The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[tv echo]

‘Arrow’ Review: “So It Begins”
Nora Dominick   Nov. 11, 2016
http://emertainmentmonthly.com/index.php/arrow-review-so-it-begins/

Quote

Arrow’s fifth season has been a mixed bag. After a solid premiere back in October, episodes have slowly started to become more about plot and less about characters. Last week’s episode fell flat and this week doesn’t feel much better. Arrow’s latest episode “So It Begins” introduces a threatening big bad, but has some characters taking major steps backwards.

Somewhere along the way, Arrow forgot we tune in for characters. Of course we’ve enjoyed the grandiose plot lines of past seasons, but our characters always came first. Take the season two finale. Even in the midst of fighting Deathstroke, Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards) had the time to give an empowering speech to Oliver (Stephen Amell). Even in season three when Oliver was “killed” by Ra’s al Ghul, he saw flashes of those he loves: his parents, Thea (Willa Holland) and Felicity. Characters always, always came first. Now well into Arrow’s fifth season, the plot lines are coming before characters.
*  *  *
The new recruits have breathed new life into Arrow. After losing Roy (Colton Haynes) and Laurel (Katie Cassidy), new blood needed to join the team. These new recruits have potential. Rene (Rick Gonzalez) has the ability to be a great leader. Rory (Joe Dinicol) and Curtis (Echo Kellum) have the brains to take this team far. Meanwhile, Evelyn (Madison McLaughlin) has enough heart for the entire team. So, why aren’t these characters soaring? For starters, they’re being treated like a group. Throughout these six episodes we’ve only gotten snippets of their lives. It hasn’t allowed us to form a coherent pictures of who they are.
*  *  *
Another character development issue for us involves Felicity Smoak. This week, we finally see her and Detective Malone (Tyler Ritter) interacting. Malone is on the SCPD side of investigating Prometheus’ killing spree. After dodging his questions and stealing evidence from him, Felicity decides to tell him about her day job. Although a minor moment within the episode, Felicity tells Malone that she works FOR the Green Arrow. Last time we checked, Felicity works WITH the Green Arrow.

Again, a minor detail within the larger Arrow episode, but it’s a massive step backwards for Felicity’s character development. After Laurel’s death last season, Felicity became the leading female on Arrow. There’s no denying that, so why is Arrow trying to undermine this? Rickards is the strongest actress on Arrow. She’s built this character from the ground up and it’s time she receives the leading female status she so clearly deserves.
*  *  *
Overall, Arrow has to overcome its characterization problems. By introducing too many characters, staple character are getting lost in the background. Some character’s are moving forward while others take steps back. Let’s hope episode seven will be less plot and more character driven.

Edited November 12, 2016 by tv echo

[SmallScreenDiva]

Arrow's Tyler Ritter Pleads His Case to Olicity Fans

... maybe if he didn't joke about getting death threats and casting fans in such a negative light ... eh, still no.

Also, as someone on this board wisely suggested, if you're the interloper in a popular ship, just grin and bear it. Basically, STFU.

Edited November 12, 2016 by SmallScreenDiva

[insomniadreams88]

7 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Arrow's Tyler Ritter Pleads His Case to Olicity Fans

... maybe if he didn't joke about getting death threats and casting fans in such a negative light ... eh, still no.

Also, as someone on this board wisely suggested, if you're the interloper in a popular ship, just grin and bear it. Basically, STFU.

So basically nothing new. Still saying Oliver and Felicity too busy for a relationship (but only with each other). 

Also, Malone is a "legitimate asset" for GA? Have we seen that? If by asset, you mean he had information about Prometheus we still have no idea how he got and he left evidence out for Felicity to steal, sure. Great asset. 

Also, why are there interviews coming out with Ritter and not EBR, WH or PB? 

[lemotomato]

10 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Also, why are there interviews coming out with Ritter and not EBR, WH or PB? 

Chris Hayner's interview with Ritter is actually just questions asked from the press line at the 100th episode party. Leanne Aguilera from ET posted her interview with EBR at the event, but I'm not sure why the other reporters that were there are sitting on the footage/interviews. 

Edited November 12, 2016 by lemotomato

[Velocity23]

Isnt there another round of interviews expected for the crossover screening?

[Morrigan2575]

13 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Isnt there another round of interviews expected for the crossover screening?

Are they doing one? I haven't heard anything about it. I thought for sure this year they'd have a big screening event, but, they had to cancel last year because the SFX wasn't ready in time and, this is probably much worse

Edited November 12, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Velocity23]

My guess is they will try since its about to promote Supergirl.

[statsgirl]

43 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Arrow's Tyler Ritter Pleads His Case to Olicity Fans

I kind of felt sorry for the guy.  He's just trying to explain why Mayo would be good for Felicity when everyone just wants him gone so Felicity and Oliver can get back together.

[SmallScreenDiva]

4 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I kind of felt sorry for the guy.  He's just trying to explain why Mayo would be good for Felicity when everyone just wants him gone so Felicity and Oliver can get back together.

And he could have done that without the "death threat" joke. 

[lemotomato]

8 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

My guess is they will try since its about to promote Supergirl.

SA and the usual group of Arrow-verse actors (DR, PB, EK, WH) are scheduled to go to HVFF in Atlanta next weekend, and then the weekend after that is Thanksgiving. If there's a screening of the crossovers, I don't think it'll be an event like the one held for the first one.

[thenj]

6 hours ago, tv echo said:

Felicity tells Malone that she works FOR the Green Arrow. Last time we checked, Felicity works WITH the Green Arrow.

Again, a minor detail within the larger Arrow episode, but it’s a massive step backwards for Felicity’s character development. 

I thought it was just me being frustrated with the show and nitpicking everything but I really hated that line.

[apinknightmare]

There's nothing at all in-show that suggests that Felicity works "for" the Green Arrow though? So it's either a line that wasn't well thought out without any underlying motivation (surprise, surprise!) or was misspoken by EBR. 

[BkWurm1]

2 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I kind of felt sorry for the guy.  He's just trying to explain why Mayo would be good for Felicity when everyone just wants him gone so Felicity and Oliver can get back together.

It's not the easiest position to be in but it's also not that big of a mystery that the interloper is never going to be accepted just because you plead his case.  Unless these actors are clueless, the best thing they could do IMO is to relate to how much they too hate when someone gets between their ships.  Let the fans know they get it and know it's not personal.  Let the fans see him as an actor not just the character's advocate, then he can talk things from the character's perspective and what the show wants to accomplish, but never disparage (even in implication) the big ship of the show or he can prepare to make more "friends" on the internet. And if he can't do that, shut up and grin.  

Nothing he says is going to endear his character, he's better off selling himself as an individual and hoping people then give the character a chance because pleading his case comes off as validating a story line I can not endorse.

2 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

There's nothing at all in-show that suggests that Felicity works "for" the Green Arrow though? So it's either a line that wasn't well thought out without any underlying motivation (surprise, surprise!) or was misspoken by EBR. 

I can also see her trying to down play her role a little when she's first broaching the subject.  As long as I see that she maintains her complete agency in her work WITH the team, I'm fine if she phrases it differently to people not really involved with the team.  

Edited November 13, 2016 by BkWurm1

[kes0704]

2 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I kind of felt sorry for the guy.  He's just trying to explain why Mayo would be good for Felicity when everyone just wants him gone so Felicity and Oliver can get back together.

Therein lies the problem with Mayo Cop, he's a one dimensional character.  He appeared out of nowhere, and six episodes in he seems to have no narrative purpose, other than to stall Olicity or break it down completely.

He's trying to explain off screen why Mayo is good for Felicity because the audience isn't seeing it onscreen. 

[LeighAn]

Oh bull he's received "death threats" if he means people wanting his completely fictional character killed off then sorry not the same thing. Both he and Carly need to just stop with the woe is me victim act 

 

Edit: Also as for the whole "Oliver is way to cool and important and busy for silly relationships" and Star City has to much drama for Oliver and Felicitys drama while being super frat boy response also isn't going to hold up much when Oliver does indeed have a relationship with Susan and or Tina

Edited November 13, 2016 by LeighAn

[Starfish35]

Arrow: Which New Recruits Are Hitting the Bull's-Eye? Which Are Off-Target?

TVLine reviews the new recruits and asks readers to vote on who to keep. 

At this moment:

Quote

Which Arrow recruits are keepers? (CHOOSE ALL THAT APPLY)

Rory Regan aka Ragman  38.98%   

Evelyn Sharp aka Artemis  24.93%   

Curtis Holt aka Mr. Terrific  21.96%   

Rene Ramirez aka Wild Dog  14.13%

Edited November 13, 2016 by Starfish35

[statsgirl]

I got the impression that he was trying to say that Oliver is too busy being mayor and Green Arrow and rich to give Felicity the attention she deserves and Malone has more time to give her those important massages when she needs them. At least he confirmed that he only has the keys to her place, not is living there with her.

Ritter did say that as a fan of the show he finds Oliver and Felicity very hot together.  He's well aware he's just a place saver.

[CabotCove]

Quote

 

.. maybe if he didn't joke about getting death threats and casting fans in such a negative light ... eh, still no.

Also, as someone on this board wisely suggested, if you're the interloper in a popular ship, just grin and bear it. Basically, STFU.

Yeah he should be just Ok with getting abused online, If it was EBR getting this sort abuse would you be saying that. Or if it was that other side of fandom. So rich, how people are currently demanding respect from writers on SM, but its so very OK to treat the writers, actors and other show people in a disrespectful way. Only one side has to act human is that it. 

Edited November 13, 2016 by HeroLeague

[Thundercatmary]

I have not seen any abuse at all against the actor, the character sure but that's fair. 

[LeighAn]

Exactly the point is he HASN'T received any abuse online. And for the record the actor him self clarified on his Twitter account that the "death threats" were fictional death threats against his fictional character that he takes as a joke. As in people saying they hope Malone dies which sorry not sorry is not actual abuse against the actor. 

 

And if you don't believe that actually check he's mentions and see if anyone has actually tweeted a death threat at him Tyler Ritter the actor. I doubt take long to prove or disprove as I doubt many Olicity of Arrow fans for that matter have actually tweeted him at all. 

[CabotCove]

nevermind

Edited November 14, 2016 by HeroLeague

[tv echo]

Two more EK interviews...

[tv echo]

Well, it was bound to happen...

I just read an article about how "killing Olicity" has "saved" Season 5 of Arrow. The reviewer/site has been anti-Olicity in the past, so no surprise there. 

[Bort]

Stop arguing over fandoms, nothing good ever comes of it. It's off-topic in this, the media thread, anyway.

[BkWurm1]

7 hours ago, tv echo said:

Well, it was bound to happen...

I just read an article about how "killing Olicity" has "saved" Season 5 of Arrow. The reviewer/site has been anti-Olicity in the past, so no surprise there. 

Some of these reviewers aren't the most thorough and seem to do their reviews based on a shallow and overly simplified view point on what is happening on the show.  

The reviews didn't like the needless angst of season 4 Olicity and now in season 5, Oliver and Felicity are just getting along and being partners and they like the vibe, but instead of understanding that as a couple, Olicity doesn't HAVE to be written full of angst, they just jump to the conclusion that it is their relationship status that makes the difference versus how that relationship is going.  

It's like if the reviewers credited better scripted fights and stunts to the return of sleeves on the GA suit.  Last year there were no sleeves and the fights sucked but luckily they killed the sleeveless suit in season 5 and it saved the fight scenes!

Edited November 13, 2016 by BkWurm1
clarity

[tv echo]

Great interview with David Nykl...

Arrow: There’s More to Anatoly Knyazev Than Meets the Eye, Says Nykl
Meagan Damore  November 11, 2016
http://www.cbr.com/arrow-theres-more-to-anatoly-knyazev-than-meets-the-eye-says-nykl/?utm_source=CBR-TW&utm_medium=Social-Distribution&utm_campaign=CBR-TW&view=list

-- When Nykl auditioned for Arrow S2, it was for the part of a "prisoner." He thought that it would be 1 or 2 episodes and it ended up being 9 episodes. He got a name and became a friend of Oliver on the submarine. This year he was surprised to get the call that he'd be recurring this season.

-- He doesn't know if Anatoly has an ulterior motive for helping Oliver, but thinks that since he's in the Russian mafia, there's probably something going on that we don't know about yet.

-- He is not in the 100th episode.

-- He does not know if Anatoly will take on his comic book persona of KGBeast.

-- He is aware that his character was in Batman v. Superman.

[BkWurm1]

We were talking about fortuitous casting and he is a very good example.  The scenes he does with Oliver currently in the flashbacks would not be nearly as charming without him (or charming at all, lol)

Edited November 15, 2016 by BkWurm1

[statsgirl]

I agree.

But you can't count on a happy accident happening.  That's why they're called 'accidents'.  #NoMoreNewVigilantes

[tv echo]

Arrow “So It Begins” Review (Season 5, Episode 6)
Jessica Breaux  November 14, 2016
http://www.tvequals.com/2016/11/14/arrow-so-it-begins-review-season-5-episode-6/

Quote

In Greek mythology, Prometheus was a Titan who sided with Zeus during the mythological battle between the Titans and the gods of Olympus. After helping Zeus overthrow the Titans, Prometheus became known as the protector of mankind. When Zeus became angry with humanity and took away fire, Prometheus stole it to give back to mortals. As a result, Zeus had Prometheus chained to a rock and cursed him to die every day for all eternity by having an eagle come and eat his liver. Because Prometheus was immortal, his liver grew back during the night and he was cursed to live that existence until the demigod Hercules came along and saved him. Given the big reveal of this week’s Arrow, I’d say Prometheus is a pretty good choice of alter ego. All the way down to the daily liver damage.

Apparently Deputy Mayor Quentin Lance is Prometheus. Gotta say, I didn’t exactly see that one coming. But now that it’s out there, it makes sense. Ever since Oliver came back to Starling City, Lance’s life has been turned upside down. The man who he’d blamed for his daughter’s death came back from the dead. The daughter he thought was dead came back from the dead and, surprise, she’s actually become a member of the League of Assassins. He’s lost his job. Twice. Sara, the daughter he thought was dead the first time, but she wasn’t really, came back to him only to get murdered for real by the brainwashed daughter of the crazy man who blew up half of Starling City. Then Laurel, the daughter who was supposed to be safe, decided to take up where Sara left off and became a vigilante. Then Laurel decided to bring Sara back from the dead, but not all of Sara came back from the dead, and Lance had to say goodbye to Sara for the third time. Then Laurel got killed by another crazy man who tried to blow up Starling City. Have I missed anything? To say that Quentin Lance has been through the ringer over the last five years is an understatement. I said in my review of last week’s episode that Prometheus didn’t seem surprised when Church revealed The Green Arrow’s true identity, and now we know why.
*  *  *
I really enjoyed this episode. The show did a good job of misdirection with Lance’s perpetual tardiness and unexplained absences. I also liked the way the action sequences were shot and Prometheus’s fighting style. It’s not nearly as polished as Oliver’s, but it’s clear he’s had some training. Which is why Evelyn was able to engage him without getting too badly injured. I appreciate that the show paid attention to that detail. It also seems to indicate that when Oliver and Prometheus’s final confrontation happens, it may not necessarily come down to fisticuffs. Like I said earlier, if the show takes their time with Prometheus, it has the potential to be a very good storyline for both Oliver and Lance. Sadly, it looks like the show is going to get Oliver involved with Susan and I’m not particularly looking forward to that. Felicity’s boyfriend seems like a decent guy though. I’m glad she told him the truth because a relationship built on lies is doomed to failure. I’m still very much enjoying the Russia flashbacks. Especially Anatoly. I liked him back on the island, but he’s even more entertaining in Russia....

Edited November 15, 2016 by tv echo

[BkWurm1]

7 hours ago, tv echo said:

Arrow “So It Begins” Review (Season 5, Episode 6)
Jessica Breaux  November 14, 2016
http://www.tvequals.com/2016/11/14/arrow-so-it-begins-review-season-5-episode-6/

Wow, she really is buying into Prometheus being Quentin.  She missed the part where he wakes up from his drunken stupor totally confused how he got cut.  How does that work into her mythology?  

[tv echo]

Another RG interview today...

 

[tv echo]

EW review of 507 - grades it a "B"...

Arrow recap: 'Vigilante'
A murderous new vigilante makes Oliver wonder if his methods are getting the job done
BY SARA NETZLEY  Posted November 16 2016 — 11:14 PM EST
http://www.ew.com/recap/arrow-season-5-episode-7

Quote

Which is worse, going too far to protect the city, or not going far enough? Oliver and his team grapple with this question when a new vigilante appears on the scene. But first …
*  *  *
This prompts Evelyn to ask, “Who gets to decide who’s a psycho and who’s a vigilante?” Indeed, Evelyn. Indeed. Who watches the watchmen? Why does the caged bird sing? Does this look infected to you? (Sorry, I got on a question roll.)
*  *  *
Speaking of the justice system, DA Chase is interrogating the female Bag of Bones member, who tells him to go to hell. He gets all intense and says, “I’ve been to hell, and that makes me somebody that you do not want to screw with.” I mean, Chase is Vigilante, right?
*  *  *
Okay, a quick break here for an update on Star City’s media: Journalist Susan seems to have undergone a full personality transplant in a matter of weeks, from a stab-Thea-in-the-back, what-even-are-ethics journalist to an earnest wannabe friend for Mayor Queen — or Oliver, as he invites her to call him.

Oliver tells his team that he’s meeting Susan for a drink, and we don’t cut to Felicity for her reaction, so I guess that’s that. Whatever, show. While there, he bounces a hypothetical off of Susan: What if a more extreme mayor out there made him question the effectiveness of his slower, more optimistic approach?

She reminds him that he’s all the city has, so he needs to keep doing his job the right way, even if it takes longer to get done. The city will know. My God, do I hope this is one long con to get Oliver to expose his tender belly so she can write the meanest expose ever. Otherwise, her character inconsistency makes zero sense.
*  *  *
Oliver then leaves to have another drink with Susan, who we’re apparently supposed to root for now? Sorry, but with that disastrous introduction a few weeks ago, it’s going to take a lot more than some pool playing and hand holding to warm me up to her.
*  *  *
But seriously, this is juicy! If Evelyn is a traitor, the show’s set it up well. She’s been frustrated with Oliver and his caginess this season, to say nothing of the terrible start to their relationship last season. But do we think she really is working with Prometheus? Could she be a double agent, with or without Oliver’s knowledge? Let me know what you think in the comments!

Edited November 17, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Another positive review from A.V. Club (and reviewer apologizes for his dumb Felicity comment from a few weeks back!)...

Arrow’s ensemble is driving its creative comeback, so let’s break them all down
By Alasdair Wilkins  Nov 17, 2016  12:40 AM
http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/arrows-ensemble-driving-its-creative-comeback-so-l-246059

Quote

Arrow continues to excel this season with a renewed focus on its entire, expanded ensemble. As such, let’s do something a little different this week and look at the show in terms of its various characters, as opposed to the ongoing stories. Also, this is as good a way as any to get a mea culpa in, so stay tuned for that. So, in no particular order, let’s run through where the characters stand as we head into the Thanksgiving break.
*  *  *
It’s remarkable just how big a liability Curtis is. At this point, his inexperience and general uselessness in the field far surpass Laurel’s limitations—and I’m not talking about reasonably adept late-period Laurel, I’m talking early “I did a couple boxing sessions with Ted Grant and am feeling good to go” Laurel. The odd thing is that there’s an obvious fix here that makes sense both in terms of the comics lore and the character the show has already established for Curtis. We know he’s a tech geek without peer, so why doesn’t he bring in some gadgets to supplement his non-existent crime-fighting instincts? ...
*  *  *
Does it make sense to not just go ahead and reveal Adrian Chase is Vigilante? The show did go to the trouble of getting someone who isn’t Josh Segarra to provide Vigilante’s voice, so it’s possible a swerve is coming, but I’m struggling to think of who the show could reveal him to be who isn’t Adrian Chase and would have any impact. Okay, fine: Felicity’s boyfriend might fit the bill. But then the show also has a Prometheus reveal to get to at some point, and surely Arrow can’t pull a pair of shock reveals in the same run of episodes....
*  *  *
Right, so let’s get into this: I’ve screwed up how I’ve been writing about Felicity. A couple weeks back, I wrote a stray observation about how she “is back in the role where she can function best and gain the most fan support (or the least fan ire, depending),” which was meant to be complimentary but was just kind of a dumb thing to say, because it suggests the show ought to marginalize one of its main female characters just to appease a section of fandom. After listening to some very fair criticism, let me say this: I’ve been way overstating how reflective my own read of the tenor of the comments section is of the consensus of all Arrow fans. So let’s leave “the fans” out of this as a shield for my own takes. Yes, I think the decision to pair Oliver and Felicity last season was a natural payoff to the unintended discovery of Stephen Amell and Emily Bett Rickards’ chemistry, but the whole thing ended up feeling mushy and formless in a way a lot of season four did.

Resetting Felicity to her more familiar position as Overwatch and frankly not much else—give or take a new boyfriend, I guess—isn’t good because that’s where she belongs but rather because it’s reflective of the show’s general need for a fresh start. I like that Arrow is returning to its core strengths and building out from there, but that doesn’t mean Felicity ought to remain where she is. There’s a reason Felicity was the show’s breakout character for the first few seasons, and I don’t mind her reduced role thus far in that it’s giving the newer characters a chance to establish themselves. But she has the least to do of any of the longstanding core characters—including Thea and Lance, who aren’t even on the team anymore!—and to just keep her where she is now would be a waste. I’ll have more to say as the season progresses, but for now let me just reiterate the mea culpa and leave it there.

Edited November 17, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Also from the above A.V. Club review:

Quote

... Diggle has a legitimate claim to be Arrow’s most tortured character, and David Ramsey is throwing himself admirably into this new character direction, but Diggle’s motivations are tied up in being forced to kill his brother who he thought was dead but actually was a brainwashed H.I.V.E. agent who wasn’t brainwashed at all. That fine operatic superhero storytelling, but it’s hard for the average viewer to wrap their mind around what that would mean emotionally....

So the bolded language above is considered "fine operatic superhero storytelling." But an equally ludicrous romantic storyline would be considered negatively as soap opera melodrama.

Edited November 17, 2016 by tv echo

[dtissagirl]

11 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Also from the above A.V. Club review:

So the bolded language above is considered "fine operatic superhero storytelling." But an equally ludicrous romantic storyline would be considered negatively as soap opera melodrama.

Dudes watch tv weird.

[tv echo]

'Arrow’ Recap: “Vigilante” – A Matter of Perspective
BY KAYTI BURT      November 16, 2016
http://collider.com/arrow-recap-vigilante-a-matter-of-perspective/

Arrow isn’t known for finely articulated discourse on justice and corruption; it has tended to take the more “Look! What’s that over there?” route when it comes to messages about institutional vs. individual crime. That’s why the recruits have been such a welcome addition to the show for me. While I agree that it’s hard to balance the many, many characters who are currently hanging out in the lair, Team Millennial tends to push Oliver in ways that the OTA no longer can. (Though, they have other strengths as allies and confidantes.) When it comes down to it, Diggle and Felicity love Oliver. They know how far he’s come. Oliver isn’t there yet with the new kids, which means they’re criticism is often less thinly-veiled and their disapproval is more easily won.
*  *  *
The thing is — and this is where Arrow does a good job articulating its point — Oliver has tried Vigilante’s method before. As the recruits refuse to let Oliver forget, he used to be a serial killer. And, after four years of trying to save the city as just a vigilante, Oliver is taking a new tactic by working within the institutions of the city, as well as on the streets. It’s the kind of message Arrow has been missing since Season 1 when Oliver first recruited Diggle by outlining how the city’s institutions have failed the people, have made some of them into desperate criminals. Eric Dunn is the perfect example. As he tells it, he went to jail an innocent man and came out something else. The city’s justice and criminal systems failed him and he became a criminal. Dunn is a reminder why Team Arrow will never be enough on its own and “Vigilante” does a better job hammering home that point than any other episode so far this season.

Ultimately, Oliver chooses to keep to the path he’s on. He lets himself belief that there is a difference between this version of himself and Vigilante. He lets himself believe that he is and can and will do better. That he is working towards something more than he has in the past four years. That justice and good might be a matter of perspective, but there is also such a thing as convenient excuses, as objective morality, and that maybe Konstantin Kovar isn’t the best person to be taking ethics advice from.
*  *  *
The flashbacks were relatively blah this week as they, again, relied a little too much on Oliver’s promise to Taiana, a forgettable character no one ever really cared about. (Sorry, but I don’t believe Oliver cared about her, either.) We met Taiana and Vlad’s mother, and she and Kovar seem to get along really well. Apparently, she’s an idiot because it seems pretty obvious that he is a shady guy. But, hey, maybe she’s playing it cool until she finds out where her kids are. One thousand points to Slytherin if she uses her position as (what I am going to assume is) Kovar’s horticulturist to poison the man. Then Oliver can just go back to Lian Yu and focusing on pushing hair follicles out of his body until that fishing boat shows up.
*  *  *
— Rory’s quoting Moby Dick to Oliver. Um, how did this guy end up on this team/show? He’s obviously too good for all of us.
*  *  *
— So many trick arrows in this episode! My personal favorite was the bulletproof net arrow, though I’m guessing Ragman feels kind of sad about that one.

[bethy]

33 minutes ago, tv echo said:

The flashbacks were relatively blah this week as they, again, relied a little too much on Oliver’s promise to Taiana, a forgettable character no one ever really cared about. (Sorry, but I don’t believe Oliver cared about her, either.)

I literally thought, "Who?" when her name came up. Maybe if they'd used "Poppy"...

Edited November 17, 2016 by bethy

[looptab]

Plus, the show itself has forgotten why Oliver wanted to find Kovar in the first place. Technically it was to honor a promise he made her, now it's because he wants to avenge her? What?

Edited November 17, 2016 by looptab

[ohjoy]

Ah Arrow, with it's complete inability to remember plot motivations from season to season (or from episode to episode). Never change. (Actually, do change. Change a lot, please.)

[tv echo]

Rick Gonzalez was on Everything Geek Podcast (with Ruari Williamson) today - you can listen to the recorded podcast here (19:28)...
http://mixlr.com/channel-1138/showreel/

-- RG is a native of NYC. He knew he wanted to be an actor since he was a little boy. He studied at LaGuardia High School of Performing Arts in NYC. He later moved to CA and has been acting for 16 years.

-- RG had no knowledge of Wild Dog when he auditioned for Arrow and read for a character who had a different name. That character had a military background. He did not know the character was a DC Comics hero. After he got the job, he was put in touch with Arrow's costume designer, Maya, and told he had to get fitted for a costume. He was surprised. She told him that he was playing a DC superhero and that's how he found out about Wild Dog.

-- RG read comics as a kid and said that kids want to play heroes who save the day.  The 10-year-old in him is always excited to save the day.

-- RG talked to James Bamford about the physicality of the part. Bamford felt that, because of Wild Dog's military training, he should be in some kind of shape. He also had to match his stunt double and the amazing stunt team, and had to overlap with what they're doing. He added that SA is one of the most in-shape actors that he's ever met and set the bar high, so it was important for him to match that bar that SA set. His physicality is needed to deliver on the believability of his character.

-- RG said that the biggest challenge for him was learning new martial arts forms and incorporating them naturally and as real looking as possible within a short amount of time.

-- RG said that he feels like he, JD, EK and MMcL have joined together to create a new energy on the show. He said that it's been a lot of fun to be around those guys.

-- RG said that to be included in Arrow's 100th episode was amazing and agreed with MG that the episode is a love letter to the fans.

-- RG said that he and the other newbies felt welcomed to the show. He also said that SA is a great person and super funny and welcoming and a really amazing actor who puts in a lot of hard work.

-- RG voted for Arrow in the People's Choice Awards nominations and agreed that winning that award would cap off 100 episodes perfectly.

-- RG also did a crime drama produced by Queen Latifah called Deuces, to be released sometime next year.

Edited November 17, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow 5.7 Review – “Vigilante”
November 17, 2016 | Posted by Michael Haigis
http://411mania.com/movies/arrow-5-7-review-vigilante/

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Over drinks in tonight’s episode of Arrow, Oliver confesses to Susan that he sometimes feels as though he’s moving…. “One step forward, two steps back?” Susan interjects, finishing his sentence. I admit that over the past few weeks, I’ve felt similarly about the show itself. This season’s had trouble building momentum, establishing stakes, and commanding its tone.

There have been confounding character developments, and moments that felt immediately anticlimactic....

Tonight I saw a different side of Arrow, instead noticing what it does very well. Now, I don’t think the episodes that I disliked in weeks past were as good as this one; I think they were qualitatively worse. But tonight’s episode (“Vigilante”, a name that suggests the real Arrow Team is running out of titles) highlighted for me some feats that I suspect Arrow achieves weekly, that I may have overlooked in weeks past.

Part of this softening I owe to twitter. Last week, I – for the first time – scrolled the #Arrow hashtag the day after an episode. What I found was a breathing illustration of what a macro-targeted audience looks like. Now, Arrow’s ratings do not reflect that it is consumed by a gigantic audience. But it’s platform (primetime, basic cable) serves the same breadth and variety of masters as the most popular, mass-consumed shows on television; only on a smaller scale.

... Monitor the Arrow conversation on twitter. You’ll find viewers that are chiefly concerned with #Olicity; viewers that approach Arrow primarily as a comic book adaptation, and are monitoring its approach to comic canon; viewers that are only there for the grit, the action; viewers that are only there for the mysteries (WHO IS PROMETHEUS); and at least one viewer tonight that was overjoyed when a shirtless Diggle appeared.

Long way to make a short point – many of the people who tune into Arrow each week are doing so for wildly disparate reasons. And while I always understood that to be fact, tonight’s episode was a shining example of how the show is able to juggle those vast and different needs, drive the plot, and construct itself thematically. It doesn’t always pull of the balancing act, but tonight it did.
*  *  *
Oliver is clear in his conviction that Team Arrow has only one choice; stop Vigilante. After all, killing is bad – even for heroes – which the team must understand, right, since last week they were disgusted to find out that Oliver had also once killed with abandon. In a stunning, but unsurprising turn of events, the team takes the opposite position; maybe they shouldn’t interfere with Vigilante. After all, they are all fighting the same criminal element.

Look, I never want to beat up on, or be unfair to, this show. But these are the exact moments that are exasperating week after week. It’s as if Arrow’s writers need to watch last week’s episodes before crafting this weeks, a refresher course if you will. I know that’s not generally how shows like this one are produced, but how else could you explain such an insane contradiction? Just last week Oliver’s killing was the end of the world. This week? Well, let’s all take a deep breath before we condemn the masked vigilante running around killing people.

I don’t point these things out just for the sake of being critical; I say the same thing each time – inconsistencies like this have real narrative consequences. Arrow loves to have philosophical conversations each week – about violence, teamwork, trust, etc. – but when the characters are all over the map on a weekly basis, usually positioned only to create cheap drama rather than because of any consistent traits or perspective, it makes it very hard to care about those philosophical conversations.
*  *  *
One note about the flashbacks – the frustrating thing about them, as a storytelling device, is that they never seem to inform Oliver’s present. It’s as if he is living a different version of the same story every few years, but not learning from that story. There’s a chance I could be proven wrong; but right now it seems like The Oliver who is being betrayed by Artemis (and whoever is Prometheus) is the exact same guy that wouldn’t have been able to predict a betrayal by Bratva. There doesn’t seem to be a lot of learning there.
*  *  *
Which, finally, brings me to my original point. Tonight, Arrow was cohesive. Everything it does – the action, the soapy drama, the plot mystery – it did very well. Throughout the season before tonight, that scale has been sliding. The show could hit one mark, but miss others. Tonight, it earned high marks across the board.

Edited November 18, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow Review: Ollie Is Surrounded by Betrayal
BY CRAIG WACK · NOVEMBER 17, 2016
http://oohlo.com/2016/11/17/arrow-review-ollie-is-surrounded-by-betrayal/

Quote

After weeks of secrets, mistrust and mistakes in the field, Team Arrow 2.0 came together and performed like a team … for one episode anyway.
*  *  *
This was another episode of Arrow that’s shown remarkable balance, particularly given the way the cast has grown. Everyone was given a significant bit to do. The new team members paired off, and contributed to the investigation of Vigilante in ways that didn’t exclusively involve taking punches. Wild Dog and Diggle’s pairing strengthened after Wild Dog arranged for Lilah and little J.J. to slip their surveillance and soothe Diggle’s recent rage by setting up a birthday party. Quentin admitted his blackouts to Thea, and she got him help and moved the plot forward by taking all the information to Oliver. Even Felicity got out into the field and cracked some jokes.

[tv echo]

Arrow Review: Vigilante (Season 5 Episode 7)
November 17, 2016  Lissete Lanuza Sáenz
http://telltaletv.com/2016/11/arrow-review-vigilante-season-5-episode-7/

Quote

Until an episode like this, that is. Because yes, Arrow Season 5 Episode 7, titled “Vigilante,” has just about killed any hope I might have harbored that this show could ever go back to being the one I loved.
*  *  *
We watch TV for many reasons: We do it to see ourselves in the characters that populate our screen; we do it to escape a reality that gets infinitely more depressing by the second. Sometimes, we even do it to pretend there is a chance at a better world.
*  *  *
Mine is pure escapism. I like superheroes because they represent what’s best in us, even when they fail. They, after all, get up and keep trying.

Oliver Queen was that hero – flawed, conflicted, but ultimately, thanks in great part to the people who populated his world, relatable. It wasn’t easy to like him, but like him we did. We invested in his journey.

Invested. Past tense.

You know what I feel like? I feel like I was watching a movie and then, in the middle of it the lights come on and another one starts playing. I complain, because, that’s not what I signed up for, but I’m told that I – and the rest of the people in the theater – am imagining things.
*  *  *
Except it doesn’t feel like the same. The faces are vaguely familiar, but the people are different, their motivations have changed.
*  *  *
If this episode proves anything is that, in Arrow-land, if you’re a woman, you can only be a love interest, comedic relief, family member, annoying or just plain evil. Nothing else is acceptable.

Or worse, nothing else is allowed.

Felicity is the exception, and maybe, that is the problem. Maybe she was taking too much focus away from the masks, the anointed ones. Maybe they can’t stand that.

Maybe they are tired of people talking about Olicity and not about the action scenes or the villains. Maybe they want us to care less about Oliver’s romantic life and more about his standing as a hero.

Maybe they never understood we are perfectly capable of doing both.

Either way, they did what they thought they had to do. They “fixed” it. And in doing so, they ruined it.
*  *  *
Wild Dog calling Felicity “blondie” is just a symptom of the disease called disregard. It’s not even on him, the show has pushed Felicity to the side, made her the blonde who’s there on the lair and somehow knows things. How can we expect Wild Dog to respect her if the show doesn’t?
*  *  *
Oliver’s going on a date, but somehow Wild Dog and Curtis are the only ones whose reactions we get to see? Really? Do I have to remind you that Oliver and Felicity were engaged? Should I just write a list of things you seem to have forgotten about that are really important, for continuity’s sake?
*  *  *
I don’t even like Evelyn, and yet making her evil is a punch in the gut. Your one new female character is the evil one. Really? REALLY? But you’re a real feminist show, Arrow. Real feminist.

Edited November 18, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow takes on Vigilante, and his former self, in the latest episode of Arrow
Trent Moore  Thu, Nov 17, 2016 12:08am
http://www.blastr.com/2016-11-16/arrow-takes-vigilante-and-his-former-self-latest-episode-arrow

Quote

... But, one note: He’s this upset about missing his son’s birthday, yet literally volunteered to remain in prison for a crime he didn’t commit a couple weeks ago? Also, why didn’t Diggle just think to have his family come and see him. We’ve seen Lyla there before, and she’s obviously an expert in losing a tail. C’mon, at least give us a little consistency, guys. Diggle is awesome. Just let him be awesome. Also, does Lyla really not have enough pull at Argus to just get Diggle’s name cleared? 
*  *  *
We knew Carly Pope’s reporter character would be sticking around in a recurring role, but is Oliver really dumb enough to trust her? She built her career on hit pieces against his administration, and yes she’s giving him a chance, but is he really going to start dating this woman? Yes, Carly Pope is positively lovely, but a mayor dating a reporter is way too risky (and a major ethical conundrum, to boot). Which, maybe Oliver is just trying to keep her close so he can keep an eye on her? Time will tell.
*  *  *
Also, the gang fakes a bank robbery to draw out Vigilante? That is the definition of reckless. Sure, it’s played for a gag, but that is one heck of an overly-risky plan.

Edited November 18, 2016 by tv echo

[Ophanim]

Thnx @tv echo 

Finally, the critics started to notice inconsistency with writing. 

Edited November 18, 2016 by Lidach

[tv echo]

Arrow 5×07 Review: Countless Steps Back
November 17, 2016   ALYSSA BARBIERI
http://fangirlish.com/arrow-5x07-review-countless-steps-back/

Quote

You know the saying, “One step forward and two steps back?” I mean, how could I forget now that Arrow has shoved this useless reporter in my face and has her doling out advice. Cause that’s believable.
*  *  *
Anyway, Arrow season five has proven that that statement couldn’t be further from the truth. In Arrow‘s case there are no steps forward and countless steps back.

Arrow is so obsessed with recreating season one that it’s actually tainting this show that was once the strength of the DC television universe. Like it’s one thing to be inspired by something and it’s something else entirely to become obsessed with something and have it affect your show in this way.

We get it. Arrow season five is going “back to basics.” Whatever the hell that means. If I remember correctly, and I do, Arrow was never this show even back in season one. Arrow was always a show that understood what it was; understood its strengths; understood its characters; knew how to execute storylines in a way that doesn’t feel like a regurgitated mess.

To be honest, Arrow is boring.
*  *  *
Most of Arrow‘s audience has probably never even picked up a comic book. They tune in for the characters they’ve come to know and love; they tune in for good storytelling; they tune in because they give a damn about a show that they couldn’t give two shits is based on a comic book. And this is coming from a girl who loves her comics. But I can differentiate between mediums.
*  *  *
I’ve made it no secret how nauseous this whole Oliver and the reporter romance storyline makes me. But somehow the Arrow writers made it worse. As if that was possible. So let me get this straight, we’re supposed to believe that Oliver, who has more trust issues than I can count on my fingers, was so willing to open up to this practical stranger about this personal struggle he’s facing?

This is a conversation that Oliver should be having with Felicity or Diggle or Thea. Those are the most important people in his life. Those are the people that he feels comfortable opening up to. Those are the people he can trust. Those are the people that it actually makes sense for him to talk to. But then again Arrow has shown that it takes no stock in sense this season.
*  *  *
To be honest, this just feels like they’re trying to give Evelyn something to do. It’s like the writers realized that they overstocked on new characters and needed to make them relevant in some way. (Except Rory, he’s my favorite and has a purpose and a personality and a likeability. Please keep him.) But this reveal, while shocking, felt like the contrived drama Arrow has been relying on all season.

Edited November 18, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow Season 5 Episode 7 Review – ‘Vigilante’
NOVEMBER 17, 2016 BY JESSIE ROBERTSON 
http://www.flickeringmyth.com/2016/11/arrow-season-5-episode-7-review-vigilante/

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I’m quietly liking Arrow better than The Flash this season. Above you, you see Constantin Kovar (or better known to most children of the 80’s, Ivan Drago); he was in full Drago mode in an avant-garde lit fight scene that was one of the more intense of the season, a real street fight. I can’t believe I’m interested in the flashbacks this season; Kovar’s reveals tonight of Tainia’s mother and working with the Bratva are shams; at least to Oliver, but there is always a bit of truth in every conceived lie and we at least saw one part of it was not fiction; this is getting good.
*  *  *
Unlike last night’s disappointing Flash titled after it’s villain of the week, tonight’s “Vigilante” offers up another new character imposing his will upon Star City; but he won’t be vanquished with the headlights of a car, no no no, he’s here to stay and play! Definitely getting a Punisher vibe off of him but I dug the outfit and the disappearing trick when Oliver tried to take off his helmet. He isn’t messing around either; hollow point bullets, semi-automatic weapons, he’s taking people out- I mean, he made a “V” out of human beings!!! What?? This show is forgoing the mystic and magic and bringing you real dirty pain and suffering. I’m glad he wasn’t done away with in one episode as he’ll continue to be a mirror into the past for Oliver as he tries to right his wrong ways and become the hero he was meant to be.
*  *  * 
The team got some drills in this week, baton fighting with Diggle, undercover work and they even got to rob a bank! And Felicity was in the field- that feels like forever. Maybe the most key scenes (again) were with Thea and Lance as they continue to lay their emotions out on the table in more incredible acting( which you don’t get to say lightly on an action show). This didn’t rival Paul Blackthorne’s powerhouse performance last season in “Canary Cry” but there are memories of it as he prepares himself to walk into a rehab facility, at Thea’s beckoning. Great stuff.
*  *  *
– Not convinced Susan Williams is a character I care about yet
– How old is Evelyn again? Because it feels wrong for her to wear a dress Miss Scarlet from Clue wouldn’t wear to a singles bar
*  *  *
– Anyone else wonder how Lance got that star checked for DNA and the cop doing it didn’t ask a single question about how he got it?

[tv echo]

Arrow Season 5 Episode 7 Review: “Vigilante” 
Chris King   November 16, 2016
http://www.tvovermind.com/the-cw/arrow/arrow-season-5-episode-7-review-vigilante

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While there has been no official announcement declaring Arrow Season 5 the final season of the superhero series and even though I highly doubt that the show will be ending after this year, it’s hard to shake the full-circle feeling that these fifth season episodes have been providing so far this fall. Although it doesn’t reflect as much on the past as last week’s hour did, “Vigilante” is another installment of Arrow that has Oliver looking back on his time as The Hood, as he’s confronted with a new Star City crime fighter that is even more ruthless than he was during his first year as the city’s protector.
*  *  *
... Could the way Oliver used to take down criminals actually be better than what he’s doing now?

The easy answer to this question is no, especially after Diggle’s encouraging speech to Oliver in last week’s episode, in which he fully explains how Oliver has grown into a better man. It’s here where “Vigilante” falters a little bit; while it might make sense that Oliver would temporarily doubt his current methods, the fact that he has to turn to Susan for advice at the bar doesn’t really fit with what we saw from him last week. Diggle’s honest and open words really appeared to have an impact on Oliver and having him even momentarily consider switching back to his more lethal style of fighting crime cheapens the best friends’ moments together from “So It Begins.” I get how and why the Arrow writers want to strengthen the Oliver/Susan dynamic and I’m enjoying the chemistry between Stephen Amell and Carly Pope (even if we know this relationship is 100% doomed to fail), but to make her a confidant of Oliver’s after only one drink feels a little too quick and a little too easy.
*  *  *
As sweet as that scene with Diggle, Lyla, and John Jr. was, I couldn’t help but think that it would have been better with Baby Sara. God damn you and your time-traveling ways, Barry Allen.

Edited November 18, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

‘Arrow’ Recap: A Traitor Revealed
Robert Chan  November 17, 2016
https://www.yahoo.com/tv/arrow-recap-a-traitor-revealed-120947819.html

Quote

During their search for Vigilante, Diggle loses it on a gun shop owner. Rene and Curtis discover it’s because he’s missed his son’s second birthday party on account of all the U.S. marshals surveilling his house. At the end of the episode, Rene smuggles JJ and Lyla to Diggle’s hideout so he can still celebrate with his family. It’s a really neat moment, not just because a 2-year-old with cake is adorable, but because the new team is starting to forge relationships that don’t go through Oliver. The more they know each other outside their missions, the tenser the missions become because we know they care about each other as people as well as teammates. Rene and Digg have now bonded over military service, torture, and birthday parties, which totally makes sense in the Arrowverse.
*  *  *
There’s a lot of potential in the story of Quentin’s alcoholism, but by cordoning off Thea and Quentin from the rest of the team, it really takes the emotional stakes out of the story. If you started watching Arrow in Season 5, you could be forgiven for wondering why anyone would even care about this useless drunk. We don’t see any emotional ties between him and any of the rest of the team; he never establishes himself as a trusted or useful member of the team or the mayor’s office. So when he relapses, there’s nothing at stake. Sure, he has four seasons’ worth of emotional investment, but if he disappeared this episode, none of the rest of the stories — not Prometheus, not Vigilante, not Susan Williams and all of the mayor stuff — would be affected one bit, and that’s a shame.
*  *  *
*Speaking of stakes: It’s hard to care too much about Evelyn being a traitor because she’s such a poorly drawn character. If David [he means Rory] betrayed the team, it would hurt because he’d be betraying his father’s legacy too; if Curtis were the turncoat, his history with Felicity would be a lie. Rene has come so far from his days of indiscriminate violence, but all we know about Evelyn is she thinks Oliver’s list is creepy.
*  *  *
*A little bit of the old playboy Oliver is showing. He thinks he’s so sexy, he can woo the reporter who chewed up and spat out his sister. When she buries him with the Russian mob story and the city votes to recall him as mayor, just remember: He brought it on himself.

Edited November 18, 2016 by tv echo

[looptab]

I'm so glad everyone is pointing out how this reporter thing is  stupid.