The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[LeighAn]

5 hours ago, tv echo said:

 

 

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I'm getting the impression of a warmer reception toward Tina than I would have expected.  

Remember your source here. 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I'm getting the impression of a warmer reception toward Tina than I would have expected.  

The responses under the new BC promo on twitter and FB tell a different story. I know it's only a portion of the audience but yikes. It's almost like the only thing fandom can agree on is that no one wants a new BC. Haha.

(Of course I still think some fans will like her simply because they want GA/BC no matter what. But that's for another discussion/thread!)

[LeighAn]

33 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

The responses under the new BC promo on twitter and FB tell a different story. I know it's only a portion of the audience but yikes. It's almost like the only thing fandom can agree on is that no one wants a new BC. Haha.

Yep it's weird to see comic dudebros and Olicity fans tweeting the same thing.

[Mellowyellow]

6 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Yep it's weird to see comic dudebros and Olicity fans tweeting the same thing.

The dudebros are not liking the smarmy angry chick in leather? Why ever not?

[Primal Slayer]

12 hours ago, tv echo said:

‘Arrow’ Mid-Season Premiere Review: “Who Are You?
Nora Dominick   January 30, 2017

... Katie Cassidy exceeds all expectations in this episode. First introduced in an episode of The Flash last season, Black Siren is the perfect addition to the Arrowverse and is a great example of an Earth 2 counterpart. Cassidy always played Laurel extremely well, but her work as Black Siren is simply extraordinary. She defies expectations and makes us miss Cassidy’s presence on Arrow even more. From the moment she reveals herself as Black Siren, Cassidy owns the episode.

http://emertainmentmonthly.com/index.php/arrow-review-who-are-you/

Katie was perfection in the episode, no lies detected. 

[BkWurm1]

4 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I have to disagree with that. Comics very much focus on the person behind the mask, at least the comics I've read.

I'd actually make the opposite statement. The people that only care about the mask and, not who is behind it, probably never read comics. 

 

3 hours ago, LeighAn said:

 

Remember your source here. 

Yes, I'm referencing people that post on that forum that shall not be named, but what shocked me was how several went from last week hating Tina and vowing to never accept her and she'll never be the BC or measure up to LL, to now saying while Laurel will always be their favorite BC, they aren't going to deprive themselves of a great new Canary if she walks the walk and talks the talk.  And won't she just come in and be a breath of fresh air!

I comfort myself since that's that same thing the showrunners said about Wild Dog. 

[ComicFan777]

From what I've read, some comic fans want to give Tina a chance because they've been really happy with this season so far with all the comic-booky stuff and want to see BC/GA and don't really have much options now that Laurel is dead - they will accept any canary now.  Another theory they've tossed around is that Tina is temporary nuBC while Black Siren gets redeemed, then the true canary will come back to fight beside GA because you know, Oliver wanted her close by to see if there is any "Laurel" left in her, so they seem to be ok with Tina being nuBC in the meantime.

Edited February 1, 2017 by ComicFan777

[insomniadreams88]

Just now, ComicFan777 said:

From what I've read, some comic fans want to give Tina a chance because they've been really happy with this season so far and want to see BC/GA and don't really have much options now that Laurel is dead - they will accept any canary now.  Another theory they've tossed around is that Tina is temporary nuBC while Black Siren gets redeemed, then the true canary will come back to fight beside GA because you know, Oliver wanted her close by to see if there is any "Laurel" left in her.

So do they expect them to just kick Tina off the team when BS is redeemed? "Oh, you've been fighting alongside us for months, (likely) helped us stop Prometheus, but we'd rather have this villain who worked for Prometheus and pretended to be our dead friend instead?" 

I'd be really interested to see what some people would have said if Arrow had decided to make Felicity the new BC and said she was the final one and going to be it until the end of the series. I don't want it to happen and I'm glad it's not, but would we be getting "Green Arrow needs Black Canary" then or would they be saying, "Green Arrow doesn't need BC" and "GA only needs BC if BC is LL"? My guess? The latter.

[ComicFan777]

Nope, they think Tina will become evil or get killed, then magically BS comes back as a redeemed superhero.

I did find it amusing though that when I was lurking in the forum that shall not be named, some mentioned that they were at the edge of their seats, at the end of episode 5.10 when Oliver was telling Felicity that he wanted to find a new canary and when he was gazing at Felicity with heart eyes for so long, they were holding their breath, thinking that he was going to ask her to be the new BC at that moment.  Funny that comic fans perpetuate the idea of Felicity being the nuBC even though MG shut down that thought every time.

Edited February 1, 2017 by ComicFan777

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, ComicFan777 said:

Funny that comic fans perpetuate the idea of Felicity being the nuBC even though MG shut down that thought every time.

Yeah, I've noticed that as well. The only reason the idea has ever even crossed my mind is because people that don't want it to happen keep bringing it up.  

[kismet]

Can't we just buy OQ & the lair a pet bird Canary with black feathers and call it a day?

[Sunshine]

I can't link but evidently IGN is advocating for giving Felicity and Diggle "a rest" after this season and letting the new team members take over.  Curtis makes Felicity expendable in their opinion.

[apinknightmare]

Here:

Quote

The Felicity/Diggle subplot is the only area where this episode struggled. The writers can’t seem to make up their minds as far as whether Diggle should be locked up or a free man. This week brought a swift end to his latest time behind bars, and the resolution was so sudden and easy that there was little dramatic impact. Whatever wrinkle the writers have planned next for Diggle needs to come soon, because this whole wrongful imprisonment storyline is beginning to drag.

As for Felicity, it’s tough to make sense of what direction the show is pushing her right now. Is she drifting away from Team Arrow and going back to her hacktivist ways? What’s the significance of this Helix group she’s become mixed up with? With Curtis more or less becoming the mobile version of Felicity these days, I’m not convinced the show really needs both characters any longer.I don’t know that it would be the worst idea to give both Felciity and Diggle a rest after this season and allow the newer Team Arrow members a chance to fill their shoes.

[calliope1975]

That's a cool perspective. I could then give myself a rest from ever viewing this show again. 

[insomniadreams88]

Nope. Doing that would be a huge mistake. Ship the newbies off and let OTA shine again. 

[MaisyDaisy]

Perhaps the comic dudebros can tell me who got the twitter trend tonight? 

I mean I know that going back to it's comic roots, ending Olicity and pushing Felicity towards her comic relief box totally was a hit ratings wise. With all that soooo popular, who trended again? Was it 'Arrow'? Perhaps 'Dinah' the iconic? Oh it must have been 'Oliver'- I mean the show is called Arrow, it couldn't have been anything else....right?

i mean at what point do we face he reality that Arrow went in a direction that lost a fair chunk of it's audience? 

[apinknightmare]

Just now, MaisyDaisy said:

Perhaps the comic dudebros can tell me who got the twitter trend tonight? 

Dinah Drake did trend for a couple of minutes, haha. Twitter had it at 1,030-something tweets though, and it fell off pretty quickly. Arrow's been trending all night, but it seems to be a real mixed bag of people just generally tweeting about the show, lots of Felicity, some mentions of Black Canary, some Tinah, some Laurel, and some Talia. 

[wonderwall]

5 minutes ago, MaisyDaisy said:

Perhaps the comic dudebros can tell me who got the twitter trend tonight? 

Dinah Drake trended with 1.7k tweets

vs

Felicity trended with 25k tweets

[Belinea]

Well the show does need Diggle and Felicity. The problem is that the writers have a really hard time writing storylines beyond origin. With new characters you can always go back to that question of where do you come from and who are you? As soon as that element is somewhat gone, they struggle to come up with creative, logical stories. Oliver is essentially repeating his storylines every season, Diggle should have more but not even the brother storyline was enough to make a compelling storyline. Felicity has so many story points (Goth, wheelchair, job, father, breakup--) but really none of them got explored. Thea is forgotten, Quentin as well. And Laurel got killed because they didn't know how to write her if she isn't a love interest because she wasn't what they wanted on all other levels. BTS stuff not included.

It seems to be easier for them to write new characters because they can do they same thing again and again but with new characters every time. At least that is how I regard their writing process at this point.

[BkWurm1]

The problem is trying too hard to explore the characters individually.  What makes them interesting is tossing them together and seeing how these different people work together.  We don't need a lot of separate story lines.  Just think how much better Diggle's story becomes when he interacts.  How much better tonight would have been if Felicity could have had Diggle along for her IRL meet up.  How much more satisfaction we would have had if Felicity got to tell him she got what she needed.  Even when they connect the stories this year, they still aren't connecting the characters and way before we explored the origins of Dig or Felicity, we got to connect to them and see them connect to Oliver.  An arc of their own isn't enough to make even fan favorites enough if they take away that parts of the show that worked.    

[EmilyBettFan]

I'm so tired of some people acting like Felicity and Diggle are not important. Get out of here with that shit.

[Morrigan2575]

Well they're not important, if they were they'd be from comics. Simple ?

[Trisha]

6 hours ago, MaisyDaisy said:

Perhaps the comic dudebros can tell me who got the twitter trend tonight?

I'm actually surprised that the comic dudebros' reception to Dinah is more positive than I was expecting. Yeah, MG's mentions were messy last night, but most of the comments on that IGN review were embracing her. I guess fanboys are easily won over by a hot girl in a leather jacket. 

[tv echo]

7 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

Here:

I'm getting whiplash...

Laurel (before the mask) - She sucks!
Laurel becomes Black Canary - She's awesome!
Laurel dies - She is THE Black Canary.
Laurel is replaced by Tina/Dinah as Black Canary - Meh, she wasn't all that.

[Morrigan2575]

That's pretty much it in a nutshell

[Midnight Lullaby]

Yeah robot Oliver and 233536 people that I don't even remember how they are called sounds like an awesome show! 

[tv echo]

A.V. Club has been loving S5 so far - and 511 is no exception to their tongue bath...

Arrow gave itself a second chance, and it’s making the most of it
By Alasdair Wilkins  Feb 2, 2017  1:45 AM
http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/arrow-gave-itself-second-chance-and-its-making-mos-249555

Quote

... Rebuilding Team Arrow has given Oliver a second chance to make a first impression as a crime fighter, and so far the results have been very, very impressive.
*  *  *
The message, repeated in both timeframes, is that nobody is ever lost forever, that there is always a way back from the darkness if a person is willing to fight their way out. “Second Chances” is intelligent in how it uses the past to inform the present here. In many episodes, the two timeframes directly mirror each other, with Oliver facing a threat that is similar to one he dealt with five years ago....

Rather, Oliver reaches out to Dinah because he already knows what she ends up having to learn through bitter experience: Vengeance offers little satisfaction and still less by way of healing. She may have gotten justice for her lover’s murder, but it’s a hollow victory, one that only lays plain how much she made these decisions for her own well-being and not for his memory. Which isn’t a bad thing! But it explains why, after all that, Dinah seeks out Oliver and accepts his offer to join the team, because all that’s really left for her is to try to move forward and build something in the future. It’s an open question how successful she will be. She is carrying years’ worth of trauma, and the reconfigured Team Arrow does consider that for every success like Rory there’s a failure like Evelyn. Dinah could go either way, and for all Oliver’s promises otherwise, it’s not difficult to see how this is all still wrapped up in his need to redeem himself after all the ways he failed Laurel.

While Oliver looks to the future, Felicity ends up having to reconsider her past. Given her nigh magical hacking abilities, it makes sense Felicity would be a bit of a legend on the dark web. Some of the criticisms leveled at her by her admirer ring true: Felicity has gone corporate, and even her work as Overwatch has an inherently authoritarian aspect that is hard to square with what she used to believe in. It’s hard to imagine anything good will come of Felicity’s clandestine return to some aspect of her old life, but I continue to welcome storylines where Felicity makes active choices and men aren’t involved, give or take a wisecracking Rory on the sidelines. Arrow has generally done decent work exploring Felicity’s hacker side—all the stuff with her dad didn’t set the world on fire, but it was solid enough—and there’s good narrative logic in exploring just how Felicity could so completely turn her back on her past, and whether she really has left all her past life behind.

... After a couple years of faltering momentum and uncertain choices, Arrow has regained its energy, and the show is just easy to watch in a way it frequently hasn’t been in recent seasons.... 

Edited February 2, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

EW gave 511 a grade of "B-"...

'Arrow' recap: 'Second Chances’
SARA NETZLEY FEBRUARY 1, 2017 AT 11:04PM EST
http://ew.com/recap/arrow-season-5-episode-11/

Quote

At the meet, Felicity warns Rory to be ready to move in if the scary denizen from the dark web gets rowdy. But surprise surprise, we’re greeted by Felicity 2.0, a bubbly young woman who gushes that she became a hacktivist because of Felicity. Ah, but she’s disappointed that Ghost Fox Goddess stopped hacking and went corporate. “Never meet your heroes,” she concludes. Poor Felicity clearly wants to shout, “I’ve routinely helped Green Arrow in the streets and in the sheets,” but she keeps it together.

The woman hands Felicity a jump drive and explains that her group Helix has a data cache from the NSA that could take down politicians, ruin companies, and spark revolutions. Also, she wants to inspire Felicity to be the hacktivist that she used to be.

When Felicity plugs the jump drive in at the Arrow Cave (which doesn’t seem safe — can’t you pack all kinds of nasty bugs on a jump drive like that?), top-secret file after top-secret file zooms across the screen while Felicity watches in amazement.

Ghost Fox Goddess, activate! I just hope she keeps the blond hair.

While Felicity’s exploring her dark roots, Oliver, Rene, and Curtis head to Hub City to track down a possible Black Canary candidate. Oliver’s rejected every suggestion the team brought him; no amount of Olympic gold medals, jujitsu, or working with at-risk kids is enough to raise any of the women to the impossibly high bar that Laurel set. (Laurel-haters, good luck keeping your eyes from rolling out of your head.)
*  *  *
Armed with a location and the information about Vinnie’s death, Green Arrow and Wild Dog creep into Tina’s home, where they discover a murder board complete with overlapping photos and red string. (Has anybody started a Tumblr of Hollywood’s murder boards yet? If not, someone should really get on that.)
*  *  *
When a gang of drug dealers creep down the hall, Wild Dog stays behind to hold them off while Oliver follows Tina out the window. Gotta say, I’m digging Tina’s toughness and mental fortitude, but I do not trust any woman who sets out to fight crime without putting her hair in a ponytail. I won’t tie my shoes without putting my hair in a ponytail, you know? Hair bands, lady! In bulk.
*  *  *
Honestly? Chills. Oliver becomes the Hood in this scene, and we’re finally seeing it in season 5.

Edited February 2, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

‘Arrow’ Recap: “Second Chances” – To Catch a (New) Canary
Kayti Burt  Feb. 1, 2017
http://collider.com/arrow-recap-second-chances/#images

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It’s long been a source of disappointment for me that Felicity so rejected her hacktivist past, and that she saw her time hacking into government websites and corporations to protect the people as a childish phase of rebellion. Frankly, hacktivism seems much more in line with the socialist tendencies of the canon Green Arrow character than most of what goes on in this show. If you’ve read any of my rambling about Arrow, then you know I like to lament the loss of that first season sociopolitical framework that had Oliver taking down corrupt bankers and recruiting Diggle with a speech about the fall of institutions like the courts and the police.

Well, it looks like Felicity might be doing a 180 on her hacktivist past. When looking for the NSA file that could exonerate Diggle of his trumped-up charges, Felicity runs into another hacker online, one who wants to meet. She claims she has the files that could set Diggle free.
*  *  *
By the end of the episode, Felicity seems excited to use the rest of the files on the clandestine flash drive to take down other corrupt individuals and organizations, though she is unwilling to tell Oliver about it.

This is the second episode in a row that Felicity doesn’t trust Oliver with information about her missions. It’s understandable, given Oliver’s track record when it comes to both a) controlling, unilateral decision-making and b) accidentally killing Felicity’s boyfriends. Still, it seems like Felicity’s more reckless behavior and her secret-keeping might result in some dangerous consequences for the hacker. On this show, secrets are rarely a good idea.
*  *  *
— Did anyone get any Alias pilot nostalgia watching that opening scene with Tina? The badass lady strapped to a chair. Missing molars. Aforementioned badass lady having to see the man she loves, dead, and blaming herself for it. Classic Sydney Bristow. All that was missing was the red hair.
*  *  *
— I love how Oliver automatically assumes Tina is trying to avenge her former partner, rather than just more generally trying to make the world a better place.
*  *  *
— “Please tell me you didn’t sleep down here.” Rory’s role on Team Arrow is often hen mother. This is what happens when your superhero costume requires visual effects. Guess there wasn’t any money left in the Magic Rags Budget line item this week.

— Ghost Fox Goddess. Best hacker name?

— “What’s IRL?” “In real life.” Dude. Rory would know that. Anyone would know that.
*  *  *
— Um, I guess that flaming helicopter that Oliver shot down into the heart of Hub City didn’t hurt anyone on the way down? (Editor’s Note: I’m sure it was fine, and the people inside were also fine. Totally fine).

— “Long story.” “Is there… something you’re not telling me?” The Olicity dynamic has undergone some intriguing role reversal in Season 5, and I am very into it.
*  *  *
— Oliver quotes Rene’s “second chances” speech back to Tina at the end of the episode. (As we all know, repeating advice he’s heard earlier in the episode is one of Oliver’s top hobbies). But I didn’t realize Oliver was listening in on their conversation. Was he on the comms or just skulking just out of sight, in the shadows? Discuss.

Edited February 2, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Review: ‘Arrow’ Takes ‘Second Chances’ With Surprising New Black Canary Twist
Kevin Fitzpatrick | February 1, 2017
http://screencrush.com/arrow-second-chances-review-dinah-drake/

Quote

It was worth wondering how seriously Arrow was willing to take its quest for a new Black Canary, as despite suggestions that the series would always need someone in that role, Juliana Harkavy has not yet signed as a series regular, nor has Katie Cassidy’s overall deal bore additional fruit than Black Siren’s return. Obviously, the reveal of “Tina Boland” as a cover for DC’s Dinah Drake sets off alarm bells for the character going forward (as did Oliver’s investment in recruiting her and the dedication to displaying her origin), lending “Second Chances” a sense of Arrow preparing for its future, both in and out of flashback.
*  *  *
*Especially in light of the odd resemblance to certain politicians with Russian backgrounds, “Second Chances” didn’t have great optics with regard to Oliver rejecting a string of incredibly qualified Black Canary candidates based on his personal whims.
*  *  *
My only caveat to that foresight might be that Arrow still lacks significant handle on its definition of moral killing. Yes, Oliver himself has wrestled with that notion this year, and it’s still notably murky whether Season 5 has landed on endorsing lethal force, but it’s impossible to ignore that Tina/Dinah killed at least two people in her quest for vengeance. Stranger still is that Oliver would hold Rene back from pursuing any sort of justice, or that Oliver himself apparently murdered whoever piloted that helicopter in the final sequence. Understandably, Arrow has long offered a wide berth for redemption and morality; it’s just especially odd that a season that emphasizes Diggle paying for his sins behind bars wouldn’t hold Oliver or Tina accountable for their own.
*  *  *
So, is making Tina into Dinah Drake (the original comic Black Canary awkwardly retconned into “Dinah Laurel Lance”) a tacit admission that Arrow wants to start over with its take on the character?

[tv echo]

"I'm the justice that you can't run from!"...

Arrow Season 5 Episode 11 Review: “Second Chances” 
Chris King+  February 1, 2017
http://www.tvovermind.com/the-cw/arrow/arrow-season-5-episode-11-review-second-chances

Quote

With the discovery of Tina Boland (aka Dinah Drake), it appears that Oliver has finally found someone worthy of the Black Canary title, and it’s not simply because Dinah’s name and abilities remind him of Laurel. It’s because he recognizes that she has the same desire to do good that Laurel had, that thirst for justice that spawns from horrific trauma. For Laurel, it was witnessing the death of her sister, Sara, while for Dinah, it was enduring torture and watching the murder of her partner and boyfriend. After these losses, both women sought to prove themselves as heroes, wiping crime from the streets so that no one else would have to endure the pain that they did, but Laurel always had a team, a support system, by her side. When Oliver sees Dinah working alone, he’s reminded of his early days as The Hood and of how his darkness and loneliness blinded him to the truth of what real justice actually is. For Oliver, it was only through Diggle and Felicity that he was able to become the hero he is today, and he believes that with Team Arrow by her side Dinah can reach her full potential as well and be the heroic Black Canary that Laurel was before her.

Near the end of “Second Chances,” Oliver calls Dinah his “second chance,” but that’s not entirely true. Sure, Dinah represents an opportunity for Oliver to keep Laurel’s legacy alive and return the Black Canary mantle to Team Arrow, but she alone doesn’t serve as a second chance for him. Oliver is essentially incapable of forgiving himself for his past sins, but where he finds real hope and solace is through his connections with other people, as these relationships shape both him and others into better, stronger people.

From Diggle to Felicity to Laurel to even someone like Wild Dog, all the members of Team Arrow, past and present, have helped Oliver evolve into the man he is today. It’s not just the actions of the Green Arrow that serve as his form of redemption but the contributions of the team as a whole. As he explains to Dinah, he’s still working on how to deal with the pain of trauma but “it helps to not be alone.” Oliver’s second chances are all the people who have let him into their lives and hearts since he returned from the island, all the people that have loved and trusted him enough to join this campaign for justice in Star City; Dinah’s just the newest one.
*  *  *
Oliver and Dinah aren’t the only ones in this week’s episode that find themselves with second chances. In an effort to help clear Diggle’s name, Felicity meets with a young hacker, who actually turns out to be a major fan of her hacktivist work from college. This hacker not only provides Felicity with the files needed to exonerate John (Hooray!) but also shares more government documents with her that she hopes Felicity will use for good. This hacker comes from an organization called “Helix,” and something tells me they’re not as noble as they pretend to be. However, I’m very excited for this Felicity-centric storyline. It’s been a while since we’ve seen her show off her hacker skills, and since she is still mourning the loss of Billy, this story serves as an incredibly interesting avenue to explore her darker side.

Edited February 2, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

ITA...

Arrow 5.11 Review – “Second Chances”
February 1, 2017 | Posted by Michael Haigis
http://411mania.com/movies/arrow-5-11-review-second-chances/

Quote

When this season of Arrow began eleven episodes and many more weeks ago, I wrote that the show was clearly emulating, if not attempting to resurrect, it’s earliest incarnation. The villains have been mortal. The storylines have been personal. The action has been blunt, and punishing. Fans of the show largely agreed, as the early consensus surrounding the fifth season framed it as either a return to form or a solid effort in that direction.

This new (old) Arrow – stripped of its magical and meta- elements – has been a sleek machine, churning out neat conflict that’s been mostly easy to devour without much thought, and a smattering of resonant character moments as added bonuses. That’s all true and good. Watching “Second Chances”, though, it’s possible to see a flaw built into this tonal shift. Because the shift was more than just tonal, or aesthetic. The show has tried to look like it once did, but it is also looking where it once did. And that backward gaze has tilted the balance – between fresh and stale – too far in one direction.
*  *  *
Tonight’s episode, “Second Chances”, stood in stark contrast to the victories the show has scored with its big-bad A plot. Once more, Oliver and company are being led around by the past; tonight’s entire episode focused on Oliver’s search for a new Black Canary.
*  *  *
Her name is Tina when we first meet her, and she’s an ex-police officer who is now obsessed with revenge against the man who killed her partner those three years ago. Tina can fight, as we are clumsily shown, and she has the same power as the original Black Canary. After his typical introspection routine, which includes rejecting dozens of potential replacements, Oliver agrees to go and see Tina in person. Say what you want about Oliver, but don’t you dare say he has an imagination. He promised Laurel he would find a suitable heir to Canary title – apparently in his mind that comes as close to finding a clone as possible. Her bizarro doppelganger didn’t work out, so what’s plan B? Tina, who Curtis notes is just a blonde dye job short of being Laurel herself.
*  *  *
Quick thought here – Oliver lectures Tina about the value of preserving innocence, trying to convince her that revenge will be a hollow act which brings her no great joy or closure. That speech comes just moments after he blows up a helicopter that must have had living human passengers aboard. Meanwhile, Wild Dog is running around shooting people with real guns. Is killing on Arrow only worth a sappy speech if the victims have names? This season featured an entire two episode sequence in which Team Arrow debated the moral implication of Oliver’s days as a killer. Yet each week, we see people die on screen. Something to consider.
*  *  *
These episodes are always titled on the nose, and tonight provided second chances for Oliver, his team, Diggle, Tina, even Felicity. The problem is, the show is better when it forgets second chances and pushes into the future. Laurel – even after the massive head fake of episode ten – is gone. What value could come from discovering a replacement that is almost-but-not-quite her. Oliver – and Arrow – would have been better served in a different direction. Find someone who is completely unlike Laurel. Someone new, and distinct. The show needs to do the same thing: leave what is in the past in the past, and forge a new path. In some ways it will be worse off, but in many ways it will be better. At the very least it will be interesting.

Edited February 2, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Lots of animated gifs...

THE ROAD TO REDEMPTION: ARROW 5X11 REVIEW (SECOND CHANCES) 
jbuffyangel   Feb. 2, 2017
http://jbuffyangel.tumblr.com/post/156712348258/the-road-to-redemption-arrow-5x11-review-second

[LeighAn]

This scene reminded me of Smallvilles 200th and the Chloe high school student worshippers. 

[tv echo]

"Second Chances" – Arrow S05E11 Review
By Gislef  Feb. 2, 107
http://www.tv.com/shows/arrow/community/post/second-chances-arrow-s05e11-review-1486017815/

Quote

"Second Chances" was… eh. Not good, not bad. We do get a meta officially added to Team Arrow now, to go with gun-wielding maniac, tech genius, and mystic type. The claim that it was fate that led them to Tina/Dinah is a little too convenient even when they lampshade it. Dinah has a sonic scream like Black Canary, she wears a black leather jacket like Black Canary, she and Laurel share a partial name. All the lampshading in the world doesn't make this easier to swallow.

It also continues the reverence for Laurel Lance which I still don't get. Yes, she and Oliver were once an item. Then they weren't. then they got back together and Laurel became Black Canary. And she fought crime with Team Arrow. I don't know if Katie Cassidy has blackmail material on one or more of the executive producers, or what. But I don't really get this infatuation that Oliver has with her memory. Apparently, neither do his teammates. Although Rory's deadpan joke about Oliver's reluctance to select a new Canary was well-played. Congratulations as always to Joe Dinicol, who is probably the most humorous performer on the show. Maybe it's just that they give him a different type of humor than the pop-culture-referencing tech nerd (Cisco, Felicity, Curtis, Ray Palmer, Nate Heywood...). Deadpan humor and Jewish references make a pleasant change from that 
*  *  *
Instead we got hit over the head with anvil about second chances. The whole second chances/redemption arc seems oddly familiar. Maybe it's that they're not at all subtle about it. Maybe it just seems like Oliver is having a stronger case of angst brought on by Prometheus' schemes. Or maybe it's just that Prometheus is a vague barely-seen presence. For whatever reason, it just seems kinda tedious.
*  *  *
In any case, I guess this is an attempt to reinvent Felicity yet again. From IT Girl to Girl Friday to Oliver's One Twue Wuv to Overwatch to Palmer Tech CEO to Boyfriend-in-Refrigerator Woman (and she got over Billy's death pretty quickly, didn't she?) to… whatever she's doing these days. Now she'll become a determined hactivist again? Or not: who knows at this point.
*  *  *
Overall, the episode didn't really have much to recommend it. it seemed more like a placeholder than anything. It wasn't bad, but I doubt it'll be on anyone's list of top 50 episodes.

Edited February 2, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

I guess having the right comics name really is all that matters...

Arrow Season 5 Episode 11 Review: Second Chances
Paul Dailly at February 1, 2017 10:14 pm.
https://www.tvfanatic.com/2017/02/arrow-season-5-episode-11-review-second-chances/

Quote

Dinah Drake has made her way from the comics to the mean streets of Star City, and I couldn't be more excited. 

On Arrow Season 5 Episode 11, the prospect of a new Black Canary was pondered, and I didn't give a damn... until Tina revealed that she was actually the Dinah Drake. 
*  *  *
Felicity's storyline this evening featured an odd turn of events and it was great. Meeting someone who was fangirling over her hacktivist ways was certainly out of left field. 

Poor Felicity was scared she was meeting someone who could potentially be linked to Prometheus. Instead, it was someone who was so inspired by Felicity in her college days that she, too, became a hacker. 

The girl knew how to get Felicity on her side. That came in the form of the file to make Diggle a free man. However, I'm cautious about what Felicity will have to do in return. 

Edited February 2, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow Review: Something Doesn’t Add Up During the Search for a New Canary
BY CRAIG WACK · FEBRUARY 2, 2017
http://oohlo.com/2017/02/02/arrow-review-something-doesnt-add-up-during-the-search-for-a-new-canary/

Quote

Following his encounter with Laurel Lance doppelganger, Black Siren, Oliver puts all vigilante-related business on hold while he has Team Arrow put on their Human Resources hats and vet Canary candidates they received from what I can only assume is ZipRecruiter for the cape and mask set. Conveniently enough, Prometheus, established as a ruthless nemesis who will stop at nothing to ruin Oliver in every way imaginable, has gone off to visit his/her grandmother in Yonkers because there’s not a peep from Prometheus in this episode, leaving Ollie free to strengthen his numbers at a leisurely pace.
*  *  *
Felicity’s return to her hacker roots was a compelling piece inside the hour because it not only moved the Diggle plot along (adding another member to the team while Prometheus was on a smoke break), but it also opened up a whole new avenue for Felicity to grow and make a difference on her own, following her clandestine meeting with the young hacktivist she inspired. This gives Felicity the opportunity to literally open Pandora’s Box.
*  *  *
The main origin story of undercover Central City cop, Dinah Drake was interesting if not familiar to people who regularly watch The Flash. Even it wasn’t without its writing potholes. Case in point, when Oliver calls Captain Singh to inquire about “Tina,” Dinah’s undercover alias, Singh recognizes the name and responds accordingly. The problem is unless Singh was Dinah’s supervisor three years ago, he wouldn’t know her alias, because secrecy is the whole point of sending in someone undercover.

[AyChihuahua]

10 hours ago, MaisyDaisy said:

Perhaps the comic dudebros can tell me who got the twitter trend tonight? 

I mean I know that going back to it's comic roots, ending Olicity and pushing Felicity towards her comic relief box totally was a hit ratings wise. With all that soooo popular, who trended again? Was it 'Arrow'? Perhaps 'Dinah' the iconic? Oh it must have been 'Oliver'- I mean the show is called Arrow, it couldn't have been anything else....right?

i mean at what point do we face he reality that Arrow went in a direction that lost a fair chunk of it's audience? 

I find that so fascinating, that ppl who like this season just absolutely refuse in any way to acknowledge that ratings are way, way, way down. Like hey, I like some cheesy stuff, for example Eurotrip is one of my favorite comedies and I love Blade: Trinity (Ryan Reynolds' constant shirtlessness helped a lot), but I don't claim that they are "the best." Blade: Trinity is pretty widely hated and I've never met anyone in real life who's even heard of Eurotrip (IT IS GODDAMN HILARIOUS AND MATT DAMON HAS A CAMEO AND YOU WILL DIE LAUGHING while being quite ashamed of yourself for laughing).

[ComicFan777]

You like Eurotrip -- so awesome!  I loved the Scotty doesn't know song.

Edited February 2, 2017 by ComicFan777

[AyChihuahua]

Dudes are just not difficult. She's a basically competent hot actress with a great bod. Even the Slander Ent guys are fine with her. I always figured the general audience plus comics-positive dudebros would be fine with her.

3 minutes ago, ComicFan777 said:

You like Eurotrip -- so awesome!  I loved the Scotty doesn't know song.

My second favorite comedy behind Ghostbusters.

I do not have highbrow tastes.

[tv echo]

I usually don't post reviews from this site because the male reviewer, Chris Haley, hates Felicity but previously admitted that he had trouble articulating why he hates her. However, I'm posting this review because even he doesn't like the new BC story (although it sounds like he hates Arrow in general and is only watching because he gets paid to review it)..

'Arrow’ Post-Show Analysis: Season 5 Episode 11: ‘Second Chances’
by CA Post-Show Team February 2, 2017 9:00 AM
http://comicsalliance.com/arrow-season-5-episode-11-second-chances/

Quote

Chris: Yeah, things that actually could use a few more words don’t get them, but we get Ollie having basically the exact same conversation with Tina three or four times. And they change the visuals of the scene up a little (the first time it’s on a roof, the second time in a garage, the third time in a garage, but he’s not wearing his mask, the fourth time in his mayoral office), but it’s more or less the same dialogue!
*  *  *
Emma: ... As for Tina and Ollie, it was basically the same dialogue, and still they said nothing of consequence. It didn’t help me to understand her reluctance to join Team Arrow. It just felt like one of those conversations where people say things but it’s all just… air. Which is pretty crappy dialogue.

Chris: Yes. Yes, it is. Like, why on Earth wouldn’t she want their help? And, why would Ollie care if she kills the main bad guy after the three of them have been killing the henchmen and helicopter pilots indiscriminately?
*  *  *
Chris: Yeah, I mean, sure. It was nice having a number of fun connections to The Flash, and the idea that all these characters really do live in the same world, even if it’s completely ridiculous that they need a new Black Canary and by absolute chance, there’s someone whose personality and life experiences fit with an interest in vigilante justice that just happens to have also gained the exact matching superpower.
*  *  *
Emma: ... Speaking of names, we find out at the end of the episode that Tina Boland, the new Black Canary, is not really Tina Boland. Her name is Dinah Drake.

Chris: Another ludicrously unlikely coincidence, but hey, at least they now have a Black Canary with the right name… kind of.

Emma: Want to place bets on how long it’ll take before she and Ollie make out?

Chris: Remember how Ollie was romantically involved with that reporter before the break, and now we haven’t had a single mention of her?

Emma: It’s only been two episodes, she’ll come back. She has dirt on Ollie, remember? Dinah will be the slow burn kind of romance that Ollie will struggle with because she reminds him so much of Laurel. The reporter was sexy fun, but not even real sexy fun.

Chris: The real question for me is how long until she gets blonde hair? Also, is it not weird to Ollie that this new lady coincidentally has the same full name as Laurel’s mom?

Emma: Chris, you’re assuming that Ollie remembered Laurel’s mom’s name. He was kind of a jerk back when he knew her. World’s worst boyfriend.

Edited February 2, 2017 by tv echo

[Chaser]

It's not just the same name as Laurel's mom, it's Laurel's first name.

[Guest]

Quote

Dinah will be the slow burn kind of romance that Ollie will struggle with because she reminds him so much of Laurel. 

LOL. It's possible I might be sick.

[tv echo]

511 comments by Laura Hurley (now Deputy TV Editor of CinemaBlend, as of yesterday)...

 

[Belinea]

Can I just say that I love her tweets! 

[Delphi]

1 hour ago, AyChihuahua said:

Dudes are just not difficult. She's a basically competent hot actress with a great bod. Even the Slander Ent guys are fine with her. I always figured the general audience plus comics-positive dudebros would be fine with her.

My second favorite comedy behind Ghostbusters.

I do not have highbrow tastes.

Also one of my favourites. 

 

"You made out with your sister!!"

Michelle was great in it. 

[statsgirl]

3 hours ago, tv echo said:

I guess having the right comics name really is all that matters...

And a hot body and being able to fight.  KC had the first two but not the ability to sell a fight. Now everyone is thrilled that the true Black Canary is on the show.  It always surprises me how superficially most people watch TV.

[Chaser]

I don't feel bad for KC, but I have a little sympathy for her fans that actually believed the 'backlash' proved KC/Laurel's popularity.  

[Starfish35]

25 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I don't feel bad for KC, but I have a little sympathy for her fans that actually believed the 'backlash' proved KC/Laurel's popularity.  

I don't.  Call me petty (and I know it is) but after years of hearing from the Laurel fans how Sara was not worthy to carry the Black Canary name, all I can think is "what goes around comes around."

[dtissagirl]

I'm finding it extra hilarity forever that America's Next Black Canary is a stone cold killer. Remember when Sara could never ~carry the mantle~ because she was an assassin? Trolololololol.