The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[paulvdb]

6 hours ago, statsgirl said:

( I disagree about Alex/Maggie which I thought was badly written, and about Mon El/Kara because she turned into someone who is all about her man.)

I actually mostly liked Alex/Maggie but I agree about Mon El/Kara. I would add Barry/Patty to the couples that should not be on a list of best couples.

[BkWurm1]

I disagree that they are writing Oliver and Felicity's relationship that much different than it was in season four before the BMD, lol.  

[tv echo]

9 hours ago, statsgirl said:

The Top 5 (and 2 Worst) CW Superhero Romances  "Crisis on Earth-X" crossover event highlights The CW superheroes' romantic couplings.

by Erik Amaya | November 28, 2017  Rotten Tomatoes

There's a poll at the end of that article where you can vote for your favorite superhero couple. I voted for Oliver & Felicity (currently in 2nd place).

[tv echo]

Crisis On Earth-X Is the Best Arrowverse Crossover Yet Because Of Its Heart, Not Its Heroics 
Chris King  November 29, 2017
http://www.tvovermind.com/the-cw/arrow/crisis-on-earth-x-best-arrowverse-crossover-heart-heroics

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However, despite all the incredible action and intense fight sequences that were on display throughout the two-night event, what made “Crisis On Earth-X” work so well and, in my opinion, stand as the best DCTV crossover yet is that it wore its heart on its sleeve and spent just as much time (if not more time) with its characters out of their superhero suits as it did with them in them. These four episodes focused more on the richly developed relationships between these individuals, connections we’ve seen grow and evolve over the years. “Crisis On Earth-X” was all about love, and that’s what made it so satisfying.
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And by “love,” I don’t just mean romantic love, although let’s take a second to talk about that amazing final scene, in which both Barry and Iris and Oliver and Felicity got married with the infallible John Diggle officiating the ceremony. The scene features many sweet and tender moments: Barry speeding to Star City to bring Diggle to the park (and Diggle’s hilarious reaction afterwards); Felicity taking charge and being the one to propose to Oliver this time (Stephen Amell’s acting in this scene is outstanding—Oliver’s response to Felicity’s proposal is absolutely the happiest we have ever seen him in his life); Barry and Iris’s exchange of vows (I really love her story about him joining her on stage during her dance recital); and Diggle telling Oliver and Felicity that he’s been trying to keep them together for the past six years (so true by the way—John Diggle has always been and will always be Oliver and Felicity’s greatest supporter. Sorry, Curtis).

But it’s Oliver’s words to Felicity, his non-vow vows, that really sum up what true love is, when he tells her “You’re the best part of me…I’m a better human being just because I’ve loved you.” Those words have always been reflected in Oliver and Felicity’s relationship, their journey over these five-plus years. They’ve endured their ups and downs; however, when both of them have been at their lowest, they have been able to raise each other up, make each other not only believe in hope and love and happiness but believe enough in themselves so that they know they deserve to experience and enjoy those feelings.

This is especially true for Oliver, a man who returned from Lian Yu a hollow and shattered shell until he met John Diggle and Felicity Smoak, who helped him not piece together who he used to be but forge a new identity, transform into a better man who would not only be a hero to the faceless citizens of his city but an inspiration to the most important people in his life. Oliver’s words to Felicity, this one simple sentence, is a culmination of this path he’s been on since he returned home to Star City, this path he’s been on since he first met the IT girl with the red pen—a path of improvement, a path of rediscovery, a path of light. Their marriage solidifies his transformation; Oliver is no longer trying to be a new man anymore—he has fully become one, thanks to the strength, encouragement, and guidance of Felicity Smoak. And with Oliver by her side, Felicity has found new opportunities, such as fighting crime with Team Arrow and creating her own company with Curtis, but more than that, she’s found genuine, non-compromised connection and happiness, something she could have never expected to find being stuck behind a desk at Queen Consolidated for years. Just like Felicity and her red pen changed Oliver’s life, his walking into her department that day changed hers.
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There were also other smaller but still very powerful scenes reflecting different types of love as well. Alex and Sara connected over their dedication to their sisters, which added more depth to the fun fling the two characters had during “Part 1.” Kara and Felicity showed that they were both willing to sacrifice their lives to protect each other, despite the fact that they had only met once before Barry and Iris’s wedding. And lastly, Earth-X Felicity found herself imprisoned and nearly executed after risking her life to help other innocent victims; this short scene, along with Felicity mentioning that her grandparents were Holocaust survivors, didn’t fully assuage my concerns about Nazis serving as the crossover’s villains but did prove to me that the DCTV writers put a little more thought and care into the storyline than I initially believed.

,,, As I said in my review of “Part 2” on Monday night, these superhero series are at their very best when they examine these comic-book characters not as larger-than-life figures but as real, flawed individuals, who experience fear, hope, and, of course, love. That’s where the best superhero stories come from, and I hope the DCTV creative team keeps that in mind for the rest of the season for each of these four shows and for when all these awesome heroes meet up again in next fall’s crossover.

Edited November 30, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

A.V. Club reviewers gave Flash 408 a B+ and LoT 308 an A...

The Flash gets lost in an overstuffed chapter of an entertaining crossover event
Scott Von Doviak  November 28, 2017
https://www.avclub.com/the-flash-gets-lost-in-an-overstuffed-chapter-of-an-ent-1820801216

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If you don’t follow the other CW superhero shows regularly, large chunks of “Crisis On Earth-X, Part 3" might feel like stray issues of comics you never bother to read. It certainly doesn’t feel like an episode of The Flash, given that Barry Allen is barely a supporting character throughout most of the hour. In every way, it’s a middle chapter that’s barely comprehensible on its own (and I’m not the first to wonder how future viewers on Netflix will be able to navigate this web), featuring numerous characters that a casual Flash viewer won’t recognize. Judging it in a vacuum, the episode is a total mess.
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That would be the wedding of Barry Allen and Iris West, and technically it didn’t happen on Supergirl either, but only because super-powered Nazis from another world crashed the party. Still, it is more than a little strange that all the build-up to the “I do” moment that never came unfolded on a different show. Given that “Crisis” is built like a four-hour miniseries, would it have been so hard to swap out the series titles so that “Part One” played out on The Flash on a special night? After all, Arrow was moved to Monday night to accommodate this event, so it wouldn’t have been unprecedented. Instead, The Flash ends up getting saddled with the grimmest, least fun chapter of this saga, and clearly that should have been Arrow’s job.
*  *  *
Evaluating the episode on its own may be my job, but it feels like a mistake in this case. On the whole, I’ve found “Crisis On Earth-X” to be fantastically entertaining (although as of this writing I have yet to see the concluding chapter), and having seen Justice League last week, it makes for an inevitably favorable comparison. The Big Three may be absent, but “Crisis” is jam-packed with moments big and small to delight the inner DC fan. Even a lesser installment like this one features the spectacle of the Flash and the Ray battling the Red Tornado, as well as the appealing non-superpowered Nazi-fighting team of Iris and Felicity. For the most part, I’ve felt like a kid coming home with a fresh stack of comics, and I can think of no higher praise than that.

Crisis On Earth-X ends with big twists and a massive superhero showdown
Oliver Sava   November 28, 2017
https://www.avclub.com/crisis-on-earth-x-ends-with-big-twists-and-a-massive-su-1820824798

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No piece of live-action superhero media has captured the feeling of a comic-book crossover event like Crisis On Earth-X. With a huge cast of characters, a major death, and a final scene taking big heroes in bold new directions, Crisis delivers the thrills, the twists, and the inspiration that should come from a superhero story with this massive scope. Last year’s “Heroes Vs. Aliens” was a fun test run, but Crisis goes bigger in every respect, justifying its existence as a separate entity from the shows it brings together. Yes, the network split the story into four chapters for each of the Arrowverse series, but giving Crisis its own title card indicated that it was being approached like its own miniseries, weaving the individual shows together into a sprawling superhero narrative.

I lost count of how many times I said “this is so much better than Justice League” while watching Crisis, which has compelling character conflicts, exciting action sequences, and villains driven by a dangerous ideology that has become especially relevant over the past year. The Nazi supervillains of Earth-X want to expand their control and create an Aryan multiverse, and Crisis is a clear indictment of the xenophobic, intolerant views that have spread throughout the U.S. Giving Earth-X Oliver and Kara a romantic relationship adds some extra depth to the villains’ plot, and it’s always a good idea to root character motivations in love, even when the characters are defined by their extreme hate.
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This entire event started with a wedding, and the final scene of Crisis wraps up that plot line as Diggle marries Barry and Iris. But there’s one last twist! Felicity also wants to get married, like right now, and she and Oliver end up getting hitched in a surprise double wedding! As rude as it is for Felicity to hijack this big moment for Barry and Iris, it’s still a major step up from having your wedding interrupted by Nazis, and Crisis solidified the Felicity/Iris friendship so that this final double wedding is a joyous occasion for everyone involved. The Nazis are defeated and love perseveres, ending this crisis on an uplifting note that signals some significant changes for the Arrowverse.
*  *  *    
-I love how the group shots in this episode look like comic-book images. All the heroes standing together in the Waverider reminds me of Alex Ross’ Kingdom Come covers, and even though it’s totally impractical to strut into battle in a long straight line, it does make them look really cool.

-Caity Lotz needs a big-screen action vehicle like Atomic Blonde that would show off her fighting prowess. I just want to see her put in increasingly complicated action scenes for two hours.

Edited November 30, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

THE FLASH: "CRISIS ON EARTH-X, PART 3" REVIEW
JESSE SCHEEDEN  28 NOV 2017
http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/11/29/the-flash-crisis-on-earth-x-part-3-review

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This episode certainly turned the whole crossover around. After a slow start in "Crisis on Earth-X, Part 1" and a fairly underwhelming follow-up in "Part 2," the crossover finally seemed to click in "Part 3." The conflict grew much darker in this episode, but not to the point where it lost sight of the inherent fun of the "Superheroes vs. Nazis" concept.

If anything, "Part 3" makes me wonder if the writers should have brought our heroes into Earth-X sooner. That change in scenery definitely feels like the catalyst the crossover had been needing. Right away, "Part 3" established the scope and gravitas that had been lacking as it explored a world where humans are still herded into concentration camps for being gay or Jewish or just deemed generally undesirable by those in power. The true evil of Earth-X and its masters was made fully apparent in the opening moments.
*  *  *
Another reason this episode improved on "Part 2" is that it kept the unnecessary character drama to a minimum. Felicity doesn't exactly have time to dwell on her latest fight with Oliver when she's too busy helping Iris sneak about STAR Labs and free their friends. It was definitely fun seeing the two women play Die Hard for a while, even if you get the sense that this whole ordeal is basically a play for time until the rest of the Legends show up to save the day in "Part 4." That's still one lingering flaw with "Crisis on Earth-X" - the Nazi villains only seem like a credible threat so long as our heroes remained scattered and divided.

DC'S LEGENDS OF TOMORROW: "CRISIS ON EARTH-X, PART 4" REVIEW
JESSE SCHEEDEN  28 NOV 2017
http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/11/29/dcs-legends-of-tomorrow-crisis-on-earth-x-part-4-review

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This crossover turned into quite the emotional rollercoaster. What started as an opportunity for wacky hijinks and Nazi-punching has now morphed into a breeding ground for some of the most depressing and the most uplifting moments in Arrowverse history. I don't know that "Crisis on Earth-X" made the most of the Earth-X setting in the end, but it sure gave us a nonstop stream of great character beats.
*  *  *
These and various other little character moments (the Atom saving Supergirl, Zari donning her costume for the first time, etc.) really made this episode sing. Unfortunately, the final showdown with the villains of Earth-X didn't quite have the epic feel I was hoping for. This crossover fell victim to the exact problem I had been fearing all along in that Dark Arrow, Overgirl and Reverse-Flash simply weren't enough of a threat when pitted against the entirety of Team Flash, Team Arrow, Supergirl and the Legends. The scope and tension of the Earth-X battle in "Part 3" wasn't really there for the big battle in Central City. I kept hoping for some last-minute game-changer or wrinkle to the battle (the debut of Overman, perhaps), but nothing came along to shake things up.
*  *  *
I'm also not thrilled with the way Barry resolved his encounter with Thawne. I certainly didn't expect Barry would kill his old nemesis, but it seems surprising to think that he would let Thawne run free and give him a pass after his involvement in this whole debacle. Why didn't he at least try to subdue Thawne? Isn't there some sort of middle ground between killing an enemy (as Ollie was only to happy to do with the Dark Archer) and letting them run away scot free? Once again, an Arrowverse hero makes a questionable tactical decision, not because it's a logical plot development, but in order to set up a future conflict.
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"Part 4" ended things the only way it could have, giving Barry and Iris a second chance to finally say their vows and become a happily married couple. I wish the writers had let Kara stick around for that moment, but it was handled wonderfully nonetheless. The fact that Felicity and Ollie decided to join in on the fun made it even better. And that scene made great use of Diggle, who seemed doomed to sit out this particular crossover. With two weddings, a funeral and a number of profoundly changed heroes emerging from this crossover, never let it be said that "Crisis on Earth-X" didn't have a tangible impact on the wider Arrowverse. In that sense, at least, it's more successful than last year's "Invasion!".

Edited November 30, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Needless to say,  I don't agree with everything written in this article...

The Best and Worst Moments of the ‘Arrow’-verse Crossover, “Crisis on Earth-X”
BY ALLISON KEENE      NOVEMBER 29, 2017
http://collider.com/crisis-on-earth-x-crossover-review/

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Best: Unexpected Character Pairings
...
The true joy of any Arrow-verse crossover is seeing our favorites from each show interacting with other characters they never see (or have never met). Heatwave’s crush on Killer Frost, the team-up between Alex and Sara (more on that later), and Curtis strategizing with Zari and Amaya were all delightful. Even pairs we’ve seen before (like Felicity and Iris) were a joy. The best moment, though, may have been the one where it’s revealed Oliver and Kara are married on Earth-X. Seeing those two lock lips was a serious moment of cognitive dissonance, and it was amazing. The crossover didn’t hold back, and threw so much into its four hours of storytelling. But seeing our heroes (and villains) mix and match was incredibly fun.
*  *  *
Worst: Felicity’s Kanye Moment
...
Girl, bye. Iris and Barry have been trying to get married for ages now, and actual Nazis prevented their wedding from happening. So just before the two are about to say “I do” thanks to the help of John Diggle, Felicity pulls a “Imma stop you right there,” on them, and makes it all about her relationship with Oliver. Seriously? You guys already got a wedding (grant it, a fake one), and could have another on a future Arrow for all we know. Barry and Iris haven’t gone through one ceremony without an interruption. Not cool!
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Best: The Dopplegangers
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Worst: The Return of Wellsobard
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Best: The Fight Choreography
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Worst: Half-Baked Use of Nazis
...
Nazis have become a shorthand for evil (and yet they have horrendously gained prominence again culturally). The crossover used the Nazis of Earth-X as a way to not have to explain the origin or ultimate evil plan of the Evil Dopplegangers besides “Aryan dominance!”, but it was pretty muddled. Why was the aniti-Flash Thawne there and helping them when their main goal was just to capture Supergirl to get her heart for Overgirl? The use of a concentration camp was also shaky stuff. Other than The Ray, the heroes pretty much ignored the other prisoners, and didn’t seem to think it was important to free them. Yes, they killed Dark Arrow and Overgirl imploded, but there were plenty of people still on Earth-X to continue that evil regime.

Also, as great as it was to have Felicity talk about her grandparents surviving the Holocaust, and the impact of seeing  Earth-X Felicity as a quiet resistance fighter in the camp, there wasn’t any mention of Stein being Jewish, or the fact that the Nazis did actually succeed in killing him. Ultimately, just a lot of missed opportunities with this particular Earth-X villainy.
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Best: Stein and Jax
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Worst: The Death of Stein
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Neutral: The CG
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Best: Alex and Sara’s One Night Stand
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Best: “Leo” and The Ray
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Worst: Barry Letting Thawne Go
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Best: The Return of Tommy Merlyn

Edited November 30, 2017 by tv echo

[bijoux]

2 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Needless to say,  I don't agree with everything written in this article...

The Best and Worst Moments of the ‘Arrow’-verse Crossover, “Crisis on Earth-X”
BY ALLISON KEENE      NOVEMBER 29, 2017
http://collider.com/crisis-on-earth-x-crossover-review/

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Worst: Felicity’s Kanye Moment
...
Girl, bye. Iris and Barry have been trying to get married for ages now, and actual Nazis prevented their wedding from happening. So just before the two are about to say “I do” thanks to the help of John Diggle, Felicity pulls a “Imma stop you right there,” on them, and makes it all about her relationship with Oliver. Seriously? You guys already got a wedding (grant it, a fake one), and could have another on a future Arrow for all we know. Barry and Iris haven’t gone through one ceremony without an interruption. Not cool!
*  *  *

So did Barry and Iris by that logic. 

[tv echo]

[apinknightmare]

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Worst: Felicity’s Kanye Moment
...
Girl, bye. Iris and Barry have been trying to get married for ages now, and actual Nazis prevented their wedding from happening. So just before the two are about to say “I do” thanks to the help of John Diggle, Felicity pulls a “Imma stop you right there,” on them, and makes it all about her relationship with Oliver. Seriously? You guys already got a wedding (grant it, a fake one), and could have another on a future Arrow for all we know. Barry and Iris haven’t gone through one ceremony without an interruption. Not cool!

Does Felicity even know that Iris tried to marry Barry outside of their planned ceremony? Do you think she called Felicity up and said, "Hey girl, I got the wedding bug today so I sat through a stranger's funeral in a wedding dress and could barely wait until the pallbearers walked the dead body down the aisle before I asked the priest if he could perform the ceremony?! I even crawled on the altar and turned the dead guy's picture around before it started! The priest nearly died of an allergic reaction before we could say 'I do' tho. I told him to walk it off!"

[tv echo]

Legends Of Tomorrow: Season 3, Episode 8- Crisis on Earth-X, Part 4
Starman   November 29, 2017
http://www.mygeekygeekyways.com/2017/11/legends-of-tomorrow-season-3-episode-8.html

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Influences
General alternate reality tropes involving The Axis Powers winning World War II, Justice League of America #107 (Vol. 1) (basic plot, idea of Earth-X), The Flash #165 (Vol. 1) (Barry Allen's wedding is disrupted by a super-villain attack), Flashpoint (concept of Citizen Cold - the heroic Captain Cold), Final Crisis (concept of Overgirl - the Nazi Supergirl) the movie The Terminator (appearance of Earth-X Metallo, Black Canary name-drops it), All-Star Superman (a Kryptonian dying because of absorbing too much solar energy) and the comics of Len Wein.

Goofs
Given that some scientists theorize that the energy released by a star going supernova less than 25 light years from Earth could cause catastrophic changes to Earth's atmosphere, the consequences of a supernova forming on Earth would probably be far greater than just the destruction of The American Midwest.

Barry just letting Thawne go is just plain lame.

Performances
Victor Garber gives a fantastic final performance as Martin Stein.

Artistry
The scene as most of Team Flash, Team Arrow and The Legends fight Metallo is everything The DCTVU can be at its best - comic book action, brought to life with amazing effects work and fight choreography.

The silent montage of the various heroes reacting to Stein's death is also everything The DCTVU can be at its best - sentimental and hopeful, indulging in all our best angels. It is also artfully shot, with haunting music

Miraculously, the fifth-segment fight-scene gives everyone on all four series a chance to shine. It is well-blocked, well-acted and well-shot.

Edited November 30, 2017 by tv echo

[bijoux]

Wait, did Barry and Iris already tried to get married? And also after a funeral? I didn’t really mind any of this happening after Stein’s funeral, but it’s an odd habit.

[tv echo]

SURPRISES, AND A SURPRISE DEATH, IN NIGHT 2 OF THE CW'S CRISIS ON EARTH-X
Trent Moore  November 29, 2017
http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/surprises-and-a-surprise-death-in-night-2-of-the-cws-crisis-on-earth-x

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It has its flaws, but “Crisis on Earth-X” stands as a testament for how to get superheroes right. It’s easy to make comparisons with Justice League struggling at the box office, but there’s no comparison required. This is the Justice League fans deserve (in a philosophical sense, not so much in a movie-sense), and it’s astounding what The CW managed to pull off with a TV-sized budget. The scale was epic, the storytelling was tight, and — most importantly — they got the characters right almost all the way around. There were too many fun mash-up moments to count, and it struck the same type of tone that has allowed Marvel Studios to dominate the box office for the past decade.
*  *  *
If not “Crisis on Earth-X,” you easily could’ve subtitled this event "Two Weddings and a Funeral" — because it brought the surprises by the truckload in that final hour. Arguably the biggest surprise was the wedding of Oliver and Felicity, who decided to join Barry and Iris during an impromptu ceremony once all the evil Nazis were dispatched. Arrow has spent the better  part of its existence hemming and hawing over Oliver and Felicity’s relationship.

To actually have them get married with no notice — during a crossover event that wasn’t even a proper episode of Arrow, no less — was jaw-dropping. In a good way. They’ve beat around this bush for so long, a surprise wedding was the perfect way to address it head on in a way that doesn’t require wasting a whole ‘nother season planning a wedding, again. It cements Olicity (love it or hate it), and it seems the show is finally ready to move forward with a more healthy relationship at its core, with all the will they/won’t they drama put to rest. Hey, it only took six seasons, right?
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Then they killed Stein. The death came in a hail of Nazi gunfire, as Stein heroically sacrifices himself to open a gateway home for the show’s central heroes to escape the hellish Earth-X universe. He absolutely died a hero, and as he tells Jax with his dying breath, he’s at peace with the adventures he’s had and the life he lived. Yet the death still felt cheap. There’s a subtle difference in surprise for the story’s sake, and surprise for surprise’s sake. This felt closer to the second than the first.

Why go to the trouble of introducing Stein’s daughter, and then his grandchild, only to snuff him out in the eleventh hour? It felt like the event needed a big death to solidify its “bigness,” and that came at the expense of Stein — a character who already had one foot out the door. But it robbed a good man of a rare happy ending, even though he’d earned it. Yes, life isn’t fair and there’s a lesson to learn from that, but the episode didn’t seem all that interested in teaching it. Instead, it felt like needless tragedy at best. And callousness at worst.
*  *  *
*The fan service and easter egg moments came fast and furious, and almost all of them worked. We got Mister Terrific and Cisco on a spaceship, and Cisco even got a chance to fly it. We got the Flash and the Ray slugging it out with Red Tornado. We got Quentin Lance as an evil Nazi. We got Thawne rolling around S.T.A.R. Labs in a wheelchair. We got an alt-universe version of Leonard Snart, Citizen Cold, who is the most perfectly goody-two-shoes hero you’ll ever meet. Felicity and Iris do their best Die Hard impression. We get the rebel base on Earth-X, which is in a repurposed Arrow Cave. We get a man-of-steel joke from Nate. We get Wynn as a hardened, Earth-X general. We get more Sara and Alex ‘shipping goodness. We get a reference to some future battle between Superman and the Reverse-Flash (perhaps a future crossover will get the real Man of Steel in on the action?). We get a reunion between Snart and Rory (no ghosts required). We get another classic Flash vs. Reverse Flash face-off. We get the Green Arrow killing the Nazi Arrow. With an arrow, of course. And a whole lot more.

Edited November 30, 2017 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, bijoux said:

Wait, did Barry and Iris already tried to get married? And also after a funeral? I didn’t really mind any of this happening after Stein’s funeral, but it’s an odd habit.

Yes:

 

It was played for laughs and I personally thought it was cute just because she's so desperate here - which is why I understand that people sometimes do rude stuff in their desperation to get married! But my my we have some very short memories, LOL.

[tv echo]

Crisis on Earth X, Parts 1 & 2: Crossover Delivers on Promise of Top-Notch Superhero Action
BY CRAIG WACK · NOVEMBER 28, 2017
http://oohlo.com/2017/11/28/crisis-on-earth-x-parts-1-2-crossover-delivers-on-promise-of-top-notch-superhero-action/

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Last impressions: This is exactly the kind of crossover event fans have been hoping for since the Arrowverse expanded to four shows. It’s free from the trappings of acting as a backdoor pilot, or fitting into a series’ milestone episode. They just jumped into the story, gave us heartfelt character moments and some of the best action sequences ever put on this network.

Crisis on Earth X, Parts 3 & 4: Tears of Sadness, Joy Punctuate Thrilling Conclusion
BY CRAIG WACK · NOVEMBER 29, 2017
http://oohlo.com/2017/11/29/crisis-on-earth-x-parts-3-4-tears-of-sadness-joy-punctuate-thrilling-conclusion/

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The annual CW crossover came to a bittersweet, yet satisfying conclusion. The third part suffered a bit from middle chapter syndrome but it all leads to a thrilling climax, with more than a few tears shed along the way. Here’s everything you need to know about the final parts of Crisis on Earth X:
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Last impressions: While being killed by a classic TV/movie trope is not the way we wanted to see Victor Garber’s character leave the Arrowverse, it provided the team with a rallying point to make their final push against the Nazis. Aside from some slapdash effects here and there, this was excellent execution of classic comic book storytelling — no small feat considering the constraints of time and budget that go along with making TV. The group was able to band together to confront a worldwide threat, but at the same time leave room for the kind of small individual character moments that make these shows so appealing. We’re not sure how they will top this crossover next year, but here’s hoping they try.

 

Edited November 30, 2017 by tv echo

[bijoux]

8 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Yes:

 

It was played for laughs and I personally thought it was cute just because she's so desperate here - which is why I understand that people sometimes do rude stuff in their desperation to get married! But my my we have some very short memories, LOL.

Considering how their planned wedding went, I guess she had the right idea. Also, she brought Barry a clip on. A clip on! ?

[tv echo]

How The Earth-X Crossover Changes Each of The Arrow-verse Shows
BY LAURA HURLEY   November 29, 2017
https://www.cinemablend.com/television/1731440/how-the-earth-x-crossover-changes-each-of-the-arrow-verse-shows

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Arrow
Oliver and Felicity tied the knot. In a surprise twist, Oliver and Felicity got married as well as Barry and Iris in "Crisis On Earth-X." Not only will Felicity presumably move in with Oliver and William, but she also can't be forced to testify against Oliver in Samanda Watson's case against him. Double win!

Earth-X Oliver is dead. Nobody on Arrow needs to worry that Oliver's evil Nazi doppelganger will be back in the future, which is a very good thing considering how often Oliver's nemeses seem to come back to haunt him.

The Green Arrow was BACK. Oliver was at his very best as a hero in "Crisis On Earth-X." He was smart, strategic, and totally badass as the leader of all the good guys. He may now be back in peak Green Arrow mode on Arrow, even if he only begrudgingly donned the hood again.

Vigilantes saved the world from Nazis. The scale of the Nazi invasion was so huge that the battle must have gained national attention. Perhaps the fact that a group of vigilantes just staved off a Nazi invasion from another world will lessen the heat on Team Arrow from the currently anti-vigilante public in Star City

Also from Laura Hurley...

Edited November 30, 2017 by tv echo

[Lady Calypso]

11 hours ago, statsgirl said:

And the Worst …

2. Tommy Merlyn and Laurel Lance

I gotta disagree about this. I thought this was Laurel's best romance on the show. I absolutely adored them together, and thought it worked in the first season. I may not have liked it for a long-term romance, but I never got the chance to find out. There are also way worse pairings in the Arrowverse. Not even just the Hawks, either.

[Balaclava]

17 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Yes:

 

It was played for laughs and I personally thought it was cute just because she's so desperate here - which is why I understand that people sometimes do rude stuff in their desperation to get married! But my my we have some very short memories, LOL.

I found that moment pretty cute and funny but you mean to tell me there's a precedent for "terrible impromptu wedding etiquette" in the Arrowverse? ?

[catrox14]

8 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I gotta disagree about this. I thought this was Laurel's best romance on the show. I absolutely adored them together, and thought it worked in the first season. I may not have liked it for a long-term romance, but I never got the chance to find out. There are also way worse pairings in the Arrowverse. Not even just the Hawks, either.

Tommy made Laurel tolerable for this viewer. I hated Laurel literally as of the pilot. She was a disaster for me. But once they put her with Tommy she became a lot less aggravating of a character. I mean I still didn't like her, but I also didn't want to push her out the window either. KC and CD didn't have great chemistry but at least it wasn't automatic constant NOPE face like with Stephen LOL

[Lady Calypso]

3 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Tommy made Laurel tolerable for this viewer. I hated Laurel literally as of the pilot. She was a disaster for me. But once they put her with Tommy she became a lot less aggravating of a character. I mean I still didn't like her, but I also didn't want to push her out the window either. KC and CD didn't have great chemistry but at least it wasn't automatic constant NOPE face like with Stephen LOL

Agreed completely. Also:

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Agreed completely. Also:

OMG I forgot about that. Perfect gif usage is perfect.

ETA: If I was that interviewer, I would have backed slowly away from him because he totally went Oliver Queen "I am going to hurt you now" face LOLOLOL

[lemotomato]

12 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Agreed completely. Also:

I found out recently that there's a followup question to that gif:

[leopardprint]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

Best: The Dopplegangers
*  *  *
Worst: The Return of Wellsobard
*  *  *
Best: The Fight Choreography
*  *  *
Worst: Half-Baked Use of Nazis
...
Nazis have become a shorthand for evil (and yet they have horrendously gained prominence again culturally). The crossover used the Nazis of Earth-X as a way to not have to explain the origin or ultimate evil plan of the Evil Dopplegangers besides “Aryan dominance!”, but it was pretty muddled. Why was the aniti-Flash Thawne there and helping them when their main goal was just to capture Supergirl to get her heart for Overgirl? The use of a concentration camp was also shaky stuff. Other than The Ray, the heroes pretty much ignored the other prisoners, and didn’t seem to think it was important to free them. Yes, they killed Dark Arrow and Overgirl imploded, but there were plenty of people still on Earth-X to continue that evil regime.

Also, as great as it was to have Felicity talk about her grandparents surviving the Holocaust, and the impact of seeing  Earth-X Felicity as a quiet resistance fighter in the camp, there wasn’t any mention of Stein being Jewish, or the fact that the Nazis did actually succeed in killing him. Ultimately, just a lot of missed opportunities with this particular Earth-X villainy.

I agree with the use of Nazis as entirely gratuitous but it doesn't make sense to say the Dopplegangers are a "best" since their defining differentiating characteristic was being Nazis.

Also yes to the total lack of acknowledgement of Stein as modern Jewish man being placed in a concentration camp.   

[SmallScreenDiva]

1 hour ago, apinknightmare said:

Yes:

 

It was played for laughs and I personally thought it was cute just because she's so desperate here - which is why I understand that people sometimes do rude stuff in their desperation to get married! But my my we have some very short memories, LOL.

That was awesome! I totally cracked up when she climbed the railing to take the dead guy's picture away. The Flash should have Candice do more of this comedic stuff because this girl is good! Also, this might be the first time I've seen an iota of chemistry between Iris and Barry. They just work so well in this scene together. 

49 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Agreed completely. Also:

If you ever need to see the visual of the phrase "his eyes went dead" LMAO!

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

Arrow
Oliver and Felicity tied the knot. In a surprise twist, Oliver and Felicity got married as well as Barry and Iris in "Crisis On Earth-X." Not only will Felicity presumably move in with Oliver and William, but she also can't be forced to testify against Oliver in Samanda Watson's case against him. Double win!

What? Being unable to testify against your spouse only covers events that happened while you were married, right? I know we have lawyers on this forum ... help! OTOH, this is TV and worse, this is Arrow so the legal stuff will always be weird (and wrong).

39 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I found out recently that there's a followup question to that gif:

Are you serious?!?! LMAO! This is not a fake? I don't remember that whole interview, TBH. Just the part where his eyes went "NOPE!"

[tv echo]

Grading 'Crisis on Earth-X': Did CW Blow It With DC Crossover Conclusion?
By TooFab Staff | November 28, 2017 6:58 PM
http://toofab.com/2017/11/28/grading-crisis-on-earth-x-did-cw-blow-it-with-dc-crossover-conclusion/

Quote

We finally understood why they spent so long Monday night on the emotional drama between the two halves of Firestorm, as well as the Olicity proposal nonsense. It was all part of the plan, and so we'll forgive them just a little bit. Actually, no we won't, because it distracted from the main story and made this four-parter feel a little bloated in the middle.
*  *  *
LAME: MINI BOSS BATTLE
First of all, we never really got a good explanation as to why six of our heroes were randomly shunted off to Earth-X in the first place. It was a pretty convenient way to give us some back-story about that world, and introduce us to a few more doppelgangers, including an unexpectedly dark Winn (Jeremy Jordan) and the Earth-X hero The Ray (Russell Tovey). But mostly it was used for padding to extend the story by forcing us to watch these six battle their way home, including a "mini boss battle" between The Flash (Grant Gustin), The Ray and Red Tornado. Unfortunately, it seems like they blew their budget on the opening and closing battles, because the CGI was severely lacking, and even the overall look of the battle was muddled at best. Mostly, it just felt unnecessarily long ... just like this whole field trip.
*  *  *
SUPER: DOUBLE NUPTIALS
Yes, it was cheesy, but it also offered a genuine moment of surprise. At the end of the event, Barry and Iris (Candice Patton) picked up where we started by getting married. Bonus points for the fun of snatching Diggle (David Ramsey) out of nowhere to perform it. Their vows were touching, but then we got a double whammy when Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards) proposed to Oliver and it became a surprise impromptu double wedding. We'll admit it, we got a little teary.
*  *  *
"Get out of here!" After defeating Thawne (Tom Cavanagh), Flash can't kill him. That's cool, noble even, but why let him go? Dude is straight evil, like, murdering people and stuff, and you just let him walk away?
*  *  *
The biggest "huh?" is why go to Earth 1 at all if nabbing Kara was the goal? She's not from that Earth. She was only there for the wedding, which was chock full of superheroes. Did the Nazis just want the challenge? Or were they that afraid of Superman from Supergirl's world?

Edited November 30, 2017 by tv echo

[Midnight Lullaby]

5 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

 

What? Being unable to testify against your spouse only covers events that happened while you were married, right? I know we have lawyers on this forum ... help! OTOH, this is TV and worse, this is Arrow so the legal stuff will always be weird (and wrong).

 

Yes you are right. But you are also right that Arrow legal stuff is messy 100% of the times, lol

[tv echo]

EW reviewers gave Flash 408 a B+ and LoT 308 a B-...

The Flash recap: 'Crisis on Earth-X, Part 3'
Chancellor Agard   November 28, 2017 
http://ew.com/recap/the-flash-season-4-episode-8/

Quote

Wilkommen and bienvenue to night two of “Crisis on Earth-X.” As we enter the third act of this year’s uber-crossover, it’s clear that this is Berlanti & Co.’s most ambitious outing yet. And I’m sure I said that last year during “Invasion,” which actually took some of our heroes to space. “Part 3” divides its time between Earth-1 and a flash sideways to a Man in the High Castle world where we meet some exciting new characters. Somehow, The Flash travels to this Nazi-occupied Earth without becoming incredibly didactic or obvious with its social commentary.
*  *  *
Meanwhile back on Earth-1, Team Arrow, Cisco, Harry, and Caitlin are all trapped in the pipeline, while Felicity and Iris crawl through the ventilation system to do some recon on their enemies, who have Supergirl strapped to a gurney in the Cortex, and figure a way out. The women embrace their inner badasses and take out the soldiers guarding the pipeline, but unfortunately, the door is broken and they can’t open it. Now their only hope of taking S.T.A.R. Labs is freeing Supergirl from that red sunlight....
*  *  *
While Eobard waits for Kara’s cells to become adequately saturated with red sun radiation for the surgery, Kara gets some one-on-one time with her Earth-X doppelganger, who describes herself as “Aryan perfection” in one of the episode’s silliest moments. Their conversation presents Kara, who has been struggling with her humanity in season 3, with a look at who she risks becoming by ignoring her humanity. The show lets this remain subtext; if you’ve been following Supergirl this season, you understand what this encounter means for her character.
*  *  *
As Green Arrow, White Canary, Citizen Cold, Alex, and Firestorm take on the forces guarding the gateway, Flash and The Ray take on the weapon General Schott sent to destroy the facility: Red Tornado. Let’s be honest, the CGI work for the Flash and The Ray vs. Red Tornado sequence isn’t the best, but who cares? You gotta applaud the show for even attempting to pull this sequence off.
*  *  *
All in all, I thought “Part 3” was a strong follow-up to last night’s episodes, and it sets the stage for an epic and emotional finale. The episode’s theme — the strong have a duty to protect and help the weak, not to trample them — and setting were powerful and rather timely given the current state of our country. However, I appreciated the fact that writer Todd Helbing’s script wasn’t overtly didactic in this respect, which was definitely a concern coming into this episode. These shows aren’t known for their subtlety.

Legends of Tomorrow crossover recap: 'Crisis on Earth-X, Part 4'
Shirley Li    November 28, 2017
http://ew.com/recap/legends-of-tomorrow-season-3-episode-8/

Quote

Oh, Victor Garber. We knew you were leaving, we knew Stein was never the leader of the team — only an MVP occasionally — and we knew the effects for Firestorm were costly, but did you have to leave like this? Did Legends have to kill you off, and kill you off not even midway through the finale of a crossover that didn’t even end with your funeral?!
*  *  *
But hey, maybe we’ll get more of that next week, when Sara and the team get a chance to mourn properly for the professor before going on hiatus. This week’s hour was all about delivering a grand finale to the Earth-X crossover, and on that front Legends delivered, even if, just like last year, this episode didn’t feel like a Legends episode much at all. Sure, we had the Waverider and everyone onboard it, but the focus remained on the crown jewels of the CW superheroes universe: Green Arrow, The Flash, and their other halves.
*  *  *
When they get back to S.T.A.R. Labs, though, everything’s falling apart. Felicity and Iris — a wonderful pairing so far in the crossover, by the way — have tried their best to save Kara, but now Supergirl is about to go under the knife once and for all. Eobard can’t help being juuust a little more creepy before diving in: He tells her about how much he loves slicing metal through bone, but when he drives his knife toward her heart, something stops him.
*  *  *
After hearing Barry and Iris’ vows, she’s come around to the idea of being married to Oliver after all. Despite the danger and all their ups and downs, she wants to be married to him, and so Diggle gets to marry two super-couples, ending the episode on a high note of love and super-friendship.

It’s cute, and lovely, and certainly a nice way to wrap up a somewhat bloated crossover event. But still: Stein, guys, Stein....

Edited November 30, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Den of Geek reviewers gave Flash 408 a score of 4/5 stars and LoT 308 a score of 5/5 stars...

The Flash Season 4 Episode 8 Review: Crisis on Earth X Part 3
Mike Cecchini    Nov. 29, 2017
http://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/the-flash/269307/the-flash-season-4-episode-8-review-crisis-on-earth-x-part-3

Quote

But we're here now, and with all that out of the way, "Crisis on Earth-X" just completely embraces its lunacy in ways that I don't even think those first two chapters dreamed of. And if it was all just fist-pumping Nazi ass-kicking and "boy aren't Nazis just the fucking dumbest bunch of asswipes in any reality" spots, I'd probably still be happy with that. But when you give Wentworth Miller his best entrance in a history of great entrances and somehow make Len Snart even cooler than he already was, well, yeah...good bye objectivity. With Miller recently making noises that this is likely his last time as Captain Cold (or "Citizen Cold" as his more heroic version is known), this performance is here just to remind everyone why we love him so much in the first place. Just a reminder: the first truly capital letters GREAT episode of The Flash was when Captain Cold debuted. That turned out to be no accident.
*  *  *
Hell, in several ways, this is almost more of a Legends of Tomorrow episode. The continued focus on Firestorm, for one thing, and the fact that we got far more hours with Wentworth Miller as Captain Cold on that show than we ever did on The Flash. But for me, the real key to that here is Sara. We get two killer Sara Lance moments, both fairly quiet, and both, for me at least, seem like crucial illustrations of how well she has evolved as a leader. Not a leader by default. Not the Captain of the Waverider. Not the leader on her show. A superhero with an air of authority and the capability to lead and say the right thing, regardless of what group of heroes you put her with. Sara has taken to leadership far more quickly and naturally than Oliver ever did or that Barry ever will. And I think that final evolution just took place on someone else's show. 

Legends of Tomorrow Season 3 Episode 8 Review: Crisis on Earth-X Part 4
Jim Dandy    Nov. 29, 2017
http://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/legends-of-tomorrow/269310/legends-of-tomorrow-season-3-episode-8-review-crisis-on-earth-x-part-4

Quote

I'll confess that I didn't see Victor Garber going out like that. We've known he was leaving for a little while now, but I fully expected them to let him go off and be a zayde for a little while and pop back in when the gang needed something transmuted. Instead, they killed him, and they gave him a hell of an episode to leave on. First, he's mortally wounded trying to help the Earth-1 heroes (and Alex) escape Earth-X. Then he gets to say goodbye to Jax, in what was the most emotional scene of the series yet. This is not a show prone to nuance, but I feel like Garber and Franz Drameh did a wonderful job of selling it without blubbering or going too over the top. The sorrow was believably real, and I certainly felt it at Stately Dandy Manor.

Speaking of wonderful jobs, we should send some love to the effects team for this crossover. It was a week full of great shots and amazing fights, from the wedding in Supergirl to the first Nazi throwdown in Arrow to the Red Tornado fight in Flash. But the last fight, where the camera just kept swirling from beat to beat, from Sara beating the pants off of a horde of Nazis, to Flash and Thawne, to the two Olivers on the car, to the Supergirls and the Waverider dogfight, everything looked fantastic. 

There's been a lot of talk about normalizing Nazis lately, and definitely some deserved consternation about the show's use of Nazi imagery. The big takeaway from the real-world ball dropping by The Paper of Record on this subject is that the most effective way to address them is by making sure that their victims are centered. That was certainly the case here.

Look at the focal characters, the framing of the entire event: we focused on a lesbian and a bi woman, two gay men, and the black adopted son of a Jewish man who all got together for an interracial wedding. This crossover didn't shy away from showing the swastikas or the concentration camps of the Nazi Earth, and neither did they shy away from the imagery of the Nazis' victims: the pink triangle on The Ray's concentration camp outfit, the Stars of David on Felicity's or on Martin's casket, or the multiple, casual instances of affection between Snart and Ray. Legends has, going back to some of its earliest episodes, not been afraid to run right into issues of racism, sexism and homophobia that came up in the context of their time travelling. I was glad to see that same willingness to go right at the reprehensible Nazi ideology.

Edited November 30, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

"Moments like these we are all Diggle with our arms raised in the air in triumph."...

‘The Flash’ 4×08 Review: ‘Crisis on Earth-X, Part 3’
 November 29, 2017 by ALYSSA BARBIERI   
http://fangirlish.com/flash-4x08-review-crisis-earth-x-part-3/

Quote

But here’s the thing, we don’t need this reminder of one of the darkest moments in human history or for this show to try and humanize Nazis through relationships. There is nothing human about Nazis other than they can be killed.

But perhaps the worst thing is that there was no real reason for Nazis to be included in this crossover. This crossover would’ve worked just as well — hell, better — with some other evil dopplegangers from another Earth. It never felt necessary for the inclusion of Nazis, which is one of the problems.

Not to mention, the lack of trigger warnings in “Crisis on Earth-X, Part 3” was shocking. There were horrific shots of concentration camps, mass graves, and one of our own, Earth-X Felicity, nearly killed. Especially that mass grave scene. That was quite triggering. It was horrific. While some people might not feel it’s that big of a deal — that it’s just “entertainment” — stop and think about those people that this has affected personally.

I don’t count myself in that category. I’m not Jewish, and my family wasn’t affected by the Holocaust. But I’m disgusted for those people that have to watch this and deal with the ugly reality. This wasn’t something that this show made up. This event was real. The Holocaust was real. Nazis were real. The 6 million jewish lives lost were real. 
*   *  *
Fighting For Those You Love
...
This was the theme throughout the entirety of the crossover. I know that this review is specifically focused on “Part 3,” but I couldn’t go two reviews without getting to touch on this beautiful theme and how it was so brilliantly and heartbreakingly carried through the entire crossover event.

While this message certainly could’ve been delivered without the inclusion of Nazis, it was the driving force behind our heroes individual motivations. You had people fighting for the love of their life; you had people fighting for their family; you had people fighting for their team; you had people fighting for humanity. And no matter what your reason was, it was centered in love, which Sara once wisely said was “the most powerful emotion.” And it is.

There are some people that like to mock or complain about the focus of love in these superhero shows. Do these people watch any other television show, watch any movie, read any book, listen to any music? Most everything we do is because of love. Love is the single most important emotion that drives us as human beings. So you’re damn right it’s going to be a significant factor in this crossover event; in all of these shows past and moving forward.
*  *  *
Yes, that includes the all-important “love of my life.” Usually the complaints here stem more from personal ship preferences than anything. But such a big deal is made about that “love of my life” because it’s one of the central reasons why our hero is fighting. It doesn’t always have to be though. Sometimes family serves that role just as much if not better. Our heroes aren’t defined by one single love. There are usually several people that they love in different ways that inspire them to be courageous in the face of danger.
*  *  *
Not All Heroes Wear Masks
... 
Felicity Smoak and Iris West are two of the most badass characters in the DCTV universe. They’re strong, independent, inspiring women that use their individual strengths — especially intelligent and intuition– as superpowers. They don’t need people to call them heroes. It doesn’t matter. Because it doesn’t change the fact that both Felicity and Iris are superheroes.

They may not look like your typical hero or receive the glory and recognition — like Reverse Flash pointed out — but they’re still heroes. Heroes don’t do it for the glory. They do it because it’s the right thing to do. And at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter if they get the recognition. All that matters is that they did what they needed to do to contribute to saving someone or the world.
*  *  *
Felicity managed to hack STAR Labs to turn the power off to prevent Reverse Flash from cutting into Kara, and her and Iris dropped in to drag Kara to safety. While their escape plan came up short, they put their lives on the line to protect their friend. They showed bravery. They risked their lives. They don’t have superpowers. They don’t have a suit. But that doesn’t take away from their heroic actions.
*  *  *
7.  They made Earth-X Oliver Hitler, basically. Not a smart move. At all. Considering Felicity’s Jewish, Sara is bisexual, and so many other factors that make this such a bad idea.
8.  Can we stop with this Earth-X Kara and Oliver thing? It’s gross.
9.  Oliver will protect Felicity on any Earth. MY HEART.

Legends of Tomorrow 3×08 Review: “Crisis on Earth-X” Part 4
November 29, 2017 by CHARLES
http://fangirlish.com/legends-tomorrow-3x08-review-crisis-earth-x-part-4/

Quote

Oh yeah, we had not just one wedding, but two! Officially Bartholomew Allen and Iris West said “I do,” to become husband and wife. Then, not less than a minute later, what was years in the making finally happened, as Oliver Queen and Felicity Smoak made the ultimate commitment to one another and now the two power couple of the Arrowverse have officially put rings on it. (Well, once Oliver and Felicity get rings, but that’s a minor technicality). I’ll have way more on this joyous and emotional moment later in the review, but first we need to address the heartbreaking moment of the episode that left me weeping like a little baby.
*  *  *
I’ll be the first to admit to you that while I don’t hate Jax and Stein, I’ve never been their biggest fan, either. However, here I was, a bubbling mess from start to finish and it’s easy to get why. During the episode, someone said this was the saddest moment in Arrowverse history (Tommy Merlyn’s death ranks up there as well), and it was easy to see why. Because Victor Garber is one of the best actor in the history of TV, and this was just another example of it. While Franz was brilliant in this scene as well, this was Victor’s farewell, and what a masterful one it was.
*  *  *
Personal opinion is that while I understand that Nazis can make excellent bad guys, the way the world is right now I wouldn’t have picked them for this crossover. There was a ton of triggering images for people and honestly you could have done Evil Kara and Evil Oliver without making them Nazis. It’s simple but they went the easy way, and that was a mistake.
*  *  *
After a little super-speed and a little losing of lunch, we get Barry and Iris’s vows to one another. They are heartwarming and very personal as you would expect. WestAllen is something I grew into loving and the last year or so, I have fully been aboard the ship. My hope is that we continue to see these two happy and in love as this crossover has shown us.
*  *  *
So, we get a double wedding as this journey has changed Felicity’s mind on marriage. Where she was afraid of losing Oliver if they got reengaged, now she wants to Oliver to know that she loves him through everything and wants what he wants too.

It’s a short, beautiful moment. No vows are said, but Olicity has had tons of moments where they have told each other their vows of love to one another. So Diggle asks them the magic words, and we have our two main couples in the DC/CW world all married and everything.

Others will and have written about Olicity and WestAllen better than I, but I will say this: It’s been a long journey and one with bumps and bruises and angst out the ass, but moments like these make them all worth it. Moments like these we are all Diggle with our arms raised in the air in triumph.
*  *  *
-Barry letting Thawne go. Dammit writers, why do you have to make Barry look so stupid there?

-RIP to all the citizens who died while the heroes had to have their slow-motion walk. Like dudes, hurry up! You don’t need to look cool, just save people!
*  *  *
-The action scenes here were way better than in Justice League. Not trolling, just being honest.

Edited November 30, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

The Most Delightful Moments From Crisis On Earth-X Part 3 And 4
Rob Bricken   Nov 30, 2017
https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2017/11/the-most-delightful-moments-from-crisis-on-earth-x-part-3-and-4/

Quote

Felicity Smoak and Iris West, badarses
Arguably the most delightful revelation in the entirety of Crisis was that the love interests of Green Arrow and the Flash can kick as much Earth-X Nazi as anyone with superpowers. Not only do they escape Black Arrow and his guns' invasion of STAR Labs by going into the vents, John McClane-style (he wishes he had vents that big!), they punch out several armed Nazis and rescue Supergirl before she becomes an unwilling heart donor for Overgirl. Don't hold the fact that they got caught against them, because it isn't like Nazis didn't capture all the other heroes, too.
*  *  *
Oberkapitan Quentin Lance
Look, we honestly didn't catch the evil Earth-X Papa Lance's real title, but that's possibly because actor Paul Blackthorne was clearly having the time of his life playing someone so unequivocally, unapologetically evil. From his utterly unnecessary choice to speak with a German accent to his sneering exultation when he catches our Ollie pretending to be evil Ollie, Earth-X Lance was a perfect villain.

Felicity Smoak and Iris West, badarses
Oberkapitan Quentin Lance
The Ray
There's something different about Captain Cold
The death of Mick 'Heatwave' Rory
There's a Nazi Waverider
Red Tornado!
Superman vs. Reverse-Flash
The fall of Martin Stein
Line of the night
Line of the night two

Edited November 30, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

TV Review: ‘Crisis on Earth-X: Parts 3 and 4’
DARRYL JASPER   November 29, 2017
http://sciencefiction.com/2017/11/29/crisis-earth-x-review-parts-3-4/

Quote

Night two of the CW/DC ssuperherocrossover found our favorite CW heroes battling it out with their Earth-X Nazi counterparts in what was a strong, sometimes uneven showing was a reminder of the dichotomous nature of bringing four effects-laden shows together on a tight-schedule and limited production budget.
*  *  *
The first thing we see are the horrid conditions of an Earth-X concentration camp where, for some unknown reason, Oliver the Furhur decides sending most of the heroes to Earth-X is the way to go, despite having no real use for them. It’s a moment contrived for the purposes of the narrative and while that’s a bit disappointing, we do get some cool moments from it, starting with the picture of Quentin Lance as the Sturmbannfuhrer. He rounds up the heroes and the random prisoner that just happens to be Ray Terrill, aka The Ray for summary execution.
*  *  *
Though Evil Oliver is just another shade of the Oliver Queen we’ve come to know and love over five plus seasons, I must say that Melissa Benoist’s Overgirl steals the show. Though much of her time is spent in operation prep, her conversation with Supergirl is one of the top five moments in the crossover arc. She talks proudly about being better than humanity, being more. “They want someone to bow to,” she tells Supergirl, “To worship. To lead.” Her words are not dissimilar to Loki’s addressing of the crowd early on in The Avengers. “You people were made to be ruled,” he told the cowering masses. Overgirl’s philosophy—truthfully that of the Reich is that there is no place for weakness. Weakness is a disease to be stamped out. Only the strong deserve a place in their world.
*  *  *
Back to the big dustup that was the final battle. We get the archers, speedsters, and Kryptonians all squaring off against one another while the Nazi redshirts face the rest of the team. Loose battle choreography, coupled with a true lack of scale takes what could have been an absolutely memorable moment. Sadly, it suffered from the same fate as last season’s crossover finale with the Dominators. Great idea and, good execution in many respects but when you have budget and time constraints, there’s only so much you can do. Big-time battles is not one of them; it’s why these type of shows must have good character arcs lest the effect constraints take the audience out of the experience.

Thankfully, there are some truly dynamic character moments throughout the crossover, culminating on some teary goodbyes and major changes for the two biggest heroes.

After taking down Overgirl and Evil Oliver, saying goodbye to their friends, and burying Stein, Barry and Iris decide an impromptu ceremony in the park—with an unsuspecting Diggle presiding—is the way to go. Their words to one another remind us of the foundation that keeps The Flash on track. Though I wasn’t surprised at their nuptials, Felicity’s proposal and subsequent marriage to Oliver was a bit of a shocker to me. Without being too much into spoilers for any of the shows, I did not know this was going to happen. With that said, I must say…

About damn time.
*  *  *
This was a good time. While the finale may have fizzled in the action and pacing department, the crossover itself was a step up from last season’s Dominators storyline (albeit with similar issues that will always be in the way of a network television series). Some of the biggest positives include:

- Every character on every show was affected in a major way. Not only are Barry and Oliver now married, but the Legends have to deal with the loss of Stein (especially Jax), and Alex (thanks to Sara) is ready to move forward with herself. Perhaps the eye towards the future will rub off on Kara as well.
*  *  *
- Did you actually let Eobard Thawne go, Barry? They guy that has sworn to destroy you, you just let walk away? Barry has done some stupid things but letting a mortal enemy walk free takes the cake.

Edited November 30, 2017 by tv echo

[KenyaJ]

5 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

If you ever need to see the visual of the phrase "his eyes went dead" LMAO!

What? Being unable to testify against your spouse only covers events that happened while you were married, right? I know we have lawyers on this forum ... help! OTOH, this is TV and worse, this is Arrow so the legal stuff will always be weird (and wrong).

First, lolz. I will never, ever, ever tire of that gif, or the video of the original interview. I always laugh because, like Stephen, I am absolutely terrible at disguising my feelings. My face gives me away every time.

Second, as @Midnight Lullaby noted, it's generally true that spousal privilege only attaches once two people become legally married. However, each state has its own privilege rules, so how broad the privilege is varies from state to state. And like @Midnight Lullaby said Arrow is gonna Arrow, so they'll probably force Felicity to testify about what Oliver told her in the shower the morning of her testimony.

Finally, that Westallen scene in the church was hilarious. As Harry said in When Harry Met Sally, "When you realize you want to spend the rest of your life with somebody, you want the rest of your life to start as soon as possible." I'm pretty sure Iris understood better than anyone why Felicity couldn't wait .

[Mellowyellow]

48 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

Second, as @Midnight Lullaby noted, it's generally true that spousal privilege only attaches once two people become legally married. However, each state has its own privilege rules, so how broad the privilege is varies from state to state. And like @Midnight Lullaby said Arrow is gonna Arrow, so they'll probably force Felicity to testify about what Oliver told her in the shower the morning of her testimony.

It is so incredibly mean when you drop little ideas like this and make the rest of us pine over them!

6 hours ago, lemotomato said:

I found out recently that there's a followup question to that gif:

Is this actual interview footage? It's not a fan made gif using season 1 Oliver right?

Cuz if that's actual interview footage: Bahahahahahahahahaha

[bijoux]

Actual interview.

[lemotomato]

@Mellowyellow I found it! It was part of the TCA interviews in January 2015, so mid season 3.

https://www.accesshollywood.com/videos/stephen-amell-on-fight-training-for-arrow-season-3-49579/

I'd forgotten how this interview had a couple LOL-worthy moments. It first starts off with the interviewer asking SA about the scene where Oliver tells Felicity he loves her, and SA goes on a rambling story about Emily and OTA. At minute 2:20 the interviewer asks about BC and SA changes the subject to talk about costumes. 3:45 is when the interviewer asks the question in the above gifs. Watching SA's face change on video is even funnier.

Bonus! At 4:30 SA gets asked about what he thinks of Raylicity. 

Edited November 30, 2017 by lemotomato

[EmilyBettFan]

3 hours ago, tv echo said:

Den of Geek reviewers gave Flash 408 a score of 4/5 stars and LoT 308 a score of 5/5 stars...

The Flash Season 4 Episode 8 Review: Crisis on Earth X Part 3
Mike Cecchini    Nov. 29, 2017
http://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/the-flash/269307/the-flash-season-4-episode-8-review-crisis-on-earth-x-part-3

Legends of Tomorrow Season 3 Episode 8 Review: Crisis on Earth-X Part 4
Jim Dandy    Nov. 29, 2017
http://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/legends-of-tomorrow/269310/legends-of-tomorrow-season-3-episode-8-review-crisis-on-earth-x-part-4

I'm confused. Why are they talking about a star on felicity's casket? Huh?

[Mellowyellow]

Thanks so much @lemotomato

I just BURST out laughing!!!!!OMG did he just REFUSE to talk about BC and then went on a rant about how wonderful the wardrobe design lady is? Bahahahahhahahha

Interviewer: Oliver is in love with Felicity

SA: *Beginnings of one of those soft fond smiles*

Interviewer: In my mind he is very much in love with Laurel

SA: *Face shifts to murderous look from S1 angry angry Oliver*

This shit is hilarious!!!!!! I've always thought that he shipped Olicity but this is GOLD!!!!!

I thought he handled the Raylicity question well! Good detour by raving about how much he likes BR! It kinda makes his refusal to discuss BC stand out even more though! 

Thank you so much for finding me this! 

[lemotomato]

My pleasure! It was a really funny interview, and IIRC, gave fandom a lift when it came out.

[Midnight Lullaby]

I also remember his video on FB with Emily where he joked about not wanting to apologize to Brandon about I don’t remember what because of what happened on the last episode (Felicity and Ray sleeping together). He was hilarious about Ray/Felicity, lol

[Morrigan2575]

7 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

What? Being unable to testify against your spouse only covers events that happened while you were married, right? I know we have lawyers on this forum ... help! OTOH, this is TV and worse, this is Arrow so the legal stuff will always be weird (and wrong).

ETA: Already answered by people without pulling out Law & Order info ?

Edited December 1, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[JamieLynn832002]

1 hour ago, EmilyBettFan said:

I'm confused. Why are they talking about a star on felicity's casket? Huh?

It's phrased fairly poorly but I think they were actually talking about the star on X Felicity's concentration camp uniform.

[Guest]

Quote

Oberkapitan Quentin Lance
Look, we honestly didn't catch the evil Earth-X Papa Lance's real title, but that's possibly because actor Paul Blackthorne was clearly having the time of his life playing someone so unequivocally, unapologetically evil. From his utterly unnecessary choice to speak with a German accent to his sneering exultation when he catches our Ollie pretending to be evil Ollie, Earth-X Lance was a perfect villain.

WAIT. That was a German accent?!! I kept wondering what the hell he was doing with his voice because sometimes his British came through, I just couldn't place it. Personally I thought PB was OTT in his scenes tbh.

[lemotomato]

4 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

WAIT. That was a German accent?!! I kept wondering what the hell he was doing with his voice because sometimes his British came through, I just couldn't place it. Personally I thought PB was OTT in his scenes tbh.

Yeah, I couldn't place his accent either. He rolled his Rs at one point. I thought PB was going with a generic OTT sinister villain accent. It kind of bothered me, because the scenes with Nazi Lance (his screaming at Sara and bringing out EX Felicity) were genuinely upsetting and he was scenery chewing.

[BkWurm1]

I thought at first he was doing his normal accent but it shifted so then I thought he was doing generic European evil dude.  German never crossed my mind, lol.  Still, I didn't mind what was going on with the accent because the evil dude part was just so terrifyingly effective.  

[tv echo]

If the Nazis won WW2 on Earth-X, then wouldn't everyone be speaking German on that Earth?

I thought that the Collider writer's comparing Felicity's interruption to a Kanye moment was ridiculous. Kanye interrupted Taylor Swift's 'thank you' speech to say that her award should've been given to Beyonce instead. He brought down what should've been one of the happiest moments of her life in order to tell the world basically that she didn't deserve her award.

Felicity would only have pulled a Kanye if she had interrupted Barry while he was in the middle of saying his wedding vows to say that he didn't deserve to marry Iris and that she should've married, say, Eddie instead. Barry and Iris had already completed their wedding vow speeches. All that was left was for Diggle to pronounce them man and wife. Also, Felicity did not bring down their happy mood or denigrate them (unless you think that either Barry or Iris resented their addition to the ceremony). She only doubled the happiness of the moment.

I doubt there would be so much outrage in certain corners if the situation had been flipped. Like, Felicity proposes to Oliver after Stein's funeral and they decide to get married then and there. Barry flashes in Diggle. Then Barry & Iris decide not to redo their church wedding, and they join in on the wedding ceremony. But of course, then Olicity would probably be attacked for wanting to get married immediately after Stein's funeral (which is essentially what WestAllen did).

Edited December 1, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Wedding Bells Were Ringing in the Arrowverse Crossover Finale
By Lindsay MacDonald | Nov 28, 2017 10:00 PM EST
http://www.tvguide.com/news/westallen-olicity-wedding-arrowverse-crossover/

Quote

However, just before Dig could say, "I now pronounce you man and wife," Felicity (who acted as maid of honor to Iris) decided to get spontaneous and asked Diggle to marry her and Oliver too.

It was a sharp turnaround from what happened in the early goings of the crossover. In the first episode of the four-hour event, Felicity turned down Oliver's proposal of marriage, adamant that she didn't need to marry the love of her life in order to live happily ever after with him. Well, nothing changes your perspective on saying "I do" like nearly getting murdered by the evil Nazi version of your boyfriend, right?

Maybe that was actually a blessing in disguise, because when all was said and done, both couples made their vows and both men kissed their brides.

It may have been a little on the cheesy side to marry both couples together, but after all the drama and angst Olicity and WestAllen have been through over the years, they were totally due for some cheese. Here's hoping the parties and/or honeymoons Olicity and WestAllen get in honor of their nuptials make up for the spontaneous timing of the actual wedding.

Edited December 1, 2017 by tv echo

[bijoux]

17 hours ago, Angel12d said:

WAIT. That was a German accent?!! I kept wondering what the hell he was doing with his voice because sometimes his British came through, I just couldn't place it. Personally I thought PB was OTT in his scenes tbh.

Not this Earth's German accent.

[statsgirl]

15 hours ago, tv echo said:

If the Nazis won WW2 on Earth-X, then wouldn't everyone be speaking German on that Earth?

They would probably have to learn German or Italian but that doesn't mean they would be speaking it.

After Churchill and Roosevelt negotiated to give the Democratic countries of Eastern Europe to Stalin, everyone there had to learn Russian as a second language in school but most couldn't actually speak it. As my cousin said, she could give you scientific formulas in Russian but she didn't know the Russian to go into a store and buy a loaf of bread.

On 11/30/2017 at 6:25 PM, EmilyBettFan said:

I'm confused. Why are they talking about a star on felicity's casket? Huh?

I had to read it twice but it's actually the correct grammar

Quote

This crossover didn't shy away from showing the swastikas or the concentration camps of the Nazi Earth, and neither did they shy away from the imagery of the Nazis' victims: the pink triangle on The Ray's concentration camp outfit, the Stars of David on Felicity's or on Martin's casket, or the multiple, casual instances of affection between Snart and Ray.

"the Star of David on Felicity's" (meaning like on The Ray's concentration camp outfit) "or on Martin's casket"

Edited December 2, 2017 by statsgirl

[tv echo]

EW's Kyle and Natalie talk about "Crisis on Earth-X" (starting at around the 21:20 mark)...

Superhero Insider talks with Gregg Sulkin and digs into the Crossover
December 1, 2017  Kyle Anderson & Natalie Abrams

-- Kyle was looking forward to going back and re-watching "Crisis on Earth-X" as one four-hour movie. He and Natalie both thought that the crossover was an "unequivocal success." Natalie said that "Crisis" was the best crossover yet.

-- Kyle thought that everyone got a "complete story" (Sara/Alex, Barry/Iris, Oliver/Felicity, Stein/Jax), but Natalie wanted to see more of the Legends. Kyle thought that Ray Palmer's lack of screen time was made up for by his very satisfying surprise entrance to save Kara.

-- Kyle and Natalie both got the "heebie jeebies" when Dark Arrow and Overgirl kissed and every time they were on screen together. Natalie thought that it was "part and parcel" of making us not like these characters. Kyle thought it was to reinforce the fact that they were not from this Earth.

-- Kyle was "particularly tickled by the teaming up of Iris and Felicity." He loved them teaming up together and sneaking around the vents and back corridors of STAR Labs. Natalie said it was "Hashtag Feminism." 

-- Natalie noted the Die Hard and Terminator references that Felicity and Iris made, as well as the subsequent Superman II line said by Kara. Kyle loved the "Up. Up. And Away." line by Wells.

-- Natalie thought that the wedding caterer girl was Dawn Allen, one half of the Tornado Twins and the daughter of Barry & Iris. However, she mentioned another theory that the girl could be XS, their granddaughter and a member of the Legion of Superheroes.

-- They then talked about Citizen Cold and The Ray. 

-- They questioned how Eobard Thawne could still be alive and how he could have Harrison Wells' face. Kyle didn't understand the logic. Natalie thought that maybe it was just a nod to the comics where Reverse Flash always comes back, no matter how many times Barry kills him.

-- Natalie wondered how Oliver got kryptonite when Earth-1 doesn't have Superman or Supergirl.

-- They then talked about Stein's death and wondered what will happen to Jax now. 

-- Kyle would "100% watch" a spinoff starring Caity Lotz and Chyler Leigh as private detectives kicking ass.

-- They were both shocked and excited about the surprise Prometheus reveal being Tommy Merlyn. Kyle said the scene between Oliver and Tommy was great and that you could see everything that's going on SA's face. 

-- Natalie thought the MVP of the crossover was Melissa Benoist. She loved Overgirl. Kyle thought the MVP of the crossover was Caity Lotz and said that every time she was on screen, she was "electric."

-- Natalie noted the diversity of the characters on the crossover.

-- Kyle and Natalie did not discuss the double wedding of WestAllen and Olicity (I don't believe).

Edited December 2, 2017 by tv echo