Bethenny & Jason: The Divorce Showdown

[zoeysmom]

5 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

But when did Jason call Beth Beth Bernadette in these emails?  Again, I think people are confusing the custody hearing with the present accusations?

Again, when did Jason call Beth Berndette?  Was it in the emails?  Or was it something Beth declared in the custody trial?

Bethenny stated it at the custody trial. All can find in regards to the case at hand is Jason saying he will not allow Bethenny to do what her mother did to his father.  So I presume he does not want to be removed for the child's life.   BTW I think the women were a little bewildered when Carole made the Bernadette mention.  It takes a lot of explaining why it is an insult to be called by your mother's name.

[Celia Rubenstein]

6 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

 For example if the e-mails are in response to public statements she made about Jason or alluded to and there is an agreement and order that area is off limits then her words and behavior are entirely relevant and can be used as a defense. 

You seem to be suggesting that something Bethenny said might be offered as justification for Jason threatening Bethenny.  But under the law, nothing justifies making threats.  The law is quite clear on this point.

 

8 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Well if I am a juror, I am sure as hell going to wonder why Bethenny would be offended by being called by her mother's name.  Which apparently may not even be the case.  For it to come into evidence the attorney has to lay the foundation why it would be offensive.  I would go back to the elements of the crime the prosecutor has to prove but it proved to be a huge clusterchuck when I cited the jury instructions. 

I am well aware of the elements of the crime.  No need to drag out the google, lol

Certainly Bethenny would be expected to explain why she found being called Bernadette offensive so it would make sense to the jury (just for the sake of argument, I don't think this is actually part of the case, as you pointed out).  But what does anything Beth ever said or did to someone else prove about whether being called by her mother's name is upsetting?   

Even if she has called someone else something worse a hundred times, well ... so what?  It doesn't offset her feelings about Jason saying something menacing or purposely hurtful to her.   It means nothing.  She can be as big a bitch as any bitch has ever bitched, and it just doesn't matter.  The nastiest people on earth can still be harassed.  The law doesn't set a limit on how awful a person is allowed to be before they forfeit their right to complain about being tormenting by someone else who has no legitimate reason to be bugging them.

[zoeysmom]

22 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

You seem to be suggesting that something Bethenny said might be offered as justification for Jason threatening Bethenny.  But under the law, nothing justifies making threats.  The law is quite clear on this point.

 

I am well aware of the elements of the crime.  No need to drag out the google, lol

Certainly Bethenny would be expected to explain why she found being called Bernadette offensive so it would make sense to the jury (just for the sake of argument, I don't think this is actually part of the case, as you pointed out).  But what does anything Beth ever said or did to someone else prove about whether being called by her mother's name is upsetting?   

Even if she has called someone else something worse a hundred times, well ... so what?  It doesn't offset her feelings about Jason saying something menacing or purposely hurtful to her.   It means nothing.  She can be as big a bitch as any bitch has ever bitched, and it just doesn't matter.  The nastiest people on earth can still be harassed.  The law doesn't set a limit on how awful a person is allowed to be before they forfeit their right to complain about being tormenting by someone else who has no legitimate reason to be bugging them.

 

First off I haven't seen any threats of physical violence.  If Bethenny has indicated, alluded or stated she is going to cut off Jason's custodial rights I would think he would be justified in asserting his insistence he will not go away and be put out of his child's life.  I don't think Jason wants a place in Bethenny's life it sounds more to me as if he doesn't want to be put out of his daughter's life.  And perhaps there are some behaviors he does not want his daughter exposed to.

This about a person and them suffering material harm to their emotional and mental health.  Bethenny has admitted to calling the defendant names and threatening him with never seeing his child again.  Entirely relevant to his state of mind.  The nastiest person on earth can be or feel harassed it doesn't mean the accused will be convicted. 

Since there is no evidence as of yet it is difficult to discuss specifics.  I would be the first one to condemn Jason if there were repetitive emails that satisfied the elements of the crime. For example- I don't know why Jason wanted a face to face meeting but asking for one does not seem to be harassing in and of its self.  If the sole reason was to discuss something about the child's behavior it would seem reasonable,  All we read is-he wanted a face to face meeting.  Sounds ominous could be totally appropriate.  I can also see how someone would dread the idea of even seeing their ex for a minute let alone having to talk with them after four years of litigation.

[motorcitymom65]

5 hours ago, breezy424 said:

Again, when did Jason call Beth Berndette?  Was it in the emails?  Or was it something Beth declared in the custody trial?

I don't think we know, but this came from Carole in the Berkshire's when she was talking about him sending her unwanted communications. She might not have been talking about the emails, just mentioning it in the context of the lousy way he treats/talks to Bethenny. I would not think she was talking about things that happened during the custody days, as that would have been a couple of years ago and might not have been breaking news to some. 

[Jel]

31 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

I don't think we know, but this came from Carole in the Berkshire's when she was talking about him sending her unwanted communications. She might not have been talking about the emails, just mentioning it in the context of the lousy way he treats/talks to Bethenny. I would not think she was talking about things that happened during the custody days, as that would have been a couple of years ago and might not have been breaking news to some. 

That was the impression I got; that he was calling her "Bernadette" and using it as a pointed and emotionally loaded insult.

That impression comes via Carole's comment that "he calls her Bernadette", which was one thing in a list of the things that Jason does to Bethenny.   If that's true, it seems pretty obvious that his intention there is to use the name as an insult. And a pretty below the belt one at that, given how she feels about the mothering she got from Bernadette.

From Carole's description it sounded like he was using it as a jab, not a "Bethenny, I think you are wrong and being unfair because you are behaving like Bernadette did when you were little". 

And besides, is there really a way to put (alleged) comments like "I will destroy you" or "she's pure evil" in a positive light? "There’s nothing you can do to stop me. You’ll be sorry. You’ve been warned. I can’t help it". Does that sound like a reasonable way to express pure "concern for his daughter"? To me, it sounds vengeful, bitter, angry and intimidating and potentially out of control.  Is anyone suggesting that those words (if he wrote them) are an appropriate way for an adult man to communicate with the mother of his child, no matter how angry and frustrated he felt? Seriously. 

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

And besides, is there really a way to put (alleged) comments like "I will destroy you" or "she's pure evil" in a positive light? "There’s nothing you can do to stop me. You’ll be sorry. You’ve been warned. I can’t help it". Does that sound like a reasonable way to express pure "concern for his daughter"? To me, it sounds vengeful, bitter, angry and intimidating and potentially out of control.  Is anyone suggesting that those words (if he wrote them) are an appropriate way for an adult man to communicate with the mother of his child, no matter how angry and frustrated he felt? Seriously. 

Yeah, this more than "Bernedette" is why I suspect he's on trial for stalking. Call me crazy, but I don't know what context you can use "I will destroy you" in a non threatening 'I'm just a concerned father' way. Likewise "you'll be sorry" and "there's nothng you can do to stop me". If this got said to me while I was dropping the niece off at school... I wouldn't be all "hey thanks for your pure concern as a father" to the niece's dad, I'd be dialing the goddamn police.

I'm also not without a reasonable side - I understand the idea that Jason might have felt he had his back up against a wall, he might have had a lapse in judgement that won't happen again. If he's found guilty, he doesn't deserve to be boiled in oil or whatever... but he does need to understand that the reason he got in trouble is because he crossed a line. I mean really, it's like they're both becoming Bernedette.

[QuinnM]

28 minutes ago, ZoloftBlob said:

I'm also not without a reasonable side - I understand the idea that Jason might have felt he had his back up against a wall, he might have had a lapse in judgement that won't happen again. If he's found guilty, he doesn't deserve to be boiled in oil or whatever...

I get an outburst at a face to face as well.  Doesn't make it right but it does make it just someone with a short fuse.  He loses me due to the 170 emails over 2 months.  This is someone obsessed for some reason.  Sit down face to face?  No, it was a mean divorce and the only sit down I would do would be with lawyers and a mediator where we decide how to communicate through a third party.

I should start a count down clock for August 7 but I've been disappointed twice before.

[zoeysmom]

1 hour ago, Jel said:

That was the impression I got; that he was calling her "Bernadette" and using it as a pointed and emotionally loaded insult.

That impression comes via Carole's comment that "he calls her Bernadette", which was one thing in a list of the things that Jason does to Bethenny.   If that's true, it seems pretty obvious that his intention there is to use the name as an insult. And a pretty below the belt one at that, given how she feels about the mothering she got from Bernadette.

From Carole's description it sounded like he was using it as a jab, not a "Bethenny, I think you are wrong and being unfair because you are behaving like Bernadette did when you were little". 

And besides, is there really a way to put (alleged) comments like "I will destroy you" or "she's pure evil" in a positive light? "There’s nothing you can do to stop me. You’ll be sorry. You’ve been warned. I can’t help it". Does that sound like a reasonable way to express pure "concern for his daughter"? To me, it sounds vengeful, bitter, angry and intimidating and potentially out of control.  Is anyone suggesting that those words (if he wrote them) are an appropriate way for an adult man to communicate with the mother of his child, no matter how angry and frustrated he felt? Seriously. 

I believe what came up last night was the question of whether there has been any news articles wherein Jason's e-mails contain him calling Bethenny "Bernadette" or saying "I will destroy you."  What has been pointed out is it seems there may be some mixing of the custody hearing testimony with the content of Jason's e-mails sent in 2016-2017.  Last night we were trying to find articles that had content of the e-mails, versus what Carole said on the show.  If we are visiting the way back machine (meaning behavior that has already been litigated Jason may be hurt by being called white trash or fearful Bethenny as promised will never let him see his child again).  It isn't Carole's job to present a factual case as it applies to the case.  She couldn't even get her conversation with Barbara correct.

Collectively, we don't know what Jason is responding to.  My theory at the school is Jason was ticked between Shields came to the school after asking Jason to leave him alone.  There also may be a second issue regarding Bryn that Jason felt needed discussing with Bethenny and he did not want to put it in writing.  There was a weird email from Jason to Bethenny along the lines of how "she spoke in the phone".  These parents have a least one call a day back and forth between their homes.  It doesn't see all that difficult to speak to each other.  The last weird thing from the episode this week was Bethenny saying the were a lot of nothing emails.  A couple of weeks ago we were discussing Jason's, "I'll pray for you," as a threat.

[Celia Rubenstein]

Why does it matter what Jason was responding to? The only issue is whether he made threats that broke the law. It doesn't matter what motivated him to do it.

The only aspect of his state of mind that is relevant is whether he should have known what he was doing would cause Bethany fear.  Whether he had good reason to be pissed off at her or not doesn't matter.

Edited July 7, 2017 by Celia Rubenstein

[zoeysmom]

9 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Why does it matter what Jason was responding to? The only issue is whether he made threats that broke the law. It doesn't matter what motivated him to do it.

Of course it matters.  It is not the only issue.  There is a justification defense in these charges.  There is a legitimate reason exception.  The prosecutor had to establish Jason had no legitimate purpose in being at the school or even contacting Bethenny.  If Jason is being told through Bethenny or her surrogates that his parental rights will be terminated then he has a right to respond.  If he is being told the child won't be available for pick up of course he has a right to respond.  A "threat" of I am not going away can mean-you will not intimidate me and chase me out of my child's life.  It could also mean I will not get off your doorstep or out of your driveway.  So context matters.

By virtue of the fact these two have a child in common they were forced to communicate to some degree. 

For the sake of discussion let's say when Jason returns Bryn and she is prone to a little temper tantrum.  He wants to walk her to the door of the apartment. Bethenny wants the doorman to call her  and  will meet the elevator on her floor there by depriving Bryn (and rightfully so) of the opportunity to act out..  There are emails, maybe his go unanswered as Bethenny feels she has stated her position.  Granted both these parties are extremely snarky and the substance may get buried in the bile but nonetheless there is a valid issue.  So if in her e-mail Bethenny tells Jason to just put Bryn in the elevator and just go away-she could mean as in get out of the building so Bryn doesn't throw a fit.  Jason could interpret it as a permanent suggestion.

The prosecution does not have to prove a motive but I am certain they will argue some variety of what people here give as a reason why Jason is angry and harassing Bethenny.

[WireWrap]

11 hours ago, smores said:

No, that doesn't give him the right.  Then he needs to man up and address them as they come.  He can balls up and say "B, you're doing x, and I believe it's not healthy for Bryn.  This would be better"  Or, he could go to his lawyer and have it addressed in a parenting plan.  He doesn't get to push emotional buttons.  Also, it wouldn't seem like an effective way to make things better, but that's just my opinion.  

I've addressed my opinion on both sides calling names.  I don't think it's appropriate for either one to do it, however, I would be willing to "let it slide" if it happened back around the time of the initial split, as I can see how things are a lot more crazy then.  You'd expect that as the initial shock settles down, that would stop, and 4 years later, it's inexcusable on either side.

Maybe he did in fact do as you suggest and Bethenny still kept doing it, then what? Jason doesn't have the deep pockets Bethenny has, so taking her to court time and time again is out of the question. What some here are saying is that Bethenny can do and say as she wants and that Jason has to just suck it up, which is wrong IMO. Both of them need to behave better/grow up, not just Jason.

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

A couple of weeks ago we were discussing Jason's, "I'll pray for you," as a threat.

I can honestly say that this phrase has been said to me in the context of a threat.

Quote

There is a justification defense in these charges. 

A justification defense, meaning he had reason to stalk her and threaten her?

Quote

If Jason is being told through Bethenny or her surrogates that his parental rights will be terminated then he has a right to respond. 

Of course. That's why we have lawyers. No one is saying "Jason isn't allowed to respond to Bethenny at all", he just has to respond in socially acceptable ways. Contacting a lawyer to reaffirm his parental rights is not what got him arrested.

Quote

  If he is being told the child won't be available for pick up of course he has a right to respond. 

No one saying 'Jason has no right to respond'. He *does* have to respond in a socially acceptable way. If he was making a scene in a public place and saying "I'm never going away!" and behaving badly, that's not a socially acceptable way to respond to the child not being available for pick up.

Quote

  A "threat" of I am not going away can mean-you will not intimidate me and chase me out of my child's life.  It could also mean I will not get off your doorstep or out of your driveway.  So context matters.

And this does go both ways. For example "I'm not going away" sounds a lot more threatening when taken in the context that he's also said "I will destroy you" in prior interactions.

I don't think there's any real need to prove motive - they're divorced and custody is an issue and the divorce wasn't amicable. I've just justified why Jason was angry. The question is whether his anger allows him to get a free pass for acting badly and whether his actions rise to the level of a crime, being socially unacceptable for an adult that isn't mentally incompetent.

[smores]

Ok, let's go down the "I'll pray for you" rabbit hole again.  First, I'll establish that I am not religious at all, so, it's not something I say to people, because it's not a thing that I do.  But, let's say I fall down and break my leg.  I have some pretty religious relatives who would say "I'll pray for you" and I'd take it as well wishes for my leg to heal quickly and painlessly.  No big deal, well meant sentiments and I take them in the spirit in which they were said.

Now, let's pretend that I am a lesbian and I am out with my girlfriend at a park.  Someone comes up to us and starts talking about how being gay is against god's will and anyone who is gay is going to go to hell.  We reply that we'll take our chances.  That person then spits out "I'll pray for you" turns on their heels and walks away.  That would feel more like an insult or a threat.  It's not a kind sentiment that you take well.

As for Jason calling B Bernadette, I said that "assuming he did" because we don't actually know.  But, again, that works both ways.  Just as people are pulling out some articles and saying, look, it's not on the 4 walls of this article (to quote Judge Judy), there were 160 or more email.  They aren't ALL listed in the articles that hit Page Six, People magazine, etc.  There are just a few examples.  So, maybe there is one that has Jason calling her Bernadette.  Maybe there isn't. Also, it's far more likely that he would just call her Bernadette in person, as that would be the most effective way to use the insult, and it's also the most sneaky and manipulative way.  No record, done quietly enough, no one else hears, etc.  Did it happen? Maybe.  Maybe not.  But, no one can say for a fact that it didn't, which is what seems to be happening if an article can't be found to show it.

Lastly, if Jason were to go to court and try to address B's behavior, and she didn't change it, then he could go back to court.  Yes, B has more money, but there are other ways.  If it's a straightforward dispute, he doesn't really always need a lawyer.  Or, it can be set up so that if x conditions aren't met by y date, then she is being held in contempt of court.  Or, at the end of the day, there is always legal aid.  What Jason can't do, though, is use any of that as an excuse for harassing someone or stalking them.  "Your Honor, I couldn't afford a lawyer to get B to answer my emails about Bryn's dr's appts, so I had to cause a scene at her school?"  He's ultimately in control of his own behavior (or, I guess not, really), he's responsible for what HE does, he can't control B, but he needs to make sure what HE does is legal, appropriate, etc.  That goes both ways, of course, B has to do the same, regardless of what Jason does.

[WireWrap]

43 minutes ago, smores said:

Ok, let's go down the "I'll pray for you" rabbit hole again.  First, I'll establish that I am not religious at all, so, it's not something I say to people, because it's not a thing that I do.  But, let's say I fall down and break my leg.  I have some pretty religious relatives who would say "I'll pray for you" and I'd take it as well wishes for my leg to heal quickly and painlessly.  No big deal, well meant sentiments and I take them in the spirit in which they were said.

Now, let's pretend that I am a lesbian and I am out with my girlfriend at a park.  Someone comes up to us and starts talking about how being gay is against god's will and anyone who is gay is going to go to hell.  We reply that we'll take our chances.  That person then spits out "I'll pray for you" turns on their heels and walks away.  That would feel more like an insult or a threat.  It's not a kind sentiment that you take well.

As for Jason calling B Bernadette, I said that "assuming he did" because we don't actually know.  But, again, that works both ways.  Just as people are pulling out some articles and saying, look, it's not on the 4 walls of this article (to quote Judge Judy), there were 160 or more email.  They aren't ALL listed in the articles that hit Page Six, People magazine, etc.  There are just a few examples.  So, maybe there is one that has Jason calling her Bernadette.  Maybe there isn't. Also, it's far more likely that he would just call her Bernadette in person, as that would be the most effective way to use the insult, and it's also the most sneaky and manipulative way.  No record, done quietly enough, no one else hears, etc.  Did it happen? Maybe.  Maybe not.  But, no one can say for a fact that it didn't, which is what seems to be happening if an article can't be found to show it.

Lastly, if Jason were to go to court and try to address B's behavior, and she didn't change it, then he could go back to court.  Yes, B has more money, but there are other ways.  If it's a straightforward dispute, he doesn't really always need a lawyer.  Or, it can be set up so that if x conditions aren't met by y date, then she is being held in contempt of court.  Or, at the end of the day, there is always legal aid.  What Jason can't do, though, is use any of that as an excuse for harassing someone or stalking them.  "Your Honor, I couldn't afford a lawyer to get B to answer my emails about Bryn's dr's appts, so I had to cause a scene at her school?"  He's ultimately in control of his own behavior (or, I guess not, really), he's responsible for what HE does, he can't control B, but he needs to make sure what HE does is legal, appropriate, etc.  That goes both ways, of course, B has to do the same, regardless of what Jason does.

I don't think anyone here has suggested that Jason confronting Bethenny/Shields at Bryn's school was the right thing to do, everyone I have read have all said it was a stupid/bad move on his part. That said, those of us not jumping on the Jason is "guilty" train is because we only have 1/2 of the story and we are unwilling to make a judgement on anything based solely on Bethenny's words. Bethenny is not some innocent victim in this fight, she is an equal participant and possible the initial agitator at times as well IMO.

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

Bethenny is not some innocent victim in this fight, she is an equal participant and possible the initial agitator at times as well IMO.

In a court of law, that she's been a bitch in the past is not an excuse for Jason to commit criminal acts.

To use a non Bethenny example.... a person can namecall someone all they want. It's rude. It's morally questionable at best. But if the person being namecalled then hauls off and beats the shit out of the name caller... it's still assault.

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

Bethenny is as much Bernadette, as Luann is a slut- what was it screeched at in pointblank range? "You are a slut you fuck EVERYONE!"

Bethenny dishes it out but can't take it. She is a big fat (skinny) bully. I don't blame Jason for wanting to let her know that she'll never stop him in a quest to be involved with Brynn, and that he will destroy this fantasy spin she sells to her fans. It's all smoke and mirrors. 

It is possible that Bethenny suffered an unprovoked attack from  him but I doubt it. If she will throw down to Lu like that as a guest in someone's home on television in front of millions then she is capable of anything, provocation wise off camera that would make the Luann attack look bland. I am the first one who stands up for victim shaming and rejecting the victim "asked for it". However I cannot shake the shit she says about others on camera. I can't imagine she tones it down off camera. 

[WireWrap]

7 minutes ago, ZoloftBlob said:

In a court of law, that she's been a bitch in the past is not an excuse for Jason to commit criminal acts.

To use a non Bethenny example.... a person can namecall someone all they want. It's rude. It's morally questionable at best. But if the person being namecalled then hauls off and beats the shit out of the name caller... it's still assault.

He has not been convicted of anything and no one hit Bethenny, let alone beat her or even threaten her with physical harm.

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

He has not been convicted of anything and no one hit Bethenny, let alone beat her or even threaten her with physical harm.

I have always pointedly noted that he has yet to be tried and I clearly referenced the above as a non Bethenny example so I do not understand why you are chiding me for saying "Jason is convicted" when I didn't, and for using an example where I clearly state it is not related to Bethenny.

eta - And call me crazy but I think "I will destroy you" is a threat of physical harm but MMV and I can wait for the trial to establish the facts

Edited July 7, 2017 by ZoloftBlob

[smores]

See, here is a problem that keeps happening.  People use something clearly as an example.  Specifically in that post it was said "it's a non B example"  and then the reply is that Jason didn't do that to B.  Of course he didn't! No one said he did! It was said from the beginning that it was a non-related to the situation example.  

[WireWrap]

1 minute ago, ZoloftBlob said:

I have always pointedly noted that he has yet to be tried and I clearly referenced the above as a non Bethenny example so I do not understand why you are chiding me for saying "Jason is convicted" when I didn't, and for using an example where I clearly state it is not related to Bethenny.

You stated "that she's been a bitch in the past is not an excuse for Jason to commit criminal acts" but that hasn't been decided yet. Yes, he was charged but he hasn't been convicted so that means there is still a question if he committed anything illegal or not. As for the rest, I stand by what I said because your example was not comparable to anything going on with Bethenny/Jason.

[OnceSane]

The blatant violations of our mod notes need to stop.  No snarking each other means exactly that.  This thread is temporarily locked.

[Lemons]

On 7/7/2017 at 2:03 AM, zoeysmom said:

Well if I am a juror, I am sure as hell going to wonder why Bethenny would be offended by being called by her mother's name.  Which apparently may not even be the case.  For it to come into evidence the attorney has to lay the foundation why it would be offensive.  I would go back to the elements of the crime the prosecutor has to prove but it proved to be a huge clusterchuck when I cited the jury instructions. 

 

He's charged with harrassment, not offending Bethany.  His intent will matter.  Apparently he had no reason to send all those emails and he had no reason to follow her at the school.  Other than to harrass her that is. 

Why Bethany might be offended by the mother comment won't come up. 

[zoeysmom]

27 minutes ago, Lemons said:

He's charged with harrassment, not offending Bethany.  His intent will matter.  Apparently he had no reason to send all those emails and he had no reason to follow her at the school.  Other than to harrass her that is. 

Why Bethany might be offended by the mother comment won't come up. 

There are elements of the crime that must be met.  Certainly sending a bunch of e-mails that mean nothing aren't really at the harassment stage.  People get spam everyday. 

Jason was at the school for his day to watch his daughter's recital.  He had a legitimate reason to be at the school.

All I may saying is if a witness says-he called me by mother's name.  Most people would want to know why that would cause her material emotional or mental harm.   This is a criminal case as you said intent matters, justification matters, prior history between the two matter.  So being offended is an element in essence it is all about why the statement or the e-mail would rise to the level of harassment.  

[zoeysmom]

39 minutes ago, Lemons said:

He's charged with harrassment, not offending Bethany.  His intent will matter.  Apparently he had no reason to send all those emails and he had no reason to follow her at the school.  Other than to harrass her that is. 

Why Bethany might be offended by the mother comment won't come up. 

Carole is the one who brought it up as part of the brutal torturous things Jason was doing.  SO it would relevant.

[BBHN]

Quote

Carole is the one who brought it up as part of the brutal torturous things Jason was doing.  SO it would relevant.

What does Carole have to do with the trial?

[zoeysmom]

7 minutes ago, BBHN said:

What does Carole have to do with the trial?

It is all about context-Carole is the one who brought up Jason calling Bethenny "Bernadette" this season.  So if it is one of those comments that offends her so deeply and Jason referred to her as Bernadette in one or more of the emails> There has been considerable commentary on how devastating that would be to Bethenny.  Carole brought it up on the show.  Somehow I think this has been covered before.

[BBHN]

That doesn't necessarily mean it will be part of the trial. Carole is neither a material witness nor a lawyer involved in the case...

[KungFuBunny]

Jason DoucHoppy - Stalker Rat

[RedheadZombie]

7 minutes ago, KungFuBunny said:

Jason DoucHoppy - Stalker Rat

Is that a rat?  It looks like some hybrid that involves a bunny and a Guinea pig. 

[KungFuBunny]

Just now, RedheadZombie said:

Is that a rat?  It looks like some hybrid that involves a bunny and a Guinea pig. 

No bunny!!!

Guinea Pig yes

[BBHN]

Pig for sure.

[Wicked]

Hamster

[Celia Rubenstein]

I hope Jason calling Beth by her mother's name was part of his email campaign and I hope the reason why it was such a rotten thing to say does get explained in the trial ... it shows how nasty a little bitch boy Jason really is and makes it obvious he was trying very hard to upset his ex wife. 

Edited July 8, 2017 by Celia Rubenstein

[bagger]

2 hours ago, BBHN said:

That doesn't necessarily mean it will be part of the trial. Carole is neither a material witness nor a lawyer involved in the case...

Carol brought it up as an example of Jason's behavior not as an example of what was in the texts or emails. Just like she brought up other things she witnessed when spending time with B and Bryn 

[zoeysmom]

4 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

I hope Jason calling Beth by her mother's name was part of his email campaign and I hope the reason why it was such a rotten thing to say does get explained in the trial ... it shows how nasty a little bitch boy Jason really is and makes it obvious he was trying very hard to upset his ex wife. 

Jason reference to Bernadette was about Bethenny trying to do to him what her mother did to her father.  Hardly noteworthy.  It is on these threads because of Carole's reference that people have made a huge deal over delicate snowflake Bethenny being called Bernadette.  No evidence to support the claim just Carole's musings.

[Celia Rubenstein]

When was it established that Jason was simply saying he wouldn't let Bethenny do to him what Bernadette did to her father? 

Is this just speculation or has the full text of what he said been published somewhere?  Because if it hasn't been, then there is no way to know what the context of his remark was.  

[breezy424]

I think the whole Beth told Carole who told the world that Jason has called her Bernadette is interesting.  Some think that this is so hurtful to Beth.  Even though we don't know how many times he's even said it.  But let's go back to the custody hearing where Beth admitted that she told Jason that he would never see his daughter again.  Wouldn't that be hurtful to Jason?  Isn't that what Beth's mother, Bernadette, did to Beth's father?  

So, I just can't get on the Beth is so hurt about being called by her mother's name when she threatened her daughter's father with the same thing that her mother did.   And maybe that's why Jason allegedly said in an email that he will never let Beth do what her mother did to her dad.

http://pagesix.com/2017/01/31/bethennys-ex-thinks-shes-pure-evil/

There's a whole lot of stuff that went down with these two and Jason is no innocent but so is Beth.  We have very little of the whole picture.

Edited July 9, 2017 by breezy424

[zoeysmom]

44 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

I think the whole Beth told Carole who told the world that Jason has called her Bernadette is interesting.  Some think that this is so hurtful to Beth.  Even though we don't know how many times he's even said it.  But let's go back to the custody hearing where Beth admitted that she told Jason that he would never see his daughter again.  Wouldn't that be hurtful to Jason?  Isn't that what Beth's mother, Bernadette, did to Beth's father?  

So, I just can't get on the Beth is so hurt about being called by her mother's name when she threatened her daughter's father with the same thing that her mother did.   And maybe why Jason allegedly said in an email that he will never let Beth do what her mother did to her dad.

http://pagesix.com/2017/01/31/bethennys-ex-thinks-shes-pure-evil/

There's a whole lot of stuff that went down with these two and Jason is no innocent but so Beth.  We have very little of the whole picture.

I am more interested in how this maps out with the child.  I can't imagine Bethenny rationalizing with the child she wants to send her dad to jail.  I may say a lot of negative things about Bethenny but I think she may have bitten off more than she can chew.  She speaks of Luann being resilient after all the trash she had thrown her way and I just think upon review although Jason may be a huge pain in the ass he is still Bryn's dad.  If she can dish out she should realize that person she is publicly resounds privately.

[BBHN]

Quote

I can't imagine Bethenny rationalizing with the child she wants to send her dad to jail.

Bethenny isn't the one trying to send him to jail, that would be prosecutors.

Quote

It is on these threads because of Carole's reference that people have made a huge deal over delicate snowflake Bethenny being called Bernadette.  No evidence to support the claim just Carole's musings.

It might be on these threads, but so is a lot of other shit not relevant to the trial...

Quote

When was it established that Jason was simply saying he wouldn't let Bethenny do to him what Bernadette did to her father? 

Is this just speculation or has the full text of what he said been published somewhere?  Because if it hasn't been, then there is no way to know what the context of his remark was.  

Food for thought...

[breezy424]

1 hour ago, zoeysmom said:

I am more interested in how this maps out with the child.  I can't imagine Bethenny rationalizing with the child she wants to send her dad to jail.  I may say a lot of negative things about Bethenny but I think she may have bitten off more than she can chew.  She speaks of Luann being resilient after all the trash she had thrown her way and I just think upon review although Jason may be a huge pain in the ass he is still Bryn's dad.  If she can dish out she should realize that person she is publicly resounds privately.

Yeah.  I agree that Beth chewed more than she can chew.  Going back to the snow lodge and Beth's shock looking at her phone.  I don't think she thought that the charges were going to be as serious as it turned out to be.

The victim in all of this is their child.  They're both at fault.

[breezy424]

1 hour ago, BBHN said:

Bethenny isn't the one trying to send him to jail, that would be prosecutors.

It might be on these threads, but so is a lot of other shit not relevant to the trial...

Food for thought...

Beth is the one who went to the police station along with her lawyers and apparently some friends.  She's now dealing with 'her' decisions.  Is any of this in the best interest of her daughter?  No, IMO.  She went down this road and I do think she will come to regret it.

Beth is no innocent in all of this.  If she was truly concerned about the best interests of her child, she would have kept her mouth shut about the divorce and custody.  Instead of talking about her hell and torture and dungeon bs she could have  stated that it's a private matter.  Beth needed to shut up a long time ago.

The most important person in all of this is their child.  Both are wrong.  But to say that Beth is some victim just doesn't cut it for me.  She's just as guilty, if more so, than Jason.  She plays her game as well.  And continues to do so.

[smores]

I guess I'll just never understand the mindset that someone is supposed to just take whatever someone else does "for the children"  I mean, my father didn't pay the child support he was supposed to and he got hauled back into court over it.  Should my mom have just let it go? (Granted, this was back in the day, so they didn't have laws where licenses got taken or you got put in jail or anything, they just said "you need to start paying" and then lather, rinse, repeat)  He chose not to pay, he had an obligation, he created the situation.

Likewise, he was actually kind of a shitty husband, who wasn't really much for working and providing for his family.  But, "for the children" should my mom have just put up with it and stayed married? Would it have been in our best interest?  (I can answer that - NO)

If someone is doing something that can cause them to be arrested, that's on the person who does said thing.  It's not on the person they do it to.  The person who is having the thing done to them isn't really under any obligation to just keep putting up with it "for the children" If there was nothing to be arrested for (note, I am not saying anyone is guilty, I am saying to be arrested for), then no one would be arrested.  But, if someone is arrested, then odds are pretty high they have done something that they deserve to be arrested for.

[film noire]

14 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

The most important person in all of this is their child. 

Yes -- and it's such a fucked up situation because the stakes are impossibly high. If he stalked her, she did the right thing. If he didn't stalk her,  she did the most wrong thing she's ever likely to do. There's no option that doesn't leave chaos in its wake and Bryn wondering (when she's older) what her parents were fucking thinking.

Edited July 9, 2017 by film noire

[ShawnaLanne]

On 6/30/2017 at 3:09 PM, BBHN said:

....

But why should it be shot anywhere? SkinnyGirl is what paid for that apartment that Jason was squatting for, and for whatever other luxuries he was experiencing. It definitely sounds like it was a dick move on his part.

If positions were reversed they'd be talking about what a mannerless, attention speaking ho she is.  Heck,  people did that when she changed shirts in her bedroom. 

On 6/30/2017 at 8:41 PM, motorcitymom65 said:

Really well articulated. This kind of gets to the heart of it. Folks always talks about how much she lies. Beth is big on hyperbole. And she exaggerates. But we know that. We have always known that. She doesn't try to mask it. No, of course she wasn't raised by wolves. We know that. But it was clearly horrible. Her mother is clearly horrible. Her Step dad didn't deny that it was all horrible when she met with him a few seasons ago. People cannot let it be true that it was horrible because if it was in fact horrible it could be possible that there is a reason that Beth is who she is. And no one wants that to be possible. Some talk about worrying for Brynn because of Beth, which is saying that the way you are raised can seriously fuck you up. Many don't want for Beth to have any excuse for being fucked up. So it must not have really been that bad. 

The homeless thing was insensitive I thought. But it wasn't like she was trying to lie to us or to trick us. She said she had fancy hotels to stay in and an apartment that was being renovated. We saw her Hampton's home, so it wasn't like she was trying to lie to us about having a roof over her head. She kind of assumed we were smart enough to know that she wasn't actually homeless, but she felt like she didn't have a real home to raise her daughter in. Just like when I say I am hungry enough to eat a horse. I am assuming that people know I am not really going to do that. I am so glad that every single phrase I utter is not researched, analyzed for photographic evidence to the contrary, and just basically taken apart bit by bit to find a potential falsehood. 

So,  I had a crap childhood and I have described it in the past as being raised by wolves, in my head this gets to the heart of what it is. 

It's shorthand,  without going into alllllll of the drama. 

Edited July 9, 2017 by ShawnaLanne

[ShawnaLanne]

On 6/30/2017 at 7:04 PM, Jel said:

The Hoppynopantsgate Scandal of '13 is bringing me great joy!

I just wonder was it a quick, "oops, how embarrassing I'll go change" thing or if it was more a free wheelin' Seventies vibe?  

Oh,  I'm thinking a malicious I'll humiliate the breadwinner, who keeps me and my daughter in luxury vibe, WHILE SHE IS EARNING said bread.

He's such a douche. 

On 6/30/2017 at 5:30 PM, the killer said:

No. Bethenny is the one who uses her daughter as weapon in the continuing war with her ex.  I don't doubt that Jason does that too. That is their sickness. Neither one of them can put their child first. It is shameful on both of their sides. SIckening really. A shanda if there ever was one.

I do think he is one keeping the child off of the show. Which is a very good thing. Because if Bethenny had her way I bet she would parade this poor kid in every episode. She would give Milania Giudice a run for her money.

I simply do not believe it even happened. Or happened the way she describes. It is one with her being homeless and raised by wolves. It is just more of Bethenny's Bull shit.

She should patent that. It would be a better brand for her than Skinny Girl.

Jason only started keeping her off the show when he was no longer getting paid from being on their joint show. And Saint Jason, whether convicted or not, has been witnessed by people other than Bethany or her people,  acting in a threatening manner at his daughter's school. These are facts. He's a real winner. 

Edited July 9, 2017 by ShawnaLanne

[Celia Rubenstein]

14 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

Going back to the snow lodge and Beth's shock looking at her phone.  I don't think she thought that the charges were going to be as serious as it turned out to be.

Oh, I think she knew.  She didn't walk into that police station with no idea what might happen. I'm sure she did some research and probably talked to a lawyer at some point and knew what charges Jason might face and what the penalties could be.  She didn't just breeze into the police station on impulse.

 

11 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

Is any of this in the best interest of her daughter? 

It's not great for Bryn, obviously.  But neither is letting Jason spiral out of control.  Behavior of the type he is accused of needs a stop put to it before it escalates.  

It would be a lot worse for Bryn if he ended up doing something that he could spend years locked up for, much much worse.

 

18 minutes ago, ShawnaLanne said:

And Saint Jason, whether convicted or not, has been witnessed by people other than Bethany or her people,  acting in a threatening manner at his daughter's school. These are facts. He's a real winner. 

I for one am very interested in hearing what any bystanders have to say about what went down that day.  Maybe finally someone will be considered an unbiased witness who is not under Bethenny's control and their accounts will be considered something other than a cruel attempt to smear poor Jason. 

[BBHN]

Quote

 Beth is the one who went to the police station along with her lawyers and apparently some friends.  She's now dealing with 'her' decisions.  Is any of this in the best interest of her daughter?  No, IMO.  She went down this road and I do think she will come to regret it.

Yes, in response to him violating a restraining order, among other things. This isn't something she just did out of the blue, this was in response to to things he had already done. This isn't "what came first, the chicken or the egg?" situation, this is something that resulted from Jason acting the fool.

And Bethenny isn't the one on trial here. Jason is.

Quote

If she was truly concerned about the best interests of her child, she would have kept her mouth shut about the divorce and custody.  Instead of talking about her hell and torture and dungeon bs she could have  stated that it's a private matter.  Beth needed to shut up a long time ago.

Maybe she is sending a message to her daughter, don't stay in a shitty relationship, don't accept anyone stalking and harassing you, stand up for yourself, etc.

And what does any what you said have to with the current stalking and harassing charges? That's on Jason, not Bethenny.

Quote

I guess I'll just never understand the mindset that someone is supposed to just take whatever someone else does "for the children"  I mean, my father didn't pay the child support he was supposed to and he got hauled back into court over it.  Should my mom have just let it go? (Granted, this was back in the day, so they didn't have laws where licenses got taken or you got put in jail or anything, they just said "you need to start paying" and then lather, rinse, repeat)  He chose not to pay, he had an obligation, he created the situation.

Likewise, he was actually kind of a shitty husband, who wasn't really much for working and providing for his family.  But, "for the children" should my mom have just put up with it and stayed married? Would it have been in our best interest?  (I can answer that - NO)

If someone is doing something that can cause them to be arrested, that's on the person who does said thing.  It's not on the person they do it to.  The person who is having the thing done to them isn't really under any obligation to just keep putting up with it "for the children" If there was nothing to be arrested for (note, I am not saying anyone is guilty, I am saying to be arrested for), then no one would be arrested.  But, if someone is arrested, then odds are pretty high they have done something that they deserve to be arrested for.

Well put.

[zoeysmom]

2 hours ago, BBHN said:

Yes, in response to him violating a restraining order, among other things. This isn't something she just did out of the blue, this was in response to to things he had already done. This isn't "what came first, the chicken or the egg?" situation, this is something that resulted from Jason acting the fool.

And Bethenny isn't the one on trial here. Jason is.

Maybe she is sending a message to her daughter, don't stay in a shitty relationship, don't accept anyone stalking and harassing you, stand up for yourself, etc.

And what does any what you said have to with the current stalking and harassing charges? That's on Jason, not Bethenny.

Well put.

There is no indication Jason violated the restraining order.

Bethenny is the complaining witness without her complaining there would be no case. 

I doubt her daughter is old enough to realize that Daddy sending emails to Mommy is so traumatic for mommy.  Everyday the child is in the presence of one parent while she speaks to the other parent.

Bethenny has repeatedly and very publicly talked about the divorce.  Jason did have a right to respond.  It really isn't a chicken and egg situation.  Bethenny filed for a divorce ahs made numerous comments about the divorce and the situation with Jason.   When she has not been the one to  directly mentioned the situation Carole has mentioned it. 

[BBHN]

Quote

There is no indication Jason violated the restraining order.

Besides the arrest?

Quote

Bethenny is the complaining witness without her complaining there would be no case. 

Without his stalking and harassment, there wouldn't be a need for her to complain.

Quote

I doubt her daughter is old enough to realize that Daddy sending emails to Mommy is so traumatic for mommy.  Everyday the child is in the presence of one parent while she speaks to the other parent.

Bethenny has repeatedly and very publicly talked about the divorce. 

I also doubt her daughter is old enough to keep track of what is going on, unless Cartoon Network and Nickelodeon have suddenly had breaking news segments about the divorce and Jason's arrest. So I'm not sure what Bethenny's talking about the divorce makes it such an issue.

Quote

Jason did have a right to respond.

Apparently not in most intelligent or even possibly legal fashion, hence his ass getting arrested.

Quote

It really isn't a chicken and egg situation. 

Nope. It started with someone stalking and harassing another person...and the person doing the stalking and harassing wasn't Jason.

Quote

Bethenny filed for a divorce ahs made numerous comments about the divorce and the situation with Jason. 

So what? She deserves what she is getting because how dare she file for the divorce?

Quote

When she has not been the one to  directly mentioned the situation Carole has mentioned it. 

And so what? Carole isn't even relevant to this case.

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

Beth is the one who went to the police station along with her lawyers and apparently some friends.  She's now dealing with 'her' decisions.  Is any of this in the best interest of her daughter?  No, IMO.  She went down this road and I do think she will come to regret it.

So when should a woman go to the police when there's a problem with the ex being threatening? Apparently the police felt it was out of line enough to actually arrest Jason and we as a society generally tell women to go to the police rather than have a situation escalate. I've assisted folks with domestic issues before. I assure you, the cops tend to err on the side of not arresting people when there's not physical evidence of abuse. Since so many people insist that the trial needs to happen before Jason can be deemed guilty (which is perfectly fair) perhaps we should hold off condemning Bethenny for false charges and lying until the trial establishes that?

Because right now, the message I am getting from this is that while we publically encourage women to report domestic abuse like stalking, the message we're sending Bryn and other girls is "keep your mouth shut" -  when you think a man stalks you, you're the bitch if you dare go to the cops and you're going to be vilified and you're going to regret not allowing a man to have his way with your life.

I'm honestly shocked that Bethenny is being called a bad person for reporting a crime that actually led to someone's arrest. It was the police who made the decision to arrest Jason, all Bethenny did was report his actions... and *she's* the one damaging the child?