Past Seasons Talk: The Tribe Has Spoken

[Eolivet]

Anybody else notice how many Survivor winners have blue eyes? They have to be dramatically over-represented in Survivor winners versus the rest of the population.

Out of 20 past winners on this season, I count 11 with blue eyes. That's 55% of this season's cast compared to 17% of the U.S. population.

Maybe it's my new HD TV, but it's really noticeable when they're all in the same space together.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

lol Ozzy.  His social game was almost as bad as Russell's, just not as in-your-face rude.

"Let's all agree that I'm awesome, and we can just chill."

[Nashville]

21 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

lol Ozzy.  His social game was almost as bad as Russell's, just not as in-your-face rude.

Ozzy was rarely (if ever) intentionally rude; just frequently oblivious.  😄

[SVNBob]

2 hours ago, Nashville said:

Ozzy was rarely (if ever) intentionally rude; just frequently oblivious.  😄

I think Billy and Cochran would disagree with you.  Unless you file them under the "rare" umbrella.

[enoughcats]

When you can remember multiple "been there, done that " moments, what's a production crew to do?

Here's an idea.

There are multiple Survivors being (or going to be) filmed around the world.

So, all of a sudden, the new American contestants have all done their homework, have watched many, many previous years.  So they get on a plane ride, ride, ride, ride, and wake up, ready for Probst, except it's not Probst and it's a different dude.  And then they see their buffs.  Surprise, surprise, they're playing Suvivor Australia.  And when Probst greets the plane, somewhere else, its all new contestants from Australia.

New puzzles, new challenges, new ways of hiding immunity idols, maybe even making it more difficult to make fire, find food, whatever the Survivor _________ has evolved to. 

 

 

[Otherkate]

Stuck at home with my 10 and 12 year old and am thinking about watching Survivor with them. I've been watching since season 1, but haven't watched any of the seasons more than once. Any recommendations? They discovered some version of Survivor that they play on Roblox, so now they're interested in seeing the actual show. I feel like a season with Rupert or Ozzy might go over well, but I don't know.

Now that they're getting older, I'd love to get them hooked on it so that they can watch new seasons with me and since we're all locked away for the next few weeks, it seems like the perfect time!

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Otherkate said:

Stuck at home with my 10 and 12 year old and am thinking about watching Survivor with them. I've been watching since season 1, but haven't watched any of the seasons more than once. Any recommendations? They discovered some version of Survivor that they play on Roblox, so now they're interested in seeing the actual show. I feel like a season with Rupert or Ozzy might go over well, but I don't know.

Now that they're getting older, I'd love to get them hooked on it so that they can watch new seasons with me and since we're all locked away for the next few weeks, it seems like the perfect time!

I'd recommend Season 7, Pearl Islands. It has big, varied characters (Sandra, Jon, Rupert, Lill, even Osten) who provide lots of drama and humor, the Outcast twist, the dead grandma lie, and they really sold the "shipwrecked" theme with that one, with the raiding the town, and watching their normal clothes get disintegrated over the course of the first few episodes. And (at least to my mind) a quite satisfying conclusion, with the villain getting his comeuppance and a "nontraditional" winner.

[peachmangosteen]

What season is considered the beginning of the 'new school' era?

[AncientNewbie]

5 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

What season is considered the beginning of the 'new school' era?

 

My personal pick is about S23. For me it wasn't night/day but that's seemingly when the current structure of idols, swaps, gimmicks and twists really started. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

What season is considered the beginning of the 'new school' era?

I feel like it's a shifting scale, depending on how much longer the show lasts, but I'd place the end of "old school" at the current halfway point, i.e. Season 20: Heroes vs. Villains. That seems like the capper to that era. Season 21 had the ill-fated "Medallion of Power" and Season 22 introduced Redemption Island, so I'd personally say that was the start of the "new school".

An argument could also be made for after Season 23, because that was the last time (that I recall, at least) that certain returning players (Ozzy, specifically) weren't treated as relics from a bygone era. After that, you started to get that feeling when older players returned that it was kind of a big deal (like [gag] Skupin in Philippines and Tina/Gervase in Blood vs. Water).

[SVNBob]

46 minutes ago, tracyscott76 said:

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

What season is considered the beginning of the 'new school' era?

I feel like it's a shifting scale, depending on how much longer the show lasts,

It also depends on how many "schools" you think there are.  In an earlier post in this very thread, I posited five schools of Survivor, with the most current "New School" starting in season 35.  None of the seasons since then have made me want to change that opinion, yet.

[Eolivet]

Bringing this over from Adam's thread as it's mostly about an old contestant:

I think [Adam] has a little bit of the Spencer Bledsoe ability to perpetually be a less urgent target than someone else.

I've only seen Cagayan once, and it's one of my least favorite seasons. But I don't remember Spencer playing both sides like Adam's done this season? I thought Spencer was the one who was double-crossed ("Kass: Zero chance of winning this game") and largely saved himself with late game immunities?

My argument that Adam's days are numbered is based on how he blew up his spot on Sele with both sides of the group (and is now on a new tribe with someone who's happy to explain his past actions). I don't recall Spencer doing the same thing on Cagayan: he seemed to be in the perpetual minority alliance, and fought to save himself (I remember Woo and the clue) but if I recall, he didn't make waves like Adam's done this season, which was how Spencer was able to escape notice.

You can slip under the radar, but you can't make waves while doing so.

[Hera]

I wasn't saying that Spencer and Adam have the same or even similar styles of gameplay. What I think they have in common is an ability to be (or appear) less threatening/less of a liability/less of a risk to keep around than at least one other person—Spencer was nearly a pre-merge boot on the Brains tribe in Cagayan before Kass and Tasha decided to keep him and vote out J'Tia. Then later on, Tony and Woo decided to flip on their alliance for one vote in order to keep him over Jefra. He did it again in Cambodia, where he was saved over Shirin on his original tribe and then over Woo on his third tribe. Adam was a target at the merge the first time he played, and on this season, his gameplay has seemed to alienate and worry a lot of people, but the majority has always decided there were bigger fish to fry.

It's a personal quality rather than a game strategy and I don't know how much of it is something either one of them is able to control consciously.

[Eolivet]

Because I'm sure you were all dying to know, the nearest I can tell from squinting at cast photos, a blue-eyed finalist has defeated all non-blue-eyed finalists to become a Survivor winner a little over a quarter of the time (10 of 39 times).

(That is to say, a blue-eyed finalist has won against one or two finalists without blue eyes. If a blue-eyed finalist beat another blue-eyed finalist, they were not counted).

But there sure have been a lot of blue-eyed finalists, even if they haven't become blue-eyed winners. My next project is to determine/estimate what percentage of finalists have had blue eyes, because I clearly have nothing better to do with my time.

[kassandra8286]

13 hours ago, Eolivet said:

the nearest I can tell from squinting at cast photos,

It's hard, isn't it? You really need the sun shining into their face to know for sure. Especially those who have hazel or light brown or greenish or dark blue eyes. I would never have guessed Adam has blue eyes without seeing him in action in the episode.

Case in point: I did a tally of my own* and came up with 7 times that a blue-eyed finalist beat all non-blue-eyed finalists. So there's clearly some subjectivity happening, lol.

It was interesting that more than half (20) of the winners have been blue/green-eyed though. Although given that Survivor has a pretty poor track record with POC's even being cast, let alone advancing far in the game, maybe not so surprising.

*Even though I should be working, when any kind of geeky Survivor statistical question is raised I'm like the vampire who has to stop and count grains of rice thrown on the ground, I can't help myself.)

[Eolivet]

I just recounted and had a lot of uncertain answers. At the risk of inviting ridicule, here are my definites and unsures:

Definite:

Borneo

All Stars

Guatemala

Kaoh Rong

Unsure:

Micronesia (Amanda's eyes change color in photos)

Tocantins (so do JT's)

South Pacific (so do Coach's)

Blood vs Water 1 (I don't think Monica has blue eyes?)

One World (this was my least likely, because Chelsea does have the coloring, but she squints too much)

Season 39 (so does Dean)

 

So, my margin of error is basically +/- 6.

[kassandra8286]

52 minutes ago, Eolivet said:

Definite:

Borneo

All Stars

Guatemala

Kaoh Rong

Unsure:

Micronesia (Amanda's eyes change color in photos)

Tocantins (so do JT's)

South Pacific (so do Coach's)

Blood vs Water 1 (I don't think Monica has blue eyes?)

One World (this was my least likely, because Chelsea does have the coloring, but she squints too much)

Season 39 (so does Dean)

I agree with your Definites.

For your Unsures:

• Amanda's eyes are definitely light-colored/blue/green (not brown).
• I had JT as brown but they could be light brown or green or hazel. The more I look the less sure I am, lol. 
• Coach's eyes are definitely brown.
• I have Monica with brown eyes but they're a greenish-brown. 
• Chelsea's eyes look green to me. Hard to tell 'cause she's always wearing that damn cap, lol. 
• Dean is a tough one but I believe his eyes are light brown.

So my 7 are Borneo, All Stars, Guatemala, South Pacific, BvW, Kaoh Rong, and Island of Idols. I'll throw Tocantins in there too to make it 8. 🙂

Edited March 23, 2020 by kassandra8286
forgot South Pacific

[LadyChatts]

Since the talk of challenges comes up every week, especially since newer challenges are pretty much a puzzle (or knocking down a puzzle with balls), I was observing a couple of challenges from Survivor China (specially, the challenge at the merge, and the RC and IC directly after that).  

The merge IC was a memory challenge, which involved remembering things from the merge feast (and since this was in China, not Fiji, the merge feast was somewhere else besides camp, and had entertainment provided by Chinese acrobats and dancers).  The RC in the following episode were teams of two who had to fill up the opposing teams boat with buckets of water and sinking it, with one of those team members in it.  The IC was sitting on a barrel filled with water, and had to sit on it as water leaked out, causing it to become unstable (the barrels which formed a Chinese dragon).  May not sound like the most exciting challenges but sure beats seeing puzzle after puzzle.

Also worth noting that when it came to HII, Jean-Roberte wasn't even sure they were out there, until he and his team that won the RC received the final clue to where it was (yeah, remember when they got multiple clues to the idol at camp, and couldn't find it with just one?)  This has become my Wednesday tradition-watch a crappy episode of the new season of Survivor, then binge watch past episodes to when the show was good.

[Nashville]

 

On 3/23/2020 at 11:19 AM, Eolivet said:

So, my margin of error is basically +/- 6.

Take folks with “changeling” eyes into account, and you may actually be doing better than that.

[Lamb18]

I am watching Heroes Vs. Villains and am at the merge episode. I think J.T. is stupider than Erik (just watched his season).  Erik had better reason to trust Natalie than J.T. to trust Russell. He must have watched Russell's first season.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Lamb18 said:

I am watching Heroes Vs. Villains and am at the merge episode. I think J.T. is stupider than Erik (just watched his season).  Erik had better reason to trust Natalie than J.T. to trust Russell. He must have watched Russell's first season.

Russell's first season was right before Heroes vs. Villains. I don't believe it had aired yet when they were filming HvV, so no one knew anything about Russell, other than that he was a "Villain" for some reason. But given that the likes of Danielle were also assigned to the Villains tribe, that wasn't very informative.

I mean, giving Russell the idol still wasn't the smartest thing JT could have done, but I think Erik giving up immunity at final 5 when he knew the others wanted to vote him out, just for some kind of half-assed "redemption" was a pretty clueless move.

[simplyme]

So my family just finished watching (or rewatching in some cases) the first 10 seasons. The interesting thing for me is how often people talk about how great Survivor was when it was new, but honestly? The first 10 seasons are just as uneven in quality as the 30s for me.

S1 (Borneo) is, of course, groundbreaking, and also interesting in its own right.

S2 (Australia) is good. Good story arc, interesting characters, and some very memorable occurrences.

S3 (Africa) is honestly only memorable to me for a few players and the wildlife, scenery, and location, but that location does a LOT for it. I mean a LOT. I categorize it as a win.

S4 (Marquesas) was god awful, even with both Kathy and Boston Rob. Talk about boring.

S5 (Thailand) felt like the Death March of Bataan to watch. Hideously unlikeable cast and insanely boring.

S6 (Amazon) was okay. Started slow and a bit annoying, got better. Some decent strategy, some fun come-uppences.

S7 (Pearl Islands) was awesome. Fun premise, memorable cast members, interesting twists and backstabs.

S8 (All Stars) was painful to watch both on its first run and 16 years later on rewatch. Watching people repeatedly make moves against their own best interests (and then get pissed when they got voted out) was not fun or interesting then or now.

S9 (Vanuatu) was better than I remembered, but mostly memorable only for a few characters.

S10 (Palau) started great as Ulong lost and lost and lost and we got caught up wondering what would happen to the dwindling tribe that couldn't. Then it all became Koror and the focus switched to the personalities there, and we got to watch increasing amounts of Tom being a self-righteous, manipulative bastard and Katie being a whiny, manipulative bitch. By the end, we might have taken a meteor hitting FTC. So lets call Palau either a draw (or a definite win for masochists).

[fishcakes]

I love all of those seasons with the exception of Vanuatu, which was the worst season overall until Nicaragua. And of course now, almost every season makes a credible effort at taking the title. But at the time, I remember thinking there was a huge drop-off in quality starting with the Africa season, and rewatching now, I don't know why I felt that way. I guess because I had no idea that Dan Foley was waiting in the wings to Explain Things To Me Like I Was Four.

[peachmangosteen]

The cast of The Nanny is going to do a virtual table read of the pilot and Jonathan Penner is participating! It's going to be posted on the Sony Pictures youtube and April 6th.

[LadyChatts]

I love that for every thing we can disagree on here, the one thing that everyone seems to universally agree on is how bad of a season Thailand was.  I re watched it awhile back, and if it’s possible for a season to be even worse than you remembered, Thailand was it.  Even after Worlds Apart, Nicaragua, EOE, IOI, HvHvH, Redemption Island, and some other seasons that deserve to buried in the desert with the old ET Atari games and forgotten about, Thailand still remains a a bottom 5/10season.

[fishcakes]

9 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

I love that for every thing we can disagree on here, the one thing that everyone seems to universally agree on is how bad of a season Thailand was.

I liked Thailand. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Guest]

I remember being somewhat frustrated that Brian seemed to be marching unopposed to victory, but I didn't hate Thailand. It wasn't even that I particularly disliked Brian, I just found it kind of predictable and a letdown after Marquesas.

[SVNBob]

On 3/31/2020 at 4:07 PM, Lamb18 said:

I am watching Heroes Vs. Villains and am at the merge episode. I think J.T. is stupider than Erik (just watched his season).  Erik had better reason to trust Natalie than J.T. to trust Russell. He must have watched Russell's first season.

Again, I'll just leave this here.

[LadyChatts]

On 4/2/2020 at 12:14 PM, fishcakes said:

I liked Thailand. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

On 4/2/2020 at 12:37 PM, tracyscott76 said:

I remember being somewhat frustrated that Brian seemed to be marching unopposed to victory, but I didn't hate Thailand. It wasn't even that I particularly disliked Brian, I just found it kind of predictable and a letdown after Marquesas.

I knew this day would come lol Brian's probably one of the worst people to win this series, if I'm judging him outside of the game.  Inside the game, he was a decent winner, and probably one of the only ones who deserved to win that season.  

I will say, when it comes to liking unpopular seasons, I actually liked Fiji on re-watch.  I wouldn't call it a great season, but I don't think it's terrible, either.  In fact, some of the people I remember loathing for years I actually didn't find too bad.  And on the flip side, people I remember liking I couldn't stand on re-watch.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

 

I knew this day would come lol Brian's probably one of the worst people to win this series, if I'm judging him outside of the game.  Inside the game, he was a decent winner, and probably one of the only ones who deserved to win that season.  

I will say, when it comes to liking unpopular seasons, I actually liked Fiji on re-watch.  I wouldn't call it a great season, but I don't think it's terrible, either.  In fact, some of the people I remember loathing for years I actually didn't find too bad.  And on the flip side, people I remember liking I couldn't stand on re-watch.

Well yeah, Brian out of the game is a different thing XD

I actually enjoyed Fiji quite a bit, even on first watch. The first few episodes were rough because they did a have/have-not thing and the have-nots (surprise!) kept losing. But then they did the tribe swap and the have tribe became most of the likable people, and the have-not tribe was the Four Horsemen, Rocky, and Lisi (and poor Anthony). And from that point, it became rather awesome, in my view. The Four Horsemen were so sure of themselves, yet so impotent, they became increasingly hilarious rather than antagonistic, and watching Earl, Yau-Man, Michelle, Cassandra, and Boo go about their business was fun. Even the b.s. loss of Michelle set up the amazing episode that came after.

One thing I remember about that season from a production standpoint was that the "Previously on..." segment in the finale did a masterful job of showing how the bad first few weeks were actually essential to setting up the alliances and relationships that came into play for the rest of the season.

tl;dr = Fiji rocks.

[LadyChatts]

3 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

Well yeah, Brian out of the game is a different thing XD

I actually enjoyed Fiji quite a bit, even on first watch. The first few episodes were rough because they did a have/have-not thing and the have-nots (surprise!) kept losing. But then they did the tribe swap and the have tribe became most of the likable people, and the have-not tribe was the Four Horsemen, Rocky, and Lisi (and poor Anthony). And from that point, it became rather awesome, in my view. The Four Horsemen were so sure of themselves, yet so impotent, they became increasingly hilarious rather than antagonistic, and watching Earl, Yau-Man, Michelle, Cassandra, and Boo go about their business was fun. Even the b.s. loss of Michelle set up the amazing episode that came after.

One thing I remember about that season from a production standpoint was that the "Previously on..." segment in the finale did a masterful job of showing how the bad first few weeks were actually essential to setting up the alliances and relationships that came into play for the rest of the season.

tl;dr = Fiji rocks.

The only one of the four horsemen I found unbearable was Mookie.  I didn't mind Alex or Edguardo, I didn't even mind Dreamz.  Honestly, I know there was so much controversy over him not keeping his word to Yau-Man after Yau gave him the car, but it's the game.  The game is about double crossing, backstabbing, and lying.  In reality, I'm surprised Yau-Man didn't get in any trouble since I felt like that goes against the part of the contract for offering someone something in return from the game (or maybe that only applies to sharing the money?)  Anyone would have been crazy to take Yau-Man to the end.  I loved the guy, don't get me wrong, but he would have won hands down.  I am disappointed that he's only returned once, and that his time in the first FvsF was short lived.

The Moto tribe originally was unbearable.  Dreamz, Cassandra, and Boo were the only likable ones there.  I didn't think Alex or Edgardo were bad; at least they stood up for Dreamz and Cassandra and didn't like how Stacy and Lisi were treating them.  I forgot how much I disliked Lisi,  You can tell by watching this season how heavily stacked it is with recruits (I think all but one weren't traditional applicants).  I sometimes think the haves/have nots and the tribes being assembled by Sylvia from the start might have hurt the season, but overall I think it was an uninspiring cast.  Obviously different tribe make ups mean different results, but I just think most of the cast was bleh.  I try to envision how this season would have gone had they done their original theme, which was dividing them up by race.  At least poor Anthony would have been spared Rocky's rage.  I don't like to play armchair psychologist, but Rocky is an early example of someone who probably shouldn't have passed the psych test.  A few more days out there and I think he would have truly lost it.

I want to say, too, how much more I enjoyed Fiji's beauty in the first season it was held there, versus now.  Not to say it isn't a beautiful location, but something about that first season just seemed so much different.  And again, I really loved how they incorporated some of the local flavor into challenges (like the RC where they had to learn a dance routine-I remember Earl commenting on Boo doing his white boy moves).  I also loved how Yau-Man became a surprising hero in some of the challenges.  I really wish Earl could have played this season.  He is just genuinely a likable guy and was a great winner.

Also agree about Michelle, that was one of the worst twists ever.  I don't know if strategizing  would have changed anything, but she didn't even get a shot.   

[AncientNewbie]

Part of our isolation has, weirdly, been watching the first ep of every season my partner didn’t watch before marriage to me (and the 07-08? WGA strike) just so the names and faces from history fit more into place. Those first few seasons were really presented as Clothed & Afraid struggles against nature. 

We’re watching the whole of Cook Islands because of the number of big Survivor names that came from it. Oddly, as much as Yul is hailed as Old School, it feels a lot more like a more recent (not in a bad way) season. I get the whole HII evolving reason for the distinction, but the prevalence of food and shelter made this seem more like the current version where social survival is the focus. 

[Iris987]

On 4/3/2020 at 2:44 AM, fishcakes said:

I liked Thailand. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I LOVED Thailand. I can barely remember anyone from the season and seem to remember some gross sexual assault sleep grinding but that season was must see for me and my friends. That was the only time I've ever had viewing parties for a TV show and one of my friends cancelled a date with a guy she'd been after for a year because the merge episode was on. I mean, we were hooked. I was surprised to read it is considered to be the worst. I think they were all assholes but I still loved it. Amazon was good too. Mainly for Matt and his slow descent into madness. And watching him sharpen his bayonet knife for hours while the other tribemates tried to work out a polite way to ask what the hell he was doing.

[Lantern7]

Here's what popped up as Memories in my Facebook from two years ago:

Quote

"Swah-vey." STFU, Random Alpha Dude.

I don't remember the name. He did impact me again the same night.

Quote

I'm thinking Alpha Male Model hits on 17 while playing blackjack.

There were a few other thoughts, but I reckon this was the best one:
 

Quote

"We won a lot together. Respect for that. But socially, you don't know what you're doing. Hope you stop saying ‘Aie’ so much. I hope you start listening to people. Oh, yeah, and finally . . . somebody had to say it. I'll say it: Stop rapping. You're trash. [starts to fold vote] At rapping. You're garbage at rapping. You can't rap. You have no ["marks"? I don't have closed captioning] [folds the vote, pops it back open] Put the mic down, bro.Put the pen down, bro. Use an eraser."

-Wendell Holland, Survivor #InstantClassicQuote

ETA: He said “bars.”

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by Lantern7

[loki567]

I still maintain that Chris Noble was the only entertaining character from Ghost Island i.e. the season so bad that it got the entire casting department fired. 

[AncientNewbie]

On 4/10/2020 at 7:31 AM, Iris987 said:

Amazon was good too. Mainly for Matt

We are watching that now and usually I do spoiler-laden commentary through the whole thing but I didn't want to tell about how he's F2 after so much time is spent on his descent into madness. His arc is still some of the best narrative editing I've watched in a show, much thanks to Rob's narration.

[simplyme]

So the Simply family just finished watching Guatemala, and while bored and looking at information on Guatemala castaways, I came across this little gem.

Noura Salman (S39, Island of the Idols) is apparently an ex-girlfriend of Guatemala's Jamie Newton (S11).

Judd mentions it here at the end of this interview. (It was a Winners at War Retrotspective on Danni Boatwright conducted with S11 member Judd with wife Kristin saying stuff from off-screen):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JHQv_zajAU&t=40m19s

 

 

[Iris987]

14 hours ago, AncientNewbie said:

We are watching that now and usually I do spoiler-laden commentary through the whole thing but I didn't want to tell about how he's F2 after so much time is spent on his descent into madness. His arc is still some of the best narrative editing I've watched in a show, much thanks to Rob's narration.

I remember Amazon much more than Thailand because of Matt. He was extremely intelligent and was obviously very strong but it was his strategy of terrifying his way into the final 2 that sticks with me. Look out for his chat in the fishing boat with a player (can't remember who) about strategy. An old friend and I still randomly text his speech to each other when we're bored. That whole "we're a chain. Say it. We're a chain. You're on a need to know basis. Talking stops now" while the other guy tried not to blink was so funny. 

I haven't religiously watched since Caramoan although I always tune in if any episodes get a lot of press for bad behavior and/or outing of transgendered cast mates so the modern game play and idol searches are a bit beyond me but I'd forgotten how much I loved the early seasons. Some of them are on free to air in Australia now but they've just randomly picked the ones and only a few from season 1-15. They do have Amazon though so maybe I'll go back now that we're all stuck at home.

[AncientNewbie]

Coming back to old seasons during this time, Amazon really grew in my estimation over where I had ranked it before. I'm sure many have rehashed it, so I'm not doing to do a dissertation, but someone smarter than me probably could. It's funny to me that, following on possibly the most personally unlikable winner in the previous season who still got a fairly clean edit for behaving in game, this game featured a lot of players who were presented in a more realistic fashion. Butch was the loyal dad and teacher who managed to create a bonfire at camp, excuse me, of camp, and denied how his hoard of firewood could have caused it. Jenna and Heidi were intensely loyal and very competitive, but their uncharitable views toward other women were frequently aired. Rob, somehow, even though there were schemers and alliances from day one in this game, somehow felt original, maybe because it was a nice young boy with a baby face who unleashed like the mean girls in tribal. Christy was an inspiration and competent competitor until she let aligning with people that hurt her get in the way of advancing. Going back further, even sexist Roger was helpful in getting light so Christy was involved at night and Joanna, even though she wouldn't leave Jesus alone for a minute, was a camp stalwart and competitor.

Maybe it's what production had to work with, when the dominant alliance put on the brakes and lines got fairly set after Roger, so we get more of the winner whining and Matt's strangeness. But it really worked for me as a season because I didn't have a clear cut "on the side of angels and apple pie" character. A somewhat self-involved college student barely out of her teens with a sick mother at home is a real person. She didn't get a soft-focus Adam Klein edit, but was a sometimes obnoxious player who was positioned to make solid moves where even when she was safe, her allies were filling the jury box. 

This is also one of the few seasons were I think the twist really did reshape the whole game. If these same players played a standard (to that point) two random tribes, the interpersonal dynamics that led to the merged tribe are out the window and we get a much more standard (and less interesting to me) version of the game.

[fishcakes]

10 hours ago, Iris987 said:

Look out for his chat in the fishing boat with a player (can't remember who) about strategy. An old friend and I still randomly text his speech to each other when we're bored. That whole "we're a chain. Say it. We're a chain. You're on a need to know basis. Talking stops now" while the other guy tried not to blink was so funny. 

I loved that too. That was Butch, robotically repeating, "we're a chain." Even if I didn't remember that scene specifically, I would know it was Butch because as one hilarious TWoP poster observed, Butch spent more time in a rowboat than the Ty-D-Bol man.

[Iris987]

Butch! That's it. Long live Butch and his boat terrors. I had to google Ty-D-Bol, though. That ad didn't make it across the pond.

Reflecting on these past seasons have reminded me of what a sucker I used to be for Survivor. Every other reality show I've seen I can see how manipulative the editing is, I don't fall for the bad guy edit because I know how deceptive it is but with Survivor I go for it every time. I hate who they want me to hate and support who they want me to support. The exception for that is Boston Rob. I think I'm meant to like him now but I've disliked him from inception. I'm so glad I had long lost interest in watching a full season by the time he won.

[kstar821]

On 4/2/2020 at 12:14 PM, fishcakes said:

I liked Thailand. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Me, too!  I'm rewatching it now because quarantine.  😂

So many good characters!

I will say that, among other things, the location changes in the early seasons are a real draw.  Now they are lazy and just stay in Fiji.  Seeing all the Thai culture, the animals in Africa, the Amazon rainforest, etc is really appealing!  

[fishcakes]

2 hours ago, kstar821 said:

I will say that, among other things, the location changes in the early seasons are a real draw.  Now they are lazy and just stay in Fiji.  Seeing all the Thai culture, the animals in Africa, the Amazon rainforest, etc is really appealing!

I miss the country-specific tasks they had to do in the early seasons. The boomerang throw challenge in Outback, the blood drinking in Africa, the fafaru eating in Marquesas. Oh, and the rewards too, as when they had the Thai Red Berets or that one guy in Vanuatu stay with the tribe for a day or two and teach them how to forage plants and improve their shelters. Even in the original Fiji season, each tribe had to perform a traditional dance with Fijian judges, but I guess now we're just supposed to pretend they're not always filming in the same place, so they've done away with anything related to local culture.

[Lantern7]

Train of thought:

• Today is the anniversary of Jackie Robinson’s first game, breaking baseball’s color barrier
• On April 15, teams commemorate the anniversary by giving every player the uniform number 42 (which was retired throughout the majors in 1997)
• I realize that it was ten years ago when I came to Chicago for a comic book convention, and I immediately set off to Wrigley Field
• Afterward, I met a lady who posted on the TWoP forums. I had dinner with her family and watched Survivor 

And that’s where I remember tonight is the ten-year anniversary of us fans watching JT give Russell Hantz an immunity idol. With a long letter attached to it.

I don’t think anyone left in S40 will do anything remotely stupid like JT in tonight’s episode . . . but, hey, you never know.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Lantern7

[LadyChatts]

Stupid moments don't feel the same like they use to.  Not to say there still isn't a lack of them, but there seemed to be something more innocent and genuine about stupidity of Survivors past.  James getting voted out with 2 idols in his pocket, Erik giving up immunity (and getting voted out), Tyson getting himself voted out, JT and all his moronic moves.  Maybe because blindsides were actual blindsides, or people were thinking about the strategy and what was better for their own game vs doing it for a big move.

BTW, can I just say again how much I miss the old music?  I don't know what the hell they are playing nowadays, but I feel like I'm watching some cheap made for TV romance movie.  And hearing Jeff give a shout out to Fiji Airlines last night also reminded me of the days when Target, Home Depot, and Mountain Dew were front and center.

Edited April 17, 2020 by LadyChatts

[simplyme]

On 4/15/2020 at 6:28 PM, Lantern7 said:

Train of thought:

• Today is the anniversary of Jackie Robinson’s first game, breaking baseball’s color barrier

What? That wasn't Babe Ruth?*

*Explanation: https://sports.yahoo.com/jeopardy-contestant-thinks-babe-ruth-broke-baseballs-color-barrier-005708988.html

[LadyChatts]

So as I'm making my way through Survivor Fiji (got through Edgardo's boot, aka one of the best blindsides ever, and Mookie's boot episode).  A few things struck me as to again how different the older seasons are compared to the newer ones, including some things we've been talking about this past week.

First, when it came to Edgardo's blindside, I liked that there was actual strategy involved.  Alex was the target until Mookie gave him the HII, and Dreamz blabbed to the other side.  He said to vote Mookie.  The other side, thinking either Dreamz was lying to them, or that Mookie/Alex/Edgardo were lying to him, switched to Edgardo.  Edgardo's side also decided to vote Cassandra, as they didn't think her side would see that coming, and since she was kind of in the middle of the group, it'd have more impact.  So it was nice to see actual strategy go into a blindside, rather than 'we're just going to blindside someone.'

The next episode after that saw Alex and Mookie do what must have been a Survivor first, and went through Yau-Man's bag thinking (correctly) that he had the other HII.  Their plan was to blow it up at TC, thinking that the others wouldn't trust him or might scatter to change their vote and, to paraphrase, 'there's nothing he'd be able to, we'd have to vote, no time for strategy.'  In other words, there wouldn't be getting out of your seat and whispering.  Their plan blew up when they realized Stacy and Cassandra were hiding in the bushes and thought they overheard everything, so they went to confront Yau-Man about his idol.  Needless to say it didn't go as planned.  The second thing was that the castaways were surprised and almost disgusted that Alex and Mookie went through Yau-Man's bag.  Even Jeff at TC that night seemed surprised and called the move snake like. 

Oh, how far we've come.  

[fishcakes]

Ethan tweeted photos of Colby, Jenna Morasca, Brian Heidik (guess he's not completely on the outs), and JT wearing Old School Survivor tees. It took me a minute to recognize JT. I think he's sitting in a barber chair, but something about the way he's posed made me at first think it was a wheelchair.

Edited April 19, 2020 by fishcakes

[LadyChatts]

3 hours ago, fishcakes said:

Ethan tweeted photos of Colby, Jenna Morasca, Brian Heidik (guess he's not completely on the outs), and JT wearing Old School Survivor tees. It took me a minute to recognize JT. I think he's sitting in a barber chair, but something about the way he's posed made me at first think it was a wheelchair.

I didn’t even recognize JT or Colby at first.  Dare I say Brian doesn’t look that much different?  I think this is the first time I’ve seen him since the Thailand finale.

I like the t-shirts.  Some people are thinking they will do an old school/new school themed season with past players after the talk this season about that divide, but I have my doubts.  And frankly, I don’t trust this show to cast true new school.  Most of heir players will probably still be in the teen seasons and upwards.

[Otherkate]

Thank you for your recommendations of which season to start out with to watch for the first time with my two daughters. They are LOVING Pearl Islands and are clearly turning into Survivor fans. 20 minutes into the first episode, my older daughter said she thinks Sandra is going to win. In general, they are both big Sandra fans. It's been so long since I watched this season of Survivor, that I forgot how Sandra was in her first season - it's been great to watch.

I'm afraid we're going to burn through pretty quickly - any suggestions for the next season? I was thinking Cook Islands because of Ozzzy or Palau because I think they will like Stephanie. I honestly can't remember Rob's first season all that well, but feel like it's important for them to meet good old Boston Rob, too.