Spoiler Discussion Thread: The Sequel

[Mary0360]

The thing about the whole snatched from birth explanation is ok that explains the flash forwards (kind of because it still doesn't explain why any of the characters including potentially Felicity have openly thought maybe she is the daughter that was snatched from birth) yay.

But we still have one season maybe another 1,2,3 after that to go with the show and for Mia's age to fit that means Olicity would have to be pregnant around now. Which means we would have to watch Olicity have and lose their baby in the present. And then what? The rest of the series is either them being totally depressed over their lost child and doing nothing about rescuing her? Or them carrying on with their lives and doing nothing about rescuing her?  Neither option makes for pleasant television watching.

[Mellowyellow]

2 minutes ago, Mary0360 said:

The thing about the whole snatched from birth explanation is ok that explains the flash forwards (kind of because it still doesn't explain why any of the characters including potentially Felicity have openly thought maybe she is the daughter that was snatched from birth) yay.

But we still have one season maybe another 1,2,3 after that to go with the show and for Mia's age to fit that means Olicity would have to be pregnant around now. Which means we would have to watch Olicity have and lose their baby in the present. And then what? The rest of the series is either them being totally depressed over their lost child and doing nothing about rescuing her? Or them carrying on with their lives and doing nothing about rescuing her?  Neither option makes for pleasant television watching.

Yup! This is why sometimes I lean more towards her being a random. They would back themselves into a corner if Mia/Maya is Olicity's kid.

Gawd can you imagine the rest of the series with BOTH Felicity and Oliver sulking. And if they don't walk around moping after they lost their kid it would just look weird and callous.

[Velocity23]

Or we found out that William hid at his grandmothers house when expelled.

[way2interested]

10 minutes ago, Mary0360 said:

But we still have one season maybe another 1,2,3 after that to go with the show and for Mia's age to fit that means Olicity would have to be pregnant around now. Which means we would have to watch Olicity have and lose their baby in the present.

Tbh, I'm 90% sure they are going to make her 19 to make her born in s10 (if they have one) in order to convince TPTB that they don't want a baby on set until the end, or make her older to have her be born in s8/s9 if those become the last season, so I don't think they'd ever write that scenario.

[apinknightmare]

4 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Or we found out that William hid at his grandmothers house when expelled.

I hope this is it because that was my burning question after the last episode. Where would a tween hang out (for a while, I guess?) after getting expelled from boarding school? Although I wonder what lie he told Nana Clayton about it, unless she just hates Oliver's guts and doesn't care.

[Morrigan2575]

13 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Or we found out that William hid at his grandmothers house when expelled.

Yep, would certainly explain how Olicity weren't informed. Maybe Will hacked the school and changed the contact to his grandparents

8 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Although I wonder what lie he told Nana Clayton about it, unless she just hates Oliver's guts and doesn't care.

That's totally believable. Upset that her daughter died and, the guy who abandoned daughter/grandchild gets custody! 

Edited February 9, 2019 by Morrigan2575

[scarynikki12]

I know they've said that the flash forwards are fixed, but I'm still expecting a reveal that this is a future that can be avoided.  Maybe the original plan was for them to be fixed and they'll change it in response to negative feedback from viewers, or maybe they've been lying to us this whole time, I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if the season ends with a message getting sent back in time in an effort to change things.  It could be as simple as "Oliver, Felicity, and John Diggle: keep your children close", which would result in major (and hopefully positive) changes based on what we've seen so far.  It wouldn't necessarily prevent Dinah from losing her cry, whatever is going on with Roy, or Rene becoming the political leader of the Glades ::eyeroll:: but William, Mia, and JJ would be significantly affected (not to mention their parents) and that's more interesting to me so I'd be fine with it.  

[apinknightmare]

I do think the intent was to keep the flash forwards fixed and continue on with that story, but I hope Beth has changed her mind about that. They do seem kinda tone deaf about listening to certain criticisms sometimes though, so who knows. 

Also, can someone refresh my memory? I don't remember - was it explicitly stated somewhere in the future that Dinah lost her cry, or is that just an assumption based on her slasher scar?

[jay741982]

9 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I do think the intent was to keep the flash forwards fixed and continue on with that story, but I hope Beth has changed her mind about that. They do seem kinda tone deaf about listening to certain criticisms sometimes though, so who knows. 

Also, can someone refresh my memory? I don't remember - was it explicitly stated somewhere in the future that Dinah lost her cry, or is that just an assumption based on her slasher scar?

I believe in the Episode that introduced Mia/Maya/Blackstar Dinah mentions the Scar was from when she lost her Cry. That Episode or the one after Dinah tells William Felicity is "dead"

[apinknightmare]

22 minutes ago, jay741982 said:

I believe in the Episode that introduced Mia/Maya/Blackstar Dinah mentions the Scar was from when she lost her Cry. That Episode or the one after Dinah tells William Felicity is "dead"

No, I rewatched those FFs - unless I blacked out during a scene, she didn't mention it. I initially thought she had mentioned it when she motioned to her scar when she first met up with Roy and William, but she didn't mention it then either, and I can only watch so much of her to figure it out, LOL. 

I was just wondering if I missed it (totally possible, because I'm not interested in her at all), or if people were assuming. I think it's kinda funny if she has lost the cry that she can somehow still talk normally. Oh, if only that slash had permanently disabled her vocal cords. 

ETA: wait, I misread the comment about it maybe being in the ep AFTER she tells William Felicity's dead. Let me go suffer through that.

ETA again: Nope, not there either. But holy god are Dinah and Zoe the worst vigilantes in existence. Find out there's a plot to blow up a city? DEFINITELY don't investigate because it's too dangerous, LOL. 

Edited February 10, 2019 by apinknightmare

[Mary0360]

1 hour ago, way2interested said:

Tbh, I'm 90% sure they are going to make her 19 to make her born in s10 (if they have one) in order to convince TPTB that they don't want a baby on set until the end, or make her older to have her be born in s8/s9 if those become the last season, so I don't think they'd ever write that scenario.

That still leaves the series ending on a cliff hanger or assumption that Oliver and Felicity lose their child and for the next 18-20 years do nothing about that in order to have 2040 be canon. To quote @BkWurm1 word, there seems to be very little scenarios that the writers can play out to reveal she's their child that isn't a dumpster fire, with the exception of some kind of time travelling reset or it being revealed to be another earth or something. 

[insomniadreams88]

12 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

holy god are Dinah and Zoe the worst vigilantes in existence. Find out there's a plot to blow up a city? DEFINITELY don't investigate because it's too dangerous, LOL. 

I know! And they’re basically representative of the entire Canary Network (the existence of which makes me roll my eyes), which doesn’t say much about them? No wonder Mia hates vigilantes. 

[apinknightmare]

Just now, insomniadreams88 said:

I know! And they’re basically representative of the entire Canary Network (the existence of which makes me roll my eyes), which doesn’t say much about them? No wonder Mia hates vigilantes. 

Right? I'm kind of hoping that Miaya, William and JJConnor are all running a long con with Felicity and Oliver's help to out the Canary network for their evils, with Roy as an unwitting pawn because he's been away too long to realize he's being duped. No wonder Felicity went underground and didn't want to join them. They suck!

[way2interested]

30 minutes ago, Mary0360 said:

That still leaves the series ending on a cliff hanger or assumption that Oliver and Felicity lose their child and for the next 18-20 years do nothing about that in order to have 2040 be canon. To quote @BkWurm1 word, there seems to be very little scenarios that the writers can play out to reveal she's their child that isn't a dumpster fire, with the exception of some kind of time travelling reset or it being revealed to be another earth or something. 

Not if the "losing their child" thing isn't what happens at all. There's still tons of options (long con, someone's lying, someone's keeping something, something happened a few years ago, characters are just not mentioning key details for clarification, etc.).

And pretty much any reason they go with is going to be argued as contradictory or a dumpster fire no matter how bad or not it is, so tbh it doesn't really sway me either way towards looking forward/wanting to know what happens. Bts reasoning is just what I'm going with.

[Morrigan2575]

8 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Not if the "losing their child" thing isn't what happens at all. There's still tons of options (long con, someone's lying, someone's keeping something, something happened a few years ago, characters are just not mentioning key details for clarification, etc.).

And pretty much any reason they go with is going to be argued as contradictory or a dumpster fire no matter how bad or not it is, so tbh it doesn't really sway me either way towards looking forward/wanting to know what happens. Bts reasoning is just what I'm going with.

I've decided everything they've said up to now is totally bullshit. 😁

[way2interested]

12 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I've decided everything they've said up to now is totally bullshit. 😁

For sure. I mean, the biggest driving information of the FF we already know is false (Felicity is dead! Wait, nvm, she's in 716), so, yeah, a lot of the info following that has got to be wrong or missing too.

[Mary0360]

If it's a long con or they are just "bull shitting" then what? We are expected to believe that everyone including Mia's potential brother are acting like they don't know who Mia is in situations not required for them to pretend not to know her and Mia is acting like she doesn't know who they are and refers to Oliver and Felicity by their names as though she doesn't know them intimately and appears to hate them or at least what they represent- vigilantism- for what actual purpose? Not saying it's out of the realm of possibility but if it  happens it's a cluster fuck of pointless nonsense and makes everything about the flash forwards pointless nonsense. 

[insomniadreams88]

A long con could work if they say the team (aka those with the Mark of Four) were estranged for a while and Dinah, Zoe, Rene, even Roy, etc. wouldn’t recognize Mia. If William and Mia are lying and do recognize each other, they could say the hozen being activated was a signal and William knew not to give up Mia’s identity once he saw MC Queen in Felicity’s logs (wasn’t that name there?) and either there was a signal they didn’t show between the siblings or Mia knew to follow William’s lead. 

Lets be real. The FFs are messy. In fact, I’m pretty sure they could come up with some crazy messy explanation in which Mia is Dinah’s daughter if they wanted to. 

[Mary0360]

3 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

A long con could work if they say the team (aka those with the Mark of Four) were estranged for a while and Dinah, Zoe, Rene, even Roy, etc. wouldn’t recognize Mia. If William and Mia are lying and do recognize each other, they could say the hozen being activated was a signal and William knew not to give up Mia’s identity once he saw MC Queen in Felicity’s logs (wasn’t that name there?) and either there was a signal they didn’t show between the siblings or Mia knew to follow William’s lead. 

Lets be real. The FFs are messy. In fact, I’m pretty sure they could come up with some crazy messy explanation in which Mia is Dinah’s daughter if they wanted to. 

Well considering that Mia is anywhere between 20-18 it means Dinah and Rene would have to be estranged within either this season or next to not know that Oliver and Felicity have a child. 

[apinknightmare]

The possibility of Mia (if she is O/F's) being stolen and Oliver and Felicity not finding her for twenty years would be nonsense IMO. So would them willingly giving her up. A long-con of sorts (with Mia, William and whoever else as willing participants for whatever reason) is the only way out that I can think of that would make actual sense to me. And that ARCHER surveillance program could be a really simple explanation as to why people are pretending not to know each other and going by different names. 

4 minutes ago, Mary0360 said:

Well considering that Mia is anywhere between 20-18 it means Dinah and Rene would have to be estranged within either this season or next to not know that Oliver and Felicity have a child. 

They could know O/F had a child and still not recognize her as an adult depending on how long it'd been since they've been close. 

[insomniadreams88]

1 minute ago, Mary0360 said:

Well considering that Mia is anywhere between 20-18 it means Dinah and Rene would have to be estranged within either this season or next to not know that Oliver and Felicity have a child. 

Not necessarily. They could think their kid is somewhere else and only know her as Mia and have not seen her in years. They could all have the tattoo because they went their separate ways X years ago. 

Roy didn’t recognize William when he first saw him. They could easily say that Dinah didn’t recognize Mia when she first encountered her and Mia never told her who she is for whatever reason. 

[Mary0360]

19 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

The possibility of Mia (if she is O/F's) being stolen and Oliver and Felicity not finding her for twenty years would be nonsense IMO. So would them willingly giving her up. A long-con of sorts (with Mia, William and whoever else as willing participants for whatever reason) is the only way out that I can think of that would make actual sense to me. And that ARCHER surveillance program could be a really simple explanation as to why people are pretending not to know each other and going by different names. 

They could know O/F had a child and still not recognize her as an adult depending on how long it'd been since they've been close. 

But who exactly are they conning when in private situations they've pretended not to know her and Mia has referred to Oliver and Felicity by name in private situations. Are they all conning each other including Mia conning her brother and vice versa? To achieve what exactly? 

And not recognising Mia as an adult I can understand but if Oliver and Felicity have kid/s why hasn't anyone mentioned or referred to them. Especially when the plot of the flash forwards is them following a trail of what Felicity is up to. Why not mention, hey maybe we should ask her daughter/son/twins etc. 

I think what annoys me is if the purpose of this storyline is leading to Mia being revealed as Oliver and Felicitys daughter then why not just establish she is their daughter from the start. It's not a shocking thing to believe that Oliver and Felicity would procreate given they are married and have both indicated they'd like kids in subtle ways over the years. Or if they do want the added mystery why not at least reference that there is a kid out there, or link Felicitys "evilness" with her sadness or anger at losing her daughter x amount of time ago sending her over the edge, and then have the surprise reveal that what do you know Mia is their daughter. 

To me the meat and bones of the storyline seems to be what's happened to Felicity and how does it relate to a plan to destroy Star City and how did Star City and the Glades get so divided in the first place. Why not have Oliver and Felicitys daughter involved in that from the  get go with her brother and all the other Team Arrow kids. It hurts my brain to think how exactly they are going to explain it.

Edited February 10, 2019 by Mary0360

[tarotx]

I've been avoiding spoilers since I'm way behind this season but I've watched the latest episode because Sara was in it. I've been having questions for awhile but especially now. I know the future timeline isn't connected to Lot's Star City 2046, but what about the events of Zari's time? With the anti metahuman act of 2021 and a 2042 where ARGUS experiments on metas? Sara, Ray and Rory were called Meta's even though they weren't.

Mia has to be connected to Oliver. This show is at it's core Oliver's story. And Mia's clearly being pushed so the link to Oliver has to be there and strong. As soon as she was cast I thought the actress looked like she could be EBR's relative. I thought it was a nice touch Mia, Connor coming to the bunker. I mean if this is OTA's offspring. 

I have no idea why William wouldn't know a sister but all I think of is that she was young and sent to boarding school. What if Mia was 12(thea's age at the time of the Gambit sinking. What if she wasn't a fighter then - maybe not even blonde? That could give Oliver and Felicity at least a little family time before all hell unfolds. 

I think I just can't remove it from Zari's time and it's setting me up for failure..

Where's Diggle and ARGUS? Yes I've barely watched the FF's...😇

Mia calls JJ Connor so secret names and identities might not be farfetched.

(Of course anything can be wiped by time travel or weird crossover crap (I haven't watched the Crossover this season yet).

[apinknightmare]

38 minutes ago, Mary0360 said:

But who exactly are they conning when in private situations they've pretended not to know her and Mia has referred to Oliver and Felicity by name in private situations. Are they all conning each other including Mia conning her brother and vice versa? To achieve what exactly? 

I answered that question in the comment that you quoted. They could know they're being surveilled and pretending (that's even happened before in this show!) for a purpose that we don't know yet since we've only met one of the people behind this Star City bombing plot, and only for a second. 

38 minutes ago, Mary0360 said:

And not recognising Mia as an adult I can understand but if Oliver and Felicity have kid/s why hasn't anyone mentioned or referred to them.

For suspense. Oliver's only been mentioned in passing twice - we have no idea what he's up to or if he's even alive, because they don't want us to know that yet. If Mia is Oliver and Felicity's, no one's mentioned her because Beth wants to keep us guessing.

38 minutes ago, Mary0360 said:

I think what annoys me is if the purpose of this storyline is leading to Mia being revealed as Oliver and Felicitys daughter then why not just establish she is their daughter from the start.

First, I think the purpose of the flash forwards is to establish future Team Arrow (after the future villain plot is resolved by them all coming together), and second, Beth wants us to keep guessing while she moves the pieces to establish Future Team Arrow. 

I get caught up in speculating as much as anyone - it's hard not to, but for now it's hard to make sense of anything because nothing is supposed to make sense. 

Edited February 10, 2019 by apinknightmare

[Mary0360]

5 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I answered that question in the comment that you quoted. They could know they're being surveilled and pretending (that's even happens before in this show!) for a purpose that we don't know yet since we've only met one of the people behind this Star City bombing plot, and only for a second. 

For suspense. Oliver's only been mentioned in passing twice - we have no idea what he's up to or if he's even alive, because they don't want us to know that yet. If Mia is Oliver and Felicity's, no one's mentioned her because Beth wants to keep us guessing. 

I mean that means that their being survielled even in private? I mean they were in Mia's apartment pretending not to know each other. I mean William seems to be a tech genius, Felicity is a tech genius and if Curtis is alive he's a tech genius as well. Between the three of them you would think they'd have enough brain power to create bug killers or distorters so they don't have to act like they don't know each other. And why is it specific to Mia only? If there's some kind of danger to them why didn't William pretend not to know other members of the team and vice versa?

Im not saying that's not what is happening or could happen, and that they are dragging things out, I just believe that given the limited quality these writers have in pulling off even the most basic plots I can't see them pulling something off as needlessly complicated as the amount of plot holes this storyline has so far in a way that isn't a train wreck. 

[apinknightmare]

9 minutes ago, Mary0360 said:

I mean that means that their being survielled even in private? I mean they were in Mia's apartment pretending not to know each other. I mean William seems to be a tech genius, Felicity is a tech genius and if Curtis is alive he's a tech genius as well. Between the three of them you would think they'd have enough brain power to create bug killers or distorters so they don't have to act like they don't know each other.

Unless the getting surveilled is the point, and they're using it to their advantage similar to the way that Oliver did when he knew Slade had planted cameras in the mansion.

9 minutes ago, Mary0360 said:

And why is it specific to Mia only? If there's some kind of danger to them why didn't William pretend not to know other members of the team and vice versa?

We don't know that they would be pretending because there's a danger to them. Maybe Mia's gotten in with some crowd via her thievery and they're trying to keep her connection to William quiet, who knows. I'm not expecting it to make complete sense in the end. I mean, there's no obvious reason for Connor - who we know is JJ - to go by a different name, but he is.

9 minutes ago, Mary0360 said:

Im not saying that's not what is happening or could happen, and that they are dragging things out, I just believe that given the limited quality these writers have in pulling off even the most basic plots I can't see them pulling something off as needlessly complicated as the amount of plot holes this storyline has so far in a way that isn't a train wreck. 

Oh, I'm not expecting it to be seamless, or even good. I'm expecting it to be a train wreck, it just doesn't have to be as awful as Mia being abducted from infancy or Oliver and Felicity giving her away when she was a baby, etc. They can make up any reason they want to justify why these people are doing the things that they're doing, and we're sitting here trying to solve a puzzle when we don't even have a quarter of the pieces, LOL.

Edited February 10, 2019 by apinknightmare

[insomniadreams88]

4 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

there's no obvious reason for Connor - who we know is JJ - to go by a different name, but he is.

Yeah, I hope we get an explanation for this soon because on LoT, it was because Diggle was dead, right? DR has already said he’s alive and well in the FF. Unless Diggle’s alive and well because he’s gone full ARGUS and he’s doing well because of that and JJ doesn’t agree with his methods? But I doubt that.  

Undercover work would really be the only way to explain JJ going by Connor now, I think. And that could be connected to Mia and her connection to Felicity and Felicity supposedly going evil and it all being undercover stuff/some sort of con. 

Honestly, I’m just going to be glad to get information about the future not from Dinah. 

[apinknightmare]

12 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Honestly, I’m just going to be glad to get information about the future not from Dinah. 

Yes! I want pretty much anyone’s take on things but hers. 

[JamieLynn832002]

1 hour ago, Mary0360 said:

a cluster fuck of pointless nonsense

At this point, I'm pretty sure I'm going to find this a very apt phrase for the FF regardless of who Mia is or isn't.

[statsgirl]

It's possible that Mia calls Felicity by her name instead of "Mom" to hide their connection, especially if Felicity is in a dangerous situation.

5 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

I know they've said that the flash forwards are fixed, but I'm still expecting a reveal that this is a future that can be avoided.  Maybe the original plan was for them to be fixed and they'll change it in response to negative feedback from viewers, or maybe they've been lying to us this whole time, I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if the season ends with a message getting sent back in time in an effort to change things.  It could be as simple as "Oliver, Felicity, and John Diggle: keep your children close", which would result in major (and hopefully positive) changes based on what we've seen so far.  It wouldn't necessarily prevent Dinah from losing her cry, whatever is going on with Roy, or Rene becoming the political leader of the Glades ::eyeroll:: but William, Mia, and JJ would be significantly affected (not to mention their parents) and that's more interesting to me so I'd be fine with it.  

I'm really hoping that they will go a switch and make the future change because there is nothing in the future scenes that makes me want to watch further episodes on this show to find out what happens.  Everything is bleak: William hates Felicity and feels like he can't have a relationship because he was abandoned by his parents and if Mia is their child, they lost her before Roy, Dinah or Rene had a chance to know of her existence.

I thought MG was bad but all this misery just for a gotcha ... what a mess.

5 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

Also, can someone refresh my memory? I don't remember - was it explicitly stated somewhere in the future that Dinah lost her cry, or is that just an assumption based on her slasher scar?

We haven't been told. JH was teasing in an interview that Dinah may or may not have lost her voice in whatever led to the scar. Probably false hope and the cry is still there.

15 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Haha I actually asked my 6yo about this and he says he remembers everything from around 3 onwards and could ID us if he was snatched at 3 but not at 2 yrs.

Hee, I was reading an article on infantile amnesia for my class last week, and the current thinking is that kids of that age can remember but they haven't consolidated it into longterm memories. It's different with different kids but I think a 2 year old would have some memories of parents if snatched. At the least, a sense of familiarity when meeting up with them.

[Featherhat]

1 hour ago, JamieLynn832002 said:

At this point, I'm pretty sure I'm going to find this a very apt phrase for the FF regardless of who Mia is or isn't.

Yeah. It's as vague as possible for cliffhangers It's William and Roy! Felicity is totally dead and 100% evil! Bare mentions of Oliver because of the crossover (maybe) etc. Maybe things are fixed, maybe they aren't. Maybe they were and now aren't. Although this show does have a bad habit of doubling down on things that really aren't working. And nothing making sense in the end. 

[BkWurm1]

7 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I've decided everything they've said up to now is totally bullshit. 😁

Good plan.  

4 hours ago, Mary0360 said:

Well considering that Mia is anywhere between 20-18 it means Dinah and Rene would have to be estranged within either this season or next to not know that Oliver and Felicity have a child. 

Don't tease me with false hope!  

Quote

I get caught up in speculating as much as anyone - it's hard not to, but for now it's hard to make sense of anything because nothing is supposed to make sense. 

We don't even know what the ultimate goal is for the FF's.  Are they supposed to be still selling the Arrow show we knew with the leads we know and thus all will somehow tie back to Oliver and the team's mission or are they just one long gotcha to be undone during next year's crossover? Or are the FF's supposed to be one long massive pilot for a show to take over when/if Arrow has it's last season and thus what happens to Oliver and Felicity and Star City really doesn't matter as long as it sets up a new generation?  Without knowing what the powers that be have planned for Arrow, I can't get into the mind of the show runner since if that last extreme option actually was correct, it would mean all the normal rules of how the show would be written is tossed out of the window.  

There are so many good reasons to say that there's no way they would be trying to set up a replacement like that for Arrow, when I delve deep into the question, I always convince myself it would be suicide for any spinoff to start by trashing the legacy of the previous show (spinoff sure, but  at the expense of the existing show and characters??)  but at the same time, the more the FF's seem to crap on the current characters and the current show timeline, the more I have to consider the possibility at least.  

I hate to even say stuff like that because I feel like I'm fear mongering but I'm just so damn confused about what they are trying to accomplish with the grim and unhappy FF's that are supposedly "fixed".  I've never so actively hoped the show runner is lying to me.    

If I didn't have denial right now, I don't think I'd have the show anymore. 

Edited February 10, 2019 by BkWurm1

[Mellowyellow]

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

There are so many good reasons to say that there's no way they would be trying to set up a replacement like that for Arrow, when I delve deep into the question, I always convince myself it would be suicide for any spinoff to start by trashing the legacy of the previous show (spinoff sure, but  at the expense of the existing show and characters??)  but at the same time, the more the FF's seem to crap on the current characters and the current show timeline, the more I have to consider the possibility at least.  

I hate to even say stuff like that because I feel like I'm fear mongering but I'm just so damn confused about what they are trying to accomplish with the grim and unhappy FF's that are supposedly "fixed".  I've never so actively hoped the show runner is lying to me.    

If I didn't have denial right now, I don't think I'd have the show anymore. 

Yeah I try not to post these days because almost every post I make is bitter and reading my posts you wonder why I'm even watching this stupid show. I am trying to post less (since it's all negative) and just accept that I am watching this show out of morbid curiosity to see how it ends. One thing they have managed to do is dangle us stragglers along by not letting us know where things stand. I peaced out on Harry Potty the moment I read spoilers for book 6. Arrow is so annoyingly unclear so even though I think it's trash I keep watching.

Haha I have also taken up watching figure skating which is nerve wracking and rage inducing in its own way. In this case real people's futures and careers are at stake so that somewhat helps with the cringe fest that is Arrow. At least Arrow is fiction.

[Morrigan2575]

5 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

There are so many good reasons to say that there's no way they would be trying to set up a replacement like that for Arrow, when I delve deep into the question, I always convince myself it would be suicide for any spinoff to start by trashing the legacy of the previous show (spinoff sure, but  at the expense of the existing show and characters??)  but at the same time, the more the FF's seem to crap on the current characters and the current show timeline, the

The Flash Forward are very simple and obvious. People here have pointed out several times that Beth is redoing S1 with GA. Oh, she had Emiko shot in the same place as Oliver! Oh, she's doing a nuOTA with Emiko/GA, Rene/Diggle, Curtis/Felicity!  The Flash Forwards are no different.

S7 is Beth's first season as show runner. I haven't decided if she's creatively bankrupt or if she likes the symmetry/symbolism but, S7 is her version if S1.  She's got S1 Hood in the present storyline with Emiko and, the Flashbacks have been replaced by Flash Forwards. The Flashbacks were 5 years on the Island (bullshit!) where nothing good happened!  The Flash Fowards are set up the same way, SC=Island, where nothing good happens (again, Total Bullshit!)

Is it possible that when Arrow ends (and I'm still saying S10, unless SA calls it quits earlier) they will do a spin-off with the Future cast? Sure but, it's just as likely they go with a present day Emiko/GA Spin-off. It's also just as possible that there's no spin-off from Arrow directly and, instead DC-WB pulls more characters from the comics, or does a Flash Spinoff (Wally, Dawn, Jessie - Team Flash! Or Kid Flash! or bring on Bart Allen - Impulse!)

Is the ultimate goal of the Flash Forwards to kill off Arrow and, get rid of the present cast so they can make it all about Will, Mia, Zoe, JJ, Dinah and Rene? No, not at all. 

Edited February 10, 2019 by Morrigan2575

[tv echo]

15 hours ago, Trisha said:

Hmmm...I’m not sure I’m jumping to “he’s going to live with her” right away but it is interesting that it seems like Samantha’s family is being introduced at this particular moment. 

https://twitter.com/olicitysizzles/status/1094360040541245442

Here's the IMDb link to 713 cast list, which now includes actress Beverley Breuer, who's playing a character named Irene Clayton...
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7508738/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast

14 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

Also, can someone refresh my memory? I don't remember - was it explicitly stated somewhere in the future that Dinah lost her cry, or is that just an assumption based on her slasher scar?

IIRC, it was never said that Dinah lost her cry. I think it was fan speculation based on the scar on Dinah's throat and the fact that she didn't use her canary cry in her fight scene in the flashforward.

ETA: As for Mia/Blackstar's age, KM: "So I've been told that I'm - I think, between - they haven't told me an exact age. I know I'm between 19 and like 23, I think. So I don't know where exactly I fall. But I know I'm playing my age now, which is awesome. (Laughs) Someone who's been playing 18 for the last four years, it's really awesome to play my own age." (Jan. 8, 2019 Popcorn Talk video of "I Could Never Be Katherine McNamara" interview, page 8 of Spoilers thread and page 744 of Social Media thread)

Edited February 10, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Per IMDb's 715 cast list, actress Rose Ranger is playing a character described as "Senior Officer"...
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7508618/?ref_=tt_ep_nx

Per IMDb's 716 cast list, actress Orin McRey is playing a character described as "Tattoo Artist"...
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7508622/?ref_=tt_ep_nx

Edited February 10, 2019 by tv echo

[BkWurm1]

3 hours ago, tv echo said:

Per IMDb's 715 cast list, actress Rose Ranger is playing a character described as "Senior Officer"...
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7508618/?ref_=tt_ep_nx

Per IMDb's 716 cast list, actress Orin McRey is playing a character described as "Tattoo Artist"...
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7508622/?ref_=tt_ep_nx

Aww.  I was hoping they'd do the tats prison style on their own.  

Quote

I peaced out on Harry Potty the moment I read spoilers for book 6. 

@Mellowyellow now you have to say what was your NOPE moment.

[insomniadreams88]

716 is the FF episode, so I wonder if we’ll get FBs to them getting the tattoo or if that’ll be the scene in the present to connect to the FFs and possibly Oliver’s only scene, to maintain the crossover deal mystery. 

If they do get the tattoo in the present in 716, that suggests Curtis does die soon.

[calliope1975]

There's a lot of things I don't want to see on this show, and actually watching them get matching tattoos is very high on that list. 

[statsgirl]

I will accept watching them get the tattoos if it's because Curtis has been killed.  Otherwise, nope.

Hey Beth, how about after the fakeout of Diaz snapping Curtis' neck, he kills him for real this time?  Just asking.

I was trying to think of shows that continued when the original main characters had left (e.g. Stargate replacing Richard Dean Anderson with Ben Browder) and iirc, it was always with great respect to the original character.

ER possibly did it the best, going through three different main casts during its 15 seasons). New characters were generally hated at first so they were combined with the remaining old characters until they took over. I guess Arrow is doing this through the enlarged Team Arrow but 2.5 seasons in, Dinah, Rene and Curtis are still pretty much hated by the audience.  Mia and Adult William haven't even interacted  with OTA and Sea doesn't seem to be good enough to carry the show.  If Beth was counting on continuing the show when SA and maybe EBR and DR have left, she'd better be taking a good hard look at the response to NTA.

[tv echo]

Edited February 11, 2019 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

I love that even in a dystopian trash future, someone's out there still doing nails for the broken, rough and tumble citizens of Star City.

[tv echo]

20 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

716 is the FF episode, so I wonder if we’ll get FBs to them getting the tattoo or if that’ll be the scene in the present to connect to the FFs and possibly Oliver’s only scene, to maintain the crossover deal mystery. 

If they do get the tattoo in the present in 716, that suggests Curtis does die soon.

Or - it could be a FB of Mia getting her tattoo.

[insomniadreams88]

https://www.tvinsider.com/751657/arrow-season-7-episode-13-preview/

No mention of Felicity really bothers me. Curtis talking about them working together again. Diggle listing the people who did/didn't get notes. I guess Diggle's just including Felicity with Oliver, but come on. She's her own person/hero. 

[Velocity23]

I am more bothered by the acting Juliana showed. 

[apinknightmare]

Do Curtis and Diggle not work for ARGUS anymore, or are they allowed to go plainclothes for Star City's not-so-finest whenever there's an emergency? Gotta love how that reciprocity works for everything but them getting arrested last week. 

Also, I'm gonna be very sad that Dinah's going to survive a throat slashing with the others didn't. Guess that canary cry hardened everything in the neck area.

Edited February 11, 2019 by apinknightmare

[KenyaJ]

I can't describe in words how much I hate seeing "Team" Arrow all in the SCPD headquarters. I feel like I'm watching a CBS procedural, and there's a reason I don't watch those.

Also, Laurel being in DC must be a blow to the fans who were still convinced as of yesterday that SA's chili spoiler meant Oliver was making chili for her in this episode. 

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

I can't describe in words how much I hate seeing "Team" Arrow all in the SCPD headquarters. I feel like I'm watching a CBS procedural, and there's a reason I don't watch those.

It is very Law and Order: Star City and I cannot express how much it turns me off. Please rebuild the lair, stat, Oliver. You've worked more magic in a week before. 

[lemotomato]

2 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

Also, Laurel being in DC must be a blow to the fans who were still convinced as of yesterday that SA's chili spoiler meant Oliver was making chili for her in this episode.

Don’t worry, they’ll just copy-paste her head on Felicity’s and pretend that’s what actually happened in the episode.

[Morrigan2575]

2 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Do Curtis and Diggle not work for ARGUS anymore, or are they allowed to go plainclothes for Star City's not-so-finest whenever there's an emergency? Gotta love how that reciprocity works for everything but them getting arrested last week. 

Also, I'm gonna be very sad that Dinah's going to survive a throat slashing with the others didn't. Guess that canary cry hardened everything in the neck area, unfortch. 

Which now that you mention it is hilarious.  I remember bitching in the Live Thread that FBI can't grant permanent immunity, especially at the State Level, which this Ban is a City or State Level Ordnance.  Then by end of episode that immunity is non-existent and never mentioned again because Rene is arrested and going to prison.