Loathesome!: Characters We Hate

[proserpina65]

On 3/16/2025 at 4:37 PM, Danny Franks said:

My soapbox opinion about E.R. - They should have built the show around Susan, rather than around Mark and Doug.

She was a very sympathetic, engaging character, and Sherry Stringfield played her with so much charisma and charm in those first two and a half seasons. Following her career progress, and the self doubts she clearly had, while she was trying to figure out how to be a mother to Suzy, would have been great television.

I see your point but admit that I wouldn't have watched that show.  I was never that invested in Susan at all and wouldn't have been interested in watching her try to balance motherhood and work as the focus of the show.  Just my opinion, obviously, but I liked that there was more of a interconnected approach, especially after the first season.

[Fool to cry]

My ER take is after 3 decades I'm still wondering what happened to Bob!

[Katy M]

I hate Amy on The Big Bang Theory.  And she changed a lot over the course of the show and I hate her in all her iterations.  And I don't really know why.  I know why I don't like her at the beginning. She's kind of just a femaie  Sheldon and we already have Sheldon. And then she just gets weird with Penny and you can see she's uncomfortable around her a lot and I don't even understand why she hung out with her.  And, then even though she's only been more normal for a couple of years, she gets mad at Sheldon still being Sheldon.

[scarynikki12]

Amy was so frustrating. I did think she was funny at first but they quickly turned her into a whiny and needy character who was determined to force Sheldon to be something he wasn't and to want something he didn't. And then she succeeded. I caught their scene in the final episode of Young Sheldon and it reiterated all the problems with her character and their relationship all over again. Like on Big Bang  she was begging Sheldon to do something he had no interest in (attending his son's hockey game) and all but dragged him there. She knew this man had no interest in sports or anything that mattered to other people and was selfish as hell even when dealing with things he cared about yet she believed he'd magically change. She always wanted him to be something he wasn't and then started whining and begging when he didn't change. She should have kept Sheldon for intellectual conversation and found someone else to satisfy her desire for romance, marriage, and children. 

[Katy M]

3 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

I did think she was funny at first but they quickly turned her into a whiny and needy character who was determined to force Sheldon to be something he wasn't and to want something he didn't

Yes, I think that's it exactly.  At the beginning, he asked her if she wanted to go get coffee and she said he was suffocating her.  And then she went from that to being sex-crazed and needing human emotion. There's obviously nothing wrong with needing human emotion, of course.  Most people do. But, that's really waht Sheldon signed up for with her and not what she wanted, and it's like she wore him down.  In an even more ridiculous fashion than Leonard did with Penny.

[andidante]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

I hate Amy on The Big Bang Theory.  And she changed a lot over the course of the show and I hate her in all her iterations.  And I don't really know why.  I know why I don't like her at the beginning. She's kind of just a femaie  Sheldon and we already have Sheldon. And then she just gets weird with Penny and you can see she's uncomfortable around her a lot and I don't even understand why she hung out with her.  And, then even though she's only been more normal for a couple of years, she gets mad at Sheldon still being Sheldon.

She was so creepy with Penny at times. It made me wonder why Penny stayed friends with her! 

[juno]

12 minutes ago, andidante said:

She was so creepy with Penny at times. It made me wonder why Penny stayed friends with her! 

So unnecessarily mean to the group at first and as a result was unwatchable. Then the obsession with Penny and then the whiny, never satisfied girlfriend to Sheldon. Not one version was watchable, interesting or funny.

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, juno said:

So unnecessarily mean to the group at first and as a result was unwatchable. Then the obsession with Penny and then the whiny, never satisfied girlfriend to Sheldon. Not one version was watchable, interesting or funny.

I agree which is too bad. I wanted to like Amy because she and Sheldon were different from typical couples. They were a couple liked hanging out together but had zero interest a physical relationship of any kind. It was great to see. There's another show I watch call Astrid a French tv show, the main character Astrid has Aspergers and works with the police. In season three she realizes she likes a guy her friend Raphelle tells her she'll have to kiss and stuff like a normal couple if they date which Astrid is uncomfortable with. She ends up talking with the guy she likes that she wants a relationship with him but can't do kissing or anything else. He's totally fine with. Which is great. Raphelle's wrong (and so are the characters on Big Bang Theory who keeped teasing Sheldon and Amy for not having a phyiscal relationship) relationships can be whatever works for the couple. It's really great to see Astrid navigating a relationship. Later she does move up to kiss him twice but on her terms. And he's totally find with it. He likes and understands Astrid.

I wanted Sheldon and Amy to be another couple that was different from the typical relationship. But Amy was just so terrible at the beginning and continued as she changed. 

[Spartan Girl]

Sheldon had his faults, but the whole plot of Amy being upset because Sheldon didn’t want to rush into a physical relationship has aged terribly, given what we know understand about asexuality. We aren’t meant to like it when guys pressure girls for sex, so why should the reverse situation be acceptable?

Moreover, I also don’t like the “I can change him” character trope. People aren’t fix-it projects. Again, if a guy tried to fix a girl to his liking — as demonstrated with Charles and Diana on The Crown — we would all rightfully call him a controlling jerk. But a woman tries to do it to a guy, we’re somehow supposed to sympathize with her.

This was called out on an episode of According to Jim of all shows: Cheryl gets Jim a painting kit for his birthday knowing full damn well he isn’t into art; she just wants to “inspire” him to get into art. Jim sees through the tactic, and tells Cheryl flat-out that he doesn’t appreciate it because it makes him feel that she’s giving a gift to the husband she wishes she had instead of the one she’s actually got. Cheryl realizes her folly and later apologizes with a gift that he’d actually like.

[Dimity]

I liked original Amy, her being a female version of Sheldon worked for me.  I really hated the whole storyline where she was hot for Penny.  They already had their "is he really gay?" storyline with Raj, they didn't need to have a do over with creepy Amy. 

Once they moved her character past this though I really enjoyed Amy.  I liked that she stood up for herself with Sheldon in terms of her scientific career.  She was impressed with him as a scientist but she didn't let that dominate her life.

I didn't see her as pushing Sheldon to do something he didn't want because I never felt the writers ever had a clear idea of what they wanted from Sheldon in terms of his sexuality.  He grew to love Amy and that was good enough for me.

What I liked about the Sheldon/Amy relationship was that, oddly enough. it was the only one of the 3 where the woman wasn't depicted as being the 'bully'.  That's a rant for another day...

[Spartan Girl]

24 minutes ago, Dimity said:

I didn't see her as pushing Sheldon to do something he didn't want because I never felt the writers ever had a clear idea of what they wanted from Sheldon in terms of his sexuality.  He grew to love Amy and that was good enough for me.

Exactly. While I didn’t like how the show acted like Sheldon was a weirdo for being uncomfortable with sex, when the time came, it was because he was ready. And they were both fine with the birthday arrangement.

[GHScorpiosRule]

BENT. From 1985-86 mini-series North and South! No further ‘plantation needed!

[JustHereForFood]

4 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Sheldon had his faults, but the whole plot of Amy being upset because Sheldon didn’t want to rush into a physical relationship has aged terribly, given what we know understand about asexuality. We aren’t meant to like it when guys pressure girls for sex, so why should the reverse situation be acceptable?

The thing is, I don't think they would do it otherwise now. Shows like this want to have it both ways. It's like a new version of queerbaiting, they just moved to other groups of people. They want those who are starved for representation of asexual, and aromantic characters to find the characters appealing and relatable, but then change it to late-bloomer romance (which isn't really well represented either, IMO). If criticized, they can always say that sexuality evolves during one's lifetime, so they are actually representing some people, which doesn't change the fact that they used another group to gain viewers who expected something different. 

The same can probably be said about autistic representation. They implied that Sheldon is on the spectrum, but as far as I remember didn't confirm it (I didn't watch Young Sheldon, maybe they did it there?) and this could be said about other uses of the "socially awkward genius" trope, like Bones or Sherlock. Which gives them the option to deflect criticism if people don't like the way the characters are portrayed - well, we never said they are supposed to represent any group, so all is good.

[Dimity]

4 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

Which gives them the option to deflect criticism if people don't like the way the characters are portrayed - well, we never said they are supposed to represent any group, so all is good.

This is pretty much what the creators of BBT said about Sheldon.  They didn't want to label him because then they'd be getting flack from people saying he wasn't a good representative of their group.

[Spartan Girl]

Feeling sad about Michelle Trachtenberg, I actually rewatched Dawn’s first (full) episode on Buffy, and while I stand by what I said that deserved better writing than Whedon and the writers being too lazy to do the necessary edits to reflect Michelle’s older age…yeah, she really was really whiny and annoying in that episode. Don’t even get me started on her simpering over Xander.

“Xander treats everyone like an equal. He doesn't look down on people.”

[Wiendish Fitch]

While I was deeply saddened by Michelle Trachtenberg's passing, it's hard for me to apologize for still disliking Dawn all these years later. I think Dawn is a textbook example of writing oneself into a corner, and why it's a good idea to think long and hard about a character's purpose and endgame (which the Buffy writers clearly did not).

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

While I was deeply saddened by Michelle Trachtenberg's passing, it's hard for me to apologize for still disliking Dawn all these years later. I think Dawn is a textbook example of writing oneself into a corner, and why it's a good idea to think long and hard about a character's purpose and endgame (which the Buffy writers clearly did not).

Yeah, the writers really dropped the ball right from the moment when Dawn became older than they originally intended, and it all went downhill from there. She did have some growth, but unfortunately her full potential to be great was usurped by The Potentials storyline. (Speaking of which, I hated all of them, not just Kennedy.)

[scarynikki12]

Another reason I don't like Amy is she talked shit about Weird Al. For someone who prides herself on her intellect you'd think she'd appreciate someone as clever with language as Weird Al. 

I wish that fight she had with Sheldon where they took turns putting down the other's area of science had led to her leaving forever. That was a funny episode and would have been a suitable goodbye for the character. Then we would have been spared years of her begging Sheldon to have sex with her and the subsequent whining when he said he didn't want to.

[proserpina65]

On 3/22/2025 at 8:24 PM, scarynikki12 said:

Amy was so frustrating. I did think she was funny at first but they quickly turned her into a whiny and needy character who was determined to force Sheldon to be something he wasn't and to want something he didn't. And then she succeeded. I caught their scene in the final episode of Young Sheldon and it reiterated all the problems with her character and their relationship all over again. Like on Big Bang  she was begging Sheldon to do something he had no interest in (attending his son's hockey game) and all but dragged him there. She knew this man had no interest in sports or anything that mattered to other people and was selfish as hell even when dealing with things he cared about yet she believed he'd magically change. She always wanted him to be something he wasn't and then started whining and begging when he didn't change. She should have kept Sheldon for intellectual conversation and found someone else to satisfy her desire for romance, marriage, and children. 

While I do mostly agree with you, I actually liked that she insisted on Sheldon attending his own child's sporting event even though Sheldon doesn't like sports.  It's what a good parent does for their kid.

But I'm with you on wishing they'd kept Amy more like she was in the beginning.  I also wished they hadn't given Sheldon a romantic interest at all.  It didn't really fit with his character.

On 3/22/2025 at 8:24 PM, scarynikki12 said:

She should have kept Sheldon for intellectual conversation and found someone else to satisfy her desire for romance, marriage, and children. 

Exactly.

23 hours ago, Dimity said:

I liked that she stood up for herself with Sheldon in terms of her scientific career.  She was impressed with him as a scientist but she didn't let that dominate her life.

I liked that aspect of her character but they should've kept it at that rather than her becoming so obsessed with them having a romantic relationship.

But still, better than Priya, whom I hated.

 

[Dimity]

34 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

But still, better than Priya, whom I hated.

I didn't hate Priya but was glad when her character had run its course.  The love interest I really hated was Emily.  The creepy dermatologist who was around for a season or two.  At first she seemed normal enough but of course the writers couldn't just have Raj involved with someone without baggage.   I hated any time they had her giving off her serial killer vibes.

[scarynikki12]

3 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

It's what a good parent does for their kid

Total agreement and if Amy were just reminding Sheldon it was time to leave for the game I'd have no issue. She had to browbeat him into going and it wasn't the first time they'd had that type of conversation. That's how we learned Sheldon doesn't change. He changed enough to be willing to have sex with Amy, marry her, and have children but that's it. Years into the future and Amy is still begging Sheldon to care about things that matter to others with a bonus of forcing him to show support for their kids activities. Whoever wrote that scene fell back into the bad habits from Big Bang when it was an opportunity to show some real growth. 

[tearknee]

Hoagie. Launders money for criminals. Let's a five-year-old take the controls of his plane instead of lecturing her.

 

[kathyk2]

22 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Yeah, the writers really dropped the ball right from the moment when Dawn became older than they originally intended, and it all went downhill from there. She did have some growth, but unfortunately her full potential to be great was usurped by The Potentials storyline. (Speaking of which, I hated all of them, not just Kennedy.)

I stopped watching Buffy when they claimed Dawn was Buffy's younger sister. Were we supposed to forget that she was an only when the series started? I hate retconning.

[Raja]

1 minute ago, kathyk2 said:

I stopped watching Buffy when they claimed Dawn was Buffy's younger sister. Were we supposed to forget that she was an only when the series started? I hate retconning.

Spoiler alert there was a Hellmouth explanation for Dawn coming not the reverse Chuck Cunnigham situation that caused you to stop watching.

[tearknee]

Yeah, I love Trachtenberg when she's Elsie or Nona or Harriet, but she deserved better than Sunset on Buffy.

[kathyk2]

On 3/23/2025 at 1:07 PM, JustHereForFood said:

The thing is, I don't think they would do it otherwise now. Shows like this want to have it both ways. It's like a new version of queerbaiting, they just moved to other groups of people. They want those who are starved for representation of asexual, and aromantic characters to find the characters appealing and relatable, but then change it to late-bloomer romance (which isn't really well represented either, IMO). If criticized, they can always say that sexuality evolves during one's lifetime, so they are actually representing some people, which doesn't change the fact that they used another group to gain viewers who expected something different. 

The same can probably be said about autistic representation. They implied that Sheldon is on the spectrum, but as far as I remember didn't confirm it (I didn't watch Young Sheldon, maybe they did it there?) and this could be said about other uses of the "socially awkward genius" trope, like Bones or Sherlock. Which gives them the option to deflect criticism if people don't like the way the characters are portrayed - well, we never said they are supposed to represent any group, so all is good.

The writers would rather have Sheldon labeled a brat than autistic. 

[Quof]

People can be assholes, or just weird, without it being a medical condition. 

[kathyk2]

1 minute ago, Quof said:

People can be assholes, or just weird, without it being a medical condition. 

That's true but in Sheldon's case he was bothered by things that other people didn't notice like the humming of the refrigerator.

[tearknee]

Carol Seaver

 

[Dimity]

4 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

Years into the future and Amy is still begging Sheldon to care about things that matter to others with a bonus of forcing him to show support for their kids activities.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.  I saw the scenes with Sheldon and Amy differently.   They were an old married couple comfortable with each other and what you saw as begging I saw as managing a difficult person.

[Is Everyone Gone]

I actually liked how in ER all the characters were kind of difficult. It kind of tracks with a super high-stress environment. But I liked most everyone but Luka and Abby. I found them so tiresome.

My favorite relationship was Peter and Carter. Will always love them.

 

[proserpina65]

23 hours ago, Dimity said:

I didn't hate Priya but was glad when her character had run its course.  The love interest I really hated was Emily.  The creepy dermatologist who was around for a season or two.  At first she seemed normal enough but of course the writers couldn't just have Raj involved with someone without baggage.   I hated any time they had her giving off her serial killer vibes.

I hated her too.  She was so creepy by the end.  The only one of Raj's love interests I liked was Claire the comic book artist.

[juno]

They really crushed Raj at the end of Big Bang. Not only did he not have a regular relationship, but it seemed as a result he became a co-star instead of one of the main actors on the show. It seemed that the cost was seeing more painful storylines from Amy and Bernadette.

[Spartan Girl]

Liz on Gilmore Girls, I have just realized thanks to the video below, was a terrible mother and a selfish impulsive person that made poor Luke clean up after her messes, yet (like too many characters on that show) was treated as livable and quirky without being called on her crap.

 

Edited 10 hours ago by Spartan Girl