SEAL Team - General Discussion

[preeya]

2 hours ago, nittanycougar said:

I really dislike Natalie and Jason as a couple.  She is a nag and I don't care about her back story with her marriage.

If you think Natalie is a nag, what is your opinion of Jason?

IMO, he is a self-centered JERK with no personality or social skills. He is 1000% SEAL and cares for nothing else.

[nittany cougar]

10 hours ago, preeya said:

If you think Natalie is a nag, what is your opinion of Jason?

IMO, he is a self-centered JERK with no personality or social skills. He is 1000% SEAL and cares for nothing else.

Jason can be a jerk, no doubt.  I don't see him lasting with Natalie, but I think one of the themes of the show is SEALS above all else.  I just don't like the Natalie character.  The actress is good, but the character doesn't fit with the rest of the show.

Edited March 13, 2020 by nittanycougar

[Raja]

8 hours ago, preeya said:

 

On the same subject, IMHO, I think Military "rules" are more stringent than police SWAT) rules.

Neither was prosecuted or dismissed from the service. They were both told the "elite" unit doesn't want you. Since Robert Ulrich played Street on the original show and was the only break out star Street both on TV and the Samuel L. Jackson  movie has plot armor. FNG on Bravo doesn't 

[Kel Varnsen]

On 3/7/2020 at 3:18 PM, Danielg342 said:

Not necessarily. Street got kicked off SWAT (for basically the same reasons as Vic did) to end S1 but the actor who portrayed him, Alex Russell, stayed on. Street then spent the first half of S2 working his way back on to the team, and he was successful.

So I don't see why SEAL Team couldn't do that too.

Speaking of characters they could get rid of, who exactly is Full Metal? He seems like he was newly added this season but I don't think he replaced anyone and they act like he has been part of the team forever. Plus he gets way less screen time than either the medic guy or the dog guy. There have been times in the season where his back was weirdly to the camera.

[dwmarch]

4 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Speaking of characters they could get rid of, who exactly is Full Metal? He seems like he was newly added this season but I don't think he replaced anyone and they act like he has been part of the team forever. Plus he gets way less screen time than either the medic guy or the dog guy. There have been times in the season where his back was weirdly to the camera.

The show has been weirdly cagey with him. I know at some point there was a joke made about Full Metal being his actual name and we didn't see him doing the NASCAR thing where the character names were spelled out in full on their helmets.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Natalie expects "all in" knowing intimately the SEAL way and really knowing Jason in particular.  And Jason is the bad guy.  

Ray was a fool for dealing with Vic at all.  It was insanity to approach him after that accusatory email.  He needed to forward that email to the board.  

Clay skates again and Lindell sees him as a protege.  Okaaaaaaay.

Cerberus remains the one person who has his (her) head screwed on straight.  Am I cray cray to have focused for much of the ep on how he was not quarantined?  This was just a training mission, right?  

Perhaps the most ludicrous moment of all was Lisa giving Clay advice on romance.  She told Clay not to chase the past, and she is still all about Sonny.  

 

 

[Kel Varnsen]

I had to laugh when Jason said he was 14 when he met Alana. If he was 14 what was she 8? I actually went back to an older post I made and there is an episode where you see Alana's gravestone, and she was like 35 when she died. And there is no way this show can convince me that Boreanaz is playing a guy in his mid 30's.

[Lunula]

Dear gawd, WTF was the testosterone-fest this week? First we have Jason proving his manliness with the NASCAR crap, then we have Sonny doing the same with the shooting stuff, the poor guard who finds Jason & Ray wandering around the base and instead of just telling the guy who they are they have to stand him down with manly looks, then we get 10 minutes of weight lifting, exercising and drinking. Seriously?
 

It still annoys me that they made the dog male when it’s a female dog. She kicks hella ass IRL and is a working police dog, yet I guess the boys on the show can’t handle having a female dog because it’s not macho enough? Grrr. (That’s from the dog)

 

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Bar none, and by far, this is the best ep I have watched.  Everything was within known parameters of the characters.  No surprises or weird choices made by any of them.  The firefight at the dam was, soup to nuts, satisfying.  Although the therapist would never have directly spelled things out as he did, there was not one off-note in any thing he said.  Much wisdom.  All of it consistent with the Jason depicted to date.    

I think my favorite piece was Lindell recommending Clay for a political career track.  YES.  It's a win all the way around, except a really good operator would go offline.  Yet, I share Lindell's assessment that Clay might could be a great political asset.

Blackburn overriding Mandy was ever so satisfying.  Goodness, how I loved that moment!

Cerberus saved their bacon.  Again.  You go, Dita!!!

Sonny effecting a Vulcan hand while taking his "oath" to Davis was a hoot.

What a great overall mix of menace and promise in this one.  

The end with Ray and his daughter was beautiful.  

So....the problem is TPTB have just proven they (David B.?) can create truly congruent and outstanding TV with a minimum of the fantastical.  This becomes the standard.

[dwmarch]

Well that was a pretty meh episode. Jason is pushing his girlfriend away because he wants to be Mr. UberSEAL. Yawn.

Why did they jump on the technical and start firing at the tank? The only reason I could see for them to do that was to draw the fire away from something else but I don't remember them calling that out. In tank warfare, if there are squishies crawling on your tank a fellow tank will engage in a practice called "scratch your buddy's back" which involves hosing the first tank with machine gun fire as tanks are impervious to it and squishies are not.

Clay is going to be an Admiral? He does bear a bit of resemblance to Captain Kirk but this seems sudden.

With the Ambassador, it was established that she was friendlier with one side in the conflict than she was with the other. Yes she died trying to make peace but it's easy enough to imagine one of the factions not seeing it that way (or seeing it in a way that would put them at a disadvantage).  There isn't much that Clay can say to redeem her. But in today's world of the rapidly evolving 24 hour news cycle, she's old news again in a few days anyhow.

Didn't Sonny agree that Lisa made a bad choice when she got into a bar fight not too long ago? Like a potentially career-ending bad choice? So what is Sonny doing tussling with a wannabe who was trying to impress some ladies?

[nittany cougar]

David Boreanaz has been stellar in his portrayal of Jason's mental health struggle.   I think he should submit this episode for Emmy consideration.

[lammykins]

On 3/6/2020 at 11:15 PM, dwmarch said:

I am the one who is always snarking "sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't ya think?" so I feel like this whole situation is partially my fault. Sorry Vic.

Jayne?  Is that you?

On 3/12/2020 at 4:33 PM, nittanycougar said:

I really dislike Natalie and Jason as a couple.  

Same here.  When he brushed her off as he was leaving, she should have waved goodbye...for good.  And I do not like all the angst stuff with Jason and the psychologist/psychiatrist.  Enough already.  Then again, Jason is my least favorite team member.

I know I'm in the minority here (very possibly the only one here), but I like the Mandy character.

P.S.  Full Metal showed up in the first or second season also, I believe.

 

[Raja]

On 3/18/2020 at 10:12 PM, dwmarch said:

 

Why did they jump on the technical and start firing at the tank? The only reason I could see for them to do that was to draw the fire away from something else but I don't remember them calling that out. In tank warfare, if there are squishies crawling on your tank a fellow tank will engage in a practice called "scratch your buddy's back" which involves hosing the first tank with machine gun fire as tanks are impervious to it and squishies are not.

 

Maybe they watch The Rat Patrol on H&I Saturday nights 😉 

 We called them crunchies in my day and one thing was the heavy machine gun was seen as a last ditch weapon which might break the vision blocks on a tank and the driver's hatch was open. In any case it may have been a Hollywood vismod but that wasn't a tank it was an infantry fighting vehicle with a big low velocity gun. While a 50 cal or equivalent wouldn't be ideal you would use it it was suppose to be able to penetrate the flanks of a Soviet BMP, and then hope the enemy crew reacts just like that one did. Stop to try to find the heavy weapon to engage it.

Considering how important that dam was supposed to be I expect the USAF was already up for close support before the tank arrived. And I was way ahead of the Master Chief in thinking that if a position was exposed the enemy would fire at it for the rules of engagement.

Edited March 22, 2020 by Raja

[DoctorK]

9 hours ago, Raja said:

wasn't a tank it was an infantry fighting vehicle with a big low velocity gun

Yeah, I noticed this and was surprised that the guys called it a tank, more so when one of the SEALs referred to its "six inches" of armor, not likely on an IFV.

Edited March 22, 2020 by DoctorK
deleting irrelevancy

[Raja]

19 minutes ago, DoctorK said:

Yeah, I noticed this and was surprised that the guys called it a tank, more so when one of the SEALs referred to its "six inches" of armor, not likely on an IFV.

That  6 inches line was the only thing that stopped me from claiming that the SEALs would call anything on a track with a turret a"tank" that many non armored force soldiers do as well as civilians. In any case with 6 inches of rolled homogeneous armor what tank could move it would be so heavy? The heaviest tanks carry a little over three inches but the sloop or angle of the armor makes it effectively thicker.

[DoctorK]

15 hours ago, Raja said:

call anything on a track with a turret a"tank"

True, watching national and local news, "journalists" don't even require a turret or tracks to call something a "tank". However six inches is not out of line for RHA on heavy WWII tanks, but in these days of Chobham composite armor and reactive armor it is a lot more complicated than it used to be. Plus a setup that defeats shaped charge penetration may fail against kinetic energy penetration, or vice versa. Some people spend their entire careers in this specialized field.

[Lunula]

On 3/19/2020 at 1:12 AM, dwmarch said:

Didn't Sonny agree that Lisa made a bad choice when she got into a bar fight not too long ago? Like a potentially career-ending bad choice? So what is Sonny doing tussling with a wannabe who was trying to impress some ladies?

Because Sonny is MAN and Lisa is a woman. You know. Testosterone. Penis. Manly whiskers. All that stuff makes it okay...at least on this show. 

[Raja]

58 minutes ago, Lunula said:

Because Sonny is MAN and Lisa is a woman. You know. Testosterone. Penis. Manly whiskers. All that stuff makes it okay...at least on this show. 

And commissioned officers generally don't survive such encounters while NCOs  can lose rank yet remain in service 

[Lonesome Rhodes]

More congruent reality?  Back-to-back eps?  Goodness.

The less said about the encounter with the Imperial Stormtrooper Jr. ROTC detachment which opened the ep, the better.

Every last misgiving Lindell has about Jason and Sonny was reinforced.  I have much sympathy, especially for Sonny getting dinged for challenging that stolen valor turd.  Unfortunately, for all his talk about the brotherhood, he has been the most disruptive element on the team.  He was never elected High Commissioner of Morale.  He is every bit as bad as any officer he hates for not "getting" the SEAL way. Log.  Eye.  Check it out, Sonny.

Jaaon is just stupid enough to not see that Lindell already did him a solid by allowing him to survive that thorough review/eval they so richly earned at the end of last season.  How does he reward the man?  Contempt not concealed from his men.  Lindell really has no choice now.  

That fight he picked at dinner with Natalie was dirty pool.  Then, Mr. Direct broke up with her without actually saying the words.  What a big man he is.  My hero.

It's TV, so I will be shocked if Clay does not somehow become the heir apparent to Jason who is stepping down.  He's earned that choice.  No worries.  But, he can't make that choice thinking he'll be able to buck the brass.  That man does not have it in him to stay silent on matters far above his pay grade.  That is a recipe for disaster.  I hope I am wrong and he is gone to STA-21.

I loved Ray with his family in those last hours.  There was no bad guy and there were two damn fine grown-ups handling the impossible.  The Navy way, indeed.  I am not ashamed to admit I shed a tear or three when Jameelah gave him her doll for protection and they shared that last hug.  We owe so damn much to so many who go through such agonies routinely.  

To be very clear, the service of Jason and Sonny, and all the others is tremendous.  I thank them all (the actual ones) from the bottom of my heart.  Yet, right is right.  None of this can be about them.  That kind of conceit gets other fine folks killed and leads to mission failures.  It is dangerous. 

  

[Sweet Tooth]

Let me just put this out there...

If someone yelled at my significant other to humiliate them in front of everyone, and then threw cake in my face, I WOULD NOT STAY FOR THEIR BBQ, no matter how good it was.

Brotherhood, blah blah blah. But Sonny only means people who act and do what he wants them to do. Attitude is from the top down, and Jason is the poster boy for childish behavior. Both of his kids have more maturity than he does. And we all know it came one hundred percent from their mom.

You know where your current path leads you: Jason Hayes.

Wow.

I don't know when they're going to right the Jason ship, but I'm not having a good time with him. No relationship is worth his stupid, childish antics.

 

 

[nittany cougar]

I like the friendship between Mandy and Lisa.  It was funny when Mandy asked Lisa why the strip club was in her contacts.

Jason acted like a jackass at dinner with Natalie but I  still laughed when he left Natalie the money and told her to pay for her salad and green beans.  They are a terrible match.  They don't get each other at all.

 

[dwmarch]

7 hours ago, nittanycougar said:

Jason acted like a jackass at dinner with Natalie but I  still laughed when he left Natalie the money and told her to pay for her salad and green beans.  They are a terrible match.  They don't get each other at all.

I was not impressed when Natalie repeated back to Jason what he had just said to her and he got mad at her for it. Why is it that Jason Hayes can calmly, rationally discuss how to take a team of his brothers through live-fire deathtraps full of angry terrorists but he can't handle discussing how his job interferes with his personal life? I was liking his leadership style when Lindell dressed him and Sonny down but Jason went off the rails by the end of the episode and I was back around to not liking him.

I'm not sure if this is just the randomness of the US Military but this show gives us a Navy SEAL going to an Air Force base to attend what sounds like an Army school (Armor, which I tend to associate with tanks). Can anyone shed some light on that?

[Raja]

12 minutes ago, dwmarch said:

 

I'm not sure if this is just the randomness of the US Military but this show gives us a Navy SEAL going to an Air Force base to attend what sounds like an Army school (Armor, which I tend to associate with tanks). Can anyone shed some light on that?

I haven't seen the episode yet but most bases stateside are now joint. Two nearby bases of different services have one commanding General/Admiral and staff like Joint Base Pearl Harbor(Navy)-Hickam(USAF).

The Armor and Cavalry Center used to be at Fort Knox Kentucky but moved in with the historic Infantry base at Fort Benning Georgia about 10 years ago. At that I'll leave it to someone who saw the episode.

[Raja]

Laughlin AFB were the USAF does basic pilot training for "advanced armory school". I don't know if it exist apart from the weapons school, maybe a course about the different armaments the USAF can drop in support of ground troops. Or worse for Sonny how to store them in the magazines safely 

[nittany cougar]

On 3/26/2020 at 6:56 PM, dwmarch said:

I was not impressed when Natalie repeated back to Jason what he had just said to her and he got mad at her for it. Why is it that Jason Hayes can calmly, rationally discuss how to take a team of his brothers through live-fire deathtraps full of angry terrorists but he can't handle discussing how his job interferes with his personal life? I was liking his leadership style when Lindell dressed him and Sonny down but Jason went off the rails by the end of the episode and I was back around to not liking him.

I think it's because he doesn't like people to see his weaknesses.  It's fine if he says his leg or hip hurts, or that his daughter's pissed at him, but he doesn't want anyone else telling him that.  When others say it he views it as criticism.

[mythoughtis]

There’s a lot of male eye candy in this show.   For some odd reason, I find Sonny and Ray more appealing than Clay or Jason. Exactly how often have we seen Sonny appear cleaned up in fresh fatigues as he was  for his dressing- down office visit? Did you know the actor is actually Irish-Canadian?  His Texas accent isn’t too bad when you consider that. 
I really find both Jason and Clays’ new girlfriends off-putting.  Jason's because she wants to change him into what she wants.  Clay’s  because she doesn’t give a crap about him other than using him for her own political agenda.  Hence her blasé attitude towards his 3 month deployment.  
Ray’s wife ( can never remember her name) seems the most realistic and supportive.  Her storyline is similar to characters on the shows Army Wives and The Unit. 

 

[JenMcSnark]

On 3/25/2020 at 8:57 PM, Lonesome Rhodes said:

More congruent reality?  Back-to-back eps?  Goodness.

The less said about the encounter with the Imperial Stormtrooper Jr. ROTC detachment which opened the ep, the better.

Every last misgiving Lindell has about Jason and Sonny was reinforced.  I have much sympathy, especially for Sonny getting dinged for challenging that stolen valor turd.  Unfortunately, for all his talk about the brotherhood, he has been the most disruptive element on the team.  He was never elected High Commissioner of Morale.  He is every bit as bad as any officer he hates for not "getting" the SEAL way. Log.  Eye.  Check it out, Sonny.

Jaaon is just stupid enough to not see that Lindell already did him a solid by allowing him to survive that thorough review/eval they so richly earned at the end of last season.  How does he reward the man?  Contempt not concealed from his men.  Lindell really has no choice now.  

That fight he picked at dinner with Natalie was dirty pool.  Then, Mr. Direct broke up with her without actually saying the words.  What a big man he is.  My hero.

It's TV, so I will be shocked if Clay does not somehow become the heir apparent to Jason who is stepping down.  He's earned that choice.  No worries.  But, he can't make that choice thinking he'll be able to buck the brass.  That man does not have it in him to stay silent on matters far above his pay grade.  That is a recipe for disaster.  I hope I am wrong and he is gone to STA-21.

I loved Ray with his family in those last hours.  There was no bad guy and there were two damn fine grown-ups handling the impossible.  The Navy way, indeed.  I am not ashamed to admit I shed a tear or three when Jameelah gave him her doll for protection and they shared that last hug.  We owe so damn much to so many who go through such agonies routinely.  

To be very clear, the service of Jason and Sonny, and all the others is tremendous.  I thank them all (the actual ones) from the bottom of my heart.  Yet, right is right.  None of this can be about them.  That kind of conceit gets other fine folks killed and leads to mission failures.  It is dangerous. 

  

I totally agree.  I love this family and the actors too.

15 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

There’s a lot of male eye candy in this show.   For some odd reason, I find Sonny and Ray more appealing than Clay or Jason. Exactly how often have we seen Sonny appear cleaned up in fresh fatigues as he was  for his dressing- down office visit? Did you know the actor is actually Irish-Canadian?  His Texas accent isn’t too bad when you consider that. 
I really find both Jason and Clays’ new girlfriends off-putting.  Jason's because she wants to change him into what she wants.  Clay’s  because she doesn’t give a crap about him other than using him for her own political agenda.  Hence her blasé attitude towards his 3 month deployment.  
Ray’s wife ( can never remember her name) seems the most realistic and supportive.  Her storyline is similar to characters on the shows Army Wives and The Unit. 

 

Agree with all this as well.  Jason's girlfriend sounded like his mother when they were out at dinner.  And Clay's just seems so sketchy to me. 

 

[Chas411]

I’m just hoping that Clays current girlfriend storyline will lead him back to Stella as I quite liked her and both of them together.

[ctlady]

On 3/29/2020 at 3:31 AM, JenMcSnark said:

There’s a lot of male eye candy in this show.   For some odd reason, I find Sonny and Ray more appealing than Clay or Jason.

Well I'm on Team Brock.  I know he's a background team member with only a couple of throw-away lines, but I dig his broody quietness.  Oh, and the dog helps too!

Sonny's personality turns me off too much to find any physical appeal to him.  I may be outnumbered, but I fist pumped when Lindell ripped him a new one and sent him back to Texas for training.  I'm constantly tired of his cutesy, kitschy names for everything - it was funny in the beginning, but now it's just annoying.  He's a loose cannon, too emotional and doesn't like being told that he's wrong.  He just needs to shut up and do his job

On 4/3/2020 at 9:24 AM, Chas411 said:

I’m just hoping that Clays current girlfriend storyline will lead him back to Stella as I quite liked her and both of them together.

No, no, 1,000 times no!   Ever since she broke up with Clay ON THE DAY he was taking off on a mission I had loathed her.  That was such piss poor timing to tell your boyfriend - who needs his head on straight with nothing messing with him so, you know, people won't die - that things aren't working out.  And now she comes crawling back.  Please - other than Ray, these guys really need to stay single because they suck at relationships - with Jason leading the pack

[JenMcSnark]

8 hours ago, ctlady said:

Well I'm on Team Brock.  I know he's a background team member with only a couple of throw-away lines, but I dig his broody quietness.  Oh, and the dog helps too!

Sonny's personality turns me off too much to find any physical appeal to him.  I may be outnumbered, but I fist pumped when Lindell ripped him a new one and sent him back to Texas for training.  I'm constantly tired of his cutesy, kitschy names for everything - it was funny in the beginning, but now it's just annoying.  He's a loose cannon, too emotional and doesn't like being told that he's wrong.  He just needs to shut up and do his job

No, no, 1,000 times no!   Ever since she broke up with Clay ON THE DAY he was taking off on a mission I had loathed her.  That was such piss poor timing to tell your boyfriend - who needs his head on straight with nothing messing with him so, you know, people won't die - that things aren't working out.  And now she comes crawling back.  Please - other than Ray, these guys really need to stay single because they suck at relationships - with Jason leading the pack

Give me a man with a dog (or cat) any day.  But Brock is good looking in his own right.  

Just FYI, you're not really quoting me...you somehow quoted my name, but the post dialog is not mine...  I only responded to the quoted dialog stating that I don't like either Jason's or Clay's new girlfriends very much.  

[CountryCrazy]

On 4/3/2020 at 9:24 AM, Chas411 said:

I’m just hoping that Clays current girlfriend storyline will lead him back to Stella as I quite liked her and both of them together.

Me too ! 

[nittany cougar]

It was good to see a new episode last night. It looks like they are splitting up Lisa and Sonny with other partners.  I liked  the storyline with Sonny's running into the ex-girlfriend.  I thought they had good chemistry.

 

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I enjoyed most everything about this ep, excepting Davis' obsession with shining a light on the inherent and well known impossibility of the drawdown process.  I'm thinking there's a Navy Cross in it for her if she proves the sun will come up.  She is a singularly obtuse officer.  Mandy is no help.  Blackburn needs to sit her down and explain that everyone already gets the grand farce underway.  The only real contribution she can make is to help minimize the damages as we withdraw from the field.  

Jason and the gang can moan all they want about being way overqualified/underused for this "mission."  Hard to imagine any other team which better earned such a hell.  Jason can further spew on about how Job One for him is to bring everyone home.  Well, Jace...stop griping that you aren't being sent on missions!  Accept the ease of this assignment and ride herd on them as you train to stay sharp. however unneeded thatrazor may be at this moment. 

I loved the quiet and joyless separation of Clay.  I don't trust TPTB to let that be the end of Clay as an operator.  The man made a decision and he refused to own it with his unit.  DLTDHYOTAONYWO.  If i had to bet, I'll go with him re-redeciding to stay with Bravo.  perhaps his anonymous letter will force him out of STA-21 before he even begins.

Percival.  Perfect.

 

  

 

[mojoween]

Is Clay leaving?  Please? Forever?

If Brock is Cerberus’s handler he is not only eye candy for this show, he is the best eye candy for every show everywhere.

[dwmarch]

There was a weird moment for me when they mentioned the Haqqani network. The bad guy on Homeland this season is a Taliban leader named Haqqani and the season revolves around a potential peace deal in Afghanistan. Now I'm imagining a crossover where Carrie is seconded to DEVGRU and her conversation with Mandy: "What do you mean you haven't slept with any of your sources? Or any of the guys on the team? Do you even CIA?"

I know they just did a surprise reversal like this just a few episodes ago but what if it turned out that instead of Clay being the anonymous letter writer, it was Ray instead? Or throw us a real curveball and have it be Sonny! He was no happier about it than anyone else and he's got a mad-on for bureaucrats right now so why not?

Speaking of Sonny, are his daddy issues resolved by the fact that Capt. Ransom (of the USS Equinox!) lovingly maintained that car as a stand-in for the paternal affection he could never express? I would have thought in Texas disputes like this are resolved by jousting with rock-salt-filled shotguns while carrying a 40. oz bottle of beer in the other hand. First one to get knocked off the horse or spill the beer loses and has to cook the other one a giant steak. And if they're going to continue this plot, that is exactly what I want to see... Percival.

[ctlady]

On 4/10/2020 at 8:01 PM, mojoween said:

If Brock is Cerberus’s handler he is not only eye candy for this show, he is the best eye candy for every show everywhere.

And we even got shirtless Brock and cuddling-on-the-couch-with-Cerberus Brock.   Have you seen Justin's imdb headshot?  He's absolutely gorgeous.  He and Dita have their own IG accounts too!

If I loathed snarky, SEAL-brothers-all-the-way Sonny, then angry-at-my-daddy Sonny just upped it several notches.  I can see angsty teens acting this way, but sheesh, Sonny (Percival) you're a grown man (though immature most of the time).  Punching the dinner table and lashing out was uncalled for.  If he still felt that way, then he shouldn't have stayed for dinner.  Just take the car and leave

I an SO effin' over Jason with his 'I am the master of the SEAL team universe whose sole mission in my life is to do the job, protect my men, bring my men home.  Anything outside of that is a distraction with which I can do without including children and relationships"  Jason, just because you torched your marriage, don't see your kids or can't even enjoy a dinner date because you must be SuperSealTeamLeader 24/7 doesn't mean your men can't balance their lives out.  And he thinks Clay's job offer is a distraction?  Jason, everything you went through emotionally and physically between your surgery, losing Alanna, ptsd, etc and your continuous failure to fully recognize them and balance those feelings ALONG with your SuperImportantSealLeader position is a huge distraction in my eyes.  Just his reaction when he walked in on the guys lounging around and ordered them out (he pretty much missed the dog when he kicked Brock) and then flipping the table when Clay told him he accepted his offer seriously pissed me off.  Who is he to think that Clay can't focus while on this mission because he has something else waiting for  him when he gets back?  How is that any different than Ray covering up his shoulder injury - which, to me, was worse on the job than Clay's job offer.

Honestly, it seems to me that Jason is acting out due to jealousy that his team members can balance home lives and even move onto other things whereas Jason's home life is a shack apartment with a box spring and mattress on the floor and fears leaving his SuperSealTeamLeader position for something else. 

Okay - I've blabbed enough now

ETA:   Did anyone else notice that Max Thieriot (Clay) directed this episode?

 

Edited April 16, 2020 by ctlady

[dwmarch]

Blackburn, good to see you again! Where have you been?

I appreciated Davis telling Ray off for jumping to conclusions about her and the CIA guy. They have a couple of meals together and have some running conferences about a situation that is not what it seemed and Ray just wants it to be salacious gossip (and/or passive-aggressive revenge on Sonny who isn't even there to appreciate it!). Go play with your doll, Ray. You're lucky Davis forgot that she actually outranks you.

I'm glad to see Sonny's plot going in a more positive direction. He's still arguing with his dad but in a way that shows he actually cares. I also adore his gal who isn't quite his girlfriend yet; she's a ray of sunshine and I am sure Sonny will do something to prove himself unworthy of her.

As for Clay and his education in the burdens of command, I am not sure what to make of that. War is hell and Clay already knows that. He's lost teammates, both in action and in training. He should know that sometimes even the best soldiers catch a bad break. As I recall from reading Black Hawk Down, soldiers at the base in Mogadishu used to laugh off mortar attacks but every once in a while one would land on somebody. Still, Clay doesn't regard his temporary teammates as disposable so that speaks to the depth of his character.

I also appreciated Jason apologizing to Clay for telling him off before he left. I wish Clay had pointed out that as much as Jason is entitled to his feelings he doesn't have to be such a dick about it but then again Jason is kind of a dick about everything so...

An uber-terrorist who could unite terrorists across the world despite being a nobody to the US was a plot in one of the lesser Tom Clancy novels and was just as realistic there. Osama bin Laden was the exception, not the rule.

[TV Anonymous]

Okay this comment is about the last two episodes.

What kind of leader is Hayes? Being hard with his team members because of their desire to advance their careers? He has no right whatsoever to do that, SEAL, Navy or just as a person in general. And it seems that he demands loyalty from the members to him, not to the chain of command. I may be wrong, but it also seems that he crosses the line sometime as an enlisted. As senior as he is, he is enlisted. He does not have command authority towards the other operators.

Are SEALs, or DEVGRU in particular, better than Infantry for open warfare, platoon-size tactics? This is a genuine question to all current / prior service here. As good as the operators are, I still think that Infantry are trained to do Infantry. Patrol, search and destroy, maneuver. Spenser arrived, and suddenly he became the god of warfare.

[Raja]

23 minutes ago, TV Anonymous said:

Okay this comment is about the last two episodes.

What kind of leader is Hayes? Being hard with his team members because of their desire to advance their careers? He has no right whatsoever to do that, SEAL, Navy or just as a person in general. And it seems that he demands loyalty from the members to him, not to the chain of command. I may be wrong, but it also seems that he crosses the line sometime as an enlisted. As senior as he is, he is enlisted. He does not have command authority towards the other operators.

Are SEALs, or DEVGRU in particular, better than Infantry for open warfare, platoon-size tactics? This is a genuine question to all current / prior service here. As good as the operators are, I still think that Infantry are trained to do Infantry. Patrol, search and destroy, maneuver. Spenser arrived, and suddenly he became the god of warfare.

Generally speaking if a front line combat unit or military police defending support units survive the initial shock and surprise their greater logistical support will eventually overwhelm the special forces 

[UnknownK]

Special forces are designed to sneak into a place, do what they have to do, and sneak out undetected. You notice all the silencers on their weapons, night vision equipment, and the fact they like to fight at night where they have the advantage of seeing and not being seen. They use drones to see where the enemy is and isn't and air strikes plus helicopter gunship support has saved their bacon on more then one occasion when outnumbered in a stand up fight. They also come in through the water or get air dropped to there they need to go so they can hit places with no roads or other easy ways to get in.

Man for man they are better trained and are better shots then most enlisted army units but fighting a superior in numbers trained force out in the open is suicide especially one with artillery, tanks and airpower.

Now against poorly trained jihadists with no air support or heavy weapons in a position that would take time to reinforce SF will ruin their day.

 

[TV Anonymous]

The reason I ask the question above (SEAL vs Infantry) is because in his book My American Journey, GEN Colin Powell wrote about his experience in Grenada. He noted specifically that the SEALs was wrongly assigned to the tasks more appropriate to Infantry. He further noted that the SEALs suffered in the battle because they were not Infantry. But it was Grenada, in 1982. I wonder if DEVGRU has evolved since then.

[Notwisconsin]

The series seems to be winding down. Sonny looks like he may consider retiring, Clay will get on the Admiral track program, and, well, it might just end...

[Raja]

19 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

The reason I ask the question above (SEAL vs Infantry) is because in his book My American Journey, GEN Colin Powell wrote about his experience in Grenada. He noted specifically that the SEALs was wrongly assigned to the tasks more appropriate to Infantry. He further noted that the SEALs suffered in the battle because they were not Infantry. But it was Grenada, in 1982. I wonder if DEVGRU has evolved since then.

Oh it has happened since modern special forces came about in WWII. Just watch the end of Darby's Rangers when the first Ranger battalion gets destroyed in Italy after their earlier combat raids proved the concept.

They had basically one fight in them and then survivors were assigned as replacements to the First Special Service force, the Devil's Brigade throughout the European campaign 

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Another pretty good ep.  The best moment for me was the detailed planning and execution for Clay taking out the three tangos.  Endlessly satisfying stuff.

The motivations and concerns of those on the ground during the drawdown, any drawdown, are inherently dramatic.  I just do not like the sheer naivete displayed by so many leads.  It was a genius move to transfer Davis' pursuit of the white whale who are committed to internal chaos to a pursuit of a new Shia-based international cartel.  THIS is something that would legitimately grab the full attention of DoD and the entirety of IC.

The Sonny arc was actually pretty well done, imo.  But, if George Strait shows up while they are riding horses (Pure Country), I will break things.  

 

[Lonesome Rhodes]

The show itself is headed for an honorable discharge if it likes.  Main characters have about had their fill and it is time for them to move on.  It may not have been an epiphany, but in that last convo b/t Ray and Jason, an awareness/clarity that the purity they find is the actual fight itself - not the brotherhood - is what they most crave.  They surely love each other and the USA.  Yet, it's the testing under fire that makes them fully alive.   The very great issue, which hit them both like a ton of bricks, is that their window of opportunity for such is all but shut.  Let's see how Jason processes, or not, this truth.  

Man, I was worried for Cerberus.  Here's hoping he gets out same as the maturing gang can jussssst ahead of a very bad outcome.

Having Clay on the wrong end of a talented sniper team was riveting irony.  Methinks the snipers were given some impossible abilities.  So be it.  It was great TV.

Mandy did good.  No, she did not have to know details of Samim's death.  I wonder if she will now become a problem for the folks on the ground.  What has happened to many USA friendlies when the USA quits a fight?  Lots of Samim's.  Well, Mandy knows darn well there will be a lot of it over there if/when the USA GTFO of that region altogether.  Will she suffer her "guilt" silently?

I do not understand why the QRF approached so deliberately and silently.  Havoc would have had full comms with them.  No urgency was impressed on that commander?  Really?

 

 

 

[dwmarch]

1 hour ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

The show itself is headed for an honorable discharge if it likes.  Main characters have about had their fill and it is time for them to move on.  It may not have been an epiphany, but in that last convo b/t Ray and Jason, an awareness/clarity that the purity they find is the actual fight itself - not the brotherhood - is what they most crave.  They surely love each other and the USA.  Yet, it's the testing under fire that makes them fully alive.   The very great issue, which hit them both like a ton of bricks, is that their window of opportunity for such is all but shut.  Let's see how Jason processes, or not, this truth.  

Man, I was worried for Cerberus.  Here's hoping he gets out same as the maturing gang can jussssst ahead of a very bad outcome.

Having Clay on the wrong end of a talented sniper team was riveting irony.  Methinks the snipers were given some impossible abilities.  So be it.  It was great TV.

Mandy did good.  No, she did not have to know details of Samim's death.  I wonder if she will now become a problem for the folks on the ground.  What has happened to many USA friendlies when the USA quits a fight?  Lots of Samim's.  Well, Mandy knows darn well there will be a lot of it over there if/when the USA GTFO of that region altogether.  Will she suffer her "guilt" silently?

I do not understand why the QRF approached so deliberately and silently.  Havoc would have had full comms with them.  No urgency was impressed on that commander?  Really?

My biggest like in this episode was all the love shown to Cerberus although it still annoys me when Jason interrupts Brock in the middle of training to call Cerberus over for some cuddles. Having said that, I did appreciate how Jason was initially clueless when Brock was talking about how Cerberus wasn't quite the warrior he used to be and how it might be time for him to hang it up. This goes right over Jason's head during the conversation but by the end of the episode he seems to get it.

I hope Ray does tell his daughter that he got hurt. She's not dumb, she knows he has a dangerous job. The intricacies of Ray's home life still don't do anything for me but there was good tension in this episode.

I liked that the mission is taking an emotional toll on Mandy. She's doing hard, thankless work that sometimes gets people killed.

For the QRF, I can only speculate that they were taking their time because that big APC did not have v-shaped belly armor on it. And Blackburn might have been yelling at them to hurry about but we just didn't see it.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

9 hours ago, dwmarch said:

For the QRF, I can only speculate that they were taking their time because that big APC did not have v-shaped belly armor on it. And Blackburn might have been yelling at them to hurry about but we just didn't see it.

I was more thinking the firing of weaponry in the general direction of the tangos to force them to withdraw.  The point of that engagement was not to kill them.  By then, it was alllll about getting Sidicki (sp?) back to base for interrogation.  

[UnknownK]

2 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

I was more thinking the firing of weaponry in the general direction of the tangos to force them to withdraw.  The point of that engagement was not to kill them.  By then, it was alllll about getting Sidicki (sp?) back to base for interrogation.  

The whole point of the enemy attack was to keep that prisoner from talking so shooting in their general direction would not help matters much. You either kill them or they will attack again when the convoy is moving maybe with another suicide car bomb.

The one thing that bothered me is those truck mounted Russian heavy machine guns would have gone straight through the walls of the house the SF were hiding behind.

[CoyoteBlue]

On 4/29/2020 at 10:12 PM, Lonesome Rhodes said:

Man, I was worried for Cerberus.  Here's hoping he gets out same as the maturing gang can jussssst ahead of a very bad outcome.

23 hours ago, dwmarch said:

My biggest like in this episode was all the love shown to Cerberus although it still annoys me when Jason interrupts Brock in the middle of training to call Cerberus over for some cuddles. Having said that, I did appreciate how Jason was initially clueless when Brock was talking about how Cerberus wasn't quite the warrior he used to be and how it might be time for him to hang it up. This goes right over Jason's head during the conversation but by the end of the episode he seems to get it.

I SWEAR TO GOD I WILL STOP WATCHING THE MINUTE CERBERUS IS OUT. No Cerberus or Brock? Pfft, that's all I'm watching for anymore. You want to use him as a ham-handed segue into Jason being too old and PTSDy for this? Fine. Better not follow-up on it, though.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Jason gets his reprieve (well, the show sure did, it was renewed).  Gonna be interesting to see who, if any, Bravo vets will be separated from the team now that another year of eps is needed.   Hard to see how Sonny chooses Texas at this point.