S04.E10: Sporemageddon

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Its season finale time. 

Air date:  9-21-18

Quote

Aneela brings the Jaqobis brothers into Greenspace to defeat the Lady.

Edited September 21, 2018 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[sjohnson]

Armageddon is supposed to be the final battle. Whatever will they do for the final season?

[Loandbehold]

1 hour ago, sjohnson said:

Armageddon is supposed to be the final battle. Whatever will they do for the final season?

If I've learned nothing else from Buffy and Xena, it's that apocalypses are a dime-a-dozen.

[ramble]

Papa... *sniffle* Johnny Favorite is my favorite.  There was a lot to process in this episode and I haven’t processed it all yet. HJK is beautiful in every incarnation. I missed Lucy. 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Well, can't believe I'm gonna say this, but the B plot was almost more interesting than the A plot in this one.  The Lady is out, or at least is still around.  Never woulda saw that coming in a million years.[/touch of sarcasm]

And I have to confess to being a bit lost.  After listening to her go on about the Green's ability to harness memories and her being the last of her kind, Aneela realized out loud that The Lady was just a memory.  How can 'just a memory' escape the Green and wreak havoc out in the "real world"?  Or is it similar to Aneela making Dutch, only The Lady will be 'wearing' an Aneela body??  I'm kinda confused, so I'll just roll with it.

The other question is, was that ending supposed to have meant that everyone was living in the new!world, or just Dutch?  Going by the little 20-30 second preview for next season they showed just before the credits, it seemed to imply its just Dutch, but I honestly have no clue.  A world in which she's married to Johnny (as Yala), she owns the Royale, and D'avin & everyone else don't know each other, aside from Gared knowing Johnny.  [where were Pree, Fancy & Zeph in this new 'world'?]

I'm guessing it'll turn out that Aneela isn't dead, maybe just trapped.  Or is it her body that grabbed Dutch's arm, and The Lady is inhabiting her?  If she was trapped when the Green was terminated, I'm betting they'll be able to turn the Green back on long enough to get her out, before tossing The Lady back in, and then killing the Green permanently.  Which, btw, brings me to;  was that the real spore that Dutch used?  And if so, how - are they implying that the Green can turn any memory real??   The real one [Dutch got from 'mom'] was supposedly sitting on a desktop on the Armada bridge, within Turin's arm reach.  Or did they make a fake to get Turin to trust them???   Ugh, I love this show, but sometimes it makes my head hurt.

It was amazing to see they got Sarah Power back for a bit, to film that scene with AA.  I thought we'd just see the bit about DSK stabbing her replayed, which we did, and that would be it.

So, unless its supposed to be a longer storyline to be played out next season, we never did get any kind of resolution to the whole "thief who will save us all" premise they gave us.  Which is a bummer (for right now, at least, if its coming next year).

I complained about it in last year's finale thread, and I'll do it here again... what was the point of the Hackmods & their Hullen versions to start last season with?  Just to give Johnny something to do while being separated from Lucy & TAF??  That was a lot of potential just dropped like a hot potato.

Edited September 22, 2018 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[tennisgurl]

Alright, who’s Dutch/Johnny fanfic somehow ended up in the script pile? Oh, it might have been mine...

[thuganomics85]

Team Killjoys made some rookie mistakes here, honestly.  Because a) if you know that your opponent can change their appearance, it is probably wise to ask a few questions to make sure that what you think is you're clone sister (?) isn't actually your clone mother (again, ?) who is bent on world domination, in disguise and b) if you've saved a whole bunch of children from a creepy, mindless cult who likes their creepy experiments, it would be wise to test them for diseases first, before sending them back home.

So, the main gist I got is that The Lady has now crossed over into the world disguised as Aneela, and she has created some form of reality where Dutch and John are married, Turin's homeless (damn, what's her beef with him?!), and D'Avin is still a Killjoy, whose next target is Jaq.  I wonder what has happened to everyone else!

Also, it seems like Zeph's cure for the disease is causing everyone to loose their memories, so now Pree doesn't know who Gared is (sniff!), and it looked like even Zeph herself seem to be forgetting things.  Uh oh!

Cool that they brought back Pawter in John's Green Goo visions/nightmares.  It makes sense that it would still haunt him.  And it once again reminds me that as entertaining as she is, Delle Seyah really is not a nice person, to put it mildly.  Also found it interesting that D'Avin's worst memory was the time he beat up Dutch without being fully in control (my memory is fuzzy over how it happened, but I remember he wasn't himself.)

Not enough Lucy, but I did love her getting onto Aneela for throwing stuff in her cargo bay.  Lucy ain't going to put up with that shit!

No sighting of Fancy, so I certainly hope he isn't still just lying in the middle of the street!

Bummed that we will have to wait another year to wrap this all up, but at least they are aware that it will be the final season, and will hopefully give it a solid wrap-up.  But it was another fun one for me!

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

20 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Cool that they brought back Pawter in John's Green Goo visions/nightmares.  It makes sense that it would still haunt him.  And it once again reminds me that as entertaining as she is, Delle Seyah really is not a nice person, to put it mildly.  Also found it interesting that D'Avin's worst memory was the time he beat up Dutch without being fully in control (my memory is fuzzy over how it happened, but I remember he wasn't himself.)

Yeah.  I'd think stabbing your brother and almost killing him would have been the worst half of that memory, but they couldn't get in the scheduled bit of D/D using that section of what happened that day-night aboard Lucy.

[sjohnson]

They've killed the green threel times now. The first time they poisoned the original tree. Then they decided there were multiple roots or whatever they were called to undo it, and they had just killed the local version. Then they froze the green. Then they scavenged green from Hullen. Now they've bioweaponed it. Three time's the charm. The green should be gone and Aneela should be dead.

I think the Lady needs Jaq because Jaq is the first host for the green who was born and can reproduce new vessels for the Lady's memories she carried from the Green. I think the thing is supposed to be that unlike the Hullen parasites, these memories won't be parasitic, and therefore can't be ejected. 

Zeph didn't take the antidote, therefore she isn't a blank slate. 

[Chick2Chic]

6 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Team Killjoys made some rookie mistakes here, honestly.  Because a) if you know that your opponent can change their appearance, it is probably wise to ask a few questions to make sure that what you think is you're clone sister (?) isn't actually your clone mother (again, ?) who is bent on world domination, in disguise and b) if you've saved a whole bunch of children from a creepy, mindless cult who likes their creepy experiments, it would be wise to test them for diseases first, before sending them back home.

So, the main gist I got is that The Lady has now crossed over into the world disguised as Aneela, and she has created some form of reality where Dutch and John are married, Turin's homeless (damn, what's her beef with him?!), and D'Avin is still a Killjoy, whose next target is Jaq.  I wonder what has happened to everyone else!

<snip>

Cool that they brought back Pawter in John's Green Goo visions/nightmares.  It makes sense that it would still haunt him.  And it once again reminds me that as entertaining as she is, Delle Seyah really is not a nice person, to put it mildly.  Also found it interesting that D'Avin's worst memory was the time he beat up Dutch without being fully in control (my memory is fuzzy over how it happened, but I remember he wasn't himself.)

<snip>

Bummed that we will have to wait another year to wrap this all up, but at least they are aware that it will be the final season, and will hopefully give it a solid wrap-up.  But it was another fun one for me!

I am not surprised by Johnny or D'avin's worst memories. As Dutch stated to Jaq, D'av is essentially a marshmallow so for him, having the feelings he does for Dutch then being stripped of the ability to control his own person then beating the shit out of her to try to kill her has to haunt him and left him with lingering feelings about what happened. It was just like me not being surprised by Johnny's worst moment being losing Pawter to Delle Seyah's viciousness. Both brothers were left with lots of guilt about the respective women they are/were in love with... Johnny not being able to save Pawter and D'avin under mind control trying to kill Dutch. D'avin & Dutch were able to mostly move past what happened in time - obviously since they are dating and in love and not running away from either now per Dutch - but for marshmallow D'avin, it seems a lot of guilt remains over it despite it not being something he should be faulted for since he wasn't in control of himself. I felt for Johnny seeing Pawter cause he really loved Pawter and as he said last ep, he wants a partner to love like Dutch and D'avin have each other. I think in some ways seeing Pawter again was worse since reality means losing her all over again to Johnny.

I will have to watch the finale ep again. It was busy.

S5 should be interesting. Everyone is living a lie created by the lady and the writers have crafted a Monkey's Paw in some of the lady's grand delusion. She has taken away everyone's will to create a false scenario where people are living lives that are lies and they have not willingly chosen. It is telling. She ripped them away from what they have and wanted & instead given them a Twilight Zone. As stated above, the lady violated them but I think some things of their real persons will slip out and start to cause issues (I didn't miss that look D'av and Dutch gave each other when she brought out Johnny's lunch). 

S4 was quite a ride and I enjoyed it.

[MissLucas]

That was trippy. As usual for most of the time I had no idea what's going on and the explanations about the Lady and the Green made the sound of all the hands in the writers room waving. But it was still fun - so there's that. 

Pawter! So glad we got her back for a moment plus the reminder that Johnny is still not over her death AND that DSK is a massive b*tch - speaking of b*tches: the Nine still suck. Poo face and Johnny Favorite brought some desperately needed humor.

My favorite scene was Aneela and Zeph dealing with the outbreak of testosterone poisoning around them by talking science, he!

[meira.hand]

11 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

Well, can't believe I'm gonna say this, but the B plot was almost more interesting than the A plot in this one.

I feel the same. The "no rules apply" of the green world makes such a mess of who is who and where are we at any moment that it looses not only its connection to reality but also to any real feeling. Its almost impossible to to get a sense of the lady character when it has no origin face but just switches between other character faces. I also get really really tired of the monochromatic green haze it is filtered thru.

[tessaray]

38 minutes ago, meira.hand said:

I feel the same. The "no rules apply" of the green world makes such a mess of who is who and where are we at any moment that it looses not only its connection to reality but also to any real feeling. Its almost impossible to to get a sense of the lady character when it has no origin face but just switches between other character faces. I also get really really tired of the monochromatic green haze it is filtered thru.

I don't mind the green filter because we desperately need some visual clues as to where we are at any given moment but The Lady doesn't feel real to me without a face and the body switching is just confusing and starting to feel tedious. I'm reduced to mentally superimposing Diana Rigg on the characters when they are channeling her.  (Old, imperious, evil - any better actor suggestions for who could play her?)

I need to watch the episode again, to sort out the various storylines but the memory loss was an interesting twist. It made me think that whoever wrote it has experience with dementia, because there is real horror in the knowledge that science can cure the physical body but can do nothing to stop the loss of memories.  

[Chick2Chic]

The Killjoys showrunner 

[MissLucas]

Too bad I'm not on Twitter. I would have replied 'Where's Alvin???'

[Loandbehold]

I was glad to see Pawter, even if she was Lady!Pawter. 

I wasn't happy w/ The Nine Rep. Gee, there's a viral outbreak on a poor planet. Whatever should we do? Nuke it. After all, just quarantining the planet while people work on the cure is just, so, ... so? I mean, really. What was the point of that? We know The Nine are bastards. We've seen it for four seasons. DSK is an awesome evil bitch character b/c she also has been fleshed out. This jerk means nothing to me. I was hoping Turin would just shoot him then turn to the next in line and ask if they would assist in providing supplies for Zeph. 

Speaking of Zeph, watching first Pree, then the mother, and then Zeph lose their memories was heartbreaking. AS @tessaray said, it's a really good depiction of what dementia looks like from the outside. The thing I question is that very soon after Zeph tells Pree he's getting better, he loses his memory. Then the urchin's mother loses hers. When was she given the cure? Did Zeph start inoculating people before she was sure that it was working? 

Now that we're in the Lady's AU, does that mean when her spell is broken that things will go back to what they were before TAF entered the green? Or to sometime before that? Does it mean that Pip may be brought back? And, if so, will he be Zeph's Pip or pre-Zeph Pip? And, if we go back far enough, and depending on actor availability, may it turn out that Pawter will be alive? 

Looking forward to next season. 

[marinw]

18 hours ago, Loandbehold said:

Gee, there's a viral outbreak on a poor planet. Whatever should we do? Nuke it.

Dude seemed a little too eager to fire the nukes.

Edited September 23, 2018 by marinw

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

My only thing about the ending is why erase everyone's memories and separate everyone, except Dutch & Johnny?  The Lady does know they share a really strong bond - no matter what kind it is - right??  Why have them be married, where they'll be in near constant contact and will be able to puzzle it out together when the clues that they're living in an AU start rolling in???

Maybe her amazingly brilliant plan will be made more obvious soon after the start of next season, but right now, this seems very foolish on her part.

Edited September 23, 2018 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[snowwhyte]

So was the little girl at the end meant to be the lady's current form? She looked familiar to me. Has she been in this before?

[marinw]

7 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

Why have them be married, where they'll be in near constant contact and will be able to puzzle it out together when the clues that they're living in an AU start rolling in???

 I did groan at the end. The “reset” troupe in getting a little overdone on TV. It feels like a easy way out for the writers. Unless it is really well done, like in The Good Place. 

[Shenanigan]

Quote

My only thing about the ending is why erase everyone's memories and separate everyone, except Dutch & Johnny?  The Lady does know they share a really strong bond - no matter what kind it is - right?? 

I found this really interesting as well. Was she trying to do them a kindness? Especially Johnny, since she made such a big point of knowing how lonely he is? And is she having D'Avin look for Jaq because she can't find him? Does that mean her reach only extends to Westerley? Because if it extended everywhere, she'd know where he was, right? Even if she couldn't find Jaq himself because his brain is a special snowflake, she'd be able to access Delle Seyah's memories. 

[MissLucas]

3 hours ago, snowwhyte said:

So was the little girl at the end meant to be the lady's current form? She looked familiar to me. Has she been in this before?

I think she's the Lady's current form but I wouldn't bet any money on that. It felt like the writers were just having fun with the creepy child trope.

[tennisgurl]

I am so ready for next season, how am I supposed to wait until 2019?!?! 

Pawter! Oh man, that was brutal, for the audience AND for poor Johnny. "Dont let me turn around." That one really hurt. And that D/D fight really hurt. I know that it wasn't really D'Avins fault, and Dutch has long since forgiven him, its still an awful memory of both of them. I honestly still dont totally know how the green works, but I dont really mind. It works well enough, and I think I get it enough. It makes sense that The Lady can mess with memories, so when she gets out, she can mess with peoples memories on a massive scale. 

The mother, Pree, and Zeph all losing their memories was heartbreaking! This shit better get settled next season, hopefully when the Lady gets defeated! Poor Gared, he was so sweet trying to take care of his hubbie, and he looked so horrified when he realized he forgot about him. The scene between Pree and Zeph before that about Pip was really good. I know I harp on this a lot, but I do love how much time and effort is put into building up the supporting characters and their relationships to each other. 

Lucy being sassy with Aneela was hilarious. You know, they shouldn't be that surprised that Aneela would be an unpredictable ally that could screw them over. She is all kinds of crazy, and susceptible to people making promises to her that sound good at the time. 

Man, The Last must really hate Turin, if she made him have that horrible hair in the Green AU. I think there is a lot left here that that is unexplained, with The Lady, the Green, how Johnny fits in, that is going to be dealt with next year. I dont think its a coincidence that Johnny is the one who is supposed to save Dutch, and they are now a married couple in the AU. Also, I know I always wanted D/J to end up together, but this isnt what I imagined! Still, my shipper heart made a happy leap at them waking up together. Let me have this! 

This was a great season, I cant wait to see what happens next! 

[tessaray]

The Lady may know how to tempt people, making a reality from the feelings and memories she sees in their minds but she hasn't really reckoned with Johnny.  When he was Hullen he still retained pieces of his humanity, in this episode he walked away from the Pawter illusion and I have no doubt that when he has to make a choice between his fantasy with Dutch and what is real and true, he's going to do the right thing. That may be just enough of an edge for the thief to save them all.  

[MissLucas]

2 hours ago, tessaray said:

The Lady may know how to tempt people, making a reality from the feelings and memories she sees in their minds but she hasn't really reckoned with Johnny.  When he was Hullen he still retained pieces of his humanity, in this episode he walked away from the Pawter illusion and I have no doubt that when he has to make a choice between his fantasy with Dutch and what is real and true, he's going to do the right thing. That may be just enough of an edge for the thief to save them all.  

I guess that's how it will all play out - reminds me of SPN's 'What Is And What Never Should Be' - one of the show's strongest episodes. It's a sci-fi/fantasy staple but if done well always very powerful.

[statsgirl]

15 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

My only thing about the ending is why erase everyone's memories and separate everyone, except Dutch & Johnny?  The Lady does know they share a really strong bond - no matter what kind it is - right??  Why have them be married, where they'll be in near constant contact and will be able to puzzle it out together when the clues that they're living in an AU start rolling in???

For the shippers. ;-)

And D'avin is a killjoy hunting Jaq because he has he best chance of finding him.

Do we know why the Lady wants Jaq?  And if Jaq is some special blend of human and Hullen, will he somehow be essential in taking down the Lady next season?

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

7 hours ago, tessaray said:

The Lady may know how to tempt people, making a reality from the feelings and memories she sees in their minds but she hasn't really reckoned with Johnny.  When he was Hullen he still retained pieces of his humanity, in this episode he walked away from the Pawter illusion and I have no doubt that when he has to make a choice between his fantasy with Dutch and what is real and true, he's going to do the right thing. That may be just enough of an edge for the thief to save them all.  

While I totally agree this seems like the viable route the writing & direction is most likely going, it has the potential to be the absolute ultimate heartbreak for John.

Not necessarily that its Dutch herself, but to have a (married) life with someone he loves and having that stability & comfort zone, while being lucky enough to share it with someone he's very close to.  Then having to make the choice to sacrifice his happiness to save everyone, especially if they play it out as John looks at the AU and gets to wishing he and Dutch had been more than BFFs.

Ugh.  This is setting up to make the John/TL!Pawter scenes in this episode look like a walk in the park.

[tennisgurl]

43 minutes ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

Ugh.  This is setting up to make the John/TL!Pawter scenes in this episode look like a walk in the park.

Especially as Johnny just admitted to Lucy that he felt lonely and like a third wheel now that Dutch and D'avin are kind of a thing again. You can debate whether his feelings for Dutch are platonic or romantic, but if they do get together, the dynamic between them will change, and coming off the death of Pawter, he could end up having to say goodbye to a happy, stable life with someone he loves to be alone again. That just sounds...painful.

[Triskan]

Until the very end, I was convinced this was the series finale...

And I found it ballsy to end the series on such a note... but apparently, there will be another season, so looking forward to see how it will all end ! 

[lynny]

So, I just had a thought about The Lady and Aneela and the ending there. I kind of thought that The Lady was "inside" that little girl at the end . But then I got to thinking: What if The Lady is actually in Dutch? As in that's not Dutch that we saw at the end - it was The Lady disguised as Aneela. She was right behind them exiting the green and I assume she got out in her Aneela disguise. Then, she tosses real Dutch in a prison ship and sets herself up as Yalena with Johnny.

[theschnauzers]

20 hours ago, Triskan said:

Until the very end, I was convinced this was the series finale...

And I found it ballsy to end the series on such a note... but apparently, there will be another season, so looking forward to see how it will all end ! 

I think it’s fair to point out that the show knew season five would be the endpoint when season four was in preproduction. And much of this season can now be seen as setting up season five from the git go.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

5 hours ago, lynny said:

So, I just had a thought about The Lady and Aneela and the ending there. I kind of thought that The Lady was "inside" that little girl at the end . But then I got to thinking: What if The Lady is actually in Dutch? As in that's not Dutch that we saw at the end - it was The Lady disguised as Aneela. She was right behind them exiting the green and I assume she got out in her Aneela disguise. Then, she tosses real Dutch in a prison ship and sets herself up as Yalena with Johnny.

Interesting spec. 

Up until about 10 months from now, anything's possible.

[Catfi9ht]

On 9/23/2018 at 8:03 AM, marinw said:

 I did groan at the end. The “reset” troupe in getting a little overdone on TV. It feels like a easy way out for the writers. Unless it is really well done, like in The Good Place. 

THIS plus The Lady as the creepy child trope was a terrible letdown. I could have lived with the memory reset without Yelena/Johnny and the creepy kid. It would have been a decent setup for next year without resorting to such tactics. Please don't have next season's theme be a showdown of the kids, The Lady (evil) vs Jaq (good); I will tune out.

However, this season was so much better than last year. It truly went back to the beginning of the show and revisited the best parts of what made the show good. I don't think the new kid/Jaq character was as terrible as it has turned into on other shows.

The show created a great, unique universe that is enjoyable to visit. Overall, I really enjoy this show and the writing is good moment to moment, but the overarching episodic story lines are kind of a mess and overly complex.

[The Companion]

I love this show (and finally caught up after some frustrating technical difficulties, so I don't have to wait as long . . .yay?). The two plotlines didn't really meld together for me. I get that they kinda had to run concurrently but I found the transition between them rough at times. Something about the editing, I think. That being said, both came together in a interesting, if a bit predictable way. 

The virus: I was yelling "don't kill Pree," so I am glad that didn't happen. The memory loss was really sad. I understood the last scene with Zeph to mean that the virus was the cause of the memory loss. It attacked their ability to remember. This explains why she lost her memory and why others who we didn't see get the cure were losing theirs. The fight in the green meant the lady could escape, but the infected were the ones "waiting" for her. 

The green: the story got a little muddled, I thought. Like could they be injured in the green? I thought the painful memories were obvious and a bit sweet (the Jacobis and the women they love). HJK is incredible, particularly when switching between Dutch and Aneela, but I thought the best moment was when she processed where D'avin was. An initial memory of the pain and withdrawal followed by a realization that it meant that was the most painful thing the Lady could drum up. I enjoyed that they used the green to feature several characters who would otherwise not be shown. 

The reset: I don't love Johnny and Dutch together because I love that they have this close friendship. But fine, many shippers, enjoy. :) I know we need an overarching storyline next season, but I almost wish we could just do fun and silly one off episodes with the gang, because I will miss that the most. Interesting that everyone is thrown together as they are. Assuming the virus did that, I wonder why the Lady wouldn't put them in totally different areas. It does tell us it spread. 

Zeph: her grief and the fact that she was working through it didn't not remind me of myself. Thought she did a fantastic job of cycling through several emotions that go along with loss. 

Other thoughts: I can't believe I am actually going to miss Aneela if she doesn't come back. Despite being creepy as hell with her sing song voice and murderous tendencies, she reads as so very broken and I am shocked to be rooting for some sort of ending where she finds her mom and DSK again. I am shocked to miss a child on a science fiction show, but I hope they give Jaq some time next year. I am not sure how I feel about working through a reset next year. I love these characters together and resetting them takes away from getting to watch the team as the team. I hope it doesn't go on too long. I would love a happy ending and that may take some work. Knowing that this is the final season, there is a good chance they can wrap it up in a satisfactory way.