19 Things I Hate About You: How the Duggars Infuriate

[DoctorWhovian]

I have a problem with people who act elitist about their lack of formal education (or education).

 

Nobody thinks that they [themselves] are dumb. Some of those people are wrong. Sure, don't make people feel bad because you are smarter. But some people just are smarter than others, and that's ok. Getting into Harvard on your own merits (i.e., not because your parent is a graduate) deserves congratulations and is unequivocably harder than getting into your local state school. You can be "smart" and graduate from the local state school, and be successful, and provide for your family, but you cannot deny that the kid with the Harvard diploma is going to be looked at differently, and if you both apply to a job with nothing but your diploma as evidence of your hard work, the Harvard kid is probably going to look better. (As a note, I have been to public school my entire life, I am currently in graduate school at a public institution, which is well ranked but not high ranked, and I am technically the first person in my family to graduate college.)

 

Sorry, it just really bothers me, as a person who strives to be educated (both through formal school, and just by reading and working on my own), and then I have to listen to people go on about how smart they are, or how unnecessary school is, and that people universities are just the liberal elite sitting in their ivory towers. It's as if not being educated as become a badge of honor among certain groups within the US. And the ones who are the most vocal about it are the ones that come across the worst (read: The Duggars, the Smith children).

[toodles]

Sorry but education is too important to not get educated. A mind is a terrible thing to waste. If you don't want to go to college fine. Not everyone is made for college, however nobody in this country should be lacking education. Take advantage of it. Something the Duggars don't do. However they expect others to have an education. Would JimChelle send their kids to a fundie doctor or dentist? My guess is no. But they sure will send their kids to a real licensed doctor or dentist that had years of schooling, loans, and training. Hypocritical

They're sure up early for interviews with the today show.

That's because there is free food on the Today show.  I saw that in an episode recently.  You would think they never saw a doughnut before.

[NikSac]

I have a problem with people who act elitist about their lack of formal education (or education).

 

Nobody thinks that they [themselves] are dumb. Some of those people are wrong. Sure, don't make people feel bad because you are smarter. But some people just are smarter than others, and that's ok.

 

I agree, and also feel that there are different kinds of smart (and dumb, for that matter).  I know people who would absolutely struggle with formal college style education, hate it, and not be very good at it, but those same people I'm thinking of are excellent trades-people (mechanics, plumbers, etc.).  I can also think of many people who are very book-smart and brilliant on paper, but can't apply those skills in the real world.

 

It seems like the Duggars don't value either one very much, though, and that bothers me. For example the time they expected the people working on their house to spend tons of extra hours on a job to "teach" the little kids how to do something that probably took them years to learn to do well. I forget what it was - laying carpet I think? 

[galax-arena]

if you both apply to a job with nothing but your diploma as evidence of your hard work, the Harvard kid is probably going to look better.

True, but I don't think that's necessarily a perception that should be encouraged. We can encourage education without crossing the line into elitism. I don't necessarily assume that the kid with the Harvard diploma worked harder or is smarter than the kid with the state school diploma, because there are so many other factors that come into play. Harvard is a school that benefits from a lot of name brand recognition. And even if you're not a legacy, things like socioeconomic status come into play; rarely does someone truly make it solely by virtue of ~bootstraps~. I have friends who have gone to Harvard. Are they smart and driven? Sure. But they also grew up in wealthy neighborhoods and went to good schools and didn't have to worry about pesky things like financial aid. Yeah, there are kids on financial assistance at Harvard, but if you're really hurting for money, it can be a lot easier swinging it at a public university. And a lower ranked school might be more willing to give out merit scholarships to entice top students. I know several brilliant people who went to state schools because those schools offered full rides.

 

But I think this is besides what the Duggars are on about, anyway. It's not just that they're sneering at the Ivies, it's that they seem to have a problem with higher education, period. And sure, not everyone is cut out for college - and intelligence isn't always a factor in determining that; sometimes it's just where your personal interests lie - but we should at least encourage everyone to have the opportunity. You don't have to go to college, but it should be because you truly don't want to, and not because you can't. The Duggars are doing so much to stifle their children's intellectual growth and stimulation that they're more the latter. Although, I mean, they're famous, so they might be able to buy their way into a college anyway.

[NausetGirl]

I agree, and also feel that there are different kinds of smart (and dumb, for that matter).  I know people who would absolutely struggle with formal college style education, hate it, and not be very good at it, but those same people I'm thinking of are excellent trades-people (mechanics, plumbers, etc.).  I can also think of many people who are very book-smart and brilliant on paper, but can't apply those skills in the real world.

 

It seems like the Duggars don't value either one very much, though, and that bothers me. For example the time they expected the people working on their house to spend tons of extra hours on a job to "teach" the little kids how to do something that probably took them years to learn to do well. I forget what it was - laying carpet I think? 

 

An excellent point. We all have different skills and abilities - and ALL these skills are needed in the world today. The sooner we all recognize this fact the better. When I speak about post-secondary education, I'm including trade schools and other institutions that do not necessarily offer four-year degrees, but train people for basically, blue-collar work. There are fewer skilled tradesmen every year in the US - fewers carpenters, plumbers, electricians, masons, bricklayers, tailors, painters, artists, cabinetmakers and many many other fields. Trades in which it takes years of practice and experience to become truly skilled. Take a look at that program that used to be part of the Discover lineup - Dirty Jobs.  It's eye-opening how quickly these fields are "dissolving." And fields that are being looked down upon because they do not require years of classroom study and result basically, in the end, with white-collar work. We need to encourage more skilled blue-collar work as well, because everyone is capable of making vital contributions to the economy and society as a whole - not just college graduates.

Edited December 9, 2014 by NausetGirl

[Betweenyouandme]

A few related but still pretty random thoughts:

Yeah, not everyone who can get into Harvard decides to go there for tons of reasons.

It's weird to meet someone quick of wit who hates learning about history, English, science, world events, or *something.*

I like to admire effort.

What I don't respect is someone being high and mighty about how smart they are compared to most every other person. People are born with a variety of mental capabilities and opportunities. I can see wanting to learn, but I hate when people go on and on about how naturally brilliant they are like they're responsible for their natural IQ. Be happy with your efforts and successes, but I don't respect a "better than everyone" attitude...no matter what they accomplish or how much they feel they are a naturally undiscovered genius.

I think JimBob falls in the category of thinking he was born with a great IQ thanks to himself and God because God knew he was just soooooo special.

Anyone of us could have been born with a low IQ or have some sort of TBI. I don't look down on people who are. There are different intelligences, and they are all on a sliding scale. With effort, many people can compensate some, but I try not to judge.

[Scottish Girl]

I could talk all day about the things about this family that get on my nerves, but I think my big one is, "NIKE." What a bunch of self important assholes. I have 4 daughters, who I think dress appropriately for their age. But,even if they dressed like total Jezebels, that's my business. God help the stuck-up fundie who said "NIKE" because they saw MY daughter (or me) and declared them defrauders! Ugh. I really hate these people and I think they are dangerous.

[NikSac]

An excellent point. We all have different skills and abilities - and ALL these skills are needed in the world today. The sooner we all recognize this fact the better. When I speak about post-secondary education, I'm including trade schools and other institutions that do not necessarily offer four-year degrees, but train people for basically, blue-collar work. There are fewer skilled tradesmen every year in the US - fewers carpenters, plumbers, electricians, masons, bricklayers, tailors, painters, artists, cabinetmakers and many many other fields. Trades in which it takes years of practice and experience to become truly skilled. Take a look at that program that used to be part of the Discover lineup - Dirty Jobs.  It's eye-opening how quickly these fields are "dissolving." And fields that are being looked down upon because they do not require years of classroom study and result basically, in the end, with white-collar work. We need to encourage more skilled blue-collar work as well, because everyone is capable of making vital contributions to the economy and society as a whole - not just college graduates.

 

Yep, this is exactly what I was thinking of. People are fairly shocked when they realize how much a good (and I emphasize good!) mechanic can make these days. And the ones who love it really love it, plus no one's going to ship their car, house, etc. to another country to have it worked on, so, there's some level of job security.  The people who are good at these trades don't necessarily require formal education but they do require intelligence, and usually the ability to practice and learn from someone experienced. It seems to me like the Duggars think of "skill" in this type of job as "watched someone do it once," which makes me really sad because they're just not acknowledging the amount of effort that went into learning it. It's like they're against a lot of forms of education - not just college but also getting too much experience in any particular trade.

[maraleia]

So we know that they aren't allowed to watch TV and that's so sad because I could see the older girls loving a show like Pretty Little Liars if given the chance to actually watch the show.

[merylinkid]

They don't value anyone putting any effort into anything because they don't put any effort into anything except having a bunch of kids.   Seriously, their claim to fame is they had 19 kids.   Like that is a huge accomplishment.   No, its just a lot of sex.    Doesn't even really have to take that long (although it should).    Literally like 19 minutes of effort there buddy.   

 

To garden so the kids have fresh vegetables -- effort.

 

To have enough bedrooms for everyone -- effort.

 

To get out the damn door on time -- effort.

 

Have organized meals so people can eat healthy and economically -- effort

 

To give your kids skills so they can be self-supporting -- effort.

 

These people are the laziest folks on the planet.

[wovenloaf]

For example the time they expected the people working on their house to spend tons of extra hours on a job to "teach" the little kids how to do something that probably took them years to learn to do well. I forget what it was - laying carpet I think?

UGH! That happened?! How ludicrous.

[GEML]

For the record, I have a BA from a very decent but not outstanding State University, where I met my husband, first in his family to go to college. He holds an MA from and Ivy League and a JD from a Top Ten law school.

So when I say I know about the value of education, I'm not kidding. It vaulted my family from the abject poor to the middle class and my husband outright soared because of it.

And credentials open doors. I won't deny it. Especially when you have nothing else behind you, such as money or family name.

But I still will say that I've known a lot of people with no education that have created a great life for themselves, just as I've known some real asses with credentials to die for. (Again, I live in DC.)

What TO ME makes the difference is the arrogance people bring to their lives. My husband could be the poster child for "look at me, I did it all right" but he would be the last person to do this and the first to admit his mistakes. (We made soooo many and still screw up from time to time!)

The elitism of the "do as I do" from anyone grates on me like nothing else. There are a lot of reasons why people make good or poor decisions, and I don't need to make people replicate mine (including my children) to feel good about them or validate them. JB and Michelle have to have everyone make X choice, all the same, or maybe their choices are wrong. It's not their lack of education that bothers me, but their fear of it.

[Barb23]

I'm watching the Little Couple and it's so nice to see them NOT kissing every 5 minutes or professing their love to one another. We know Bill & Jen are happily married & thank God they don't have to keep showing or telling us.

[cmr2014]

I agree with everyone who has been remarking on the Duggar's lack of interest in education.

 

There is a strong steak of anti-intellectualism in America, and it has been around for a long time. One hundred years ago, you could make a valid point that a person with a degree wasn't necessarily "smarter" than the average farmer or worker. Only a very few people -- usually very wealthy -- were able to go to college. There were plenty of very smart people who worked as farmers, factory workers, and housekeepers -- that's just not the case anymore. And there are plenty of people in this camp who take aggressive pride in their lack of education.

 

It's not just a university education, though. Virtually any career-path job requires training and dedication. You don't become a mechanic, or a plumber, or a carpet layer (sorry JB) without some actual effort.

 

And the Duggars just don't make any effort. Aside from universities, there are Christian colleges, community colleges, and trade schools. There are libraries in virtually every town in America -- and those libraries provide internet access for people who don't have on-line access at home. There are educational books, videos, and DVDs.

 

The whole world is available to them, but they don't have access to anything that JB and J'chelle haven't pre-approved for its Godly content. Taking a few on-line courses to pass the bare-bones requirements for home-schooling in Arkansas is not providing an education. The fact that J'chelle thought some workbooks on bankruptcy would be a good option for teaching math to her grade-school aged children shows how unsuited she is to home-school.

[DoctorWhovian]

It's not just that they have no education. It's that they think they are better because of it.

[Joe Jitsu913]

Jim Bob doesn't want his kids to go to college for two reasons: he's a cheapskate who doesn't want to pay tuition and he doesn't want his children to "upstage" him. He wants them to continue to rely on him. He loses the power and authority if his chidren get a higher education.

[Darknight]

They don't value anyone putting any effort into anything because they don't put any effort into anything except having a bunch of kids. Seriously, their claim to fame is they had 19 kids. Like that is a huge accomplishment. No, its just a lot of sex. Doesn't even really have to take that long (although it should). Literally like 19 minutes of effort there buddy.

To garden so the kids have fresh vegetables -- effort.

To have enough bedrooms for everyone -- effort.

To get out the damn door on time -- effort.

Have organized meals so people can eat healthy and economically -- effort

To give your kids skills so they can be self-supporting -- effort.

These people are the laziest folks on the planet.

It take a lot of effort to have sex and make babies. There's a bunch of math, reading, and mechanical stuff involved. Lol.

Jim Bob doesn't want his kids to go to college for two reasons: he's a cheapskate who doesn't want to pay tuition and he doesn't want his children to "upstage" him. He wants them to continue to rely on him. He loses the power and authority if his chidren get a higher education.

I think some kids are smarter than him. And if tlc offered or one of the kids got a scholarship there's no excuse on money

[cmr2014]

You're so right, Joe Jitsu. JB doles out the jobs and businesses to the boys, and the husbands to the girls -- he's in complete control. If one of those kids could support him/herself, not only would JB lose control over that kid, but the other would see that there are options, too.

 

It's kind of like the old Iron Curtain countries -- if life is so great there, why do you have to work so hard to prevent people from leaving?

[GEML]

It's not just that they have no education. It's that they think they are better because of it.

This. This is what gets on my nerves.

[Barb23]

Jim Bob doesn't want his kids to go to college for two reasons: he's a cheapskate who doesn't want to pay tuition and he doesn't want his children to "upstage" him. He wants them to continue to rely on him. He loses the power and authority if his chidren get a higher education.

Amen! Like we've said before, almost all parents want better for their children than they had.

I wonder if any of the kids have asked Boob if they could go to college, even a couple of College Minus courses or get a job that is not Duggar related. I think I answered my own question - Josiah & his (more than usual) trips to Alert. But at least he gets away from the circus.

As someone recently posted, what do the older ones do all day? John Doofus is the only one who seems to have a job. Most parents motto is: you go to school or college or get a job or both. Do they even have their own bank accounts or does Boob dole out allowances?

I wonder what Grandma and Deanna think of this. I wish they would do a Q & A with them.

[galax-arena]

It's not just that they have no education. It's that they think they are better because of it.

Education is too worldly, dontcha know. 

[merylinkid]

Malala is receiving the Nobel Peace Prize today for her campaigning for girls' education.    She was shot in the head just for going to school.   Yet the Duggars can't sacrifice the time or effort to make sure their kids have even basic educational skills.    

[Jellybeans]

I wonder about the older adults (they are not kids!) like Jana who do not work, go to school, etc... I would hope they have considered her welfare down the road if she should not marry say by the age of 35. What kind of financial security will she have? Or do they have some kind of "Old Maid's Trust Fund" for her for when they pass away?

[Betweenyouandme]

Malala is receiving the Nobel Peace Prize today for her campaigning for girls' education. She was shot in the head just for going to school. Yet the Duggars can't sacrifice the time or effort to make sure their kids have even basic educational skills.

I'm sorry, but i don't think the two are related unless the Duggars try to actively oppose education for other children not in their family. If their religious belief is that homeschooling is better, I don't think that in and of itself is awful of them. I don't think the way they homeschool sets them up to do much later, especially if they encourage their kids to avoid most higher learning. However, I don't think that because one person faces violence for sticking up for the rights they want means that every other person has to use that same right if they are able to do so.

I'd have a huge problem if the Duggars made a nasty comment about Malala. But, I don't have a problem that they don't value education JUST because Malala suffered fighting for it.

For instance, I'm all for other women having the same rights at work as men. However, I don't work and don't want to. I don't feel like I'm obligated to work JUST because women have and still do fight for these rights. I respect their right to do as they feel led. I do not fight or argue against that. I just don't participate in those rights.

And, the Duggars have said there are lots of instances where public school does good. They have also gone into public schools to read and play music.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Betweenyouandme

[Jynnan tonnix]

Another thing is how little they care about anything else aside from the idea of "serving God" (which really only translates into the idea of a ticket to heaven rather than actual service as far as I can see).

 

Overpopulation? A humungous carbon footprint? Not their problem. I don't know what their stance is on the "end times" and rapture, but they have no thought toward leaving the world any better for anyone else as long as they get to live their massively selfish lives as they see fit. They don't even seem to give a thought towards what things will be like for their own descendants in a couple more generations if they all continue on the same path.

[3girlsforus]

I would absolutely love to see the looks on their faces, and hear their stammering responses.  IMO, if TLC truly wants to keep this program alive - and that's pretty questionable considering the way they've been presenting it in recent months - that's the tack they need to take with the Duggars. Challenge them to defend their beliefs. Because this particular one - blowing off education and specifically, trying to convince others it's not important - is just about the most ludicrous of their beliefs - at least to me.

 

I would be stunned if TLC took an approach like this. They coddle the Sister Wives and their insane beliefs as well but never challenge them. I just don't think they want to. 

[3girlsforus]

For the record, I have a BA from a very decent but not outstanding State University, where I met my husband, first in his family to go to college. He holds an MA from and Ivy League and a JD from a Top Ten law school.

So when I say I know about the value of education, I'm not kidding. It vaulted my family from the abject poor to the middle class and my husband outright soared because of it.

And credentials open doors. I won't deny it. Especially when you have nothing else behind you, such as money or family name.

But I still will say that I've known a lot of people with no education that have created a great life for themselves, just as I've known some real asses with credentials to die for. (Again, I live in DC.)

What TO ME makes the difference is the arrogance people bring to their lives. My husband could be the poster child for "look at me, I did it all right" but he would be the last person to do this and the first to admit his mistakes. (We made soooo many and still screw up from time to time!)

The elitism of the "do as I do" from anyone grates on me like nothing else. There are a lot of reasons why people make good or poor decisions, and I don't need to make people replicate mine (including my children) to feel good about them or validate them. JB and Michelle have to have everyone make X choice, all the same, or maybe their choices are wrong. It's not their lack of education that bothers me, but their fear of it.

As another from the DC area.... THIS!!! Educational elitism is bad on both ends of the spectrum. You have to Duggars who think they are hot stuff because they don't value education and then those around here who think your educational choices are Ivy League and UVA. (maybe VATech if you are an engineer). Heck they even call James Madison University (which is an excellent school) JMU - Just Missed UVA. UGH Both sides make me want to strangle someone. 

[Higgins]

I only started watching this show after reading the forums. I keep looking for the things discussed here and for the most part, I just don't see it. Yes, they have extreme views but they don't come across particularly smug to me. The kids seem nice and well behaved. The parents bug me but, they don't seem like terrible people. There was a time, not so long ago, where families this size were somewhat common and in large families the older children were expected to help raise the younger ones and it wasn't considered abuse.

[maraleia]

Higgins- The reason why you aren't seeing the extreme stuff on the TV show is because it's carefully edited per the Duggars contract with the network. That's why we never see that Josh works for FRC which the Southern Poverty Law Center has named as a hate group, the anti-LGBT and anti-choice political stuff they do and the way they discipline their kids.

[Jellybeans]

I keep waiting for Focus on the Family to be named as a hate group.

[3girlsforus]

It's a bit much to call pro-life supporters a 'hate group'. 

[galax-arena]

Higgins- The reason why you aren't seeing the extreme stuff on the TV show is because it's carefully edited per the Duggars contract with the network.

Yep, and it's why we didn't see Michelle recording her robocall where she compared transgender people to child molesters in an effort to defeat an anti-discrimination ordinance. (Speaking of which, I'm sure she's just thrilled that the repeal succeeded.) We're not getting an honest picture of these people.

 

Plus, take it with a grain of salt because anonymous Internet culture and all that jazz, but a number of people who claim to have encountered the Duggars without the cameras on have said that the children act rather spoiled and obnoxious. 

It's a bit much to call pro-life supporters a 'hate group'.

If you're referring to Focus on the Family, that's not why most people think they're a hate group. 

Edited December 10, 2014 by galax-arena

[NausetGirl]

I would be stunned if TLC took an approach like this. They coddle the Sister Wives and their insane beliefs as well but never challenge them. I just don't think they want to. 

 

I'm be stunned too - there's no way TLC would adopt this approach. But something tells me the ratings would increase if they did. However at that point I believe the Duggars would quit. Boob and Mechelle - IMO - aren't up to a real challenge of their beliefs. And would definitely not like questions they hadn't pre-approved. Or questions for which they hadn't concocted BS replies.

[Jellybeans]

It's a bit much to call pro-life supporters a 'hate group'.

They hate everyone. Including gays. And the Little League. I don't like to give them rent space in my head.

[maraleia]

3girlsforus Here is the link to the SPLC page about the FRC and its more about them being anti-LGBT http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/groups/family-research-council

[Jellybeans]

Focus on the Family still has the bullet holes in the entry way "proudly displayed" with a sign explaining how they came under attack and persevered! Ugh. I have seen them myself. I had to take a shower afterwards.

I do not remember what year that happened. It's on the internet I am sure.

[galax-arena]

And the Little League.

Dude, what did the Little League ever do to them? 

[Jellybeans]

Dude, what did the Little League ever do to them?

very controversial decision- http://gazette.com/large-development-to-replace-ballfields-on-focus-on-the-family-land-in-colorado-springs/article/1539284

FOTF can use the vacant buildings they already own as far as I am concerned. We have too many empty buildings. And the Little League has ALWAYS been there for a $1 a year.

[NausetGirl]

As another from the DC area.... THIS!!! Educational elitism is bad on both ends of the spectrum. You have to Duggars who think they are hot stuff because they don't value education and then those around here who think your educational choices are Ivy League and UVA. (maybe VATech if you are an engineer). Heck they even call James Madison University (which is an excellent school) JMU - Just Missed UVA. UGH Both sides make me want to strangle someone. 

 

I think we're beginning to talk about two different things here.  Being educated - by any means whether it is formal, credentialled coursework or just reading and studying on one's own - is one thing. Educational elitism - which I consider to be someone who never misses a chance to mention where they went to school - "Oh yes, I went to Hah-vahd Law School yadda yadda yadda..." is another thing entirely. The Duggars put down higher education in general and refuse to recognize the untold benefits it could bring to their own children, that it brings to society in general. They even go so far as to view themselves as "superior" because they do not have post-secondary training and/or college degrees. On the issue of elitism, I have to say I'm just not that impressed anymore by WHERE someone attended school. I was when I was 20 - and clueless. But now I know that despite a school's reputation and ranking, education is only as good as the effort and enthusiasm the student puts into it. Someone may goof his way through a classics program at Harvard for four years. Someone else may machete his way through a two-year community college business program.  Who was smarter - and better-educated - in the long run?

Edited December 10, 2014 by NausetGirl

[DamWrite]

I only started watching this show after reading the forums. I keep looking for the things discussed here and for the most part, I just don't see it. Yes, they have extreme views but they don't come across particularly smug to me. The kids seem nice and well behaved. The parents bug me but, they don't seem like terrible people. There was a time, not so long ago, where families this size were somewhat common and in large families the older children were expected to help raise the younger ones and it wasn't considered abuse.

Yes, older kids usually help with the younger ones, but they aren't given a child(ren) to raise on their own.  That's what the Duggars do.  At a certain age, the older girls are responsible for what J&M deceptively call a "buddy."  The older girl is entirely responsible for that child.  Mind you, they don't get one kid as their buddy.  It's usually three or four.  Michelle and JB don't parent these kids.  Their siblings do.  It's all sorts of wrong to steal your child's youth so she can raise your other children.

 

In addition to parenting their siblings, they have "jurisdictions."  The rest of humanity would call them chores, except it goes beyond that.  One girl is responsible for all cooking, for example.  Another is responsible for another household chore, and on and on.    

 

Michelle and JB do nothing with or for their children.  At one time, Michelle home schooled them.  She abdicated that role and now the kids take online courses.

 

It infuriates me, obviously, that Michelle and JB wanted so many children, but have zero interest in raising them.      

Edited December 10, 2014 by DamWrite

[wovenloaf]

Yes, older kids usually help with the younger ones, but they aren't given a child(ren) to raise on their own.  That's what the Duggars do.  At a certain age, the older girls are responsible for what J&M deceptively call a "buddy."  The older girl is entirely responsible for that child.  Mind you, they don't get one kid as their buddy.  It's usually three or four.  Michelle and JB don't parent these kids.  Their siblings do.  It's all sorts of wrong to steal your child's youth so she can raise your other children. 

Yes, I think this is the main distinction. My father is the 10th of 11 children, and while his older sisters certainly helped out, they weren't expected to give up having friends/having a normal teenage life/etc. just so they could be home to get little ones ready for bed or whatever. Of course, the Duggars wouldn't let their kids do normal teenage things anyway, but you get my point! The Duggars really seem to go overboard with the whole "older kids helping" thing, by just using it as some sort of excuse to get out of doing normal parenting activities. 

[GEML]

I didn't mind the original buddy system. If you look at families like the Gilbreths in CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN (originals, not the Steve Martin movie) they used this system. It makes sense, as any elementary teacher will tell you.

But the little surrogate families that developed under each of the older daughters was carrying things too far. Why not continue the buddy system down the line, as that way each child continued to learn responsibility? I think this is closer to what the Bates do, and it makes more sense at every level. The idea that Jana, Jill, Jessa and Jinger should each be responsible for four children is ridiculous. They aren't the parents.

(And if you went to Harvard Law School you don't say you went to Harvard Law School - that's gauche. You say, "I studied law in Boston.") ;)

[Barb23]

Yes, I think this is the main distinction. My father is the 10th of 11 children, and while his older sisters certainly helped out, they weren't expected to give up having friends/having a normal teenage life/etc. just so they could be home to get little ones ready for bed or whatever. Of course, the Duggars wouldn't let their kids do normal teenage things anyway, but you get my point! The Duggars really seem to go overboard with the whole "older kids helping" thing, by just using it as some sort of excuse to get out of doing normal parenting activities.

And according to MEchelle, the older ones LOVE to help with the littles. Yeah, right.

On another note, I wonder if the kids have driven anywhere by themselves. (Besides John Doofus driving the tow truck.) I know my son couldn't wait for the first time he could drive by himself after he got his license, which was about 2 hours. It's such a shame they can't be by themselves anywhere. I guess the bathroom is about it.

[Darknight]

Malala is receiving the Nobel Peace Prize today for her campaigning for girls' education. She was shot in the head just for going to school. Yet the Duggars can't sacrifice the time or effort to make sure their kids have even basic educational skills.

Maybe they think she deserved it after all a woman is only good for sex and babies. And I feel so bad for this young girl. She shouldn't have to rush her own life to get educated. I'm glad she's being recognized

As another from the DC area.... THIS!!! Educational elitism is bad on both ends of the spectrum. You have to Duggars who think they are hot stuff because they don't value education and then those around here who think your educational choices are Ivy League and UVA. (maybe VATech if you are an engineer). Heck they even call James Madison University (which is an excellent school) JMU - Just Missed UVA. UGH Both sides make me want to strangle someone.

I went to Harvard:) Yes I'm bragging. I'm better than all of you. Ugh you know I hate this kind of mentality. And Harvard is way overrated anyway. The thing is with the Duggars they do value any education. It's JimChelles way or nothing. Funny because JimChelle went tot real school

I'm sorry, but i don't think the two are related unless the Duggars try to actively oppose education for other children not in their family. If their religious belief is that homeschooling is better, I don't think that in and of itself is awful of them. I don't think the way they homeschool sets them up to do much later, especially if they encourage their kids to avoid most higher learning. However, I don't think that because one person faces violence for sticking up for the rights they want means that every other person has to use that same right if they are able to do so.

I'd have a huge problem if the Duggars made a nasty comment about Malala. But, I don't have a problem that they don't value education JUST because Malala suffered fighting for it.

For instance, I'm all for other women having the same rights at work as men. However, I don't work and don't want to. I don't feel like I'm obligated to work JUST because women have and still do fight for these rights. I respect their right to do as they feel led. I do not fight or argue against that. I just don't participate in those rights.

And, the Duggars have said there are lots of instances where public school does good. They have also gone into public schools to read and play music.

Read what? They can't play music. The only reason why they went is because they have nothing else to do. Jill couldn't even recommend a good book.

[mimionthebeach]

I wouldn't put it past them to have potty buddies.

Jellybeans is my prayer closet buddy!!!

They probably have accountability timers on the bathroom locks so no one gets up to anything... unrighteously fulfilling.

[Scottish Girl]

Education takes many forms. I'm a sahm, with a high school diploma. I've taken some courses at the local community college, but with 5 kids, there's always so many other things to do. BUT, I learn something new every day. I've lost hours falling down the Wikipedia time suck. Lol

I see or hear something interesting, Google it, and click on links until I've gone from the Battle at Gettysburg to Natalie Wood. (Seriously, that can happen.)

The bummer about the Duggar family is that they, literally, don't have that opportunity. They can't hear beautiful music and wonder about the composer. They can't read a trashy romance novel and Google "garderobe." They can't watch the news and have a discussion about the First Amendment or even wonder what a polar vortex is. It's the saddest thing I can think of. Like, how can you go through your whole life and not shaking your booty to a Prince song and not be able to learn that's he's a musical savant? I can get down with religious conservatives, even if I don't agree. I can get down with the modesty issues, even if they disgust me. I can even be okay with exponential breeding, if that's what you faith calls for. But I will never be okay with willful ignorance.

[Barb23]

Education takes many forms. I'm a sahm, with a high school diploma. I've taken some courses at the local community college, but with 5 kids, there's always so many other things to do. BUT, I learn something new every day. I've lost hours falling down the Wikipedia time suck. Lol

I see or hear something interesting, Google it, and click on links until I've gone from the Battle at Gettysburg to Natalie Wood. (Seriously, that can happen.)

The bummer about the Duggar family is that they, literally, don't have that opportunity. They can't hear beautiful music and wonder about the composer. They can't read a trashy romance novel and Google "garderobe." They can't watch the news and have a discussion about the First Amendment or even wonder what a polar vortex is. It's the saddest thing I can think of. Like, how can you go through your whole life and not shaking your booty to a Prince song and not be able to learn that's he's a musical savant? I can get down with religious conservatives, even if I don't agree. I can get down with the modesty issues, even if they disgust me. I can even be okay with exponential breeding, if that's what you faith calls for. But I will never be okay with willful ignorance.

Beautifully said.

[Barb23]

Just saw in our Aldi ad that all kinds of paper plates are on sale. In case the Duggars need to stock up for Christmas dinner, parties, etc. Also noticed there are flatware sets on sale as well as porcelain plate sets if they wanted to go formal.

[NausetGirl]

And if you went to Harvard Law School you don't say you went to Harvard Law School - that's gauche. You say, "I studied law in Boston.") ;)

 

You know GEML, you're probably right.  And that's even worse. That's really passive elitisim. Someone that says that is trying to look humble, yet still making it clear to anyone with a brain that just exactly where he went to law school. And someone who needs to do that is an insecure person.

[maraleia]

Perfectamundo as Fonzie would say Brian. Thanks for testing it out. Brian you are a wonderful addition to the site. Keep posting away!!!