S05.E07: Treasons, Stratagems & Spoils

[Dee]

Quote

In an effort to bridge the gap between Lyon Family Management and Empire, Lucious must play nice with Jeff Kingsley, so that the two companies can get girl group TBD back on the map. Meanwhile, Jamal grows frustrated with Cookie when she tries to steal his London artist, Wynter, out from under him, Andre works with the mother of one of his old inmates to help free her innocent son and Cookie realizes her sister is in danger.

[Empress1]

It took me a while to figure out who is playing Franklin, Vivica Fox's son. It's Damon Gillespie, who was on the short-lived show Rise. That was a horrible scene.

I like Joss Stone's voice, always have.

Well, I said I hoped Andre didn't sleep with the kid's mom, but deep down I knew he would.

[SimoneS]

Yep, @missbonnie nailed it. Kingsley is Lucious' son. He probably the person in the casket. He dies just as he and Lucious resolve their differences.

[Dee]

That was CRAZY good.

Andre has competition in the Evil Son category, Franklin morphed into The Incredible Hulk & Hakeem has finally matured.

[wanderingstar]

Whoa - this episode really did have a little of everything, but it was hard to watch. 

They really misdirected and had me thinking Candace's husband was the one beating her, but no, it was her son, Franklin. What a horrific scene that was. Felt terrible for everyone. Cookie had a horrible choice to make.

So, Kingsley is Lucious' long lost son. It's gonna be so messy when everyone finds out.

Glad Jamal stood up for himself with Cookie.

Andre sleeping with Quincy's mom - knew that was coming. And he paid that dude to take the fall, so Quincy could get out. How long before that house of cards falls down.

[SimoneS]

Does Kai still think that he and Jamal will be returning to London? Because that isn't happening and if they are going to make their relationship work, he is going to have to find a way to deal with Cookie's presence in Jamal's life. There is no getting away from her.

[Empress1]

3 minutes ago, Gillian Rosh said:

Whoa - this episode really did have a little of everything, but it was hard to watch. 

They really misdirected and had me thinking Candace's husband was the one beating her, but no, it was her son, Franklin. What a horrific scene that was. Felt terrible for everyone. Cookie had a horrible choice to make.

So, Kingsley is Lucious' long lost son. It's gonna be so messy when everyone finds out.

Glad Jamal stood up for himself with Cookie.

Andre sleeping with Quincy's mom - knew that was coming. And he paid that dude to take the fall, so Quincy could get out. How long before that house of cards falls down.

Andre owes a couple of prisoners favors. I assume we'll see them come to collect at some point.

[Dramafan15]

This episode definitely lived up to the hype that the promo’s were making.

I began suspecting that Jeff was Lucious’s son for a few episodes, so I’m glad to see that my and others theory came true. The only problem I have is that this leaves the possibility of Kingsley being the one in the casket. At this point, it’s to obvious. 

I would be happy about Quincy getting out, but we all know that it’s not gonna be that easy. Some craps is gonna pop up during or afterwards. 

I would also be happy about Hakeem finally maturing, but the Blake rivalry is still in the upcoming episode descriptions. I hate what they did to Blake’s character. He saved Hakeem and Tiana from death.... why would you ruin all that? 

Jamal’s storyline has been really chill this season, and I hope it stays that way. 

Not gonna lie, I was a little bit scared when Cookie and Carol walked in on Franklin beating Candice. That was the best scene of the shows history. Judging by the promo, I’m just gonna guess that Candice tells Lucious about Cookies secret loft. She seems like she’s gonna be out for revenge. Hopefully she sees the light before she goes to far. Your son was going to kill you and your sisters. What else was there to be done? 

It was nice to get the one second mention of Diana Dubois. Hopefully she makes an appearance again. They kinda just dropped that. 

Edited November 15, 2018 by Dramafan15

[Neurochick]

Maybe we’ll get lucky and Diana DuBois will get shanked in prison.

[Athena5217]

I don’t know how to feel about this episode. In one scene, Franklin  was channeling Jack Nicholson in The Shining. In another scene, Cookie was wearing a tank top that looks like when bad craft projects happen to good people. Both scenes were very scary, but I think I was more disturbed by the tank top.

[missbonnie]

3 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Yep, @missbonnie nailed it. Kingsley is Lucious' son. He probably the person in the casket. He dies just as he and Lucious resolve their differences.

Right?? They did that reveal and I was over here going, YAS, I got it! Another good episode and I totally didn't expect it to be Cookie's nephew who was beating the hell out of his mom. 

[Chairperson Meow]

How old is Kingsley?  In the pic of Young Lucious and Kingsley's mom, it looked like they were together pre-Cookie and Lucious- which makes him older than Andre.  But Kingsley looks younger than Jamal, but older than Hakeem.   

[Dee]

That very subject is supposed to come up in future episodes.

[UNOSEZ]

After the 2nd episode I started thinking that Jeff was a Lyon... Haven't watched the episode.. But glad my hunch was right.. I'll let a few more episodes go by then  binge

[Neurochick]

I had a feeling Kingsley was Lucious' son because he kind of looked like a younger version of Terrance Howard.

But Kingsley is an ass, if you kill your father, YOU have part of your father inside you, so basically he should just kill himself too.

The ending was very powerful IMO, sad but very, very true, especially in these times.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Neurochick

[tennisgurl]

I suspected that Kingsley might be Lucious' son, because he looked quite a bit like Terrance Howard, especially around the face, but I still let out a good old fashioned soap opera GASP when it was revealed who he was. So Kingsley is actually the long lost Lyon and has concocted a Count of Monte Cristo style revenge scheme to ruin Lucious' family and business. Maybe his mother was a drug addict, and he left her to her addiction, and she ended up in a coma? Thats some grade A soap opera stuff. 

Joss Stone sounds great, I like her already, even if this does create some drama between Cookie and Jamal. Cookie means well, but she really can sort of just railroad over things, especially with her sons, in a very intense "mother knows best" kind of way. 

I did not see the twist with Franklin happening, I really thought it was the ex husband. What a messed up situation, clearly Franklin needs help, more than his mother can give him, but I can see why she was so scared of having the cops come. But, at that point, what other options did she have? No easy answers. 

[Vixenstud]

18 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Maybe his mother was a drug addict, and he left her to her addiction, and she ended up in a coma?

Twas thankin' the very same thing.

LOVED Candace's house, my favorite kind....I love big, airy Victorian houses.  Anywho, I'm thinking maybe Franklin was so angry at his parent's divorce that he was taking it out on Candace.  

Cookie was annoying with trying to take Joss Stone from Jamal; woman, cut the cord, he's a grown-assed man and can take care of himself!

On 11/14/2018 at 9:26 PM, Gillian Rosh said:

Andre sleeping with Quincy's mom - knew that was coming.

Was just a matter of time, I saw that too.

[Angeleyes]

4 hours ago, Vixenstud said:

Twas thankin' the very same thing.

LOVED Candace's house, my favorite kind....I love big, airy Victorian houses.  Anywho, I'm thinking maybe Franklin was so angry at his parent's divorce that he was taking it out on Candace.  

 

I was thinking maybe it might be the other way around. Maybe Candace’s husband got tired of the constant cycle of Franklin not addressing his mental(or other) issues and Candace refusing to see that her son needs help and making excuses for him. Hopefully, they’ll fill in more of the backstory with the divorce and Franklin’s issues (whatever they are) soon. 

[chocolatine]

I did not see the Franklin twist coming - that was so scary to watch! My original theory was that Candice got into kink/S&M - hence the bruises - and was divorcing her husband because he wasn't into it and she wanted to be free to explore. So much for that.

Is there any woman who doesn't throw herself at Andre after interacting with him for a short amount of time? Such a cliche.

The Kingsley reveal was predictable. Ever since the show started, I knew there was no way Lucious didn't father more children with other women. I'd just thought it would have happened while Cookie was in prison, not before they met.

Joss Stone is a huge improvement over Rumor Willis.

[crowceilidh]

Quote

Joss Stone is a huge improvement over Rumor Willis.

I just wish she wasn't clearly a 1-for-1 substitute.  Seems like lazy writing and characterization.

[Racj82]

1 hour ago, crowceilidh said:

I just wish she wasn't clearly a 1-for-1 substitute.  Seems like lazy writing and characterization.

Well, other than both being white women, they aren't the same. Singing styles, clothing, personality are not the same. 

[crowceilidh]

No, but where she appears to slot into his life is very similar.  Her music and clothes and appearance are generally the same, just not specifically the same.  Her social dominance of Jamal is super similar as is her stone-y entrance with the "snow".  Her affect (the psych term) is, at this time, to my eyes, identical.  I look forward to seeing some huge difference in their psychological connection because, presumably, Winter is not a recovering addict (remains to be seen what her addictions are ).

Edited November 17, 2018 by crowceilidh

[Kaiju Ballet]

18 hours ago, chocolatine said:

I did not see the Franklin twist coming - that was so scary to watch! My original theory was that Candice got into kink/S&M - hence the bruises - and was divorcing her husband because he wasn't into it and she wanted to be free to explore. So much for that.

I had that theory too, since one of the marks resembled a bruise from a cuff.

But that scene was super scary, and very well done. My thought too when Cookie called was, OMG I hope they get help in time and not the implications of calling the cops on a POC in a domestic violence case.  Between that twist (that it's Franklin) and Jamal being engaged to someone who's positive, I am really appreciative of where Empire is making some noise.

That being said, is Tiana now Bella's main caregiver? It just struck me as weird that Hakeem was all grateful that Tiana asked him to watch her for the weekend. Are the Lyons so publicly broke that there's no fear of Bella being kidnapped? I mean, it's not like it's happened before/sarcasm.

True confession time -- I have been playing "One More Minute" on repeat. And I loved how Lucious included Andre in talking about how proud he is of his sons.

[Happytobehere]

14 hours ago, crowceilidh said:

I just wish she wasn't clearly a 1-for-1 substitute.  Seems like lazy writing and characterization.

Well, Lee needs to have a white woman to prop at all times. Remember, he created Star as a love lettter to them because the world is just so hard on them and their alabaster glory.

[crowceilidh]

I watch Star, although I'm not sure why.  I know nothing concrete about Lee Daniels, but suspect that Star is more about showing that the issue about needing fame (and all the other needs and wants and actions and reactions of the characters) is related to socioeconomic class as well rather than  just skin colour.  But that's just a thing that popped into my head at your comment, so I'm willing to be corrected.  And, still, he didn't have to make Star the main character...

Edited November 18, 2018 by crowceilidh

[Dee]

He may want Star to be the main character, but the show itself functions much better as an ensemble imo.

[SimoneS]

On 11/16/2018 at 11:42 PM, chocolatine said:

Is there any woman who doesn't throw herself at Andre after interacting with him for a short amount of time? Such a cliche.

True, but realistic. The man is hot and sexy as hell. Not many women could resist hitting that.

[jhlipton]

On 11/14/2018 at 6:33 PM, Dramafan15 said:

1) The only problem I have is that this leaves the possibility of Kingsley being the one in the casket. At this point, it’s to obvious. 

2) I would be happy about Quincy getting out, but we all know that it’s not gonna be that easy. Some craps is gonna pop up during or afterwards. 

1) Yep.  As soon as they made the reveal, I knew who was in the casket.

2) As long as they don't pull a Nate Sr (HTGAWM) on Quincy, I'm good.  Luckily, neither Kingsley or Diana are Governor of New York.

On 11/14/2018 at 8:57 PM, Athena5217 said:

I don’t know how to feel about this episode. In one scene, Franklin  was channeling Jack Nicholson in The Shining. In another scene, Cookie was wearing a tank top that looks like when bad craft projects happen to good people. Both scenes were very scary, but I think I was more disturbed by the tank top.

The top with the cards on it?  Yeah, that was pretty ghastly.  The cards needed to be at most 75% that size.

On 11/15/2018 at 12:35 PM, tennisgurl said:

Maybe his mother was a drug addict, and he left her to her addiction, and she ended up in a coma?

From his questions, I think Kingsley's mom got hooked on the drugs Lucious was dealing.  (And I'm sorry but "Times were tough -- I have no regrets" about pushing poison on his community was a pretty shitty answer.

On 11/18/2018 at 3:38 AM, Happytobehere said:

Well, Lee needs to have a white woman to prop at all times. Remember, he created Star as a love lettter to them because the world is just so hard on them and their alabaster glory.

BURRRRRRRNNNNN!  (And you're right!)

[Dee]

I love that Lucious & Cookie remain unapologetic about their past.

Their methods weren't perfect, but in certain cases the ends justify the means.

[Lovecat]

On 11/15/2018 at 11:56 AM, Neurochick said:

I had a feeling Kingsley was Lucious' son because he kind of looked like a younger version of Terrance Howard.

And all I can see is Big-era Tom Hanks, LOL!!

[mtlchick]

Flip Flop, Flip Flippity Flop.... I actually said "How dare him to hilariously point out how awesomely bad Drip Drop is!" (I cannot lie; Drip Drop is my guilty pleasure track from this show.)