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The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow


Grammaeryn
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CL should count her self lucky she didn't get 90210, that show was awful. I also guess her saying that she was told she wasn't right for the part was true, then I guess they realized that a character that's an assassin that survived life or death situations for 6 years isn't going to look like a stick thin model. 

 

Also did not even recognize KC in that pic from Gossip Girl. 

Edited by Sakura12
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Rapaport confirms what I already know.  The CW just recycles the same actors over and over in their shows.  

 

It sounds like Diggle's role is a lot bigger than what was originally intended.  I liked that they said this about Caity: "and now we’ve ended up building DC’s Legends of Tomorrow around her.”  I won't be watching, but I hope she's the breakout star of that show.

 

I was fairly sure that there had been a chemistry test between Candice and Grant, but Rapaport confirmed that there was.  Wonder if that will show up as a DVD extra at some point?   

 

“That was a really hard role to cast,” Rapaport said. “We had seen Candice initially, but I think we were too early on in the process to cast her so we ended up testing Keke Palmer and this other girl, but they felt a little too young next to Grant.

 

 

Not surprised they had a hard time casting the role.  I have yet to see Grant Gustin have actual sexual chemistry with anyone, man or woman.  Barry is adorable, but I would have so much second-hand embarrassment from watching him in a love scene.  Oh, and "they felt a little too young next to Grant"?!  How is that even possible?

Edited by SonofaBiscuit
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I cannot see Robbie Amell as Oliver Queen.  Just can't.  And the idea of Grant Gustin as Thea's boyfriend in s1 is weird too.

 

This is interesting about Caity Lotz.  Can we take it as an admission that they made a mistake killing Sara off?:   

  

  “That was a tough one because we were recasting the role of Sara Lance from the pilot,” he said. (Jacqueline MacInnes Wood originated the part.) “I had seen Caity on Mad Men a few years earlier and brought her in for 90210. She didn’t get that part. Then I brought her in for this and she didn’t get Sara right away, so we kept looking. But it was one of those things where I felt like, We have to go back to our initial instincts because she was so great. And now we’ve ended up building DC’s Legends of Tomorrow around her.”

 

He also says nice things about Katie Cassidy:

  

  “She is so reliable, she’s so beautiful, she’s so talented, she’s kind of everything that you want in an actor on a CW show,” he said of Cassidy, who he later cast on Arrow. “I read a ton of actors and my process is I pre-read a bunch of actors to narrow down the field to bring to producers, but there’s a small group of actors I will bring in project after project; I know them, I trust them, I know they’re going to perform, and it’s just a matter of finding them the right role. Katie is one of those people. She always brings something really interesting to the table; she’s fun to watch. She’s kind of electric. You can’t quite put your finger on it, but when she’s on screen, something magical happens and you can’t take your eyes off of her. And my dad really likes her.”
Edited by statsgirl
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Robbie Amell couldn't see himself as the OQ either, he said he kept seeing SA.

 

What he says about KC is true, she is a reliable CW stable, she's just not right for ARROW in the role of LL. She is great at bitchy with some deeper layers, and really was the best thing about the Melrose Place re-boot, when I watched the pilot. 

 

What is interesting for me is that Arrow was initially  sold as a vampire diaries style "Ensemble". 

 

 

The Vampire Diaries was on the air already, so we were sold as a three-hander between Stephen, Katie Cassidy, and Colin Donnell — a tripod if you will. That’s how we cast it and then the posters came out and Stephen was shirtless. First of all, we never saw him without his shirt on; I knew he was a physical guy, but I’d never seen him do stunts or anything like that and all of a sudden in the pilot, he’s doing his own stunts. He became famous for being shirtless. The poster was him shirtless and none of the other actors were on the poster, and as talented and amazing as they were, it became clear the show was about ‘The Arrow,’ so that really changed the concept for us because initially I saw it as more of an ensemble and cast it that way

 

Dig/Oliver/Felicity probably fill that capacity now for the Audience and possibly the producers, IMO.

Edited by Genki
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What is interesting for me is that Arrow was initially  sold as a vampire diaries style "Ensemble".

 

Was just making that observation when my posts got eaten. 

 

Hard to imagine Arrow ever being without a clear lead.  (And that we have SA's abs to thank for that)  The show really has radically changed from it's initial intent if Diggle was originally a small role, Felicity didn't exist and Tommy was going to be part of an equal triangle. 

 

Honestly, that show sounds like a mess. 

Edited by BkWurm1
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The show probably would've been a bit stronger if they had stayed with that format imo. With Oliver/Laurel gearing towards becoming becoming heroes and Tommy slow decent to the dark side and basically being a Merlyn type .

I love Katie in the role but the writers should've written Laurel more as a go getter who wasn't hung up on Oliver with wittier 1 liners when it came to dealing with her issues with Oliver instead of downright hate for him.

Edited by Primal Slayer
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The show probably would've been a bit stronger if they had stayed with that format imo.

I love Katie in the role but the writers should've written Laurel more as a go getter who wasn't hung up on Oliver with wittier 1 liners when it came to dealing with her issues with Oliver instead of downright hate for him.

I agree that the hate should have been dialed back from Laurel's character but wouldn't the trio of leads in a comic book show make it just one endless soap opera love triangle fest?  Apart from not being a vampire fan, I avoided The Vampire Diaries because the love triangle was built into the premise. 

 

The more I think about it, the luckier I think Arrow was to have changed it's intended arc.  The only way to make Tommy, Laurel and Oliver equal on the show was if they'd had Tommy be the destined Dark Archer and that would mean that the whole show would have been about Black Canary bouncing back between the guy that had cheated on her and ran off with her sister and the guy that was there for her when she needed him but oops, he's destined to be EVOL! 

 

I have big issues with what they did to Black Canary on Arrow but THAT would have been sooo much more insulting. 

Edited by BkWurm1
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I agree that the hate should have been dialed back from Laurel's character but wouldn't the trio of leads in a comic book show make it just one endless soap opera love triangle fest? Apart from not being a vampire fan, I avoided The Vampire Diaries because the love triangle was built into the premise.

I didn't watch a lot of Smallville, but isn't that what the show was for a little while? Clark (proto-hero), Lex (proto-villain), and Lana, the woman they fight over?
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I would to have a 'what if episode' though, showing what would have happened if Tommy did become the dark archer. Showing how everything could have gone. Laurel becoming the Black Canary first. They could do it now presumably, but I doubt they would.

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I didn't watch a lot of Smallville, but isn't that what the show was for a little while? Clark (proto-hero), Lex (proto-villain), and Lana, the woman they fight over?

Lex and Clark really didn't fight over Lana until like the fifth or sixth season.  Lex was an adult and Lana wasn't "legal" until the fourth season.  It was weird enough for him to be hanging with teen age Clark.  He did also weirdly partner with Lana on a coffee shop in town but I didn't find his attention to her that inappropriate at the time.  He wasn't in love or in lust with her, though by the end of season three, Clark did seem jealous of Lex's friendship with her.

 

Still, no, Clark and Lex spent the early years as friends.  Lex doing things and Clark defending him against everyone that hated him (often justly).  Lex tried to help Clark win the girl in the early seasons.  In 5-8, Lana was a component of the fight between Lex and Clark but there was only about one season of out right competition. 

Edited by BkWurm1
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I agree that the hate should have been dialed back from Laurel's character but wouldn't the trio of leads in a comic book show make it just one endless soap opera love triangle fest? Apart from not being a vampire fan, I avoided The Vampire Diaries because the love triangle was built into the premise.

The more I think about it, the luckier I think Arrow was to have changed it's intended arc. The only way to make Tommy, Laurel and Oliver equal on the show was if they'd had Tommy be the destined Dark Archer and that would mean that the whole show would have been about Black Canary bouncing back between the guy that had cheated on her and ran off with her sister and the guy that was there for her when she needed him but oops, he's destined to be EVOL!

I have big issues with what they did to Black Canary on Arrow but THAT would have been sooo much more insulting.

Well minus the constant back and forth. Even TVD finally got around to having Stefan move in. Maybe a more edited version of Buffy/Angel/Xander except L/T happen briefly, doesn't work out, break up, with Tommy eventually moving on and holding off on L/O in general.

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The more I think about it, the luckier I think Arrow was to have changed it's intended arc.  The only way to make Tommy, Laurel and Oliver equal on the show was if they'd had Tommy be the destined Dark Archer and that would mean that the whole show would have been about Black Canary bouncing back between the guy that had cheated on her and ran off with her sister and the guy that was there for her when she needed him but oops, he's destined to be EVOL! 

 

 

 

Actually that was the impression I was getting when I watched the 1st few episodes and it put me off the show (too spiderman for my taste), as a storyline along with the lack of chemistry between KA & SA as well as KA & CD, (in retrospect she did have good chemistry with CD but I preferred WH & CD), and it wasn't till I heard Olicity was a thing that I decided to struggle through S1 and got hooked in 2A.

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Actually that was the impression I was getting when I watched the 1st few episodes and it put me off the show (too spiderman for my taste),

 

Mary Jane in the middle was my least favorite thing about the Toby McGuire Spiderman.  By the third installment, my least favorite things was just Mary Jane.  

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Wait. Arrow started out as a Vampire Diaries-esq ensemble? HELL NO. Nope. That never would have worked. The love triangle was awful enough in s1 without being prominent like it was on TVD. Super grateful that changed.

Edited by Guest
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Yeah, that comment actually solidified a few things for me about KC/LL's intended role, or how she was sold on the show. It sounds like they basically told her she'd be a co-lead, and I still wonder whether they suggested to her that they might spin off LL into her own show someday. (Not anymore, obviously.) Adjusting down to a one-lead show, and now back up to some semblance of an ensemble, has not been a seamless process.

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Yeah it definitely sounds as though she was sold the show on a premise that no longer exists which is really unfortunate and on that basis she has my sympathy. However, from her comments, she continues to treat the show as though it still fits that mould and her inability to see the show that exists now, does her no favours.

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Maybe that's how she copes with sticking with the show lol.

Which makes her an even lousier actress, an actor needs to be able to shift whatever canon in their head by what they get from the script. her inability to do so affects her acting choices for the character.

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I love hearing casting stories - can't get enough.  I'm now DYING to know what characters were supposed to have long arcs but were killed off quickly.  

 

Really glad they picked WH for Thea instead of Melissa Benoist.  I'm really looking forward to Melissa as Supergirl but WH is so perfect for Thea.

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If they were told that the foundation of the show is going to be the Oliver/Laurel/Tommy triad, then I feel even more sorry for Colin Donnell who must have thought he was in for the long haul only to be dropped in the first season.

 

On the other hand, I doubt the show would have lasted this long if they had not changed direction.

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KC might have made sense in whatever character they designed for her in pre-production. I do think that she does have the potential to be an actress that has a spark. Sadly, they haven't written her character well for over 2 seasons now. It doesn't matter how much of a spark you have or don't have. If the material is not great, they forget to add you to the main narrative and a good portion of your scenes wind up on the cutting room floor or just a few seconds of afterthought - it doesn't bode well for your character. I will be interested in seeing what s4 holds for LL/BC because whatever reasons they cast her, I think they forgot about that in the writers room.

 

It probably was a good casting choice, considering how they packaged LL in s1. I actually think she worked for the most part in s1 and could see a "spark". The only major casting mistake I think was a lack of a chemistry test between SA & KC. Everything else I blame on writing & acting choices, as well as a change in direction for the show. The show has evolved and I do not think that KC or her role has evolved with the show. But it all might be a moot point since apparently we have a fresh new show with a new tone coming in s4. Perhaps it won't matter what happened in the first 3 seasons now that the trilogy is closed.

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If they were told that the foundation of the show is going to be the Oliver/Laurel/Tommy triad, then I feel even more sorry for Colin Donnell who must have thought he was in for the long haul only to be dropped in the first season.

 

On the other hand, I doubt the show would have lasted this long if they had not changed direction.

I think the show would've been fine. I think Felicity/Diggle still would've come along and become part of the main cast. Though if they went this route and focused to much on a triangle, I can see the show possibly failing. But if they would have transitioned Tommy into the Dark Archer properly throughout the series, I think it would've been popular amongst the fans.

Edited by Primal Slayer
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Even with adding Felicity and Diggle to the cast, it sounds like the original intention was to have the show's weight bourne by the Oliver/Laurel/Tommy storyline (i.e. Diggle would have had a much smaller role than he does now).  I can see this as a formula that worked with the more soapy of the CW's shows, like TVD and Reign, but I can see a problem with the audience who tuned in for the comics adventure storyline.  Oliver would have worked with Diggle and Felicity on his book as a sideline but the show would always have come round to the triange as it did in the last episodes of s1.

 

Maybe it would have worked when Laurel became the Black Canary and could fight crime alongside Oliver but if viewers like GATV thought that Olicity ruined the show last season, would they have stayed to watch an Oliver/Laurel/Tommy triangle for 5 years?

 

I wonder if that was really the plan or if it was just the pitch to get the pilot made?

Edited by statsgirl
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I'm glad they didn't go that direction, frankly. I figured that was what they were going to do, and I was very "been there done that" about the whole "best friend becomes worst enemy" angle, after Lex and Clark on Smallville, and Peter and Harry in the Spider-Man movies.

In fact now that I think about it, I think that's where I really got hooked on the show. Tommy lovers will throw rocks (sorry!) but them killing Tommy off really got my attention. To me it seemed to mean that they weren't going to be predictable, and they weren't afraid to throw out the comic books and go another direction. Two years later that seems rather foolishly naive of me, but at that point it gave me hope that the show wasn't locked into a certain destiny just because.

I personally think Katie Cassidy is one of the biggest casting mistakes I've ever seen on a show. I know it's an infinite debate about whether the issues with Laurel are due to the actress or to the writing, but I personally think that a different actress would have made the writing work (or at least made it not seem so glaringly bad), and could have made the audience empathize more with the character, and probably the writers would have had an easier time writing for her. I'm not excusing the writing - it's been awful. But I personally think a lot of that is because KC isn't working with what they give her and they keep trying different things to see if it will work. I just don't think she's a good actress, especially in very dramatic scenes. But that is just my opinion.

ETA: I think Candice Patton is a perfect example of an actress that has made a part work in spite of some very flawed writing. CP makes me care about the character and want better for her. KC just makes me want her off the show.

Edited by Starfish35
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Maybe it would have worked when Laurel became the Black Canary and could fight crime alongside Oliver but if viewers like GATV thought that Olicity ruined the show last season, would they have stayed to watch an Oliver/Laurel/Tommy triangle for 5 years?

Ah, but if that had happened, all 3 of the characters would be from the comics, they'd all be masks, and it would be mostly based on comic canon (O/L), so that makes everything OK! Because Comics!

Edited by lemotomato
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Arthur King became Tommy Merlyn in The New 52 version of Green Arrow, according to wikipedia. Although, looking at the publishing date of the issue he was introduced (November 2012), it looks like they might have made the change to concur with the show, or vice versa

Edited by lemotomato
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Yeah when the show premiered. Not before. They made him Olivers bestie and all just to incorporate things from the show. The real/original Merlyn, Arthur King also appeared in TheNew 52 still as a villain. 

Edited by Primal Slayer
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What do the comics have to do with this show though? Obviously Arrow has never been one to constrict themselves to comic canon. They've consistently deviated.

Comics isn't a good reason to pursue anything imo. It's clear the writer did what they thought was natural. And obviously it worked considering season 2 was considered a success...and to a lot of people, it was considered more of a success than S1.

Why fix something that isn't broken is basically what I'm asking. The show as a whole was doing great in S2. I don't see why the whole premise of it should change just for the benefit of 1 character.

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Well Tommy Merlyn was a creation of the show, the original Merlyn from the comics was named Arthur King so we still would've had 2 characters from comics and 1 inspired by comics.

2 out of the 3, then. I'm still convinced that the Oiver/Laurel/Tommy triangle didn't incite all the "Arrow is a soap opera!" complaints even thought it took up a significant chunk of season 1, simply because O/L was comic canon at some point. That makes it all OK, for some reason.

 

What do the comics have to do with this show though? Obviously Arrow has never been one to constrict themselves to comic canon. They've consistently deviated.

Comics isn't a good reason to pursue anything imo. It's clear the writer did what they thought was natural. And obviously it worked considering season 2 was considered a success...and to a lot of people, it was considered more of a success than S1.

Why fix something that isn't broken is basically what I'm asking. The show as a whole was doing great in S2. I don't see why the whole premise of it should change just for the benefit of 1 character.

Who knows, really? I remember someone here theorizing that the BC identity was given back to LL and accelerated in season 3 because DC was launching the new BC comics this year. It's as good/bad a reason as anything else.

Edited by lemotomato
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I'm glad they didn't go that direction, frankly. I figured that was what they were going to do, and I was very "been there done that" about the whole "best friend becomes worst enemy" angle, after Lex and Clark on Smallville, and Peter and Harry in the Spider-Man movies.

In fact now that I think about it, I think that's where I really got hooked on the show. Tommy lovers will throw rocks (sorry!) but them killing Tommy off really got my attention. To me it seemed to mean that they weren't going to be predictable, and they weren't afraid to throw out the comic books and go another direction. Two years later that seems rather foolishly naive of me, but at that point it gave me hope that the show wasn't locked into a certain destiny just because.

ETA: I think Candice Patton is a perfect example of an actress that has made a part work in spite of some very flawed writing. CP makes me care about the character and want better for her. KC just makes me want her off the show.

Glad as well they didn't replicate the best friend goes bad. And when they did that arc with Slade, it was well done (well minus the Shado part that was dumb).

 

Consider a stone thrown :) Just kidding. I loved Tommy! But I'm happy they killed him, although sad we had to lose him. That being said, I still want them to bring him back to life and be secretly living on a beach somewhere. Like you, it showed me the show was going to be risk-taking. Same reason OQ's "ILU" confession in s2 got me reinvested back in the show. For all their risk taking, they sometimes become to fixated on their cliches & tropes. They get all these great ideas so the bullet points are Whoa, but the stuff in the middle is Meh. It's not so much that they killed TM, it's that they squandered a lot of the potential story arcs & character development that could have come from his death. Same thing with Sara. I was not upset that they killed her (from a narrative standpoint, was sad to lose her), but they squandered the potential of that story. Why kill main characters if after the shock wears off, you don't have a good story as a result of the death.

 

I'm all for risk taking and plot twists, but I want there to be substance and good rationale behind why characters have to die for the narrative. The only death I think was absolutely unnecessary was Moira's and that is because they had so many more things they could have done with her character and her death literally had no impact on the narrative or plot, except to make everybody really sad. It didn't change OQ's mission. It didn't inspire TQ. It didn't change anything. Everything would have remained the same if MQ had just gone to jail. The only thing the story would have lost is Slade skewering a person.

 

Agree about Candice Patton elevating her material.

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I love Tommy but don't want him back. The scene that I possibly most associate with S1 is his death. Open your eyes, Tommy! Insert wobbling chin. That was hard and had a real impact, I don't want that taken away from. Of course, I reserve my right to change my mind on not bringing him back should the show go into season 5. Until then I'm counting on seeing him in flashbacks.

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Do Comic Book TV Shows Sell Comic Books? Retailers Weigh In
by Vaneta Rogers 28 September 2015 Time: 02:00 PM ET
http://www.newsarama.com/26070-do-comic-book-tv-shows-sell-comic-books-retailers-weigh-in.html

"Arrow and Flash have brought in new customers (or lapsed readers in some cases) and DC was kind enough to have books for us to sell to them such as Flash Season Zero and Arrow Season 2.5," Park said. "I have had some luck 'converting' buyers of the digital-first titles to Green Arrow and Flash 'New 52' trade paperback buyers. When that happens, I feel successful. When someone says the comics are better than the shows, I feel validated.
*  *  *
"The CW stuff really resonates with our customers and is a weekly topic of conversation," Wellman said. "The shows keep the energy going throughout the week for comics."
 

Other retailers agreed that the CW shows have been particularly successful in piquing the interest of new and existing customers, but several store owners were befuddled that there wasn't the same attraction with Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D....

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#CountdownToArrow: 13 Times Oliver Queen Made Us Emotional Wrecks
October 7, 2015
http://www.itsjustaboutwrite.com/2015/10/countdowntoarrow-13-times-oliver-queen.html

 

I had forgotten they were all named Jen (JustAboutWrite, Jenny Raftery/Vulture, and jbuffyangel)...

Just About Write ‏@JustAboutWrite_
GUYS. With #Arrow returning, you once again get the return of the Jennifer trifecta reviews every Thursday: me, @rafteryish & @jbuffyangel!
3:00 PM - 5 Oct 2015

https://twitter.com/JustAboutWrite_/status/651155033816346628

Edited by tv echo
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See I think a show that had Oliver Laurel and Tommy as leads theoretically could have been great...as they delve into their families history with each other and the city in general. I actually thought that's what they were going for.

They really do owe a lot to Stephen, David and Emily. I'm not just saying this from a fan's perspective. It's just fact.

No it isn't
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I adore her. The fact that she's a Nikita fan is only icing on the cake. I think anyone who works in a chosen profession and is subjected to seeing it portrayed in fiction gets annoyed. I've learned that you just have to hand wave a lot of the ridiculousness away or you can never properly enjoy the show/movie.

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OMG, I love Emily so much. This new interview with Vulture is so much fun!  http://www.vulture.com/2015/10/arrow-emily-bett-rickards-pop-culture-questionnaire.html?mid=twitter_vulture

 

 

This may be my favourite part of the interview: 

Felicity’s pretty badass, but what one superpower do you think would make her unstoppable?

Shapeshifting. She’d be like, “I’m a lamp,” and then she’d just become a lamp.

 

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I'm also very glad that she recognizes the perfection that was Pushing Daisies. That show was amazing and I'm still so, so bitter that it was ever cancelled. That whole 2007-2008 writers' strike fiasco screwed over so many fantastic shows. *still not over it*

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