Past Seasons Talk: The Tribe Has Spoken

[fishcakes]

From the Hannah thread:

2 hours ago, gator12 said:

Speaking of flippers, has any perceive flippers ever won the game?

Arguably, Tina Wesson back in season 2. She had a day one alliance with Kel and Marilyn and voted them out first and second. But she also said she had a day one alliance with Colby, who she went all the way to end with, so I'm not sure that's flipping so much as it is that she had two competing alliances and chose one over the other. Also no one on the jury cared about Kel and Marilyn.

Vecepia in Marquesas flipped on pretty much everyone at one point or another and then would sometimes flop back to them later. Her game was underrated.

Jenna Morasca flipped on Deena and Cesternino in Amazon (of course Cesternino was also a big-time flipper, so no foul on that one).

Earl in Fiji, technically? He voted out Yau Man, but the alternative was to force a tie.

Parvati in Micronesia. James is probably still mad and talking about apples.

Kim in One World, maybe. But I think she's more like Tina in that she had multiple competing alliances and chose the one that was best for her.

Some people consider Tony in Cagayan a flipper because he voted out allies, but since he never changed alliances, I don't think I do. And his alliance mates were all dumb enough to believe him every time he swore he'd never do it again and then stay with him, so even if he were a flipper, they deserved it.

Natalie in San Juan Del Sur. Flipped on Baylor to keep Jaclyn so she'd have a better chance of getting Keith out before the finals.

I think that's everyone, although there are a few seasons that I've only seen once and don't remember all that well, so there might be a few more. But I like this question because it reminds me how wrong Disgusting Dan Foley was with constant refrain of, "Flippers. Never. Win."

Edited December 20, 2016 by fishcakes

[KimberStormer]

1 hour ago, gator12 said:

Speaking of flippers, has any perceive flippers ever won the game?

I think "perceived" is the key word here.  A lot of people in some sense "flip" on their allies but it's not seen that way really, like Kim kinda-sorta flipped on the NuSalani and also on Alicia, but it came across as more like a 'reveal' of her true alliance with Chelsea and Sabrina.  Lots of people like Denise, Natalie Anderson, Michele, Danni "flipped" if you like several times post-merge but it was after their original alliances were already decimated so they were more like lone wolves and the betrayal didn't sting therefore.

But I think Parvati was most certainly perceived as a flipper, and, unlike Tony or Kim or JT, wasn't even up against someone who had flipped right along with her every step of the way.  James and Ozzy were salty, but she owned her flipping, had great social game and that indefinable air of "leader" once she emerged from the Ozzy/James umbrella.  It was close, though!  Vecepia, I believe, also was a known flipper; although I've never seen Marquesas.

I think the way to flip and win is to: a) have a small group, a "trust cluster" if you will, who flip with you, so it's more like an internal coup or creation of a new hybrid alliance rather than a Cochran-like move from 6th place to 6th place in existing alliances, and take that trust cluster to the end with you so you share the blame, or b) be a late addition to alliances so everyone kind of feels you're not really a part of it, and knows they would have done the same to you later on.  Important note to Survivor alliances: vote out your lone wolves!  Chris, Danni, Fabio, Denise, Natalie, Mike, Michele: if a lone wolf gets to the end he or she wins, and it's only becoming more true!

Edited December 20, 2016 by KimberStormer

[Ms Blue Jay]

Ugh, I guess I've been posting in the wrong topics.

I posted about how in Season 28: Cagayan, Tony flipped on LJ and Trish, and everyone knew it, and he still won.

Also, I want @gator12 to watch Season 19: Samoa and judge for him/herself :)  

I think Adam was a lone wolf too.

Edited December 23, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 12/18/2016 at 1:43 AM, LadyChatts said:

Adam, I admit I liked a lot more on re-watch too.  He was obnoxious, but in a goofy way.  He had an amazing smile.  Candice I didn't get the appeal with then, and I can't believe she's been invited back/considered for a return as many times as she has.  

Adam from Cook Islands is gorgeous and looks like Josh Holloway.  Candice is beautiful, but her 'appeal' as a TV personality is kind of nonexistent.  In Heroes vs. Villains I'm not sure if this was purposeful, but she was so invisible, and/or boring, and/or a wimp.

[le bordel chaud]

I'm in the minority but I hated this season. It's in my bottom 10. I found almost everyone unlikable, but Adam most of all. And I had a feeling he was going to win after Week 3 which didn't help when he actually did. I also found there to be an abundance of bad gameplay.. to an astonishing degree at times. This season was a struggle to get through for me.

And Kaoh Rong is a Top 10 season for me. It's crazy how opinions differ. But Micronesia, HvV, and Pearl Islands are my Top 3.

[peachmangosteen]

9 hours ago, delicatecutter said:

And Kaoh Rong is a Top 10 season for me. 

I like BBB2 too, but it might be entirely because my fave won lol! And because I actually predicted that she would early on, which I never do.

But honestly I like seasons where there are villains to root against/people to hate.

Edited December 23, 2016 by peachmangosteen

[Ms Blue Jay]

I loved Kaoh Rong - hated the winner.  I was shocked to read that you wrote "BBB2".  LOL.  I completely forgot that was the theme of the season.  But yeah, I think it'd be in my top 10, definitely top 15.

[LadyChatts]

It's funny that, while I like this past season more than BBB2, the things I love and hate about them are virtually the same.  Both had winners I didn't like, with my favorites finishing right behind them.  Both took until the merge to really get going in terms of game play (imo), and had really boring first halfs.  However, I think M Vs GX had a more likable cast, and there were some exciting pre merge moves, in an otherwise boring pre merge phase.  I might have liked KR better had it had a different outcome, and of course, not had the ugly brotherhood of tattoos among the cast.

though I do wonder if Scot would have been more likable without Jason.  Jeff seemed to allude to that in interviews.  Of course take out Jason and Scot and they could have cast two others that were just as bad. 

Quote

Adam from Cook Islands is gorgeous and looks like Josh Holloway.  Candice is beautiful, but her 'appeal' as a TV personality is kind of nonexistent.  In Heroes vs. Villains I'm not sure if this was purposeful, but she was so invisible, and/or boring, and/or a wimp.

I love his smile.  As I mentioned, Cook Islands still ranks as a top season for me, even if I feel a little differently about it now.  I think it was one of those real time reactions when the Aitu 4, hopelessly outnumbered, kept beating the incompetent and arrogant Raro bunch that was twice as big.  Watching it again and knowing it's coming just isn't the same, even if watching Raro crash and burn horribly never gets old. 

The only time I can say I liked Candice was during BvsW, but anyone who flips Brad Culpepper the bird and tells him to f-off is my kind of Survivor contestant.  She was so whiny during CI. 

Edited December 23, 2016 by LadyChatts

[peachmangosteen]

I wonder how I would feel about Cook Islands if I watched it now. I loved it while it aired because, like you said @LadyChatts, it was such a great experience to watch the Aitu 4 clobber the Raro people. I just loved the Aitu 4 as a group because of the whole underdog thing, but I actually hated Ozzy and I never loved Yul, so I feel like if I watched now I wouldn't enjoy it nearly as much.

Edited December 23, 2016 by peachmangosteen

[Lantern7]

Bad News/Worse News. Bad news: Funny115 goes with Dan's first few days. Worse news: Apparently, Mario is going to be writing about that oaf a lot.

[enlightenedbum]

He's always loved sexist assholes.

[fishcakes]

Normally I love Funny115, but I got as far as the picture of Dan in his manties and had to close the browser window.

[LadyChatts]

Dan in his manties was something I had successfully blocked from memory.  It was even more terrifying than I remembered.

[Lantern7]

4 hours ago, enlightenedbum said:

He's always loved sexist assholes.

When I saw that sentence in my New Content page, I immediately thought you were referring to Probst. With Mario, he probably gravitates towards the pantloads so he can dump all over them. His takedown of Russell in "Volume 2" took up three pages/

[KimberStormer]

All of the supposedly funny pages this guy makes are full of references to how women are boring and stupid and play Survivor bad, except for special women who "aren't like other girls" that Mario decides to like (Sandra, maybe Courtney Yates, I can't think of any others).  He listed Parvati as an example of a boring terrible player that nobody wants to see, as I recall.  I haven't even looked at this new batch, but I feel 100% sure he has thrown some snide remarks about boring overrated Kim and her easy season.

Like I say, they're the Chronicles of Narnia of Survivor.  Promising something fun, but actually poorly-disguised ideological tracts.

[SVNBob]

37 minutes ago, KimberStormer said:

All of the supposedly funny pages this guy makes are full of references to how women are boring and stupid and play Survivor bad, except for special women who "aren't like other girls" that Mario decides to like (Sandra, maybe Courtney Yates, I can't think of any others).  [snip] haven't even looked at this new batch, but I feel 100% sure he has thrown some snide remarks about boring overrated Kim and her easy season.

Like I say, they're the Chronicles of Narnia of Survivor.  Promising something fun, but actually poorly-disguised ideological tracts.

I don't want to invalidate your opinions and feelings, but I do want to point out a couple things.  First, the Funny115 is an editorial piece, which means it is inherently biased to the author's opinion.  Has been from the beginning.  And second, it's about humor (both in content being talked about, and the way it's presented), which also varies from person to person.  So not liking that site because of the opinions presented and the way they are done so is fine, as is liking it for those reasons, or any mix between those extremes.

That said, in regards to Kim, Mario's actually only mentioned her a couple times so far; once per One World entry.  And I don't think he's had anything bad or snide to say yet.  The first mention was in Colton's entry when she finally kicked him out of the woman's tribe for being so damned needy, even after being handed the idol.  And the second was in an entry about the -Zans, where Mario said that she was

Quote

running the game like a god damn level boss

Not exactly calling her boring or the season easy, but fully acknowledging she had that season on lock.  But there are still several entries marked for One World, so things could change by the end.

[KimberStormer]

Yeah, I don't especially want to argue about this.  I agree he has never been shy about his poselytizing aims; but it does seem to me that for a list of "funny stuff", the opinions you would expect to find expressed are what kind of things are funny, not "people should like Chris, who showed those women what was what."  ("Not only did Chris destroy and embarrass nearly every single female upon whom he'd called for a Jihad, he also managed to con them into giving him a million dollar check. And in the mind of this reviewer, well, revenge just don't come much more sweeter than that."  Seriously, fuck Mario Lanza.)  I actually think the long Russell series is actually the biggest tell.  None of the Russell saga is funny.  It's just a big long harangue on how this guy plays Survivor bad and the casuals who like him are dumb.  Agree with it or not, it's not, I'd argue, what people sign up for in a list of funny scenes.

It wouldn't annoy me if it weren't insidious.  If it was written as a "here's how to play Survivor" page, people would approach the arguments in a critical light.  As asides, in a set witty recaps of hilarious moments, it slips in unexamined.  Oh yeah, I read somewhere Parvati was overrated and annoying, can't remember where, but now I'll be biased against her forever.  Luckily it's just Survivor and doesn't really matter, but it sets off my internal creep alarms in a big way.

Hope I'm wrong about Kim, but he's never liked a gamebot before.

[Lamima]

A little while back, around the time if season finale this year, I asked which past seasons I would watch as I have only watched a few early and a few late seasons. I got a Roku for Xmas and started with Pearl Islands. I actually may have watched it but my kids were 4, 4 and 6 so my memory is a blur. Anyway rewatching it now and I HATE Fariplay. What a douche!!!! And Sandra is dumb. Is she coming back next season, I think I remember her name on the list? Dear god, no!!! On the episode where they are down to six. I am enjoying the focus on who can provide as that seems to be not important anymore but I am not loving Pear Island...from when Ruperts tribe purposely lost IC and the other tribe stealing Rupert for a couple days to all the evictees coming back to battle back with Burt and Lill winning back in. Those stupid gimmicks really effected the outcome of the game.

[Guest]

I had no idea who Mario Lanza was so I clicked to his site and the first things I saw-- he has an AOL email address and he's written 3000+ pages of Survivor fan fic-- make me dislike him.  I've never read any fan fic, unless you count my having read the first 10% or so of 50 Shades of Grey, so I don't know why I dislike its writers but it just seems like a really lame hobby.  If you're driven by creativity to write fiction, why not at least invent your own premise and characters using whatever as an inspiration rather than just adopting an existing premise wholesale.  The Hunger Games was in part inspired by Survivor, for example.  I think I've read a handful of those Funny115 Survivor posts and found them moderately funny, though.  More for the Survivor reminders than the jokes, I think.  

[Oholibamah]

1 hour ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I had no idea who Mario Lanza was so I clicked to his site and the first things I saw-- he has an AOL email address and he's written 3000+ pages of Survivor fan fic-- make me dislike him.  I've never read any fan fic, unless you count my having read the first 10% or so of 50 Shades of Grey, so I don't know why I dislike its writers but it just seems like a really lame hobby.  If you're driven by creativity to write fiction, why not at least invent your own premise and characters using whatever as an inspiration rather than just adopting an existing premise wholesale.  The Hunger Games was in part inspired by Survivor, for example.  I think I've read a handful of those Funny115 Survivor posts and found them moderately funny, though.  More for the Survivor reminders than the jokes, I think.  

I remember reading Mario's Survivor FanFic when I was 13 or 14, and I actually really loved it. Not sure how I'd feel about it now (considering I am with KimberStormer on not finding the funny115 particularly enjoyable), but I don't have a problem with fanfic. My friend did her master's thesis on fan subculture, and would argue what we're doing right now is just another offshoot of Fanfic. 

Edited December 27, 2016 by Oholibamah

[Trick Question]

16 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I think I've read a handful of those Funny115 Survivor posts and found them moderately funny, though.  More for the Survivor reminders than the jokes, I think.  

I've read and re-read all three Funny 115s, though you're right, it's more about nostalgia than comedy.  There are some funny bits (the 'CGI Brett' running gag is legitimately hilarious) and I enjoy it when Lanza finds something I'd never noticed within the show, though for the most part, the posts are prime examples of using 1000 words when 50 would do.  It was funnier than it was about actual "moments" within the show, rather than writing these big long tracts about season-long "storylines" (the whole downfall of Hantz thing) or posts about a particular player that are just listing every goofy thing a player did during their season (like Coach as a whole being the #1 entry on the second Funny 115).  I can't say I've ever picked up on any sexist element to Lanza's writing --- he regularly rips on Probst and the show's promotion of the alpha-male type players --- but since he pretty openly disdains modern Survivor and the gamebot style of play, I'm doubting Kim is one of his favourites.

[Lantern7]

I can't hate on anybody who does fanfic. I did two bits about Survivor on a now-defunct reality-based website. The first one was titled "Maaramu In The Midst." I still need a life.

I like to think I'm smart, but I think I follow the guys more closely than the women, which is probably what Burnett and Probst want me to do. For instance: I don't think I typed Michele's name once in the forums before the S32 finale. And while I consider Hannah to be "my people," I tended to identify more with David. I think Probst flipped a coin before the Reunion, and the other Hannah topic he would've talked about was her having a panic attack on the sideline. That's as embarrassing as a schoolgirl crush on Ken.

[cherrypj]

On 12/27/2016 at 1:08 PM, Oholibamah said:

... would argue what we're doing right now is just another offshoot of Fanfic. 

The S33 Ken thread was ALL fanfic, that's for sure!

[KimberStormer]

On ‎12‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 8:49 AM, Winston9-DT3 said:

I had no idea who Mario Lanza was so I clicked to his site and the first things I saw-- he has an AOL email address and he's written 3000+ pages of Survivor fan fic-- make me dislike him.  I've never read any fan fic, unless you count my having read the first 10% or so of 50 Shades of Grey, so I don't know why I dislike its writers but it just seems like a really lame hobby.

As someone with an AOL email address who has written Survivor fan fic I'm in no position to hate on this score!  (I have other e-mails, I promise, but I've had that one since 1996 or thereabouts, I can't get rid of it!)

[Lantern7]

Bad news: Latest Funny115 is up, and it's chock-full of Philip and shots of him in underwear. Also, there's a guy named Steve that I totally forgot about.

[mojoween]

Jeff tweeted condolences to the family of Dan Kay from Gabon and I feel badly that I have no idea who he is.  Google image search was no help because he is not ringing any bells.

[fishcakes]

I only know who he is because I started rewatching Gabon yesterday for the first time since it originally aired, but I still don't remember him, anything about how he played, or how far he got. He seems like a really nice guy and a little on the goofy side; I suspect he just got overshadowed by the bigger, more obnoxious personalities from that season.

[LadyChatts]

Wow, that's really sad.  Here is his obit that was on Jeff's twitter:

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/name/daniel-kay-obituary?pid=1000000183289986

Edited January 4, 2017 by LadyChatts

[ljenkins782]

54 minutes ago, mojoween said:

Jeff tweeted condolences to the family of Dan Kay from Gabon and I feel badly that I have no idea who he is.  Google image search was no help because he is not ringing any bells.

I also cannot place him from that season despite seeing a photo. Very sad news though, only 40 years old .:(

[Guest]

I had to read the Survivor wiki and some other stuff to refresh my (lousy) memory, despite rewatching Gabon maybe a year or two ago.  He was an attorney then, too, but was on the ill-fated Fang tribe with Kenny and Crystal and GC.  The other tribe had the other white collar cool kids- Corrine, Marcus and the other attorney, Charlie, who was gay and liked Marcus, the hot doctor.  After a tribe swap, Dan joined the other 'ties' and there was some talk of him eating more than his share by Bob, the season's winner.  I think he went out at 11th, so around the middle of the season.  I guess it was a DE ep and Ace went then, too.

It's always troubling when no cause of death is given.  I hope for his kids' sake it wasn't something too embarrassing.  

[Rachel RSL]

I feel bad because I don't remember him at all either. (Although, even though I've watched every season of Survivor, there are *many* past cast members, including actual winners, who I have literally no recollection of whatsoever. So maybe that's just my own failing memory.) Even after Googling him and finding an article that details when and how he was voted off here, I still have absolutely no memory of him (or the other guy mentioned in the article) at all.

[JaggedLilPill]

Sad news. I remember Dan. He seemed like a really nice guy. I felt bad for him because he got put onto the Kota Tribe of Asshole Onions after the tribe switcheraoo and they voted him off instead of Susie. I know he was uber paranoid and that turned off Marcus/Corinne/Charlie. I think Randy tried advocating for him, but they still voted him off. Shame. Would have rather seen him go further in that season. 

[LadyChatts]

With close to what, 500 contestants and counting (give or take), I'm not surprised many people (including myself) couldn't remember Dan.  Especially in the later seasons, when pre-merge boots got extremely little airtime, usually saved for their boot episode.  Of course the only thing I remember about Gabon is the awfulness of the cast, so maybe it's a good thing I don't remember him.  He must have been one of the good guys.

[Lantern7]

Looked in the media thread. Forgot about Corrine, and she was basically Queen Garbage Person that season. And anytime I think "Dan," the bloated hairy fuck pops up in my head. And then there was the hapless one from earlier. I remember writing a post on TWoP about a challenge, topping it off with Probst shouting, "Dan has the rope tied around his neck and is choking himself as he runs in the wrong direction!!!!"

[Lamima]

I am the one who asked for recommendations of past seasons to watch. Finished Pearl Island and thought that was a boring season... did like the girls finally wising up and sending Burton and then Fair play packing but disappointed in the winner. Kind of a dud season. Now I am watching Palau and I think someone pulled a joke on me and told me the dud seasons to watch. On the episode where the one tribe is down to two. Really boring watching one tribe get decimated and these people are duds. Going to be lame watching the one tribe play to the end. It's always neat to see the dynamics change at merge and this won't have a merge. Uggghh.

After this season I am going to watch the seasons that have players who will be on season 34...Caramoan, Cagayan, Micronesia, Heroes VS Villains, Worlds Apart...

Edited January 4, 2017 by Lamima

[Lantern7]

To me, Tom Westman is the closest we'll get to an old-school superman on this show. He did everything except drive a Segway through camp, trailing a "EVERYBODY SUCKS EXCEPT ME!" banner. "That's right! Give your love to Tom!"

Burton's downfall was funny. He wins Reward and brings Jon with him . . . leaving Darrah, Lillian and Sandra to formulate a plan. And he would make a huge issue of Lil turning on him, after he friggin' voted for her.

[LadyChatts]

Pearl Islands seems to be a fan favorite, but I've never liked it.  Being over saturated with Rupert all these years has clouded it further for me.  Despised the outcast twist, and am glad that was a one time only thing.  I can't even remember most of the cast.  Couldn't stand Burton and seeing his arrogance get the heave ho twice was the only high light.  

Of course one thing I did enjoy about Rupert was the first episode, when he stole the other tribes belongings to sell.  The whole 'only the clothes on their backs and jump overboard' was a nice twist at the time, though that novelty has worn off.

[Rachel RSL]

I don't know. I kind of miss the days when they had to row for hours to get to the island or hike for miles. 

[LadyChatts]

I miss the camp life scenes.  While it may be seen as boring, I liked seeing the castaways bonding with each other, and trying to come up with ways to keep themselves busy.  What do we see now?  Everyone laying around camp, every scene practically involves idol hunting/strategizing/TH of someone saying they are running the show or screwed.  They try to make it suspenseful going into TC that some big blindside is going to happen.  Challenges are digging for puzzle pieces or balls (or both), and then putting the puzzle together/throwing the ball into a bunch of holes (or maybe using the balls to knock the puzzle down).  Or the 100 endurance challenges that involve standing in place.  They don't even make those fun anymore, with Probst tempting people to come down with peanut butter and doughnuts.

[KimberStormer]

10 hours ago, Lamima said:

I am the one who asked for recommendations of past seasons to watch. Finished Pearl Island and thought that was a boring season... did like the girls finally wising up and sending Burton and then Fair play packing but disappointed in the winner. Kind of a dud season. Now I am watching Palau and I think someone pulled a joke on me and told me the dud seasons to watch. On the episode where the one tribe is down to two. Really boring watching one tribe get decimated and these people are duds. Going to be lame watching the one tribe play to the end. It's always neat to see the dynamics change at merge and this won't have a merge. Uggghh.

After this season I am going to watch the seasons that have players who will be on season 34...Caramoan, Cagayan, Micronesia, Heroes VS Villains, Worlds Apart...

The dynamics kind of do change at the non-merge anyway; but part of the fun of Palau is the total domination of Koror over Ulong, just week after week of it.  There are some great post-merge moves, but in general it pretty much goes as you might expect.  Since Ian was my first Survivor Boyfriend I never got bored, but I could see why you might.

I'd advise you to watch Micronesia, if you're bored so far.  It sounds like you have different tastes than most in Survivor Characters but I do believe Micronesia pretty much has something for everyone and is the gold standard, I still think, in non-stop mindblowing action, at least post-merge.  I dislike Cagayan but perhaps you won't feel the characters in that one, from J'Tia to Spencer to Tony, are "duds".  I wouldn't wish Caramoan and Worlds Apart on my worst enemy, but maybe ignore me!

[Trick Question]

19 minutes ago, KimberStormer said:

The dynamics kind of do change at the non-merge anyway; but part of the fun of Palau is the total domination of Koror over Ulong, just week after week of it.  There are some great post-merge moves, but in general it pretty much goes as you might expect.  Since Ian was my first Survivor Boyfriend I never got bored, but I could see why you might.

There was the week-to-week suspense of "wait, is Koror actually going to run the table??" combined with the fact that Bobby Jon and Steph (in her first appearance) are both pretty likable underdog characters.  And post-merge, there's a good deal of suspense about whether or not anyone will overthrow Tom and Ian --- Gregg and Jenn were underrated terrific players, only thwarted by Ian/Tom's plan to weaponize the threat of a rock draw.

Also, the Tom/Ian duel in the final immunity challenge is still maybe the craziest thing that's ever happened on the show.

[LadyChatts]

2 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

The dynamics kind of do change at the non-merge anyway; but part of the fun of Palau is the total domination of Koror over Ulong, just week after week of it.  There are some great post-merge moves, but in general it pretty much goes as you might expect.  Since Ian was my first Survivor Boyfriend I never got bored, but I could see why you might.

I'd advise you to watch Micronesia, if you're bored so far.  It sounds like you have different tastes than most in Survivor Characters but I do believe Micronesia pretty much has something for everyone and is the gold standard, I still think, in non-stop mindblowing action, at least post-merge.  I dislike Cagayan but perhaps you won't feel the characters in that one, from J'Tia to Spencer to Tony, are "duds".  I wouldn't wish Caramoan and Worlds Apart on my worst enemy, but maybe ignore me!

I was surprised that there was no tribe swap that season, if anything to show mercy to the poor Ulong tribe and let at least some of them know what it feels like to win.  Prior to that, the losingist tribe in Survivor I believe was Maaramu from Marquesas.  I also thought it was the only time since Thailand that they didn't do a tribe swap, but PI didn't have one, either.  I started re-watching Palau, which had always been a 'meh' season, but not one I could consider on the level of awfulness of those two you mentioned.  I had seen comments about Tom on here, and it was a season that I wanted to see if my perspective had changed, for better or worse (two episodes in and it has, though not exactly for the worst).  I said in another thread the the comedy of the first IC, and seeing Ulong try to paddle their boat (after already falling significantly behind Koror), and having half of the people in the boat facing the wrong direction.  It was one of the few times I appreciated Jeff's commentary during the challenges: "Ulong is rowing to an entirely different island."  I feel like Koror could have given them a 5 minute head start and they still would have beat them. 

I can see, just from that first challenge, why Koror dominated Ulong.  They worked together so much better.  Ulong had no plan, and no communication.  It actually reminded me of that HvsV challenge where James called Stephenie out and saying that there needed to be only one voice.  He was a jerk about it, but it made me realize Stephenie just wasn't good at this game.  I don't think there was any self awareness and anything she thought she needed to change in order to make a successful run.  It was a riot seeing her and Jonathan jump out of the boat in that first episode pre-maturely and try to make a swim for the island to get those two immunity necklaces-and then have the boat whiz right by them.

Not that I'm complaining, but I noticed in watching the first ep on CBS, they cut out Wanda's singing. 

[Lamima]

Just finished and Tom deserved the win. The final IC with Tom and Ian was crazy and just plain DUMB of Ian to jump after 11 hours in order to get their respect back. They bullied and played him. And then Katie not answering Janu's jury question. I just don't get some people. They go all that way and suffer to just blow it so close to the finish line. Glad Katie did not win though. She was such a mean girl and did nothing worth the win.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Lamima

[ByaNose]

Palau was one of my favorite seasons. I was all about Stephenie Lagrossa 1.0. I was impressed that she made it to the Final 2 in Guatemala and less so in Heroes vs. Villians. I also like Tom Westman as a winner even if he did bully Ian to quit the FIC. All in all, a great season.

[Lamima]

Watching Micronesia now. Just started and I think this will be a good one. Loved loved loved that Yauman smashed Fairplay's  head in the boat to grab the II. This should be good. And I get to see this Pavarti I keep hearing about.

[enlightenedbum]

4 hours ago, Lamima said:

Just finished and Tom deserved the win. The final IC with Tom and Ian was crazy and just plain DUMB of Ian to jump after 11 hours in order to get their respect back. They bullied and played him. And then Katie not answering Janu's jury question. I just don't get some people. They go all that way and suffer to just blow it so close to the finish line. Glad Katie did not win though. She was such a mean girl and did nothing worth the win.

Katie refusing to answer that question was possibly her best moment.  She could read a room, and knew she had lost.  No reason to abase herself for a quitting asshole.

[Lantern7]

In Janu's defense, she would've been gone before the jury formed in any other season. She was not cut out for the game, even in the Utopia that was Koror. Also, didn't Probst nudge her off the ledge in order for Stephenie to stay in the game?

[KimberStormer]

From episode thread:

1 hour ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I thought Jaclyn's was the weakest argument because it was about her only resume point but I guess from a philosophical standpoint, her's was slightly more unique and pitiable, especially with Jon out there so everyone knew the happy couple.  I think she claimed she should win because it would cost them so much more than others to have a child.  

I actually think Jaclyn did a lot in that game, and here's an Island of One for you: I think SJDS had possibly the strongest F3 ever, and in a unique way where all three people at the end did a ton and were never really working together but sort of each got there under her own steam.  There have been other very strong F2/F3s but it was always, that I can remember, an alliance that worked together -- even Yul and Ozzy.  Missy for all intents and purposes ran the game up to the last few boots, Natalie played an amazing endgame and truly masterful jury management, and Jaclyn was the better half of the Jon/Jaclyn power couple (an actual power couple for once!) often knowing better than Jon what to do.  But, with Jaclyn, not only did the jury not see it, I don't think she even saw it herself, really.  She assumed along with everyone else that Jon was the driving force of the two of them.  I think they had a plan for Jaclyn to get voted out before the FTC, and for Jon to drop the no-kids bomb at FTC, and she didn't know what else to do so she stuck with that plan as best she could in the end.  But I wish she had seen herself as a strong player and talked herself up more as a strategic force.

(It seemed like Missy intended to take both herself and Baylor to the end, and I wish I understood how on earth she thought that was a good idea.  I doubt either of them could ever win, at least with that jury, but surely you want to concentrate whatever votes you are getting.)

[Oholibamah]

17 minutes ago, KimberStormer said:

From episode thread:

I actually think Jaclyn did a lot in that game, and here's an Island of One for you: I think SJDS had possibly the strongest F3 ever, and in a unique way where all three people at the end did a ton and were never really working together but sort of each got there under her own steam.  There have been other very strong F2/F3s but it was always, that I can remember, an alliance that worked together -- even Yul and Ozzy.  Missy for all intents and purposes ran the game up to the last few boots, Natalie played an amazing endgame and truly masterful jury management, and Jaclyn was the better half of the Jon/Jaclyn power couple (an actual power couple for once!) often knowing better than Jon what to do.  But, with Jaclyn, not only did the jury not see it, I don't think she even saw it herself, really.  She assumed along with everyone else that Jon was the driving force of the two of them.  I think they had a plan for Jaclyn to get voted out before the FTC, and for Jon to drop the no-kids bomb at FTC, and she didn't know what else to do so she stuck with that plan as best she could in the end.  But I wish she had seen herself as a strong player and talked herself up more as a strategic force.

(It seemed like Missy intended to take both herself and Baylor to the end, and I wish I understood how on earth she thought that was a good idea.  I doubt either of them could ever win, at least with that jury, but surely you want to concentrate whatever votes you are getting.)

"Screw you, I'm going to the top 3 then!" is one of my favorite Survivor quotes ever. 

I expend a lot of energy defending Jaclyn to my boyfriend (who loathes her despite refusing to watch the second half of what he terms San Juan Del Suck), but maybe I should have you give it a try instead. 

Agreed re: strongest Final 3, although I would throw Philippines, China and Kaoh Rong into that hat. If making FTC isn't a prerequisite then my vote goes to Tocantins. 

Oddly, the closest we've gotten to an "unaligned, by the power of their own steam" F3 would be Nicaragua. Which, ew. 

[LadyChatts]

My favorite final 3 was from Marquesas.  Two underdogs: Kathy, an outsider within her own tribe from day 1, who likely would have gotten the boot had Rotu lost a challenge (and got lucky in the tribe swap).  Only to be undone because of an apparent wardrobe malfunction during the FIC.  And Vecepia, on the losing end of challenges until the tribe swap except (unlike Kathy was in good standing with her tribe's alliance), got lucky in the tribe swap and was UTR, and despite being on the wrong side of numbers at the merge, until the infamous coconut chopping challenge, made it to the end and won.  Which brings me to Neleh, who turned the game on its head by deciding she wasn't going to just be a number in an alliance and turned on her former Rotu tribe mates.  Vecepia has always been an underrated winner, but I still would have given the win to Neleh.  Of course she wasn't going to win with a Rotu majority jury, and it's always disappointed me she's never been brought back for another chance (actually I'd love to see Vee get another shot as well).  

Edited January 5, 2017 by LadyChatts