viewing! :-)

 

Oh no, I already despise Celia, so I'm just dreading the thought of her topping her awfulness from last season.  The worst part is that Alan was a lovely man when he met her, and she's been slowly dragging him down to her nasty horrible level for two seasons now.  

 

I actually thought that Kate and Caroline had called things off last season.  Hmm.  I hate the fact that Kate's death is probably going to be used as a way to have Celia and Caroline reconcile.  Celia's terrible...I don't want Caroline to forgive her for anything, ever.

[bybrandy]

I didn't watch for Kate and Caroline so Kate's death didn't make inherently want to give up the show.   But how they went about it?  And then the darkness that added to the show?   Yeah, I  don't know that I thought it was worth it.   I would watch a series 4, probably, maybe.   But season 3 to me?   It didn't have the same joy as seasons one and two.

[SusanSunflower]

I haven't seen season 3 but if killing off Kate reempted watching Caroline break her heart ...I'm good.  The pairing was heading in such a predictably witchy direction -- one I had seen before where the affluent accustomed to getting her own way lesbian makes a miserable doormat out of the noble and kindhearted less-wealthy member of the pair ...  Yes, British TeeVee seems to have a terrible time dealing with homosexuals without bringing out the "Who's the husband?"  stereotypes.  Now, if I can just get over despising Caroline (oh, and her mother) and her ex(?)-husband  -- maybe not.