Laurel Lance: Black Canary, Black Siren.

[tarotx]

Laurel taking Care of Thea while she has her issues seems like a good thing to me so it's not happening. Olicity are a couple in a kind of newly wed state(living together as a couple).They don't need a young adult living with them So having Laurel be there for Thea fits imo. I want Thea and Laurel to move in together. It won't be much screen time but the bond can be cast with that knowledge.

So yesterday I was shopping with my son and we looked at Halloween masks. There was a gorgeous hard but flexible dark grey (with a lighter grey stitch) mask with a lace/fishnet textured stitch. And the model had a gold eyeshadow on her lid and underneath. It's what I want for my future canary cosplay. I think Laurel would look feminine in something like that. The textured print/stich wasn't over powering. I wish I had my phone but I had let it's power too drained :(

 

Spelling and grammar hate me cause I embarrassingly suck at it.... 

Edited October 2, 2015 by tarotx

[SonofaBiscuit]

I think one of the craziest things last season was the extent to which Laurel was absolutely not present for these really significant events that were taking place.  (Forgive me if I get some of these wrong...my memory is terrible!).  Oliver was going off to fight Ra's (possibly to his death), Laurel had no clue, and he couldn't tell her because then she would ask why (I'm not sure why he couldn't come up with some acceptable reason or other explanation, though).  Oliver returns from the dead, and Roy, Diggle, and Felicity are all there to greet him, but no Laurel.  Roy is leaving forever...no Laurel.  Oliver is leaving for good to become the next Ra's...Laurel's not there and nobody bothers to tell her that Oliver is never coming back.  If the writers can't be bothered to make an effort with Laurel, why should the audience?  

[tangerine95]

I'm glad the writers don't include her in those moments.I don't want her there nor was she needed.She barely knew Roy and only spent time with him because he had to babysit her when she insisted on going to fight with minimal training.

They stoped pretending Oliver wants her or needs her in his life so she wasn't missed in any of his godbye scenes.What would she even have done in NP in 3.20,Diggle and Felicity were mostly there as emotional suport to Oliver which is something Laurel doesn't really give Oliver.

I never felt like there was an important moment that Laurel should have been present for.

I don't see how 4 seasons in they can solve this.

[looptab]

I'm convinced-but not really- that  this won't happen in S4. S3 was a sort of transition for her, from outside the team to inside. Mostly she was still outside. But as things were in the finale, and appear to be in the promo, she's now a full member of the team (it pains me saying it). So I guess she won't miss any important events, but who knows, ahah.

Edited October 1, 2015 by looptab

[Sakura12]

No one told Laurel about Thea going into the Lazarus Pit either. The other characters barely remember Laurel so I don't know why we have too. 

[Chaser]

I'm almost convinced Laurel is going to have a Roy-like role next season. Full fledged member of Team Arrow, but a little like window dressing.

[Soulfire]

I'm glad the writers don't include her in those moments.I don't want her there nor was she needed.

 

I'm glad too she wasn't included because I simply don't care for Laurel, but beyond personal preference it also goes to prove how completely unnecessary she is to the show's main narrative. Take her out of the show now and nothing about its main narrative changes.

[tangerine95]

Yeah i think she'll be there like in the finale from now on.But even after Oliver accepted the new masks he still got a moment with everyone but Laurel before he left.He had his moment with Diggle where he called him a hero,said goodbye to Thea and gave her the name Speedy even gave Malcolm the ring and made him Ras.So she was once again excluded because she doesn't hold a unique position in Oliver's life.

Even when they have a better friendship with less yelling at each other I still think there are like at least 3 other people Oliver would talk to before he would go to Laurel for any kind of emotional moment that pushes his emotional development forward.

[statsgirl]

I think one of the craziest things last season was the extent to which Laurel was absolutely not present for these really significant events that were taking place.

 

Other than being in the know, what would Laurel have added to those scenes?  (This is a serious question.)  Oliver said goodbye to his brother-of-the-heart Diggle, to his protege Roy and to his love Felicity.  His relationship with Laurel is so problematic that to insert her into the goodbyes would have detracted from the three he did do.

 

The Fallen, Nanda Parbat was already so crowded with Thea, Malcolm, Diggle and Felicity plus the LoA, a scene with Laurel would have ended up on the cutting room floor as the hangar scene did.  Felicity did go to Laurel's office to tell her and that set off the Laurel/Nyssa arc.

 

They need to find a way to put Laurel into the A-plot. All the Laurel/Thea scenes in the world won't matter if those scenes are peripheral to the A-plot. Laurel doesn't have a narrative role in Oliver's story, and that's a problem for any character on this show, because it's his story. Until they figure out an on-going narrative role for her in Oliver's story arc, she just doesn't belong to the story.

I'm going to disagree because I think they have tried (somewhat) and can't do it.  But they want to keep her on the show so they give her her own stories.  I like your suggestion of how she can be Oliver's lawyer

as he runs for mayor

but even that isn't going to give her enough to be important enough to the story to keep her scenes from the cutting room floor.  (Notice that most of the deleted scenes in s3 were of Felicity and you can't say she's peripheral.)

 

It's the same problem that 2B had with Sara -- that either the Black Canary is Oliver's equal or she's peripheral and does mostly her own thing intersecting with Team Arrow occasionally. As Laura Hurley has pointed out, BC's fighting skills are mostly unnecessary to Team Arrow because they already have Oliver, Diggle, and now Thea, and to get Thea on they had to get rid of Roy.

 

I think better than having Laurel dance in Oliver's periphery, they should give her a solid storyline of her own, possibly incorporating Sin and Ted Grant.  A human trafficking story would pull together her legal skills and her BC persona (she can't get a conviction so she dons the black leather).  Quentin as a police captain would be involved, Sin could bring the case to her and be her informant making it dangerous for Sin, and they could even bring Ted Grant and his gym into it as a source of information.

 

Damian Darhk is the kind  of villain who would be into human trafficking and this would bring Oliver and Team Arrow into it.

 

Putting Laurel into the background of Team Arrow scenes isn't going to be enough.  I think they need to give her her own story.

[Sakura12]

They better not give Sin to Laurel, she already took her girlfriend, she doesn't get Sara's little sister too. 

[tangerine95]

Giving her her own villain and story IMO wouldn't work.It's Oliver's show and the people who get the most screentime and focus are the ones most connected to him.The storylines Felicity,Diggle and Thea will have will affect Oliver in a way that BC having her own team and sidestory won't.It will just feel like a different show that takes away from the main story like Laurel in season 2 or Ray in season 3 felt.

There's just no room for BC on this show as a regular.I think they can either write her out or mostly keep her in the background like they did with Roy.

[tarotx]

Later in the season they need to get her under cover in HIVE. Laurel can quit the DA and get a job in HIVE. Every organizations need lawyers.

[Smoaking Reporter]

Later in the season they need to get her under cover in HIVE. Laurel can quit the DA and get a job in HIVE. Every organizations need lawyers.

OMG that would be awesome except I wouldn't like her giving up her job as ADA. I still think it would be awesome but I imagine DD knows everything about Team Arrow/The people Oliver cares about so it probably wouldn't work.

[Chaser]

I think that could have worked if they had keep Laurel working at the CNRI. But I don't think they would want to hire a former DA and the daughter of a well known police offical.

[Primal Slayer]

Having Laurel absent so much during the 2nd half of the season was ridiculous. She should've known about Thea, who was closer to her then everyone who did know except for Oliver. She also should've been around when Roy left, he was the first member of TA to accept her and stand up for her, obviously they weren't besties but they grew close to one another and having Ray there, even though he was in the background, was ridiculous.

Laurel/Olivers biggest problem is that he always lied to her and pushed her away and even after finding out his secret, nothing changed.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Primal Slayer

[apinknightmare]

Laurel/Oliver's biggest problem was that he continually lied to her and cheated on her, and she knew about it and still wanted to be Mrs. Oliver Queen. Add in the fact that he got with Sara again when she returned and there's a kid out there that's the result of sex he had while he was still with Laurel...yuck x 1,000,000.

[dtissagirl]

I think better than having Laurel dance in Oliver's periphery, they should give her a solid storyline of her own, possibly incorporating Sin and Ted Grant.  A human trafficking story would pull together her legal skills and her BC persona (she can't get a conviction so she dons the black leather).  Quentin as a police captain would be involved, Sin could bring the case to her and be her informant making it dangerous for Sin, and they could even bring Ted Grant and his gym into it as a source of information.

 

While this would work for me personally -- if Laurel gets the sidestory, I can fast forward her more easily -- I think giving her a separate storyline creates the same problem they had with Ray Palmer in S3.

 

Laurel's never gonna be Oliver's equal. Nor she's gonna be second banana anymore, that ship has sailed a long time ago, when the writing stripped her of two consecutive narrative roles,.  The best she can do in S4 is fourth banana after Dig and Felicity. Maybe fifth banana, depending on how successfully they integrate Thea into the A plot too. The problem is right now? Laurel's not even A banana. She's a completely different fruit.

[tangerine95]

She was close to Thea for a few eps in season 1 then that was droped.Also this season Thea killed her sister so I'm sure it was kinda awkward betwen them at the very least.

Even Thea wasn't there when Roy left so it's not that strange Laurel wasn't.Only the people who were involved in getting him out of jail and who worked with him the longest were there.

Ray was there driving Felicity and he stood in the background the whole time,he didn't get a goodbye with Roy.

[Primal Slayer]

Giving her her own villain and story IMO wouldn't work.It's Oliver's show and the people who get the most screentime and focus are the ones most connected to him.The storylines Felicity,Diggle and Thea will have will affect Oliver in a way that BC having her own team and sidestory won't.It will just feel like a different show that takes away from the main story like Laurel in season 2 or Ray in season 3 felt.

There's just no room for BC on this show as a regular.I think they can either write her out or mostly keep her in the background like they did with Roy.

Giving Laurel her own villain doesn't take away from Oliver, not to mention that it would probably end up tying into Team Arrow. Felicity got her own villain on a show she is nothing but a guest star on, Giles/Willow/Faith/Angel/Dawn/Spike all got their own villains on Buffy. Williw became a big bad where she was more powerful then Buffy and Giles saved her while Xander ended up saving the day.

It is up to the writers to think about a good enough way to let her shine while having everyone else involved. It could even be a lacky of DD. Plenty of ways to do it.

[tarotx]

The Yuck factor is the reason Laurel either needs to be a Roy like side character if being on team is her main story. Imo she needs to be connected to the A story from being a Lawyer, Being connected to the Villain and/or doing side things with 2 or more of the NotOliver characters. The former is what they did the first two seasons and the latter is what they did last season (while Oliver was dead). The connected to the villain worked with Blood and indirectly with Malcolm via Tommy. The doing her own thing would work better if she was undercover with the Villain or her love interest was the Villain, or if she was doing Birds of a prey time things with Felicia and Thea or even Diggle. Instead of forcing her to be a star of team Arrow. While Oliver is there she's just a side kick. 

[lexicon]

While this would work for me personally -- if Laurel gets the sidestory, I can fast forward her more easily -- I think giving her a separate storyline creates the same problem they had with Ray Palmer in S3.

 

Laurel's never gonna be Oliver's equal. Nor she's gonna be second banana anymore, that ship has sailed a long time ago, when the writing stripped her of two consecutive narrative roles,.  The best she can do in S4 is fourth banana after Dig and Felicity. Maybe fifth banana, depending on how successfully they integrate Thea into the A plot too. The problem is right now? Laurel's not even A banana. She's a completely different fruit.

 

An apple maybe? I'm so sorry...I couldn't resist, it was the perfect set up.

[dtissagirl]

[shhh. I know. It's why I set it up.]

[tangerine95]

Giving Laurel her own villain doesn't take away from Oliver, not to mention that it would probably end up tying into Team Arrow. Felicity got her own villain on a show she is nothing but a guest star on, Giles/Willow/Faith/Angel/Dawn/Spike all got their own villains on Buffy. Williw became a big bad where she was more powerful then Buffy and Giles saved her while Xander ended up saving the day.

It is up to the writers to think about a good enough way to let her shine while having everyone else involved. It could even be a lacky of DD. Plenty of ways to do it.

I meant a more then one episode thing.Felicity's villain was oversold and ended up being a 2 minute scene.I'm just going by how the show has worked for 3 seasons now.Laurel always gets her episodes that usually don't have much impact on Oliver so I guess this year that will be about bringing Sara back.

I'm sure if they plan they had at the start of the show worked Laurel would be geting a lot more stuff like being second in command in the team or her own villain because they planed her being much more connected to Oliver then she ended up being and her plots would affect him so it wouldn't seem like a different show.

These writers have been failing to include and connect Laurel to the main plot for 3 seasons now,I don't trust that they would manage that and looking at her current role on the show I don't think they can at this point.

[statsgirl]

Laurel's never gonna be Oliver's equal. Nor she's gonna be second banana anymore, that ship has sailed a long time ago, when the writing stripped her of two consecutive narrative roles,.  The best she can do in S4 is fourth banana after Dig and Felicity. Maybe fifth banana, depending on how successfully they integrate Thea into the A plot too. The problem is right now? Laurel's not even A banana. She's a completely different fruit.

We agree on the problem.  We just disagree on the solution.  (I want her to have her own fruit bowl.)

 

That ship never could sail -- even Sara, who was the BC of the comics, couldn't integrate successfully into Team Arrow without warping the show (i.e. Diggle and Felicity turned into spear carriers).

 

For me, Ray's storyline didn't work last season because it took Felicity away from Oliver, Diggle, and the workings of Team Arrow and turned her into someone I didn't recognize.  I don't think that would happen in Laurel's case.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Wasn't last season supposed to be the big year for both Thea and Laurel?  I vaguely remember Guggenheim talking about Thea and Laurel really earning the focus they would be getting in season 3.  Then, of course, we had all of the #RiseofBlackCanary stuff.  And didn't Laurel kinda sorta have her own villain with Brick (well, her and Roy while Diggle waited in the van)?  In the writer's minds, I think that they believe that Laurel DID get a lot of focus last year.  This year, I've heard that the focus is going to be on two other characters (who I won't name because spoilers), so I don't think time is going to be devoted to giving Laurel her own arc.  I really don't. 

Edited October 1, 2015 by SonofaBiscuit

[Primal Slayer]

The writers think that last season was very Laurel/Thea centric but it wasn't. They were afterthoughts as quickly as they were they were focused on.

[lemotomato]

I thought the 3 episodes after the winter hiatus were pretty darn Laurel-centric. They even kept Oliver mostly off-screen in the present to make room for the BC storyline. 3x06 was also a Laurel episode.

[slayer2]

I thought the 3 episodes after the winter hiatus were pretty darn Laurel-centric. They even kept Oliver mostly off-screen in the present to make room for the BC storyline. 3x06 was also a Laurel episode.

 

I most enjoyed the scenes where Oliver was segregated from the cast, I like watching him on his own and I like watching Laurel as part of Team Arrow. I'm going to enjoy the first bit of season 4 that puts Thea, Laurel and Diggle together as a team with their own costumes, codenames and their own strategy. I am very very excited for where this is going, especially with all the hints dropped about Laurel on LoT and LoT in general. Hyped.

Edited October 2, 2015 by slayer2

[BkWurm1]

Laurel has always had a few post hiatus focus episodes so I expect that trend to continue this year. Maybe she'll catch a ride in her own fruit bowl for that and then toward the end the team will come in and we'll have fruit salad. Or maybe a nice jello mold.

[aslightjump]

I'm not sure how I feel about Laurel on LoT. But then again, I'm not sure how I feel about LoT in general. I'll watch because I'm trash for Hawkgirl and I liked Ray well enough and Sara's okay, but DCTV is such an odd mash of lore that as much as I tell myself that its a different continuity I can't get over the comic differences. 

 

And the storylines for Laurel and Thea were all over the place, but with how the main characters were written last season that was kind of a blessing.

[HighwayFlower]

They should have followed New 52 universe where Black Canary and Green Arrow don't know each other. On a show called Arrow, Black Canary was only ever going to be a side kick, and the character is too big for that.

Her role from the start should have been occasion drop in guest, or they should have tried harder to make Birds of Prey its own show.

But too late for that, so we get a watered down black canary that they have to force into the plot.

[Primal Slayer]

Even Pre-52 they didn't meet one another until they were both in the Justice League. The writers just had to go and try to be "deep" by connecting them more then they ever were. I've always thought that they should've started the show out using Bonnie King in Laurels place and bring in Laurel/Black Canary in the 2nd season. But they had to be greedy and have her there from the beginning going completely against her character.

[yellowfred]

Even Thea wasn't there when Roy left so it's not that strange Laurel wasn't.Only the people who were involved in getting him out of jail and who worked with him the longest were there.

 

I might have gotten this wrong, but wasn't Laurel in on that plan?  Maybe I'm just assuming she was, because otherwise she was just going along with letting Roy fully take the fall for Oliver (and also probably the one who made the call to put him in General Population in the prison, if my limited knowledge of DA powers is correct).

 

As far as how to integrate Laurel into the team going forward, I think a degree of self-awareness on the part of the writers and the character would go a long way.  Like, I think Laurel is controlling and stubborn in the same way that Oliver is, which is a perfectly fine character trait to have, but only if the other characters react to it as that.  I think that Laurel and Oliver have a really gross history together and that they tend to bring out each other's worst sides, and yet the show seems to want to pretend that they're just old friends.  I also think that Laurel's been wanting to put on her sister's mask (and wig) since before she even knew it was her sister, but the show tried to say that it was only after Sara died and only to honor her memory or something.  Basically, I don't think there's much wrong with who she is, as a character, but she's never going to work (for me) if it feels like the show is constantly trying to tell us that she's someone else.

[kismet]

 think better than having Laurel dance in Oliver's periphery, they should give her a solid storyline of her own, possibly incorporating Sin and Ted Grant.  A human trafficking story would pull together her legal skills and her BC persona (she can't get a conviction so she dons the black leather).  Quentin as a police captain would be involved, Sin could bring the case to her and be her informant making it dangerous for Sin, and they could even bring Ted Grant and his gym into it as a source of information.

 

Putting Laurel into the background of Team Arrow scenes isn't going to be enough.  I think they need to give her her own story.

We talked about this plot awhile back. It's really dark & gritty and would work especially with Bratva. However, people here have legititmate concerns that it might be too dark for the show. I would be interested in seeing ARROW take it on, but I don't need to see it. I also don't know if it is the wheelhouse of these writers to do a good job on the story. In addition, WM mentioned not wanting to use violence against women just for sensational reasons. A sex/human trafficking plot can get very close to that edge if not handled properly.

 

But seriously, a trafficking story is the only way I can see LL/BC being fully integrated into the A plot. I guess she could be

Mayoral Queen's chief of staff

except SA & KC look like they can barely tolerate the other's presence in their scenes. I don't see how that chemistry killer is going to plan out if they try to put him on her professional team. She'd be better off going to work for Palmer/Smoak Tech.

 

She might be on Team Arrow this year. But like Roy, last year she really is just the hired help. Nobody is integrating her character into the emotional arcs or the major plot arcs.

They are throwing her SL resurrection, not because it is a healthy fit for her character. But because it is convenient. There is no way they can spin that ressurection story that is not going to make LL seem selfish.

. Just like they couldn't spin the lying to QL as not appearing selfish. Yes at the root of both arcs was the fact that LL loves her family (or so they keep telling us), but the narrative tends to paint her story in not the best light time and time again.

 

Honestly, I'm not sure she needs her own story. She just needs the writers to remember that she is part of the story. I'm ok w/ LL light episodes, because they haven't done anything I've liked for her since s1 &2a ~ but the less they give me her, the less I really want from her. They are weaning me off of caring about her character & her stories - other than as an analytical exercise in TV characters & how to fix them.

Laurel's never gonna be Oliver's equal. Nor she's gonna be second banana anymore, that ship has sailed a long time ago, when the writing stripped her of two consecutive narrative roles,.  The best she can do in S4 is fourth banana after Dig and Felicity. Maybe fifth banana, depending on how successfully they integrate Thea into the A plot too. The problem is right now? Laurel's not even A banana. She's a completely different fruit.

This made me laugh... I have no idea why, but the visual of a bunch of bananas & LL standing next to them was hysterical. thx :)

[SmallScreenDiva]

If I wanted to be cruel, I'd say Laurel was a durian, but I'm really trying to be nice. 

 

Hey! Don't insult the durian! ;) (I had some durian ice cream in Chinatown. Really good! Don't quite understand what the fuss is about regarding that fruit)

[lemotomato]

Hey! Don't insult the durian! ;) (I had some durian ice cream in Chinatown. Really good! Don't quite understand what the fuss is about regarding that fruit)

It's one of those foods that tastes awful to some people, like cilantro. I tried some for the first time recently and nearly threw up. But my mom loves the stuff. 

 

Also, aren't durians prickly on the outside? Maybe it actually is an appropriate fruit comparison to LL.

Edited October 2, 2015 by lemotomato

[Menrva]

Hey! Don't insult the durian! ;) (I had some durian ice cream in Chinatown. Really good! Don't quite understand what the fuss is about regarding that fruit)

 

 

It's one of those foods that tastes awful to some people, like cilantro. I tried some for the first time recently and nearly threw up. But my mom loves the stuff.

Also, aren't durians prickly on the outside? Maybe it actually is an appropriate fruit comparison to LL.

Actually, that was kind of the point I was trying to make. People either love or hate durian, and it seems like people react to LL in a similar fashion. Glad you understood what I was trying to say, though apparently I didn't do a good job of explaining myself.

[BkWurm1]

Hey! Don't insult the durian! ;) (I had some durian ice cream in Chinatown. Really good! Don't quite understand what the fuss is about regarding that fruit)

I heard it smells just something awful even if it tastes wonderful to some.  Loved this description of the smell. 

If you've smelled a durian even once, you probably remember it. Even with the husk intact, the notorious Asian fruit has such a potent stench that it's banned on the Singapore Rapid Mass Transit. Food writer Richard Sterling has written “its odor is best described as…turpentine and onions, garnished with a gym sock

 

It's one of those foods that tastes awful to some people, like cilantro

 

Well, I love cilantro so there's hope left for me to learn to like Laurel!

[Lady Calypso]

So, out of the blue yesterday, I decided to watch the pilot of Arrow. And then, before I knew it, I am now on episode 12. And you know what? I actually forgot how much I LIKED Laurel. She had her own storylines, first of all. I loved that she was a mostly competent DA, and one who did care about her clients. Sure, she was selfish in her own way, but she ended up owning up to it with admitting her being wrong for being so harsh on Oliver for so long, and she was maybe a better written and better acted character than she has been after season 1. Plus, I LOVE her dark brown hair way more than her light hair. Her relationship for Tommy had Katie Cassidy at her best, in my opinion, and we've actually gotten strong Laurel/Quentin scenes. Sure, the actual Oliver/Laurel scenes aren't great, but not as cringeworthy as I remember, and they certainly made better friends in season 1 than they have after that. 

 

Plus, her relationship with Thea is strong and they actually show it more; it's especially prominent when she has to convince her dad to help Thea when she almost goes to jail, instead of holding a grudge for Oliver. There's a lot I've forgotten from season 1 (especially her dinner with Tommy and Malcom....damn), but she was actually pretty likeable, outside of the Oliver/Laurel scenes. Those are still pretty bad, but when she's interacting with others, and even when she has friendship scenes with Oliver, she's great. Plus, I really do miss her friend Joanna. She also helped Laurel have a life outside of the love crap that she was thrown into, and especially the stupid alcohol addiction storyline she was given afterward. I like when main characters have friends outside of the main cast, and I do think Laurel benefited from having Joanna around. 

 

Trust me, I've been a loyal anti-Laurel supporter since season 2, but watching season 1 Laurel makes me wonder where this Laurel went and why she had to become so damn dislikeable, because I really do like her (again, besides the Oliver/Laurel shit, which I still hate). But she really did get in trouble...a LOT. But I forgot she defended herself, and Tommy/Oliver in episode three. Not the best stunt work, but she was certainly capable of basic moves. I wish we saw more of that.

[Sakura12]

I found Laurel boring in Season 1 and couldn't wait for her scenes to be over. Then I hated her for getting Tommy killed.

She just became worse in season 2.

[kismet]

So, out of the blue yesterday, I decided to watch the pilot of Arrow. And then, before I knew it, I am now on episode 12. And you know what? I actually forgot how much I LIKED Laurel. She had her own storylines, first of all. I loved that she was a mostly competent DA, and one who did care about her clients. Sure, she was selfish in her own way, but she ended up owning up to it with admitting her being wrong for being so harsh on Oliver for so long, and she was maybe a better written and better acted character than she has been after season 1. Plus, I LOVE her dark brown hair way more than her light hair. Her relationship for Tommy had Katie Cassidy at her best, in my opinion, and we've actually gotten strong Laurel/Quentin scenes. Sure, the actual Oliver/Laurel scenes aren't great, but not as cringeworthy as I remember, and they certainly made better friends in season 1 than they have after that. 

 

Plus, her relationship with Thea is strong and they actually show it more; it's especially prominent when she has to convince her dad to help Thea when she almost goes to jail, instead of holding a grudge for Oliver. There's a lot I've forgotten from season 1 (especially her dinner with Tommy and Malcom....damn), but she was actually pretty likeable, outside of the Oliver/Laurel scenes. Those are still pretty bad, but when she's interacting with others, and even when she has friendship scenes with Oliver, she's great. Plus, I really do miss her friend Joanna. She also helped Laurel have a life outside of the love crap that she was thrown into, and especially the stupid alcohol addiction storyline she was given afterward. I like when main characters have friends outside of the main cast, and I do think Laurel benefited from having Joanna around. 

 

Trust me, I've been a loyal anti-Laurel supporter since season 2, but watching season 1 Laurel makes me wonder where this Laurel went and why she had to become so damn dislikeable, because I really do like her (again, besides the Oliver/Laurel shit, which I still hate). But she really did get in trouble...a LOT. But I forgot she defended herself, and Tommy/Oliver in episode three. Not the best stunt work, but she was certainly capable of basic moves. I wish we saw more of that.

I had the same reaction when I rewatched s1 during last winter/early spring. I miss her dark hair and her job at CNRI. I felt like she was somebody I could have rooted for. But since the finale trilogy of s1, I felt her moving away from that character and more into the self-absorbed LL she is now. It's not that I blame Tommy's death on her, but she never should have gone back into the building. That is when I can pinpoint the "Oh Laurel" & facepalming moments started for me. Then s2 was so uneven. I really think s3 had nothing to do with LL.

 

I'm not saying she ever would have been me fav character. But if they had kept her closer to who she was in s1, I don't think I would be advocating as much for her to be moved off of ARROW. For me she has no purpose on the show anymore, because the writers haven't bothered to write for LL since middle of s2. I want her to relevant again or off my screen. There is no in-between for me anymore, although it does become fun to wonder either why is LL there or where is LL?

[Delphi]

I adore Laurel in season one. Superficially because Katie was so pretty. But I often find myself watching Laurel episodes of season one. Which is why I feel that it's unfair to blame Katie for Laurel. It's hard to act when nothing makes sense.

What I would really love is for Laurel to discover that she doesn't care for being ADA and instead reopens CNRI in the glades. It really didn't make sense that it was shut down, surely there are other buildings in Starling that she could rent.

[Starfish35]

Which is why I feel that it's unfair to blame Katie for Laurel. It's hard to act when nothing makes sense.

I don't think it's unfair for me. I didn't enjoy Laurel in season one, and a very large part of the reason for that was Katie's performance. I felt like she was by far the weakest link in a cast that all outshone her. Now, true, I didn't actually start to hate the character until into season two, but even in season one, I was frustrated that a character that I'd looked so much forward to had turned out to be such a disappointment. And yes, the writing didn't help her out, but a large part of my frustration was due to Katie's acting, so I don't think I'm being unfair.

Edited October 11, 2015 by Starfish35

[Chaser]

I thought there was potential for Laurel in S1, at the start at least. But she just became a walking contradiction, completely lost in the plot and instead of building on the few positive they just completely demolished her S2. I did think KC was better in S1. I didn't even get the whole blank stare thing until S2.

I always placed most of the blame for Laurel not working on the writers but KC was terrible in 4x01. The blank stare was back in full force. She was telegraphed and lifeless in most scenes. The only spark of life was the line to Thea on the bike and scene with the kid (which seemed more KC).

Edited October 11, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[HighwayFlower]

I didn't like Laurel in season one at all. She was wishy washy with Oliver and Tommy, still came off snotty. I knew I was supposed to like her since she was being set up as the love interest, but I just couldn't.

She was prettier though.

[Primal Slayer]

I was cool with Laurel in season 1 but it frustrated me to death how they reduced her to the common love interest/damsel in distress. The few times she got to show her tougher side with the bad guys was great

[HighwayFlower]

Her tough side always came off bitchy to me. Still does. I just have never seen any of the warmth she is supposed to have. Not even in Season 1.

[EmilyBettFan]

Her tough side always came off bitchy to me. Still does. I just have never seen any of the warmth she is supposed to have. Not even in Season 1.

Yes this so much. I can barely watch her scenes because of this very reason.

[Primal Slayer]

I really wish they would give her some silver tonfas or something to help offset all of her black.

[kismet]

I feel like BC's winking or looking directly into the camera at inopportune times during a fight is going to be her character's thing. It's like Roy's incessant flipping. Frankly, I don't know how I feel about it though. Where RH's flipping seemed unnecessary at times it didn't break the 3rd wall. BC's attention being on the camera instead of the fight pulls me out of the scene. I only like 3rd walls coming down when they do it well like in House of Cards or Saved by the Bell. Other than that, I think it breaks the fluidity of the scene. But I guess it might easier to make those cuts than the cuts to the stunt double all the time. And it does fulfill her screen time allotments.