S03.E08: Chapter Forty-Three: Outbreak

[The Crazed Spruce]

Quote

Jughead and Archie head to Toledo to visit Jughead's mother and sister; Betty inches closer to uncovering the truth about Griffins & Gargoyles; Veronica and Cheryl take on Hiram, Hermoine and Penelope after more students fall victim to seizures.

[WhosThatGirl]

 And the last episode before a month long break! Also I’m wondering if we since we aren’t getting a Christmas episode as our mid season finale are they breaking up the year into two parts? Like next season will be the second half of this year? I know they had to do that because season one was super short due to being a mid season show but it would actually be smart to keep them in high school for as long as possible so breaking up the year would be smart. At least in my opinion.

 

The previouslys didn’t include any of Veronica’s scenes from last episode.

 

Hey the vixens are back and all them have seizures. Great! Also Kevin and Moose are doing fizzle rocks. But my guess is everyone has been posioned by fizzle rocks.

 

Aw yay! Betty isn’t really taking the drugs and she’s faking playing the game. Good. 

 

Aw Jellybean is adorable and aw the reunion with her and Jughead. I hope the show doesn’t ruin her. Also she likes cars like Betty! That makes my heart melt! It’s cute and adorable and I hope the show put it in there for a reason.

 

Choni gets a cute romantic scene but seriously..  does Toni have any other characteristics other than being her girlfriend? And oh hey they included a scene inviting her to move in that happened on the season 2 deleted scenes.

 

So Hiram and Hermione brought Veronica home and just threw her in her bed? Ha. And the answer is to move her to New York.

 

I still don’t know how I feel about Veggie. It’s probably going to happen. But aw. A nice moment where Veronica remembers that archie didn’t just bail for no reason.

 

Also I’m glad the show remembered that Jughead tried to call Gladys and she refused to let him go to Toledo.  I love that even jellybean looked sad about that. 

 

Also I know some people are excited for Gladys. I’m not. Even before she appeared on this show I have a dislike for parents who ditch their kids with the other  parent who is clearly not fit to care for them. Sorry. The only fun thing was Gladys thinking Jughead and Archie are a thing but also.. throwing that line in there might be seen as baiting just like when they had Joaquin kiss Archie.. for reasons? And yeah the Betty and Veronica kiss in the first episode.. for reasons? I know it’s supposed to be funny but sometimes it falls flat. But yeah.. kinda of interesting that people just automatically like Gladys upon seeing sneak peaks or her in the promo , even forgetting that she wouldn’t let Jughead stay with her in season one, let’s remember she left him with his dad who clearly has a drinking problem. Yeah. She doesn’t get a pass from me just because she’s all smiling in her first scene in this show. 

 

It’s stuff like this that makes me the most mad about Riverdale writers. I have decided that while I hate the main plots of this season I’m just going with it but the characters, especially the parents are ridiculous.The parents have done truly awful things just because they do a kind thing once in a while doesn’t negate the terrible choice they made. And I’m sorry but Gladys ditching Jughead was really bad. And yeah it’s a tv show but.. seriously. Even if it’s just her first scene, I fully expect she’s a lying liar who lies. I mean then again maybe this is the show choosing a realistic approach to the abusing parent relationships, the kids can’t break them because they aren’t easy to break. 

 

Also look who’s here. Alice. Greatest mom ever.  Yeah the sisters are sure as hell taking great care of Betty. Ugh. Was that Alices only scene? It was pointless. Actually no it wasnt. It proves her terribleness.

 

Ha. I love Betty telling faux stories of the king to trick Ethel. I’m also glad she did a little bit of explaining that the last 10 minutes of the last were episode were all due to the drug. I was wondering why they did all of the 10 minutes of last episode and parts that only viewers heard, like her voice over. Also.. RAS was trolling today, he posted a still of the moment when betty locks Ethel into the chambers to get her keys and tagged Cole, knowing full well people would think that this would be a Bughead moment of some kind. And I know it wouldn’t.

 

Also.. are we going to redeem Ethel? What? I can’t...she’s been pretty bad this season and I really thought they were going somewhere else with this. 

 

And now Riverdale High is bringing in hazmat suits to capture all the seizure induced kids. 

 

Okay the Lodges are definitely drugging everyone in Riverdale and now causing seizures. And now Penelope has one. Who cares about her? Love Cheryl not even having a reaction. Can all the kids get there with their parents at some point in this series?

 

Aw jellybean has a crush on archie. Jughead will never let that happen.

 

Love Gladys being like “what is this game?” Watch episodes 1-7 of this season Gladys. Also Gladys shut up about Jughead being the serpent king I don’t like it either but seriously, you left him with the last seperent king. What did you think was in his future?  Glad Jughead called her on that.

 

Penny is back? Ew. And yes jelly bean for the win. She’s adorable. 

 

Hey look Gladys holding penny Hostage. Can someone just kill her? Why all this talk?  Also I love that she has a switch blade just like Jughead did to penny as well. 

 

Oh, look, another Veronica and Hiram stand off. Where Veronica gives too much away. Hiram gives nothing but learns so much. Unless the show is telling us Hiram is the king and that Veronica should accept his hand. But also veronica needs to learn when to stop talking. Because it solves nothing and just gives her father more information.

 

Jughead talking about the game and Archie just looking like he has no idea what’s going on.  So this game is super important. So when the Lodges didn’t live in Riverdale, this game lay dormant? Because before the Lodges before the show seemed to imply that the Lodges were fine in New York. Was Hiram planning to start the game there? I would have assumed they would be returning back to riverdale but he got arrested.

 

Oh my god! Hey Veronica and Betty friendship! Everyone thought she was at the farm?!?! Why would they think she would go to the farm? Like I mean.. be worried about that as well as SOQM because there may be some dead babies that were thrown into a because of said people at the farm, like again, why would anyone think betty would willingly go there either? But also yay Cheryl was like “we have to get her out of there!” And Bettys like “it’s good, I’m cool” 

 

Also.. Veronica I don’t think your dad is just giving out fizzle rocks to patients of SOQM or prisoners, or giving out as a drug,  I think he’s putting it in the towns water and stuff. It explains why suddenly veronica is having a seizure, she was starting to sleep at the speakeasy, the Lodges probably have special water, same with Cheryl’s house. 

 

Okay. Did Gladys just let penny go? I mean this information was super important to know for jughead.  But I mean penny should be dead, I hope she is because why would let her go? .. super sad that the bromance is over. 

 

Love sister Woodson thinking she has the upper hand when she’s tied to a chair.  So the g and g game is a tool to help the girls? What? Um... sure.  So now the question is who was in the SOQM during the time when the adults were teenagers? Because the game could have started with them.

 

At least Betty decided to not just save herself but everyone else there as well.

 

Maple syrup on Mrs. Blossom. Also yup I told you the brothel was coming back into play.

 

Love all the crazy girls don’t wanna leave. “They give us candy and clothes”.Also okay now we know certain parts of SOQM look different and stuff.   Cheryl was in the hat conversion wing. I guess polly was in the pregnancy one. Which wing were Betty and Ethel at? Anyways. Don’t make it a quest. That’s not going to anyone and when their drug high from the fizzle rocks stops, well, is either Betty or Ethel going to be there to help them though it like Betty helped Ethel? It’s just going to be a bunch of freaked out girls in blue dresses and red cardigans wanting to find people to play g and g with and to find the king.

 

Aw Gladys called Fred!!!! Aw. This was the best moment.  Not so much about FP. I’m not a big fan of him right now.  Also not sure what to think of Gladys and FPS relationship. 

 

Also considering I think all of the Rotc guys might be high on fizzle rocks I don’t think Cheryl and Veronica want their help.  

 

Also Betty dressing up as the queen of g and g is ridiculous but kind if fun.  Also glad everyone got out. I was a little nervous Ethel was going to flip and be playing betty the whole time. With this show, you never know. Also if I’m being honest I really thought they were doing this all to kill off Ethel. Like.. nothing in the past episodes made me think she would be a helpful aide in bettys escape.

 

And now Archie has brown hair!!! People were speculation about this that it was for more of a flashback episode but.. it isn’t. And yeah they should have thought to do this earlier. Red hair is pretty noticeable. Also why can’t Fred go with you, Archie! Let him. Gladys said Fred is in danger too. Oh and he brought Vegas!!!! That made me tear up!!! Vegas!!!! Vegas was hurt by all of this. 

 

Do we think Hermione even knew about the brothel? I mean maybe. I don’t know. I never what she knows.

 

“I came to get you out of the sisters “ yeah your a little late and your still terrible, Alice.

 

So.. the towns under lockdown.  And Jughead and FP can’t get back in. I’m guessing Fred won’t able to either.

 

Also the previews for January.. hmmm I don’t know.

[marinaalexis]

All I got out of that ending is that next season: Riverdale meets the Purge. 😉

[Chaos Theory]

Did Archie keep his shirt on the whole episode? I don’t like it!

Betty can escape from a demented insane asylum. Archie gets held at knifepoint at his best friends mothers camp and needs to be rescued by his little sister and her slingshot. Think that over.  Although I am kinda shipping Archie and Jelly Bean now.   Archie needs someone who can rescue him on the reg and it looks like Veronica has gotten tired of it. 

Loved seeing Cheryl and Toni in bed together at the end.  

If Riverdale gets turned not Vice City would that raise the Parental Guidance rating?  

Quote

All I got out of that ending is that next season: Riverdale meets the Purge. 😉

Good thing Archie is heading in the opposite direction then.  

Edited December 13, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[WhosThatGirl]

2 minutes ago, marinaalexis said:

All I got out of that ending is that next season: Riverdale meets the Purge. 😉

Actually I think season 4 everyone is going to be a zombies.

Also I guess Hiram seeing the king means he isn’t the king, so maybe it’s Hermione?

Edited December 13, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[Advance35]

I LOVE the bad parents of Riverdale.  That eye play between Hermione and Penelope before they dispersed the PTA building.  For all of Hermione's wavering, at heart, she is a villainess.  I don't doubt for a second, she would turn on Hiram, if she thought he would ultimately lose or if he were to move with lethal intent towards Veronica (though she wouldn't care about him hurting anyone else) but otherwise she like Hiram, will ultimately, stop at nothing to triumph.  I didn't buy her crocodile tears.  She's not enthusiastic but she'll do what needs to be done.

I liked Veronica in this episode (if she has to be on the side of the angels) but on the schemer scale, this girl gets a 4-5.  She can be sly and we've seen her pull some underhanded tricks BUT she is nowhere near her parents.  From what we know, she spent her formative years with her parents and some severely hissable characters like Nick St. Claire.  Yet she isn't great at conniving.  How does that happen?   She's smart, feisty and frequently fiery but.........shakes head.  If Hiram and Hermione weren't her parents, this girl would come to a very sticky end.

He's a monster but I love Hiram's scenes with Veronica.  He simmers with malice and villainy but he still wants his daughter on HIS terms.  Veronica as ruthless and morally bankrupt as he is.  When he told her his plan and stalked towards her, towered over her commenting on her lack of pearls, I was honestly afraid for Veronica's safety until we saw her in the next scene.

Is Jughead's Mom supposed to be a heroine?  Are Archie and Jughead?  They just watched Jughead's Mom do god knows what to a human being.  Veronica reassess your crusade.  Everyone's parents are monstrous.  Your's are just good at being monstrous and getting rich at the same time.

That preview.  Did I see Reggie and Veronica?  Gulp.  I could ship it.  He has muscle tone that is a match for Archie.  He is also more street smart then both Veronica and Archie.

[WhosThatGirl]

Eh. I know I’m alone but sometimes the certain terribleness of the parents is bothersome. Especially lately when the show is making it seem like I’m watching a battle where the kids will never get a win. Like that kind of sucks sometimes.

 Also can’t we have another decent parent besides Fred? Fred is hardly on screen. Just one more is all I’m asking.

Also I don’t think Gladys is supposed to be a hero. She left Jughead. Also Jughead and Archie and us don’t know what she did to penny, she sent them away before she did anything.

I don’t know how I feel about Reggie and Veronica. I hope it happens organically and not just because the couple happens to be a ship in real life. Also.. it makes me feel sad about the Reggie and Archie friendship who so far have had a pretty decent one since season 2

Edited December 13, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[TobinAlbers]

1 minute ago, Advance35 said:

s Jughead's Mom supposed to be a heroine?  Are Archie and Jughead?  They just watched Jughead's Mom do god knows what to a human being.  Veronica reassess your crusade.  Everyone's parents are monstrous.  Your's are just good at being monstrous and getting rich at the same time.

I did chortle when Jughead and Archie walked away without a word of protest. Nobody likes you, Penny. And really? Penny just had a pick to Archie's throats and had Jughead beaten to within an inch of his life so can't blame them for letting Gladys do her thing- if she actually did her thing because...

Honestly, I think Gladys is shady as hell. We didn't see her do anything to Penny just supposedly her cleaning blood off her hands and Penny gone bye bye. Jughead' scar issue was a cover for them to talk alone. I think Gladys got turned or was in on it from jump OR is the 'man' in charge aka the Gargoyle King. Penny either turned her, relayed orders to Gladys from Hiram or got orders from Gladys for the next phase. Gladys manipulated the Jughead and Archie to break up and sent Archie up to 'allies' across the border alone. Bringing in Fred wasn't just about kindness in his knowing Archie was okay. This way Fred doesn't come looking for him because he hand delivered him to life on the run himself. Also notice how she hugged and kissed FP which seemed to surprise the hell out of him. She knew what she was sending them back to. What her exact role is we're gonna find out. 

Archie's plight as the misdirect for much of the town to Hiram's ultimate power move is pretty genius. He's had two major threats - Jughead and Fred- distracted. But damn, Hiram. You dosed your own daughter causing her to have a seizure. You are trash.

Gotta say I find this more engaging than the Black Hood saga. G&G is pulling in the entire cast in a more believable umbrella story. Although I do want sassy Alice back. 

[WhosThatGirl]

Eh. Alice sucks even if she’s sassy. She was never awesome. Anyways..

Yeah. I don’t like the real core of the g and g game. Because it’s a game and it’s ridiculous. But it does tie in to what last seasons Hiram arc was. The black Hood stuff was super dumb which was why they had to write a half ass season but this makes sense as it has roots down to last season. Jughead always assumed Hiram was up to no good(also why did Jughead say Archie was the only one who stood up to Hiram? Jughead stood up to more than Archie last season, in Fact Archie was like in love with him last season).But yeah Hiram has been hatching a plan for a while now.

But.. again.. were the Lodges always planning to return to Riverdale for this big grand plan? Weren’t they happy with their lives in ny before the arrest? I mean I know I’m asking for a lot to remember Season one but was that all a farce from Hermione  to act all lost without her husbands money?

Edited December 13, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[tennisgurl]

For a second, I thought that Riverdale was gonna be full on carpet bombed, District 12 style! I mean, if any show was that crazy, its clearly this one. But instead, we get Hiram running his own little fiefdom with his drugged out kids, and True Detective costume. 

A whole lot of enhanced interrogation this week, huh? Penelope probably got off easy being waterboarded by maple syrup (because Blossoms), as we all know what Cheryl can get up to when she gets REALLY pissed. Everyone on this show is kind of insane at this point, committing violent crimes, getting high on drug candy, and now everyone is stuck together in Lodge Land. This is gonna be the weirdest combination of 1984 and The Purge ever. 

 Gladys seems cool, but I dont see her as being any better of a parent than FP. At least FP offered to let Jughead stay with him while he was homeless. They both seem like they're basically alright with only seeing and being a parent to one of their (underage!) kids, and despite their protest to the contrary, they seem fine with their kids following in their criminal footsteps. 

Cheryl and Toni actually got a few scenes together! Its a Christmas miracle! And of course the Blossom family doctor is named Dr. Caligari . That is not surprising.

[WhosThatGirl]

Eh I’m over Choni. I don’t know why. But I’m kind of over them this season. Maybe because it really has just made Toni Cheryl’s girlfriend and nothing else.

Also I don’t know. I’m just meh.

[Advance35]

Quote

I did chortle when Jughead and Archie walked away without a word of protest. Nobody likes you, Penny. And really? Penny just had a pick to Archie's throats and had Jughead beaten to within an inch of his life so can't blame them for letting Gladys do her thing- if she actually did her thing because...

Meh. If they were in Riverdale, where the Lodges own the farce, they call law and order, I might agree.  But they are WAY beyond city limits.   I honestly think most of the parents are just as evil as Hiram, he's just better at it.

Though I will say, when Hiram hovered over her, saying "maybe you'll be wearing pearls again."  I got inappropriate vibes.

Quote

I don’t know how I feel about Reggie and Veronica. I hope it happens organically and not just because the couple happens to be a ship in real life. Also.. it makes me feel sad about the Reggie and Archie friendship who so far have had a pretty decent one since season 2

Archie was a little too easy pickings for Honey Trap Laura Lake or whatever her name was.  That is how it's always been in the comics, Archie and Reggie are more friends then enemies, until it comes to Veronica Lodge.  Veronica's compass tends to point to Archie but she's felt a certain pull to Reggie and I could buy it, since the live version looks like CM.

But for me, I can buy Reggie wanting her.  He's always had a reaction where Veronica's concerned.  Last year he was doing the equivalent of pulling her pigtails.

[jewel21]

This show is nuts. 

[WhosThatGirl]

I don’t know. I’m pretty meh on veronica and Archie and whoever they are with for the most part. Unless they randomly try to make Barchie a thing which to me feels like at this point it would be random.

Mybe Veronica and Archie do need different pairings. I’ve always felt it odd they were in love so fast with no real history. Bughead at least had friendship history and possible for Jughead a long lasting crush. Which I would kill for a flashback episode for little Jughead pining after Betty 

[memememe76]

I am liking the show more this season than last. I think it is due to the Core Four being very much separate from each other, kinda being forced to interact with the other characters. And I will be forever grateful for less Southside Serpents. 

I love how terrible the parents are. I do hope Fred never goes that way, even though I wonder if Luke would prefer to play someone less wholesome.

[WhosThatGirl]

I mean I’m assuming the core four will probably get some time together in the second half. I like the core four friendship. I’m alone there too.

[Lady Calypso]

This episode was pretty good. I enjoyed the majority of it. By now, I expect this show to be more campy and absurd than realistic or truly serious, so when Veronica and Cheryl were torturing Penelope with maple syrup or JB knocking Penny out with a slingshot, I went "Ok!" When Hiram was doing his melodramatic mustache twirling all episode, I was entertained for the first time. 

I've come to realize that this show only cares about the Core Four, Cheryl, Alice, and Hiram. Every other character is merely a supporting character to one of those seven characters, which is the big issue. Kevin and Toni don't really have much of a role anymore, so I'm not surprised Toni's role in this episode was really to support Cheryl's scenes. It's a shame, you know. They have so many characters to use more and the show refuses to. Hell, look at poor Fred, whose son has been in juvie or on the run and he's barely had any screentime. FP gets a bit more screentime than others, but I would say that he gets used less than Hiram and Alice. So FP is in the middle ground of not being quite in the Main Seven but also not just an invisible supporting character. 

None of these characters are morally good, so Gladys' role in the episode didn't surprise me in the least. Of course she's a shady character. Of course she has secrets. Of course she dismisses her role in abandoning Jughead. I'll admit I was still intrigued by her throughout the episode. I did chuckle at Gladys assuming Jughead and Archie were a couple. Was it random fan service? Well, duh. But it worked better than the random Betty/Veronica kiss from last season (?) or the random Joaquin/Archie kiss. Plus, KJ Apa had Archie continuously staring at Jughead all episode in adoration which was kind of entertaining to pay attention to. 

Gladys is someone who is very obviously hiding something and I'm sure Jughead will be super disappointed in her if she is working with Penny. I assume Penny is alive; I thought maybe she'd be dead, but why the secrecy if she was? I agree with the theory above that Gladys is involved in the G&G stuff and the Hiram stuff. 

Betty and Ethel's scenes were actually...good? Ok, I adore Shannon Purser and think she's been getting some really shit roles with horrible characters (see: Sierra Burgess and Ethel), but she is a talented actress. So she did make me feel for Ethel when she came off of her high, even when I've been irritated with Ethel's role this season. Again, I'm cool whenever they attempt to mix up the pairings. 

Oh man, the Archie/Fred stuff touched me, especially their goodbye scene. At least Fred got to see his son after at least a couple of months without contact. Luke and KJ owned those scenes, even if I thought Fred should have insisted on going with him. Archie isn't even an adult yet, man! You can tell him no and just go with him! 

27 minutes ago, memememe76 said:

I love how terrible the parents are. I do hope Fred never goes that way, even though I wonder if Luke would prefer to play someone less wholesome.

I also wonder if Luke would like to give Fred some darker layers, but I also like that Fred is the only (mostly) wholesome character. We need a genuinely good adult around to balance all the evil and shady characters. I don't want Fred to go dark, and at this rate, it would be so out of character. The only way Fred would turn bad is if Archie died. 

So, Veronica does get answers...but mostly because it's to set up the second half of the season. I appreciate we got some confirmations, so it's moving faster than the Black Hood storyline, as I assume these answers aren't fakeouts. Sure, we don't know who the King is but I think it was obvious it wasn't Hiram. With everyone saying that it could be Hiram, I never bought it. And now Riverdale is under quarantine with Jughead, FP, and Fred on the outskirts (but I assume it'll take them all of two minutes to sneak back in). Although it's better for Fred to be out of Riverdale. Go visit Mary, Fred! Go spend some time elsewhere for a while! 

I missed the whole Cheryl/Toni arc last season so I'm not really invested in them as a couple. I know what their story is, mind you, but it doesn't mean that I'm squealing at their scenes or anything. 

Still, a much better season than last season. I could actually finish this season!

[WhosThatGirl]

2 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

This episode was pretty good. I enjoyed the majority of it. By now, I expect this show to be more campy and absurd than realistic or truly serious, so when Veronica and Cheryl were torturing Penelope with maple syrup or JB knocking Penny out with a slingshot, I went "Ok!" When Hiram was doing his melodramatic mustache twirling all episode, I was entertained for the first time. 

I've come to realize that this show only cares about the Core Four, Cheryl, Alice, and Hiram. Every other character is merely a supporting character to one of those seven characters, which is the big issue. Kevin and Toni don't really have much of a role anymore, so I'm not surprised Toni's role in this episode was really to support Cheryl's scenes. It's a shame, you know. They have so many characters to use more and the show refuses to. Hell, look at poor Fred, whose son has been in juvie or on the run and he's barely had any screentime. FP gets a bit more screentime than others, but I would say that he gets used less than Hiram and Alice. So FP is in the middle ground of not being quite in the Main Seven but also not just an invisible supporting character. 

None of these characters are morally good, so Gladys' role in the episode didn't surprise me in the least. Of course she's a shady character. Of course she has secrets. Of course she dismisses her role in abandoning Jughead. I'll admit I was still intrigued by her throughout the episode. I did chuckle at Gladys assuming Jughead and Archie were a couple. Was it random fan service? Well, duh. But it worked better than the random Betty/Veronica kiss from last season (?) or the random Joaquin/Archie kiss. Plus, KJ Apa had Archie continuously staring at Jughead all episode in adoration which was kind of entertaining to pay attention to. 

Gladys is someone who is very obviously hiding something and I'm sure Jughead will be super disappointed in her if she is working with Penny. I assume Penny is alive; I thought maybe she'd be dead, but why the secrecy if she was? I agree with the theory above that Gladys is involved in the G&G stuff and the Hiram stuff. 

Betty and Ethel's scenes were actually...good? Ok, I adore Shannon Purser and think she's been getting some really shit roles with horrible characters (see: Sierra Burgess and Ethel), but she is a talented actress. So she did make me feel for Ethel when she came off of her high, even when I've been irritated with Ethel's role this season. Again, I'm cool whenever they attempt to mix up the pairings. 

Oh man, the Archie/Fred stuff touched me, especially their goodbye scene. At least Fred got to see his son after at least a couple of months without contact. Luke and KJ owned those scenes, even if I thought Fred should have insisted on going with him. Archie isn't even an adult yet, man! You can tell him no and just go with him! 

I also wonder if Luke would like to give Fred some darker layers, but I also like that Fred is the only (mostly) wholesome character. We need a genuinely good adult around to balance all the evil and shady characters. I don't want Fred to go dark, and at this rate, it would be so out of character. The only way Fred would turn bad is if Archie died. 

So, Veronica does get answers...but mostly because it's to set up the second half of the season. I appreciate we got some confirmations, so it's moving faster than the Black Hood storyline, as I assume these answers aren't fakeouts. Sure, we don't know who the King is but I think it was obvious it wasn't Hiram. With everyone saying that it could be Hiram, I never bought it. And now Riverdale is under quarantine with Jughead, FP, and Fred on the outskirts (but I assume it'll take them all of two minutes to sneak back in). Although it's better for Fred to be out of Riverdale. Go visit Mary, Fred! Go spend some time elsewhere for a while! 

I missed the whole Cheryl/Toni arc last season so I'm not really invested in them as a couple. I know what their story is, mind you, but it doesn't mean that I'm squealing at their scenes or anything. 

Still, a much better season than last season. I could actually finish this season!

Yeah, this is better than last season.and hopefully the ending won’t end up being bad. Season one will always be the best to me though.

Also yeah, this cast is very big and there are a lot of characters and it’s hard to keep up and the show keeps adding new ones.

I wonder sometimes if some of the parent actors choose to not be on sceen so much. I mean Luke is great but there’s only so much for his character that he can do. He has to be good. The only other good option who is a consistent on the show is Tom and he got the affair story. And yes Fred had that for a minute in season one but it seems like since Hiram/Mark came on the show, that’s only dropped in when need be that they remember that happened. All the other adults get to waver between being Personalities and whatever fits the plot. Except for Hiram and Penelope who are always evil. 

I mean the only pairing I get excited about is Bughead and a lot of what I like about them is stuff that has happened off screen. I love their off screen moments but I personally the stuff we don’t get to see, like the throwaway line last week about how Jughead told betty about the Ethel bunker kiss and also that as I said pre show jughead  has probably always liked betty but yet didn’t say anything because of her crush on archie. 

Also Choni was something I rooted for but as someone who was once upset last season with the lack of Bughead scenes because they were written terribly(and even the show

people know this now they’ve said it), the Choni stans are quite vicious. It kind of makes you not want to root for them.

Also like I said I’m unsure about Reggie and Veronica. I don’t know why. It’s not like I have strong feelings towards Varchie or anything. But we will see. 

[Snookums]

Quote

 

does Toni have any other characteristics other than being her girlfriend?

 

 

 

Does Toni have parents? 

I mean, they're obviously the kind of parents who are cool with her tending bar as a minor, living in a tent city and running around nearly getting killed by the various gangs in town, but hearing your daughter, who is sixteen years old, is moving in with Cheryl Blossom would have to be a bridge too far even in Riverdale: The Blossoms are still The Ruling Crazies and in this freaking hamlet of lunatics that is really saying something.

(At least Penelope and Cheryl know how to bring the right kind of campy wackadoodle vibe while playing it absolutely straight, though--that maple syrup scene was GOLD. Sticky, cheap, cut with corn syrup gold. Every time they let Nathalie Blott onscreen she just stands up, takes Madeline's hand and they both start cramming the scenery into their mouths like they're in a pie eating contest. Dollymop of a mother, indeed!)

Quote

I did chortle when Jughead and Archie walked away without a word of protest. Nobody likes you, Penny.

Hee hee hee! I do wonder how Penny got away with so much for so long: as a lawyer she may have been some kind of necessary evil but it's clear EVERYBODY hates her; she basically takes the kind of shit Hiram Lodge should be taking for messing so much with the lives and health of a bunch of minor teenagers. She keeps asking for it, though. She's that girl who acts tough and then every time she gets in a fight it lasts three seconds and she's on the ground crying. A freakin' tween with a slingshot took her poser ass down.

Okay, so, I do like the idea that Gladys is somehow Hiram's right hand in Cleveland, which is apparently less than a hundred miles away from New England in this bizarro world version of the US, and they are working double time to convince us that this entire scheme was years--hell, decades--in the making, and Hiram is an ever more deluded wannabe monarch who seemingly inherited this plot and is bringing it to fruition, but.

I have got to say, if all this is true? Hiram and his father before him have stumbled onto the most patient and forbearing group of greedy criminal morally bankrupt schemers in the history of malfeasance. Not only does Hiram have no problem screwing over every crime family in New York, he apparently has got the entire eeee-vil shadow underbelly of the whole Eastern Seaboard agreeing to wait around for over twenty friggin' years for this fever dream of Fizzle Rocks Dominion to pay off! 

This is NOT the kind of personality type who is usually cool with investing untold years and dollars into a plan that frankly doesn't seem to be able to pencil out the kind of returns that would make it ultimately worthwhile, whether it's financial or power-based. He's convinced Gladys to leave her son behind and haul her preteen daughter off to Cleveland to--what?--wait around in case somebody crucial to operations headed in a Cleveland-y direction while playing Ms. Fagin to every skid-row kid in town? He's got Penelope and Clifford, the SOQM, all the business owners and gangs in the South Side, random towns drained utterly of their menfolk to make the stuff UNDER A PRISON, who knows who else, all just going yeah, sure, okay, we've got nothing better to do while you trip balls over a stick monster? I mean, Hiram is a cool cat customer who is long practiced at denying reality to a fury-inducing level, but even he can't perform this juggling act forever.

Edited December 13, 2018 by Snookums

[WhosThatGirl]

The only backstory and parental type figure in Toni’s life was her grandfather last season, where we learned the serpents had that odd strange Native American backstory that was dropped in randomly (again, a lot of season 2 was like “Riverdale, go home, you’re drunk”, like this show is crazy but last season it was sometimes stupid).

It will be interesting if Gladys is involved in all this g and g stuff but I doubt she is. But who knows. At this point, almost all the parents have had their hand in some kind of murder or killing in some way, it wouldn’t surprise me if they make Jugheads mother evil that way as well.

Again Glydas and FP seemed super more cordial than I would have ever thought they would be. Then again.. I don’t know. I never know which fP we are getting in an episode.

I mean at this point when this series ends, I’m fully expecting everyone on this show to have a twin and the ones we have been watching are on our TVs are the evil ones.

Edited December 13, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[WhosThatGirl]

Ugh. A thing that really bugged was that it’s clear that Alice is probably already forgiven from sending betty to the sisters. I know I talked about it a bit in my first post but thinking about it today, bettys reaction to Alice being like “yeah I’m taking you home now” was just like “yeah, whatever, I’m already out but so are these other girls” and the show is doing exactly what I assumed they were going to do. Brush it aside. Like, what? And I get it. I guess there are more important things plot wise going on, but honestly.. what was that? Like, come on. Also Alice wasn’t coming to break her out because she feared for her safety. She was just coming to take her home because now the town is on lockdown. Alice was never at one point worried about Bettys safety at that place. If she had been, that first scene with her would have been her taking Betty home. As she said she sent her there to watch her while she was at the farm, but then she came back to Riverdale for the schcool bored meeting and didn’t choose to get Betty out of SOQM. 

I get that they needed to have a reason for Betty to get into the sisters. But why couldn’t they have had Betty do it undercover? I get that they wanted that big dramatic scene with Alice having her taken away but considering it looks like it’s a moot point, Betty has decided at least from the brief scene to brush it aside, what was the point? It seems like Betty has just decided to put this instance into her “things my mom does that cause me harm but I chose to not remember” column of her life. I mean... I don’t understand. I know when Cheryl first left SOQM we didn’t get a reaction from Penelope right away, but we all figured by process of deduction that Cheryl probably went to Toni’s trailer and was staying with her. Up until the musical episode when we got an answer. I’m taking a guess that Betty is just going to be like “yeah my mom sent me there, by what can I do?” It’s kind of ridiculous. I honestly don’t think they’re going to mention a resolution st all. Also based on the promo:

Spoiler

Especially given that the promo which has a very looking hot and heavy scene with Jughead and Betty in her bedroom. So.. Betty is still at the Cooper house. I mean I get it, she’s a child so she doesn’t have a choice, she has to live there, but I’m sssuming Alices role in Betty being sent to the sisters becomes a non factor.  

Edited December 13, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[Quark]

This show has gone from crazy to exceptionally crazy.

Love it.

[SourK]

I don't understand why Fred couldn't go with Archie. That's 100% the plan that would have made the most sense.

Also... I dislike the Ethel story still. And not just for meta reasons anymore. I feel like, more and more, this show is setting up a dynamic where the good-looking, powerful, popular kids are somehow entitled to every honour that can ever be bestowed on them, whether it's being president of the student council or the griffon queen or whatever, and the best anybody else can hope for is to gracefully accept a place as sidekick.

I'm also noticing the annoying pattern others have pointed out where any COC who's last name isn't Lodge gets bunted to the sidekick ranks along with the gay male character. It's making me feel weird.

15 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I wonder sometimes if some of the parent actors choose to not be on sceen so much. I mean Luke is great but there’s only so much for his character that he can do. He has to be good. The only other good option who is a consistent on the show is Tom and he got the affair story. And yes Fred had that for a minute in season one but it seems like since Hiram/Mark came on the show, that’s only dropped in when need be that they remember that happened. All the other adults get to waver between being Personalities and whatever fits the plot. Except for Hiram and Penelope who are always evil.

I feel like, if you're playing one of the adult characters on this show, you're probably looking at it as a regular paycheck where you sometimes get to do something fun. I don't think you'd be looking at it as a serious acting challenge, and you'd probably be frustrated if you were. However, in my gossip brain, I wonder what the actors on this show think after watching Sabrina -- which is in the same family of shows and has a similar sensibility, but did a lot better by its "adult" actors, at least in the first season.

[WhosThatGirl]

Yeah, it was dumb for Fred to just say fine after Archie said dad you can’t xome. I thought that’s why he was there! Didn’t Gladys say Fred is in danger in Riverdale too? Also like someone else said, Fred is the parents.

I thought this show did a much better job with the parents in the first season. Now it’s pretty much the Lodges on the parent side, and then scenes to build up the odd epic romance of Falice. 

Also I don’t know. I think the reason a lot of characters get pushed to the side is because there is too many characters. They can’t keep them all together but it’s definitely odd when we don’t get any scenes with them for like three episodes straight. It’s also odd that some of them do nothing anymore except to prop up another main character.

I can take or leave ethel, honestly. I

guess SP is a good actress, this is the only thing I’ve seen her in so.. it gets a meh for me. But Toni, I feel like sadly that character never had a chance. Her first episodes were pretty much a foil for Bughead and then we finally got some characteristics from her only to have her become a part of Choni and now she doesn’t do anything.  I mean so far this isn’t a real issue, it hasn’t take anything way or done something that’s made me shake my head, except laugh because all she does is stand by Cheryl but I’m curious of the show ever goes down the route of Cheryl challenging Jugheads leadership. I really thought that was what was going to happen this season, based on episode 1 and Jughead calling Cheryl a loose cannon. I thought she was going to challenge his leadership skills at some point. It could still happen. I’m curious what they the writers would have Toni do.

[Lady Calypso]

26 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Yeah, it was dumb for Fred to just say fine after Archie said dad you can’t xome. I thought that’s why he was there! Didn’t Gladys say Fred is in danger in Riverdale too? Also like someone else said, Fred is the parents.

I would have loved to see Archie/Fred bonding for a couple of episodes. Luke Perry already gets underused, unless he specifically asked for a lesser role, but I guess we can't have an actually good parent hanging around and having scenes with other characters....

I know Gladys said that anyone caught helping Archie, including being with him, would get them in trouble, so I can see why Archie is pushing Fred away. Although Fred can say "no, son, I'm going with you because I am the parent and Riverdale's kind of falling apart, anyway."

[WhosThatGirl]

3 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I would have loved to see Archie/Fred bonding for a couple of episodes. Luke Perry already gets underused, unless he specifically asked for a lesser role, but I guess we can't have an actually good parent hanging around and having scenes with other characters....

I know Gladys said that anyone caught helping Archie, including being with him, would get them in trouble, so I can see why Archie is pushing Fred away. Although Fred can say "no, son, I'm going with you because I am the parent and Riverdale's kind of falling apart, anyway."

Also I think the show likes the idea it an episode or two of Archie on his own and being all dark.

[PeekaBoo]

I just gotta stop saying that this is show is batship crazy after every episode.... Because it fucking is! I was laughing hysterically at the end.

REALLY! A town QUARANTINE?!?! What are you going to Hiram? Rule a town by barricading it? Don't you think the REST of the WORLD will notice?!?! OMFG! lol!

 My girl betty busting her ass out of the sisters, gotta give her credit! I soooo loved her! And Alice brushing it off and deciding its better to get her... You know Alice, your kid isn't like a thing taht you can move from place to place! So disappointing!

The Jones family reunion... It was conflicting. Loving the bro/sister reunion, loved that JB is full of SASS and has heart eyes for ARchie (now Why am I shipping this once JB is older and ARchie hopefully wiser? Shrugs). The whole Gladys and Jughead thing was a bit strained with reason. 

19 hours ago, TobinAlbers said:

I did chortle when Jughead and Archie walked away without a word of protest. Nobody likes you, Penny. And really? Penny just had a pick to Archie's throats and had Jughead beaten to within an inch of his life so can't blame them for letting Gladys do her thing- if she actually did her thing because...

Honestly, I think Gladys is shady as hell. We didn't see her do anything to Penny just supposedly her cleaning blood off her hands and Penny gone bye bye. Jughead' scar issue was a cover for them to talk alone. I think Gladys got turned or was in on it from jump OR is the 'man' in charge aka the Gargoyle King. Penny either turned her, relayed orders to Gladys from Hiram or got orders from Gladys for the next phase. Gladys manipulated the Jughead and Archie to break up and sent Archie up to 'allies' across the border alone. Bringing in Fred wasn't just about kindness in his knowing Archie was okay. This way Fred doesn't come looking for him because he hand delivered him to life on the run himself. Also notice how she hugged and kissed FP which seemed to surprise the hell out of him. She knew what she was sending them back to. What her exact role is we're gonna find out. 

 That theory^^^is quite pausible. I'm not convinced either that Penny is DEAD but I don't know where Gladys fits in all of this... I mean if that Laurie Lake tried to pull the moves on Archie so she could get her brothers (?) back, who knows if Hiram has something on her....  I'm surprised Gladys didn't react more to the fact that Jughead did become a serpent, a serpent KING too... I wonder if she found out what Jughead did to penny... And the whole vegetarian / being gay thing... Do the parents not know anything about their son?!?! Hmmm... 

There's something sexy about seeing peneloppe in that syrup... lol.

And is anyone else wondering whether Veronica WILL eventually take her place next to her dads?!?! 

This is sooo fucking crazy! 

[Snookums]

Quote

REALLY! A town QUARANTINE?!?! What are you going to Hiram? Rule a town by barricading it? Don't you think the REST of the WORLD will notice?!?! OMFG! lol!

Well, he's apparently besties with the Governor of whatever hellscape/state Riverdale is in, so I guess the state government is just going to issue some statement along the lines of "Everything's fine" and expect the Feds, the CDC, the ACLU and so on to just go okay, sure!

Again (and I know I'm harping but HONESTLY) if Hiram is so connected and crazy powerful, how the bleeding hell did he end up in prison in the first damn place??? Granted, that was in New York and thus another state, but how can he be a NYC capo/Hispanic leader if both he and Hermione grew up in this dinky little town in the middle of nowhere at the same time his family was apparently consolidating their position with every gangster in the USA and Canada?

[WhosThatGirl]

28 minutes ago, Snookums said:

Well, he's apparently besties with the Governor of whatever hellscape/state Riverdale is in, so I guess the state government is just going to issue some statement along the lines of "Everything's fine" and expect the Feds, the CDC, the ACLU and so on to just go okay, sure!

Again (and I know I'm harping but HONESTLY) if Hiram is so connected and crazy powerful, how the bleeding hell did he end up in prison in the first damn place??? Granted, that was in New York and thus another state, but how can he be a NYC capo/Hispanic leader if both he and Hermione grew up in this dinky little town in the middle of nowhere at the same time his family was apparently consolidating their position with every gangster in the USA and Canada?

Yeah and I’m wondering as I’ve mentioned in this episode forum a few time, was this Hermione and Hiram’s grand  plan all along? We’re they always planning to return to Riverdale and do this big grand game and take over? Because didn’t they both dislike it as teenagers? It’s... confusing. I mean don’t get me wrong Hiram wanting his very own town to play with and run, makes sense. But it doesn’t seem like this has always been the plan. It seems like they were happy with their lives in New York up until the arrest. So was prison a part of the plan? 

I mean.. I know I’m harping On a lot of stupid things because at this point I’ve let go and said the story quality isn’t good it’s ridiculous and can be fun but it isn’t great story telling. I mean I’m over that part now but there are some things I’m not able to get over with this show.

The one thing I’m refusing to let go of though is that Alice Cooper is terrible and always has been and the show won’t acknowledge it.  And that’s the thing. I can deal with the parents terrible if we’re allowed to acknowledge it and have the characters they were terrible acknowledge it too. Like Betty should be allowed to acknowledge what Alice just did to her was awful. Even Jughead got to mention his parents being terrible to him, his dad in the past and his mom this episode, I mean now they seem to have him ignore FPS terribleness but at least he’s allowed sometimes. Same with Veronica. For Betty, it seems like it’ll be a brush off. Because everything Alice has done to her in the past has been brushed off. Because Alice cries or sings a terrible song or something. And Betty has to feel guilty. For being a scared teenager. Whatever.

So yeah the show can have terrible parents but I don’t like that we’re just supposed to feel for the terrible characters when they haven’t earned it in my opinion.

Edited December 14, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[PeekaBoo]

3 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Yeah and I’m wondering as I’ve mentioned in this episode forum a few time, was this Hermione and Hiram’s grand  plan all along? We’re they always planning to return to Riverdale and do this big grand game and take over? Because didn’t they both dislike it as teenagers? It’s... confusing. I mean don’t get me wrong Hiram wanting his very own town to play with and run, makes sense. But it doesn’t seem like this has always been the plan. It seems like they were happy with their lives in New York up until the arrest. So was prison a part of the plan? 

 

3 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I mean.. I know I’m harping On a lot of stupid things because at this point I’ve let go and said the story quality isn’t good it’s ridiculous and can be fun but it isn’t great story telling. I mean I’m over that part now but there are some things I’m not able to get over with this show.

I agree with you with and I know a lot of things we have to ignore because of the forgotten storylines and plots... It's like we're meant to ignore/forget stuff that has been said in the past and go with what's happening right now.
What I think is weird is that Hiram, who's like what mid 40s, managed to build up this empire in the space of like what 20 years? I'm no expert on mafia-ism but doesn't it usually take a lot more time than that? And you'd think the Riverdale universe is just filled with mob families and what-nots... 

 

3 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

The one thing I’m refusing to let go of though is that Alice Cooper is terrible and always has been and the show won’t acknowledge it.  And that’s the thing. I can deal with the parents terrible if we’re allowed to acknowledge it and have the characters they were terrible acknowledge it too. Like Betty should be allowed to acknowledge what Alice just did to her was awful. Even Jughead got to mention his parents being terrible to him, his dad in the past and his mom this episode, I mean now they seem to have him ignore FPS terribleness but at least he’s allowed sometimes. Same with Veronica. For Betty, it seems like it’ll be a brush off. Because everything Alice has done to her in the past has been brushed off. Because Alice cries or sings a terrible song or something. And Betty has to feel guilty. For being a scared teenager. Whatever.

So yeah the show can have terrible parents but I don’t like that we’re just supposed to feel for the terrible characters when they haven’t earned it in my opinion.

I'm worried about that too. I mean, the whole sending betty to the sisters seems resolved already and i'm like, fuck NO! Alice NEEDS to answer to that! And it will be dissapointing if they're back to what they were! 

[thuganomics85]

I clearly play way too much Fallout, because as soon as the sirens began blaring at the end, I was waiting for Ron Perlman's voice to declare "War.  War never changes."  Because at this point, I would expect anything to possibly to happen on this show, and being a prequel for a nuclear apocalypse series would not be far-fetched at all.

But, of course, the real reason might be even better: basically, Hiram has created this entire scare because he wants Riverdale to be quarantined, so he can basically rule it.  He even is calling himself the king!  I hope he just goes all end, and when the show he returns, he's just walking (or being carried) around with a crown and cape, and has everyone calling him "Your Majesty."  Maybe he can even force someone to be the court jester!  Just go full-blown medieval on this joint, King Hiram!

So, Betty actually wasn't corrupted after-all and ends up turning Ethel, and has now sprung everyone from the Insane Loony Church Place.  Good for them, but what in the hell are they going to do now, since it sounds like half of the patients don't even have parents.

Fun seeing Veronica and Cheryl team-up, even if there wasn't as much sassiness, like I hoped.  But we did get interrogation by syrup, so I guess it all evens out?!

I really don't understand why Fred doesn't just go with Archie.  It's not like he really has anything left in Riverdale anymore (or is he still doing the whole construction thing?  I can barely remember, at this rate), so why wouldn't he want to be with his son?

Gladys/Gina Gershon was fun here.  I do wonder if more went down with her "talk" with Penny.  Jellybean was hilarious.  And a hell of a shot, apparently! 

Remember the biggest lesson this season, folks: table-top games are actually just fronts for mobsters to take over the world!  When someone offers you a roll of the dice, just say no!

[WhosThatGirl]

Yeah, Alice won’t be held account for what she did because she hasn’t been held accountable for anything she’s done to Betty. Betty just lets it happen. 

Ajyways. I guess Gladys was fine but I can’t forget that she ditched Jughead and is now complaining that he’s in his serpents. What did she think was going to happen when she left him there? 

[Snookums]

"Your dad's an alcoholic and emotionally unstable gang leader--you'll be fine, honey!"

[Al D]

FRED PLEASE COME AND TAKE VEGAS HOME WITH YOU; ARCHIE IS UNABLE TO LOOK AFTER HIMSELF LET ALONE A DOG

[WhosThatGirl]

Another thing I haven’t mentioned is that I’m all for the crazy of this show but the line writing is getting really bad this season. Like a lot of people said they were cringing when betty was saying The serpent was a warrior queen and of Veronica’s lines about Archie and his body, but Cheryl’s “I’m cocoa bananas for you!” To Toni was... something. I mean I know everyone loves Toni and Cheryl but come on.. that line was... a terrible line. Not to mention her “you mess with my squad you mess with me!” I mean I get it, being in love is allowing Cheryl to act like a giddy little girl but that line was so bad.  

Edited December 14, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[Dobian]

On 12/12/2018 at 7:35 PM, jewel21 said:

This show is nuts. 

Even by this show's standards it has just flown too far off the rails.

[methodwriter85]

I kind of love that Jughead's mom is shipping Jarchie. Honestly, I wouldn't mind the show going there.

[Daltrey]

Just watching now. Had to stop to cast an early vote for Jellybean calling Jughead "Kid Kerouac" the funniest line of the episode. Ok, back to it to see if I'm right, lol! 🤣

[SourK]

On 12/14/2018 at 12:51 AM, WhosThatGirl said:

Yeah and I’m wondering as I’ve mentioned in this episode forum a few time, was this Hermione and Hiram’s grand  plan all along? We’re they always planning to return to Riverdale and do this big grand game and take over? Because didn’t they both dislike it as teenagers? It’s... confusing. I mean don’t get me wrong Hiram wanting his very own town to play with and run, makes sense. But it doesn’t seem like this has always been the plan. It seems like they were happy with their lives in New York up until the arrest. So was prison a part of the plan? 

 

I guess if you can't hang with the mob in New York, you go back to the dinky town you grew up in and start bullying your neighbours' kids?

I feel like the show has landed in a weird place where it's not quite absurd enough for me to enjoy as comedy, but still too absurd for me to take it seriously? Like Mr. Lodge could be Mr. Burns if they wanted him to -- that weird rich man who keeps coming up with petty self-serving schemes, like driving the school newspaper out of business or whatever, and there wouldn't necessarily need to be a back story that explains why he's doing this. But they kind of did give him a story explaining why he's doing it, and it involves a bunch of mob-like stuff that's... not as funny to me as just having him randomly sabotage kids.

I don't know how to say it properly. I just feel like I would be okay with it if it were either more or less cartoonish, but the level of cartoonishness right now is not quite right.

[WhosThatGirl]

1 hour ago, SourK said:

I guess if you can't hang with the mob in New York, you go back to the dinky town you grew up in and start bullying your neighbours' kids?

I feel like the show has landed in a weird place where it's not quite absurd enough for me to enjoy as comedy, but still too absurd for me to take it seriously? Like Mr. Lodge could be Mr. Burns if they wanted him to -- that weird rich man who keeps coming up with petty self-serving schemes, like driving the school newspaper out of business or whatever, and there wouldn't necessarily need to be a back story that explains why he's doing this. But they kind of did give him a story explaining why he's doing it, and it involves a bunch of mob-like stuff that's... not as funny to me as just having him randomly sabotage kids.

I don't know how to say it properly. I just feel like I would be okay with it if it were either more or less cartoonish, but the level of cartoonishness right now is not quite right.

I mean you aren’t wrong. That’s a problem I have too. Like for a little bit I was angry that the show was going full crazy but then I tried to embrace it but then as you just said they do this thing where they don’t go all the way with the crazy.  This was a big problem last season, in fact it was kind of the biggest last season with what the big mystery was, the black Hood. We would have a fun crazy episode but then they would bring the black Hood into it and that was supposed to be serious. Same with Hiram last season as well. His plot wasn’t entertaining at all last year either. Except his odd behavior with all the teenage boys, like his vendetta against Jughead and his love affair with Archie and how he convinced Archie to cut his hand for his blood handshake for Hiram’s loyalty. That was hilarious.

And up until this episode i was accepting the crazy, it was stupid but as you pointed out again, they keep trying to bring in Hiram and his 

mob stuff and that isn’t entertaining at all, I agree with you. Nor is his stupid business stuff.  Although like I said up until this episode this season that was kind of a non factor. My guess is by part b, they may not mention it for a while again. 

I think bringing the parents more into the fold oF the show was kind of a mistake. I mean personally.. unless they were going to have the parents be cartoon like, it would be fun, but when we see more of the parents and more focus on them, it’s not fun at all. Perhaps that’s why Fred works in such small doses. He’s normal and stable and comes and goes but the rest of the parents are just annoying. Like honestly does anyone care about Hiram’s mob buisness or Hermione as a mayor? And I know some people like Falice but ugh. 

[Dobian]

The show is plenty crazy, it just takes itself too seriously.  The parents are all out of a bad soap opera.  So I agree that the tone comes off as weird when they show teenagers running nightclubs and gambling dens and being locked up in solitary in maximum security prisons...for juvenilles, and doing it with a straight face.  The show has no sense of irony or self-awareness.  Trying to draw a comparison, the movie Pleasantville was full of irony and self-awareness.

[WhosThatGirl]

17 minutes ago, Dobian said:

The show is plenty crazy, it just takes itself too seriously.  The parents are all out of a bad soap opera.  So I agree that the tone comes off as weird when they show teenagers running nightclubs and gambling dens and being locked up in solitary in maximum security prisons...for juvenilles, and doing it with a straight face.  The show has no sense of irony or self-awareness.  Trying to draw a comparison, the movie Pleasantville was full of irony and self-awareness.

I mean it is what it is. If it wants to be crazy, I wish it would be crazy all the time and not then try to be serious, because then it looks ridiculous and maybe that’s what my problem is.  Last season they had a hard time with that as I said, they tried really hard to be both. This season they do seem to just be crazy but at the same time we still get brief moments where they want to add in serious elements and it doesn’t work. They really should just decide to be out of this world crazy now. 

[21 Savage]

I love this show and it is completely off the wall. I thought I'd seen it all, but closing down the borders of the town and pretty much having a Purge like theme ahead is something I didn't really see coming. I am so hooked into the show now that I am along for this crazy ride. I just want to see how detectives Betty and Jughead get out of this one and how the parents try to throw fuel into the whole thing. 

[Insomnia]

I'm wondering if the show is a prequel of sorts for the comic book.

[redfence]

On 1/11/2019 at 7:22 PM, Insomnia said:

I'm wondering if the show is a prequel of sorts for the comic book.

No.

[WhosThatGirl]

Also aren’t there like different versions of the Archie comic book world that come out all the time? Different eras, sometimes they intercorprate supernatural, etc.

I really do think while the show takes certain aspects from the comics, they are two different Entities. There are some things that match, yes, but some things don’t. And I do think that’s where some people get hung up on certain aspects of the show. 

As someone who hasn’t read the comics but has seen things floating around(like little pages of certain books here and there online) I kind of love that the show is quite different from what I see of the comics. I would hate it if show Veronica was like comic book veronica. She’s awful. She’s mean and a terrible person. Betty is bad too but only because they don’t really flesh her out in the comics and she really is a pushover for Archie and Veronica in a bad way. It’s also hard to see how Veronica and Betty are best  friends in the comic book-in the show it’s an issue because they have no scenes together but still- but in the books Veronica is really really a terrible friend to Betty. If in the comic books Veronica wants something, it seems like it’s hers and damn everybody else. I’m glad the show hasn’t done that to her. But I don’t quite understand how comic book Betty and Veronica are such icons in the world of female friendship. To me they aren’t great friends. They don’t even seem to like each other from all the bits and pieces of the comics I have seen.

The show definitely needs to work on that too but at least Veronica has more of a heart on the show. And I can see she does cate for Betty. B

But that’s my whole thing. I think the show takes aspects of the comics and turns it into something different. But I don’t really think they have anything to do with other. I know the show has done a sort of prequel chapter like comic bookfor the show (possibly be more than one) but again I think that’s separate from the comic books itself.

Plus as I said the comics have so many different genres and eras that they go back and forth to and I think that’s why this show is lucky (or maybe unlucky, considering we have like 9 main characters for teens and then random supporting teen characters and then all the adults and I can’t tell you who is a main character or supporting there) that  they will never not have a pleather of new characters to write for. 

Wow. That got super long and I didn’t mean for it to. Sorry!

[redfence]

Quote

But I don’t quite understand how comic book Betty and Veronica are such icons in the world of female friendship. To me they aren’t great friends.

You're right, they're not. Archie Comics promotes the idea that they're friends because it gets them female empowerment points and sales. But, even though there are more stories where B and V are friends than enemies, the enemy stories have gone way too far to make their friendship credible anymore. Basically the comics make their money off selling Betty as the can-do-no-wrong heroine and Veronica as the can't-do-anything-right shithead who exists as a foil to B, not a friend or equal. Riverdale didn't entirely abandon that gimmick, but they softened it.

[WhosThatGirl]

1 minute ago, redfence said:

You're right, they're not. Archie Comics promotes the idea that they're friends because it gets them female empowerment points and sales. But, even though there are more stories where B and V are friends than enemies, the enemy stories have gone way too far to make their friendship credible anymore. Basically the comics make their money off selling Betty as the can-do-no-wrong heroine and Veronica as the can't-do-anything-right shithead who exists as a foil to B, not a friend or equal. Riverdale didn't entirely abandon that gimmick, but they softened it.

Yup. I think the show tries to be better but they need to show the friendship more. It helps that both LRand CM are trying to sell the friendship empowerment thing too and inhence show that they are friends so that works. The show should show it more. We don’t have many friendship female roles, especially any high school ones right now. The last one I can remember in the last few years is pretty little liars andbtgaf series did end up screwing with the friendship too. But I think comic book versions of these characters are awful from what I have seen, Archie is awful(he’s a bit better in the show but still suffers from dawson syndromes at times) and Betty are Veronica are one Dimensional in the worst ways. I see here a lot of people want Veronica to have more of her comic book Mean girl side and I don’t understand that. 

[Bort]

We have a topic for comic book discussion. Please continue it there.