Kim Richards: No Escape from Witch Mountain

[zoeysmom]

Here is the last in a series of trainers comments:  http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2015/01/kim-richards-pit-bull-trained-attack-dog/

[Satchels of gold]

It is bizarrely worded. I think maybe he means a willingness and drive to attack humans. Like he'd never seen a dog so willing and set on being aggressive to humans.

I think your right . That is oddly worded. It makes it sounds like he loves humans not like he loves to eat them.

[zoeysmom]

Another trainer weighs in and some legal news-the motion for Bravo to be dismissed from the lawsuit is being heard today.  http://www.realitytea.com/2015/03/24/kim-richards-dog-bite-victim-still-seeking-justice-bravo-dog-trainer-says-kims-dog-nuts/

[quinn]

"I have never experienced such a willingness and drive towards humans as Kingsley"  <  -  I might be a bit slow, but I'm not sure I even understand this statement.

 

I'm assuming this statement was made by the trainer that Kim had hired ?   

 

Was he trying to say the "willingness and drive"  was AGGRESSION?  I'm guessing it was, but it's worded so oddly !

Here is the full statement:

Kyle shared, “I will tell you he is the most dangerous dog I have worked with in terms of his level of aggression. I’ve trained more dangerous dogs like Neos and Corsos. But I have never experienced such a willingness and drive towards humans as Kingsley. One trainer was attacked, one was unable to enter the house, one FaceTimed Kim and was unwilling to enter the house.” ”

 

I take it to mean that Kingsley had a higher propensity to be aggressive towards humans.

[Giselle]

It wouldn't surprise me if one day you hear on the news that a dog got loose and killed a child or that it severely mauled it's owner and it turns out to be Kim. I'd have no sympathy for her if it happened. If a dog is that much of a danger to people it should be put down. Period. It can never be trusted. If people think that's cruel I say it even more cruel to have that dog, for the rest of it's life, live in a cage or dog run and to have it wear a muzzle if it does taste freedom out side it's cage. I think that is even more cruel.

 

I hope Kim and Bravo lose the lawsuit filed against them by her bitten family friend, I hope they compel Kyle and Alexa to testify and that they pay through the nose. Kingsley can't be trusted and should be put down. In this instance I value human health and life over a dog's.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Giselle

[jnymph]

Wow, so Kim's had MULTIPLE trainers for Kingsley !  (thank you to all who have posted this info!)

 

In this case, I agree with Giselle's post. (above me)    The most humane thing to do is to put Kingsley down at this point.   It's a no-brainer. 

 

Geez.  I can't help but think of that absolutely lovely Golden Retriever she owned prior to Kingsley, "Savannah" (that passed away)    (I am NOT bashing Pits.  I'm simply saying that Savannah was such a beautiful dog.)

Edited March 27, 2015 by jnymph

[suomi]

I've shared before than when my father finally got sober after 30 years, there was much excitment among us all that we would see this different person.  Someone who cared about us and our needs, who wanted to be present in our lives after years of really only wanting to around for the booze. We never walked away. Not any of his kids, or his 3 ex-wives. Therapists had told us to not expect something so drastic. We had to be realistic about our expectations. You still set them very high after years of agony. A couple of years later my brother famously said to us all "huh, all those years blaming the booze. Turns out that dad is just an asshole". It  might not be that there is really any good left in Kim. It might just be that the people around her are better than she is. 

 

This post, along with so many others here, reminds me of what a nice ol' cowpoke told me at one of my first Al Anon meetings about 40 years ago when I was young and had stars and hope in my eyes: "Sis, when a drunken hoss thief sobers up, sometimes you're left with a hoss thief. And that's a fact."

[zoeysmom]

Diving with the Stars video-it made me laugh.  They both looked nice in their swimsuits. http://stoopidhousewives.com/2015/03/26/rhobh-reunion-preview-talkin-professional-pride-lisarinna-made-a-million-for-depends-ad-kimrichards11kylerichards-bravotv/

Edited March 27, 2015 by zoeysmom

[SoCal4Us]

It wouldn't surprise me if one day you hear on the news that a dog got loose and killed a child or that it severely mauled it's owner and it turns out to be Kim. I'd have no sympathy for her if it happened. If a dog is that much of a danger to people it should be put down. Period. It can never be trusted. If people think that's cruel I say it even more cruel to have that dog, for the rest of it's life, live in a cage or dog run and to have it wear a muzzle if it does taste freedom out side it's cage. I think that is even more cruel.

 

I hope Kim and Bravo lose the lawsuit filed against them by her bitten family friend, I hope they compel Kyle and Alexa to testify and that they pay through the nose. Kingsley can't be trusted and should be put down. In this instance I value human health and life over a dog's.

Agreed.  This would be my biggest fear as a neighbor or as the owner!  Put the dog down, keep the ashes in an urn.  Kim obviously should have already done this.

[Sincerely Yours]

I don't see it that way. Any breed can be dangerous. I'm talking about that particular dog. Some dogs CAN'T be rehabilitated. It's possible Kingsley was from a singleton litter and if he was and he didn't get the proper socialization in the first vital imprinting weeks of life, way before Kim had anything to do with him, he may never be a reliable companion. You can never get those weeks back.

 

Are she and John Davis drug buddies too? Even if Monty and Kim share addiction that doesn't mean they don't share real human affection and love. I can't understand this idea that "addicts" or people who use psychotropic substances are somehow sub-human. They aren't. They aren't rare either. We all know and love substance users. It is also very likely that we don't even know they use. They can live perfectly normal, at least as "normal" as any human can be, lives.

Its really sad to see human nature work. On these shows the women exhibit behavior that they would most likely have a better handle on in their normal day to day activities but once the cameras are rolling it's like the biggest excuse to indulge in these mean tendencies that I truly believe is within the most gentle soul. The reason I have a soft spot for Kim is that I think for all her "secrets"  and need to not engage in certain conversations during certain situations she's the only one I believe tries to express herself honestly. Not without reservations and not without holes in her version of things but I always get the impression that when she does have conversations she's truly trying to express her honest emotions. I've heard her make some rather interesting declarations and mention some really interesting feelings that I was very eager to hear a complete conversation about. I know that Kim is said to be the one to start shouting liar and shifting things when she doesn't like what she's hearing but in all of the conversations that Kim and Kyle have had has Kyle ever let Kim express something and then continue the conversation focused on exploring what Kim has said. Kyle either interrupts with her own complaints or responds with something that mirrors what Kim has just expressed. "Kyle, I think there are underlying things that I thought I've let go of but that I still feel hurt by" , "Kim, and you've hurt me". Their conversations are about them one upping each other and to be honest I've noticed that Kyle is usually the one to shift the idea away from the conversation Kim is trying to have with her. I think that's the reason why am still in Kim's corner.

 

I've seen Kim try and have a genuine conversation with Kyle but Kyle doesn't take advantage of the openings she gets from Kim instead Kyle usually steers the conversation into a back and forth with her listing her gripes and grievances. I'm not saying that Kyle doesn't have anything to get off her chest but she usually uses her baggage as ammunition when Kim tries to express her own baggage. Baggage that would make Kyle look bad. Notice a lot of what Kyle has been frog crying about over the seasons is what's she's gone through, what she's had to put up with etc. etc. but not once have we really had a look inside of what Kim has gone through with Kyle. What she's put up with, what grievances she's had with Kyle. Aside from the house issue, there's never really been a conversation that's run it's course or has even taken off in the direction in which she starts it.  It usually ends on a different note, or aggressively, or with a different point altogether. Kim isn't the one that always derails those conversations. Somehow, when Kim does try to initiate a conversation that would go into where her resentments stem from you don't ever really get to specifics or any real input.

 

In season one Kim tried a couple of times with minor things but you could see the hurt she was trying to convey and Kyle usually has this wave of the hand response to her. Then after season one, she softened up but if you see Kyle's demeanor during season one you see a more abrupt and abrasive Kyle and I don't buy it was because she was dealing with Kim's "secret". That was the true Kyle and the true way she deals with dear old alcoholic sister Kim. The way she's handled her for years. Arms length, no kit gloves, dismissive etc. I don't remember Kyle through season one coddling Kim too much. We heard Kim coming to her about things and stuff but Kyle wasn't buckling to Kim's every whim, frog crying all the time, "in pain" over all the strain between sisters. She was pretty standoffish when she wanted and didn't seem too torn during that first season. Kyle exhibited a lot of control over what she allowed Kim to affect in her life but once she was the one that outted Kim she had to figure out a way to justify that and then enters "Poor, put upon, sister Kyle" persona who joined the cast from Season 2 on.

 

During the lunch with Eileen I saw Kim make a really good point that would have been a great starting point but went no where fast because Kyle didn't want to explore what Kim was saying about lingering feelings of hurt she has with Kyle that she didn't realize were still there. Instead Kyle steered it toward Brandi and how SHE'S hurt about that. It's a shame but what I see happening is that Kim isn't allowed to voice anything. Kim's not allowed to have grievances with Kyle. Kim should be able to suck it up, swallow whatever it is and be eternally grateful that Kyle has done what she has (which honestly we only have speculations to what degree Kyle and Mauricio contributions actually are). We can assume to high heaven but when all is said and done it's also very possible that:

 

"Mauricio treats Kim like a second wife" means:  He's helped her with household affairs. Checks in, does stuff around the house, is invested in her well being.

"Kyle is close to Kim's children (and vice versa):  Not really an odd dynamic for sisters to have with each other kids.

"Kyle has promised to care for Kim": It's also been addressed that they were asked to take care of each other

"Kyle has financially contributed to Kim's life": I actually don't know where this has actually been confirmed aside from knowing that K/M covered most of the expenses for the PS home but that's hardly the same as Kim completely living off of K/M financially.

 

Thing is there's a lot of additional emphasis made on basic information that's come out in these seasons but there is nothing that suggests to me that Kyle's been "abused" any more than Kim has been "abused" in that particular relationship and for all that is Good and Holy I would love to hear a conversation that goes into the specifics coming from Kim's side and not distorted by frog crying, redirecting or inserting third parties. I really would because it is very one sided and I for one feel cheated that Kim's point of view isn't explored by default because, well Kim's not nice, and an alcoholic and points and has the nerve to not kiss the ground Kyle walks on. I mean I for one haven't seen enough to prove to me that Kim should be licking Kyle's ass crack every chance she gets and has to swallow her "misguided" perceptions of her sister.

 

Tell you what I'm not totally convinced that Kim's perception about Kyle is so off kilter. I don't think being an addict should completely discredit Kim regarding all of her past interactions with Kyle. If anything it's safe to say that Kim has the one on one experiences with Kyle so to me says that she can't be all wrong about what SHE'S lived with. Being an alcoholic doesn't mean that you completely live your live in a delusional haze while being lead around and kept alive by those around you. I mean Kim does not come across as someone who is completely out of it "at all times". Far from that. Even when she's off the wagon it seems to me that she has her bouts, her boozing days, her fearful moments, like any other person struggling with addiction but that doesn't mean that she's NEVER lucid or has a proper grasp on what her life entails.

 

Pretty arrogant to assume to know someone's else's life as absolutely as all that. Which is why I wish Kim and Kyle could get through one conversation where things are laid on the table and they focus on what the other is describing and then work with that. But that is never going to happen. Kyle gets to lay all that on the table with other people but when Kim does it iwhoever is giving her the There, There is "enabling" when in all honesty it shouldn't always be about her addiction. I truly believe she has valid resentments and grievances with Kyle that are never validated because the whole "addiction/addict" angle gets thrown in which overshadows the other issues that can never be addressed because there's this idea out there that whatever issues Kim could possibly have with Kyle is outweighed by what Kyle has had to put up with and I'm not so sure that scale is balanced. Especially since there is not enough true insight or factual accounts actual specifics within their lives over the years.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[QuinnM]

 

"Kyle has financially contributed to Kim's life": I actually don't know where this has actually been confirmed aside from knowing that K/M covered most of the expenses for the PS home but that's hardly the same as Kim completely living off of K/M financially.

One of the items that was in the tabloids for a long time back when Paris was all the news is that Kyle/Mauricio had to pay tuition for Kims kids at school or they would have been kicked out.  People had a lot of documentation to back it up.  So Kim gets $$$ in alimony and child support but is still broke.  

 

Kim can't have valid resentments or grievances because she is an addict that is not taking responsibility for her behavior when she was high.  She can't go forward with anything until she does that.  I know that she said she knows everything from all her days in and out of rehab but she is absolutely not behaving like an addict working on recovery.  And that is the main reason I believe she is still using.

[racked]

Kim really should get a cat.  I can see why she encouraged the dog's protectiveness and neediness of her, because she wanted to feel needed as her children were growing up and leaving. But wow is this woman not meant to have an aggressive dog in need of strict discipline and boundaries. Just get a cat Kim!

[Avaleigh]

Someone on here reminded me of something I hadn't thought about in a while. It was the Hawaii episode at dinner, after Kim and her jackass boyfriend had kept everyone waiting in one way or another for most of the trip. She seemed to feel she was completely innocent. Why would anyone care that she had acted in such a manner. When Kyle tried to explain it to her, she said to Kyle "well you talk on you cell phone when you drive". Huh? Everyone was kind of shocked. It was like her first instinct was to find and say something about someone else to deflect her own issues. Apparently the most horrific thing she could reach for in that moment about Kyle was cell phone conversations while driving. She did the same thing in PS when Kyle was talking about Brandi asking questions about her. She threw out "worry about your own stuff" or "even your close friends think you are a liar". She is just not a good person, sober or not. 

I mentioned Kim bringing up talking on the cell while driving in Hawaii awhile ago. I started thinking about Kim's history of trying to turn things around on people when she's confronted with her own behavior and it's a tactic she uses a lot. 

 

I don't know who the poster was but somebody compared interacting with Kim to a person accidentally getting themselves sucked into a cartoon fight cloud, getting tossed back out, and then wondering what the fuck just happened. All of the wives have learned that it isn't worth it to get into a dust up with Kim. LisaV got a dose in season 3, Brandi in season 2, Taylor in season 1, Yolanda in season 3*, plus Eileen and LisaR in this latest season. In each of these cases the women mentioned had a situation with Kim where they realized there's no point in challenging her because she's so delusional and unstable. Kyle of course has to deal with Kim being negative with her in every single season and there are numerous things that are simply unprovoked and make Kim appear to be unsympathetic.

 

*Just to be clear, with Yolanda I'm talking about the no shows pulled for the cleanse and how Kim wanted to make it seem like Yolanda was messing things up for her by daring to mention it; Kim was also threatened because stuff like that brought back memories of her season 2 behavior and she was concerned that people would suspect that she was back to her old habits.

 

I agree that Kim doesn't seem to be a person who is nice to be around when she's sober or under the influence. The hate and bitterness absolutely oozes from her pores in these situations and even during simple and basic interactions like when they're at the airport. There was no reason for Kim to be so grumpy at the airport but because of a couple of inconveniences she became an unpleasant person to be around who was tainting the trip with her negativity. 

 

I even felt deep resentment from Kim's comment about how Big Kathy would say that Kyle was the baby so she doesn't have to do anything in the kitchen. At first she seems like she's relating a happy memory and then her mouth gets thin and to me it was just apparent that this is one more thing piled in the dump truck of stuff that Kim holds against Kyle. 

Edited March 27, 2015 by Avaleigh

[Sincerely Yours]

One of the items that was in the tabloids for a long time back when Paris was all the news is that Kyle/Mauricio had to pay tuition for Kims kids at school or they would have been kicked out.  People had a lot of documentation to back it up.  So Kim gets $$$ in alimony and child support but is still broke.  

 

Kim can't have valid resentments or grievances because she is an addict that is not taking responsibility for her behavior when she was high.  She can't go forward with anything until she does that.  I know that she said she knows everything from all her days in and out of rehab but she is absolutely not behaving like an addict working on recovery.  And that is the main reason I believe she is still using.

Tabloids? Not convinced but those are my own standards.

 

She can't? They don't exist? They don't matter? I mean there may be reasons why her behavior is not condoned but that doesn't mean she can't even have valid feelings of disregard. I mean a tit for tat approach doesn't really help anyone and I believe that's what kept a lot of the baggage around longer than necessary.  I mean people can choose how much of the whole "alcoholic redemption plan" to incorporate into what they feel is a satisfactory level of atonement that they will accept but I also don't believe that those who need to atone are supposed to be held hostage to some outrageous idea of what someone else feels should be the goal. I get a feeling that Kyle has raised that level out of any legitimate range that Kim could ever reach or should have to reach.

 

I just can't shake the feeling that what it boils down is that Kim isn't jumping through hoops and because of her audacity to not do so on command is what drives a lot of this ridiculousness. All the "heartfelt" this and "genuine concern" are just attempts to give reason for the hoop jumping commands that Kim doesn't seem too willing to comply with. That's the analogy that rings the most true to me.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[WireWrap]

Tabloids? Not convinced but those are my own standards.

 

She can't? They don't exist? They don't matter? I mean there may be reasons why her behavior is not condoned but that doesn't mean she can't even have valid feelings of disregard. I mean a tit for tat approach doesn't really help anyone and I believe that's what kept a lot of the baggage around longer than necessary.  I mean people can choose how much of the whole "alcoholic redemption plan" to incorporate into what they feel is a satisfactory level of atonement that they will accept but I also don't believe that those who need to atone are supposed to be held hostage to some outrageous idea of what someone else feels should be the goal. I get a feeling that Kyle has raised that level out of any legitimate range that Kim could ever reach or should have to reach.

 

I just can't shake the feeling that what it boils down is that Kim isn't jumping through hoops and because of her audacity to not do so on command is what drives a lot of this ridiculousness. All the "heartfelt" this and "genuine concern" are just attempts to give reason for the hoop jumping commands that Kim doesn't seem too willing to comply with. That's the analogy that rings the most true to me.

I am not sure that Kyle has set anything out of Kim's ability other than each time she relapses, Kim needs to start over. By starting over I mean that she has to earn back any trust or forward motion Kyle may have given Kim during her sober/clean periods and each time she does relapse, the time to regain anything is pushed further back, it takes longer. There have been reports of several relapses over the 3 years since she got out of rehab, last season in PR, the season before in Paris and a few tabloid stories of her under the influence of something at parties. We saw the 1 in Paris and Brandi corroborated the 1 in PR, this season and I suspect there have been more. Regardless of how long she stays clean/sober, each time she relapses the clock gets reset to the beginning and all trust is lost.

[CajunGirl]

I've stated in other posts that I think Kim is a nasty piece of work. I stand by that. But I also come from a dysfunctional family with violence and addiction issues that go back generations. My dad was a direct victim of his parents' issues and those demons affected him all his life. He was incapable of maintaining close relationships (except with me and my brother). Many might have considered him "unreliable" in certain areas and he suffered major depressive episodes until the day he died. For many years, he self-medicated with alcohol (it didn't hurt that he worked in an industry that encouraged drinking with clients - in fact, my dad was a lot like Don Draper (for those of you who are Mad Men fans)). After his quadruple bypass surgery, he decided to give up drinking, but by then, he'd left a lot of emotional devastation in his wake.

The point being, although Kim is a vile person with a narsisstic addict-victim mentality, I don't afford her the compassion she probably deserves because she's not MY vile, narsisstic family member. Since I learned at a young age about my Dad's terrible, tragic childhood trauma, I spent my whole life giving him free passes for his bad behavior and was always there for him even when he was hard to like, let alone love. His soul was damaged and I would have given anything to help repair it (which ultimately led me straight into codependent hell, but that's another story). I've criticized Kyle in other posts for not learning to detach from Kim's dysfunction, but when you love someone (as I did my Dad and Kyle obviously does Kim), its hard to give up on him or her even when you're being dragged down with them. And when Kyle said they were always encouraged to sweep their problems under the rug, it really made me wonder what kind of traumas Kim may have experienced as a young actress back "in the day" when things weren't so PC, and with the ultimate stage mother as her only real advocate in Hollywood.

That being said, Kim is a grown woman and every time she lashes out and says horrible, hateful things, shes making a choice to be that way. We all have our issues (granted, some much worse than others) but we can choose to remain locked in our past hurts or move forward and choose a better path. My Dad spent the last months of his life apologizing and asking for forgiveness from those he loved and yet hurt the most. His biggest regrets were over things we had long since forgiven him for, but because he was so full of self-loathing, he never heard (or believed) that we had. Kim still has time to learn to love herself and work on her relationships but not as long as her need for fame is more important. I hope she leaves the show either on her own, or by being fired, so she can do the very hard work it takes for real recovery. Everyone loves a TRUE comeback story.

[msblossom]

If the dog is indeed un-trainable, it ultimately falls on KIM and KIM alone to do something about Kingsley before he harms or kills someone.  

She is an idiot. If she doesn't get that dog to an expert  ASAP, that dog will strike again.  Next time, it could be much worse.  It could even be Kim next time. I hate to say this and i'll probably get slammed for it.; but if she can't get this dog re-homed to a qualified expert,  I'd rather see Kingsley put down before he does serious damage.   Maybe even kill someone.

 

eta :  I know she's had Kingsley to at least 1 expert, but he deemed the dog untrainable.  But  it was most likely KIM that was untrainable and wouldn't follow the proper techniques to rein in Kingsley.   She doesn't seem to have the personality to train a very powerful dog.   That's why I'm saying she has to either get this dog to an even more qualified person (like Cesar) or the dog should be put down.

Agreed; excellent post!

That dog must be miserable living like this. If he is trainable and given to a new home, he would be relieved of so much tension and misery. Kim leaves so much destruction in her wake it's unbelievable. I hope someone can save the poor dog from spending anymore time around Kim and he's able to thrive in the hands of an expert dog behaviorist and trainer rather than get put down. Do you think Cesar would contact Kim on his own?

[Sincerely Yours]

I am not sure that Kyle has set anything out of Kim's ability other than each time she relapses, Kim needs to start over. By starting over I mean that she has to earn back any trust or forward motion Kyle may have given Kim during her sober/clean periods and each time she does relapse, the time to regain anything is pushed further back, it takes longer. There have been reports of several relapses over the 3 years since she got out of rehab, last season in PR, the season before in Paris and a few tabloid stories of her under the influence of something at parties. We saw the 1 in Paris and Brandi corroborated the 1 in PR, this season and I suspect there have been more. Regardless of how long she stays clean/sober, each time she relapses the clock gets reset to the beginning and all trust is lost.

I just think that the public tends to fill in the blanks and I'm not so sure that Kyle hasn't inflicted her own abuse upon Kim over the years and when the cameras aren't rolling. I get a biiiiiggggg feeling that Kyle has had her share of indefensible behavior towards Kim over the years and no I don't think it's acceptable because Kim's an addict. There's something about Kyle that makes me think of some disgruntled step parent from the Disney movies. Cinderella's step mom acting like putting a roof over her head makes her generous. Ms. Hannigan from Annie, because she's opened her home up to orphans they should be "grateful" I mean Kyle is far from that extreme and Kim is no Cinderella or Annie but it's that vibe that I get from these two. Kim gets that public tar and feathering but Kyle? Even though she gets put through the ringer publicly on occasion she still comes away smelling a lot less rotten than Kim does and I just can't help to feel like there's huge discrepancy between what Kim is supposed to answer for and explain and what Kyle has to answer for and explain. Addict or not Kyle's got some pretty nasty tendencies and behaviors of her own that shouldn't be shrugged off just because she happens to NOT be an addict. Ugly is ugly.

 

I think my biggest thing is I don't really believe Kyle is this way as a result of Kim's addicitons. I think Kyle's AND Kim's issues stemmed from the same dysfunction and manifested in there own ways and I don't think it's fair to put all of that on Kim. Kyle's unhappiness isn't a direct result from Kim fucking up Kyle's life. Kyle's issues stem from a fucked up family life growing up and Kim's issues stem from that as well. They both inflict pain upon each other through their acquired dysfunction and I think it's unfair for either of them to resent the other because of it. I think that's the prison that they are both trapped in. They've let their resentments get away from them and they've forgotten that neither one of them created the issues that caused their individual demons but over the years they've participated in providing fuel that allowed those demons to grow. I think they resent THAT part of each other. The parts that allowed the other to keep feeding the demons instead of working together to banish them forever. They do go on about failing each other. They just haven't figured out the formula and as self centered as they both are they never will understand there can actually be a solution.

 

A lot of things don't add up right to me but doesn't get proper attention because everything is all so caught up in the fact that Kims an addict and every disagreement or discussion or confrontation is steered down that path. I'm sooooo curious about the ins and outs of their relationship over the years.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[WireWrap]

I just think that the public tends to fill in the blanks and I'm not so sure that Kyle hasn't inflicted her own abuse upon Kim over the years and when the cameras aren't rolling. I get a biiiiiggggg feeling that Kyle has had her share of indefensible behavior towards Kim over the years and no I don't think it's acceptable because Kim's an addict. There's something about Kyle that makes me think of some disgruntled step parent from the Disney movies. Cinderella's step mom acting like putting a roof over her head makes her generous. Ms. Hannigan from Annie, because she's opened her home up to orphans they should be "grateful" I mean Kyle is far from that extreme and Kim is no Cinderella or Annie but it's that vibe that I get from these two. Kim gets that public tar and feathering but Kyle? Even though she gets put through the ringer publicly on occasion she still comes away smelling a lot less rotten than Kim does and I just can't help to feel like there's huge discrepancy between what Kim is supposed to answer for and explain and what Kyle has to answer for and explain. Addict or not Kyle's got some pretty nasty tendencies and behaviors of her own that shouldn't be shrugged off just because she happens to NOT be an addict. Ugly is ugly.

 

I think my biggest thing is I don't really believe Kyle is this way as a result of Kim's addicitons. I think Kyle's AND Kim's issues stemmed from the same dysfunction and manifested in there own ways and I don't think it's fair to put all of that on Kim. Kyle's unhappiness isn't a direct result from Kim fucking up Kyle's life. Kyle's issues stem from a fucked up family life growing up and Kim's issues stem from that as well. They both inflict pain upon each other through their acquired dysfunction and I think it's unfair for either of them to resent the other because of it. I think that's the prison that they are both trapped in. They've let their resentments get away from them and they've forgotten that neither one of them created the issues that caused their individual demons but over the years they've participated in providing fuel that allowed those demons to grow. I think they resent THAT part of each other. The parts that allowed the other to keep feeding the demons instead of working together to banish them forever. They do go on about failing each other. They just haven't figured out the formula and as self centered as they both are they never will understand there can actually be a solution.

 

A lot of things don't add up right to me but doesn't get proper attention because everything is all so caught up in the fact that Kims an addict and every disagreement or discussion or confrontation is steered down that path. I'm sooooo curious about the ins and outs of their relationship over the years.

I have no doubts that even if Kim was never an addict that these 2 would still have issues. They have both spoken about physical fights they had when Kyle was a preteen and Kim was an older teenager. I suspect that Kim was correct that Kyle had it easier in the home, chore wise, most babies of the family do. LOL Yes, I agree that they had issues prior to Kim's addictions but IMO, those addictions greatly magnified those issues into what we see today. I don't think we can get an honest appraisal of who Kyle as long as Kim is on the show, I do think we have seen the real Kim though. Clean/sober or high/drunk, she, Kim, is not a nice person and I give Kyle more slack than Kim because of it.

[MatildaMoody]

 

Kim gets that public tar and feathering but Kyle? Even though she gets put through the ringer publicly on occasion she still comes away smelling a lot less rotten than Kim does and I just can't help to feel like there's huge discrepancy between what Kim is supposed to answer for and explain and what Kyle has to answer for and explain.

 

This part stood out to me because it is the only thing in your post that I actually disagree with. Kyle has been lambasted every season that she has been on, this is the first time I am seeing such public outcry against Kim. I think Kyle has had to explain herself so much more over the seasons than Kim did and it was because Kim was seen as a frail recovering and relapsing addict and it got her a great deal of sympathy. Kim has always had supporters who thought that Kyle was bullying her, or that Kyle was a terrible sister to drag her on this show when she has obvious anxiety issues, or that Kyle was constantly making a big deal of Kim's missed appearances and tardiness. 

 

I honestly think this is the first season that Kyle has ever been cut even the slightest amount of slack regarding her behavior/relationship with Kim - all of her other foibles and mean behaviors are still being called out, but in regards to Kim, people are getting a glimpse of what it must have been like to deal with her for decades. Even during the original game night - Kim led that charge but Kyle got the blow back from it. But now that the producers have stopped trying to protect Kim viewers are seeing a little more balance in that relationship when it comes to how the two of them interact. 

 

I have never been a Kyle fan and this season is no exception. But, being an older sister who feels responsible for my younger siblings, I can't imagine what it would be like for her to feel she has to protect and take care of someone who by all rights should have been looking out for her all of these years. The two of them are shitty people. But, Kyle got a really raw deal in the sister department and it pains me to say that, but it's true. 

[QuinnM]

 

I don't think we can get an honest appraisal of who Kyle as long as Kim is on the show, I do think we have seen the real Kim though. Clean/sober or high/drunk, she, Kim, is not a nice person and I give Kyle more slack than Kim because of it.

 

I will bet that for every time one of Kim's kids said 'Kyle is a better mother to me than you are' Kim feels the need to say 'Kathy is a better sister to me than you are'.  When you're an addict your kids find another support system.  They may live in the house with you but they depend on someone else for security and comfort.  And that doesn't go away when you get sober.  They remember.  Kim has said that her kids will leave her if she falls off the wagon so she knows they remember.

[Higgins]

I use to think this about Kim. That there must be something good at the core because people hadn't left her completely. After this season I just cannot say that anymore. I have seen too much. The way she was so calmly saying to Lisar "let's talk about what you don't want to talk about". The way she seemed to savor the idea that she could hurt her. The way she so easily called Eileen a "beast". This wasn't the behavior of someone who just snapped in anger and said things that they would regret later. She was so calm when she started with all of that, very practiced about it. And then there were the things she said to Kyle. The hate and anger were so evident. Her objective seemed to be to hurt Kyle deeply. 

 

Somone on here reminded me of something I hadn't thought about in a while. It was the Hawaii episode at dinner, after Kim and her jackass boyfriend had kept everyone waiting in one way or another for most of the trip. She seemed to feel she was completely innocent. Why would anyone care that she had acted in such a manner. When Kyle tried to explain it to her, she said to Kyle "well you talk on you cell phone when you drive". Huh? Everyone was kind of shocked. It was like her first instinct was to find and say something about someone else to deflect her own issues. Apparently the most horrific thing she could reach for in that moment about Kyle was cell phone conversations while driving. She did the same thing in PS when Kyle was talking about Brandi asking questions about her. She threw out "worry about your own stuff" or "even your close friends think you are a liar". She is just not a good person, sober or not. 

 

I've shared before than when my father finally got sober after 30 years, there was much excitment among us all that we would see this different person.  Someone who cared about us and our needs, who wanted to be present in our lives after years of really only wanting to around for the booze. We never walked away. Not any of his kids, or his 3 ex-wives. Therapists had told us to not expect something so drastic. We had to be realistic about our expectations. You still set them very high after years of agony. A couple of years later my brother famously said to us all "huh, all those years blaming the booze. Turns out that dad is just an asshole". It  might not be that there is really any good left in Kim. It might just be that the people around her are better than she is. 

She was all cocked up in Hawaii....no doubt about it. She is a flake but I think there is something worthwhile in all of these ladies and something pathological about most of them. Just like all of us.

[zoeysmom]

Tabloids? Not convinced but those are my own standards.

 

She can't? They don't exist? They don't matter? I mean there may be reasons why her behavior is not condoned but that doesn't mean she can't even have valid feelings of disregard. I mean a tit for tat approach doesn't really help anyone and I believe that's what kept a lot of the baggage around longer than necessary.  I mean people can choose how much of the whole "alcoholic redemption plan" to incorporate into what they feel is a satisfactory level of atonement that they will accept but I also don't believe that those who need to atone are supposed to be held hostage to some outrageous idea of what someone else feels should be the goal. I get a feeling that Kyle has raised that level out of any legitimate range that Kim could ever reach or should have to reach.

 

I just can't shake the feeling that what it boils down is that Kim isn't jumping through hoops and because of her audacity to not do so on command is what drives a lot of this ridiculousness. All the "heartfelt" this and "genuine concern" are just attempts to give reason for the hoop jumping commands that Kim doesn't seem too willing to comply with. That's the analogy that rings the most true to me.

Is it really asking too much of someone not to be obnoxious and verbally combative at a social occasion?  And if the reason was she was under the influence it is hardly jumping through hoops asking someone apologize or at least acknowledge their behavior was unseemly and made others uncomfortable.  If Kim doesn't like the request maybe she should stop acting so snotty.

 

One thing that seemed very therapy driven to me was when Kim, in LaQuinta, started to go off on Lisar and Kyle directed the conversation back to the reason for Lisa's behavior, which was Kim's behavior on Poker Night.  Kyle employed the same tactic when Kim threw out the house-"let's talk about the house," this to me seemed like two veterans of therapy.  Kyle even went so far as to make the wash your hands motions and say after rehab it was a clean slate.   I thought Kyle should have backed off a bit on the Brandi and intervention but otherwise Kim has those types of conversations to look forward to in therapy.  The verbal jab, the worry about your own shit, the you don't want to talk about what is going on at your house crap is not allowed. 

 

I have always thought short of an egregious insult-on the level of snorting crystal meth in the bathroom all night assault, Kim should really make a concerted effort for three months to not talk about how hurt she is or was about anything or talk about her feelings.  I think she would get a whole lot healthier a whole lot faster.  

Edited March 27, 2015 by zoeysmom

[QuinnM]

You know I just saw the Palm Springs thing yesterday.  They were talking about the house and Kyle said something like I know this is your first time seeing it.  Kim said something snotty about that they bought it with the money they made on her house.  Kyle actually very calmly said, Kim you know that's not true.  And it escalated.  But Kim started with 'Your close friends know you're lying too'.  That was when Kyle went tit for tat with the Brandi remark.  So Kim brought up the house, Kim escalated the situation and Kim brought in friends betraying people.  

 

Kim needs to STFU and go to bed.

[MollyBrown]

I really feel for Kim's kids. I wonder if they feel they need to stay away from Kyle because their mother might be angered. Family politics is soul crushing.

[LotusFlower]

She was all cocked up in Hawaii....no doubt about it. She is a flake but I think there is something worthwhile in all of these ladies and something pathological about most of them. Just like all of us.

What have you seen in Kim that is worthwhile? I ask that in a sincere way, not with snark. Because I've watched from the beginning, and I've never seen her do a kind thing for anyone. Ever. And I can't think of a single admirable trait. Which stands out, because even with other HW's who I hate, like Nene or Aviva, I can say at least one nice thing about them. (And I can't believe I just wrote that about Aviva).

You know I just saw the Palm Springs thing yesterday. They were talking about the house and Kyle said something like I know this is your first time seeing it. Kim said something snotty about that they bought it with the money they made on her house. Kyle actually very calmly said, Kim you know that's not true. And it escalated. But Kim started with 'Your close friends know you're lying too'. That was when Kyle went tit for tat with the Brandi remark.

That stood out to me, too. And, as I remember it - Kim said "ALL your close friends think such-and-such". It was such a low blow. A kind of "You're horrible, and everyone thinks so." Everyone! So characteristic of her mean-girl tactics.

Edited March 28, 2015 by LotusFlower

[GreatKazu]

I really feel for Kim's kids. I wonder if they feel they need to stay away from Kyle because their mother might be angered. Family politics is soul crushing.

You can bet Kim has made them feel like shit for calling Kyle or running to Kyle whenever mom has had gone all Hulk. If they dared to tell their mother how they feel, they were likely ignored or Kim rattled off how she HERSELF feels, because frankly, addicts don't care about anyone else's feelings. Addicts are the most self-centered people, even if they have children, they are sometimes put on the back burner.  There is a reason why Kim's kids put their foot down about Ken 2.0  Imagine kids having to set boundaries with their own parent? And what did Kim do? She put that guy before her children.

[LotusFlower]

I so agree!  I can't remember ever seeing Kyle be worthwhile, she's just so odious and manipulative and completely self centered.

No, I was talking about Kim. I've seen Kyle do a number of kind-hearted things on the show over the years. She was supportive and kind to Taylor when Taylor was dealing with whatever it was (I think Taylor participated in the fraud or grifting, but Kyle didn't, and helped her, as well as helping with Kennedy after Russel's death). I also remember her taking off her necklace and giving it to Carlton after Carlton complimented her on it, which is a nice gesture in and of itself, but especially nice when it's towards someone who disliked her so much.

[Satchels of gold]

I think Kyle would be a great friend. I think she is a wonderful mother and wife. I find her to be very kind hearted.

[BlackMamba]

I think Kyle would be a great friend. I think she is a wonderful mother and wife. I find her to be very kind hearted.

Another reason for Kim to vomit in her shoe. 'Damn her for thinking she better than me.'

[st.louielouie]

I think Kyle is a very loving wife and mother.  I like how she can laugh at herself.  Out of all the ladies, I would probably be able to hang with Kyle or Eileen.  The rest - no way as they are way too needy.

[QuinnM]

Kyle with Yolanda on the yacht when Yo was dealing with her daughters DUI showed someone with compassion. I just think we don't get to see it often since it's all about Kin.

[GreatKazu]

Is that an explosion? LOL  *inside joke to another member*

 

Yes, agree to all of the above. Kyle was and still is, a friend to Taylor. When it could have been acceptable for her to throw shade Taylor's way and just kick her to the curb, and no one would have cared. She continued to be a friend when many would have said to Taylor, "Later!"  Kyle and LisaV (along with Ken) attended Taylor's wedding. They could have each just sent a gift, but there they were. 

[Higgins]

She was all cocked up in Hawaii....no doubt about it. She is a flake but I think there is something worthwhile in all of these ladies and something pathological about most of them. Just like all of us.

LOL coked up! Although maybe she was cocked up too but the thought of that with uglier Ken is too traumatic to imagine.

Is it really asking too much of someone not to be obnoxious and verbally combative at a social occasion?  And if the reason was she was under the influence it is hardly jumping through hoops asking someone apologize or at least acknowledge their behavior was unseemly and made others uncomfortable.  If Kim doesn't like the request maybe she should stop acting so snotty.

 

One thing that seemed very therapy driven to me was when Kim, in LaQuinta, started to go off on Lisar and Kyle directed the conversation back to the reason for Lisa's behavior, which was Kim's behavior on Poker Night.  Kyle employed the same tactic when Kim threw out the house-"let's talk about the house," this to me seemed like two veterans of therapy.  Kyle even went so far as to make the wash your hands motions and say after rehab it was a clean slate.   I thought Kyle should have backed off a bit on the Brandi and intervention but otherwise Kim has those types of conversations to look forward to in therapy.  The verbal jab, the worry about your own shit, the you don't want to talk about what is going on at your house crap is not allowed. 

 

I have always thought short of an egregious insult-on the level of snorting crystal meth in the bathroom all night assault, Kim should really make a concerted effort for three months to not talk about how hurt she is or was about anything or talk about her feelings.  I think she would get a whole lot healthier a whole lot faster.  

Crystal meth you say? What's that? I've never even heard of it!

 

 

Kyle is a loving wife and mother.

Edited March 28, 2015 by Higgins

[Higgins]

Is that an explosion? LOL  *inside joke to another member*

 

Yes, agree to all of the above. Kyle was and still is, a friend to Taylor. When it could have been acceptable for her to throw shade Taylor's way and just kick her to the curb, and no one would have cared. She continued to be a friend when many would have said to Taylor, "Later!"  Kyle and LisaV (along with Ken) attended Taylor's wedding. They could have each just sent a gift, but there they were. 

Kyle wanted to save her. She has that complex.

[zoeysmom]

LOL coked up! Although maybe she was cocked up too but the thought of that with uglier Ken is too traumatic to imagine.

Crystal meth you say? What's that? I've never even heard of it!

 

 

Kyle is a loving wife and mother.

It is the synthetic version of being "cocked up". :)

 

I think Kyle has been a good friend to a lot of people over the years.  And now for my nice comment about Kim, in spite of her years of alcoholic haze, I do think she really loves her children.  I thought it touching when she was talking about Kimberly as she thinks of her children as gifts rather than possessions.  It was just as meaningful without LvP and Ken there.

 

Here is what I don't get about Kim, who because she was a child star never learned to put her own make up on, she is sitting there being attended to by Kyle's stylist and bitching about Kyle and speaking of  such an injustice to Brandi. 

[GreatKazu]

It is the synthetic version of being "cocked up". :)

 

I think Kyle has been a good friend to a lot of people over the years.  And now for my nice comment about Kim, in spite of her years of alcoholic haze, I do think she really loves her children.  I thought it touching when she was talking about Kimberly as she thinks of her children as gifts rather than possessions.  It was just as meaningful without LvP and Ken there.

 

Here is what I don't get about Kim, who because she was a child star never learned to put her own make up on, she is sitting there being attended to by Kyle's stylist and bitching about Kyle and speaking of  such an injustice to Brandi. 

 

 

Because Kim feels that is owed to her!! That is the addict complex - self-center syndrome. Kyle should have her stylist tending to Kim. Afterall, Kim is the oldest and should be tended to hand and foot. She earned it!! [sarcasm]

Edited March 28, 2015 by GreatKazu

[LotusFlower]

Kyle wanted to save her. She has that complex.

She really doesn't. Where have you seen this? Because I've seen the opposite. It wasn't surprising to me at all when Yolanda told Kyle her job was to fix things with Kim, to be the strong one, and Kyle said she didn't want the job.. That's the opposite of wanting to save people.

[BlackMamba]

Is that an explosion? LOL *inside joke to another member*

Yes, agree to all of the above. Kyle was and still is, a friend to Taylor. When it could have been acceptable for her to throw shade Taylor's way and just kick her to the curb, and no one would have cared. She continued to be a friend when many would have said to Taylor, "Later!" Kyle and LisaV (along with Ken) attended Taylor's wedding. They could have each just sent a gift, but there they were.

And don't forget Adrienne. The three people Brandi screwed over. Edited March 28, 2015 by BlackMamba

[Otherkate]

Didn't Brandi also say that Kyle has done a few nice things for her that she appreciated? Being the first to reach out after tampon string gate? She also said something about being able to drop her boys off at Kyle's a few times when she needed to? Did I imagine that? I'm honestly not sure. 

[zoeysmom]

So Brandi wrote a blog and in it said how sober Kim was and off social media and driving her family members back and forth to hospital and doctor appointment.

 

Brandi is either lying or Kim punked Brandi:  Here are pictures of Kim and Brooke and her mother in law enjoying a vacation in Cabo three days ago.  https://instagram.com/p/0oncAtpnwm/

 

I know Kim has been busting her butt (except when she is not) like this month and last month on vacations, not staying with Monty.

[GreatKazu]

Oh, so Kim is back in Cabo? But, but...she is caring for sick and dying Monty!!!

[zoeysmom]

Oh, so Kim is back in Cabo? But, but...she is caring for sick and dying Monty!!!

And the "other" family member who is under psychiatric care.

First look is at 10:33 tonight

[GreatKazu]

And the "other" family member who is under psychiatric care.

First look is at 10:33 tonight

Thanks for the heads-up.

 

I know, right?

 

"Kim is dealing with Monty and she has a child in the mental ward!!" WHAAAAAAAA! Leave Kimmy alone!!

 

Kim is a self-centered asshole. She got her Bravo paycheck and ran. But first, she got what she could of Monty's pain pills and put them in a prescription bottle with her name on it so she could take it across the border. I wouldn't even be surprised if Kim is buying questionable drugs over there. I had a boss who was an alcoholic. She would go across the border to buy her heart medications, and a few other things that were cheaper there to help her get by such as Xanax and some other meds.

[BlackMamba]

Thanks for the heads-up.

I know, right?

"Kim is dealing with Monty and she has a child in the mental ward!!" WHAAAAAAAA! Leave Kimmy alone!!

Kim is a self-centered asshole. She got her Bravo paycheck and ran. But first, she got what she could of Monty's pain pills and put them in a prescription bottle with her name on it so she could take it across the border. I wouldn't even be surprised if Kim is buying questionable drugs over there. I had a boss who was an alcoholic. She would go across the border to buy her heart medications, and a few other things that were cheaper there to help her get by such as Xanax and some other meds.

I bet also good money Kim will be getting "turnt up" as the kids would say. I expect her to be so drunk or hiding her drunkenness from Brooke.

[GreatKazu]

This makes how many times Brandi has lied? 2987484954876? She thought she could paint Kim as this poor, helpless person who is so stressed from caring about those around her. Yeah, so stressed, she decided to jet out to Cabo again.

[zoeysmom]

This makes how many times Brandi has lied? 2987484954876? She thought she could paint Kim as this poor, helpless person who is so stressed from caring about those around her. Yeah, so stressed, she decided to jet out to Cabo again.

It is interesting Kim is in Cabo with Brooke's MIL, who is a bestie of Kyle's and Kyle and Alexia were in NYC with Brooke's SIL.  Kim needs to make this work.

[blueeyed]

What have you seen in Kyle that is worthwhile? I ask that in a sincere way, not with snark. Because I've watched from the beginning, and I've never seen her do a kind thing for anyone. Ever. And I can't think of a single admirable trait. Which stands out, because even with other HW's who I hate, like Nene or Aviva, I can say at least one nice thing about them. (And I can't believe I just wrote that about Aviva).

That stood out to me, too. And, as I remember it - Kim said "ALL your close friends think such-and-such". It was such a low blow. A kind of "You're horrible, and everyone thinks so." Everyone! So characteristic of her mean-girl tactics.

Kyle, Mauricio and at least one of their children went to Brandi's after she lost her dog to put up fliers; Brand also said in her blog Kyle helped her look for her dog and Kyle also gave her that card in the back of the limo (with Lisa) after she had the tampon incident. It appears Kyle does do nice things.

Edited March 28, 2015 by blueeyed

[LotusFlower]

Woops - sorry guys. When I asked a poster (was it Higgins?) what worthwhile traits she saw in Kyle, saying I haven't seen any in all five seasons, I meant KIM. (Those K names!!). I corrected it in my next post, and even listed some examples of Kyle's kindness, but I forgot to go back and edit my post. So carry on with all the positive stories about Kyle if you choose, but if it was in response to my first question - my bad! Sorry again.

[Giselle]

My guess is that one reason Kim still has Kingsley around is to intimidate Monty into sharing his meds. Bet she comes in to a room with him on a leash saying " Kingsley thinks mommy should have another one of your pills. Kingsley also thinks mommy should have a pain patch for later."