Misfits - General Discussion

[David T. Cole]

Your Simon topic.

[David T. Cole]

Your S1 topic.

[Meredith Quill]

Now masquerading as Ramsay Snow on GoT ;)

[Meredith Quill]

S1 is my favourite season. All the original crew.

[flyngzebra]

Is he as hot there?

[Tara Ariano]

She's in the home stretch now! Discuss!

[Meredith Quill]

For me, no but that might be more because he's a whackjob in GoT...

[Athena]

I'm behind on GoT so I'm a bit sad to know that he will be a whackjob (then again, most characters on GoT are).

 

All things considered, Simon was not really considered the hot one until S2. I stopped watching the series when Iwan Rheon left the show.

[SnideAsides]

Oh, man. You are NOT going to like a lot of season five.

[Tara Ariano]

She sure didn't!

[Lindsey]

I have to say, the marathon diary has made me very happy with my decision to drop the show after season three.  I've never been one to watch a show after the entire original cast is gone.  It's not the premise that makes a show like this work (although it is an effective hook), it's well drawn characters.  Once it's obvious that the production team is just scrambling to fill out the requisite number of cast members with any available warm body, I'm out.

 

Leigh-Ann, have you watched the original Being Human?  It's British, it's readily available on a bunch of streaming services, and it may not have supernatural teenagers, but it's got plenty of supernatural young adults.  And angst.  So much angst.

[Leigh-Ann]

I made the mistake of watching one of Rheon's music videos. It took two back-to-back "Simon shower reveal" viewings to undo the damage.

[Leigh-Ann]

Glad I could be of service, Lindsey, and I agree wholeheartedly about the slapdash approach the show took toward character development.

 

I haven't watched the UK Being Human...yet! Thanks for the recommendation.

[Athena]

I made the mistake of watching one of Rheon's music videos. It took two back-to-back "Simon shower reveal" viewings to undo the damage.

 

Haha. I didn't know he had music videos, but I had seen videos of him performing before. Was it the "Bang! Bang!" one. I watched it now and yeah, it's not a good one.

 

I don't think I should watch the "Simon shower reveal" again. It'll just remind how they ended that storyline. Also, I hit replay on that episode enough after it aired.

[Athena]

A place to discuss particular episodes, arcs and moments from the show's complete run. Please remember this isn't a complete catch-all topic -- check out the forum for character topics and other places for show-related talk.

[Athena]

I mentioned the show on the "Once great shows that got so bad..." and @millahnna and @aradia22 offered some good replies.

 

I didn't think this was a great show objectively speaking, but I really enjoyed it and was even addicted to it in S2 and S3. A lot of this was because I grew attached to the character of Simon and then his relationship with Alisha. It was also a funny and different kind of show when it aired. I did not watch S4 or S5, and while I know what happens, I have little interest in every doing so. 

 

aradia22:

 

I think one of the great weaknesses of Misfits at the end was Rudy and Jess. There was a sweetness there but it ultimately felt too much like Simon and Alicia. Not the interracial relationship but the "we need to have an epic romantic relationship" on the team. I wish he could have just stayed with the nun. Also, when Misfits started it seemed to have higher stakes while at the end it seemed like they were struggling to make up drama.

 

Another reason I gave up on the show beyond my character attachments was that in S3, the show was starting to show signs of running out of ideas for drama. Howard Overman wrote almost every episode; he was the only writer in S1-2. This single writer formula works for a couple of series at most which is probably why he reset everyone's powers in S3. Maybe it was also the lack of Nathan, but S3 lacked spark compared to earlier seasons. Leigh-Ann's write up about it sums up my own view of it too. I didn't mind Rudy, but he didn't have Nathan's charisma. Overman wrote the epic romance and the Superhoodie storyline into a corner and the result left me dissatisfied. It didn't feel like he had any foresight or long term plan for the characters or decent exit strategies. This showed a lack of care to character development or growth. I started poking through some plot holes in S3.

 

Also, all five seasons apparently happened in the course of one year which is wild because it was clearly more than that on the show.

[Leigh-Ann]

If only Future Simon had traveled back even further than he did and really pressed that "meant to be superheroes" point with Past Simon. Imagine what kind of show that would've been.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Leigh-Ann

[aradia22]

Misfits is the show I hold up when I say that while I am probably more conservative than a lot of people, I have no issue with vulgarity if it's not vulgarity for the sake of vulgarity... which is just laziness. I think in the first 2... maybe even into the third season the vulgarity worked. It felt particularly essential to Nathan's character. But I think it didn't work quite as well at the end. It was necessary to give Joe Gilgun a Rudy 2 to play (which he did brilliantly, by the way) to ground Rudy in a way that Nathan never needed to be grounded. Alex's sexuality in many senses of the word also threw off the dynamic. Again, Curtis had so much more potential and Alex just felt like a weaker version of Curtis' power set that they still didn't explore well. The goofiness of him "sexing" the powers out of people just... yeah. No.

Edited June 11, 2014 by aradia22

[Leigh-Ann]

That whole Alex situation was so very '90s. Like, "we've run out of plot ideas...let's cast a blonde, Blue Steel-flashing, muscular lead." Gilgun did the best that he could with what he was given.

[Holmbo]

Is he as hot there?

He plays a crazy psychopath that likes flaying people. So not really.

[blueray]

I'm not sure if anyone will read this but I am currently binge watching this show on hulu (so good) and I'm almost done with season 2. And I noticed (spoiled myself) that most of the cast leave after next season. Is season 4 and 5 worth watching?

[blueray]

I just read your posts and I also am glad that I decided to read them before venturing into season 4. I feel as if I watched the show (which is the first 3 seasons). I don't get why they would continue if they couldn't get most of the cast back.

[Amelie06]

I'm a little ashamed to admit this but ... I actually didn't mind the last two series. I just finished a mini-marathon on the last two seasons, it's been almost two years since I've watched the first three series.  This may have affected my ability to just enjoy the remaining 2 series. I know they weren't up to the great first and second series, but it was still an enjoyable show. I didn't watch every episode of 4, I was just bored with the Curtis story and didn't really like the focus on Finn. I hated Alex at first and couldn't understand why he was there, but I eventually got used to him. What I didn't get used to was all the non-consensual sex that was going on. Did none of the writers notice that it was not ok for Alex to be grabbing people for sex? I liked the evil superheroes. I wish we could have had more than one episode of their turn to evil.

[John Potts]

I briefly thought this was a review by PTV's youngest correspondent (Tara's 7 year old niece, IIRC). Which would perhaps be hilarious, but would be really, really bad parenting!

[Enero]

I'm binge watching too. Already through S2 now mostly done with S3. I think the show started to lose steam in S3. The stories just weren't that intriguing. Rudy doesn't have the chemistry with the group as Nathan did. Plus Rudy was just downright annoying and not in a good way. I don't care for his character at all. Though Nathan could be annoying as hell too, he was so funny. The show as a whole was funnier with him on it. He really did bring something extra and interesting to the show.

Loved the Simon/Alisha relationship. So much chemistry there. And though Simon isn't what I'd consider a stud, his quiet intensity was hot.

Edited March 21, 2015 by Enero

[Athena]

I'm binge watching too. Already through S2 now mostly done with S3. I think the show started to lose steam in S3. The stories just weren't that intriguing. Rudy doesn't have the chemistry with the group as Nathan did. Plus Rudy was just downright annoying and not in a good way. I don't care for his character at all. Though Nathan could be annoying as hell too, he was so funny. The show as a whole was funnier with him on it. He really did bring something extra and interesting to the show.

Loved the Simon/Alisha relationship. So much chemistry there. And though Simon isn't what I'd consider a stud, his quiet intensity was hot.

 

Indeed, the show did lose steam in S3. I watched it live and while it was good because the original cast were good, you could tell the writers had run out of a lot of ideas.

 

I love that relationship. It was one of my favourites in recent years. Iwan Rheon played that role just right. Him and Antonia Thomas had way too much chemistry. It was great to watch.

[Enero]

Well I finished S3. I don't think I'm going to continue with the remaining seasons. With Simon, Alisha, Nathan and Kelly gone I really have no interest in the remaining group. Curtis was okay, but once he lost his power to rewind time he wasn't very interesting anymore.  The ending of S3 seemed like a fitting ending to the series though I know it is not.

 

I do have to wonder though, why Future Simon didn't just take Alisha and leave town to prevent what happened to her? Or at least tell her that after a certain point her and Present Simon would need to leave town in order for them both to survive. Or why not just stop the crazy guy in the red car from the start, which would've prevented quite a bit of carnage. Was the fear that the result would always be the same no matter where they are or what they do? I guess he wanted to stick as closely to the timeline as possible to ensure that he and Alisha fell in love again.  It's so sad that they'll be in this endless time loop though. :(

 

I think the show could've done more with all of their powers, specifically the time travel deal. So much could've been explored, but what they did explore in the first three seasons (especially the first two) was interesting and entertaining.

[rho]

 

I do have to wonder though, why Future Simon didn't just take Alisha and leave town to prevent what happened to her? Or at least tell her that after a certain point her and Present Simon would need to leave town in order for them both to survive. Or why not just stop the crazy guy in the red car from the start, which would've prevented quite a bit of carnage. Was the fear that the result would always be the same no matter where they are or what they do? I guess he wanted to stick as closely to the timeline as possible to ensure that he and Alisha fell in love again.  It's so sad that they'll be in this endless time loop though. :(

 

I think the show could've done more with all of their powers, specifically the time travel deal. So much could've been explored, but what they did explore in the first three seasons (especially the first two) was interesting and entertaining.

I'm binge watching the first three seasons again and still trying to piece it together. I can't tell if it's sloppy writing or placed there intentionally, but there are quite a few loop holes in Simon's time traveling story, nothing major but enough to incite a discussion. A part of me thinks they may have intended to continue the loop, changing it slightly over time so that he's continually going back in time creating alternate realities where each time her life is prolonged by the tiniest bit. The cast and producers have all expressed interest in ending the series on a feature film. There's no indication that it's happening but I get the impression they set something up to tie the series together just in case. Or maybe it was just sloppy writing :/

[Athena]

I'm binge watching the first three seasons again and still trying to piece it together. I can't tell if it's sloppy writing or placed there intentionally, but there are quite a few loop holes in Simon's time traveling story, nothing major but enough to incite a discussion.

 

I'm going with sloppy writing. The first two series of the show were only written by one man: Howard Overman. I was actually impressed with the way Overman alone wrote all the characters, dialogue, plot, etc. but when S3 started, he had a couple of other writers involved. By S3, the story was struggling a bit. As someone who watched the show almost from the beginning, I began to feel the show slowing down. Overman was writing himself in a corner. I do not believe he planned the Superhoodie storyline completely which is why there are holes. I've made my peace with it, but when the finale of S3 aired, I did get annoyed and quit the show.

[Enero]

I'm going with sloppy writing. The first two series of the show were only written by one man: Howard Overman. I was actually impressed with the way Overman alone wrote all the characters, dialogue, plot, etc. but when S3 started, he had a couple of other writers involved. By S3, the story was struggling a bit. As someone who watched the show almost from the beginning, I began to feel the show slowing down. Overman was writing himself in a corner. I do not believe he planned the Superhoodie storyline completely which is why there are holes. I've made my peace with it, but when the finale of S3 aired, I did get annoyed and quit the show.

 

I was looking at some old discussions about the show and someone mentioned that Overman stated in an interview that the show's budget got cut significantly at the end of S2. As a result a lot of scenes that could've explained the story progression were cut. Don't know if those scenes involved the Superhoodie storyline. But I do agree, whatever happened it doesn't seem like the full scope of that story was thought through.

[Enero]

It's interesting that apparently Howard Overman planned to make Simon a villian and kill him off by episode 5 of S1, more proof that the Superhoodie storyline wasn't thought through. However, Iwan did such an awesome job with the role that they decided to keep him on the show.

I always thought Simon was fascinating. He could be extremely creepy, but then came off so incredibly sympathetic and lonely. There were many times while watching S1 I just wanted to give him a hug. He looked like a little kid that was continuously being bullied and kicked in the chins.

I think out of all the characters he had the biggest metamorphosis. S3 Simon is very different from the Simon we saw in S1.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Enero

[akroll16]

I'm not sure if anyone is still around this forum but I just finished Season 3. (I'm stopping here since the cast changes for the next seasons) But to me is'nt the glaring obvious choice for Simon to go back to when the crazy Christian girl dies and save her? That way she wouldn't come back in the future and kill Alicia. Is that not a better option than living in a continous time loop?

[rho]

I'm not sure if anyone is still around this forum but I just finished Season 3. (I'm stopping here since the cast changes for the next seasons) But to me is'nt the glaring obvious choice for Simon to go back to when the crazy Christian girl dies and save her? That way she wouldn't come back in the future and kill Alicia. Is that not a better option than living in a continous time loop?

 

That's my take. I think he'll end up going back over and over again, saving her from one more death each time. At least that's how I explain those tiny inconsistencies to myself. Plus, the creators were planning on bringing them back for a movie so I imagine that is the only way to keep them alive for future storylines.

[atomationage]

I watched the first three seasons years ago.  It took me forever to watch season 4, and I don't think it was worth it.   I've started season 5, and the first episode was okay, but the second is all Rudy, but I think season 5 is better than season 4.   When Sheehan left the show, they tried to make Gilgun's Rudy into a similar character, but IMO, it never worked.  

 

Also, I think this show had the worst opening theme music of anything I've ever watched.

Edited March 20, 2016 by atomationage

[Coxfires]

I have been rewatching the first 3 seasons (never could get into 4 and 5 either) and even if 3 was a bit inferior to 1&2, this is still my personal favorite TV Show. I remember watching it live when it came out, and still feel that I haven't seen any other show that made me laugh, care and whose characters despite being extremes felt completely fresh and genuine to me.

The take they had on the powers was really interesting, having them originated in the people personalities and them not using it for the greater good but instead having to deal with them. 

The other major asset was the cast, chosen not because of their looks but their talent and how well they portrayed their characters. Even if the industry is slowly getting there, it is refreshing to see average people on screen who click instead of wooden pretty faces. I mean, none of them were totally ugly but I can't see any US show casting Lauren Socha, Joe Gilgun or even Iwan Rheon (even if GoT made him more popular with a polar opposite character) as leads. I loved these characters because they felt real and different. Yes, they were archetypes, but they weren't stereotypes, they all had a spin on their idiosyncrasies that raised us above the cliché we see so much on TV.

Quote

Also, I think this show had the worst opening theme music of anything I've ever watched.

Well, it all comes down to personal tastes but I love The Rapture and felt is suited the show to a T, so I have to disagree on this one. I loved the show's soundtrack, that wasn't based on the latest pop hit, or some kind of emo cover of it, but rather picked from the indie scene. I was personnally pleased to hear Blur, Ratatat, the Prodigy, Portishead, Joy Division, U.N.K.L.E, the Glitch Mob and other super talented artists with various styles and influences that were chosen because they suited to a scene or an emotion. and props to the composer of the original tunes that were fantastic too.

[Coxfires]

Simon was my favorite from the get go, far before the superhoodie plotline (not that I didn't like it), because Iwan Rheon was so good at portraying his loneliness and Simon's utter incapacity at communicating and blending in. He could make you feel just how painful daring to speak was for Simon, yet at the same time you could feel that he was craving for human interaction. S1 Simon had also a darker side that he lost a bit after superhoodie came into the mix, that I found made him even more interesting. Simon was an outcast, but he also was weird, a bit of a voyeur and a creep at times (that scene with Sally in the freezer...) His shyness prevented him to properly express his thoughts, and it would always come out wrong when he did.

I give all the props to Iwan for managing to make his character magnetic even when he didn't have a single word, proof that you can play an extremely introverted character without him being bland. Even as Future!Simon, he still was a man of few words but managed to convey the difference in self-confidence the character had acquiered. He truly is an amazing actor I'd like to see in many more movies or shows

Edited July 18, 2016 by Coxfires

[Cherdee]

Just re-watched the first two seasons and thought I'd come here to read the discussions. Too bad more people don't know about this great show. :(

[John Potts]

Have to say - I love the Britishness of this show (more specifically, its Channel 4-ness) for the way it is just so filthy. They're teenagers, they're screw ups and they're not interested in saving the world: most of the time, they just want to screw each other. Even the sex we see is pretty down & dirty - no soft focus here as we get masturbation jokes, Alisha's multiple near rapes and we even end the series with Nathan preaching about how teens are MEANT to be screw-ups! My only slight disappointment was they should (IMO) have had Simon become a supervillain following him killing Sally, but that may be a personal thing.

Edited February 13, 2017 by John Potts

[Bec]

I only watched this show because somebody on the Game of Thrones forum mentioned it, and I was curious whether Iwan Rheon really can play a totally different role from crazy sadistic bastard Ramsay. I have to say I am impressed, the guy really does have range.

Early on, I didn't think he was that different from Ramsay as Simon. Kinder and gentler, yes, but still kind of scary. Still had that air of "serial killer" to him. I wondered if people were exaggerating about how different his role is on this show and almost didn't stick around long enough to see him become seriously different in the second season. Early on, the differences were only subtle ones, but wow, after the big reveal, he didn't even remind me of Ramsay the slightest little bit.

On 4/19/2015 at 0:00 PM, Enero said:

apparently Howard Overman planned to make Simon a villian and kill him off by episode 5 of S1

That explains so much. The early part of his story seemed to point him towards going darkside. Then it was like all of a sudden the show stopped making him act creepy.

[blueray]

On 12/18/2016 at 1:28 PM, Cherdee said:

Just re-watched the first two seasons and thought I'd come here to read the discussions. Too bad more people don't know about this great show. :(

I had the same reaction when I discovered it on Hulu (I think it was). I just read somewhere that they might remake it with American actors. I hope not, I feel like it would lose something by doing that.

[festivus]

Oh Hell No they better not. Nathan was the funniest person I have ever seen on TV and he was a total dick. I mean I would literally (yes I mean literally like it's intended) fall off the couch laughing at him. I just don't think an American can pull off that level of funny dickishness.  That's a British thing. 

[John Potts]

On ‎19‎/‎06‎/‎2015 at 2:17 PM, akroll16 said:

But to me is'nt the glaring obvious choice for Simon to go back to when the crazy Christian girl dies and save her?

I got the impression that Simon had kept going back in time and no matter what he did, Alisha died. That does imply that he was prepared to sacrifice himself merely to grant her an extra few months, but maybe he just was that much in love.

(I gave up after Season 3 too!)

[blueray]

On 5/20/2017 at 6:33 AM, doram said:

Any word about the US edition? Because I would really  love to see some of the arcs expanded more. 

I heard that they were going to make a US one. I'm not sure how I feel about it. The first 2 seasons of this show was great and I gave up after watching season 3.

[John Potts]

9 hours ago, doram said:

I think the Superhoodie/Simon/Alisha time loop was supposed to be a 12 Monkeys (the movie) or  The Terminator (first movie) closed loop.

You can certainly see it that way, but I got the impression that Simon had made several attempts to save her and the one we saw was the most successful. Since they never really make it explicitly clear just how time travel worked, so long as Simon himself survived, he could make multiple attempts at saving her. In film terms, that makes it closer to Back to the Future than 12 Monkeys.

As for a US remake, I think it would go down about as well as the US version of Skins - the US version would get rid of anything that made the show distinctive and turn it into something bland and generic that gets cancelled before its first season was over.

[Coxfires]

Quote

As a matter of fact, we never got to see any of the Misfits really learn how to control their powers and use them.

Personnally, that is precisely what I liked in Misfits (the frist two seasons, that is), the fact that they didn't care about saving the world or that kind of stuff, but were more dealing with their abilities, while still leading their kinda screwed up lives. I liked the britishness of the show that was spinning every usual trope on its head and went ways that weren't totally previsible, but most of all, I loved how hilarious and irreverent it was. And I feel a remake would deteriorate it by trying to "fix" the show. Hate him or love him, but Nathan was a fantastic character. Kelly is the kind of girl that would never be cast/portrayed in a conventional US TV show. Curtis' break up with his first gf would have been handled differently, Nathan's ode to screw ups wouuld never make it. 

I agree that they changed Simon's personnality a bit from S1 to S2, but that wasn't such an issue. what was what what came after, starting S3, when the writing decreased in quality and lots of situations were rushed or episodes more stand-alone, when I felt that S1 and S2 tied all episodes together better, with consaquences of one early episode emerging bck in later ones.

I wouldn't want a US remake of it, I don't think the initial flavour could be found again.

[Doyounot]

On 2017-5-28 at 10:04 AM, doram said:

The US remake of Being Humans was at least as good as the original UK version and managed to pay homage and be its own story at the same time. I think like every successful adaptation, if it's made by talented people determined to do a good job, it will be successful. There are so many issues with the E4's Misfits that a remake would fix. 

The US being humans i thought was much better but then again i watched it first and gave up on the UK one like half way through and season 1 of both shows was exactly the same! Ive never seen a show just do it over again without changing pretty much anything (only movie i can think of is district b13 and the paul walker one)

But anyways misfits should have been called the nathan show. I stopped watching also half way through season 3... it got too serious. I watched it because it was funny and surprisingly "good" then nathan left and no more laughing just them trying to be "good". I stopped enjoying myself so much i didnt even care about the circumstances that led to simon going back in time anymore (one thing i really wanted to stick it out for). I found out from a friend like 5 years later.

I think the last episode i watched was the hitler one and it wasnt bad just too serious for what i watched misfits for (man in the high castle is a good show). Rudy had a few funny moments but had to be his own character and it wasnt as good (in preacher he is hilarious though!!!)

If the US version ups the comedy from how it was in s3 and isnt censored in any way im in. Basically a not too poor mans nathan has to be in it.

One of my favorite parts was when the new guy came in for vandalizing a coal fire power station and nathans reaction upon hearing that! Another favorite of mine was in the same episode one of the most serious things nathan ever said was to simon about how hes glad hes coming out of his weird little shell but lets get one thing straight... im the funny one around here!

[ursula]

I didn't think Nathan was indispensable either and the show didn't suffer from his absence. He brought crude humour and promiscuity and Rudy filled that quota. 

On 5/30/2017 at 1:17 PM, doram said:

I'm also certain that the ideas they had in series 2 included Alisha playing a more active role in superheroing

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought so! In 2x4, Alisha and Simon are the only ones who want to do something about the video shooter. In 2x5, she saves him from Jessica's father. In the Christmas special, she and Simon march together to kill the evil Pastor. There was definitely an arc there that was botched. 

For that reason alone, I won't mind a US remake. 

[Doyounot]

They cast everyone but simon so far!

http://deadline.com/2017/06/misfits-remake-fake-empire-freeform-pilot-order-leads-cast-ashleigh-lathrop-tre-hall-allie-macdonald-jake-cannavale-1202108006/

Bobby carnivales son does look like nathan to me and i havent seen him in anything but nurse jackie was a comedy so i assume hes funny. The girl that plays alicia was funny in sirens and kelly was a good actress on orphan black so they could also be good.

Im glad theres progress so hopefully not too long a wait for it.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Doyounot

[Katsullivan]

This news made me start rewatching the series and rediscovering my old love for it. I still remember literally throwing myself off my couch at the superhoodie reveal. 

I'm suspicious that they haven't cast Simon. Maybe they want to go with Overman's original plan to make Simon the Big Bad of the show. I would like to watch that version of Misfits, actually. If the US is going to remake a UK show that was a parody remake of another US show (Heroes), then this might be the best way to put a fresh spin on it.

Of course, what I would really like is for them to adapt the epic Simon x Alisha romance and flesh it out properly. Love the ideas up thread about Alisha's arc being meant for something bigger but the show taking a u-turn on it for some reason. An adaptation could fix that. 

But with this casting news... Salisha is  an interracial romance. I mean, it always was, but Simon was such a creepy character at the start of the show that the usual US audience backlash (Merlin fans know what I'm talking about) was not as intense. If they decide to 'hero' him up from the beginning, and make him the main male lead (something that I fear is why they're holding off the Simon casting announcement), then there'll definitely be a kick back against making his love interest a dark-skinned black girl.  

[ursula]

On 6/6/2017 at 5:14 PM, Doyounot said:

They cast everyone but simon so far!

http://deadline.com/2017/06/misfits-remake-fake-empire-freeform-pilot-order-leads-cast-ashleigh-lathrop-tre-hall-allie-macdonald-jake-cannavale-1202108006/

Bobby carnivales son does look like nathan to me and i havent seen him in anything but nurse jackie was a comedy so i assume hes funny. The girl that plays alicia was funny in sirens and kelly was a good actress on orphan black so they could also be good.

Im glad theres progress so hopefully not too long a wait for it.

This is a disaster. Freeform a.k.a. Disney for Tweens? Really? Syfy should have done this show. The guys behind the Magicians would have elevated the source material and kept the R-rated themes.

Edited June 11, 2017 by ursula