Unpopular Opinions: Happily Ever After? Yeah, Right!

[Mathius]

I really would not mind at all if the show is cancelled and ends with S6, in fact I would kind of prefer it.  People keep freaking out about it ending in such a bad season and wanting one where A&E would be more prepared for the end, but I think that even after all this time they highly underestimate A&E's ability to suck.  There is nothing saying that S6 is the worst things can get, just as 2B ended up not being the worst, and 4B ended up not being the worst. A S7 where they are consciously gearing up for the endgame holds a very real possibility of being even worse than S6.  Since there is no way to quit while the show is ahead now, I'd rather they just quit, period. Then we can all relax and wash our hands of this giant waste of potential.

Edited January 13, 2017 by Mathius

[KingOfHearts]

2 minutes ago, Mathius said:

I really would not mind at all if the show is cancelled and ends with S6, in fact I would kind of prefer it.  People keep freaking out about it ending in such a bad season and wanting one where A&E would be more prepared for the end, but I think that even after all this time they highly underestimate A&E's ability to suck.  There is nothing saying that S6 is the worst things can get, just as 2B ended up not being the worst, and 4B ended up not being the worst. A S7 where they are consciously gearing up for the endgame holds a very real possibility of being even worse than S6.  Since there is no way to quit while the show is ahead now, I'd rather they just quit, period. Then we can all relax and wash our hands of this giant waste of potential.

As much as I hate S6, I have to agree with Mathius. An S7 is only going to piss off fans even more. Even if A&E got all the warning in the world, their planned ending is still going to suck. It's not like the network would be taking away Van Gogh's paintbrush if they dropped a cancellation on them. Even if S7 was a limited season, the writers would not fill it in with everything we've wanted to see. Even 10 episodes would be full of filler due to their style that can't stay focused for very long.

[Mathius]

I'm thinking that the series finale would be a two-parter mostly unrelated to the arc that immediately preceded it no matter what season it's in.

Edited January 13, 2017 by Mathius

[daxx]

My best case scenario at the moment is the network cancels it but grants two more hours for a series finale. 24 eps total this season. 

[TheGreenKnight]

On ‎1‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 11:45 AM, Mathius said:

There is nothing saying that S6 is the worst things can get, just as 2B ended up not being the worst, and 4B ended up not being the worst. 

4B's still the worst.

[kingshearte]

On 1/13/2017 at 1:56 PM, Mathius said:

I'm thinking that the series finale would be a two-parter mostly unrelated to the arc that immediately preceded it no matter what season it's in.

Ha! Indeed.

[KingOfHearts]

2A was a near-perfect jumping-off point from S1, and it's underrated. Regina's redemption was great there, the curse fallout was dealt with head on, and Emma's relationship with her parents was explored more than it has been since. S2 gets a lot of blame, but that should be on 2B. The only problem I have with 2A is Child of the Moon, but that's just because it's a dud filler. Everything else was natural and flowed well. I would put the quality on the same par as S1.

[Shanna Marie]

40 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

2A was a near-perfect jumping-off point from S1, and it's underrated.

I agree. I'll admit, I wasn't crazy about it at the time of initial airing because it wasn't what I wanted or expected following from season one, but in retrospect, it's probably my favorite arc. Season one is probably technically "better," but it gets awfully oppressive. 2A is a lot of fun to watch, and is probably the arc I rewatch most often. I love the Team Princess adventure, Snow getting to be a badass, and the back and forth with Hook and Cora (it feels like the heroes and villains are evenly matched). On the Storybrooke side, we didn't yet have Woegina, Henry was tolerable, David got to shine, and I liked the relationship between David and Henry.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

Season one is probably technically "better," but it gets awfully oppressive.

I just rewatched the entirety of S1. While it was deeper and challenged the audience more, it got repetitive. David and Mary Margaret got together, broke up, got together again, etc. Snow and Charming reunited, than got separated, repeatedly. Regina and Emma would keep losing and winning. Emma would get close to believing, then fall back into doubt again. I realize the writers had to keep spinning wheels to stretch their story out across 22 episodes, but a lot of it really fell to the side in the long run. While Kathryn's murder case was interesting and developed David/MM, it became completely irrelevant the minute it was over. Sure, it probably pushed Emma to fight for Henry's custody, but there were many other things that would have done the job. All the relationship angst had no consequences. If the show stuck with the fake personalities, it would have fleshed everything out well. Self-contained, it was alright, but in the grand scheme of things, it felt like filler. 

One thing I did notice this time around that Henry didn't matter as much in the middle of S1. When Emma proclaimed she was going to take Henry toward the end of the season, it was like when Snow said, "Let's fight Hades and go home!" in 5B. Suddenly, the core objective became important after a slog. The pacing on this show is weird.

Quote

2A is a lot of fun to watch, and is probably the arc I rewatch most often. I love the Team Princess adventure, Snow getting to be a badass, and the back and forth with Hook and Cora (it feels like the heroes and villains are evenly matched). On the Storybrooke side, we didn't yet have Woegina, Henry was tolerable, David got to shine, and I liked the relationship between David and Henry.

A&E are really good at straight-forward, linear plots. While 2A had quite the balancing act between Storybrooke, Team Princess, and the flashbacks, the plot was fairly simple. 3A and 5B followed the adventure structure, and they were very palatable to watch as well. Complicated threads, as in 2B or 4B, are where things unravel into a mess. 5A would have worked better for me if we had stayed in Camelot and there was no Merida subplot. The pit-stops gave it pacing issues.

Edited March 8, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Mathius]

1 hour ago, KingOfHearts said:

A&E are really good at straight-forward, linear plots. While 2A had quite the balancing act between Storybrooke, Team Princess, and the flashbacks, the plot was fairly simple. 3A and 5B followed the adventure structure, and they were very palatable to watch as well. Complicated threads, as in 2B or 4B, are where things unravel into a mess. 5A would have worked better for me if we had stayed in Camelot and there was no Merida subplot. The pit-stops gave it pacing issues.

True.  The two exceptions are 3B, which was a straight-forward, linear plot that still mostly sucked because A&E didn't take advantage of all the possibilities the Missing Year provided and spent way too much time on the villain's backstory than was necessary, and the flashbacks of S1, which were not straight-forward and linear at all since they were totally out of order, and yet they all fit together into a whole backstory to the Dark Curse by the end, and each flashback seemed appropriately placed in terms of when it would be best for the audience to learn certain information. 

[KingOfHearts]

10 minutes ago, Mathius said:

True.  The two exceptions are 3B, which was a straight-forward, linear plot that still mostly sucked because A&E didn't take advantage of all the possibilities the Missing Year provided and spent way too much time on the villain's backstory than was necessary, and the flashbacks of S1, which were not straight-forward and linear at all since they were totally out of order, and yet they all fit together into a whole backstory to the Dark Curse by the end, and each flashback seemed appropriately placed in terms of when it would be best for the audience to learn certain information. 

3B had a linear plot setup, but as you said, Zelena derailed it with three flashbacks devoted to her backstory. If the Missing Year got its dues, it would have been more akin to 2A/3A/5B. Nothing justifies the time jump from Hook meeting Ariel to visiting Glinda. There were so many months where Zelena grew more of a threat to the kingdom, yet we're only paid lip service. That's a pretty big offense against "show, don't tell". Another thing with 3B is the characters weren't working toward a specific goal. In 2A, Snow and Emma were trying to get home. In 3A, they were trying to save Henry. In 5B, it was #SaveHook and free the Underworld citizens. In 3B, the heroes were purely reacting to Zelena. 

Edited March 8, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

I think the problem with 3B was that it shouldn't have been linear. It really needed to be more complex. Zelena alone wasn't enough to sustain an interesting story. They couldn't do much with the missing year because there wasn't anything to work with. They couldn't actually stop Zelena, since she needed to be in the present, and there wasn't enough to her scheme to give them ways to challenge her at all. She had a very simple plan with a single objective. Stopping one part of it killed the whole thing, so there was absolutely nothing the good guys could do and still have the present-day plot. Even in the present, they did absolutely nothing to thwart Zelena until the very end. This would have been the time to throw in something like the Queens of Darkness to give them something else to do -- maybe not have Zelena's threat become apparent until the end of the Missing Year, with them fighting other villains before then, lending some suspense as to which villain led to the casting of Curse 2 and which villain they were facing in Storybrooke.

[TheGreenKnight]

On ‎3‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 2:14 PM, KingOfHearts said:

2A was a near-perfect jumping-off point from S1, and it's underrated. Regina's redemption was great there, the curse fallout was dealt with head on, and Emma's relationship with her parents was explored more than it has been since. S2 gets a lot of blame, but that should be on 2B. The only problem I have with 2A is Child of the Moon, but that's just because it's a dud filler. Everything else was natural and flowed well. I would put the quality on the same par as S1.

I agree. 2A through to TMD is pretty good, minus one or two dud episodes. I still have no idea why they didn't map out the season to end with Cora's death in the finale. Killing her midway through 2B was so bizarre. I'm guessing maybe they wanted to build up to going to Neverland for S3, but they could've been doing that as a subplot while Cora was the main storyline, then had the first half of the finale be TMD and the second half be Tamara and Greg grabbing Henry and portal-jumping.

[oncebluethrone]

These are my thoughts:

I generally loved S1, but Emma taking the entire season to believe, but sometimes being close was frustrating.  I also didn't like how the murder plot doesn't seem to fit in with the rest of the show and I hated Regina (loved the EQ though).  

S2 up until Cora's death was really good as well.  I especially loved the princess adventure in the Enchanted Forest.  But after Cora's death, the season just fell apart.

I loved the adventure aspect of 3A and how everyone was working together towards a common goal.  

I loved 3B as well.  I found Zelena to be an interesting villain and loved how Regina was becoming a hero.  I also loved all the flashbacks to the missing year in the EF, but my favorite part by far was all the Captain Swan stuff, especially the finale.

4A was great due to the fact that the Frozen characters were spot-on, but it also wasn't great since the plot had so much focus on them instead of the mains (except Emma).

4B suffered from the same problems as 4A, but I thought it was pretty good overall.

I have a love/hate relationship with season 5 as a whole.  I love how much it focused on Captain Swan and how the overall theme of the season was Emma's love for Killian, but I kind of hated how Emma was the villain of 5A and how 5B became more about the Mills family instead of the premise of Emma recusing Killian from the Underworld. I also wasn't that fond of most of the episodes in the middle of 5B.

So far, I have absolutely loved season 6.  I love how everyone has gotten (or will get) a storyline this season whether it is part of the overall plot of the season (Emma and Saviorology/Gideon and the Black Fairy), at least half of the season (Snowing curse and EQ/Regina split), or a few episodes at most (Jekyll and Hyde, the Untold Stories, etc).  I'm also super excited for the second half.

[maryle]

Sorry, to say but Gideon and the Rumbelle family drama didn't work at all for me.

I thought the story did have potential but didn't buy Rumbelle not even fighting the weird logic that if Gideon killed Emma he'd becomes a new Savior.

They both just stand there and roll with it and the dynamic was dull.

I do love Robert acting usually but his scene with Gideon didn't draw me in at all.

So, really not looking forward to all the Gideon and Rumbelle stuff and don't the actor to become a regular if there a reboot.

Edited March 13, 2017 by maryle

[scenicbyway]

So, I don't really get Hook's choice in engagement ring for Emma.  The guy has been around for 200+years and he goes for the basic yet classic modern engagement ring?  I guess I figured he'd have something from the past with some kind of meaning or even a ring from the Enchanted Forest.  I'm a little dissappointed.

[daxx]

Perhaps he was looking for something Emma's style rather than his own?

[KingOfHearts]

I would have rather them retconned the crap out of the Evil Queen than show her stop short of seeing the light, over and over. I would prefer some contrived explanation like witch possession, corrupted by dark magic, some random spell Rumple cooked up, or an alternative timeline. Her behavior has been ridiculously excused already, just without any real explanation. Or, maybe do the opposite - the Charmings are under a spell to love her unconditionally. If the writers are going to keep retreading on the Evil Queen, they need to bring something new to the table. Things are so stupid already that a retcon would not be that earth-shattering. 

I could tolerate Hero!Regina or the Evil Queen, but she can't be both. Those are two opposite extremes that contradict each other. It just makes her a hypocrite, and nobody finds that entertaining.

Edited March 23, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[RulerofallIsurvey]

I actually liked Merida.  I don't think she was used well.  But I like the character (the original Disney character...can't remember too much about the OUAT character) and the actress.  

[scenicbyway]

I don't like Hook's new leather coat.  The length is weird to me.

[silversmith]

Please end this show and my half-devotion to it. I hate the continual disappointment.  I've relied on this board's reaction to determine whether or not to watch...so I've not watched a full episode for...I can't even remember because it's been so long. I actually like Regina enough that she doesn't bother me, but the main reason I've been watching is the Hook/Emma relationship. Lately, it's been been a colossal waste of time. I want ABC to end the show because I'm too much of an optimist to stop watching pieces here and there on my own. These writers have potential, but they seemingly refuse to use it. It's so frustrating! 

[Mathius]

On 3/26/2017 at 0:01 PM, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I actually liked Merida.  I don't think she was used well.  But I like the character (the original Disney character...can't remember too much about the OUAT character) and the actress.  

I actually liked Merida in "The Bear King", for some reason she was actually likable there.  It was every other episode where I had problems with her.

[CCTC]

I agree about "The Bear King".  I remember dreading it and then being pleasantly surprised of how Merida was written in that particular episode.  

[KingOfHearts]

1 hour ago, Mathius said:

I actually liked Merida in "The Bear King", for some reason she was actually likable there.  It was every other episode where I had problems with her.

It was the only episode where she got to have a heartfelt, quiet conversation with someone. I just rewatched The Bear King, and I actually like it as a side trip. It was fun seeing Merida, King Arthur, The Wicked Witch, Mulan and Red Riding Hood duking it out. The fun mashup adventures are great. (Except if its Ruby Slippers.) I enjoyed that aspect in the S5 finale, actually. Team Wicked Hero in LoUS was great.

Edited March 30, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[asabovesobelow]

I think the show did itself a real disservice by focusing on romantic relationships in the way that it has. Season 1 was all about the fairytale/real world contrasts, and it was new, exciting, and full of intrigue. Emma was a badass hero, Regina was a total bitch/villain with some shades of gray, Mary Margaret and David had to find their way back to each other as the 'true love' story. 5 seasons later, nearly every comment is focused on Captain Swan - riding off in the Bug, going on their honeymoon, getting their happy ending as a couple.  Not much else. I don't think this is what the show was supposed to be, or could have been.  And it's pretty disappointing. 

[Curio]

I tend to get a little confused when people are disappointed by the show focusing on romantic relationships. I respect your opinion, but I have a hard time personally seeing it because, as was noted in the relationships thread recently, the show still surprisingly focuses a lot on non-romantic relationships. It's just that those stories tend to not be written very well so it doesn't click with the audience. But it's not like the writers aren't including those stories. When you look back at the recent big premieres and finales, the main character combinations were: Emma/August, Regina/Emma, Regina/Snow, Regina/Emma/Henry, Team LoUS, and Regina/Henry Sr. The Wish Realm focused a lot on Regina/Robin, but they ended up not even being romantically matched for each other because he was actually meant for the Evil Queen (who is apparently now and forever a completely separate character from Regina.) It's just that romance tends to click more with the audience; even Shakespeare knew that.

Even though Emma wasn't in a romantic relationship in Season 1, Snow and Charming's romance was a huge reason why the show became such a hit. You look at the promotion for the show during the first season and a lot of the media focused on Snow and Charming's True Love. The only Entertainment Weekly cover OUAT has landed is a photo of Snow and Charming, so it seems natural for the show to continue developing romantic relationships as well as continuing family relationships later in its run. Once Snow and Charming played out their story, it's only logical that their daughter would find True Love as well. OUAT is a show about Disney fairy tales, so not wanting the show to focus on romantic relationships sounds a little like someone going see a Transformers movie and complaining about too many robot fights. At a certain point, you have to accept this is the show's DNA, and it's been a part of the DNA since Episode 1. Early episodes included Cinderella and her prince falling in love, and Season 1 also gave us Rumple and Belle when they were still decently written. If anything, the theatrical release of "Beauty and the Beast" and its huge box office success could mean that OUAT did a disservice by not focusing more on romantic relationships.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Curio

[asabovesobelow]

I love a good romance. I thought Snow and Charming were well done, and I really enjoyed them in the early stages. It was schmoopy, but it worked. I understand what you're saying about the non-romantic pairings, but everything comes back to the same tired plot: will Captain Swan make it...will Rumbelle make it...will Outlaw Queen make it...it's just so tired. To me, anyway.

Yes, OUAT is about Disney fairy tales. Maybe that's why Disney doesn't have a long running cartoon series based on will they/won't they. It becomes boring. The new Tangled cartoon series has Rapunzel and Eugene together as partners - but it's not based on their relationship. 

Regina and Wish Robin weren't matched for each other...great, but Robin was already dead. Another rehash of Outlaw Queen, just a different iteration.

Maybe the larger point here is the writing. Because each of the relationships the writers have chosen to focus on have been so tumultuous, they cast a shadow over anything else that might be happening. We know Gideon is trying to kill Emma, and while unlikely, we don't know if he'll succeed. But the focus is on Emma's and Hook's hands to see if the rings are present. If they're going to a cute little B&B for their honeymoon. I just think it's morphed into something that it didn't need to become.

[Curio]

43 minutes ago, asabovesobelow said:

Maybe the larger point here is the writing. Because each of the relationships the writers have chosen to focus on have been so tumultuous, they cast a shadow over anything else that might be happening. We know Gideon is trying to kill Emma, and while unlikely, we don't know if he'll succeed. But the focus is on Emma's and Hook's hands to see if the rings are present. If they're going to a cute little B&B for their honeymoon. I just think it's morphed into something that it didn't need to become.

I see where you're coming from now, and it sounds like your concern is more with the fandom's reaction to the show than the actual show itself. Fandom is this weird thing that can influence the way you view a show; I know being involved with OUAT's fandom has shaped the way I view it. Before I discussed the show online, I blindly accepted certain plots, like I was totally fine with Tamara and Owen, didn't even remember the famous "lasagne scene" where Regina was sad, and was actually rooting for Rumple and Belle to get together. But once I joined the fandom and started reading transcripts and thought about the show on more of an analytical level, I realized things about the story I never would have known if I stayed a casual viewer.

There are some television shows where I wish there was an active fandom to discuss each episode, but most of the time I'm unlucky and the shows I watch don't have the kinds of discussions we have here. So if being involved with the OUAT fandom means having to wade through a bunch of Twitter wars between SQ and CS or Rumbelle fans complaining about lack of focus, I'll take it. I sometimes wish the fandom was different or behaved differently, but there's enough good discussion going on that I can ignore the parts of fandom I don't like.

[asabovesobelow]

47 minutes ago, Curio said:

I see where you're coming from now, and it sounds like your concern is more with the fandom's reaction to the show than the actual show itself. Fandom is this weird thing that can influence the way you view a show; I know being involved with OUAT's fandom has shaped the way I view it.

Not entirely, I really think that the show has become a jumbled mess, a Clash of the Pandering. 

However, point well taken.  I don't care how other people view episodes, but in a place that skews heavily, heavily, Captain Swan, it's hard to maintain a discussion that doesn't revolve around their relationship or how much Regina sucks. And that's why I feel that the show has devolved into something akin to a relationshippy soap opera - that's almost always the focus. I really wish that the show wouldn't try so hard to manufacture angst and longing; not every scene has to be a reckoning. One thing I'm sure we can agree on is the fact the the writers do not do a good job of fleshing out relationships. 

[Curio]

11 minutes ago, asabovesobelow said:

I really wish that the show wouldn't try so hard to manufacture angst and longing; not every scene has to be a reckoning. One thing I'm sure we can agree on is the fact the the writers do not do a good job of fleshing out relationships. 

Agreed. Not every single episode needs to have this huge dramatic moment that will get all the media outlets buzzing about them. A network show is a 22-episode marathon, not a 10-episode cable drama that can afford to create shocking moments every episode. If the writers took the time to flesh out every relationship on the show—platonic and romantic—and allowed the characters time to have fun moments that do nothing for the plot but help their characterizations, we'd have more to discuss and get excited about. But something is really wrong when the writer of the last episode didn't even realize that Snow and Hook's conversation was their first one-on-one conversation in the entire series. That's what makes the show so one-dimensional and keeps the fandom so segregated. I wish there were more types of discussions going on, but the writers have set the show up in a way where they make it very clear which characters/plots are the only ones that matter. Why get excited about certain things when you know it doesn't matter in the long run?

[ParadoxLost]

11 hours ago, asabovesobelow said:

I think the show did itself a real disservice by focusing on romantic relationships in the way that it has. Season 1 was all about the fairytale/real world contrasts, and it was new, exciting, and full of intrigue. Emma was a badass hero, Regina was a total bitch/villain with some shades of gray, Mary Margaret and David had to find their way back to each other as the 'true love' story. 5 seasons later, nearly every comment is focused on Captain Swan - riding off in the Bug, going on their honeymoon, getting their happy ending as a couple.  Not much else. I don't think this is what the show was supposed to be, or could have been.  And it's pretty disappointing. 

I don't think that the show focuses on romantic relationships.  The fandom certainly does but I think a lot of that comes from the lack of focus on the actual and potential romantic relationships.

Rumbelle:  is Rumple knocking Belle unconscious most of the time

Outlaw Queen: is Robin standing around holding Regina's purse

Snowing: alternating babysitting and sleeping curse duty where they don't actually share scenes

Captain Swan: a one per season adventure or date and not much romance or domesticity to speak of

But honestly, if you asked me what I thought the show focused on rather than romantic relationships, I'd never be able to tell you.  Everything is so shallow that it feels like this is a show about nothing and not in a Seinfeld way.  Its almost never smart or clever.  

There is no ability to discuss the show with any depth because their is no depth to the stories. So all discussion devolves into how whatever relationship someone managed to latch onto, during a brief anomalous period of halfway decent writing, is being g***** and what they'd like to see instead and which character is to blame and why they suck and why the writers suck too. And I'm as guilty of this as anyone.

I yearn to be able to discuss how cleverly the show mines fairy tales for mystery and satire and exploration of how fairy tale characters would relate to the real world.  But there is none of that. 

So now to bring this back to unpopular opinions.

I think Regina is the character that has been the most damaged by the writers. She had the potential to have a really dynamic and interesting relationships but she has suffered as a character from everyone being overly supportive. 

[asabovesobelow]

51 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

I don't think that the show focuses on romantic relationships.  The fandom certainly does but I think a lot of that comes from the lack of focus on the actual and potential romantic relationships.

Rumbelle:  is Rumple knocking Belle unconscious most of the time

Outlaw Queen: is Robin standing around holding Regina's purse

Snowing: alternating babysitting and sleeping curse duty where they don't actually share scenes

Captain Swan: a one per season adventure or date and not much romance or domesticity to speak of

But honestly, if you asked me what I thought the show focused on rather than romantic relationships, I'd never be able to tell you.  Everything is so shallow that it feels like this is a show about nothing and not in a Seinfeld way.  Its almost never smart or clever.  

There is no ability to discuss the show with any depth because their is no depth to the stories. So all discussion devolves into how whatever relationship someone managed to latch onto, during a brief anomalous period of halfway decent writing, is being g***** and what they'd like to see instead and which character is to blame and why they suck and why the writers suck too. And I'm as guilty of this as anyone.

I yearn to be able to discuss how cleverly the show mines fairy tales for mystery and satire and exploration of how fairy tale characters would relate to the real world.  But there is none of that. 

So now to bring this back to unpopular opinions.

I think Regina is the character that has been the most damaged by the writers. She had the potential to have a really dynamic and interesting relationships but she has suffered as a character from everyone being overly supportive. 

I love everything about this post. (I disagree about Regina, because I love her, but I'm not oblivious and you have a very valid point.)

Part of the problem is that I mourn for what this show could've been. I don't know that I've ever felt a show go off the rails as much as this one has. I'll stick it out until the bitter end, because I just can't quit. I watch for glimpses of season 1, where they undeniably created memorable and interesting characters, rich with possibility. Much of that has been squandered.

So we'll move forward, CSers yearning for a real relationship, SQers lamenting the missed opportunities, OQers feeling cheated and patronized. Because when it comes down to it, you're right. There's just nothing else.

Edited March 31, 2017 by asabovesobelow

[oncebluethrone]

19 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

I think Regina is the character that has been the most damaged by the writers. She had the potential to have a really dynamic and interesting relationships but she has suffered as a character from everyone being overly supportive.

I kind of agree with you on this. Especially in terms of her relationship with Snow and Emma.  In the Season 5 finale when Snow says "We forgive you, you know," I laughed. I also laughed when she said "You deserve this" in 6x12. Snow is one of my favorited characters, but moments like these show how much she bows to Regina. Emma is also constantly checking to make sure she's okay (when she's probably fine) when she should really be checking to see how her "had a near or almost-near death experience boyfriend" is doing. Regina has a narcissistic personality and is somewhat obsessed with her happy ending which reflects with how much the show focuses on her. If Regina had a good redemption arc, her relationships could have been more interesting, but since A&E decided to focus so much on her getting her happy ending, redemption fell by the wayside and she has basically become an un-redeemed villain turned hero.  And speaking of Regina's happy ending, does anyone else think it's her being at peace with herself, which would basically mean she got her happy ending last episode?

[Curio]

23 minutes ago, oncebluethrone said:

which would basically mean she got her happy ending last episode?

I think what we saw last episode was the closest Regina is ever going to get to a happy ending. I said this in the episode thread, but there doesn't seem to be much else left to tell in Regina's story at this point—they've resolved all her major arcs. Maybe this is an unpopular opinion so I'll keep it here, but I thought that was by far Lana's best episode and nothing else she does can top it. It would have been nice if that was Regina's sendoff episode because there really isn't much growth for her character at this point and she could have gone out on a high note. Unfortunately, the writers planned that episode too early in 6B and I have no idea what Regina is going to do for the last seven or eight episodes. Maybe she'll get the wallpaper treatment like Hook and the Charmings whenever the writers don't know what to do with them for an arc.

Edited March 31, 2017 by Curio

[oncebluethrone]

19 minutes ago, Curio said:

I think what we saw last episode was the closest Regina is ever going to get to a happy ending. I said this in the episode thread, but there doesn't seem to be much else left to tell in Regina's story at this point—they've resolved all her major arcs. Maybe this is an unpopular opinion so I'll keep it here, but I thought that was by far Lana's best episode and nothing else she does can top it. It would have been nice if that was Regina's sendoff episode because there really isn't much growth for her character at this point and she could have gone out on a high note. Unfortunately, the writers planned that episode too early in 6B and I have no idea what Regina is going to do for the last seven or eight episodes. Maybe she'll get the wallpaper treatment like Hook and the Charmings whenever the writers don't know what to do with them for an arc.

6x14 was a top Regina/Lana episode for me as well.  I do think she'll become more of a supporting main in the upcoming episodes since none of them focus on her and because her narrative arc is complete at this point.

[Mathius]

32 minutes ago, Curio said:

Maybe this is an unpopular opinion so I'll keep it here, but I thought that was by far Lana's best episode and nothing else she does can top it.

I agree, especially since she was playing opposite herself in a very emotional sequence, which is really difficult to do convincingly but she did it.

[ParadoxLost]

24 minutes ago, asabovesobelow said:

 (I disagree about Regina, because I love her, but I'm not oblivious and you have a very valid point.)

Part of the problem is that I mourn for what this show could've been. 

To steal your words and twist them around, that I mourn for the potential of what Regina could have been is probably a good way for me to put it.  I think there is the widest gap between the potential Regina had as a character and what was executed on screen. That doesn't mean its not valid that she's a favorite. I just think she had the potential to be so much more than she is with a better love interest and a more conflicted set of relationships. 

I've always thought that early on Captain Swan succeeded in capturing my interest because the writers didn't care enough to pay attention to them the way they did Regina.  The sense here (right or wrong) is that the writers love Regina.  I've always thought it would be a terrible thing for these writers to love writing for my favorite.

[maryle]

I have no idea if my little rant about A and E. are impopular but...

First, I always will be considering the first season favorably.

But, what killed Once is what they both  considered a genius idea at the time.

Make Once like a real Rorschach projection test so everyone favorite (ship, character...) can become the real protagonist of the story at a point.

But, they forgot that rapidly all characters will become interchange or a caricature of themselves without any deep. Because, of the ever changing  focus on the next character in the need to highlight his struggles. So, every childhood become similar... every story kinda repetitive.

So, it is really easy to just looking the view of Regina, Hook, snowing, Rumple et Emma  and dismiss the view a fans want because that it is intended this way by A and E. who give a little bit to everyone so.... So, every storyline end up underwhelming and the fans desapointed.

  The storyline can't sustain such clivage, and dichotomy  always trying to keep everyone as protagonist the longer it can and never making a clair lign between characters roles.

So, such uncertainty can never  a give the needed  screen time to each protagonist to be a well develop character with his more important relationship matter. 

 I certain it won't change if the reboot happen.

Already, the three veterans the most likely to come back (Jen, Lana and Colin) more the two new lead is enough because but adding Zelena, Henry  and some new Disney characters like every year and all the issues will still be there.

[Kktjones]

Slinking in to say I don't like Maleficent and I could not possibly care less about her or Lily's story. I know some people like the actress, but I'm not familiar with her and I just don't like anything about her or the character. Sorry :(. I also never watched OUATiW, so I don't care about Ana and Will's story either. The vignettes they were proposing sounded terrible to me and more like something they could include as DVD extras than as actual episodes. Slinks out...

[oncebluethrone]

1 hour ago, Kktjones said:

Slinking in to say I don't like Maleficent and I could not possibly care less about her or Lily's story. I know some people like the actress, but I'm not familiar with her and I just don't like anything about her or the character. Sorry :(. I also never watched OUATiW, so I don't care about Ana and Will's story either. The vignettes they were proposing sounded terrible to me and more like something they could include as DVD extras than as actual episodes. Slinks out...

I agree with you somewhat. While I don't hate Mal/Lily, I don't care whether or not we see them again. As far as Will and Ana go, I saw OUATiW so I know they get a happy ending, but at this point, I don't think its necessary for how they got that happy ending to be shown. I would much rather have episodes dedicated to the mains or ones focusing on side characters, but whose stories are connected to the main plot than a bunch of random disconnected episodes where the focus is completely on side characters. If they do decide to do this sort of thing, it would be best as DVD extras.

[jhlipton]

2 hours ago, oncebluethrone said:

I would much rather have episodes dedicated to the mains or ones focusing on side characters, but whose stories are connected to the main plot than a bunch of random disconnected episodes where the focus is completely on side characters. If they do decide to do this sort of thing, it would be best as DVD extras.

Considering how poorly the mains are done by in a long arc, I think a series of smaller sides might work better for these writers.

[KingOfHearts]

I don't actually think Belle dating another man to Rumple's horror was inherently a bad idea. If played correctly, it would have appeared as cheap drama initially, but later fleshed out to show Belle's evolution as a character. A few major changes needed to happen though. First, her love interest had to be someone other than Will. It needed to be someone who didn't have a confirmed True Love already. Heck, I could see her dating the Sheriff of Nottingham if he had redeemed himself. That would have stuck Rumple where it hurt. It would be good contrast for her to date someone who had legitimately changed, as opposed to someone who only pretended to. Second, it had to be a real relationship that wasn't just a loveless fling. Maybe Rumple could have given them his blessing on his death bed or something, after realizing her new love is the man she wanted him to be.

If Scarlet Beauty was meant to be angst for Rumple, why was it so easy to toss Will aside? There's no point in giving Belle a new flame if there were no consequences and she doesn't even love him that much. All Rumple got were some cheap brownie points for working with her boyfriend to get her heart back.

Edited June 28, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

2 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

All Rumple got were some cheap brownie points for working with her boyfriend to get her heart back.

And then he let Isaac put her into a relationship with himself without  her consent in the AU anyway. So those little brownie points were worth crap in the end. 

Edited June 28, 2017 by Rumsy4

[Shanna Marie]

I'm not all that excited about Graham. He's most interesting for having died just as he was figuring things out and for the shock value of his death -- and even his death was squandered in there being no consequences or fallout from it. If he hadn't died, if he'd stuck around, I think he would have been a lot less popular. He was kind of bland, and bless his heart, but Jamie Dornan is a pretty awful actor. He never stops sounding like he's reading his lines off a cue card. I kind of get the impression that that he was trying for an American accent and not quite getting there, since he never really sounds Irish, but he's not really American, and he always sounds very self-conscious, like he's having to make an effort to very carefully say everything. He never sounds natural. I guess he's attractive, but there's not much "there" there beyond the physical prettiness. The 50 Shades movies seem to be about right for him.

[Rumsy4]

8 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

He was kind of bland, and bless his heart, but Jamie Dornan is a pretty awful actor.

I did like him in Heart of the Lonely Hunter, but I agree. Jamie Dornan was pretty stilled as Graham. 

[Shanna Marie]

3 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

Jamie Dornan was pretty stilled as Graham.

I haven't reached that episode yet in my rewatch, but as I recall, he was a lot less stilted in the flashback as the Huntsman, and his accent seemed a bit more strong and obvious there. That's what makes me wonder if he was trying (and not quite making it) to play Graham as American. I got the same sense from the small bits of dialogue in the 50 Shades trailers, where is he supposedly playing American and he sounded about the same as Graham. Emma doesn't say anything about it maybe being a bit odd that a foreigner is a sheriff in a small American town, so maybe she's not supposed to notice that he's got an accent.

[KingOfHearts]

In one of the script drafts for the Pilot, I thought Emma had asked Graham about his accent. His response was that his family were immigrants.

Edited June 30, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

This all probably belongs in the oft-neglected Recurring Characters thread, but I think Graham's acting actually does make sense given his backstory and knowing his heart was being controlled.  It actually added to the weirdness of the town, so to me, it was note perfect.

[TheGreenKnight]

On ‎6‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 8:02 PM, Shanna Marie said:

He was kind of bland, and bless his heart, but Jamie Dornan is a pretty awful actor.

I'll never forget the flashback of the Queen taking his heart where everything is supposed to be dramatic and I'm too busy laughing at that sound he makes when she squeezes his heart.

[jhlipton]

On 7/3/2017 at 1:11 PM, TheGreenKnight said:

I'll never forget the flashback of the Queen taking his heart where everything is supposed to be dramatic and I'm too busy laughing at that sound he makes when she squeezes his heart.

"Please don't squeeze the Charmin!"  (Yes, I'm old!)