The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[SmallScreenDiva]

Interesting write-up. I'm really curious about this line ... who do we know from any of the Arrowverse shows that fit this?

" ... It's also been hard for fans to ignore the various behind-the-scenes problems these series have been dealing with, whether its cast members abruptly dropping out over creative differences, or — far more seriously — core writer-producer Andrew Kreisberg recently being suspended due to sexual harassment accusations."

[Featherhat]

1 hour ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Interesting write-up. I'm really curious about this line ... who do we know from any of the Arrowverse shows that fit this?

" ... It's also been hard for fans to ignore the various behind-the-scenes problems these series have been dealing with, whether its cast members abruptly dropping out over creative differences, or — far more seriously — core writer-producer Andrew Kreisberg recently being suspended due to sexual harassment accusations."

Floriana Lima maybe? 

Apparently she wasn't happy as a regular for 2 lines and episode on Supergirl. Or Maybe someone we haven't heard about yet, though the way the article is worded it seems like something we already know. Maybe someone else lost in the move to Vancouver that The Week interpreted differently? VG wanted to go back to Broadway but again that could be interpreted differently.

Don't think it's anyone from Arrow unless its a secret. 

[way2interested]

I doubt any actor would publicly acknowledge or let publicly know that they dropped out of a show for creative differences since it would pretty much make them a liability to hire for future projects, so it's weird that they act like it's obvious (JB leaving kind of sounded like that from how the actors and EPs were describing that, but even that wasn't abrupt since it was the end of the season anyway and it's not like he dropped out--if anything they dropped him).

[Featherhat]

Maybe they're referring to the semi spat between him and MG on SM and his offscreen "blowing up"?

[kes0704]

3 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Interesting write-up. I'm really curious about this line ... who do we know from any of the Arrowverse shows that fit this?

" ... It's also been hard for fans to ignore the various behind-the-scenes problems these series have been dealing with, whether its cast members abruptly dropping out over creative differences, or — far more seriously — core writer-producer Andrew Kreisberg recently being suspended due to sexual harassment accusations."

Could it be referring to Willa? When her episode count was reduced there were differing accounts about the reason why with Willa saying it wasn’t up to her and MG saying it was Willa’s choice, and she seems to miss being Speedy.  

Edited December 2, 2017 by kes0704

[Sunshine]

Maybe they thought Manu Bennett did. He certainly didn’t care for how Slade was written in S3 and made it known.

[tv echo]

Arrowverse Crossover Quotes: The 12 Best Lines From 'Crisis on Earth-X'
By Andy Swift and Vlada Gelman / December 2 2017, 12:00 PM PST
https://tvline.com/2017/12/02/arrowverse-crossover-best-moments-crisis-on-earth-x-quotes/

Quote

“Dayum!”
Yes, Barry (Grant Gustin), that’s how most people react to seeing Oliver Queen in a tuxedo
*  *  *
“Can you track it?”
“I once caught a deranged serial killer off his face cream. No joke.”
You can always count on Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards) for a good callback
*  *  *
“It was Oliver, but it wasn’t Oliver.”
“It was Oliver in the High Castle.”
We’re sure Iris (Candice Patton) is glad that Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards) is still able to make references at a time like this

Edited December 3, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Crisis on Earth X Is How You Do a DC Superhero Crossover
BY NICK MANGIONE 11.29.2017 :: 3:45PM EST
https://www.geek.com/television/crisis-on-earth-x-is-how-you-do-a-dc-superhero-crossover-1724295/

Quote

DC fans expect something special when they see that Crisis logo. It means you’re about to see a significant event that’s going to result in huge changes for the multiverse. It means every superhero is going to come together for the biggest fight they’ve ever had. These past two nights, we saw that the same holds true in the Arrowverse. For its second four-show crossover event, The CW delivered a 172-minute (without commercials) continuous story, pitting superheroes against each other and themselves. They pulled it off too, absolutely living up to that Crisis title. I hope the movie side of DC is paying attention to this.

... This year, the shows clearly learned from their mistakes. Where last year felt disjointed and awkwardly broken up, “Crisis on Earth X” was one long, continuous story. Watching them back to back, they blend together so well that the credits are the only indication you’ve moved from one show to another. The shows are well placed too, so their tone fits that specific point in the story. Supergirl maintains its sense of discovery and its focus on heroic women doing amazing things. Arrow is the dark middle chapter of the story. The Flash is a little more optimistic, but things are still pretty dire. Then Legends finishes out the crossover by being heroic, triumphant and all around chaotic.
*  *  *
... I like the amount of time the show spends on what it’s like when this group gets together. It feels like a reunion between friends who haven’t seen each other in a while. It’s what makes the rest of the crossover work. Now that these people have all met each other and become friendly (more than friendly in the case of Sara and Alex), the speed at which they team up to fight the Nazis that invade Barry and Iris’s wedding feels natural.

The fight scenes are truly spectacular. That’s the biggest advantage of this crossover event being spread across four shows. Even though the continuous story makes it feel like a nearly three-hour movie, it’s not structured like one. It’s structured like four TV shows. That means a lot more big action scenes. Each hour builds to its own climax. And boy, if it felt like last week’s episodes skimped in the special effects, now we know why. Clearly, each show was saving its budget for “Crisis.” ... The battles are commendably well-constructed, and though they lose the plot occasionally, they always pick it right back up. This many  superheroes on screen at once is bound to get confusing, especially when you add a time-ship battle to the mix at the end. The fact that these shows are able to let us see all the action without getting us lost is an impressive feat.
*  *  *
Once the Nazis show up, the story never slows down. You never get the sense that the story is being stretched to kill time. Each of the four episodes is needed to move the story forward. ...
*  *  *
The Nazis’ motive for invading Earth 1 is probably the weakest part of the crossover. At first, it seems like the Nazis have taken over one Earth, and their thirst for conquest brings them to another. That’s really all it had to be. Then, we find out that Nazi Green Arrow is married to Nazi Supergirl and that she flew too close to the yellow sun, which overcharged her heart. They’re in Earth 1 because Nazi Supergirl needs a heart transplant, and Kara, being genetically the same person, is the perfect donor. Of course, Kara doesn’t live on Earth 1, but she just happened to be visiting. And the Nazis knew everyone would be there for Barry and Iris’s wedding because…? Thawne, maybe? This kind of back and forth between conquest and Nazi-Oliver’s love for his wife adds an unnecessary complication that we can’t possibly care about. The subplot never really pays off and only serves to create conflict in the only part of the story that didn’t need any. It didn’t do any real damage to the overall story of the event, but it just made me ask, “why is this here?” every time it was brought up. Oh well, at least it led to Nazi-Supergirl exploding into a supernova. That was cool. Also, why is Eobard Thawne here? It’s never explained how he came back to life after dying in both The Flash season one and Legends of Tomorrow season two, with the latter being caught by the Death of Speedsters. Nor is he given a real reason for helping the Nazis other than the fact that he’s evil. Oh well, I guess it sets the stage for a future fight against Reverse Flash. That could be cool someday. I just wish it didn’t feel so artificial and tacked-on here.
*  *  *
The ending was especially fitting for a giant mash-up of these four particular shows. Neither really a comedy, nor a tragedy, the Arrowverse falls somewhere in the middle. So, it’s appropriate that it ends with both a double-wedding and a funeral. ... Barry and Iris finally got married (good, even The Flash’s writers knew it would be cruel to subject us to even one more episode of wedding planning), and so did Oliver and Felicity. Like any good DC “Crisis” story, the multiverse is markedly different from when it began.

Edited December 3, 2017 by tv echo

[statsgirl]

6 hours ago, tv echo said:

Arrowverse Crossover Quotes: The 12 Best Lines From 'Crisis on Earth-X'
By Andy Swift and Vlada Gelman / December 2 2017, 12:00 PM PST
https://tvline.com/2017/12/02/arrowverse-crossover-best-moments-crisis-on-earth-x-quotes/

From the comments, an Easter egg I completely missed

Quote

Kara to Eobard Thawne – “My cousin will save me.” And Ray shows up to do just that.

[SmallScreenDiva]

45 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

From the comments, an Easter egg I completely missed

Me, too! Found out about it through BR, LOL!

[tv echo]

The CW Crossover - Crisis on Earth X - Round-table Review
Posted by zandarl at December 04, 2017 
https://www.spoilertv.com/2017/12/the-cw-crossover-crisis-on-earth-x.html

Quote

1. When I heard they were tackling not only the evil doppelganger aspect but in the form of Nazis I was a bit concerned due to the sensitive nature surrounding such an issue do you feel it was handled well?
. . .
MK

Killing Stein, a jew, wasn't their best course of action but besides that, I think it was handled mostly okay. Felicity's monologue was impressive, it was great seeing them condemn the Nazi ideology. Overall they didn't have enough time to dig into the story cause all of the other stories our main characters were going through. But could've it gone down without it? For sure. 

LM
I thought this was handled quite well. I also think that it was incredibly brave and timely given the sudden appearance of a white supremacist movement. Showing even a hint of the barbarity of the concentration camps is a good reminder for people. I liked that they pointed out that it wasn’t just the Jewish people who were persecuted but also homosexuals. In fact, I did like the LGBTQ elements as well. I loved that Felicity was a hero on Earth X – and we got to see her as a brunette (still beautiful!). I loved her speech that she was going to honor her grandparents by not letting the Nazis take Kara as well. A slightly more subtle reminder was the Star of David on Dr Stein’s coffin.
. . . 
DR
I feel the issue of the villains being Nazis was handled well. Other shows such as Doctor Who have used them as villains before. I think perhaps they chose that because this is a villain that could be recognized as such on all the Earths. That being said, I think they addressed the sensitive nature well. Having Martin and Felicity embracing their Jewish heritage to challenge them was very effective. Think about it, Felicity, without superpowers, stood in front of a weakened Supergirl to protect her from Dark Arrow, while channeling her Jewish grandparents.
.  .  .
JZ
... I get that this is a network television show, so they can’t do some of these things, but if they had these sorts of limitations then they just should have not even tried to go there. Make it a fictional dictatorship, looking at how weak this show set up the environment it wouldn’t have been that hard to do. The only people I think managed to capture the appropriate tone for this event were Paul Blackthorne and Colin Donnell. They spoke about the Reich with believability. I got chills at how sinister they were. I also enjoyed Paul’s accent. The only thing even remotely Germanic on the show, yet another issue that completely perplexed me.
*  *  *
2. Evil Kara / Overgirl or Evil Oliver/ The Fuhrer: Who did you prefer and do you feel their marriage was a good or bad plot point?

DC
Evil Kara was so dark she killed The Greatest American Hero (The priest at Barry and Iris wedding). I loved seeing Overgirl vs Supergirl as complete opposites. Oliver didn’t appear much different as we all have seen dark brooding Oliver. I found Paul Blackthorne’s Characterization of Quentin Lance as an Evil SS Captain more chilling. 
The marriage, seriously why. So he would fight for his love .. would have worked but for the fact they had zero chemistry and the scenes looked awkward. The face Supergirl pulled when she saw it ..yep that was me too. 
.  .  .
DR
I preferred Evil Kara/Overgirl, Melissa Benoist was brilliant playing her doppelganger, and there was a clear distinction between Evil Kara and Good Kara. However, I do not think the lines of distinction between Evil Oliver and Good Oliver were as clear. They even said it in the episode, he needed to tone down his brooding, and his scowling nature reminded me too much of brooding Oliver from seasons past. There was no mistake Evil Kara was evil and Melissa Benoist is to be commended for her outstanding performance, especially for the scenes she had with herself. She created two very distinct characters. I think their marriage was a good plot point because it did show the one difference between Evil Oliver and Good Oliver. Evil Oliver, while committed to the cause and the Fatherland still had room in his life for love and commitment, while good Oliver had to be convinced by Barry that there was room in his life for love and still be committed to his cause. Benoist and Amell both did a commendable job conveying their characters closeness, despite how evil their characters were.
.  .  .
AM
... The marriage between Evil Kara and Evil Oliver was an interesting twist and might have worked better if Melissa Benoist and Stephen Amell had better romantic onscreen chemistry, but sadly they don’t. Kara and Oliver are best left off as friends because on the friend level they do have a great dynamic. On the romantic level that’s one of the unexpected relationships in the crossover that simply did not work. ... She tried very hard to lock into that connection with Stephen Amell, but they could never quite lock it in and it might have been from his side, though, he was excellent in every other aspect of the event. The only place their dynamic failed was when they tried to convince the audience their characters were in love. Perhaps with a bit more setup time and the performers having more time to forge a bond outside of the chaos of crossover work then it could have had better chances of success. ...

JZ
God, that was terrible acting on the parts of Stephen and Melissa. Two broomsticks would have more chemistry than these two and in an episode where EVERYONE had amazing interactions, they stood out in a bad way. Something that you should not have to say about two leads. Because of the acting, none of it worked. But the idea of having them be husband and wife intrigued me and I think if it could have worked. 
*  *  *
5. The 4-episode arc played like a movie. What where your thoughts on the crossover over and what mark would you give it out of 10? 
.  .  .
DC
... The wedding being interrupted was predictable. Nothing ever goes to plan but I think they should have let them say I do first. The double wedding at the end… I can imagine all the fans of Iris and Barry and Oliver and Felicity will feel cheated with this. Personally, I would have ended it with a small ceremony at Jitters with them getting married and the whole gang there.
.  .  .
AM
...  Iris and Felicity were dropped right into the middle of everything and they didn’t fail to surprise with their tenacity and creativity in trying to rescue Kara. Though that first attempt didn’t end well, it’s the thought that counts. ...
.  .  .
JZ
... The ending? A 4/10. The double wedding idea was silly. I think Arrow and Flash fans deserved to see these weddings on their respective shows in their entire glory.

Edited December 5, 2017 by tv echo

[leopardprint]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

DR
I feel the issue of the villains being Nazis was handled well. Other shows such as Doctor Who have used them as villains before. I think perhaps they chose that because this is a villain that could be recognized as such on all the Earths. That being said, I think they addressed the sensitive nature well. Having Martin and Felicity embracing their Jewish heritage to challenge them was very effective. Think about it, Felicity, without superpowers, stood in front of a weakened Supergirl to protect her from Dark Arrow, while channeling her Jewish grandparents.

When did Stein embrace his Jewish heritage to challenge them? I actually thought that was a glaring omission but maybe I just missed it? 

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

Evil Oliver, while committed to the cause and the Fatherland still had room in his life for love and commitment, while good Oliver had to be convinced by Barry that there was room in his life for love and still be committed to his cause.

I don't think this person and I saw the same show because I'm pretty sure Oliver was after Felicity to marry him the entire time and wowee what a weird comparison. 

Edited December 5, 2017 by leopardprint

[Trisha]

EW Rick Gonzalez's interview
http://ew.com/tv/2017/12/06/rick-gonzalez-arrow-midseason-finale-interview/ 

Non spoiler-y bits:

Quote

On another note — EP Andrew Kreisberg was recently fired from WB after multiple allegations of sexual harassment [which he has denied] came to light. I know he wasn’t as involved with Arrow as some of the other shows, but how did you and the cast react when you first found out about the allegations and his subsequent firing? 
I think it’s an unfortunate situation that happened. First and foremost, I want to say my heart goes out to any women who have gone through sexual harassment. I’m an advocate of women. I think women are special creatures and beings and people we should respect and love and laud and uphold. I don’t have much to say about the situation. I didn’t really know Andrew, so there’s not much I can say about it, except that I think it’s unfortunate that this situation came out and it’s out there. But I love women and women are so important in this world, and I think it’s important for us to protect them and respect their feelings and what they go through and to uphold who they are, and I champion women.

That was a pretty good, diplomatic answer. It's hard to be asked these questions when you're still employed by the show (and MG is the showrunner), but I think he handled it well. Also, I seem to recall him brushing off questions about EBR in the past, but he's sure changed his tune:

Quote

I think one of the most iconic things about Arrow is that organically, Felicity Smoak, a really smart, techy, nerdy, cute girl who was just there to help Oliver find out some information, all of a sudden became the love of his life. I think that was a surprise to the writers. I think it’s also kudos to Emily Bett Rickards, who took a small character and made it amazing. I think she’s just an amazing actress. Every day when I see her work and the stuff that she creates with this character, she just makes it look so effortless — just the small quirks and the love that she displays for Oliver. I think what we can anticipate is [the culmination] of that relationship and seeing how much they care about each other. So, I think ultimately, that’s the important thing there, in terms of the writers showing the amazing and organic chemistry that Felicity and Oliver have and how well it works. I think she’s an amazing character to the universe because she’s just as important as Oliver to the team, the city.

[Midnight Lullaby]

I’m not a fan of “it’s unfortunate this situation came out and it’s out there”. I’m sorry if it makes things uncomfortable for people that had nothing to do with it but the priority is the victims here and I’m very happy they had the courage to speak up and the situation is out there. It’s the only reason he got fired and people can have a safe work environment.

[Trisha]

45 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I’m not a fan of “it’s unfortunate this situation came out and it’s out there”.

Yeah I hated that part too, but I think that the quote in full is good. He started with "I think it’s an unfortunate situation that happened" and then got a little lost before finding his way back.  

[JJ928]

I had an issue with him calling women special creatures/beings. That kind of statement rings so phony and wrong to me. Women want to be looked at as human beings, that are treated equally to men. I’m suspicious when men oversell things or put us on a pedestal, in my experience those are the men that end up being complicit or guilty. Honestly, his answer came off as: don’t know him, not my problem, don’t care but can’t say that here.

He can compliment Emily all he wants and I’m still annoyed by his AK answer.

[Midnight Lullaby]

11 minutes ago, Trisha said:

Yeah I hated that part too, but I think that the quote in full is good. He started with "I think it’s an unfortunate situation that happened" and then got a little lost before finding his way back.  

Yeah, I understand and I agree to a point..it’s just that I feel like it’s something men really think at the moment..that it’s unfortunate all the gross stuff men did is being exposed because they feel it paints them all, in a way, in a negative light and honestly I don’t care about their feelings at all. 

[bethy]

5 minutes ago, JJ928 said:

 

I had an issue with him calling women special creatures/beings.

 

This was my issue, too. It comes across as condescending to me. I’m not a special snowflake; I’m simply a fellow human being who should be treated with consideration and respect just like every other human being on the planet.

[Guest]

Yeah, I have to admit there's something about his AK answer that doesn't sit right with me and yet I can't quite put my finger on what? It's really strange. I think his intention is good but maybe he was not expecting the question and just got a bit tongue tied?

Edited December 6, 2017 by Guest

[leopardprint]

I don't think that's a good answer especially when other cast members have put out much more forceful statements. Maybe that's an unfair comparison but his statement was fairly paternalistic and more about what women are to men. 

Edited December 6, 2017 by leopardprint

[Chaser]

He makes woman sound like prized pets.

I don't think that was his intention but I'm not a fan of that answer.

[Primal Slayer]

1 hour ago, Trisha said:

EW Rick Gonzalez's interview
http://ew.com/tv/2017/12/06/rick-gonzalez-arrow-midseason-finale-interview/ 

Non spoiler-y bits:

That was a pretty good, diplomatic answer. It's hard to be asked these questions when you're still employed by the show (and MG is the showrunner), but I think he handled it well. Also, I seem to recall him brushing off questions about EBR in the past, but he's sure changed his tune:

I am surprised that his team didn't tell EW "all questions about AK are not allowed" 

14 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

I don't think that's a good answer especially when other cast members have put out much more forceful statements. Maybe that's an unfair comparison but his statement was fairly paternalistic and more about what women are to men. 

Other cast members to my knowledge have addressed things on their own time and not asked point blank about it and having to address it directly.

[leopardprint]

22 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Other cast members to my knowledge have addressed things on their own time and not asked point blank about it and having to address it directly.

That's true, I was going to add a comment that perhaps he's limited by the network press people in what he can say in official press. I also think that it's weird they didn't tell EW not ask especially since he's new he probably didn't work with him. I still think it wasn't a very good statement. 

Edited December 6, 2017 by leopardprint

[statsgirl]

2 hours ago, Angel12d said:

Yeah, I have to admit there's something about his AK answer that doesn't sit right with me and yet I can't quite put my finger on what? It's really strange. I think his intention is good but maybe he was not expecting the question and just got a bit tongue tied?

Is it this part?

Quote

I think it’s unfortunate that this situation came out and it’s out there.

It makes it sound like the unfortunate part is that it came out, not that AK was responsible for the harassment.   I'm not sure what would have worked better because I'm sure AK still has a lot of friends on the show.  Probably the Helbings, so he can't really come out and say anything really condemning AK. He's the junior on the block.

Madison McLaughlin tweeted in support

Then there's this part

Quote

I think that’s something that lends itself, again, to who Rene is. He’s someone who cares about his friends, so it’s going to be personal for him. It’s going to be something where he needs to act upon these things because he cares about protecting his friends, he cares about being loyal. I worry about the person who stands in the way of Wild Dog and the people he cares about.

Spoiler

So if Wild Dog is so supportive of his friends, how is he going to justify ratting Oliver out?

Edited December 6, 2017 by saoirse
Added spoiler tag

[Midnight Lullaby]

I’m happy Madison had a good experience with him but that doesn’t mean a person can’t say something wrong or in a wrong way because he is a friend of hers.

[SmallScreenDiva]

30 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

It makes it sound like the unfortunate part is that it came out, not that AK was responsible for the harassment.   I'm not sure what would have worked better because I'm sure AK still has a lot of friends on the show.  Probably the Helbings, so he can't really come out and say anything really condemning AK. He's the junior on the block.

Yeah, that part gave me pause, too. Because it did read as if he was sorry the news about the harassment came out. 

As for his extensive praise of EBR/Felicity ... I think the last two HVFF cons finally clued him in as to how popular EBR/Felicity is with the fandom and how it's probably not a good idea to dismiss or ignore questions about the blonde girl. 

[catrox14]

Yeah I'm always not okay with the whole, women must be cherished and protected thing. It's patronizing. I think he meant well as in supporting women but he didn't really say it that well. 

[Morrigan2575]

Sounds to me like he's going back to the first sentence with the unfortunate. He's not saying it's unfortunate it came.out but, that it's unfortunate this is still going on.

I'm going to give the guy a break in that he was answering a question and didn't have time to write/rewrite, get a statement proof read etc. The message seems clear (to me) when taken in context, he simply used poor word choice.

[WindofChange]

3 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I'm going to give the guy a break in that he was answering a question and didn't have time to write/rewrite, get a statement proof read etc. The message seems clear (to me) when taken in context, he simply used poor word choice.

Agreed. And shame on EW for putting him on the spot like that with a question that shouldn't have been asked in the first place.

Nielsen Social Ratings: November 27 – December 3

Arrow made the Nielsen top 10 last week for the first time in a long time! It was one of only 3 scripted shows to have made it

This is the power of Olicity :') I'd like to thank the fans as well as the haters who keep talking about them for making this happen.

http://fanfest.com/2017/12/06/nielsen-social-ratings-november-27-december-3/

[SmallScreenDiva]

2 hours ago, WindofChange said:

Nielsen Social Ratings: November 27 – December 3

Arrow made the Nielsen top 10 last week for the first time in a long time! It was one of only 3 scripted shows to have made it

This is the power of Olicity :') I'd like to thank the fans as well as the haters who keep talking about them for making this happen.

http://fanfest.com/2017/12/06/nielsen-social-ratings-november-27-december-3/

 

I believe Arrow has made the Daily Top 5 this season but the Weekly Top 10 is even more impressive. Especially since that week is the week of the crossover. 

[tv echo]

Moreover...

[tv echo]

I don't think this video was posted previously (if it was, I don't recall) - another clip from Nov. 7 media set visit (no spoilers)...

Emily Bett Rickards on Felicity Smoak's Courage | Arrow Season 6 on Set
Published on Dec 1, 2017, by KSiteTV

-- EBR: "I think it says that she's more courageous. I think that she believes in herself more. I also think that she thinks she's more capable. I think that - you know, it's sort of that thing when you're faced with an ultimatum, like, you just have to take the one that is serviceable. You just can't sit back and do nothing. And that's always been the person she is, since Season 1, since we met her. What she wasn't faced with before we met her - because her life did exist for, you know, 20-some odd years before we did - she wasn't faced with the challenge. Um, I think she was in college, when she was sort of Goth Felicity, as we call her, and, you know, she was becoming a hacktivist, but something switched there where, she was like, no, I'm going to put this more into a good realm. And I think getting stagnant again would probably be one of her biggest fears. And I don't think she'll ever get back there. And if we do see her get back there, I honestly think we'd be very disappointed in her, and I think she'd be more disappointed in herself."

Edited December 7, 2017 by tv echo

[Soulfire]

 

Edited December 7, 2017 by Soulfire

[Mary0360]

So sweet. 

[Mellowyellow]

OMG The feels!!!!!! Seeing their first date clip has made me realise how much they've grown. 

[tv echo]

EW reviewer gave 609 a B (I disagree strongly that this episode made us "understand both sides" or that Thea was being "level-headed" in asking Oliver to forgive Rene)...

Arrow recap: 'Irreconcilable Differences'
CHANCELLOR AGARD December 07, 2017 AT 11:23 PM EST
http://ew.com/recap/arrow-season-6-episode-9/

Quote

The wedding is definitely the fun part of the episode, and it gives us a chance to check with everyone. While Oliver and Felicity celebrate their long-awaited marriage — which feels very earned after six years of watching this relationship develop — the Team Arrow newbies drown their sorrows in alcohol, especially the recently divorced Curtis. Thankfully, Rene stops Curtis before he embarrasses himself too much during a drunken wedding toast. The crowning moment of the entire wedding, however, is when Quentin goes full surrogate father and gives Oliver the watch his father gave him. This surrogate father-son relationship is one of Arrow‘s most effective pairings because the show has put time into developing it. Sometimes Arrow has a tendency to rush over important steps in relationships, but they allowed this one take its course at a reasonable pace. It feels right that Oliver and Quentin would be in such a good place.
*  *  *
... If Oliver wants Quentin back, he needs to break into ARGUS and steal something called a nano-aluminum amplifier, which I refuse to believe is actually a real thing. At least once an episode, I feel like Arrow is just making things up.
*  *  *
What makes this latest team squabble different from arguments of the past is that the show has done a good job of making sure we understand both sides, and it’s not unevenly weighted toward Oliver being right. On the one hand, it’s understandable that Oliver would fall back on his old, untrusting ways and spy on his team instead of directly confronting them. He’s in a tough position and there’s a chance he could lose William. That being said, the newbies are very uncomfortable with the surveillance.

At the same time, it’s easy to see where Rene is coming from, and Oliver understands that, too, as he tells Thea, who drops by the bunker for a Queen sibling heart-to-heart. Thea points out that if he can see Rene’s perspective, then that means he should eventually be able to forgive him. This episode also proved that the show has definitely been missing something without Willa Holland around. Both Holland and her character bring level-headedness to the show’s proceedings.
*  *  *
Midseason Thoughts: In some ways, Arrow season 6 has so far struggled to remain at the same level as season 5, but that’s not a big problem. The dip in quality between seasons 5 and 6 isn’t as bad as the one between season 2 and 3. Part of the reason for that is Arrow has mostly worked through its Oliver problem, meaning he’s no longer an insufferable brood, and has also made the show less Oliver centric. The show does feel like it’s still struggling to adjust to this new post-season 5 world, and the season’s story line isn’t coming together as much as we would hope; however, this may be a symptom of Arrow needing to introduce all of these villains in order to end the first half of the season. The introduction Cayden’s cabal of villains gives me hope that the back half of the season will be much tighter.

Edited December 8, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

A.V. Club reviewer gave 609 a B- (once again, I feel like the reviewer is ignoring the fact that Oliver had good reason for his mistrust this time because he was actually betrayed by a trusted teammate in a very detrimentally life-changing way)...

Once again, Arrow pretends to burn it all down
Allison Shoemaker  December 8, 2017
https://www.avclub.com/once-again-arrow-pretends-to-burn-it-all-down-1821114139

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Here’s the short and vaguely irritated version of the review that follows below: Oh great, Oliver’s trust and emotional issues get in the way of his decision-making, and the results are disastrous — again. Listen, Arrow has passed the 100-episode mark, and at a certain point, repetition becomes inevitable. That’s not a deal-breaker, and “Irreconcilable Differences” isn’t, either. I’ve seen worse hours of television this week. What’s frustrating is that it’s all so flat. If you swapped some old characters in for Team Newbie and exchanged Cayden James for, say, Damien Darhk, it would pretty much work. That’s not good, and it makes for a predictably explosive mid-season finale.
*  *  *
That’s the new team, so about the old one: Dinah, Curtis, and Rene are all out. Definitely out. Permanently out. Pay no attention to the fact that those characters have logos that appear in the opening credits sequence, or that the season has been diligently focused on the ideas of families, chosen and otherwise. They’re totally, definitely, certainly out forever.
*  *  *
... There’s nothing wrong with a cliffhanger that’s obviously not going to stick, as long as it offers a genuine thrill, a moment of suspense, or emotional catharsis. This dissolution offers none of those things. Oliver not trusting the team is old news, and Arrow was still exploring what it’s like when he does trust these people. There’s no way the story isn’t about the team sticking together in the long run, and this breakup doesn’t hurt at all because the writers purposefully avoid having any character say or do anything that’s wholly unforgivable, especially given that Oliver almost finds his way to forgiving Rene for turning witness in the first 30 minutes.
*  *  *
Cayden James may be a genius, but letting Team Arrow destroy the piece of important science equipment when he had a camera the whole time and totally knew it was coming seems not smart.

Edited December 8, 2017 by tv echo

[Mellowyellow]

@tv echo I feel like these reviewers just ignored the fact that he was trusting them and then got a big slap on the face to find out one of them was betraying him. 

I thought it was obvious in the episode so it's quite bizzare that all these reviewers are missing the point and acting like Oliver is on some random paranoid kick. 

Edited December 8, 2017 by Mellowyellow

[tv echo]

Once again, why is the reviewer focusing on Oliver's distrust, when Rene's betrayal and Dinah's hypocrisy are the bigger sins?...

ARROW: "IRRECONCILABLE DIFFERENCES" REVIEW
JESSE SCHEEDEN   December 7, 2017
http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/12/08/arrow-irreconcilable-differences-review

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Normally, midseason finales are always worth looking forward to in the Arrowverse. If the series is question is already on firm footing, the new twists and story developments only further that momentum. And if the show is struggling at the time, these episodes offer a chance to ramp things up and pave the way for a stronger second half to come. Sadly, neither was the case with “Irreconcilable Differences.” Arrow was in a rough place before now, and this episode does nothing to suggest that things will improve in 2018.

The thing about Arrow is that even in its weaker period during Seasons 3 and 4, at least it had strong, memorable villains to fall back upon. Season 6 doesn’t even have that. Michael Emerson’s Cayden James is easily the least compelling main villain this series has ever had. Sure, Emerson’s performance elevates the character somewhat, but that can only do so much to hide the character’s lack of depth or interesting wrinkles. This episode didn’t even bother to flesh out James’ vague vendetta against Oliver Queen, leaving James to devolve into a villain obsessed with destruction for destruction’s sake.
*  *  *
Honestly, that final reveal should have been the spark to reinvigorate this season. It’s basically akin to Arrow gaining its own Legion of Doom. Except that the Legion of Doom worked so well on Legends of Tomorrow because it was a group of well-established villains with significant ties to the show’s main heroes. This group seems little more than “whomever happens to be available at the moment.” Why is Anatoly part of this super-group? Why is Vigilante suddenly a supervillain mastermind? Why is the appearance of Ricardo Diaz significant when the character has had all of two minutes of screen time this season? There’s no weight to any of this because there was no effort to build up this team before now.
*  *  *
The same goes for the interpersonal drama plaguing Team Arrow. It feels like a very abrupt shift to have Ollie suddenly brooding again and doubting his team, especially in light of the cheerful wedding sequence that opened this episode. The Rene reveal is equally frustrating, as there was never any sense that he was hiding a secret of that caliber beforehand. The writers really needed to have done more to pave the way for this Team Arrow breakup leading up to this episode. As it is, it feels like they’re simply rehashing the same beats from Season 5, where Ollie had to learn to put his trust in others again.

Edited December 8, 2017 by tv echo

[way2interested]

That's so weird. Like, it seemed pretty obvious that the writers went out of their way to try to make the anger between both sides justified at least to an extent (which one is more justified is a different discussion), so I don't get being annoyed with Oliver. Heck, they even showed Oliver being more developed enough, being aware enough to know he was jumping to distrust but for preservation reasons, to forgive Rene and Dinah and to move forward but then Curtis and Rene were the ones to then just brush off Oliver (and Felicity and Diggle). Narratively, the show shuffled the blame around.

[tv echo]

And once again, I have to disagree with the reviewer for criticizing Oliver for his mistrust and surveillance of the newbies (but kudos for the Olicity comments)...

Arrow Season 6 Episode 9 Review: “Irreconcilable Differences” 
Chris King  December 8, 2017
http://www.tvovermind.com/the-cw/arrow/arrow-season-6-episode-9-review-irreconcilable-differences

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After bouncing back from the two-part Deathstroke arc with two strong  episodes, Arrow takes another slight misstep again in tonight’s mid-season finale, “Irreconcilable Differences.” There’s a lot of fantastic moments in this episode, most of them taking place at Oliver and Felicity’s wedding celebration, as the two of them are surrounded by family and friends: Felicity’s mother and father walk her into the party as if they’re walking her down the aisle, Dig dances to Pink’s “Raise Your Glass” alongside Thea and William, and Quentin presents Oliver with the watch that his father gave to him on his own wedding day. That Oliver/Quentin scene is easily my favorite moment of the episode, because unlike the manufactured drama that follows the wedding, it’s a moment that’s honest and believable, a moment that has been earned by nearly six seasons of character development. We’ve seen Quentin Lance transform from the man who hated Oliver Queen more than anyone else in Star City to a surrogate father to the vigilante mayor. “It’s not right you don’t have a parent here tonight,” Quentin tells Oliver, and whether Lance realizes it or not, he does a fantastic job of slipping into those parental shoes and providing Oliver with the family he needs during that exchange. Such wonderful writing.

And even though Rene’s actions later on in the episode slightly taint his emotional speech, the words he delivers are also wonderful and extremely heartfelt. He calls Oliver and Felicity the most genuine people he knows, describing how they would do anything and everything for each other and that they are essentially the best representation of true love. However, any Arrow fan watching doesn’t need to hear Rene’s words to know all of that is true; they just have to watch the performances of Stephen Amell and Emily Bett Rickards, who say so much with barely any dialogue during those opening scenes. For once, Oliver and Felicity find peace not in Ivy Town or on a beach somewhere but in their own home, in Star City, and even though it barely lasts a night, it’s more than enough for them, as one can tell by their beaming smiles and body language.

It doesn’t matter that their superheroes; Oliver Queen and Felicity Smoak are regular ol’ newlyweds, and they enjoy every single second of it because neither of them believed they’d ever have it. Oliver was a broken shell of a human being and Felicity was a lonely IT girl consumed with the fantasy of doing something more, and they found their way to each other, through all the violence and the pain and the heartbreak. They’ve been each other’s constants for the last six years, through Slade Wilson and Ra’s al Ghul and Prometheus, through all the crazy variables that life has thrown their way. They deserve to have this time together, and it’s the closest “Irreconcilable Differences” comes to a happy ending.

Because following Oliver and Felicity’s party, we get thrown into a black hole of unnecessary, BS drama that feels like it only exists to try and “shake things up” rather than push this season’s story forward in real, captivating ways. Pretty much all of this eye roll-inducing conflict stems from the news that someone on Team Arrow has betrayed Oliver and is planning on testifying against him. Ultimately, it’s revealed to be Rene, who comes clean and says that he agreed to help Watson to ensure that he and Zoe would be reunited, but Oliver, Felicity and Diggle deciding to spy on all three of their fellow teammates causes an irreparable rift in the group, one that sees Oliver kicking Rene off the team when he disobeys him out in the field and Dinah and Curtis leaving the team of their own free will because they can’t trust the OTA members anymore.

What bothers me so much about this storyline is that every single member of Team Arrow, especially Oliver, Diggle, and Felicity, has seen how lies have torn the team apart in the past. Secrets held in order to protect others or to protect oneself almost always end up resulting in an explosion of anger and distrust that typically takes weeks, if not months, to repair. Therefore, I object to the idea that Rene wouldn’t at least talk to Oliver first before making his deal with Watson, and I also don’t believe that Oliver would choose to spy on all three of his teammates rather than have an upfront conversation with them. I do like that the Arrow writers smartly brought in Evelyn’s betrayal from last season as a motivator here; it grounds the storyline in a somewhat realistic manner. However, Evelyn’s deceit alone should not be enough to blind Oliver to the potential repercussions of his actions, to the fact that honesty and trust are essential components of the team’s DNA and he’s dismissing them in his anger-charged pursuit.

... This is only the beginning of James’s devious plan, and while the prospect of connecting all these seemingly disparate villains together in one evil group excites me, I’m not sure any fun, future storylines with these evildoers are worth sacrificing the intelligence and integrity of our central characters. Seriously, how have tech geniuses like Felicity or Curtis not realized that a hidden camera has been implanted inside of the bunker?
*  *  *
The fact that Vigilante is working with Cayden James makes me even more upset that Dinah is aligning herself with him at the end of the episode. Dinah Drake is so much better than this manipulative bull crap she’s getting fed right now, and I hope she wises up soon.
*  *  *
Can we talk about the way Oliver looks at Felicity when she walks into the room at the beginning of the episode? If that’s not a man in love, please tell me what is.

Edited December 8, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Collider reviewer seems to admire Dinah for having "standards" - I say, yes, she does have standards, but they're double standards...

‘Arrow’ Midseason Finale Recap: “Irreconcilable Differences” — Et Tu, Rene?
BY KAYTI BURT      DECEMBER 7, 2017
http://collider.com/arrow-season-6-episode-9-recap/

Quote

Six seasons into a network show, it’s not always easy to find new, organic sources of drama, but Arrow’s decision to explore tensions between the original members of Team Arrow and the newbies is a brilliant one. Whether you’re Team OTA or Team Newbie, “Irreconcilable Differences” probably did a good job of convincing you the other side had some good points. Like any great drama, this struggle isn’t black-and-white.
*  *  *
One of the weaker aspects of the Rene betrayal plot, and the Oliver indictment storyline in general, is how Arrow dances around the fact that Oliver is guilty of everything the FBI is accusing him of. He is the Green Arrow. He has killed people, and acted outside of the law. Oliver became a vigilante because he correctly believed that the institutions put in place to protect the people and stop injustice and corruption were failing to do their job. Samanda Watson is an example of what it looks like when these institutions work. It’s not her fault that the person who should be held accountable for the crimes he’s committed is the star of this show. I’d like to see Arrow lean into that complication a bit more.
*  *  *
But that was before he passed his hood onto John Diggle. During Oliver’s absence, Curtis, Rene, and Dinah have been asked to step up in new ways, and that has resulted in them feeling more ownership over Team Arrow. It’s not hard to understand why they would be so pissed that Oliver would come back and expect things to be like they were before. Oliver sees a betrayal of himself as a betrayal of Team Arrow because, in his mind, those two things are inseparable. But they’re not the same. Not really. Rene can betray Oliver’s trust without betraying his commitment to Team Arrow. This is a truth Dinah and Curtis probably have a much easier time accepting, whereas Diggle and Felicity, who have been there since the beginning, probably have a perspective closer to Oliver’s.
*  *  *
— From the mediocre pop music to the friend who gets sad-drunk about their own relationship status, Oliver and Felicity’s wedding reception was so real.
*  *  *
— “Don’t do that. Don’t try to dip me in nostalgia.” — Dinah, to Vincent. Guys, Dinah is the V.I.P. of this season. She puts up with nothing, from ex-boyfriends-turned-vigilantes to Team Arrow members spying on her. This woman’s got standards.
*  *  *
— Why did Cayden James take Lance instead of Thea? Seems like a better hostage where Oliver is concerned. Also, Cayden James asking Black Siren to kill the man who looks like her dead father is not a smart strategy.

Edited December 8, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

WTF is wrong with the media reviewers this week?!  C'mon, were they paid to prop up the newbies? Here's another one blaming Oliver (and Felicity and Diggle) for driving away the poor newbies (ugh)...

Arrow Season 6 Episode 9 Review: Irreconcilable Differences
Delia Harrington   December 8, 2017
http://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/arrow/269533/arrow-season-6-episode-9-review-irreconcilable-differences

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Oliver is his own worst enemy (and Felicity doesn't help) in the mid-season finale of Arrow. This episode follows an unusual pattern for one containing a wedding - it's dispensed with early on so that the real business of the episode can get underway, rather than being the moment of celebration and reflection at the end.
*  *  *
I'd like to point out that while Oliver seems to have jumped to the conclusion that the witness is a current member of the team other than his best friend or his wife, there are many more contenders. The witness could theoretically be Roy, the bandages dude, Vince the vigilante, a reanimated Malcolm Merlyn, the Russians, Quentin, Lyla, or anyone named al-Ghul.
*  *  *
Oliver's poor judgment, aided and abetted by Felicity and Diggle respectively, drives Dinah to quit the team and reunite with Vince. Rene is gone, and Curtis's departure seems to hit hardest. That may be because he's been with them the longest, but it could also be due to the level-headed way he notifies them. The original team can pretend they're right with the other two, but there's no justifying how they drove Curtis away.
*  *  *
I doubt this breakup of the team is for long, but it honestly seems like a healthy choice for everyone except Dinah, who is spending time with her murderous ex. Watching Dinah and Oliver go toe to toe is some of the best chemistry this season, since they're so similar in temperament. But it's Diggle who usually spends time with her and therefore truly betrayed her, and that relationship won't be easily repaired.
*  *  *
This episode ends on a tough note. Oliver is without most of his team through his own actions, as Cayden James pointed out. And of course that happens when pretty much every living member of Oliver and the Green Arrow's rogues gallery assembles to creepily watch Oliver in the lair via a hidden camera. It's particularly frustrating to see Oliver regress after spending this season so far showing emotional maturity in a way that is really new for the character. He at least acknowledged that he would have (and has in the past) done the same thing as Rene, and I'm hoping he has the good sense to keep following Thea's advice. If he doesn't, (mini) Team Arrow is going to have a hard time keeping their enemies in check, never mind taking them down. 

Edited December 8, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Sigh - yet another reviewer who seems to gloss over Rene's betrayal and Dinah's deception in order to focus on what Oliver/OTA did wrong...

BETRAYAL, POST-WEDDING BLISS AND TEAM-WIDE IMPLOSIONS IN THE ARROW MIDSEASON FINALE
Trent Moore    December 7, 2017
http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/betrayal-post-wedding-bliss-and-team-wide-implosions-in-the-arrow-midseason-finale

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This isn’t the first time this show has played around with a “shocking betrayal from within the team!” (heck they did it just last season), but this one is handled much more delicately than a shock twist. Rene might be rough around the edges, but he’s loyal to a fault — and it turns out there’s a very good reason he’s signed on to likely be the final domino that could send Oliver to prison for the rest of his life: The FBI could apparently connect him to his alter ego Wild Dog, and if charged as a vigilante himself, Rene would lose any chance at staying reunited with his young daughter. So, faced with choosing between Oliver’s family and his own, he cut a deal. They play the nuance well, and even Oliver comes to realize Rene is making a decision he very well might make if put in the same situation.

But, like most things, it’s not the thing you did that causes the most trouble — it’s all the lies and deceit around it that really do the damage. For Team Arrow, it was Oliver, Felicity and Diggle’s decision to surveil the rest of the team that drives a wedge so deep Curtis and Dinah decide to quit working with Oliver following Rene’s eventual dismissal. As everyone keeps repeating over and over, it takes trust to put on a mask and go fight bad guys side-by-side.

With that trust broken, so is the team. It made for an interesting juxtaposition putting the OG Team Arrow against the new crew, and it was a quick reminder of how much this show has evolved over the years. It resets the board, in a way, and is the perfect catalyst to leave things in disarray for the midseason break. When the show returns in January, there are more than enough broken pieces to start picking up and piecing back together.
*  *  *
*Olicity is one of the most divisive words in fandom these days, but for fans who have been pulling for Oliver and Felicity to finally get together, the opening of “Irreconcilable Differences” was a long time coming. Following their surprise wedding last week, Oliver and Felicity take the news public with a post-wedding reception for friends and family. It’s basically a whole lot of dancing, reveling, and bad drunken speeches. After all the angst, it seems we’ll finally get a real relationship story between Oliver and Felicity. Here’s hoping marriage suits them.
*  *  *
*It didn’t get much play, but we’re totally going to see a love triangle between Lance, Mama Smoak and Papa Smoak, right?
*  *  *
*As fun as the Mission Impossible-style ARGUS heist may have been, the only thing I could think about was how pissed Lyla is going to be when she gets back and finds out. Seriously, Diggle is in the doghouse, right?

*Maybe Black Siren has a heart, after all? Evil Laurel has a heart to heart with Lance, and when pressed into possibly killing him, decides to cut him loose to let him escape, instead. If Dinah really is off the team, could Evil Laurel start the slow transition into becoming the new Black Canary?

Edited December 8, 2017 by tv echo

[tangerine95]

I feel like reviewers are so used to Oliver being blamed for stuff and his trust issues being a problem that even when he's not wrong they're going with it's his fault lol

I don't get the sense the show tried to make Oliver the one in the wrong.I think they want the everyone did something wrong but had a sympathetic reason kind of thing.

[tv echo]

Reading this review was a welcome relief...

‘Arrow’ 6×09 Review: ‘Irreconcilable Differences’
December 8, 2017 by ALYSSA BARBIERI
http://fangirlish.com/arrow-6x09-review-irreconcilable-differences/

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As far as midseason finales go, Arrow’s was easily the least unnerving of the core four Arrowverse shows. In fact, you could say it was damn near enjoyable. Twelve glorious minutes of Oliver and Felicity’s wedding celebration? Oh, most definitely enjoyable
*  *  *
If the worst thing to happen in “Irreconcilable Differences” was that Team Arrow disbanded into OTA and Newbies, then things aren’t actually that bad.

Am I supposed to feel nervous? Uneasy because Dinah, Curtis, and Rene left the team? Because I don’t. That stems in my faith for Original Team Arrow. Arrow has severely underestimated my faith in the team that started it all. A team that hasn’t betrayed each other. A team that has proven to be stronger when they work together in tandem. A team that is family.
*  *  *
Arrow introducing this OTA vs. Newbies conflict was actually quite interesting. I’m curious to see how they intend to continue this split while also dealing with Samanda Watson’s crusade against Oliver and the team.
*  *  *
In last week’s crossover, we saw Oliver and Felicity get married, alongside their friends Barry and Iris, by their best friend and brother, John Diggle. But Arrow didn’t choose to glide over their wedding like The Flash did. Arrow devoted its first 12 minutes — 12 glorious minutes — to celebrating true love in the form of Olicity. It was something that fans have been waiting for and something we’ve definitely deserved about six years.

Between seeing Olicity and OTA centerstage, it felt like the good ol’ days. The days where Team Arrow was a well-oiled, three-man/woman machine taking on the scum of the city and doing it with style. This midseason finale, surprisingly, had a not-so-cliffhangery-or-heartbreaking ending. Oliver wasn’t arrested, which I was expecting. No one was left for apparent death. No one rode in a limo (seriously, ban limos from midseason finales). No one was playing “The Little Drummer Boy” in the background with the backdrop of happiness disguised as an eventual nightmare.
*  *  *
Oliver and Felicity are proof why you don’t try to force things, like couples that don’t work on screen (ahem, Lauriver.) The very nature of Olicity’s dynamic was the very honest and organic nature of their relationship from the very beginning. Early on in season 1, I didn’t know that I hipped them as much as all I knew was that I needed to see more of them together. I didn’t care how. I just wanted to see more interactions because there was always this electricity between the two of them. One that was undeniable and one that carried their relationship through a six-year journey that has brought them to marriage.

It allowed these writers to really develop the foundation of their relationship — the trust, the friendship, the respect, the love — before transitioning to the next, obvious step. Stephen Amell and Emily Bett Rickards pretty much guaranteed, with their electric chemistry, that Olicity was going to be endgame.
*  *  *
You can’t fake that kind of chemistry. That’s magic. That’s lightning in a bottle that you always hope to capture, but most of the time never do.
*  *  *
Rene came clean that he’d made a deal with Watson — that he would get to see his daughter and that he wouldn’t be outted as Wild Dog. He tried to justify himself by saying that Watson said she was going to arrest Oliver anyway, and that he was doing it for his daughter. But betraying a teammate — someone you called a friend not some few hours ago — is a tough thing to swallow. And the worst part is that he did it with only his selfish intentions in mind.

Though I have to admit that I was incredible proud of Oliver for admitting that he’d done the same thing when it came to William. He’d kept a secret. He’d betrayed trust. But he didn’t sell out someone on his own team like Rene did. That’s a complete loss of trust that would take time — if ever — to develop again.

But trust goes both ways. Not only do Oliver, Diggle, and Felicity need to trust their team, but the other members need to be able to trust them. That’s huge when you’re a part of a team where you’re literally putting your life on the line every night — with your life in other people’s hands. And, while I love them more than words, OTA did betray the newbie’s trust when they spied on them. Two wrongs don’t make a right, after all.
*  *  *
Rene hasn’t been that character. He has two modes: likeable and intolerable. You know, kind of like in this episode where he was raving about Oliver, Felicity, and true love only to later betray Oliver and the team.
*  *  *
All I want is for Rene to be a well-balanced character. I don’t like not liking him. Especially because I love Rick Gonzalez. But Arrow needs to be careful when writing his character. Yes, he’s a rebel. Yes, he doesn’t play by the rules. But you have to make sure you’re not alienating that character with your audience. He is, after all, one of your heroes on the show.
*  *  *
If there’s one theme that Arrow has preached from the start, it’s that anyone is capable of redemption. So long as they want it. And from the looks of this midseason finale, it appears as if Black Siren might be headed down that road to redemption — courtesy of Quentin Lance.
*  *  *
Just in case you didn’t get the memo that Black Siren is headed down that road to redemption, Arrow wrote the letters in flashing neon lights when she chose to let Quentin go instead of killing him as instructed. Clearly she felt something towards him; feelings that she didn’t understand.
*  *  *
6. Curtis got drunk and ranted about how love doesn’t exist and how marriage is a sham. Yet Oliver and Felicity just shrugged it off because nothing could ruin their happiness — all they care about is being happy with each other, not what others think. The Flash writers could take a page from the Arrow writers’ book.

Edited December 8, 2017 by tv echo

[Featherhat]

23 minutes ago, tv echo said:

WTF is wrong with the media reviewers this week?!  C'mon, were they paid to prop up the newbies? Here's another one blaming Oliver (and Felicity and Diggle) for driving away the poor newbies (ugh)...

Click bait? It's not controversial to go "yeah OTA were mostly in the right the noobs suck!" It's not going to get tons of arguing comments and retweets etc. Plus there may have been nudges by PR people that OTA vs "NTA" is a thing that they really want to get people going with. This arc is going to end with OTA apologising to noobs and everyone's a happy part of the team again, don't you just love 3rdCanary, Mr Whiny and Wild Dong who screwed up their 3rd chances and stormed off in a huff and in Curtis's case with amnesia since he was terrible in the field and still wanted desperately to be in on the action. 

Click bait is most of the reason the professional review sites were all over Felicity's "worse than Nazi's" interruption last week, this week it's "Oliver (and Dig and Felicity) sucks!"

At least most seemed to like the Olicity reception or at least tolerate it. 

 

Quote

The Flash writers could take a page from the Arrow writers’ book.

Hee. They too could have had positive post wedding festivities, but nooo Bridezillas are funnier.

 

Quote

  Just in case you didn’t get the memo that Black Siren is headed down that road to redemption, Arrow wrote the letters in flashing neon lights when she chose to let Quentin go instead of killing him as instructed. Clearly she felt something towards him; feelings that she didn’t understand.
 

No, no, no, no, no. Not unless she's shipped back to E2 and not to LOT or Team Arrow. 

Edited December 8, 2017 by Featherhat

[tv echo]

Arrow, ‘Irreconcilable Differences’: Breach of Trust Swallows Team Arrow Whole
BY CRAIG WACK · DECEMBER 8, 2017
http://oohlo.com/2017/12/08/arrow-irreconcilable-differences-breach-of-trust-swallows-team-arrow-whole/

Quote

Happiness has a shelf life shorter than unrefrigerated milk in the Arrowverse. The smiles and bliss generated by Oliver and Felicity’s wedding reception couldn’t make it to the opening credits before going sour. While Olicity made it through unscathed, just about every other team dynamic shattered into pieces by episode’s end. Here’s everything you need to know about the latest episode of Arrow:
*  *  *
Sex and the Olicity: The extended opening sequence was magical enough that it could event melt the heart of even the most jaded TV critic. Olicity was charming and totally in-love. It was a whirlwind of sweet character moments by others, from the return of Mama Smoak, Rene’s touching, Dinah talking about her “multiple” broken engagements, seeing how adorably pocket-sized Thea is (since William is as tall as she), and Curtis’ awkwardly drunken toast. Of course, that was before Caden James lobbed a trust-shattering grenade in the middle of all.
*  *  *
What about the action:   There were two good, small scale set pieces, that while not epic, were at least well-executed. The first was a Mission Impossible style heist at ARGUS that saw Felicity operating from a garbage can. Second, was the widget exchange/rescue attempt/mission of proof at the end. It’s a solid fight scene, despite the fact that James’ henchmen were sort of working a post-apocalyptic ninja kind of look....
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Last impressions: Seeing Oliver act distrustful and paranoid is as big of a tradition on Arrow as making a champagne toast on New Year’s, and no amount of Thea talks on empathy are going to keep Ollie from being Ollie. It was difficult not to roll your eyes a little and think, “Here we go again” as it all unfolded. The saving grace may be the fact that James’ little cabal has Ollie’s mental playbook, and they are making all the right calls. It’s a little better knowing an outside force is preying on Oliver’s weaknesses, rather than that he’s simply self-destructing for brooding and/or plot reasons. On the plus side, the episode was an emotional roller-coaster, and the action was solid. Seeing as how tradition dictates the mid-season end with a cliffhanger, a team breakup (however temporary) is a better option than an unnecessary character death, or an attack on finally functional Olicity relationship.

Edited December 8, 2017 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

I'm kind of surprised at how much anti-Oliver stuff I've seen. I mean, yes he's been an idiot in the past a whole lot! But some of these people are acting like he just blew up at Rene for gossiping about him instead of, you know, BEING WILLING TO TESTIFY TO PUT HIM IN JAIL FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE. It's a pretty reasonable thing to get upset over, especially when he did it to get his daughter back - the very thing Oliver was previously trying to help him do!

[Midnight Lullaby]

I’d like to ask all those people if they would trust WD and Dinah and why because from where I stand they did nothing to inspire trust. And WD and Oliver are in the exact same position..they both would go to jail for their own crimes, as WD and as the GA, and they wouldn’t be able to be with their kids ever again. It’s not like Oliver is the criminal here and poor, innocent Renè would be punished instead of him unless he testifies. He’d be punished for his own crimes but he’d rather let Oliver take the fall for the both of them. I’d be even more pissed if I was Oliver, especially because I can’t see Oliver doing that if the role we’re reversed.