Past Seasons Talk: The Tribe Has Spoken

[pamplemousse]

Being in investment banking, you'd think that RC had already met her fair share of extreme sociopaths, but then again, who could possibly be prepared for the Godzilla of Batshit Crazy Gaslighting F-ed Upness that is Abi-Maria?

According to some posters around here, Abi-Maria is actually nice and sweet. I'm sure, unless you happen to look up at the sky and she thinks you are looking for instructions in the clouds on how to backstab her so she must destroy you first.

[hincandenza]

2 hours ago, pamplemousse said:

Being in investment banking, you'd think that RC had already met her fair share of extreme sociopaths, but then again, who could possibly be prepared for the Godzilla of Batshit Crazy Gaslighting F-ed Upness that is Abi-Maria?

According to some posters around here, Abi-Maria is actually nice and sweet. I'm sure, unless you happen to look up at the sky and she thinks you are looking for instructions in the clouds on how to backstab her so she must destroy you first.

Oh man.  I just finished watching Cambodia about a week ago, as the more recent seasons finally showed up on Hulu.  My god, I had not seen her previous season, but it was very uncomfortable watching Abi on "Second Chances"; she was ticking every DSM-IV box for a deep-seated personality disorder.  Gaslighting is right; I felt bad for those other contestants, who in their talking heads- like with Spencer and Tasha- flat out admitted it was exhausting basically babysitting what was a toddler in a grown woman's body.  She should never have been let back, but reality TV shows will always err on the side of "drama" over recognizing that some levels of mental health need dedicated therapy, not further attention on national TV.

Then again, it was sad to come to the forums after each episode and read what people had written back when they aired; poor Shirin got more shunning and shaming both on the show and among viewers because she.... walked away from a dramatic situation that she had no role in, and no part to play?  That was her great crime, and fatally stupid Survivor error, for which she was browbeaten into apologizing for at tribal council, and derided on the forums as a loser and a bitch?  That's literally what a mature adult does, it's like the definition of being mature: you recognize not everyone's personal demons need to be indulged, that you are not obliged or entitled to inject yourself into every thing that hapens, and not all events or actions are urgent enough to need an immediate response.

Interestingly, in the current episode thread of the current season of Survivor (episode 5 of Millenials vs. Gen-X), there has been talk about how this season is "boring", because there aren't dramatic crazy people on.  We saw when in what was probably the only freak out we've seen this season, Hannah kept wanting to talk while Zeke needed time to ponder the blindside of his alliance, and she just would not take no for an answer.  With past casting decisions- or with someone like Abi- that tiny encounter would have defined multiple episodes of fallout, hurt feelings, and disrupted alliances.  Happily, in this season everyone was mature enough that Hannah finally backed off, and from what I can tell it's never come up since.

[Nashville]

12 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Funny115 reaches the Abi-Maria/RC "friendship." While I still maintain that Camila from The Challenge is the bigger psycho from Brazil . . . I am reminded as to why RC spoke so much ill of Abi-Maria at TARCon.

This is one of the best things I've ever read in my LIFE.

[kikaha]

On 10/13/2016 at 4:01 AM, KimberStormer said:

I was thinking about Kelley Wentworth, and how she's a fantastic example of how "anyone but me" is not a good strategy even at the beginning.  Kelley played "anyone but me" with the Shirin vote instead of fighting for her alliance, and was literally on the outs and the underdog for the entire rest of Cambodia.  She played amazingly at that role, but she was out of power ever afterwards.  It goes against received Survivor wisdom to stick your neck out early, but by going along to get along Kelley really screwed her whole game for an entire month of gameplay.

I have a pretty different view of Kelley.  Her mistake was not playing 'anyone but me.'  Nor was it voting against Shirin: the next day after the Shirin boot, the tribes got shuffled... then shuffled again a few episodes later... then merged shortly after.  All these rapid-fire realignments (most in Survivor history), left plenty of room for everyone to maneuver, no matter how they had voted earlier.

Kelley's mistake was aligning with Ciera.  Right before merge, Ciera tried to make a big move.  It backfired on her: her real target (Savage) was able to make merge and rally the troops to his side.  Kelley made the huge mistake of hooking up with Ciera anyway, and found herself down around 9 to 3. 

Kelley still almost won.  Except for a mistake at the F4 IC, she would have won immunity.  IMO she easily beats Spencer and Tasha in the finals.  If Jeremy had made it in place of Spence (fire-making challenge?), the vote would have been fascinating. 

So I think the one strategic mistake Kelley made was to not quite read the tea leaves correctly when it came to Ciera.  When you make F4 anyway, and are one small challenge error from making your case at FTC (where you have at least 50-50 odds to win), did you really make strategic mistakes at all? 

[Lantern7]

Funny115 hits Caramoan and how white the show can be. It's mostly about Philip being Philip, and Probst being a dipshit, along with rare pictures of Philip not sliding jagged pieces of glass under Brandon's nails and up his ass. The author brings up how a website inducted Vecepia into their "Hall of Shame" back in the day. While I did write for that site, I think that might have been before I arrived. If not, then I wasn't involved in the decision. Question: was Vecepia really that bad? I know she was a better champ than the next two: Brian (was ass going into Thailand, triple ass afterward) and Jenna (she lucked into getting Matthew on Day 39).

[fishcakes]

12 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Question: was Vecepia really that bad?

Vecepia is an underrated player, in my opinion. She was very opportunistic about alliances, jumping from one group to another when it suited her game. She also made promises and broke them when it worked to her advantage. She and Sean were the ones who worked on Pappy and Neleh to flip them, but for some reason Kathy gets the credit for it. I think people don't like Vee for a lot of reasons: being part of the alliance that voted off Golden Boy Hunter, because they believe Paschal's bullshit about how she and Sean played the race card (when it was actually Paschal who was playing it), and because they found her hypocritical when she gave that TH about how she knew she could lie and backstab people but then ask Jesus for forgiveness after the game (which I agree was assy, but for moral reasons, not game reasons). Really, Vee's gameplay was not all that different from Cesternino's in Amazon (albeit with far less of a sense of fun), and for a long time he was called, "the greatest player who never won," but the audience didn't find Vee likeable and that somehow translated into, "she was a terrible, undeserving winner."

Edited October 30, 2016 by fishcakes

[ljenkins782]

On October 30, 2016 at 10:05 AM, fishcakes said:

Vecepia is an underrated player, in my opinion. She was very opportunistic about alliances, jumping from one group to another when it suited her game. She also made promises and broke them when it worked to her advantage. She and Sean were the ones who worked on Pappy and Neleh to flip them, but for some reason Kathy gets the credit for it. I think people don't like Vee for a lot of reasons: being part of the alliance that voted off Golden Boy Hunter, because they believe Paschal's bullshit about how she and Sean played the race card (when it was actually Paschal who was playing it), and because they found her hypocritical when she gave that TH about how she knew she could lie and backstab people but then ask Jesus for forgiveness after the game (which I agree was assy, but for moral reasons, not game reasons). Really, Vee's gameplay was not all that different from Cesternino's in Amazon (albeit with far less of a sense of fun), and for a long time he was called, "the greatest player who never won," but the audience didn't find Vee likeable and that somehow translated into, "she was a terrible, undeserving winner."

Yeah, I think the alliance jumping is part of what made people dislike her back then because it wasn't a strategy that had been used. Richard Hatch made the alliance model work and the subsequent seasons followed it, so there was an expectation there. People turned on individual alliance members (like Tina/Colby turning on Jerri), but the winners always came from a strong alliance. 

Also, because she wasn't a big personality hamming up the strategy angle in confessionals (like Cesternino did), her flipping and maneuvering didn't translate as well to the tv audience. 

I personally thought she was boring as a tv personality, but she pulled off a win in a very unlikely scenario (with the Rotu 4 running the show for awhile and schemers like Boston Rob in the mix). 

[Lantern7]

Good news: New Funny115 article is up. Bad news: It's about Naonka vs. Kelly's leg. If you've been feeling fatigued after this week, you might want to hold off reading that for a while.

[Lantern7]

Moving on to #99, with John Fucking Rocker. Joy. At least the author shares the disdain I have for that guy.

[hincandenza]

20 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Moving on to #99, with John Fucking Rocker. Joy. At least the author shares the disdain I have for that guy.

OMG.  That was hilarious.  I nearly cried laughing at the recurring "skilled inquisitor <image>" bit.  That kid is like Torquemada!  I missed that season, among many in the middle years, but I might have to watch the first episode of this one just for that exchange.

 

Teeny tiny complaint: the author rightly critiques the rather shitty Jeff Kent in passing, but also disdains Barry Bonds.  Among real baseball fans that I know, Bonds is revered as- well, maybe not the nicest human being, but a solid teammate and unquestionably one of the 5 best hitters who ever walked the face of the earth, PEDs or no.  Given how Kent benefited from sportswriters- in particular the utterly loathsome Rick Reilly- painting him as that tough, gritty, downhome player compared to the "snobby" Bonds, the whole picture of Bonds the casual fans and non-fans have is kind of a product of subtle racial prejudice, as well as the thin skin of sportwriters to anyone who didn't bow to their supposed journalistic greatness.  This is a quote from Jeff Pearlman of Sports Illustrated (who conducted the interview with John Rocker that blew up and made Rocker a household name for all the wrong reasons):

Quote

Barry Bonds was having a fantastic season in 2000 when Sports Illustrated sent me to San Francisco with the hopes of writing a profile. One problem: Bonds hadn’t spoken to the magazine in years—a boycott over what he considered to be unfair treatment. I didn’t know Bonds, but we had a mutual friend who put in a good word. The slugger agreed to sit down, and he was fantastic—funny, engaging. We chatted for a long time, and I wrote what I considered to be one of my better stories. I filed it late into the night, and the next morning caught a cab for the airport. En route, my cell phone rang. It was Mike Bevans, the magazine’s baseball editor. Here’s exactly what he said: “Pearlman, if we wanted to give Barry Bonds a blowjob we could have flown him to New York and paid for it.” Click.

And this a time capsule of an essay from "Salon" magazine in the summer of 2000 talking about the very questionable bias against Bonds, and whether it was racially motivated when compared to Jeff Kent:

http://www.salon.com/2001/08/30/kent/

Edited November 18, 2016 by hincandenza

[DEL901]

Hope this is the right place to post this.  The URL explains it all:  http://www.ew.com/article/2016/11/18/survivor-alum-michael-skupin-guilty-child-pornography

[hincandenza]

23 hours ago, DEL901 said:

Hope this is the right place to post this.  The URL explains it all:  http://www.ew.com/article/2016/11/18/survivor-alum-michael-skupin-guilty-child-pornography

To be fair, we don't know the truth: honestly, 6 thumbnails is basically nothing (and child pornography as a term has been massaged by the law to the point that two 15-year-olds in high school sexting each other could be convicted for a topless photo), and seems like something they found in a browser cache.  I can't believe someone was convicted over that; it could easily be put there by malicious pop-ups or web pages, even ones hosting otherwise totally legal porn- especially if it was indeed a shared computer.  I don't know if the jury had other information not shown in the article that proves his guilt, or were just being virtue-signaling assholes (like the kind that rush to convict the innocent in those periodic witch hunt trials, when some day care center or church group is accused of satanic black magic child sex baby murdering cults).  Me, if I were on the jury, I couldn't convict over six thumbnail images.

[Lantern7]

If only Mike had gone crotch-first into the fire.

Funny115 chugs along with a spotlight on Philip and Rob.

[Lantern7]

Funny115: Mario writes about the last line from "Bob Johnson."

[Lantern7]

Funny115: Probst vs. Jonathan Penner: Round 3.

[Lantern7]

While I'm waiting for the next Funny115 entry . . . how long has it been since players got voted off as scheduled, with no evacuations? I know there are three days left . . . but besides Paul (or whatever his name was) and Hannah having scares, I'm surprised things went off as scheduled, aside from the weather in the first episode.

[SlackerInc]

On 11/19/2016 at 4:39 PM, hincandenza said:

To be fair, we don't know the truth: honestly, 6 thumbnails is basically nothing (and child pornography as a term has been massaged by the law to the point that two 15-year-olds in high school sexting each other could be convicted for a topless photo), and seems like something they found in a browser cache.  I can't believe someone was convicted over that; it could easily be put there by malicious pop-ups or web pages, even ones hosting otherwise totally legal porn- especially if it was indeed a shared computer.  I don't know if the jury had other information not shown in the article that proves his guilt, or were just being virtue-signaling assholes (like the kind that rush to convict the innocent in those periodic witch hunt trials, when some day care center or church group is accused of satanic black magic child sex baby murdering cults).  Me, if I were on the jury, I couldn't convict over six thumbnail images.

Wow, yeah: that seems like some pretty thin evidence.

[Guest]

I'd be more tempted to believe Skupin if he hadn't also been running what clearly seems to be a Ponzi scheme as well.  

I have a feeling to convict there must have been more evidence than the original 6 thumbnails, too.  I think they can subpoena browsing history and recover deleted files, right?   Maybe I watch too much tv.  But I know my college library stores users' browsing histories and turns it over to the police in child porn cases.  

[fishcakes]

16 hours ago, Lamima said:

I watched the first several season and then the last three... missing many in between. I want to go back and binge a few... any suggestions which ones I should watch?

I'm ride or die when it comes to Survivor, so it's easier for me to pick out the seasons I think are not worth watching:

7. Vanuatu
11. Guatemala
17. Gabon
19. Samoa (unless you feel you must see the Russell Hantz origin story)
21. Nicaragua
23. South Pacific
24. One World
26. Caramoan (unless you liked South Pacific and want to see Cochran play a very different game)
29. San Juan Del Sur
30. Worlds Apart
32. Kaoh Rong

Of course, these things are all squarely YMMV. I am sure other posters would put some of these on their own Must Watch lists, but these make the Meh list for me because they had either a high percentage of heinous human beings, stupid players, or winners who won simply because they were less objectionable than the competition.

[Lamima]

Vanuatu was season 9

[Hanahope]

But Vanuatu has the Eliza origin story, and she's quite the character.

Interesting that I can remember the early seasons just on their name, but after Guatamala (or shortly thereafter), I couldn't remember which was which without some further explanation as to theme or winner.

[LadyChatts]

7 hours ago, fishcakes said:

I'm ride or die when it comes to Survivor, so it's easier for me to pick out the seasons I think are not worth watching:

7. Vanuatu
11. Guatemala
17. Gabon
19. Samoa (unless you feel you must see the Russell Hantz origin story)
21. Nicaragua
23. South Pacific
24. One World
26. Caramoan (unless you liked South Pacific and want to see Cochran play a very different game)
29. San Juan Del Sur
30. Worlds Apart
32. Kaoh Rong

Of course, these things are all squarely YMMV. I am sure other posters would put some of these on their own Must Watch lists, but these make the Meh list for me because they had either a high percentage of heinous human beings, stupid players, or winners who won simply because they were less objectionable than the competition.

I agree with these, except I'm on the few that liked Guatemala (though I'm clearly in the minority there).  I wouldn't exactly call it must watch, but I enjoyed it.  I'd throw Redemption Island in there as being unwatchable, unless you happen to be a Boston Rob fan.  Otherwise, great list.  When anyone asks what seasons to watch, I typically steer clear of the post HvsV group, except for Philippines and Cagayan (Cambodia and BvsW were good, but I know some people would want to watch the original seasons those people were on first).  And some of those just aren't worth sitting through.

Edited December 12, 2016 by LadyChatts

[fishcakes]

44 minutes ago, LadyChatts said:

I'm on the few that liked Guatemala

I like Guatemala better in retrospect. Maybe because it's one of the earlier seasons, back when the show didn't actively try to be terrible. And I did love the incredible dumbness of the Gary Hawkins, Landscaper saga. But I kind of feel like Gabon was where the show took a turn for the worse, in terms of casting, and except for a few players who were both likeable and memorable after that, it's mostly been a slow downhill slide.

[Guest]

Weird thing about Guatemala is we only watched it this summer for the first time, and never did bother watching the last few episodes.  Weird.  I guess we were a little bored.  I would've been more into it if I wasn't spoiled.  That's the problem with watching them years later when you talk about the series online!  

[Lantern7]

I think Nicaragua is the worst season. This was before the highly-anticipated Rob vs. Russell showdown, so a bunch of idiots were cast to make them look better by comparison, along with Jimmy Johnson (who lasted two episodes). One of the bigger dummies wound up winning, and Jud/Fabio only got the million bucks because two people who up and quit the game voted for him on Day 39. Back on TWoP, I was more or less singing, "We need a Little Russell! Right this very season! Nicaragua sucks! And that is the reason that we need a Little Russell! Right this very season! We need a Little Russell noooooooooooooowww!!!" Then Redemption Island happened, Russell went out like a total punk (falling through the safety net of Redemption Island), and Rob got his precious title on the fourth try, defeating an overwhelmed field. And Philip Fucking Shepherd.

[NutMeg]

I liked Guatemala a lot, mostly for the overall cast and the ending, even if part of it made me as mad a a cartoon character with smoke coming out of my brain (ears?). I'm still peeved that none of the cast made it back, except for freaking Stephanie of the GiGi pizza place.

It's tough recommending any season, because mileage varies, etc. I think even the worst seasons had something good in them, whether cast, novel strategy, novel landscape (gorgeous and punishing in Guatemala, btw) or even to get to know future recurring characters.

I had heard for years how Jenna Morasca was "the worst winner ever", and two years ago or thereabout I finally watched her season (I started watched Pearl Islands and never stopped since). Colour me surprised, but I enjoyed the hell out of that season. Maybe my experience would have been different if I hadn't known how it ended (just the winner, nothing else). It also corrected some misconceptions (hearsay again) about certain contestants, such as one that I only heard of as being batshit crazy (I didn't think he was).

All this to say that hopefully anyone who hasn't can watch them all and make up their own minds. I mean, come on, I think for instance One World was wonderful (once past a certain evacuation), and some people think it's one of the worst seasons. So yeah, no consensus here obviously, but that's one of the things that makes Survivor a great show and also why there forums are so great. 

[LadyChatts]

52 minutes ago, NutMeg said:

I liked Guatemala a lot, mostly for the overall cast and the ending, even if part of it made me as mad a a cartoon character with smoke coming out of my brain (ears?). I'm still peeved that none of the cast made it back, except for freaking Stephanie of the GiGi pizza place.

It's tough recommending any season, because mileage varies, etc. I think even the worst seasons had something good in them, whether cast, novel strategy, novel landscape (gorgeous and punishing in Guatemala, btw) or even to get to know future recurring characters.

I had heard for years how Jenna Morasca was "the worst winner ever", and two years ago or thereabout I finally watched her season (I started watched Pearl Islands and never stopped since). Colour me surprised, but I enjoyed the hell out of that season. Maybe my experience would have been different if I hadn't known how it ended (just the winner, nothing else). It also corrected some misconceptions (hearsay again) about certain contestants, such as one that I only heard of as being batshit crazy (I didn't think he was).

All this to say that hopefully anyone who hasn't can watch them all and make up their own minds. I mean, come on, I think for instance One World was wonderful (once past a certain evacuation), and some people think it's one of the worst seasons. So yeah, no consensus here obviously, but that's one of the things that makes Survivor a great show and also why there forums are so great. 

I'm always glad to find Guatemala fans.  I don't count Stephenie as a returnee from that season, since she was a Palau import.  I'm somewhat surprised that no one has ever been brought back from that season (I mean, if they can find one person to bring back from Thailand and Fiji, they can't from Guatemala?).  I do think some of the more memorable and interesting personalities were voted out early on.  Post merge, there weren't a ton of people I wanted to see come back besides Danni and Brandon.  

When I think about Jenna and her win, the phrase 'in hindsight' comes to mind.  She was young, and took a lot of flack for her mean girl behavior.  Unlike her BFF Heidi, Jenna seemed to at least acknowledge that she had a lot of growing up to do.  Compared to the seasons and winners that came after, I'd say Jenna was far from a bad winner, and her and Heidi are no where near as bad as a bunch of people who have come after them.  Getting caught up in an alliance with the likes of Heidi and Alex, and being the main adversary to Christy (who I believe was the first contestant to have a disability), obviously didn't help her image.  But I think a lot of it had to do with who she was surrounded with.  Her landslide victory over Matt is still somewhat surprising, even after all this time.  Amazon still ranks as a top 10 season for me, and I wish it had more people brought back from it.  

[NutMeg]

34 minutes ago, LadyChatts said:

I'm always glad to find Guatemala fans.  I don't count Stephenie as a returnee from that season, since she was a Palau import.  I'm somewhat surprised that no one has ever been brought back from that season (I mean, if they can find one person to bring back from Thailand and Fiji, they can't from Guatemala?).  I do think some of the more memorable and interesting personalities were voted out early on.  Post merge, there weren't a ton of people I wanted to see come back besides Danni and Brandon.  

When I think about Jenna and her win, the phrase 'in hindsight' comes to mind.  She was young, and took a lot of flack for her mean girl behavior.  Unlike her BFF Heidi, Jenna seemed to at least acknowledge that she had a lot of growing up to do.  Compared to the seasons and winners that came after, I'd say Jenna was far from a bad winner, and her and Heidi are no where near as bad as a bunch of people who have come after them.  Getting caught up in an alliance with the likes of Heidi and Alex, and being the main adversary to Christy (who I believe was the first contestant to have a disability), obviously didn't help her image.  But I think a lot of it had to do with who she was surrounded with.  Her landslide victory over Matt is still somewhat surprising, even after all this time.  Amazon still ranks as a top 10 season for me, and I wish it had more people brought back from it.  

About Guatamala: right!? any of them could come back and I'd be happy - even pre jury, villain, anyone! just bring them back!

About Amazon and Jenna: Reading posts about that season and her, it always felt to me that the comments were most about "Rob was robbed". My unpopular opinion is that he was not, Jenna played a better game and won. Maybe Rob was one of the first "conniving strategist" (just speculating, haven't watched any season prior to Amazon), and that why he's remembered fondly, but there were definitely better conniving strategists down the line.

[Guest]

I didn't get the feeling anyone was robbed that season.  Jenna wasn't someone we jumped off the couch for her winning but we didn't mind, either.  

I guess I don't care all that much who wins, too.  I thought China was a great season but the winner also wasn't someone we really went crazy for.  Same for last season.  I think they're all worth a watch.  

This option wasn't there when I caught up on the dozen or more seasons I missed but it's the cheapest, easiest now-- CBS All Access has all the seasons and costs like $6/month for a regular subscription and around $10 for ad-free.  I had to buy some seasons off the 'net from home-recorded DVDs when I caught up on them all, and some I had to buy off Amazon for over $30/season.    

Edited December 13, 2016 by Guest

[waving feather]

The conversation between Parvati and Amanda in HvV after the merge has to be my favorite all time Survivor conversations. The way these two bright ladies try to feel each other out, fish intel from each other but at the same time, figuring out what's a lie and what's not...it's awesome.

That's one thing I miss in this season's of Survivor. It's exciting because the game is played at such a fast pace, but sometimes I do miss when players take time to figure each other out instead of making knee jerk reactions (Will, I'm looking at you).

[peachmangosteen]

I figure that kinda stuff still goes on, but they just don't show it as much anymore for whatever reason.

[waving feather]

11 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I figure that kinda stuff still goes on, but they just don't show it as much anymore for whatever reason.

True. The editing style has changed a bit. I do miss seeing all those stuff though because I love observing the social interactions. Like when Amanda was exclaiming "Loving it!", you know she's not loving but actually hating it. Lol.

[Lantern7]

From Funny115: Ozzy and the gang try to convince Cochrane that he's a badass; Cochrane is hella-skeptical. Bonus: Inappropriate Cochrane!

[KimberStormer]

People really can't say Rob was robbed when Jenna won final immunity fair and square.  (This reminds me, however, of Heidi's hilarious leading "who here should have won" question at FTC and her requesting a do-over when nobody answers "Heidi")

That is a great scene.  Dancing around each other.  It's easy for me to say Amanda is a terrible liar because I know what was really going on, but I think Parvati really drew her out there in a great way.  Here's an example of when telling someone about the idol -- telling the enemy about the idol! -- worked.  It's clear Amanda is not excited, the way she would be if she really wanted to work with Parvati, and it makes an Edgardo move by the Heroes very likely, which makes it easier for Parv to make the right counter-move (especially once Amanda gives an even worse performance later on.)  Also I like how she doesn't say how she got it, so Amanda doesn't know if she's talking about the one JT gave to Russell or what.  "You got another one?  How'd you get another one?" is one of those things; was that a slip on Amanda's part or had they been talking about past idol plays?  Any of the real story would seem to contradict the Russell-on-the-outs fairy tale they were supposed to be giving the Heroes, so I wonder.

Edited December 13, 2016 by KimberStormer

[ljenkins782]

1 hour ago, KimberStormer said:

People really can't say Rob was robbed when Jenna won final immunity fair and square.  (This reminds me, however, of Heidi's hilarious leading "who here should have won" question at FTC and her requesting a do-over when nobody answers "Heidi")

Ha, one of my favorite jury question moments ever! Jeff had to finally be like "Ok, I think they answered it, go sit down." 

Quote

When I think about Jenna and her win, the phrase 'in hindsight' comes to mind.  She was young, and took a lot of flack for her mean girl behavior.  Unlike her BFF Heidi, Jenna seemed to at least acknowledge that she had a lot of growing up to do.  Compared to the seasons and winners that came after, I'd say Jenna was far from a bad winner, and her and Heidi are no where near as bad as a bunch of people who have come after them.  Getting caught up in an alliance with the likes of Heidi and Alex, and being the main adversary to Christy (who I believe was the first contestant to have a disability), obviously didn't help her image.  But I think a lot of it had to do with who she was surrounded with.  Her landslide victory over Matt is still somewhat surprising, even after all this time.  Amazon still ranks as a top 10 season for me, and I wish it had more people brought back from it.  

I loathed Jenna at the time, but when I rewatched it years later, she didn't seem quite as bad. She had lots of less than stellar moments, but I think she would have been worlds more tolerable without Heidi, who I hated just as much on the second go around. 

I also loathed Rob when the season was airing and was glad when he lost final immunity. I was pulling for a Matthew upset at that point, but no dice. I can actually appreciate Rob's game now in a way that I didn't before because his lonely nerd drooling routine doesn't annoy me as much as it did then. 

Quote

That is a great scene.  Dancing around each other.  It's easy for me to say Amanda is a terrible liar because I know what was really going on, but I think Parvati really drew her out there in a great way.  Here's an example of when telling someone about the idol -- telling the enemy about the idol! -- worked.  It's clear Amanda is not excited, the way she would be if she really wanted to work with Parvati, and it makes an Edgardo move by the Heroes very likely, which makes it easier for Parv to make the right counter-move (especially once Amanda gives an even worse performance later on.)  Also I like how she doesn't say how she got it, so Amanda doesn't know if she's talking about the one JT gave to Russell or what.  "You got another one?  How'd you get another one?" is one of those things; was that a slip on Amanda's part or had they been talking about past idol plays?  Any of the real story would seem to contradict the Russell-on-the-outs fairy tale they were supposed to be giving the Heroes, so I wonder.

I wish I had seen Micronesia before HvVs so I could have understood the relationship that those two had previously had. This scene didn't resonate with me at the time, but it does now. I'm not surprised that Parvati played it better than Amanda, especially considering how terrible Amanda was at the game in HvVs. Any Survivor wits she had previously had seemed to have deserted her by the third go-around. 

[fishcakes]

1 hour ago, ljenkins782 said:

I loathed Jenna at the time, but when I rewatched it years later, she didn't seem quite as bad. She had lots of less than stellar moments, but I think she would have been worlds more tolerable without Heidi, who I hated just as much on the second go around. 

That was my experience watching Jenna as well. And she did become quite a bit more likeable once Heidi got voted out. She still gets knocked for not being friendly with Christie, but once the season was over, a few of the other players talked about how Christie was pretty difficult to get along with, and we saw glimpses of that during the season, so it made me wonder how much of their seeming animosity should be on Jenna and how much on Christie. Heidi, on the other hand, just dumb and awful. (It still makes me laugh to think about her asking Dave, who wanted her to flip and vote with the guys against her former tribemates, what he would do if he were in her position. Dave scrunched up his face and pretended to think about it, then said, "I would go with us." Heidi, "really, you would? Okay." And then she took his I am so sure totally unbiased advice and voted with the guys.) A while back someone here linked to an article about her and her husband having a charitable foundation that helps orphans in Africa and the slant of the article was supposed to be about how Heidi is not the stuck-up snot she seemed to be on Survivor, but then she says something like, "well, celebrities like myself and Angelina Jolie blah blah blah," so humanitarian or not, she's still pretty full of herself.

[LadyChatts]

I think Rob was the better player during Amazon, but I like people that are game movers (and he was pretty funny in his TH/TC confessionals-my favorite was when he was voting Roger out).  However, I can see how Jenna won, because she no doubt had the social game.  She was getting Alex/Dave/Heidi's vote no problem.  Rob voting for her over Matt isn't a big shock in hindsight.  I think the biggest surprise was when Christy voted for her, considering she kept referring to her and Heidi as her "wicked step sisters."  Deena I was surprised at in the beginning in voting for Jenna, but not so much now.

Quote

I also loathed Rob when the season was airing and was glad when he lost final immunity. I was pulling for a Matthew upset at that point, but no dice. I can actually appreciate Rob's game now in a way that I didn't before because his lonely nerd drooling routine doesn't annoy me as much as it did then. 

It's funny for me to watch Rob back then as the Survivor player.  It's like a different person looking at him now as Rob the Survivor podcaster.  As I mentioned above, Rob was a big highlight for me during Amazon.  That season was lucky to have such a good cast overall.  Even most of the pre merge boots were fun and memorable.  Why Rob stood out to me was I thought he was a big gamer compared to the others.  I know Jeff said for the longest time he was the best Survivor player to never win.  I agreed at the time, and still do, though he's certainly not the only one after all this time.  Jenna was smart not to take him to the final 2, but in hindsight, I question if he would have won.  I still think she would have had Dave/Alex/Heidi (Heidi and Alex for sure), and I know some other people felt burned by Rob.  So Jenna may have still gotten a landslide vote no matter what.  It's been so long though, I can't remember what people said post season about how they would have voted if Rob was in the final 2.

Another reason I liked Amazon was it was the first season a 20 something (and a young guy no less) was the first boot. 

Edited December 14, 2016 by LadyChatts

[Lantern7]

I feel bad for Rob. He came up short in S6 and fizzled out on S8. Then came the Reunion. "Rob? Hi. Okay, we're rearranging the seating so that Richard and Sue don't sit next to each other. If Sue were to snap and attack the man who basically molested her, the only thing standing behind her and a bloodbath would be you. So keep your guard up, mmkay? Mmkay."

[KimberStormer]

4 hours ago, ghoulina said:

 I just thought it was nice to see that there weren't a bunch of confident, super athletic men at the end - and one really hot chick. It was a nice mix up, just my opinion.

I just don't get this kind of thing.  What season is like that?  I can't think of a single one.  (Like...Nicaragua?  If you think Holly is a really hot chick?)  I don't think it's a mix-up, I think it's a pretty standard group, just less women than usual.

If I seem to harp on this stuff, well, Survivor is the only TV show I watch, and it's annoying to hear, from fans of it no less, that it's "always" alpha-bro popular-people who win except for this blessed perfect season, you know, the one where they voted off ALL THE WOMEN instantly.  To be clear, I don't mean I disagree with @Oholibamah in the other thread about the actual legitimate problems of Survivor, I just mean the weird idea that sexist jocks always win and finally, finally we've seen something different now, after 32 seasons of douche-jock dominance.  Nothing wrong with loving the season, but you don't have to invent an imaginary contrast to do it.

Edited December 15, 2016 by KimberStormer

[JaggedLilPill]

I kind of want to go back and re-watch season six now. I still crack up at Rob's "Why does he need the machete that sharp? I think he's going to kill us!" re: Matt.

Also another Guatemala lover here. I think it's one of the more underrated seasons. I wonder why we never saw any returning players from that season*, like Brian or Rafe. 

*I know Stephanie was in HvV so I guess she counts even though she was technically from S10 first. 

[MissEwa]

1 hour ago, KimberStormer said:

it's annoying to hear, from fans of it no less, that it's "always" alpha-bro popular-people who win except for this blessed perfect season, you know, the one where they voted off ALL THE WOMEN instantly.  To be clear, I don't mean I disagree with @Oholibamah in the other thread about the actual legitimate problems of Survivor, I just mean the weird idea that sexist jocks always win and finally, finally we've seen something different now, after 32 seasons of douche-jock dominance.  Nothing wrong with loving the season, but you don't have to invent an imaginary contrast to do it.

Right? The last really bro-y jock to win was... JT? And even then, he wasn't. Tyson? Douchey but not really jocky. Jeremy and Mike *might* fit that bill very superficially but only if you didn't actually watch their seasons. It's similar to arguments made a lot that 'women don't win', when the break-up of winners is only marginally tilted towards men. Women have to play differently to men to win (IMO), but they still do, regularly. 

I actually really liked this season but looking back it was one of the worst for women - most of them voted off pretty much right away, one out on rocks (which was really just bad luck), the last two seen as goats and the one who made the finale having her whole game reduced at the reunion to 'isn't it funny how you flirted with the hot guy lol!' 

ETA. I'll put my hand up as another fan of Guatemala. And a big fan of Danni. 

Edited December 15, 2016 by MissEwa

[peachmangosteen]

1 hour ago, MissEwa said:

I actually really liked this season but looking back it was one of the worst for women - most of them voted off pretty much right away, one out on rocks (which was really just bad luck), the last two seen as goats and the one who made the finale having her whole game reduced at the reunion to 'isn't it funny how you flirted with the hot guy lol!' 

This. I loved this season, but when I think about this, and particularly when I think about how Hannah was treated by the jury and the show, I am reminded that even the seasons that don't have any hardcore misogynists provide loads of sexism. Sigh. 

I've already mentioned how I don't really remember much from the earlier seasons, but I do know that I loved when Danni won Guatemala. She's one of my fave winners.

Edited December 15, 2016 by peachmangosteen

[Guest]

I do think it was nice to have a final four of basically misfits.  Call the non-misfits what you want.  There were a lot of more misfit types this season.  

[Lantern7]

Also nice about this past season: no out-and-out villains. Some people did work nerves, sure. Bret was a bit full of himself, but he wasn't that obnoxious. Zeke's main fault was not his personality, but his mustache that made him look like somebody who would get kicked out of playgrounds. Also, he wasn't as compelling a beta male as David. Jay and Taylor? Meatheads. Watching Taylor interviewing about avenging Figgy, I didn't hate the guy. I just couldn't take him seriously. Nobody was on par with scumbags like Scot and Jason. More along the lines of Peter, who needed a separate boat to carry his ego.

[KHenry14]

I guess I'm one of the few who enjoyed Gabon. Not for Sugar or Bob, but for the absolutely spectacular scenery. In a show filled with great locations, this is my absolute favorite

[Lantern7]

All I remember is Randy being dubbed a racist, even though it was obvious that he hated everybody, not just GC and Crystal. Also, Crystal constantly failing at everything. Remember her botching the slam dunk? Reminded me of the episode of Malcolm In The Middle when Malcolm walked down a bowling lane, slammed the ball down, and still missed the pins. And yeah, I should think of Bob. I figured that Hannah would be the most memorable person with a palindrome name, but I totally forgot about Mr. Crowley. I liked him. He was rocking bow ties before Matt Smith made it cool.

[Trick Question]

Amazon is one of my favourite seasons, and it was maybe the first 'modern' Survivor season in the sense that Cesterino was a one-man voting bloc in shifting between two alliances.  The first five seasons had been a pretty straight-forward case of whichever tribe got ahead at the merge Pagong'ed the rest (except for Marquesas, which was like a reverse Pagong'ing after John Carroll got eliminated), whereas Amazon was more unpredictable since Rob was a bit all over the place in targeting different threats from week to week.

On 2016-12-12 at 6:23 PM, fishcakes said:

I like Guatemala better in retrospect. Maybe because it's one of the earlier seasons, back when the show didn't actively try to be terrible. And I did love the incredible dumbness of the Gary Hawkins, Landscaper saga. But I kind of feel like Gabon was where the show took a turn for the worse, in terms of casting, and except for a few players who were both likeable and memorable after that, it's mostly been a slow downhill slide.

Since "game-changer" is Survivor's new pet phrase, it's worth noting that Sugar was a major game-changer but not really for the better.  While other players (Fairplay, Rupert, Cesternino) had been definitely playing up a persona to the camera prior to Gabon, they were all still clearly trying to win.  Sugar felt like the first player who was specifically just trying to be a TV character and either didn't care about the actual game or realized early that she wasn't going to win so she just went into business for herself.

Amazon and Gabon are interesting seasons to pair together like this since both were early cases of the Survivor editors not painting a clear picture for us.  Jenna's 6-1 win was a shocker since she had been presented as a mean girl and Matt was presented as an odd but generally hard-working dude....in reality, she was very well liked and Matt was seen as a legitimate nutbar by the jury.  In Gabon, the show steered into the Sugar curve by making her the central character and a "hero," in spite of the fact that everyone out there hated her.  (Not that this was necessarily a knock on Sugar, since most of the Gabon cast seemed like lousy people.)

[peachmangosteen]

15 hours ago, KHenry14 said:

I guess I'm one of the few who enjoyed Gabon.

I enjoyed Gabon but it was in a love to hate kinda way. So many people that season were just horrible. And the ones that weren't horrible were stupid! But I had fun hating almost everyone so I enjoyed it. I also personally loved watching Sugar, so that helped. And it produced my deep-seated (and probably irrational) hatred for Bob and I find that hatred comforting!

Edited December 17, 2016 by peachmangosteen

[Lantern7]

Funny115 focuses on Tarzan . . . and Troyzan, to a lesser extent. At least we didn't get fucking Colton again.

[LadyChatts]

I just got done re-watching Cook Islands.  Still very much a top 10 season for me, but dang, did my opinion change about Yul.  I still like him, and he totally deserved that win (more so on re-watch than I remember), but he came off as a bit of a jerk.  I remember thinking that initially in the beginning when he clashed with Cao Boi, but even after the merge, there was a little bit of arrogance about him.  On the other hand, my infatuation with Ozzy the first time around made me blind to the kind of game Yul was playing.  I was impressed that he pretty much listed ways he was a threat to win, and yet no one seemed to put the target on him.  Even him having the idol seemed to slip UTR to some people (namely the Raro tribe, who refused to take Jonathan's hint that he might have it).  Also, Becky was more visible than I remember her being.  I think there was more to her game that we were never shown.  I've always wanted to see Becky and Sundra return in a season without Ozzy and Yul, just to see how they could play without the safety net of those two taking charge.  I think Becky could be surprising. 

Adam, I admit I liked a lot more on re-watch too.  He was obnoxious, but in a goofy way.  He had an amazing smile.  Candice I didn't get the appeal with then, and I can't believe she's been invited back/considered for a return as many times as she has.  

Edited December 22, 2016 by LadyChatts