The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[johntfs]

4 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

And that's what should have happened to Laurel, if she had been anyone else.  Failed characters get written out in the first season all the time.  But noooooo, not Laurel.  That's what will never cease to annoy me.

I feel less harshly about that.  I think promises were made to Katie Cassidy about her role within the show.  The showrunners likely sketched out a bible of the relationship between Laurel and Oliver that likely covered two-three seasons before filming even began.  It's not like it was on The West Wing, where Janel Maloney was supposed to be a frequent guest-star.  They filmed episodes one and two, started filming episode three and this blond Canadian day player doing a bit part stole Stephen Amell's heart (acting wise) seized the network executives' attention and pretty much forced the showrunners to rewrite a good bit of Season One around a character they'd never expected would exist past episode three.

Laurel Lance was supposed to be Black Canary and I think the showrunners really wanted to keep Katie on the show because she was supposed to be the main love interest/partner to Oliver except that Cyclone Felicity struck the show.

[Velocity23]

From the word on the streets it wasnt the showrunners who wanted to keep Katie, they actually wanted to replace her. But it came down to interference from the network. 

[LeighAn]

40 minutes ago, johntfs said:

I feel less harshly about that.  I think promises were made to Katie Cassidy about her role within the show.  The showrunners likely sketched out a bible of the relationship between Laurel and Oliver that likely covered two-three seasons before filming even began.  It's not like it was on The West Wing, where Janel Maloney was supposed to be a frequent guest-star.  They filmed episodes one and two, started filming episode three and this blond Canadian day player doing a bit part stole Stephen Amell's heart (acting wise) seized the network executives' attention and pretty much forced the showrunners to rewrite a good bit of Season One around a character they'd never expected would exist past episode three.

Laurel Lance was supposed to be Black Canary and I think the showrunners really wanted to keep Katie on the show because she was supposed to be the main love interest/partner to Oliver except that Cyclone Felicity struck the show.

Yeah you make it sound like the writers didn't want Felicity but were forced to keep her when as Velocity said according to the paps the writers actually tried to get rid of Katie in both season one and two but the network wanted her. That's why the write Felicity as the female lead and heart of the show and write Laurel Lance/Black Canary/Black Siren as glorified passive agressive wall paper .... when their not trying to kill her off :D

[theOAfc]

On 31/5/2017 at 11:49 PM, Starfish35 said:

1.  A Green Arrow and Black Canary (reformed Black Siren) romance ("...as they fight crime together, alone in Seattle.")

Thats a fine example of someone who doesnt give a frack about the show and whats presented on screen and wants their comic canon ship forced no matter what. Id suggest these comic canon shippers  go and read a fanfic about Lauriver insted of asking for dellusional and irrational headcanons to be made into show canon(The irony is that these are probably the same people that jump to scream "soap opera" and "fanservice" whenever the show writes for olicity,a show canon established dynamic since season 1).

[Mellowyellow]

Just watched 319 again (and swooned when the two very handsome boys teamed up to save Felicity! And you people hate S3!!!!Shame on you!!!). Oliver was actually really nice to Ray after he lost contact with the suit. Told him to get up, fight back, gave Ray a speech about being a hero, encouraged him.

Compared to those clips posted with Laurel! Bahahahahahahaha I don't even need to bring out Felicity for a comparison! I can use her S3 LI who Oliver is more supportive of than he is with Laurel! 

Methinks Ray and Oliver have a better chance at a more successful ship than Lauriver! After all Ray is very similar to Felicity =P

Edited June 3, 2017 by Mellowyellow

[Velocity23]

Ray deserved to be smacked again. 

[johntfs]

5 hours ago, LeighAn said:

Yeah you make it sound like the writers didn't want Felicity but were forced to keep her when as Velocity said according to the paps the writers actually tried to get rid of Katie in both season one and two but the network wanted her. That's why the write Felicity as the female lead and heart of the show and write Laurel Lance/Black Canary/Black Siren as glorified passive agressive wall paper .... when their not trying to kill her off :D

I don't mean to make it sound that way.  Green Arrow has been around since 1941.  He's been featured only rarely in formats outside of comic books.  The first time he was in live action was in Smallville, where he was a bit of a second/third banana.  Arrow was the first time fans of the comic would get to see their hero and his relationships, especially with Black Canary, take center stage.  And the this Felicity person comes in and yanks the rug out from under them. 

In the movie, Twilight, there's a character called "Biology Class Student."  Imagine the fan freakout if Kristen Stewart had decided she wanted Bella to gravitate to "Biology Class Student" instead of Jacob or Edward and the studio had gone along with that idea.  There'd still be vampires and werewolves but the movie series would center around Bella and her great love for "Biology Class Student."  That's what a lot of Green Arrow comic fans feel happened.  I think the studio kept Katie around as long as they did to maintain the comic canon while still recognizing that the Oliver/Felicity romance was by far more interesting to most of the fans.

[Velocity23]

Well there was Chloe with Green Arrow on Smallville. 

[Delphi]

I don't think it was just Stephen who became memorized by Emily.   Marc has mentioned,  a lot by the way,  how they were shown slides of episodes 3 and how the chemistry was just off the charts and they quickly tried to lock Emily down.   I myself was on the fence and about to dump Arrow before Emily showed up on my screen.  

I'm not going to blame Emily for saving the show. 

[Velocity23]

Even Kreisbeg who held on to GA/BC for the longest time said that the show found their identity when Felicity joined Oliver and Diggle in the lair. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

But apparently the Network wanted to keep Katie because it was her. She has had a relationship with the CW for years and it's also how she found out about the role. I don't think the network cared about canon, or the fictional story the EPs and writers were telling, it was BTS stuff.

[tv echo]

I can understand the unhappiness of GA/BC fans who wanted to see the live action version of that relationship. But the Arrow EPs made the mistake of casting KC as Laurel in the first place. I would not have continued to watch Arrow in S1 if Felicity hadn't been introduced and if the OTA dynamic hadn't developed. Without those two things, I would've written Arrow off as another CW drama with its Oliver/Laurel/Tommy love triangle, just with more action and bows and arrows.

I love Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice. I imagine that I'd be pretty upset if they did a TV series about the book, but made Charlotte into Darcy's main love interest instead of Eliza Bennet.  However, if they cast someone as Eliza who had zero chemistry with Darcy and then cast someone as Charlotte who had mega chemistry with Darcy, I hope that I'd appreciate the change. Also, there's only one true version of Pride and Prejudice - not multiple, different versions (including a version where Eliza and Darcy aren't even together).

I remember when the 1992 Last of the Mohicans movie came out, starring Daniel Day-Lewis and Madeline Stowe. I initially refused to see the movie because I loved the book and hated how much the movie deviated from the book (making Hawkeye a contemporary of the Mohican son rather than the Mohican father, and changing Cora from Uncas' love interest to Hawkeye's love interest, etc.).  However, after some time passed and I finally saw the movie, I learned to appreciate the movie on its own merits.

Sometimes you just have to separate the source material from the adaptation in your mind, and appreciate each separately.

[tv echo]

Some past Andrew Kreisberg comments...

-- TV Line (Apr. 21, 2013) - AK: "[Felicity] is our secret weapon that we didn’t even know we had."

-- EW (Jan. 10, 2016, updated Mar. 24, 2017) - AK: "We were blessed with The Flash, which came out of the gate fully formed in a way that Arrow didn’t. Arrow took awhile to find itself. Arrow needed Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards) which it didn’t have early on, and it had voiceover, which it didn’t need. Whereas The Flash came out like The Flash — you can watch the pilot and the finale back to back and it’s the same show.”

-- Entertainment Weekly (Oct. 7, 2016) - AK: "We were really blessed with The Flash — The Flash came out fully formed; that show knew what it was very early on. The experience of Supergirl is more akin to the experience we had on Arrow, where we knew there was a great show in there, and every once in awhile we made a great one, but it wasn’t until the back half of that first season — and certainly the beginning of season 2 — that we really felt like we had a handle of what that show was creatively."

Edited June 3, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

What Does the Arrow Season 5 Finale Mean For Olicity?
Russ Burlingame- 06/02/2017
http://comicbook.com/dc/2017/06/02/what-does-the-arrow-season-5-finale-mean-for-olicity-/

Quote

In the season 5 finale, there were a lot of meaningful pauses and looks, plus a kiss -- to which Oliver essentially responded that this was to be continued.

Meanwhile, the mother of Oliver's child -- who effectively broke the pair up, albeit accidentally, by demanding that Oliver keep the child secret from anyone and everyone -- seemed surprised to see the pair no longer together, and slightly put out by the fact that they were ignoring their obvious feelings for one another.

That kiss, and Oliver's response, didn't mean nothing.

Oliver finally seeming to come to a mature version of a realtionship [sic] recently -- and saying things like "let's talk about this more later" instead of allowing everything to become an all-consuming crisis, is a good sign for the show's flagship relationship.

After a full-court press of Olicity -- either the pair being IN the relationship or drama adjacent to it, from fights and breakups to bigger-picture stuff like supervillains targeting her -- in season 4, Arrow dialed it way back in season 5, reaching the point where most viewers were begging for some closure on what happened between the two between seasons.
*  *  *
The organic development and mature dynamic between the two in the last handful of episodes has really shown that when the relationship picks back up in the fall, it has potential to grow and develop in a different way than the toxic, self-sabotaging way it played out in seasons 3 and 4.
*  *   *  
That could be even more difficult if Samantha Clayton (William's mom) is among the dead or injured on Lian Yu; the season ended with a massive chain reaction of explosions on the island, and while Oliver and William are safe, literally no one else's fate is assured....
*  *  *
Samantha would be a wildcard, and if something happened to her, what happens next to William -- and by extension pretty much Oliver's entire personal life -- could be completely up in the air. That, though, wouldn't necessarily mean anything bad for Olicity as an older, more mature Oliver facing parental responsibilities is more likely to turn to someone he knows he can trust to help him with the task than push her away for...Arrow reasons.

In any event, after a season "away" from the Olicity romance, it seems likely (but isn't guaranteed) that season 6 will once again revisit the reationship [sic], this time thorugh [sic] the lens of Oliver and Felicity's new headspace. On the face of it, that seems like it can only be a good thing...!

Edited June 3, 2017 by tv echo

[statsgirl]

Who is that man and what has he done with the real Russ Burlingame?

9 hours ago, johntfs said:

I feel less harshly about that.  I think promises were made to Katie Cassidy about her role within the show.  The showrunners likely sketched out a bible of the relationship between Laurel and Oliver that likely covered two-three seasons before filming even began.   [snip]

Laurel Lance was supposed to be Black Canary and I think the showrunners really wanted to keep Katie on the show because she was supposed to be the main love interest/partner to Oliver except that Cyclone Felicity struck the show.

Colin Donnell also had promises made to him, most notably in his seven year contract, matching that of Stephen Amell and Katie Cassidy.  The show was originally sold to the CW as a superhero version of The Vampire Diaries based on Oliver/Laurel/Tommy.  And yet Donnell was out at the end of the first season.

As others have said, the EPs wanted to get rid of Katie Cassidy after the pilot but the network insisted on keeping her. It wasn't until season four that MG etc. received permission to kill Laurel.  But you can see that from the start they wanted to find a different love interest for Oliver by the parade of possible new love interests (Helena, McKenna) that stopped when they settled on Felicity. But as MG said, they had to play out Oliver/Laurel before they could see what was going to develop with him and Felicity so s1 ended with the Oliver/Laurel/Tommy triangle and betrayal of Tommy.

So many people have asked why they didn't chem test SA and KC before casting them.  It's my conspiracy theory that the network bought the show based on KC having the role of Laurel if she wanted it. The EPs knew that SA was going to make the show for them and they wanted  him.  If the chem test failed, the one who would be out was SA and they didn't want that so they skipped the chem test thinking "How bad can it be?"  Turns out, it was very bad and the show is still trying to get out from under it.

[LeighAn]

Shut up Russ with your "toxic self sabotaging" and your "not garunteed" Kay? Thanks.

[formerlyfreedom]

Let's get back to topic, please.

[statsgirl]

DCN Exclusive Interview: Emily Bett Rickards – Felicity Smoak From ‘Arrow’

Quote

DCN: Is there anyone you’d love to work with?

EBR: On Arrow?

DCN: On anything. Is there anyone you’d love to act with?

EBR: Stanley Tucci. He’s amazing.

DCN: He’s downstairs! Maybe you can get the ball rolling.

EBR: He’s Stanley Tucci! (She looks at me, eyes wide in awe and respect for the veteran actor),  I can’t just go up and talk to him.

DCN: That’s exactly how I felt about coming up and talking to you, and to everyone who’s here today.

EBR: That’s actually kind of funny, isn’t it?

DCN: It’s actually really, really cool and very humbling.

EBR: We may be on TV and everything, but there are people that we’re fans of too.

DCN: I know you’re asked hundreds of questions at every event you attend, you’ve probably been asked some questions a thousand times. Is there a question you wish someone would ask you? Something you’d like to answer.

EBR: No, not really. I like answering stuff because, mostly the questions are nice and fairly straightforward.

DCN: Is there anything you’d like your fans to know about you?

EBR: I love the fans. They’re the ones that make it possible to do what I do. Look at this place! Five years of Arrow… all the stuff that’s led to. That’s all down to the people that watch the shows.

DCN: But it’s also down the fine work of the people that make the shows… people like you. Thank you!

EBR: Thanks!

Seeing Emily star-struck at the mere mention of speaking to Stanley Tucci was a revelation. Here I was, mind blown at meeting people that I think are amazing, and one of those very people shows me that she’s a fan too!

It’s very easy to forget sometimes that our heroes are human beings. They may be famous, they may be celebrities but they’re people too. This whole experience has been a joy, and an education.

Edited June 4, 2017 by statsgirl

[insomniadreams88]

You know, I wonder what these lists and articles would look like if Laurel hadn't been named Laurel but they had kept everything else the same - backstory, having her become BC, etc. - and then killed her off and then brought in Dinah this season as the new BC too. What would the comic sites say then? No one would be talking about a Black Siren redemption story probably. Suddenly Dinah would probably be their new fave. We probably wouldn't read anything about how Oliver and this character who is dead supported each other. 

[theOAfc]

This guy Russ needs to stop using olicity for clickbait. He doesnt get to talk about Olicity being toxic considering he is a GA/BC fanboy. Worst part is Guggie values this guy's opinions judging by his twitter account. 

[wonderwall]

59 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

You know, I wonder what these lists and articles would look like if Laurel hadn't been named Laurel but they had kept everything else the same - backstory, having her become BC, etc. - and then killed her off and then brought in Dinah this season as the new BC too. What would the comic sites say then? No one would be talking about a Black Siren redemption story probably. Suddenly Dinah would probably be their new fave. We probably wouldn't read anything about how Oliver and this character who is dead supported each other. 

Goes to show how shallow these people are. They don't care about the story, they just care about the name...

[Primal Slayer]

These people put 4 years into the character, it is no surprise that they care about her. 

[Velocity23]

I would say they invested in the character for 1,5 years tops. Because all this comic site downright didnt like LL until she put on the mask. 

[wonderwall]

All I know is, most people who are singing her praise right now didn't give a crap about her in season 1-2 and actually wanted her to die (and that includes comic websites)... So I wouldn't say they put 4 years into the character. They barely cared about her until she got that mask which shows me they really don't care about the character behind it, they just care about the mask and the legacy (from the comics) that goes with that. So I stand by my statement when I say they're shallow AF lol

Edited June 4, 2017 by wonderwall

[shadow2008]

1 hour ago, insomniadreams88 said:

You know, I wonder what these lists and articles would look like if Laurel hadn't been named Laurel but they had kept everything else the same - backstory, having her become BC, etc. - and then killed her off and then brought in Dinah this season as the new BC too. What would the comic sites say then? No one would be talking about a Black Siren redemption story probably. Suddenly Dinah would probably be their new fave. We probably wouldn't read anything about how Oliver and this character who is dead supported each other. 

If Laurel hadn't been named Laurel, she would have been dead at the end of season 2 and Sara would have become the real Black Canary. 

[lemotomato]

37 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

These people put 4 years into the character, it is no surprise that they care about her. 

They care so much about her that they eagerly look forward to her evil doppleganger-- who is nothing like the character they watched in the last 4 years except for looks-- replacing her.

[LeighAn]

Honestly I think their legitimacy for belief and investment in the comics and canon is thrown out the window when they dismiss Dinah as a fake canary when technically she is more  closer to comic canon Black Canary then Laurel ever was *shrug*

[tv echo]

While at Puerto Rico Comic Con on May 27, DR did an interview with El Nuevo Dia - here is the English translation provided by Google (obviously filled with mistakes in translation - "John Deagle")...

David Ramsey enjoys his transition from "Dexter" to "Arrow"
May 31, 2017 - By Melba Brugueras
http://www.elnuevodia.com/entretenimiento/tv/nota/davidramseydisfrutasutransiciondedexteraarrow-2326310/

Quote

About the acceptance of "Arrow" around the world Ramsey commented that "I think the popularity of the series, is due to the human history that surrounds. That is, today we are in Puerto Rico and before we visit Vancouver and Los Angeles. All series (The CW), 'Dexter', 'Flash', 'Legends of Tomorrow' have touched the public by the human element. 
*  *  *
On "John Deagle," the main character in the series, Ramsey stressed that the most he likes (and most displeases him) is "his sense of loyalty," he said with a laugh.

Ramsey confessed that there are similarities between "Deagle" and his person.

"We are both familiar, we like to be in the family. We love the concept of the family together, "reiterated the proud father of little David, Jr. whom he affectionately calls" DJ. " The child is currently six years old and in his free time, what he does most is to share with him.

"'DJ' is my life," said the actor with a smile to the skin.
*  *  *
"'John Deagle' has a particular metal voice, and a very peculiar way of walking. So I have to concentrate a lot on those two aspects before I get into character. It takes a lot of discipline and concentration to talk like him, to sound like him, to walk like him, "he explained.

For Ramsey to do all the scenes of "Arrow" it is difficult because in the majority of them it interacts with the actors Stephen Amell ("Oliver Queen" / "Arrow") and John Barrowman ("Malcom Merlyn"), "and they make me Laugh all the time. "
*  *  *
"Stephen is amazing. He is an excellent leader and his leading role in 'Arrow' is more than deserved. No one imagined the impact that the series has and partly that impact is due to him. Stephen was the man to incarnate 'Arrow'. He arrived at the right time and at the right place, "he said.
*  *  *
When comparing his experiences in "Arrow" and "Dexter" -series that issued Showtime from 2006 to 2013- Ramsey said that "in both of them I have had the opportunity to grow professionally."

"In 'Dexter' I worked with a group of extraordinary professionals. Better than it was, 'Dexter', impossible. It was a phenomenal project. 'Arrow', on the other hand, took me to another level, "said the 44-year-old actor.
*  *  *
"Many actors, we spend 14, 16 hours a day working on a set, and our interpretations, our fantasy stories, sometimes touch the audience closely. So, when that audience comes to this type of event, not only have the opportunity to see their favorite series actors and movies. They also have the opportunity to portray with them and even have some physical contact. Let's say for many of those fans, it's an experience they never thought they would experience, "he said.
*  *  *
"San Juan is a beautiful city and I had no idea it was like this. I plan to return to Puerto Rico. I loved it! "He finished.

Edited June 5, 2017 by tv echo

[Cleanqueen]

 I just want to throw a dictionary at some of these folks.. DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT THE DEFINITION OF TOXIC IS?

People can call Olicity annoying or just bothersome if they don't like how it was handled,but they need to stop throwing around that term like it means nothing. Toxicity in a relationship involves physical, mental and emotional abuse, cheating and manipulations. Olicity was neither of those. Two people who wanted to be with each other but were not fully ready or decided once they got together that there was lack of trust because one individual didn't know how to trust themselves actually shows how honest and healthy that relationship is. 

And it's damaging and offensive to people who went through actual abuse who happen to like the couple and deem them inspirational to have to hear these words thrown out loosely. 

[apinknightmare]

I see people throwing around the toxic relationship and ~emotionally abusive claims a lot over on reddit, and they seem to think this because Felicity walked out on Oliver right after she saw Oliver filming a goodbye video to Myson, and also because she was angry that he lied to her about him when it was "none of her business." 

[leopardprint]

14 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I see people throwing around the toxic relationship and ~emotionally abusive claims a lot over on reddit, and they seem to think this because Felicity walked out on Oliver right after she saw Oliver filming a goodbye video to Myson, and also because she was angry that he lied to her about him when it was "none of her business." 

Another explanation I've seen is that because Oliver suffers from PTSD and other trauma, Felicity calling him out on his BS is emotionally abusive.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Apparently, poor, traumatized Oliver gets to do and say whatever he wants but Felicity, who has lived a totally charmed life free of any suffering, should just take it. 

Edited June 5, 2017 by leopardprint

[Featherhat]

16 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I see people throwing around the toxic relationship and ~emotionally abusive claims a lot over on reddit, and they seem to think this because Felicity walked out on Oliver right after she saw Oliver filming a goodbye video to Myson, and also because she was angry that he lied to her about him when it was "none of her business." 

No just that he was begging her to get married in a couple of days whilst knowing MM knew about his son and *still* didn't tell her, which they have now (sort of) talked out and (sort of) semi resolved. I think some of them think if they talk long and hard enough about it, it will become an accepted "fact" of the show.

But anyone that wants BS/GA whilst talking about toxic Olicity seriously?

That would be the final nail in the coffin for OQ's "great love" for LL. First he cheats on her with her sister (with the intention of going on a weeks long cruise with her, so it wasn't a momentary mistake, was barely sympathetic to her alcoholism "crucible", was barely sympathetic to her POV when Sara returned, started up a relationship with Sara knowing LL was upset, (flashforward) all of Olicity S3-4, S5 finds a replacement BC with her/her mother's name and we're all set to go again, S6 "redeems" her evil doppelganger and starts a relationship with her? Yeah that's not toxic or and shows how deeply GA is only in love with LL as BC, that's a regular sweet lovestory right there./sarcasm.

Another explanation I've seen is that because Oliver suffers from PTSD and other trauma, Felicity calling him out on his BS is emotionally abusive.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Apparently, poor, traumatized Oliver gets to do and say whatever he wants but Felicity, who has lived a totally charmed life free of any suffering, should just take it. 

Um, LL spent the majority of her 4 years on the show being an antagonist to Oliver, even when she script called for her to be more sympathetic in tone, she always managed to make it as bitchy as possible. Sometimes he deservered it, sometimes he didn't. But NONE of the characters on the show have lived trauma free lives. None.

Edited June 5, 2017 by Featherhat

[Starfish35]

53 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

 I just want to throw a dictionary at some of these folks.. DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT THE DEFINITION OF TOXIC IS?

What prompted this? What did I miss?

Edited June 5, 2017 by Starfish35

[Cleanqueen]

On 6/3/2017 at 11:20 AM, tv echo said:

The organic development and mature dynamic between the two in the last handful of episodes has really shown that when the relationship picks back up in the fall, it has potential to grow and develop in a different way than the toxic, self-sabotaging way it played out in seasons 3 and 4.

 

37 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

What prompted this? What did I miss?

The above comment from that Comicbook.com writer.

Edited June 5, 2017 by Cleanqueen

[Starfish35]

3 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

 

The above comment from that CBR writer.

Ahhh ok!  Thanks! I was scrolling up and trying to figure out what I missed, and didn't see it. :)

[statsgirl]

1 hour ago, Featherhat said:

But NONE of the characters on the show have lived trauma free lives. None.

Tbh Laurel has lived the most trauma-free life of anyone on the show that we know of (we don't know about Diggle).  She grew up in a loving two-parent middle class family and her beauty and brains probably paved the way for her in the prestigious prep school she went to. The first tragedy to touch her (other than her stupidity in staying with a boyfriend who cheated on her regularly) was when the Queen's Gambit went down and Sara and Oliver "died".

Using Laurel's age of 27 (the start of s1) as a baseline:

• Roy had a  missing father and drug-addicted mother who was gone by the time we meet him in his teens.  Mirakuru'd by Slade, has to live with the guilt of killing a cop, faked his death to save Oliver;
• Thea lost her father and brother when she was 12.  She was kidnapped twice in s2, dealt with having her mother on trial for the Undertaking, found out that Malcolm was her bio-dad and she had been lied to all her life, watched Slade murder her mother in front of her; went away with Malcolm and was trained by him via the hot wax method, found out that Malcolm had drugged her to murder her brother's friend;
• Tommy lost his mother when he was 8 and then was abandoned by his father, only to have him return and play mind games with Tommy;
• Oliver watched his father give him a burden, murder a man and then blow out his brains in front of Oliver (the grey matter must have been over everything in the boat).  Then he lived five years in hell;
• Sara almost drowned when the Queen's Gambit went down and was rescued by the Amazo only to live for a year in such circumstances that the show never states explicitly but indicates strongly that she was sexually abused among other things, survived for a year on Lian Yu and was saved by the LoA with their brand of nurturing such that she hated who she had become and felt the constant need to atone for it, killed by Oliver's sister because of Malcolm's manipulations;
• Felicity thought her father abandoned her at a young age, lived with a single mother who worked three jobs to support them but couldn't afford things like space camp, went to MIT at an early age and had a relationship with Cooper only to blame herself when he committed suicide (she thought) and hid herself following it, fell in love with Oliver only to be rejected by him and then mourn when she thought he had died.  Later they were happy together in spite of kidnappings etc until his car was shot up and she was paralyzed.  Depending on how old she is now, may or may not include her boyfriend being killed by Prometheus.

Did I miss anything? 

This is why I find it hard to feel that sorry for Laurel. The worst that happened to her was Sara's death, her parents divorce after she had already moved away from home, and dealing with her father's alcoholism (also when she was already living on her own).

[Starfish35]

I think we used to talk about this here, and some people made some really good posts about it.  It's not that Laurel hasn't had some bad things happen to her, but the problem is that usually we're seeing how much harder everyone else is having it, so when she starts feeling sorry for herself, it's hard to have sympathy. 

Like when she gets pulled over for drunk driving and she tells her dad that no one can understand how she feels.  Um, Laurel, how about the friends and family of the other 502 people that died in the Undertaking?  Or when Oliver rejects her come on, she whines about everyone leaving her.  Or when she stands outside Thea's hospital room, when it's 100% her fault that Thea is there, and attacks Oliver for not respecting her and considering her feelings (lololololol).  

Edited June 5, 2017 by Starfish35

[wonderwall]

Listing the traumas the characters have been through:

Oliver:

• Saw his father kill himself in front of him
• Tortured every day for 5 years (both physically and mentally)
• Saw Shado shot in front of him
• Saw his mother killed in front of him
• Lived through deaths of his friends (including Sara/Laurel)
• Got skewered himself and pushed down a cliff
• Saw all of his friends blow up
• Was tortured by Chase for 6 whole days
• Being blown up in 301
• Tommy died in front of his eyes

Thea:

• Lived through the death of Oliver, Robert
• Was mind raped by her biological father
• Saw her own mother murdered in front of her
• Lives with the fact that she murdered a friend
• Lazarus Pit side effects
• Got stabbed by Ra's
• Lived through the death of friends (Laurel)
• Roy left her
• She had a relationship with a psycho (DJ Douchebag)
• Found out Malcolm - a terrorist - was her father
• Gassed by Damien
• Almost blown up in 523

Diggle:

• Spent years in Afghanistan 
• Dealt with the deaths of friends
• Killed his own brother
• Had to deal with the death of his brother
• Thought they were going to die by Oliver's hands in season 3
• Gassed by Damien
• Almost blown up in 523

Felicity:

• Her father abandoned her at a very young age
• Went through Cooper's death twice
• Dealt with being shot by Damien's men
• Dealt with paralysis
• Dealt with the death of Oliver in season 3 and Ray then Laurel in season 4 
• Her boyfriend Billy died by the hands of Oliver
• Havenrock
• Shot at by the Clock King
• Being blown up in 301
• Thought they were going to die by Oliver's hands in season 3
• Kidnapped and touched by Vertigo (his hands were creepily on her)
• Gassed by Damien
• Almost blown up in 523

Laurel:

• Dealt with the death of Sara/Oliver
• Had the knowledge of Oliver cheating on her w/ her sister
• Saw Sara die in front of her
• Kidnapped by the dollmaker and various other villains
• Knows that Tommy died saving her
• Spent years with an alcoholic father
• Thought she was going to die by Oliver's hands in S3
• Poisoned by LoA

Edited June 6, 2017 by wonderwall

[Starfish35]

TVLine - 
Arrow Season 6: Almost Everyone Got Blown Up! — What Happens Next?

Quote

TVLine hits rewind on the TV season’s biggest “What Happens Next?” finales, then invites you to predict the cliffhanger outcomes.

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When Arrow Season 6 opens this fall (now airing Thursdays at 9/8c), who will be revealed to have survived Lian Yu’s most hellacious moment ever? And who — aside from Malcolm Merlyn and Digger Harkness (both of whom were already believed to have been killed by the land mine) — will be confirmed or presumed dead? That’s where the pair of polls below come in!

----

...choose up to NINE SURVIVORS and as many as FIVE CASUALTIES.

 

[Featherhat]

3 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

I think we used to talk about this here, and some people made some really good posts about it.  It's not that Laurel hasn't had some bad things happen to her, but the problem is that usually we're seeing how much harder everyone else is having it, so when she starts feeling sorry for herself, it's hard to have sympathy. 

Especially as the show was directly contrasting her "crucible" with her sister's. Sara (and Oliver) did a bad thing and paid dearly for it for the next 5-6 years. Laurel lost Tommy (and was kidnapped a lot) and her response it somewhat understandably to hit the booze and look for someone not herself to blame for a while, but it's nothing compared to the literal hellscape her sister went through and she wasn't asking anyone to give her a break on all the bad stuff she had done to survive, she mostly owned it and was willing to commit suicide to escape being an assassin again.

[Primal Slayer]

5 hours ago, wonderwall said:

Listing the traumas the characters have been through:

 

Laurel also thought  they were going to die by Oliver's hands in season 3.

Her mother skipped down and knew of her sister/boyfriends infidelities 

Poisoned by the LOA

Used as a pawn by her former bosses to get to Helena Bertlanti 

Almost blown up by Damien Darhk

Stabbed by Damien Darhk (its kind of a 50/50 thing since she survived his attack initially)

During Season 2 I was able to emphasize with Laurel during the whole Oliver/Sara thing since she was still dealing with her survivors remorse and wasn't fully aware of everything that had happened to Oliver and Sara. 

[wonderwall]

7 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Laurel also thought  they were going to die by Oliver's hands in season 3.

Her mother skipped down and knew of her sister/boyfriends infidelities 

Poisoned by the LOA

Used as a pawn by her former bosses to get to Helena Bertlanti 

Almost blown up by Damien Darhk

Stabbed by Damien Darhk (its kind of a 50/50 thing since she survived his attack initially)

During Season 2 I was able to emphasize with Laurel during the whole Oliver/Sara thing since she was still dealing with her survivors remorse and wasn't fully aware of everything that had happened to Oliver and Sara. 

Thanks!

I don't consider being stabbed by Damien a trauma because she died quickly after (if she lived then sure that's trauamtic). But when was she almost blown up by Damien? Also I don't consider being used as a pawn as traumatic. But I'll add the others to the list. 

Also I don't consider the mother skipping town when Laurel was legally an adult and on her way to college so I don't consider it traumatic. And her knowing about Sara/Oliver isn't traumatic.

Edited June 6, 2017 by wonderwall

[Primal Slayer]

Dealing with her father alone while her mother leaves town and the family seems traumatic to imo, it would be one thing if she were living a happy go lucky life but she pretty much had to rely on herself. But even if that wouldn't count, her mother revealing that she knew that her youngest daughter/eldest daughters bf were cheating together is a pretty big blow.

Werent her and Quentin in a building that DD set to explode?

[wonderwall]

3 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Dealing with her father alone while her mother leaves town and the family seems traumatic to imo, it would be one thing if she were living a happy go lucky life but she pretty much had to rely on herself. But even if that wouldn't count, her mother revealing that she knew that her youngest daughter/eldest daughters bf were cheating together is a pretty big blow.

 

That's why I listed dealing with her alcoholic father LOL

And finding out her mother knows I agree it's a big blow but it's not traumatic. IMO it's a rehash of dealing with S/O being together which I also listed

Edited June 6, 2017 by wonderwall

[Primal Slayer]

lol yeah but she didn't have her mother to lean on and could've lead to major trust issues but to each their own. It seemed to hold on to her (I equate it as part of her "why does everyone always leave me" speech)

Edited June 6, 2017 by Primal Slayer

[wonderwall]

1 minute ago, Primal Slayer said:

lol yeah but she didn't have her mother to lean on and could've lead to major trust issues but to each their own. It seemed to hold on to her (I equate it as part of her "why does everyone always leave me" speech)

But not having her mother around wasn't traumatic lol It sucked. but not traumatic.

[apinknightmare]

Being an adult child of divorce is unfortunate and sad, but not traumatic IMO. Especially since - unless I'm remembering wrong - I don't recall there being anything indicating that Dinah didn't want to have anything to do with Laurel or wasn't available to talk to, she just moved to another city? 

[Primal Slayer]

To me, if Sara hadn't died and Quentin wasnt an alcoholic, Dinah up and leaving wouldn't be a big deal. But coupled with Sara/Oliver death, Q turning to alcohol and then her mother leaving her to pick up the pieces coupled with her "why does everyone leave me" it got to her and effected her to a degree. I don't think it's a HUGE traumatic experience but small enough to cast doubt in herself.

I don't think we really got a sense of their relationship prior to S1 but they didn't really appear to be in a good place until Season 3/4 if memory serves correctly. 

Edited June 6, 2017 by Primal Slayer

[wonderwall]

Again - Sara dying and Quentin being an alcoholic - those are things that are traumatic. But not having anyone to lean on? Yeah that sucks. But that in itself isn't traumatic considering Dinah was always just a phone call away.

This is why I didn't put Felicity not having anyone to lean on in season 5 in the list...

Edited June 6, 2017 by wonderwall

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, Primal Slayer said:

I don't think we really got a sense of their relationship prior to S1 but they didn't really appear to be in a good place until Season 3/4 if memory serves correctly. 

Yeah, they did seem to bond over Laurel hiding Sara's death.