Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - General Discussion

[Lugal]

I think eps like "Take Me out to the Holosuite" improved the whole Dominion War arc, because sometimes we need a break.  Even people at war are shifted off the frontlines and get leave.  We need the breaks to recover our strength for the heavy eps.  Something writers today have forgotten.  If it were done today, I fear the whole war story would just be unrelentingly bleak.

[cambridgeguy]

On 9/5/2021 at 4:53 PM, Raja said:

Speaking about Chief O'Brian I can't believe that I forgot he was shown on the edge of suicide after his 20 year prison sentence

Well, given that everyone else, including the chief, completely forgot about it too I wouldn't feel bad about it.

20 hours ago, Lugal said:

If it were done today, I fear the whole war story would just be unrelentingly bleak.

If it were done today fans would bitch about how it's a complete betrayal of the Roddenberry vision and Trek in name only.

[Raja]

26 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

 

If it were done today fans would bitch about how it's a complete betrayal of the Roddenberry vision and Trek in name only.

Don't think the bitching didn't happen in the early internet days. Today there are more TNG first fans since those who saw the original show go from early cancellation to a good movie are starting to pass 

[Maverick]

4 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

If it were done today fans would bitch about how it's a complete betrayal of the Roddenberry vision and Trek in name only.

 People made those complaints at the time.  It had main characters at odds with each, criminals, Starfleet corruption, religion, a warship.  DS9 was always the red headed stepchild of Trek.   For the most part, I think it did a good job of showing a different view of the Trek universe and it believably fit in.  But I feel like if Ron Moore had his way, it would have been as bleak as Battlestar Galactica, which most definitely would not have worked.  

[KatWay]

12 hours ago, Maverick said:

 People made those complaints at the time.  It had main characters at odds with each, criminals, Starfleet corruption, religion, a warship.  DS9 was always the red headed stepchild of Trek.   For the most part, I think it did a good job of showing a different view of the Trek universe and it believably fit in.  But I feel like if Ron Moore had his way, it would have been as bleak as Battlestar Galactica, which most definitely would not have worked.  

I thought it painted by far the most interesting picture of the quadrant, the Federation and Starfleet. Those areas/concepts felt really fleshed out in DS9 in a way they never did in the other shows IMO because so much revolved around the politics of it.

I also like the dark, edgy bits because they were contrasted with optimistic, fun stuff too. Like I don't know why people are so against variety these days, a show that's unendingly bleak is nothing I'd ever want to rewatch, if you want syndication money give me something fun too. At the same time if nothing truly bad ever happens, the stakes don't feel as high, the characters often seem more shallow. Episodes like "In the pale moonlight" are so brilliant because they're outliers, shocking, taking a turn the viewer doesn't expect. It doesn't feel exciting anymore, only depressing, if you have nothing but episodes like that.

[John Potts]

On 9/5/2021 at 4:42 PM, starri said:

"Take Me Out to the Holosuite" is such a silly episode, and from a distance it's perhaps hard to understand why the show would interrupt the very heavy material of the Dominion War to do a comedy episode, but I love it so much

Odd, because I hate that episode! Maybe it's because I'm not a baseball fan, or because I don't like people who insist that they want to win and then when they lose go "Well, we were always going to lose anyway and see if we care!" OTOH, I do love Badda Bing, Badda Bang which never pretends it's anything other than a fun romp with (almost) no consequences, equally in the middle of the war.

[blueray]

I hate baseball, but I enjoy that episode lot. So many good quotes and moments. Mostly what comes out of Worf's mouth, but them "learning" the rules and how much fun Odo clearly was having when he got to throw people out of the game. The only one who is all about "winning" is Sisko, who kind of acts out of character in the episode. I was happy when the rest of the team was all behind Rom. They were going to all walk out based on Sisko treated him. In then end though Sisko learns his lesson and does care about beating the Vulcan anymore. 

[wanderingstar]

On 9/5/2021 at 11:42 AM, starri said:

"Take Me Out to the Holosuite" is such a silly episode, and from a distance it's perhaps hard to understand why the show would interrupt the very heavy material of the Dominion War to do a comedy episode, but I love it so much.  The cast was either legitimately having a good time, or giving it Oscar-level acting.

I adore that episode. It's the kind of thing only a show with a cast that knows each other really well can pull off.

I liked those Vic Fontaine episodes a lot more than I expected to. 

[Ailianna]

"Take Me Out to the Holosuite" is one of my favorites, just because they are all just being themselves and trying to be nice to Sisko. But its also nice to be reminded of the less nice things, like the feud between Sisko and the Vulcan captain. And I'd still like to try Scotch whiskey flavored gum.

[Hiyo]

So strange seeing the "real" Gowron...

 

[Ailianna]

26 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Camille Saviola who played Kai Opaka on Star Trek DS9 has died.   It was only 4 episodes but I’d was still a pivotal roll on the show.  

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/people.com/tv/star-trek-actress-camille-saviola-dead-at-71/%3famp=true

I agree it was pivotal, and she was often referred to even when she didn't appear in those episodes. I thought she did a very good job as a religious/unifying figure who we could still agree was human (and ultimately flawed) but worthy of respect.

[blueray]

^I'm sorry to hear that. She did play a major role, especially in kira and Sisko's storylines. 

[KatWay]

I just recently watched Children of Time again, and I really hate that episode. I can't believe it was well received at the time and still has fairly good ratings.

yes, 8000 people stop existing after they leave but they were only there due to a weird time glitch in the first place. And sure I feel for the over the top happy paradise-like colony where people harvest together and sing kumbayah but I mean, did we forget the alpha quadrant is the brink of WAR? and you're gonna take out the Emissary AND the only Changeling on the side of the Federation? fuck Star Fleet, if there's adorable kids here that should or should not exist?

also them guilt-tripping O'Brian into ABANDONING his wife and their two young children on DS9...I lost a lot of respect for him when he just agreed to stay. And screw Jake or Alexander, we'll make new families here! Especially after seeing what lengths Jake went to to save his father in The Visitor, changing an otherwise nice enough future, guess your dad is more like eh, you're an adult, you'll be fine. Also Kira, it's been nice knowing ya. Nobody aside from Odo really seemed to care that much about the fact that she was dead if they stuck around.

I thought everyone acted ridiculously out of character. I could see Jadzia wanting to stay cause all her closest friends were there anyway, also Worf cause he didn't care that much about poor Alexander I guess, but everyone else? and again, remember the Dominion??

[Hiyo]

I agree with everything you said above.

"Oh no, the people who should have never existed in the first place will now never exist for realz this time!"

[starri]

I can't believe today is the show's 29th Anniversary.  I feel so terribly, terribly old.

[Maverick]

 Just pop off to a garden cave in the middle of an asteroid, have an apple and outwit an old enemy and you'll be good as new.  

[John Potts]

 

5 hours ago, Maverick said:

Just pop off to a garden cave in the middle of an asteroid, have an apple and outwit an old enemy and you'll be good as new.

But don't fall through any temporal wormholes. You might find yourself having to deal with your now feral older daughter or meeting a colony of your descendants who then cease to exist due to Timey-Wimey shenanigans.

[starri]

Louise Fletcher has gone to the Celestial Temple.

[Anduin]

9 minutes ago, starri said:

Louise Fletcher has gone to the Celestial Temple.

She was such a great villain. Probably, like many screen villains, pretty nice in real life.

[wanderingstar]

Aw, rest in peace, Adami Winn.

[Ailianna]

I've always heard that she was a lovely and generous person. 

I'm getting to the point that posts here make me worry about the cast, as no one posts about the episodes. Sadly, this time it happened again.

[KatWay]

On 9/24/2022 at 5:02 AM, Anduin said:

She was such a great villain. Probably, like many screen villains, pretty nice in real life.

her Kai Winn was a great character, one of the ones I always point out when I talk about how nuanced DS9 is. She's so great because she's not a cartoon style I'll kill you all type villain, she can almost seem reasonable at times, and she's very "normal" in a way, not a crazy psychopath - just a petty, vindictive person, one we might know in real life, but who comes into power and wreaks havoc not because that's her deliberate intention but because she's just weak and constantly prioritises the wrong things. She's almost scarier than others because she seems like she could be reasonable, sometimes she even is, but she's just not a good person on a fundamental level.

Louise Fletcher did an amazing job as her, one of the best actors on the show I would argue. RIP.

Edited September 25, 2022 by KatWay

[wanderingstar]

1 hour ago, KatWay said:

She's almost scarier than others

Yes, every time she addressed someone as "child," it was terrifying. 

[akiss]

1 hour ago, KatWay said:

her Kai Winn was a great character, one of the ones I always point out when I talk about how nuanced DS9 is. She's so great because she's not a cartoon style I'll kill you all type villain, she can almost seem reasonable at times, and she's very "normal" in a way, not a crazy psychopath - just a petty, vindictive person, one we might know in real life, but who comes into power and wreaks havoc not because that's her deliberate intention but because she's just weak and constantly prioritises the wrong things. She's almost scarier than others because she seems like she could be reasonable, sometimes she even is, but she's just not a good person on a fundamental level.

Louise Fletcher did an amazing job as her, one of the best actors on the show I would argue. RIP.

If I could like this post a thousand times I would. 

[Cattoy]

Kai Winn worked as a character because of Louise Fletcher. With someone less talented, she could easily have been an over-the-top character. I believe the only reason she became a recurring character was because of Fletcher's portrayal.

[Lugal]

Renegade Cut did a video a few months ago how Kai Winn is the best villain in Star Trek.

[starri]

8 hours ago, KatWay said:

Louise Fletcher did an amazing job as her, one of the best actors on the show I would argue. RIP.

There's a reason that when it came time for Bajor to negotiate with the Dominion, it was the Kai and not the First Minister who represented the former.

Plus, her scene with Kira, where she points out that the Resistance fighters were arrogant in thinking they were the only ones who fought back, when she had been imprisoned and beaten for teaching about the Prophets.  It's just a great scene between two good actors, and it's made even better because honestly, Winn is right.

[Ailianna]

She is right, but she is also self-righteous, which undercuts her message and is very consistent with her character. Let all do what they can, and let no one judge another's best efforts. Resistance comes in many forms and all have the potential to make change.

[wanderingstar]

Celebrate the End of Baseball Season with the Niners on 'Deep Space Nine'

[Fellaway]

14 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

Celebrate the End of Baseball Season with the Niners on 'Deep Space Nine'

I love that episode, even though I have zero interest in baseball. But, of course, that wasn't what it was really about. Such a welcome "the gang's all here" and having fun episode before the end.

I've always coveted that baseball they all signed. Wonder whose hands that ended up in after the show ended.

[blueray]

I am a fan of the 7th Rule (Cirroc youtube channel)  they are reviewing every episode of DS9. Anyhow, during the baseball episode, it was asked who has it. Apparently Cirroc doesn't know either. I feel like that prop would be worth a lot. 

[starri]

Prepare to feel ancient:

"Emissary" debuted 30 years ago today.

30 years on, I still get a little emotional when the Prophet who looks like Jennifer Sisko figures out what "die" means.

[wanderingstar]

1 hour ago, starri said:

Prepare to feel ancient:

"Emissary" debuted 30 years ago today.

30 years on, I still get a little emotional when the Prophet who looks like Jennifer Sisko figures out what "die" means.

I remember being so captivated by that episode when I first watched it. Even all these years later, I still am.

[Prevailing Wind]

Paramount owns PlutoTV (streamer) and they have an entire channel devoted to DS9 - it's streaming 24/7.  (I'm pretty sure this just started in the new year.) They've been showing TNG forever on its own channel, but lately, they interrupt with a TOS cycle.

There are chunks of DS9 episodes I've missed because, y'know, bedtime, but I'm almost done. It's weird though - what eps I miss, I pick up some during the next cycle, so I'm not really seeing them chronologically.  Like, oh, yeah - Eddington's a traitor and the next cycle - wait, don't they know Eddington's a traitor?

Lwaxana being pregnant is just stupid. Didn't Julian determine in "Fascination" that she had some menopausal syndrome that went haywire making everybody fall in love with everybody else?

What I don't understand - DS9 is like a truck stop in space. Random strangers stop by in their space ships. WHY the hell doesn't Quark have a souvenir shop selling replicas of the wormhole to tourists & "truckers" to take home to their families?  Some businessman he is.

 

[starri]

1 hour ago, Prevailing Wind said:

 

Lwaxana being pregnant is just stupid. Didn't Julian determine in "Fascination" that she had some menopausal syndrome that went haywire making everybody fall in love with everybody else?

As stupid as it is, the Lwaxana half of that episode is actually the good part.

[Prevailing Wind]

I was watching an old "Wild, Wild West." A flying saucer was involved. A woman painted green claimed she was from Venus.  Her name was Morn. Hahahaha.  She only had one stomach, though, as she was really a human participating in a scam.

[ajsnaves]

In anticipation of starting the DS9 episodes of The Greatest Generation, I started a rewatch today. I never noticed there was no Wormhole in the opening credits of the first episode.  Enjoyed it just as much as I did the first time 30 years ago.

[Fool to cry]

 

 

[Prevailing Wind]

I just re-watched "Trials and Tribble-ations."  I'm still amazed at the seamless integration of the TOS scenes with the new DS9 scenes - especially the bar fight.

[MaryMitch]

17 hours ago, Prevailing Wind said:

I just re-watched "Trials and Tribble-ations."  I'm still amazed at the seamless integration of the TOS scenes with the new DS9 scenes - especially the bar fight.

One of my favorite Star Trek episodes!  Here's a good Wiki article about how the episode was conceived and produced:

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Trials_and_Tribble-ations_(episode)#Background_information

[wanderingstar]

I adore Trials and Tribble-ations. It's clever and fun and pays lovely homage to the original series. And seeing the DS9 crew dressed in "classic 23rd century designs" is delightful. 

Edited July 14, 2023 by wanderingstar

[wanderingstar]

An audiobook version of A Stitch in Time - the novelization of Garak's life written by Andrew Robinson - will be released on August 1 - read, of course, by Robinson himself. Already pre-ordered!

[Prevailing Wind]

What I never understood was why Dr. Wyckoff thought it was SO important for Benny Russell to stop writing and destroy what he'd already written on the walls.

<ETA: I probably would've taken that paint-laden roller and run it from Wyckoff'sscalp on down to his toes.>

I do love the idea that Russell was the reality and DS9 the fiction...or was it the other way around?  I'm really intrigued by that.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Prevailing Wind

[SVNBob]

1 hour ago, Prevailing Wind said:

What I never understood was why Dr. Wyckoff thought it was SO important for Benny Russell to stop writing and destroy what he'd already written on the walls.

Wyckoff was an agent of the Pah-Wraiths.  Possibly even a Wraith himself, much in the way that anyone in Sisko's memories could be a Prophet.

Benny destroying his words on the walls would equal Sisko rejecting the Prophets.  That would lead to there being no more Emissary, and they wouldn't be able to send him to the Fire Caves when Dukat ascended.

[Prevailing Wind]

The two episodes I *really* hate are the ones with the genetically engineered quartet.  How the three of 'em can stand to be in the same room as Jack with his "hm? hm? hm?" - I don't understand. I'd have throttled him long ago.  Or at least yelled at STFU at him several times a day.  I don't even mind the Ferengi-centric episodes as much as the engineered mutants.

But any episode with Garak is a winner.

[Prevailing Wind]

I don't think they thoroughly thought through the idea of the Universal Translator.  It's embedded and when a Ferengi talks to a Hoo-man, each UT translates? Apparently, it takes into consideration accents, or else Ferengi would say, "Human" instead of "Hoo-man."  When they come across a species without a UT... then what?  I'm thinking of Little Green Men - once Rom fixed their UTs they could understand and speak to the 1940s Americans - because the UT already knew English.  So they come across a brand new species and the UT has to struggle at first but eventually figures out the new language.

But then why, when a Klingon says Q'Pla, the UT doesn't translate that? When Gowron says, "It's a good day to die" in Klingon, Worf has to translate for Sisko. That makes no sense, if Sisko can understand Klingon the rest of the time.

[Maverick]

 The UT is one of the things that exist to move the story along so they don't spend a third of the episode trying to figure out how to speak to every new alien they meet.  Enterprise actually had whole episodes and plot points in episodes deal with this use by making the UT new technology that was fallible and didn't work instantly.  But even by the end of that show they got away from addressing that and went right to normal conversation with new species.  Like many things in Trek--and sic fi in general--it works the way it works (or doesn't work the way it usually works) for the sake of the plot. 

[blueray]

Yesterday my husband and I were watching "Fall of Civilizations" it's a youtube channel (which covers historical empires and their falls). Anyhow we were watching the Carthage episode.

Throughout it, it was showing Hamibal (historical figure) . Anyhow I thought the actor looked like Bashir and my husband agreed. So throughout it we were joking that it was Bashir concering Italy. Until the end credits when it showed the casting only to list Alexander Sidig ;). So it just was him. He apparently played him in a movie in the early 2000s. But I guess sometimes you just find actors in unexpected spots.

[Prevailing Wind]

I'm watching "Image in the Sand" and there's a throwaway line I never noticed before.  Worf goes into Vic Fontaine's and wants him to "sing it" but Vic doesn't really want to. He tries to distract Worf - "That reminds me of a story Joey told the other day..." and Worf yells, "SING IT."  And Vic, in a perfect imitation of Joey Bishop's classic line, "Sonofagun, I think he means it."

I wonder, even back then when this originally aired, how many people knew of Joey Bishop and that "sonofagun" was his catch phrase? 

Now that I finally heard/noticed the line, it amused me greatly.

[MaryMitch]

I found a Frank Sinatra CD in my dad's truck. There are a lot of "Vic Fontaine" songs on it; I was singing along and my sister said "how do you know that song?"