Glee - General Discussion

[Hiyo]

Unhinged in many ways. I once saw a video on Youtube that claimed for sure that Leah and Diana Agron were lovers.

Based on what?

While eating lunch in-between takes, Leah asked Diana if she wanted a salad with her lunch.

I am not joking.

[Cranberry]

 

[Featherhat]

43 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

Unhinged in many ways. I once saw a video on Youtube that claimed for sure that Leah and Diana Agron were lovers.

Based on what?

While eating lunch in-between takes, Leah asked Diana if she wanted a salad with her lunch.

I am not joking.

There were and probably still are dozens threads on the lesbian board L Chat that had hundreds of thousands of posts talking about "Achele" and how they were having a long term relationship with beards, cast all helping them, studio execs getting involved, people trying to contact relatives to find out, spy thriller level conspiracies, codes they used to tell their gay fans the truth, the reason they *weren't* ever hanging out together was to keep up the facade. It was funny at first but it was also unhinged. Then the backlash against it from other posters also got OTT and nasty as well. Fandom at its worst. Treating real people as if they too were characters in a soapy drama. 

[Craphole Island]

Chord’s post:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CCou_8spLP0/?igshid=19drfabe7ph75

(Sorry I have no idea how to post it as the actual image?)

Heather also posted that she’s taking some time. I know none of these people owe us any kind of post but it’s comforting to see how much they genuinely loved her and all of their tributes have been so thoughtful.

Edited July 14, 2020 by Craphole Island

[Cranberry]

I probably shouldn't have brought up the fandom! Let's not get into all of the non-Naya's-death-related craziness now. That never ends well.

I agree about the tributes. While none of her co-stars owed anyone a social media post, it's nice to read their good memories of Naya. Kevin's was especially beautiful.

[Scarlett45]

33 minutes ago, Cranberry said:

 

I probably shouldn't have brought up the fandom! Let's not get into all of the non-Naya's-death-related craziness now. That never ends well.

I agree about the tributes. While none of her co-stars owed anyone a social media post, it's nice to read their good memories of Naya. Kevin's was especially beautiful.

 

Yes the tributes are beautiful. Of course no one owes anyone else a social media post but I do appreciate the posts from those who have been motivated to share. 

[theschnauzers]

Dean Geyer (Brody in season 4) also posted his tribute on Twitter. So has Lauren Potter (Becky).

 

And there seems to be only a few shows where the casts are as close as the Glee cast even to minor characters. That cast chemistry and talent is what made Glee so special.  (I’d definitely would include BSG, Outlander and the CW Arrowverse shows in that mix.)

Edited July 18, 2020 by theschnauzers

[Lady Calypso]

It's really touching to see all of the tributes to Naya, especially from the Glee cast. For all the drama that has gone down with the cast, there is also a bond that they all share and you can still see that the show means a lot to them because of the people they did meet. It's nice to see the positive praise for Naya, as well. I was never a Santana fan, but I really enjoyed Naya as a person. It's interesting to see that, out of the entire cast, it was Cory and Naya who seemed to be the ones that people loved the most and the ones who were always trying to be inclusive with even the guest stars and the fans. You can really feel the love and sorrow over the last six days.

[shantown]

I am amazed at the impact she had beyond just the Glee world. There were quite a few big names on Glee back in the day who posted about their memories or working with her - Gwyneth Paltrow, Kristin Chenoweth, Ricky Martin, etc. But what I've been struck by are the posts from those who had no ties to Glee or any of Naya's other work, but were just fans of her characters or her impact on the LGBT/Black/Latina communities. People like Kamala Harris, AOC, Viola Davis, Josh Gad, Mandy Moore, Lin-Manuel Miranda, and more. It's been simultaneously lovely and heartbreaking to read about how well loved she was by so many.

(Also Cory Monteith's mom made about post about Naya and her friendship with Cory that was just so sad)

[choclatechip45]

Ryan, Ian and Brad released a statement, they are in the process of setting up a college fund for her son.

https://tvline.com/2020/07/14/naya-rivera-death-glee-brittana-ryan-murphy-statement/

Edited July 15, 2020 by choclatechip45
Spelling error

[Happy Camper]

I really appreciate the members of this board who took the time to post cast tributes and wonderful video performances of Naya. Thanks to each of you for sharing and for honouring this beautiful woman.

[theschnauzers]

Chord posted on his IG today. It’s at least four or more images and text.

[Bill1978]

5 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

For all the drama that has gone down with the cast, there is also a bond that they all share and you can still see that the show means a lot to them because of the people they did meet.

I really felt that bond when I re-watched the I Lived performance yesterday. The fact that nearly every 'kid' came back for that number shows how close they must have been. Regardless of any behind the scenes drama, the fact they all turned up to say goodbye to the show and the fans is pretty damn impressive for a cast that had a large ensemble over the years. You can tell by the end of the performance (I actually feel it when Matthew Morrison gives that little head kiss to Amber Riley at the beginning) that it's not the characters on that stage but the actual actors having fun for the last time.

I was sad hearing the news of Naya's death, but reading all those Instagram posts from her colleagues really drove home the fact how much she meant to so many people and that she is gone.

[Hiyo]

For anyone who isn't on IG and wants to see Chord's post:

 

[Happy Camper]

I saw Glee Live in Toronto years ago. Unforgettable. I wish that the show had lasted much longer. It was just so great. I just feel so sad about the outcome of some of the cast members. Forever Young comes to mind.

[Hiyo]

 

[Hiyo]

 

[Hiyo]

For those interested, this article has most of the tributes to Naya posted here, plus so many more (as others have posted, many people non-Glee related posted tributes as well, many featured here).

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/jane-lynch-chris-colfer-more-hollywood-stars-pay-tribute-naya-rivera-1302579

[Craphole Island]

11 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

It's really touching to see all of the tributes to Naya, especially from the Glee cast. For all the drama that has gone down with the cast, there is also a bond that they all share and you can still see that the show means a lot to them because of the people they did meet. It's nice to see the positive praise for Naya, as well. I was never a Santana fan, but I really enjoyed Naya as a person. It's interesting to see that, out of the entire cast, it was Cory and Naya who seemed to be the ones that people loved the most and the ones who were always trying to be inclusive with even the guest stars and the fans. You can really feel the love and sorrow over the last six days.

Yeah and you can feel that bond even within the comments of these Instagram posts. Jenna, Chris, Dianna, Kevin, Amber, Becca, Jacob, and Chord have been sharing the other cast tributes and commenting on each other’s posts. Specifically on Chord’s post I saw Jenna, Kevin, and Dianna call him Chordy and Chordoroy and well that’s just cute as hell.

But genuinely Naya has left behind such an impact. What a loss.

[Scarlett45]

I follow Kevin & Jenna’s glee recap podcast- I am sure they will honor Naya in an episode. I think I’m all caught up for this week. I don’t listen to every episode but the ones that interest me or have a fun guest star. 

[theschnauzers]

Grant Gustin posted on IG today his remembrance of Naya Rivera.

 

Grant Gustin’s IG post on Naya Rivera

[Chaos Theory]

I kinda hated the show when I originally watched it but I actually really like Ryan Murphy and a lot of the actors so I am incredibly tempted to give the show another shot.

On another front of you really want to get angry check out twitter and all the  “psychics” trying to “help” with the Naya search.  Even now they insist they are talking to her.  

 

Edited July 15, 2020 by Chaos Theory

[mtlchick]

Heather Morris' post.  😪

 

[truthaboutluv]

1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

I kinda hated the show when I originally watched it but I actually really like Ryan Murphy and a lot of the actors so I am not incredibly tempted to give the show another shot.

Even without the many tragedies/controversies that has since befallen the show, making it really awkward to watch now, I have zero interest in re-watching Glee. 

Glee went the way of many a Ryan Murphy production. Starts off decently, in some cases really strong and gets progressively awful. RIB (Ryan, Ian and Brad) have a sustainability issue when it comes to their productions. 

They have good ideas, can create great pilots and sometimes even a strong first season. But they cannot sustain it for multiple seasons. And when it gets bad, it gets REALLY bad. Glee by the end of its run was straight up awful. Just a complete shit show. 

Edited July 15, 2020 by truthaboutluv

[Snow Apple]

I haven't rewatched the show since it was on but I still watch the musical numbers when the mood strikes. The duet of Smooth Criminal with Naya is one I watch repeatedly even after all these years. 

[Cranberry]

I haven't rewatched the show either, and I probably never will, although I too revisit some of the musical performances every now and then. Multiple Santana numbers are among my faves -- "Valerie," "Rumor Has It/Someone Like You," "Smooth Criminal," "River Deep, Mountain High"... she was quite the talent and I'm glad she got a chance to shine on the show.

[Scarlett45]

11 hours ago, Cranberry said:

I haven't rewatched the show either, and I probably never will, although I too revisit some of the musical performances every now and then. Multiple Santana numbers are among my faves -- "Valerie," "Rumor Has It/Someone Like You," "Smooth Criminal," "River Deep, Mountain High"... she was quite the talent and I'm glad she got a chance to shine on the show.

I haven’t re-watched gLee, I stayed through the very end, but the show tanked after Season 3. I do re-listen to the music and I love the Christmas albums. 

 

16 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Glee by the end of its run was straight up awful. Just a complete shit show. 

It WAS. 

[Bill1978]

I haven't re-watched the series either but will regularly listen to the music and watch performance clips on YouTube. However, the other night I felt the urge to watch some episodes due to Naya's passing. The episodes were the '2009', the one where they win Nationals, 'Quarterback', the 100th episode and the final episode. In that order. While nationals and Quarterback held up well from a script point of view (on a sidenote I didn't realise how much New Directions blew away Vocal Directions at Nationals until the rewatch), 100 and the finale really show how much the writers stopped caring about making the show feel real. The actors tried their hardness but the writers just didn't care. I consider '2009' a bit of an outlier for Season 6 but I think that's because the writers were forced to make sure tonally it fit the pilot episode.

Season 6 smells of the creators having the poos that they were cancelled and just didn't care, which is a shame for everyone else involved in the show - especially the new kids. And the originals are trying their hardest not to show their disappointment with how low the show had sunk in quality.

After watching the 5 episodes back to back, and combined with viewing other Ryan Murphy comedy productions, it has become clear to me that the man does not know how to make a 'real; comedy. He needs to go out of his way to tell us all that we are watching a TV show. Maybe because I've just finished binging Community, but that show did a lot better in mixing in meta-jokes about being a TV show than the blunt anvil Glee used to do the same thing.

I've said it on other boards but Murphy shows work better on Netflix where he has to commit to an idea before it ever hits our screen so the story and generally the tone is consistent for a whole season. Even with all it's weirdness and downward quality I am grateful for all the musical performances it has provided me with.

 

[Hiyo]

Ryan and co. can’t sometimes even get one season to end well. Even anthology shows they do, like American Horror Story, which should play to their strengths, has some seasons where it all falls apart at the end. Coven was pretty good overall, but then it just apart towards the end.

As for Glee, if I ever did a re-watch, I think I’d probably only go as far as the first 3 seasons and end there, I guess.

[Lovecat]

On 7/15/2020 at 9:57 AM, Scarlett45 said:

I follow Kevin & Jenna’s glee recap podcast- I am sure they will honor Naya in an episode. I think I’m all caught up for this week. I don’t listen to every episode but the ones that interest me or have a fun guest star. 

Last week was S2E2 Britney/Brittany, and HeMo was the guest.  It was such a fun episode of the pod, and I had literally just finished listening to it Thursday morning on my commute when I saw the news about Naya being missing.  That night I watched S2E3 Grilled Cheesus and started S2E4 Duets (I'm usually a bit ahead of the pod).  I put Glee back on Monday evening after they had found Naya, knowing it was going to be a little hard to watch, but forgot Duets was the episode where she and Amber tore the roof off with River Deep, Mountain High, and my heart clutched in my chest when that scene came on.  I still can't believe that of the original 12 that closed out S1, THREE of them have died.  I don't subscribe to any of that "Glee Curse" shit; it's just a horrible set of circumstance and coincidence, but the waste of young life and talent makes me very sad.  

Anyway, I've rambled a bit.  I don't know when (or even if) Jenna and Kevin will be back.  It is going to be so hard for them, and while I was looking forward to the S2 recaps, it would be completely understandable if they chose to put the project aside indefinitely.  

[Scarlett45]

15 minutes ago, Lovecat said:

Last week was S2E2 Britney/Brittany, and HeMo was the guest.  It was such a fun episode of the pod, and I had literally just finished listening to it Thursday morning on my commute when I saw the news about Naya being missing.  That night I watched S2E3 Grilled Cheesus and started S2E4 Duets (I'm usually a bit ahead of the pod).  I put Glee back on Monday evening after they had found Naya, knowing it was going to be a little hard to watch, but forgot Duets was the episode where she and Amber tore the roof off with River Deep, Mountain High, and my heart clutched in my chest when that scene came on.  I still can't believe that of the original 12 that closed out S1, THREE of them have died.  I don't subscribe to any of that "Glee Curse" shit; it's just a horrible set of circumstance and coincidence, but the waste of young life and talent makes me very sad.  

Anyway, I've rambled a bit.  I don't know when (or even if) Jenna and Kevin will be back.  It is going to be so hard for them, and while I was looking forward to the S2 recaps, it would be completely understandable if they chose to put the project aside indefinitely.  

Yes I was listening to the Brittney/Brittany episode before I heard about Naya. 
 

I think they will likely continue- it’s a great way to still honor Naya and I’m sure there are financial commitments. Of course no one would be surprised if they took a hiatus. If they didn’t want to carry on I would understand. 

[choclatechip45]

I listened to the episode they had Naya and Heather on. I feel so bad for the 3 of them. It was nice to hear all 4 talk about their memories from Glee.  

[CoyoteBlue]

On 7/15/2020 at 4:41 PM, truthaboutluv said:

Glee by the end of its run was straight up awful. Just a complete shit show. 

On 7/16/2020 at 8:46 AM, Scarlett45 said:

It WAS. 

I was at one of Chris's book signings and while he was signing it, I told him that I loved the way he told stories, either writing or acting; even back when he was on Glee "and the last few seasons were a total shit show", he did his damndest to spin gold out of the shit they gave him for storylines. He started laughing his ass off and agreed that it was a total shit show. 

[Scarlett45]

23 hours ago, choclatechip45 said:

I listened to the episode they had Naya and Heather on. I feel so bad for the 3 of them. It was nice to hear all 4 talk about their memories from Glee.  

Which episode was this? I don’t think I listened to that one. 

[choclatechip45]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

Which episode was this? I don’t think I listened to that one. 

It is titled HEYA with Naya Rivera and Heather Morris June 6 & 13 2019. It was before they started recapping each episode. They did one with Amber and Chris that I haven’t listened to yet (April 18th 2019). 

[Hiyo]

That ep is worth checking out, if only for the Beyonce-in-the-bathroom story. There are parts of it available on Youtube.

 

Edited July 19, 2020 by Hiyo

[choclatechip45]

Chris Colfer wrote this touching tribute to Naya for Variety. 

https://variety.com/2020/tv/news/chris-colfer-naya-rivera-death-tribute-glee-1234712418/

Edited July 21, 2020 by choclatechip45
typo

[ms.o]

During its run, I feel Naya was painted as difficult. From the spats with Lea, suddenly being off show for a bit, etc - it seemed media and more likely RIB were controlling the narrative to make her out to be the biggest bitch. 

So many cast members  have written the most loving and heartfelt tributes to her. Multiple tributes  on social media and now Variety. No one is perfect, but she seemed to be so beloved by many.  
 

[choclatechip45]

2 hours ago, ms.o said:

During its run, I feel Naya was painted as difficult. From the spats with Lea, suddenly being off show for a bit, etc - it seemed media and more likely RIB were controlling the narrative to make her out to be the biggest bitch. 

So many cast members  have written the most loving and heartfelt tributes to her. Multiple tributes  on social media and now Variety. No one is perfect, but she seemed to be so beloved by many.  
 

I agree. No wonder the stories in the press that made her seem difficult bothered her. Listening to the podcast she did with Heather, Jenna and Kevin was interesting because I had no idea her and Heather were still super close. Plus they mentioned Gwyneth invited her for her birthday party one year (it is mentioned in the Beyonce story). Naya always said she thought the Lea thing was overblown. It is hard to believe that if she was truly super difficult her former cast mates would write so many tributes to her and almost every one mentions how professional she was and always knew her lines plus so many hold her in such high esteem.

[Cranberry]

I get the impression she was the kind of "difficult" where, as Chris says in that lovely piece, "She was never afraid to stand up to authority, she always called out mistreatment where she saw it." That kind of thing can get you labeled as "difficult" by bosses who want to walk all over you... like the boss I had long ago who tried to make me and my coworkers violate labor laws and called me "insolent" when I helpfully printed off the labor laws with the relevant section highlighted for her. Good for Naya for standing up for herself and her coworkers, and for being welcoming to all new cast members and guest stars, as several of them have mentioned in their tribute posts.

[Featherhat]

I think one can be considered "difficult" in many senses of the word and still overall a great person with a lot life and love to give, and a huge amount of fond memories created. Frankly I can imagine that many on this cast had their ups and downs for various reasons, not least that it suddenly catapulted so many of them into the TV stratosphere very quickly for the first time, the exhausting, long hours they worked and for the first few seasons the tours they did before going almost right back into filming. 

So theoretically Naya or others could have had their real issues on set and still have created this amazing, genuine bond and now outpouring of love and grief for her. 

And yeah as @Cranberry says "difficult" can also mean standing up for yourself, which can be an especially easy label to tag women with and even more so WOC. 

I have never done a Glee rewatch, I bailed mostly after S4 and haven't watched it since it got so infuriating. I was always aware of its faults, even in S1 but I did hugely enjoy it despite that and parts of it do mean a lot to me and Satana is a big part of that.  

[Snow Apple]

I think the tension between Naya and Lea may be because Lea was the lead. The star of the show. Then all of a sudden, this background character gets more screen time and became a fan favorite. Naya also had the talent to back it up. But I don’t know it it was as dramatic and knock out drag out as the gossip was.

In her book, Naya wrote fondly of hanging out with Lea in the early days of the show.

[choclatechip45]

3 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

I think the tension between Naya and Lea may be because Lea was the lead. The star of the show. Then all of a sudden, this background character gets more screen time and became a fan favorite. Naya also had the talent to back it up. But I don’t know it it was as dramatic and knock out drag out as the gossip was.

In her book, Naya wrote fondly of hanging out with Lea in the early days of the show.

I always figured the tension between them was because of Naya’s screen time in season 3 and basically became the 4th lead/second female lead among the Glee Club. I always figured Lea complained and that’s why they had no idea what to do with Santana in the first half of season 4.

[Scarlett45]

I like this compilation. https://youtu.be/fQ3YqG0tS6k

[Scarlett45]

People article and statement from Naya’s ex husband here.

To lose one’s mother so young, poor Josey. But he will be able to see so much footage of her and know what a beautiful, talented person she was. 

[Harleycat]

Re-watching Glee and can't help but notice how dated the show was at times. 

I mean, shouldn't have Mr. Schuew been very fired when he suspended a 15 year old from glee club for refusing to dance around in a bikini in front of him during the Katie vs. Gaga week? Shouldn't her mother, who works at the school and is trained as a school employee on grooming behaviors, spoken up? 

[Bill1978]

2 hours ago, Harleycat said:

I mean, shouldn't have Mr. Schuew been very fired when he suspended a 15 year old from glee club for refusing to dance around in a bikini in front of him during the Katie vs. Gaga week?

If Will got fired for that (and not saying he shouldn't have) then Sue should have been fired in... I don't know... about the Pilot episode for her shenanigans. Glee never claimed to be based in reality, it was always a heightened view of reality with a strong dollop of black humour. In the end it's a comedy and was never supposed to be taken seriously as a reflection on real life.

[Hiyo]

Quote

Glee never claimed to be based in reality, it was always a heightened view of reality with a strong dollop of black humour.

Season 1, maybe, but after that it became less of a black comedy.

Granted, it might just be that I don't see the comedy in forcing an underage girl to have to parade around in a bikini if she doesn't feel comfortable in one, and I don't remember the scene itself being played for laughs as well.

Shue was the worst.

Edited August 1, 2020 by Hiyo

[theschnauzers]

At its heart, Glee was always described as a comedy-drama-musical. It was a unique combination of all three, and has never been copied. It’s important to remember the timeframe of the series as production began in 2008 and it finished five and a half seasons in 2015. Morals change, perceptions change, values change. Many comedies from earlier decades are, to me, virtually unwatchable because of that. Look at what had to be done with Gone With The Wind, in spite of the fact it won multiple Oscars in 1939, but the portrayal of black characters are offensive to modern attitudes, and even though the movie was faithful to the original novel. So that’s something you have to learn to do as applying current sensibilities to television and film made in the past distorts things. 

Edited August 2, 2020 by theschnauzers

[Bill1978]

14 hours ago, Hiyo said:

Granted, it might just be that I don't see the comedy in forcing an underage girl to have to parade around in a bikini if she doesn't feel comfortable in one, and I don't remember the scene itself being played for laughs as well.

I agree totally. I hate that the writers thought it was acceptable for a teacher to punish a girl for not wearing a costume that made her feel uncomfortable. But I don't hate Mr. Schue because he said it. I hate the writers for making Matthew Morrison having to say it. Unfortunately there are many lazy writers who just write lazy lines for 'plot reasons' and don't stop to think of a better way to keep the plot flowing. It's lazy writing like the above moment that often results in writers creating an affair story line because it's easy dramatic conflict. And that's usually enough to make me quit a show, especially when the drama isn't needed.

By this time Glee had pretty much given up caring about anything other than selling music in my opinion and ignoring the fact they should never had split storylines and that they graduated the original cast way too early.