The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[Password]

Hmm Felicity had a momentary lapse which if it were a frequent thing I'd call her out on it. But it's not, she's proven year after year what Starling means to her so her losing it for a few seconds didn't bother me at all. The thought of losing Oliver again after he just got back would put anyone on a tailspin never mind someone who is in love with him. But I like what @wonderwall said about Ray snapping her out of it. She immediately (from what we could see) made the plan to wear the suit.

That "aggrandising" comment sets my teeth on edge. Making her bigger than she is. Argh. TA would fall apart without Felicity, NEVER MIND the large part she played in the finale and every other finale.

[lemotomato]

Yeah, I should have been more clear. The OP mentioned comments that were getting upvoted, so I was addressing that point.

 

I usually don't pay much attention to the comments section either, but it's hard to ignore the sheer level of vitriol focused on Felicity and Olicity, when there were a ton of other things that made season 3 not great. I mean, Laurel has always been a target of criticism, but I've never seen her blamed for "ruining" the show, nor have I seen people start petitions to reduce her role/rewrite her character. (I know some people here wish her away, but no one has actually done anything about it.)

[wonderwall]

Yeah, I should have been more clear. The OP mentioned comments that were getting upvoted, so I was addressing that point.

 

I usually don't pay much attention to the comments section either, but it's hard to ignore the sheer level of vitriol focused on Felicity and Olicity, when there were a ton of other things that made season 3 not great. I mean, Laurel has always been a target of criticism, but I've never seen her blamed for "ruining" the show, nor have I seen people start petitions to reduce her role/rewrite her character. (I know some people here wish her away, but no one has actually done anything about it.)

 

In the end, I learned to not give a damn about what they think because they're helping make Olicity the most talked about aspect of the show. They're adding to the noise and that doesn't do them any good. Meanwhile, most critics are fine with Olicity/Felicity thus giving them an edge. I don't think the CW cares about the comment sections as much as they care about critics as well as the response they see at cons/focus groups/twitter (which is pro o/f and pro felicity). 

 

People who say that Olicity/Felicity ruined the show shouldn't be given importance because 90% of the time when they say this they sound like tweens who are throwing a tantrum. It's a shallow evaluation (if you can even call it that) of the season and so it just makes me roll my eyes. 

 

While these comment sections have talked about Laurel, none of the critics are talking about it, no one is asking about Laurel (not even at cons), no one gives a damn about Lauriver, no one is asking about what her arc is going to be like next season... That's literally like the kiss of death. 

 

I'm fine with whatever is going on right now basically :p 

Edited May 26, 2015 by wonderwall

[AnyoneButYou]

I stopped going to GATV ever since this review for Identity:

http://www.greenarrowtv.com/arrow-advance-review-of-tonights-episode-identity

 

 

I also felt Felicity was a bit too snarky at points of this episode to the point of becoming annoying. I’m a huge fan of Felicity Smoak, but after several years of Smallville I’m so weary of when the plucky sidekick starts constantly sassing the boss. Hopefully that will tone down sooner rather than later. Weirdly, I’m okay with it when it comes from Diggle, mostly because this is a guy with military experience to back that up.

 

It's written by Craig who runs the site and started KryptonSite. It's pretty obvious as someone said that he's transferred his hate for Chloe over to Felicity. That plus, his remark about being ok with Dig talking back to Oliver, but the girl who just got demoted needs to stop sassing just turned me away. I was a big fan of KryptonSite back when it and Smallville first started. He was a comic book fan, but didn't really seem like a "because comics" person until KK left and Lois was retconned to death to become the Lois. KryptonSite was inundated by Lois fans who weren't really viewers from the very beginning and from what I remember a lot of Chloe fans left because Craig wasn't even trying to hide his biases anymore.

 

He and all his reviewers seem really sensitive if anyone has a differing opinion from them. They throw hissy fits on Twitter and blame Olicity fans for everything. I don't think he quite understands that if he weren't so biased, his site would get more hits. I'm not even really sure why shows affiliate themselves with fansites when Twitter, Tumblr, and FB are available. Things are different than when Smallville was around. K-Site was one of the few places people could talk about the show. The producers and the network probably get a better pulse on fan reaction from social media than from GATV since fans can talk to them directly.

 

I don't visit GATV anymore, but when he does his yearly poll, I'll be voting for Felicity for everything (except least favorite character) just to annoy him. Hopefully, all Felicity fans will do the same. I'm sure it killed him last season when Felicity won favorite character.

Edited May 26, 2015 by AnyoneButYou

[wonderwall]

I don't visit GATV anymore, but when he does his yearly poll, I'll be voting for Felicity for everything (except least favorite character) just to annoy him. Hopefully, all Felicity fans will do the same. I'm sure it killed him last season when Felicity won favorite character.

 

Can you please post a link up when he does post the poll? I'll probably make a link to it on tumblr :) I have about 7k followers there so I'll make sure she kicks butt in those polls lmao

[AnyoneButYou]

Can you please post a link up when he does post the poll? I'll probably make a link to it on tumblr :) I have about 7k followers there so I'll make sure she kicks butt in those polls lmao

Sure. I'll probably find out on Twitter from people I follow and let you know. Lol

[anamika]

I am not saying that Laurel was perfectly written. Far from it. She had some ridiculously hilarious dialogue too. Like when she went to warn Quentin about the Bioweapon which amounted to:

 

"Dad, a bioweapon is coming!"
"yes yes, Oliver told you that right?"
"Stop hiding the bottle in your desk!!!"

 

It's just that getting her away from the fan pandering shipper nonsense and all that season 2 drama shit  immensely improved her character for me and others. Her Flash appearance showed a nice fun side to her (And got her new fans) and she adds a lot of potential to the team. I just want Black Canary to be well written and I hope we get a kick ass BC in season four.

 

 The difference this year was that Laurel got a mask, which apparently covers up all the plot holes and inconsistencies and problems (lying to her dad for 3/4 the season, copying Sara's everything, her instant fighting ability). Oliver was also written badly this season, and poor Thea had no agency, but they also both wear masks, which is why I'm guessing no one is nitpicking on them either. Funny how Felicity is the only non-mask left on the show

 

Which is pretty much the problem Laurel faced in season 2 where she was saddled with depression and drug addiction while her cooler, younger sister walked around kicking ass in a mask. Sara was everyone's favorite then. And Felicity still got a lot of love. But no one here was bothered by Laurel getting hate because she was not in a mask.

 

What happened is that after hitting rock bottom, Laurel had only one way to go. Up. Felicity on the other hand, as the fun, quirky nerd, was everyone's favorite. And when she got saddled with all that melodrama, it was her turn to suck. It's the writing. And to be honest, EBR is not very good with the dramatic acting. Maybe she will improve, but I thought that her lack of acting chops was highlighted in season 3. Which many viewers have criticized and which has added to the Felicity dislike.

 

The answer to why most of the people who comment online have turned against Felicity is that she has become the unfortunate CW girlfriend of the lead character. Which means she gets hit with the idiot stick and all her scenes revolve around or are about Oliver. As Wonderwall put it:

 

IMost critics who were disappointed with Felicity didn't actively hate her but hated the fact that she was given such a narrow focus, meaning, her arc was pretty much her figuring out who she should date. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing because it means that these critics want more for Felicity than have her just be a romantic lead. 

 

And there you have it.  Why would anyone find such a character interesting or even likeable. The part where Ray is trying to save the city and Felicity goes 'But Oliver!' is a fitting description of her season 3 arc. And when people rightly criticize that, they are called out as being haters or pro-Laurel.

 

As for Laurel's relationships with a lot of these critics, they have noted an improvement on her character, but I haven't seen many love her nor pay that much attention to her .Let's be real, she hasn't gotten any publicity at all after the finale. 

 

While these comment sections have talked about Laurel, none of the critics are talking about it, no one is asking about Laurel (not even at cons), no one gives a damn about Lauriver, no one is asking about what her arc is going to be like next season... That's literally like the kiss of death.

 

 

And that's a good thing?  Why is it great that no one is asking about Laurel?   Does it have to be a competition between Felicity and Laurel? I want both of these characters to be well written. CW has a bad track record when it comes to its women (Iris, Felicity, Laurel) as opposed to the awesome female characters that Shield and Daredevil is putting out. I hope Felicity goes back to her fun, nerdy roots and I hope BC's potential as a bad-ass DC super hero is finally explored.

Edited May 26, 2015 by anamika

[olicityfan25]

I can't wait until that poll because I have 12,000 Twitter followers and 1500 tumblr followers ready and waiting to vote for Felicity and Original Team Arrow!

[tv echo]

I just wanted to point out that EBR got a lot of good reviews for her dramatic acting in 3x10 and 3x11 (but everyone is entitled to their own opinion)...

Sampling of the rave reviews (see pages 29 - 33 of the Starling City media thread for article links) -

 

Bleeding Cool: "I don’t know if Rickards is that much better of an actress than Katie Cassidy and Willa Holland, or if Felicity’s character is better written, but there is a huge difference between emotional scenes featuring Felicity and those with Laurel and Thea. Too often, the writers have a big scene between Laurel and Oliver or her father, or between Thea and Oliver or (last season) her mother, and it would be tedious to watch. Meanwhile, Rickards manages to take the audience on the emotional journey with her."

 

Den of Geek: "[F]or Emily Bett Rickards to (literally) go toe to toe with John Barrowman and have her character come off looking like the superior badass,  well... that's something."

 

Emertainment Monthly (on 310): "Rickards, who has become the breakout actor on Arrow these past three years, flawlessly acted this scene. She has become a major character on this show and continues to stun fans in her dramatic scenes. Rickards acting is exceptional and it’s hard to believe this is her first major acting role."

 

Emertainment Monthly (on 311): "Each week Rickards continues to step up her acting game and become one of the best actresses on Arrow. Her ability to go from moments of complete heartbreak to comedic moments is simply stunning.... By having Felicity wander around and not acting like herself, her pain is conveyed effortlessly on screen and Rickards acting has a lot to do with that. Her ability to silently take Felicity through the five stages of grief is astounding."

 

Entertainment Weekly: "Emily Bett Rickards’ performance along with the rest of Team Arrow’s response to Oliver’s death carried the episode."

 

Examiner (on 311): "Fortunately, Emily Bett Rickards has been unfailingly consistent in her performances when not constrained by manufactured intimacy, and her subdued portrayal of a woman quietly mourning as she goes through the motions of her life saves her character in this episode."

 

IGN: "Emily Bett Rickards delivered a strong performance this week, downplaying Felicity’s usual ditzy charm for something more raw and broken."

 

Paste Magazine: "No surprise—the big star of this episode is Emily Bett Rickards, who beautifully captures the various stages of grief,..."

 

Screencrush: "Felicity hasn’t exactly lacked for screentime or story beats, though “Left Behind” understandably gets the most mileage of Emily Bett Rickards’ myriad reactions to Oliver’s absence..."

 

The Movie Network (Robert Dougherty):  "Much of Left Behind works as much as it ultimately does because of Rickards, in work that would be considered a serious Emmy threat if it was on any other network in a show of any other genre – even in a world where the CW now wins Golden Globes.

 

WhatCulture: "The star of Left Behind, however, was Felicity. Emily Bett Rickards managed to take audiences through the five stages of grief in 42 minutes of television. Whether she was cheerfully denying the possibility of Oliver’s death, arguing that Oliver could have survived, or projecting her inability to save the love of her life onto Ray’s crusade to honor his, every single one of her appearances tugged at the heartstrings to a degree so amazingly effective that you almost wanted to look away and allow the character her privacy.  She didn’t wail or gnash her teeth or rend her garments, but Felicity Smoak experienced a desolate depth of quiet grief that will linger even after Oliver’s return to her."

Edited May 26, 2015 by tv echo

[MarkHB]

This weekend, WIlla Holland revealed that the show had indeed planned to use Harley Quinn this season, but it got spiked from On High.  Not that the Arrow folks are short on Batman villains to bring in, of course.

[dcinmb]

Not quite sure where this exchange between jbuffyangel and her husband should go but it's pretty funny.

http://jbuffyangel.tumblr.com/post/119926770523/stephen-amell-on-wwe-raw-and-the-ridiculous

. . .

Me: Stephen (I call him Stephen because in my mind we’re buds) was on WWE Raw tonight.

. . .

Husband: (excitedly) Wait. WHAT? What do you mean that’s all that was going on? Stephen Amell was on WWE RAW?

Me: (shrugs nonchalantly) Yeah.

Husband: (even more excited) HOW? With who?

Me: I don’t know.

. . .

Husband: Jennifer (yeah, he Jennifer’d me) I watch RAW.

Me: (stare at him blankly) Yeah. I know.

Husband: (now he’s getting annoyed) So tell me what happened!

Me: Have you met me? What in holy Zeus do I know about your wrestling show?

Husband: (rolls eyes) At least tell me how he ended up on the damn show!!

. . .

Me: Anywho, Stephen is sitting down and then there’s some wrestler dude…

Husband: Yeah, they pop up on WWE Raw occasionally.

Me: (annoyed) You know…you can just look this up on the Internet.

Husband: (logically) I could, but I have to get up at 4 am for my flight, my glasses are already packed and my contacts are out.

Me: So I am your WWE Raw source right now?

Husband: I am aware this might be a fruitless exercise, but I’m willing to give it a shot.

Me: Your obsession with this show is truly bizarre.

Husband: (crosses arms) Really? You REALLY want to discuss TELEVISION SHOW OBSESSIONS with me? REALLY?

Me: (shaking my head firmly) No. No I do not. Let’s forget I said that.

Pause. Silence. Husband looks at me expectantly. I stare blankly at him. He sighs very loudly.

Husband: (impatiently) And? The wrestler dude?

Me: OH! Right.

Husband: I’m not kidding about the 4 am flight Jennifer.

Me: Stop Jennifer-ing me. I’m getting to it. So wrestler dude…is there one that hisses? It looks like hissing in the gif. And the vid.

Husband: Stardust?

Me: (brightening) OH! I actually knew that wrestler dude’s name.

Husband: (confused) How?

Me: One of my Twitter friends told me. Thank goodness. I was so confused with all the Stardust references. I thought they were talking about the movie but I didn’t get how a wrestler, Stephen Amell and movie about a fallen star had anything to do with one another.

. . .

Me: Anyways, Stardust wrestler dude hisses at Stephen and then Stephen stands up all super serious and they act like they are going to fight.

Husband: (nods approvingly) Sweet.

Me: (burst out laughing) Seriously?

Husband: Is that judgement I’m hearing? You spend 40 hours a week writing about a fictional couple!

Me: As opposed to your completely based in reality wrestling show?

Husband: You be quiet. I watched the fucking Vampire Diaries for you.

. . .

Edited May 26, 2015 by dcinmb

[tv echo]

More from Laura Hurley (TV critic for Examiner and WhatCulture) ...

Laura Hurley @lah9891 · 7h 7 hours ago In which I tell a story, wear my feminism hat, and talk about the (un)importance of masks for heroes on #Arrow: http://tmblr.co/Zw3itl1lhqnYG

https://twitter.com/lah9891

Tumblr post -- http://laurawritesabout.tumblr.com/post/119920597136/i-have-to-bring-this-up-because-its-been-a-repeat

Edited May 26, 2015 by tv echo

[Betweenthisandthat]

And that's a good thing?  Why is it great that no one is asking about Laurel?   Does it have to be a competition between Felicity and Laurel? I want both of these characters to be well written. CW has a bad track record when it comes to its women (Iris, Felicity, Laurel) as opposed to the awesome female characters that Shield and Daredevil is putting out. I hope Felicity goes back to her fun, nerdy roots and I hope BC's potential as a bad-ass DC super hero is finally explored.

 

Yes! I happen to like both characters and wish that here or in the media there'd be less hate for both and much better writing for them in general.  I have no idea why these two are pitted against each other: they don't fight on screen and seem to get along off screen.  There's no basis for the continued comparisons between the two except Oliver.  Both women are vying for role as female lead and it's not like we can have two women be important at the same time, LOL.  

 

For some reason, Laurel is somehow still perceived to be a threat, even when she's clearly not.  

The show has taken great pains to almost erase any history of an emotional connection between Oliver and Laurel. Laurel getting a story and screen time has no effect on Felicity if and when the writers decide to give both women the storylines they deserve.  It would be so great if the media and fandom and female viewers online could rally for better storylines for both women (and all the female characters in general) rather than getting off on trashing one to support the other for sport.  The show suffers when one character's storyline revolves around who she should date and the other's bashed because she on screen for more than 30 seconds.  

[BkWurm1]

Which means she gets hit with the idiot stick and all her scenes revolve around or are about Oliver.

 

There is this perception but it drives me batty since for 80% of the finale Felicity is doing all she can to save the city but one second where she rejects the notion that Oliver has to die and no one remembers anything else.  The show is about Oliver so I'd like to point out that everyone's story eventually revolves around Oliver. 

 

The show has taken great pains to almost erase any history of an emotional connection between Oliver and Laurel. Laurel getting a story and screen time has no effect on Felicity if and when the writers decide to give both women the storylines they deserve.  It would be so great if the media and fandom and female viewers online could rally for better storylines for both women (and all the female characters in general) rather than getting off on trashing one to support the other for sport.  The show suffers when one character's storyline revolves around who she should date and the other's bashed because she on screen for more than 30 seconds.

 

I hate that apathy for the character has somehow translated into acceptance, like it is just too hard to care or not if Laurel is ever given a coherent storyline. Her motivations and sudden transformation were a mess and in the beginning of the season media outlets called the show on it's wave a wand and ta da story line but that changed nothing in how Laurel's story was handled and yeah, it's like self defense to stop caring.  But that still doesn't make her transformations story this season any better and that has zero to do with any shipping concerns. I do wish the reviewers wouldn't sweep such a huge and continued writing fail under the rug. 

 

Which is pretty much the problem Laurel faced in season 2 where she was saddled with depression and drug addiction while her cooler, younger sister walked around kicking ass in a mask. Sara was everyone's favorite then. And Felicity still got a lot of love. But no one here was bothered by Laurel getting hate because she was not in a mask.

What happened is that after hitting rock bottom, Laurel had only one way to go. Up. Felicity on the other hand, as the fun, quirky nerd, was everyone's favorite. And when she got saddled with all that melodrama, it was her turn to suck.

 

taking to the relationship thread

Edited May 26, 2015 by BkWurm1

[FormerMod-a1]

taking to the relationship thread

 

Thank you.  Good idea.  

 

To all - We've been going off topic here.   Please take all further discussion that is not news or media to an appropriate thread.

[Velocity23]

TV Line updated Felicity Smoak best lines!

http://tvline.com/gallery/felicity-smoak-best-quotes-arrow-photos/

 

Also it managed to trend because of it.

[Velocity23]

Dennis O’Neil: Happy Endings

 

http://www.comicmix.com/2015/05/21/dennis-oneil-happy-endings/

[statsgirl]

I bet the comic fanboy EPs are thrilled to be appreciated by a Batman writer.

[wonderwall]

Mo Ryan and Ryan McGee do a podcast on Arrow/Flash!

 

http://talkingtvwithryanandryan.libsyn.com/episode-154-what-the-flash-got-so-right-and-arrow-got-so-wrong

 

It starts at 9:10... Quick points:

• They didn't like what they did to Felicity (re: the whole pretty woman moment she had in episode 7)
• Slade offered the show a spine, Ra's didn't which is why the whole season fell apart.
• Ra's was a major disappointment and a major reason why the season failed
• They didn't care about the flashbacks at ALL
• Malcolm's plan was too convoluted
• The first two crossovers worked, then they didn't make sense
• They liked individual moments and episodes (Felicity and Oliver in NP, Felicity putting on the Atom, etc.)
• They still don't care for Laurel and didn't like how she could hold her own against the LoA
• There were too many characters on the show, and are glad that Roy and Ray are gone

Edited May 28, 2015 by wonderwall

[Serena]

He and all his reviewers seem really sensitive if anyone has a differing opinion from them. They throw hissy fits on Twitter and blame Olicity fans for everything. I don't think he quite understands that if he weren't so biased, his site would get more hits. I'm not even really sure why shows affiliate themselves with fansites when Twitter, Tumblr, and FB are available. Things are different than when Smallville was around. K-Site was one of the few places people could talk about the show. The producers and the network probably get a better pulse on fan reaction from social media than from GATV since fans can talk to them directly.

No, if his site wasn't a design mess that hurt people's eyes just to look at it, it would get more hits. It's super ugly, isn't it? It seems he hasn't updated his design style since he first opened the site when Smallville premiered.

Anyway, what people shouldn't do is leave him comments telling him how wrong he is. Because 1) it's just giving him hits, aka money, and that's what he wants and 2) TBTB aren't gonna take away his press credentials just because he doesn't like Felicity. I mean, it's clear he's one of those "uppity women shouldn't talk back to the menz" kind of neckbeards, and he's gross, but the solution is to let him fade into irrelevancy.

[Velocity23]

Arrow: 10 Major Predictions For Season 4

http://whatculture.com/tv/arrow-10-major-predictions-for-season-4.php/2

[tv echo]

This is an interesting article...

 

6 Degrees of Separation: The Co-Star Connections In The CW's Arrow & The Flash
by Caitlin Perreault ⋅ Posted on May 28th, 2015 at 2:54am
http://moviepilot.com/posts/2015/05/28/6-degrees-of-separation-the-co-star-connections-in-the-cw-s-arrow-the-flash-2952143?lt_source=external,manual

 

[tv echo]

I generally agree with this article...

 

Arrow: 9 Mistakes It Must Avoid In Season 4
James Hunt  May 27, 2015
http://whatculture.com/tv/arrow-9-mistakes-it-must-avoid-in-season-4.php

Damien Darhk and H.I.V.E have been set up as the villains for season 4, and hopefully they will serve as ones with a clearer motive, and also present a different kind of challenge. Thus far we’ve seen Oliver go up against physical matches in the forms of Malcolm Merlyn, Slade and Ra’s, so it’d be good to see him deal with a villain who possesses great intellect – as Darhk supposedly does – and poses a different sort of threat.
*  *  *
Since then, there’s been an on-again/off-again, will they/won’t they dynamic between the pair, one that damaged Felicity’s character in season 3.

 

She was reduced to a love interest for Oliver and also for Roy Palmer, and all of her actions and reactions seemed to revolve around the men in her life. The season ended with Felicity getting what she and countless fans had always wanted: her and Oliver set to be together properly, and riding off into the sun.

 

The character got what she wanted, but not what she deserves. She deserves to be more than a love interest; with genius-level intellect and unrivalled hacking skills she can prove a match for any hero or villain on the show, as well as being one of its funniest characters. That was taken away from her last season, and the show must correct that in season 4.

 

If they can manage that while she is in a relationship with Oliver then great, because the show needs to end the Ross-and-Rachelness of it all, but if not then it’ll have to deal with that fairly quickly and move on properly. Arrow needs Felicity to be herself, not just Oliver’s girlfriend.

Edited May 28, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

A new article from Laura Hurley - this time writing about the LP...

 

Arrow Season 3 Roundup: What worked and what didn't with Lazarus Pits
Laura Hurley   May 27, 2015
http://www.examiner.com/article/arrow-season-3-roundup-what-worked-and-what-didn-t-with-lazarus-pits

 

FYI, Hurley also has some new discussions posted on her tumblr page that talk about online hate comments, Olicity hate, Diggle, Lyla, Barry's lack of development, Olicity breakup, Olicity fandom, and Laurel/Oliver drama:
http://laurawritesabout.tumblr.com/tagged/Arrow

Edited May 28, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Who Is Damien Darhk In DC Comics? 'Arrow's Potential New Villain Would Be A Great Addition To Season 4
RACHEL PAIGE @RACHMEETSWORLD  17 HOURS AGO
http://www.bustle.com/articles/85895-who-is-damien-darhk-in-dc-comics-arrows-potential-new-villain-would-be-a-great-addition

[wonderwall]

Matt Leiberman shuts down a twitter guy calling Felicity a whiny bitch, and it's glorious. But the guy in the beard... meh. 

 

Edited May 29, 2015 by wonderwall

[olicityfan25]

Matt is great. All these fanboys just want to erase all the good stuff Felicity has done. They can't take it that her character has done all that stuff so they pick the one thing they only have to bash her with. Because really they only have one thing. That tells you right there how good of a character she is.

[tv echo]

AK retweeted TVOvermind's tweet about this article...

 

Why Katie Cassidy Was Arrow Season 3’s MVP
By Andy on May 28, 2015
http://www.tvovermind.com/arrow/why-katie-cassidy-arrow-season-3-mvp-258818

[kismet]

AK retweeted TVOvermind's tweet about this article...

 

Why Katie Cassidy Was Arrow Season 3’s MVP

By Andy on May 28, 2015

http://www.tvovermind.com/arrow/why-katie-cassidy-arrow-season-3-mvp-258818

Everyone is allowed to have their favorites or their own personal MVP of the season. The article was clearly written by a LL fan and kudos to them for supporting their fav characters. I personally disagree with a lot of the article. I do think LL had a better season than s2, then again I never minded her addiction story I just never understood the relation of it to Arrow or her character. But I still think s1 was her most heroic & best season to date. When I consider MVPs, I consider them to be Most Valuable to the whole show. In sports, its someone who makes phenomenal momentum changing plays, leads the team or brings home the win. I don't think that was the case for LL/BC. She may be in the running for MIP (most improved) but that's more because they linked her the primary plot rather than leave her on her own subplot of angst & drama.

 

In TV, I feel like one of the main defining characteristics of the MVP is someone who if you cut out their scenes a good portion or the whole season falls apart. Without their contribution there is no season. For me, you can cut out LL/BC and still get the point of the season. She was not a critical force in propelling the theme of the show this year (Identity). She sorta just stole a lot of her sister's identity and continued to hit people & the audience over the head that she was now a "masked hero". But then again, give her some points for perseverance. OQ will always be a candidate for MVP, as the de facto Captain/Quarterback/Leader of this show/team. I love OQ & SAs acting certainly deserves a MVP for this season. But I do agree with the author that OQ is not the MVP of this season.

 

To me the MVPs of the season are Thea & Roy. Thea went from having no agency & being used as a pawn in the beginning of the season to standing up to both RAs & MM. She found her strength & inner purpose. She donned her mask to save her friends & then the city because she felt it was the right thing. To me she had more of a MVP arc/role & succeeded in it. Never mind, without her so many of the other plots (basically everything but Ray's suit) would never have happened. Roy to me finally fulfilled his hero journey through his sacrifice & loyalty this season. That deserves a shout out from me for MVP. Without him, OQ would be in jail, Thea may be dead & Team Arrow would be defunct. His moments might have been small or not as attention grabbing for a lot of the season. But in the end he made one of the biggest plays & momentum changes, so that may just earn him the MVP title.

Edited May 29, 2015 by kismet

[fantique]

 

Mo Ryan and Ryan McGee do a podcast on Arrow/Flash!

 

http://talkingtvwithryanandryan.libsyn.com/episode-154-what-the-flash-got-so-right-and-arrow-got-so-wrong

 

It starts at 9:10... Quick points:

• They didn't like what they did to Felicity (re: the whole pretty woman moment she had in episode 7)
• Slade offered the show a spine, Ra's didn't which is why the whole season fell apart.
• Ra's was a major disappointment and a major reason why the season failed
• They didn't care about the flashbacks at ALL
• Malcolm's plan was too convoluted
• The first two crossovers worked, then they didn't make sense
• They liked individual moments and episodes (Felicity and Oliver in NP, Felicity putting on the Atom, etc.)
• They still don't care for Laurel and didn't like how she could hold her own against the LoA
• There were too many characters on the show, and are glad that Roy and Ray are gone

 

That was what killed Raylicity for me. The whole "I have a type" thing... FACEPALM.

I just enjoy someone pointing out what a shit storm that was without gunning for a character in particular or an agenda. Really agree with the fact that the whole Ra's thing was just laughable. They bought their own hype with their villains being interesting, Malcolm, the darkness and Felicity being popular. Also, YESSSS to it being misery porn. I guess they really saw what MG says they do, they just wanted to pile on the D.R.A.M.A!

Also, those flashbacks were baaaaaad. And they called out them copying Angel season 5 with the "brainwash". Also the set up for the failed ATOM spin off that became LOT because half of the viewers want Ray to well...get blown up. Key phrase for Arrow: Complication is not complexity. Basically, this season was emotionally cheap. The drama was fabricated and it was stupid so we DGAF!!!! Their only saving grace is that the Flash finale might change something in Arrow and we can pretend season 3 didn't happen. What's clear is that they didn't plan this season outside of when they want to launch this or that hero. They need to get their shit together next season. 

I am scared that GB is spreading himself too thin as well though. I just hope he is more present in season 4 on Arrow for sure. I think a lot of the problems this season where not even in the ideas, but the execution was sloppy. 

Edited May 29, 2015 by fantique

[tv echo]

Here's one guy's opinion on the best and worst moments of S3...

 

Top 5 Best Moments from Season 3 of 'Arrow'
By Andrew Meola | May 29, 2015 11:55 AM EDT
http://www.mstarz.com/articles/69472/20150529/top-5-best-moments-season-3-arrow.htm

 

Top 5 Worst Moments from Season 3 of 'Arrow'
By Andrew Meola | May 30, 2015 06:00 AM EDT
http://www.mstarz.com/articles/69540/20150530/top-5-worst-moments-season-3-arrow.htm

[tv echo]

During the summer hiatus, Laura Hurley will be writing a weekly "not-entirely-serious recap of an Arrow episode of seasons past" - here's her new recap of S1's winter finale (it's actually pretty funny in parts, knowing now what we didn't know then, parts of her recap may not sound familiar ;) )...

 

Arrow Retrospective Recap: A not-entirely-serious look back at 'Year's End'
Laura Hurley   May 29, 2015  9:44 PM MST
http://www.examiner.com/article/arrow-retrospective-recap-a-not-entirely-serious-look-back-at-year-s-end

The Queen Consolidated IT Department. Felicity is examining the list on her tablet, focusing so intently that she does not notice when Oliver strides into her office without knocking. She practically jumps out of her skin when he finally greets her, but he smiles charmingly enough that she begins to forget why she rolls her eyes whenever he comes to see her…and then he produces a black arrow and tells Felicity that he needs to find out where it came from for his buddy Steve’s birthday.

 

Come on, Oliver. It’s Christmas. Just say Christmas.

 

He covers by saying that archery is all the rage now. Felicity agrees, although she proceeds to opine that archery looks utterly ridiculous to her. “Yeah, well, computers look ridiculous to me, but you don’t hear me making fun of you!” Oliver yelps indignantly.

 

“Are you crying?” asks Felicity, concerned at his outburst.

 

“I’m not crying,” answers Oliver, “I’m just allergic to jerks.”

 

“You are so lucky that you’re cute,” she mutters. Oliver hands over the arrow and only slightly seems like an axe murderer as he warns her that it’s sharp. Felicity tracks the arrow down via its patent in approximately two seconds.

 

“Felicity,” says Oliver warmly, “you’re remarkable.”

 

“Actually, that was literally so easy that I kind of judge you for not being able to do it yourself,” she responds, “but thank you for remarking.”

 

He wishes her a Merry Christmas on his way out, but he stops in his tracks when she informs him that she’s Jewish. “What are your thoughts on Chrismakkuh if you marry a Gentile?” he inquires.

 

“Who with the what now?” she asks.

 

“Happy Hanukkah,” he says hastily, then bustles out of the office to go cry into a pint of mint chip about what a doofus he is.

Edited May 30, 2015 by tv echo

[Chaser]

I enjoy Laura Hurley's write ups for two reasons: 1) I generally agree with her viewpoint and 2) They are articulate. Even if I disagree with the opinion, I understand the framework. I can't take some of these other critics seriously (cough ksite/greenarrowtv cough). 

 

Regarding reason 2, I have a similar feeling about this forum. I don't agree with everything posted here, but there is generally a lot of thought and respect put into the discussion. It's nice. 

[tv echo]

'Arrow' Season 4 Spoilers: 7 Burning Questions We Need Answered After Season 3 Finale
Peter Anthony , Design & Trend
May, 30, 2015, 01:11 PM
http://www.designntrend.com/articles/52559/20150530/arrow-season-4-spoilers-7-burning-questions-we-need-answered-after-season-3-finale.htm

[tv echo]

jbuffyangel is also going back and recapping past seasons' episodes.  I'm not going to post them all here, but here's her latest - a recap of 1x05 (love all her animated gifs!)...

 

TELL ME LIES: DAMAGED ARROW 1X05 REVIEW

MAY 31, 2015 @ 07:05

http://jbuffyangel.tumblr.com/post/120344889618/tell-me-lies-damaged-arrow-1x05-review

 

    

 

Oh, and here's her recent recap of 1x03 (the first Felicity episode!)...

 

THE SPARK: LONE GUNMEN ARROW 1X03 REVIEW

MAY 25, 2015 @ 04:47

http://jbuffyangel.tumblr.com/post/119838512643/the-spark-lone-gunmen-arrow-1x03-review

 

   

Edited May 31, 2015 by tv echo

[olicityfan25]

I never noticed that before. Maybe LL will end up with Ray. Rofl

Oliver and Felicity just look like they belong together.

[jaytee1812]

Oliver and Felicity just look like they belong together.

I always think they look like a couple where the woman's self esteem is so low she think he is the best she can do.

[Lokiberry]

I always think they look like a couple where the woman's self esteem is so low she think he is the best she can do.

LOL, she's already captured the attention of 3 superheroes, I'm pretty sure she knows Oliver's not the only fish in sea. Or mask in the Flarrowverse.

[jaytee1812]

LOL, she's already captured the attention of 3 superheroes, I'm pretty sure she knows Oliver's not the only fish in sea. Or mask in the Flarrowverse.

And yet she sticks with the one who treats her like dirt.

It'll be interesting to see if the explore who Felicity's father is. I suspect we'll see like mother, like daughter.

[lemotomato]

And yet she sticks with the one who treats her like dirt.

It'll be interesting to see if the explore who Felicity's father is. I suspect we'll see like mother, like daughter.

Oliver hasn't treated Felicity any worse than how he treats his friends, family members, and allies. So I guess they all have low self esteem/are masochists to continue to maintain relationships with him. 

Edited May 31, 2015 by lemotomato

[FurryFury]

Oliver hasn't treated Felicity any worse than how he treats his friends, family members, and allies. So I guess they all have low self esteem/are masochists to continue to maintain relationships with him.

 

I do think he treats everyone around him pretty badly, TBH, so yeah, Felicity's not special in this regard. I generally feel like the fandom is way too forgiving of Oliver.

Although I wouldn't go as far as to say he's been treating them "like dirt"... but then, I haven't seen season 3.

[tarotx]

Taking this to the Oliver thread...

Edited May 31, 2015 by tarotx

[catahoulamama]

I do think he treats everyone around him pretty badly, TBH, so yeah, Felicity's not special in this regard. I generally feel like the fandom is way too forgiving of Oliver.

Although I wouldn't go as far as to say he's been treating them "like dirt"... but then, I haven't seen season 3.

I think alot of that "forgiveness" in the fandom is due to the fact that Oliver looks like Stephen Amell.  A dude who looks like *that* gets away with a helluva lot more (in life and in fiction) than a pudgy milquetoast.

[olicityfan25]

Going back pages and seeing the talk about the season 3 poster is quite eye opening. They really did sideline Diggle for her. He was behind her in the poster and he got sidelined with not being out in the field because of her. Then they paired them up like they had a relationship lol.

[tv echo]

I'm posting this article here because I'm only interested in the new DC costume design for comics GA - and the possibility that it might influence Oliver's new costume in S4 of Arrow...

 

Comparing DC's New Costumes To Their Movie & TV Counterparts
Andrew Steinbeiser- 05/31/2015
http://comicbook.com/2015/05/30/comparing-dcs-new-costumes-to-their-movie-tv-counterparts/

DC unveiled several new costume designs for their comic line in recent weeks, many of which bear at least some similarity to the costumes appearing in Batman V. Superman: Dawn of Justice, The Flash or Arrow. Let’s compare some of DC’s upcoming costume changes to the costumes appearing in DC’s television and movie slate to see if there’s any similarities.
*  *  *

 

Green Arrow’s costume has also shifted closer to the character’s appearance on Arrow, with a hood and domino mask similar to his look on the CW show. The Arrow’s hood is fastened to the rest of his costume via a short vest that extends over the top of his shoulder to the end of the pectorals. Similarly, Green Arrow’s new comic outfit also has a vest that appears to connect to his chest. Green Arrow’s new costume has bare arms and appears to be made of a sort of armor-like material, whereas the Arrow’s television costume is made almost entirely of leather.

Edited June 1, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

I decided to post jbuffyangel's new recap of 1x04 because it features the first time Diggle took a swing at Oliver ;) ...

 

ORIGINAL TEAM ARROW: AN INNOCENT MAN ARROW 1X04 REVIEW
jbuffyangel  MAY 27, 2015 @ 01:44
http://jbuffyangel.tumblr.com/post/120004684248/original-team-arrow-an-innocent-man-arrow-1x04

 

 

  
 

ETA: I think these new S1 episode recaps are interesting because we now know what happens afterwards (in S2 and S3) and because both Laura Hurley and jbuffyangel reference (and even compare) later developments in their recaps. 

Edited June 1, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

No surprise - I agree with all 10 of her points...

 

Arrow: 10 Ways That Season 3 Went Wrong
Laura Hurley  3 hours ago
http://whatculture.com/tv/arrow-10-ways-that-season-3-went-wrong.php

 

10.  Marginalizing Oliver
9.  Splitting Team Arrow
8.  Birth of the Black Canary
7.  Palmer Island
6.  Writing for the "Gotcha!"
5.  Sacrificing Characterization
4.  Treatment of the Ladies
3.  Underwhelming Villains
2.  Meandering Flashbacks
1.  Depressing

Far too many of the major arcs were facilitated by creating characters du jour rather than writing them with any consistency. Laurel wanted to be Black Canary to quench the fire within her…and to honor her sister…and because she was always destined for the mask. Oliver had to face Ra’s al Ghul because Malcolm had video of Thea killing Sara as leverage…except he knew all along that Malcolm was bluffing…and he needed to save Malcolm from Nanda Parbat… except he really just wanted to face Ra’s again. Roy saw Malcolm as a monster who needed to stay away from Thea…except when Thea liked him…or when Malcolm wanted to join forces with Team Arrow.
*  *  *
Superheroine extraordinaire Sara Lance was shot full of arrows, knocked off of a rooftop, banged into a dumpster on the way down, and landed in a dirty alley on her head. Laurel Lance was shoved into Sara’s vacant mask before the brain matter could be wiped off because apparently the Lance sisters are as interchangeable as vigilantes as they were bedmates to Oliver. Felicity was rewritten to facilitate the story of a man who stalked her, belittled her, and denied her credit that she was professionally due. Nyssa was forced by her father to marry Oliver with the understanding that she would bear him children ASAP, then forced to kneel before the man who had ordered the death of her beloved. Thea was violated by her father as he drugged her, brainwashed her, and forced her to murder Sara. ... Huzzah for feminism.

Edited June 2, 2015 by tv echo

[statsgirl]

She does a really good analysis of the show.  I hope the Writers Room is listening.

 

The first episode of Season 3 saw the death of Canary 1.0 Sara Lance. In the third, Laurel sought out the help of a boxer. By the end of the tenth, Laurel was bedecked in leather, wearing a mask, and delivering quips as she smacked thugs around. The tenth episode.

It should have taken longer than seven episodes for all of the custom buckles for her suit to arrive in the mail. Rushing Laurel into an effective Black Canary marginalized the journeys of Oliver and Sara as vigilantes, strained suspensions of disbelief to the breaking point, and made no sense within the narrative.

++++++

Unfortunately, instead of embracing the dark side and letting the evil flag fly, Arrow watered down its main villains to the point that Oliver’s self-sabotaging was more generally irksome than their acts of violence. Ra’s scored some nice evil points by skewering first Oliver and then Thea, but he was mostly just a temperamental irritant who liked to have his way. Matt Nable did what he could with the role, but the writing wasn’t there for Ra’s to be properly scary.

+++++++

Unfortunately, instead of embracing the dark side and letting the evil flag fly, Arrow watered down its main villains to the point that Oliver’s self-sabotaging was more generally irksome than their acts of violence. Ra’s scored some nice evil points by skewering first Oliver and then Thea, but he was mostly just a temperamental irritant who liked to have his way. Matt Nable did what he could with the role, but the writing wasn’t there for Ra’s to be properly scary.

 

[tennisgurl]

That was a great overview of everything that went wrong this season! I want to take the whole article, make copies, and throw them into the writers room. 

[kismet]

Hurley -

"Sadly, the closest that Season 3 came to Ollie learning Mandarin was Ollie fumbling with a Mandarin-to-English dictionary while referring to the language as “Chinese,” and his tattoos are still absent. Of course, there are presumably not many viewers who sat down for Season 3 hoping for twenty episodes of Oliver memorizing rules of syntax while picking out images for his abs, but more needed to actually happen in the flashbacks. The Yamashiros made for a compelling family, and the duel between Tatsu and Maseo was one of the high points of the final few episodes, but the disconnect between past and present for the majority of the season took its toll."

Great review as usual. Hit on a lot of the points most of us have made. Sadly, I think watching OQ memorize Mandarin & pick out tattoos might have been a more interesting plot than some of the other filler they threw into the FB. Loved Tatsu & Maseo, but man did those FB drag on or seem pointless at times.