The Men of Sex and the City

[Bella]

For now, it will be all the men. But we could end up breaking this out according to individual characters or who they dated.

[LemonSoda]

All the men! Where to begin?

Did anyone else feel that most of the male characters were dumbed down over the years?

[WendyCR72]

Steve, as much as I liked him, was definitely dumbed down, and I think it was just so it would be easier for Miranda to dump him for the on-and-off game they played.

 

When we first saw Steve, he was reading Hemingway and went toe to toe with Miranda with the quips and barbs. For some reason, TPTB turned him into an immature man-child, for, like I said, no reason likely other than so Miranda would have a good excuse to dump him. Early Steve and late Steve seemed like two different men. Even in the SATC Kiss and Tell book, David Eigenberg thought Steve lost some intelligence along the way.

Edited June 2, 2014 by WendyR72

[LemonSoda]

It was almost like, oh this character isn't useful anymore so we'll make them be stupid or rude to validate a break up.

[LemonSoda]

Yes. Like the Russian.

Calling him the Russian annoyed me.

[CleoCaesar]

It was definitely a way of dehumanizing his character for Carrie to not use his proper name when talking to her friends. A-L-E-K. Not that hard, Carrie!

 

Well after you spend six years calling the love of your life "Mr. Big", you tend to get lax in assigning others proper names. :)

 

And Samantha straight-up changed her boyfriend's name, heh.

[Princess Sparkle]

(But then I guess the audience might have sympathized with him, or - gasp - rooted for them to stay together at the end and that could not happen.)

 

 

I hate with a passion what they did to Aleks.  I know they had to make him unlikable so that we'd want Carrie to end up with Big, but the Aleks we first met was not the one at the end of the series.  I mean, originally, the man goes out of his way to meet Carrie's friends, defends her column to his friends, and by the end, we're supposed to think this guy can't be polite to her friends at all and can't figure out why she'd want to go to a party celebrating her writing?  I feel like, perhaps, they were going to let Carrie stay with Aleks, then decided they couldn't end the show with her being with anyone other than Big, so they had to quickly make Aleks into a jerk.

 

Before they made him a total manchild, my favorite SATC guy was Steve.  And even though he broke up with her through post-it note, I will always love Berger - if only for "Nice hat!"

[ShellSeeker]

My favorite of all the guys was Harry. I just loved him from the first time they introduced him. I loved how he lusted after Charlotte right from the start, because she had probably never had anyone feel that way about her before, and it's a pretty heady feeling that every woman should experience at least once in her life.

 

I loved that he was himself with her, and just laughed off all of her uptight-ness and wouldn't change anything about himself to fit into the mold of what she thought her ideal man should be. And Charlotte finally loosened the hell up and and let herself be happy.

 

And of course, who could forget the classic "ass/white couch situation" after they got married? Even my husband (boyfriend at the time -- he watched the last part of the series with me....it was still early in the relationship) thought that was hilarious.

[Inquisitionist]

Wrong thread.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Inquisitionist

[izabella]

I liked Harry a lot, but I was never with him on the Jewish thing.  Ok, so he made a promise to his dying mother to marry a Jew.  So, basically, he got with Charlotte just to bang her and eventually drop her because she wasn't Jewish.  He never had any intention of having a serious relationship with her.  And that's fine as long as Charlotte was on the same page, which she absolutely was in the beginning.  But when that did change for her, he was all "*shrug*, you're not a Jew, never gonna happen, end of story."

[Hanahope]

Agree with above about Steve.  I always thought Miranda didn't know how lucky she was to have him.  If she really wanted some huge intellectual, she should have married one of the hundreds of men at her law firm.  Steve was completely devoted to her, except his one moment of weakness.  But it also did seem that Steve (and his writers) allowed Miranda to control most of the relationship, which marginalized him.

 

Charlotte was also very lucky in Harry, although yeah, it was definitely a big change for her to become part of the Jewish faith.  I think he did appreciate it, but it took a bit.  I always liked how he thought he was 'very lucky' to be surrounded by women (his wife and 2 girls).  So many men have a tendency to 'check out' a bit or feel 'out numbered' when there's no son.

[cpcathy]

I hated Trey with a passion. "All rightee." The thing with his mom. He was a moron.

[WendyCR72]

Trey and Bunny were Creepy with a capital C. When Charlotte walked in on Bunny watching her grown son take a bath, I didn't blame her for being icked out and running. Gross.

[Inquisitionist]

Charlotte should have run screaming a lot sooner.  She rushed into marriage with a cardboard cut-out onto which she projected her desires.  She brushed off every indication that he wasn't what she thought.  It's hard for me to feel any sympathy for her married life or her sense that she "paid" for the apartment.

[WendyCR72]

Actually, Inquisitionist, I agree with pretty much everything you wrote. It's just Mommy & Me bathtime was...eewwww.

[Mozelle]

Or create a faux slap situation to really make him villainous and deserving of expulsion from SATC-verse.

 

That was just so...out of left field. Trust me, I positively adored the chemistry between SJP and Chris Noth and was totally on board for their roller coaster relationship, but I was in disbelief that, because the writers had written themselves into a corner about Carrie and Big and the series finale, they decided to turn Alek into an "abuser" (complete with Big huffing and puffing up a flight of stairs to get at him). It didn't ruin my childhood crush on Baryshnikov, though, so it's all good.

 

One of my least favorite men was Berger and it has to do with the cowardly post-it note. In addition to that, he was such a little punk when his publisher dropped him, but Carrie got a book deal. He wouldn't let Carrie in, but then held her accountable (in a passive-aggressive way, of course) for being excited about the good thing happening in her life. I really wanted to like Berger in the beginning, too, because Ron Livingston. 

[CleoCaesar]

I really liked Berger in the beginning and thought he and Carrie made a good match. As much as I liked Barishnikov, I think it would have made a much stronger season if the final showdown, so to speak, was Berger (without his awful insecurity and passive aggressiveness) vs. Big. That would have actually been compelling to watch - a genuinely good man for Carrie vs. the history/chemistry with Big. I guess it would have been too hard for the writers. Fake slaps and cartoonish violence was easier.

[andromeda331]

She rushed into marriage with a cardboard cut-out onto which she projected her desires.

 

 

This is where I have sympathy for Trey. Yes, he had some issues. But Charlotte was determine to be married by a certain point and he just happened to be there when it happened. She wanted what she wanted and when she wanted it, the person she was marrying didn't factor into it, or else she would have taken the time to actually date and get to know Trey rather then race to the alter. Yes the bath tub was weird, but I felt bad listening to Trey talk about his childhood how his mother was never around. It also seemed like something that Charlotte might have found out before if she took the time to get to know Trey. But that never seemed to be something she wanted to do. 

[DkNNy79]

Aidan was my favorite SATC guy.  He is my ideal guy.  Cute, good job, nice, manly but not a douchebag.

 

Looking back I understand that Aidan and Carrie were never meant to be.  But during the show I hated the way Carrie treated him.  He never should've taken her back the second time.  She likes the social scene and he enjoys a night watching the ballgame with a bucket of chicken.  Perfect for me, not so much Carrie.

 

I liked Harry and Charlotte together.  They were a cute couple.  Personally, I don't know if I could've done the conversion, but it worked out for them.

Berger on paper should've worked out well for Carrie, but he was just too insecure.  And the post it?  Yikes....

 

I liked Blair Underwood's character for Miranda, but for purely selfish reasons.  He was nice to look at. :)

[WendyCR72]

I liked Blair Underwood's character for Miranda, but for purely selfish reasons.  He was nice to look at. :)

 

While I admittedly loved Steve and Miranda, I can admit Blair Underwood's Robert made for some good eye candy.

 

Unfortunately, for me, being eye candy doesn't overcome BU's usual bland (IMO) acting, so I wasn't too sorry to see him go. That said, Miranda should have been honest with him about Steve before she and Steve played tonsil hockey over Brady's cake in the laundry room.

[Mozelle]

How could I have forgotten about Blair Underwood?! The man is made of oh so fine! I have to say that one of my favorite moments after Robert and Miranda broke up was her running into him in the stairwell. It wasn't kind, but the way he rubbed in the way that he made her get during sex was just too good and funny. 

[ShellSeeker]

How could I have forgotten about Blair Underwood?! The man is made of oh so fine! I have to say that one of my favorite moments after Robert and Miranda broke up was her running into him in the stairwell. It wasn't kind, but the way he rubbed in the way that he made her get during sex was just too good and funny. 

 

That for me was one of the most awkward moments in the series, even though BU was hilarious in it. Miranda kept going on and on and on to Steve about how Robert was "madly in love with her" and how she broke his heart. It struck me as very self absorbed, and Miranda wasn't like that. I could see Carrie going on like that, but not Miranda. Maybe the "I Love You" cookie clouded her judgement. 

[MaryHedwig]

Smith is my favorite.  Where did that twenty-something get all that character, compassion and maturity? I really believed that he loved Samantha for who she was.  The thought of him waiting by the elevator after Samantha had been with Richard just melts my heart.  I also loved how sure Samantha was that he would kiss on the mouth the receptionist at the breast cancer clinic.  I wished they had showed that scene (compete with the nun looking on.)

Edited June 29, 2014 by MaryHedwig

[CleoCaesar]

Miranda kept going on and on and on to Steve about how Robert was "madly in love with her" and how she broke his heart. It struck me as very self absorbed, and Miranda wasn't like that.

 

I chalked that up to Miranda watching too much of Jules and Mimi or whatever the show was called. :) Maybe she picked up on the soap opera dialogue too much. 

 

The thought of him waiting by the elevator after Samantha had been with Richard just melts my heart.

 

It's interesting, because if the genders were reversed, there is no way that that scene would be read as anything but pathetic and codependent (woman waits for man to finish banging his ex upstairs and goes home with him). Smith was sweet though.

[MaryHedwig]

It's interesting, because if the genders were reversed, there is no way that that scene would be read as anything but pathetic and codependent (woman waits for man to finish banging his ex upstairs and goes home with him).

So true.

[lucindabelle]

I love Harry,

And it's absolutely as valid for him to want to keep his promise to his mother and marry within the faith as it is for Charlotte to want her husband to want children.

Harry told Charlotte about it when it was still very early in their relationship... At a wedding where he hadn't even met her friends yet. And they were just falling in love, it's not as if he'd been stringing her along, she'd made it clear she barely wanted to be seen with him.

If she didn't want to convert, she could have bailed then. Just as a man who didn't want children with her can bail early on.

They have different deal breakers but they are deal breakers.

In addition, Judaism is not just a religion, it's tribal, and heritable, and goes through the female line. Harry was not a jerk, just honest, as he was throughout. This was his deal breaker.

Now, if he'd stayed with Charlotte for years never intending to marry her, that would have been very wrong, I agree.

[Scarlett45]

I love Harry,

And it's absolutely as valid for him to want to keep his promise to his mother and marry within the faith as it is for Charlotte to want her husband to want children.

Harry told Charlotte about it when it was still very early in their relationship... At a wedding where he hadn't even met her friends yet. And they were just falling in love, it's not as if he'd been stringing her along, she'd made it clear she barely wanted to be seen with him.

If she didn't want to convert, she could have bailed then. Just as a man who didn't want children with her can bail early on.

They have different deal breakers but they are deal breakers.

In addition, Judaism is not just a religion, it's tribal, and heritable, and goes through the female line. Harry was not a jerk, just honest, as he was throughout. This was his deal breaker.

Now, if he'd stayed with Charlotte for years never intending to marry her, that would have been very wrong, I agree.

I love Harry too. He was a good man and great for Charlotte. I think their relationship is built for the long haul.

Yes he was rude during that first Sabbat dinner but that so much that Charlotte had a right to blow up at him- it just made her look bad. I loved when she ran into him at the Jewish singles mixer and he proposed. Swoon.

[Hanahope]

I loved when she ran into him at the Jewish singles mixer and he proposed. Swoon.

 

I think he was real impressed that she had kept following the Jewish faith even after they broke up.  It showed him that it wasn't just a fad or tactic she used for him, that she took it seriously.

[Bella]

Agreed, and her apology was heartfelt as well. She realized she'd lost the best thing she ever had, and she admitted it. Since so much of Charlotte's self-image was wrapped up in appearances, being that honest and candid was an amazing step for her.

[Scarlett45]

Agreed, and her apology was heartfelt as well. She realized she'd lost the best thing she ever had, and she admitted it. Since so much of Charlotte's self-image was wrapped up in appearances, being that honest and candid was an amazing step for her.

Her apology was real. I was telling a friend yesterday- we all make mistakes, but how you handle yourself after your mistake says a lot about you. Charlotte owning her mistake showed that she was a woman of character.

[lucindabelle]

When that episode aired I burst into tears. The only ever time I've bawled like that in a tv show was the end of season one of in the flesh when the dad relives finding his son in the cave and thinks he's all right then sees all the blood.

Harry walked in looking teary and she couldn't focus on the cute Yale guy and she apologized with tears in her eyes... And when he said that's not good enough I felt so bad and then he kneeled...

Shit, I'm crying just reliving it, so beautiful.

I also thought the romance episode contrasting the Russian and carrie and romantic gestures with Harry and Charlotte both having food poisoning and ending up holding hands on the bathroom floor was brilliant..l that's the real romance. Still adoring someone when you're having (too ladylike to spell it out)

[MaryHedwig]

When I think of Smith waiting by the elevator after Samantha had been with Richard, it just melts my heart.

 

It's interesting, because if the genders were reversed, there is no way that that scene would be read as anything but pathetic and codependent (woman waits for man to finish banging his ex upstairs and goes home with him). Smith was sweet though.

I have been thinking about this upthread interchange and have come to the conclusion that Smith must have been really messed up to have hung in there with Samantha, a women 20 years his senior who had major attachment issues.  Smith was in AA so he could have had a dark backstory.  I would love to have known it.

[Hanahope]

Rewatching season 1, I can see a lot of Skipper in how Steve ended up.  Steve started out pretty strong, but he definitely 'regressed' into an insecure man-child, which is essentially what Skipper is like.  Pretty much seems that the only reason Miranda did go back to him is because it was easier for him to care for Brady, probably because he was so much like Brady.  And deep down, I think Miranda liked being the alpha in the family.

[Princess Sparkle]

Rewatching season 1, I can see a lot of Skipper in how Steve ended up. Steve started out pretty strong, but he definitely 'regressed' into an insecure man-child, which is essentially what Skipper is like. Pretty much seems that the only reason Miranda did go back to him is because it was easier for him to care for Brady, probably because he was so much like Brady. And deep down, I think Miranda liked being the alpha in the family.

I HATE how much they dumbed down Steve. Which I really think did him, and Miranda, a disservice. I would've much preferred it if Miranda found that she loved someone who wasn't a white collar professional, but could still keep her on her toes and she connect with. As opposed to what it ended up as, Miranda making concessions, and dealing with a man she almost had to "mommy". As awkward as it was, I totally bought their fight over the suit - and each had a point, and each was being stubborn. To me, that had so much more impact than their next breakup, where he wouldn't take care of a dog he wanted and watched cartoons all day.

And to be honest, I didn't buy in the first movie that he would've cheated. I know they set up that the two had been having intimacy problems, but one thing that was consistent was that Steve worshipped Miranda - I just didn't believe he would cheat.

[Hanahope]

As awkward as it was, I totally bought their fight over the suit - and each had a point, and each was being stubborn.

 

Wasn't the suit for something to do with one of Miranda's work-functions?  I seem to recall that and I thought it wasn't right for Steve to refuse because with Miranda's career, it was important for Steve to look well-dressed at the function too.  I thought it was more that Steve placed his own feelings above respect for Miranda and her work.

[Princess Sparkle]

He didn't refuse to wear the suit though, he just didn't feel comfortable with her buying him a suit that was over a thousand dollars (though I did think it was crappy on him to bail at the last minute). They could've totally come to a middle ground though - he needed to wear a suit that wasn't corduroy, but it didn't have to be one from Barney's (or Neimans, I can't remember which Miranda took him too). If they had gone somewhere less expensive and found him a nice $300-500 suit, I think Steve would've been more amenable.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Princess Sparkle

[Inquisitionist]

Or she could have rented him a suit for the evening.

[andromeda331]

And to be honest, I didn't buy in the first movie that he would've cheated. I know they set up that the two had been having intimacy problems, but one thing that was consistent was that Steve worshipped Miranda - I just didn't believe he would cheat.

 

 

I agree that's not something Steve would have done and they didn't need it. They could have easily build off of the scene when Steve wanted to try a different position and Miranda wanted to get it over with. Steve got mad and even Miranda's friends looked at her weird when she told them about it the next day. Married people get into slumps, married women do have a lot on their plate and sometimes their intimacy takes a backseat to job, kid, and a mother-in-law with problems. Steve could have issues with it and maybe he wants or more intimacy given the fact his mother's health is bad. 

[ByTor]

And to be honest, I didn't buy in the first movie that he would've cheated. I know they set up that the two had been having intimacy problems, but one thing that was consistent was that Steve worshipped Miranda - I just didn't believe he would cheat.

I actually did buy that he would cheat on her.  I am friends with some married men who have been unfaithful, and the one thing they have in common is that they all say that they never imagined they would be "that guy" and if they could do it anybody could.  I just feel like under the right circumstances people can do things they never thought they'd be capable of doing.

[27bored]

I didn't like Harry. There, I said it.

 

I went on a rant on TWoP about how it was convenient for Harry to be Jewish except for when it came to his dick and his stomach. You can scarf down whatever you want and sleep with non-Jewish women, but if they want to commit, sorry, can't, because my mother wanted me to marry someone Jewish. That was bullshit.

 

Initially I gave Harry a pass because him and Charlotte seemed to have some good chemistry and they complemented each other well. But in hindsight, Harry struck me as a big baby. It's okay that he wasn't as refined and proper (see: bougie) as Charlotte -- I actually know what a salad fork is, but I curse like a sailor, talk about people, and wear Old Navy, so even I wouldn't be proper enough for Charlotte -- but a lot of Harry's traits were just tacky and belied a certain lack of home training. He was just a big baby. He's all at the Hamptons party "THEM TITTIES FAKE...EVERYBODY KNOWS THEM TITTIES FAKE...GREETINGS FROM SILICON VALLEY" and talking with his mouth full and leaving tea bags all over the house and walking around butt ass naked bare-assing their white furniture...I mean, Harry? You have no kind of understanding for the world around you GET YOUR ASS OFF THAT WHITE COUCH AND PUT SOME GODDAMN PANTS ON MOTHERFUCKER SHIT. [mod edit]

 

Sorry. I go off sometimes.

 

But yeah, I wasn't a fan of Harry.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Bella
offensive stereotype

[Mozelle]

So. What you're saying is that you didn't like Harry?

 

I'm not certain which of the men I really liked with the women. I think I liked Smith with Samantha, especially after he shaved his head in solidarity with her. I liked aspects of Aiden--like how he was so good with his hands. Got me wanting to date a furniture maker and whatnot--but some of his neediness was a turn off. I liked Big, but that's because I really liked Chris Noth so there's some overlap there. Who I didn't like? Steve. The man-child routine was just too much for me to handle. 

[Inquisitionist]

 some of his neediness was a turn off

 

In what ways did you find Aidan to be needy?  I thought he gave Carrie a lot of personal space and didn't really "demand" much from her.  He was considerate of her friendships and her interests.  She knew when she went after Aidan the second time that he was interested in settling down and having a family; she accepted his marriage proposal knowing this; she accepted his offer to buy her place knowing this.  I don't think it's "needy" of Aidan to expect her to follow through on her professed commitment to her, but maybe you have something else in mind.

[Mozelle]

Yeah, I do. I was turned off by the way he wanted to run right off and get married that night after whatever party it was they'd gone to. It reeked of depseration to me. Actually, it came off like he was testing her, questioning her, and if Carrie gave the wrong answer then she was screwed. It didn't inspire in me any kind of security on his part, hence why I felt that he was needy.

[Inquisitionist]

At the end of the day, though, I think Aidan was right:  Carrie was never going to really commit to him, not in the way he wanted (and what he wanted is a pretty standard way of going about your life, IMO).  She wasn't even willing to talk about a timeframe for getting married, even though setting a date is implied by the act of accepting a proposal.  I think Carried wanted to have her cake and eat it, too, WRT Aidan.  He was much better off getting the hell away from her!

[Sun-Bun]

At the end of the day, though, I think Aidan was right: Carrie was never going to really commit to him, not in the way he wanted (and what he wanted is a pretty standard way of going about your life, IMO). She wasn't even willing to talk about a timeframe for getting married, even though setting a date is implied by the act of accepting a proposal. I think Carried wanted to have her cake and eat it, too, WRT Aidan. He was much better off getting the hell away from her!

Agreed!!

Even though I wasn't a huge Aiden fan, I just thought he and Carrie were such a horrible fit.

He was just a mellow, low-maintenance, homebody sorta dude who wanted to share his life and settle down with a similar type of woman---I think he saw Carrie as something different, an interesting but fun challenge, and vise-versa for her. They were polar opposites who were drawn to each other soley based on sheer chemistry.

The thing is, he tried so hard to make Carrie into something she wasn't, which is when I knew their relationship was doomed: he tried to get her to quit smoking, tried to turn her "bonified city girl" self into an outdoorsy gal, and hoped that one day she'd settle down into quiet domesticity as a wife and mother with him.

That's when he really got on my nerves because he couldn't see how insanely incompatible he and Carrie truly were, but he kept pushing things so hard to the point where he pushed her away!

In a way, it reminded me of how she acted the exact same way with Big, only the roles were reversed. Very interesting how she ended up cheating on him with Big.

Anyway, he deserved someone completely different than Carrie, and I'm glad that eventually happened. Although his appearance in the second movie really bugged me and didn't seem to fit with his character at all---but did *anything* from that lousy movie fit with their original characters??

Who was that guy who Samantha went so ga-ga for? Richard??

Yeah, I liked those two together---he was her ultimate challenge and I think she loved their constant drama and sexual warfare. Even though he was a "dirty bastard."

[Hanahope]

The thing is, he tried so hard to make Carrie into something she wasn't, which is when I knew their relationship was doomed: he tried to get her to quit smoking, tried to turn her "bonified city girl" self into an outdoorsy gal, and hoped that one day she'd settle down into quiet domesticity as a wife and mother with him.

 

Oh my gosh, that one episode where they went to upstate NY in the cabin and Carrie kept screeching (which was the worst sound I ever heard) every time she saw a squirrel.  Don't they have squirrels in Central Park?  I just couldn't believe she went all psycho over a stupid squirrel.

[Bella]

Had she not already lost me long before then, Carrie would have lost me then. Aiden was better off without her, and I never understood why he didn't understand that. They were a complete mismatch! (YMMV)

[Inquisitionist]

he the tried so hard to make Carrie into something she wasn't:  ... he tried to get her to quit smoking

 

Carrie lied to Aidan on the day they met about the extent of her smoking.  He was quite clear that he couldn't date a smoker (it was always a deal-breaker for me, too); Carrie made it sound like she only smoked a little and could stop any time she wanted.  She later indicated she was serious about quitting, and Aidan supported her in that effort. 

 

he tried to turn her "bonified city girl" self into an outdoorsy gal

 

I thought he simply wanted her to experience some of the activities he enjoyed, just as he tried out things she enjoyed.  But I'll admit, I thought the writing throughout this sequence was pretty contrived.  And frankly, I never understood why Aidan would think Carrie was a good long-term prospect.

[spaceytraci1208]

Oh my gosh, that one episode where they went to upstate NY in the cabin and Carrie kept screeching (which was the worst sound I ever heard) every time she saw a squirrel. Don't they have squirrels in Central Park? I just couldn't believe she went all psycho over a stupid squirrel.

That episode probably sealed my dislike for Carrie. I understand she wasn't into the outdoors...but to have the audacity to invite your other boyfriend to join you?! He should've dropped her disrespectful ass right there

[Mozelle]

That damn squirrel was on the windowsill, practically making itself breakfast! It's one thing to see a squirrel some yards off scampering up a tree. It's quite another to see it up close and personal.

I don't do that squirrel shit, so I got the freak out. I always roll my eyes when I see people trying to get up close and personal with a squirrel. It's not a pet, people! It's a wild rodent!

Edited July 24, 2014 by Mozelle