S01.E09: Dead Reckoning

[txhorns79]

So just to make it clear, it's only been a little more two weeks in Manifest-time, right?  So in just over two weeks, Grace has gone from thrilling over having been reunited with her presumed dead husband and child, to basically deciding there is no hope at all to make her marriage work and throwing the same presumed dead husband out of the house. 

And when Ben was acting like he had no place to go, did he forget about his father's giant mostly empty home?  I mean, I know Ben and Michaela got over their mother's death and moved on in five minutes, but it's like that whole storyline was just forgotten. 

[biakbiak]

On 11/27/2018 at 9:34 AM, basiltherat said:

She was eavesdropping on Mom's ouster of Dad and I don't think she's the type to do nothing about it!

I assume that was because he said that he needed to take Cal with him so she feels that he doesn’t love her as much as Cal. It was alluded to earlier when he called to ask her to check on Cal and she said she was fine too.

[shapeshifter]

16 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

So just to make it clear, it's only been a little more two weeks in Manifest-time, right?  So in just over two weeks, Grace has gone from thrilling over having been reunited with her presumed dead husband and child, to basically deciding there is no hope at all to make her marriage work and throwing the same presumed dead husband out of the house. 

It doesn't seem too much crazier than real life couples who have endless excuses for not getting professional counseling.

 

19 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

he had no place to go, did he forget about his father's giant mostly empty home?  I mean, I know Ben and Michaela got over their mother's death and moved on in five minutes, but it's like that whole storyline was just forgotten. 

Don't the Previously TV Awards have a prize for the biggest plothole? I think we may have a winner.

[Ailianna]

On 11/27/2018 at 12:34 PM, basiltherat said:

I'm sure it won't be long until Daniel is back in Grace's life, and I don't think Olive will like it this time.  She was eavesdropping on Mom's ouster of Dad and I don't think she's the type to do nothing about it!

 

On 11/28/2018 at 7:37 PM, KaveDweller said:

That's a really good point. Grace got Cal back, but Ben can never get what he missed back with Olive.

 

9 hours ago, biakbiak said:

I assume that was because he said that he needed to take Cal with him so she feels that he doesn’t love her as much as Cal. It was alluded to earlier when he called to ask her to check on Cal and she said she was fine too.

I feel pretty bad for Olive, and it seems like no one is telling her anything.  And while I think she's going to be mad at mom, she's more devastated to think her dad doesn't love her anymore, and that may push her toward Daniel.  I kept telling him to say he couldn't just leave his kids, you know--both of them.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Ailianna said:

I feel pretty bad for Olive, and it seems like no one is telling her anything.  And while I think she's going to be mad at mom, she's more devastated to think her dad doesn't love her anymore, and that may push her toward Daniel.  I kept telling him to say he couldn't just leave his kids, you know--both of them.

Plus, early in the series we learned that Olive had been receiving counseling for depression. Her parents and the writers seem to have forgotten about that.

[Clanstarling]

11 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

So just to make it clear, it's only been a little more two weeks in Manifest-time, right?  So in just over two weeks, Grace has gone from thrilling over having been reunited with her presumed dead husband and child, to basically deciding there is no hope at all to make her marriage work and throwing the same presumed dead husband out of the house. 

And when Ben was acting like he had no place to go, did he forget about his father's giant mostly empty home?  I mean, I know Ben and Michaela got over their mother's death and moved on in five minutes, but it's like that whole storyline was just forgotten. 

I don't think she was ever thrilled about being reunited with Ben, I think she truly loves Danny and they're more suited than she and Ben. I think she pretended to be, because she was thrilled to be reunited with Cal and couldn't figure out a way to make it work since they were a group package. But her mind's been working on the problem ever since.

I know, right? On the one hand, boiler room - no amenities. On the other - Dad's. Decisions, decisions. Heck, I've wondered from the beginning why Michaela didn't move in with Dad instead of horning in on her brother's life.

10 hours ago, biakbiak said:

I assume that was because he said that he needed to take Cal with him so she feels that he doesn’t love her as much as Cal. It was alluded to earlier when he called to ask her to check on Cal and she said she was fine too.

Good catch.

10 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

It doesn't seem too much crazier than real life couples who have endless excuses for not getting professional counseling.

One of those endless excuses is often that they can't afford counseling. It's not cheap, and even if you have insurance (by no means a given even after the Affordable Care Act), not all insurances cover it well enough so that you can get enough of it to be beneficial.

Edited November 30, 2018 by Clanstarling

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

Heck, I've wondered from the beginning why Michaela didn't move in with Dad instead of horning in on her brother's life.

Is there any scenario where living with married relatives isn't stress inducing? Not in my family—but maybe in others?
And if they decided after the pilot to not use the grandpa/dad, why not just offer a throw away line like: Too bad Dad doesn't live commuting distance from our jobs.

 

5 HOURS AGO, CLANSTARLING SAID:

One of those endless excuses is often that they can't afford counseling. It's not cheap, and even if you have insurance (by no means a given even after the Affordable Care Act), not all insurances cover it well enough so that you can get enough of it to be beneficial.

Yeah, my ex and I got free counseling from a retired psychiatrist and therapist. Turned out there were reasons he was retired. And Ben and Grace do have financial issues. Now I'm feeling more sad than mad about their situation. But shouldn't the airline be offering free counseling?

[green]

On 11/29/2018 at 8:08 AM, fauntleroy said:

As of this episode the only reason I still watch is to be able to keep up with the excellent commentary here.

One cheeseball dramatic technique in play here is dithering by the goods vs decisiveness by the bads. That is, the slowness of the uptake at action time eg Dad, look over there! Cal, how did you get here! Dad, over there! Michaela, bring Cal somewhere safe! Dad, over there! Cal, what do you mean over there - do you mean here? No dad, over there! Do you mean in my hat? Etc.

All movement must be preceded by squabbling about protecting one or more of the participants - you can't go it's too dangerous, I'm going! No you're not, yes I am! Oh all right but stay in the car! So we understand how committed they are, and to take up time that could be used to advance the actual plot. The characters necessary to a scene end up at the scene anyway so of course all that could all be dispensed with.

Or incredulity at the surprising nature of any suggestion. A farmhouse upstate, rilly? Between the two trees? Where do you come up with this stuff! Oh well maybe we should have a look after the commercial.

Or applying guilt that the right action will cause drama later a la BBQ. All action is conscribed by impedimemts of mental slowness or domestic consequence. Whereas the evil lab people are remarkably brisk in their movements, able to tear down labs and move people in the time it takes our heroes to decide who rides in front or back.

Would be fun to find out some day if the writers expected viewers to have sympathy for Grace and bungled the effort Wesley Crusher style, or are aware of the unfairness of her arguments (as well described upthread) meaning have made her this harridan on purpose. If the latter okay you have made your point and if presumably the target is getting Ben and Saanvi together then move it along please.

Speaking of brisk action, the rescued people were certainly whisked off in a hurry! No autonomy for them, just transport to the next plot place god knows where. The concern for Cal's whereabouts doesn't extend to these poor souls. They'll miss Christmas! Still not noticed missing in their native countries because the rest of the world doesn't exist, only Famileee!

Hilariously true.  Thanks for the great post.  And those last two words are why the writing is so so very poor in a nutshell.  Especially when a lot of posters here don't even like this family.

My list of favorites on the show so far are:  (1) Kooky Accounting Dept Boss, (2) Dead Or Not Dead Vance, (3) Fiona the Sketchy, (4) Flight Attendant Lady, (5) Indian Doctor Lady, (5) Tortured and Screaming Bulgarian, (7) Gay Plane Stowaway Guy, (8) Rooftop Suicide Guy, (9) Confused Scientist Yabbering On About Wormholes, (9) Woman Survivor Turned Judas.

[shapeshifter]

15 minutes ago, green said:

(1) Kooky Accounting Dept Boss, (2) Dead Or Not Dead Vance,

Can they kill off everyone else? Except Olive.

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Yeah, my ex and I got free counseling from a retired psychiatrist and therapist. Turned out there were reasons he was retired. And Ben and Grace do have financial issues. Now I'm feeling more sad than mad about their situation. But shouldn't the airline be offering free counseling?

Has there even been a peep from the airline? Another thread dropped.

[ottoDbusdriver]

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

Has there even been a peep from the airline? Another thread dropped.

Good question -- you would think they would at least get their trip refunded since, you know, they arrived 5 and a half years after departing.  Or at least credit towards their next Montego Air flight that will also take 5+ years to complete.  :)

Does the NSA still have their luggage ?  Sure, the plane blew up but the luggage should still be in that hangar.

[txhorns79]

Quote

Heck, I've wondered from the beginning why Michaela didn't move in with Dad instead of horning in on her brother's life.

In fairness to Michaela, I think Grace presented her with a fully furnished room and told her this was her home now.  Though, I agree it makes a lot more sense for her to live with her father, given he appeared to have a lot more room and she would probably have more privacy. 

Quote

Don't the Previously TV Awards have a prize for the biggest plothole? I think we may have a winner.

 

I can't even imagine the emotions one would have if they returned from a trip to suddenly find that the parent they were just speaking with like two hours before had died.   I suppose it's an emotion to "whatever" the whole thing.  Maybe the twist is Ben and Michaela wanted her dead all along and the airplane people did them a favor given they apparently have the power to strike people down dead.  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I handwaved Michaela initially staying with Ben's family because I figured that they'd just been through a really crazy situation together and it would be nice to have a fellow survivor nearby to talk to and relate to, especially in the first few weeks. And later when we found out that she still wasn't able to drive, I assumed that Ben's house was closer to the station than her dad's house was (and she probably didn't want to admit to her dad that she wasn't driving).

[jls1792]

On 11/27/2018 at 11:55 AM, J0nas3 said:

One of my first thoughts was, ‘what if he was saved by the callings, but the price for that was Vance?’

But didn't Michaela learn Vance was dead before she talked to the callings and asked for Jared to live?

 

I'm with those hoping Vance isn't actually dead.  While I was worried about his fate once he started working with Ben, like others have pointed out, we didn't see a body.  Not seeing a body makes it easy to bring back a character and not have them dead.  I just feel like if someone like Vance, who was a pretty prominent character, was going to be killed off, they'd actually show his death/body for the full effect.

 

Grace was super annoying.  Her husband and son returned after being gone for 5 years and presumed to be dead, and when they both come back, they haven't aged. I know what Ben is saying would sound a bit crazy, but I wouldn't totally shut him down considering something happened that clearly caused them to not age in 5 years.  I feel like if I was in that situation, I'd at least hear Ben out and give him some credit.  

 

I don't know why, but when Cal, Ben, Michaela, and Saanvi started having the headaches because of the experiments being done on the missing passengers, I loved how Vance said "What the hell?!"  I really hope Vance isn't dead.  He brought a good balance.

 

As for Michaela and Ben moving in with their dad, do we know where he lives?  I'm sure it's not too far, but it could be a bit of a drive?  Michaela did visit him in episode 5 on her day off.  So as to why Michaela stayed with Ben instead of her dad, it could be Ben lived closer to the police station.  And now, with Ben and Michaela both needing to find somewhere, it's possible they don't want to impose on their dad, even if he does have the space.  They might just want a small place of their own, especially if they're going to be doing secret investigations.  And again, it could be more of a convenience thing.  If the dad lives a bit out of the way, Ben would want to stay near his kids and Michaela wants to be close for work.  Maybe the actor who plays the dad is busy and can't film much for the show or just wants to appear in a few episodes.  If that's the case, it might not be worth it to have Ben and Mick move in with him if we would hardly see him. Plus, looking at it from a cost perspective, it would probably be easier to use a set for an apartment than a house

 

Oh, and count me in for those who think Ben and Saanvi would be good together.  I remember a few episodes in when they started working together and I thought "I wonder if they'll get together and Grace and Danny will get back together"

Edited December 1, 2018 by jls1792

[Clanstarling]

15 minutes ago, jls1792 said:

As for Michaela and Ben moving in with their dad, do we know where he lives?  I'm sure it's not too far, but it could be a bit of a drive?  Michaela did visit him in episode 5 on her day off.  So as to why Michaela stayed with Ben instead of her dad, it could be Ben lived closer to the police station.  And now, with Ben and Michaela both needing to find somewhere, it's possible they don't want to impose on their dad, even if he does have the space.  They might just want a small place of their own, especially if they're going to be doing secret investigations.  And again, it could be more of a convenience thing.  If the dad lives a bit out of the way, Ben would want to stay near his kids and Michaela wants to be close for work.  Maybe the actor who plays the dad is busy and can't film much for the show or just wants to appear in a few episodes.  If that's the case, it might not be worth it to have Ben and Mick move in with him if we would hardly see him. Plus, looking at it from a cost perspective, it would probably be easier to use a set for an apartment than a house

 

These are a lot of good reasons why they might not live with their Dad - but I'd like the show to tell us why, rather than having us come up with lots of scenarios - it isn't really a dramatic part of the plot, just one bit of world building they should have done. Explain the normal stuff (throwaway lines work fine), so that we can focus on the meat of the story.

Edited December 1, 2018 by Clanstarling

[shapeshifter]

48 minutes ago, jls1792 said:

Grace was super annoying.  Her husband and son returned after being gone for 5 years and presumed to be dead, and when they both come back, they haven't aged. I know what Ben is saying would sound a bit crazy, but I wouldn't totally shut him down considering something happened that clearly caused them to not age in 5 years. 

Reading this^ made me consider that in part Grace feels "old" and resents Ben for being young (even though she knows it's not his fault) and fears he sees her as "old." Plus, she probably thinks she's an older, wiser parent than her baby faced husband.
But if they were going for that, they should have cast someone older for Grace.
Even though Josh Dallas is a very young looking 39, and even if we consider that he might have been a few years older than Grace 5.5 years ago, Athena Karkanis is 37, and she is a youthful looking 37, IMO, so I want to see her feeling old and insecure regarding her young husband's affections, but I can't.
OTOH, Melissa Roxburgh (Michaela) is just 25, whereas Jared (J.R. Ramirez), at 39, looks to me like he could almost be her father's age (although they cast a grandfatherly-looking man as her father--so not that old of a father). I guess it works if Jared was supposed to be 29 when the plane went down (if he's playing 34).
Anyway, I think casting Michaela so young and Jared middle-aged helps reinforce the story.
Maybe they should put a few white hairs on Athena Karkanis' head?
Although at this point--especially after she banished Ben in this episode--if I see her looking at white hairs in the mirror, I'm going to think of the evil queen/witch from Snow White.

[jls1792]

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

These are a lot of good reasons why they might not live with their Dad - but I'd like the show to tell us why, rather than having us come up with lots of scenarios - it isn't really a dramatic part of the plot, just one bit of world building they should have done. Explain the normal stuff (throwaway lines work fine), so that we can focus on the meat of the story.

I agree, it would be nice if they actually addressed it. 

I just watched a Q+A with Melissa and J.R. and Melissa said that 

Spoiler

The dad will be back in the next half of the season. So maybe they'll (hopefully) address some things in whatever episode that is

[Pcexbird]

I don't usually give up on a series but this one is getting so much worse, each episode. Grace please kill yourself and take that little twerp Cal with you. As for the under-bite cowboy mustache eyebrows of a beast woman...I cannot let your presence grace my television anymore!

[fauntleroy]

9 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

These are a lot of good reasons why they might not live with their Dad - but I'd like the show to tell us why, rather than having us come up with lots of scenarios - it isn't really a dramatic part of the plot, just one bit of world building they should have done. Explain the normal stuff (throwaway lines work fine), so that we can focus on the meat of the story.

 

Ye forum denizens have put more thought into this than the paid writers eh wot! Would go so far as out on the proverbial "limb" to bet that the writers simply forgot! (Known as a "limb-end bet".) About the dad and his big house. And their Ma jeez. Per Whatzisname's Razor, the simplest is most likeliestest explanation.

Even more likely, they "couldn't be arsed" as they say "across the pond" (heh heh!). That is, either they didn't think of it, or did and did nae give shite. Nothing a bit of throwaway dialog couldn't fix, yes. So alas, chance missed. Whether a symptom of rushed work or evidence of hack writing, that's the rub.

Is there a separate job in a writing dept of keeping track of "our story thus far"? Do they keep a big book, does it have a single owner? A gasp, private forum? Longer shows develop 'canon' (lovely word to this old Catlik) but this gang is starting from scratch. Weekly/daily writer meetings, does not one of them say let's put in a line explaining why she can't stay at her dad's. Or let's not forget, the mum died only two weeks ago, they should be grieving. How about let's say "Three months later..." to remedy the compressed time issue.

Maybe the schedule is such that continuity is not as carefully curated as (obsessed, zealous, fussy etc.) fans would like. More $ and care taken in the action sequences - all those extras, equiptment, shooting! Script $ preserved for catering.  And it gives fans something to nibble on - distracted by continuity nuts!

We are not fooled though, these nuts are but a distraction! This is what THEY want you to obsess over, allowing them to punt the ACTUAL BIG QUESTION OF WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED into the next season, always the next season, until cancelled before they have to come up with some damn thing. And you do not catch the punted question, because it is in the future and you do not care, because your nose is down in the grass at the 5-yd-line searching for yes, continuity nuts. Well this is the coach telling you to look up and catch the ball/question! (Note, sort out this metaphor later. Or you know, not.) In spite of their piddling and cowardly distractions. Grace is mad again uh oh! I will do anything for my son! He proclaimed, yet again. 

Perhaps a separate topic? Can a civilian do that? (See couldn't be arsed above.)

Categories of theory:

Timey-wimey:

• Inadvertent multiverse displacement via wormhole opened above Jamaica. But wormholes are spatial not temporal right? In this case time only, space was static so, a time hole? Many Star Trek variants of this, pick a cool one. Temporal anomalies abound, many threats to the delicate fabric of space-time.
• They flew right into chronoton particle cloud (!) the result of temporal storm, cause of turbulence. Time distortion at exit a function of er say, plane speed.
• Inverse temporal toroid, the plane didn't disappear five years they are on 'normal' time and really the rest of the universe 'blinked' forward around the toroid oops! And the intervening time did not actually happen and they only have false memories. It all depends on your point of view. Because time is relative you see. 
• If they found the time hole maybe they could go back! Well that's not a theory. Again, Kirk and Spock could help here. Still, since there was no spatial displacement maybe the scientists could visit the airspace and send drones through - could still be there?

Consciousness woo:

• Mass hallucination, subjects actually unconscious, stored in pods (Matrix model) or used as seasoning in large gravy boat at lunch table of enormous alien.
• Individual hallucination. Ugh not likely! Bob Newhart wakes up, St Elsewhere happened in a snow globe, kind of thing.
• MIchaela in coma, her dream. I dunno this whole category smells of cheat to me.

Mystic/religious:

• First of many such events, ongoing effects of God v Satan time fight!
• Crossover! TARDIS malfunctioned at nearby coordinates after Jamaican vacation and intersected with...Dr returns in Season 6 to give them the choice to go back.
• The Eyebrows of God. We prostrate ourselves before their abundance and magnificence. I am in their thrall so gonna have to choose this.

Others:

Is it Aunt Ethel's Razor? Could have a go at the you-know-whats.

Kill Flanders!

ETA: I think the writers of Futurama would be of great help to this crew, when the time (heh heh!) comes.

Edited December 2, 2018 by fauntleroy

[Camera One]

17 minutes ago, fauntleroy said:

Maybe the schedule is such that continuity is not as carefully curated as (obsessed, zealous, fussy etc.) fans would like. h!) comes.

The showrunner seems to have a very specific plan and was very deliberate about how much time had passed by.  I am guessing he doesn't consider his chosen timeline to be a problem in the least.  

The dad thing could be so easily explained.  Shows should really have an outsider read the scripts to catch the things that the Writers can't see because they're too deep inside the rabbit hole.

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, fauntleroy said:

Perhaps a separate topic? Can a civilian do that?

[shapeshifter puts hand to temple like Shawn on Psych] I think I hear a voice calling me to Make It So.

And Lo, here it is: http://forums.previously.tv/topic/88108-theories-manifesting/

[fauntleroy]

Remarkable, thanks!

[Happytobehere]

I’m officially out. I can’t stand Ben’s family and the actress playing his sister is insufferable. To bad bad casting is dragging down a show with potential.

[tessaray]

After every episode I try and figure out why I'm still watching this show.  It's probably just my enduring affection for The 4400 - though I do like the cancer researcher, Vance, the stewardess, and Olive.  I'm 50-50 on Ben.  None of the domestic drama with either sibling works for me.  I can tolerate Michaela at work, sort of.   So yeah... why am I watching?  :) 

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, tessaray said:

After every episode I try and figure out why I'm still watching this show.  It's probably just my enduring affection for The 4400 - though I do like the cancer researcher, Vance, the stewardess, and Olive.  I'm 50-50 on Ben.  None of the domestic drama with either sibling works for me.  I can tolerate Michaela at work, sort of.   So yeah... why am I watching?  :) 

I'm equally luke warm about the show, and may grow cold by the end of January when 4 more of my new and returning weekly shows will be airing, plus I might still be working through an 8 episode December Amazon release.

You hear that, Show? Better get your act together soon, or else!

But it is nice to have a show to snark about, and only one on my list of those starting up soon might be snarkable.

[Camera One]

Although I don't really find this to be a well-crafted show, I care enough about the main characters to keep watching.  This is the first new serialized show I've invested in for awhile, though, so I want it to continue (and for once, a show I've chosen is actually getting decent ratings in the first season).  This is the type of show that is also fun to poke a bit of fun at and discuss.   Right now, I don't care enough about it to be disappointed.  To me, it's not the type of show that has a huge amount of potential in the first place, so my expectations are tempered and there is enough to keep me entertained (even if some of it is unintentional).

Edited December 3, 2018 by Camera One

[tessaray]

2 hours ago, Camera One said:

Although I don't really find this to be a well-crafted show, I care enough about the main characters to keep watching. 

I'm the opposite, I guess - mainly here for the mystery of the plane disappearing/reappearing.  I'll probably keep watching as long as the passengers' stories aren't really annoying.  

I will say that Grace kicking Ben to the curb is probably the best thing that could have happened, at least to keep me watching. The actors don't have any chemistry, so it's a relief to not have to try and root for the characters to get their life back. 

[Clanstarling]

13 hours ago, tessaray said:

After every episode I try and figure out why I'm still watching this show.  It's probably just my enduring affection for The 4400 - though I do like the cancer researcher, Vance, the stewardess, and Olive.  I'm 50-50 on Ben.  None of the domestic drama with either sibling works for me.  I can tolerate Michaela at work, sort of.   So yeah... why am I watching?  :) 

I loved the 4400, and it may be part of the reason I'm hanging on - or maybe that there just aren't that many shows on my exercise queue. I want to like this show - I like the concept. But I think it might be suffering because they seem unsure what they really want the show to be - can't have forward thrust without a clear eye on the eventual landing. Side stories are okay, but they need to dovetail with the central plot in a way they haven't seemed to manage it, at least for me. I'll probably stick with it, but I really hope things get better because I like the ideas, and don't hate the actors.

[Anela]

On 11/30/2018 at 3:04 PM, shapeshifter said:

Is there any scenario where living with married relatives isn't stress inducing? Not in my family—but maybe in others?
And if they decided after the pilot to not use the grandpa/dad, why not just offer a throw away line like: Too bad Dad doesn't live commuting distance from our jobs.

 

Yeah, my ex and I got free counseling from a retired psychiatrist and therapist. Turned out there were reasons he was retired. And Ben and Grace do have financial issues. Now I'm feeling more sad than mad about their situation. But shouldn't the airline be offering free counseling?

Shouldn't the airline be giving them millions of dollars? I think someone else mentioned that here, a couple of months ago. 

[Elih143]

On 11/27/2018 at 12:34 PM, Boofish said:

I know you're being cheeky but GRACE IS BLACK?! In my Elaine Benes voice "should we be talking about this"

Yes I was indeed being politically incorrect solely for the purpose of eliciting a smirk or two. Cheers

[Elih143]

20 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I loved the 4400, and it may be part of the reason I'm hanging on - or maybe that there just aren't that many shows on my exercise queue. I want to like this show - I like the concept. But I think it might be suffering because they seem unsure what they really want the show to be - can't have forward thrust without a clear eye on the eventual landing. Side stories are okay, but they need to dovetail with the central plot in a way they haven't seemed to manage it, at least for me. I'll probably stick with it, but I really hope things get better because I like the ideas, and don't hate the actors.

I'm with you on the 4400 genre. Resurrection was good but only lasted a short while. There is a French version that is similar but different. And there is the book. I actually enjoyed watching the French version. The subtitles gave me something extra to do with my eyes and noticing the cultural difference inherent with the foreign production was interesting too. Additionally there is an Australian version that is the same but quite different as well. I can't remember the name of it right now. I was able to binge into it because work was so slow that I had ample time for the tele. too much time in fact.

[Clanstarling]

3 hours ago, Elih143 said:

I'm with you on the 4400 genre. Resurrection was good but only lasted a short while. There is a French version that is similar but different. And there is the book. I actually enjoyed watching the French version. The subtitles gave me something extra to do with my eyes and noticing the cultural difference inherent with the foreign production was interesting too. Additionally there is an Australian version that is the same but quite different as well. I can't remember the name of it right now. I was able to binge into it because work was so slow that I had ample time for the tele. too much time in fact.

I loved the French version - it was far creepier, imo. The town it was shot in was perfect for the storyline. I couldn't get into Resurrection because the French version was so vivid in my mind and I couldn't help comparing them.

[Anela]

8 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I loved the French version - it was far creepier, imo. The town it was shot in was perfect for the storyline. I couldn't get into Resurrection because the French version was so vivid in my mind and I couldn't help comparing them.

Same here. 

[snarktini]

On 11/27/2018 at 10:02 AM, rubyred said:

Why did they introduce a piece of Autumn's backstory (the "arrests") and then drop it?! I was intrigued, like was her identity stolen or something? Yeah, I'm more interested in a rando passenger day-player than the leads of the show. Uh oh.

Maybe it will be Olive who calls Grace on her shit.

I assume the role of the arrests in the plot is that's what gives them leverage to make her spy. What I'm wondering is if she was involved in the experiments at all. She did have the burn marks but they also could have given her those and told her what to say. Because why would she go along with them if they'd tortured her the way we saw? Even coercion can only go so far, unless they are threatening her with something gigantic.  (And even then...do I want to defect to the nice people trying to help me, or risk being jailed and tortured PLUS be responsible for the continued imprisonment and torture of many others? Do they have her kids or something?)

On 11/29/2018 at 7:19 PM, txhorns79 said:

So just to make it clear, it's only been a little more two weeks in Manifest-time, right?  So in just over two weeks, Grace has gone from thrilling over having been reunited with her presumed dead husband and child, to basically deciding there is no hope at all to make her marriage work and throwing the same presumed dead husband out of the house. 

And when Ben was acting like he had no place to go, did he forget about his father's giant mostly empty home?  I mean, I know Ben and Michaela got over their mother's death and moved on in five minutes, but it's like that whole storyline was just forgotten. 

I do like this show, in a silly, light way. But the timeline is bonkers. Everything is going way too fast.

And the Case of the Missing Grandpa is ridiculous, as has been noted many times (in this thread alone!). He lost his wife, two kids, and a grandkid...and now that 3 of them are back from the dead he's nowhere to be seen? And Ben doesn't go there even for a night? It's dumb.

Edited December 5, 2018 by snarktini

[Camera One]

It really makes little sense, so they would need to clarify.  Why didn't she warn the guy that Vance and Ben were close to finding their secret location?  Why is she still texting and asking "What's next?"  It does seem like she really did have a criminal record, since the Singularity guy referred to some type of specialty she had as a criminal. 

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

Why didn't she warn the guy that Vance and Ben were close to finding their secret location?  Why is she still texting and asking "What's next?" 

This could mean she'll be a double spy soon (like Jared was). I guess it depends upon whether she's more useful to the plot writing as a spy or a double agent. Or would it be a triple agent?

[Camera One]

16 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Or would it be a triple agent?

Good point.  That's when Passenger #57 is introduced in yet another flashback of what happened as the flight attendant was selling bags of pretzels.

[ottoDbusdriver]

6 hours ago, Camera One said:

Good point.  That's when Passenger #57 is introduced in yet another flashback of what happened as the flight attendant was selling bags of pretzels.

My money is on the fact that she is a quadruple agent, working for some organization we have yet to be introduced to that is responsible for the plane disappearing, and likely funded by aliens from the future who have come back in time in order to save Cal because Cal starts a band whose music ends up saving the world. </sarcasm>

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

My money is on the fact that she is a quadruple agent, working for some organization we have yet to be introduced to that is responsible for the plane disappearing, and likely funded by aliens from the future who have come back in time in order to save Cal because Cal starts a band whose music ends up saving the world. </sarcasm>

Replied in Theories Manifesting:

I realize your jovial sarcasm extends to the idea of a nesting Russian doll scenario of bigger and bigger bads, but I really don't want extraterrestrials. Even humans from the future is a worn out story that I don't think this show can make fresh. I'd prefer more of a Twilight Zone one-off blip, because that's something this show could handle.

(because the new thread consolidation policy confused me—sorry)

[Dowel Jones]

I think we have to go with the simplest solution.  It was a David Copperfield stunt gone terribly wrong.

[seacliffsal]

See?  THIS is why one should never plan a surprise party.  If the guest of honor doesn't know about the party and doesn't show,  it usually means the end of the relationship (at least in movies and t.v. shows)...  That's what I think was the final straw for Grace.

I'm still really enjoying this show, and was anxious about them finding the missing passengers in time (I really liked the Bulgarian from his brief stint in a previous episode).  I am very curious about Fiona and her true intentions as well as what happened to Vance.  It's very suspicious to me that Michaella saw him put into an ambulance and then the next thing she heard was that he didn't make it.

I am very interested in the stories of the individual passengers.

[shapeshifter]

17 minutes ago, seacliffsal said:

what happened to Vance.  It's very suspicious to me that Michaella saw him put into an ambulance and then the next thing she heard was that he didn't make it.

I will be very annoyed if they sideline him with electrodes coming out of his head in the enemy lair.

[jhlipton]

On 11/27/2018 at 3:06 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Also dumb: there's an explosion so Michaela runs straight towards it.

That's what (good) first responders do --see the video of the bombing at the Boston Marathon.  But she was more likely running to Dear Darling Jared, rather than because of her training.

[Starchild]

For reasons, I couldn't watch this until today. Most unbelievable thing for me is that, when Jared was touch-and-go in the hospital, why would no one notify his wife?

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, Starchild said:

For reasons, I couldn't watch this until today. Most unbelievable thing for me is that, when Jared was touch-and-go in the hospital, why would no one notify his wife?

She was there in the background--as usual.

[Camera One]

Without the saved shows on the home page, I couldn't for the life of me remember what this show was even called.   I guess the torturous wait for the next episode is almost over, LOL.

[Friendly kitty]

I just complained of boredom, they gave me a real action in this episode! Here are more such episodes.😎
And yes, it turned out cool when Ben saw a landing strip in front of him that showed him where to go. Straight road of yellow brick ... Great find writers!

[Quark]

I've recently started watching this show and just had to bump this thread because Vance's line "I followed a headache, I may as well follow a crayon drawing" just cracked me up so much.