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Spoiler Discussion Thread: The Sequel

Door County Cherry

By Door County Cherry
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apinknightmare
apinknightmare

Anyone who actually thinks she's dead deserves the crushing disappointment they'll feel when they find out she isn't. 

apinknightmare
apinknightmare
calliope1975
calliope1975

If we're forgetting things, I hope one of them is Felicity and Curtis ever being in business together.  The time to redeem NTA was last season, and there was clearly no attempt to do so. Just lik

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way2interested

way2interested

1 hour ago, insomniadreams88 said:

JH posted an Instagram Story from the bunker set with RG. (Didn't have the sound on, so I don't know if anything was said/anyone else was heard in the background.)

You could see EBR and probably whoever will be Diggle's old military leader in it too

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way2interested

way2interested

(edited)
53 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Maybe they're one in the same? Dun dun dun!

On one hand, it's 719 chop-chop with wrapping this up. On the other hand, why is he in the bunker?

Speaking of, here's the guy who's probably playing him (unless this is someone else entirely I guess). Kind of blurry, I know, but anyone recognize him?

Screenshot (2).png

Edited by way2interested
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

9 hours ago, JamieLynn832002 said:

Am the only one who would be absolutely convinced right now Dig was going to die if it wasn't for the fact they haven't gotten the stupid tattoo yet? Something about an episode titled Spartan makes me nervous.

DR said Diggle is alive and well in 2040. 

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bethy

bethy

25 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

He's the secret Big Bad, part of Diggle's Argus storyline

Oh, right! I have to confess that I’ve kind of tuned out during the Argus plots this season. 😬

Thanks!

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Note that the above 719 casting breakdown for 'General Stewart' lists the following dates: "February 26th - March 8th" - which I assume are the shooting dates for that episode.

Also, do you think General Stewart is a wink at the Green Lantern?

Here are the links for 719 director Avi Youabian (I believe):
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1143132/
https://twitter.com/digitalcutter
https://www.instagram.com/ayouabian/

So we now have a Canary episode (718) and a Spartan episode (719). I'm expecting a Wild Dog episode next (720?) - remember this previously posted spoiler? Sounds like a Rene flashback to me...

Quote

-- In Vimeo video of actress Ivette Novales Gomez auditioning for the Arrow role of "Lara," she did a scene with the husband of her character. Transcription: ING: "(Laughs) Diego, you're a dead man! Sara's going to totally kill you if she's late for the game." Reader (off-screen): "No way we'll we late, the way I drive." ING: "What do you think you're doing?" Reader: "[Unintelligible words] in the Glades, Lara. Like the worst part of the worst part of town. I brought a last-minute tozar." ING: "So you're admitting you broke the rule?" Reader: "Kinda what I do, bit." ING: "[Unintelligible words] that you keep nothing in the house because you said we needed it for home protection. As in, it stays home. Now, come on! You guys are going to be late." Reader: "I thought we were going as a family." ING: "I got a headache." Reader: "Oh yeah? You taking something stronger than an aspirin for this headache?" ING: "You got something to say to me, Alan?" Reader: "I guess I do. Are you using again?" ING: "Am I using again? How can you even ask me something like that?" Reader: "Actually, I've been working up the nerve to ask you that for awhile. Since I found this taped to the back of the dresser drawer." ING: "You searched our bedroom?" Reader: "Yeah, 'cause it looks like my wife's a freakin' junkie! I don't - I just don't get it.We got out, Lara. We got out of the Glades. And here you are, bringing it back here. Back into our home." ING: "You're the last person who can get on their high horse -" Reader: "No matter what I've done, I've never done drugs. And I've never done it in our baby girl's home." ING: "Screw you, Alan!" Reader (using softer voice, different character?): "Are you fighting?" Reader: "Go get your jacket, honey. It's cold tonight. I'm throwing this away. When I get home, either there's no more drugs in this house or there's no more you in this house." (Nov. 10, 2018 Vimeo video of actress Ivette Novales Gomez audition, page 7 of Spoilers thread and page 36 of Spoiler Discussion Sequel thread)

I'm hoping that this means the season culminates with two episodes (721, 722) that are focused on Oliver & Felicity.

Edited by tv echo
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way2interested

way2interested

14 minutes ago, tv echo said:

I'm expecting a Wild Dog episode next (720?) - remember this previously posted spoiler? Sounds like a Rene flashback to me...

They aren't doing flashbacks this year (not counting that 30s one with BS from E2), I think. Also, that audition was back around/before 708 even started filming, so I think that if any thing she shows up way before 720. 

It's kind of weird since that scene pretty much already happened in 513 with Rene's actual episode, so I wonder if it's either an old audition or they just used it for the character.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Better yet - I hope the remaining episodes are...

719 - Spartan
720 - Overwatch
721 - Green Arrow*
722 - OTA

(* Yes, I know, 401's title was "Green Arrow." So maybe "Green Arrows" or "Green Arrow Redux.")

Edited by tv echo
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Chaser

Chaser

Only flashbacks with Felicity and SA didn’t film. Oliver really dies young right? Stupid crossover. 

I’m thinking the devastating news is that Felicity is dead dead...until she isn’t. 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

4 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I wouldn't trust anything Dinah or Zoe has to say. Plus, you know, these press releases are never 100% accurate.

"I'm sorry to tell you that your mother is really for real dead this time, Mia," Dinah says as Felicity walks up behind her.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

If Oliver is dead and they plan on changing the timeline in COIE, I hope at some point they just say, hey, Oliver's dead!

Not mentioning it just makes it seem like no one cares about him enough to question his whereabouts or like he was an absolutely horrid person that none of them ever want to talk about again. 

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

29 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Only flashbacks with Felicity and SA didn’t film. Oliver really dies young right? Stupid crossover. 

I’m thinking the devastating news is that Felicity is dead dead...until she isn’t. 

Personally I don't think Oliver is dead at all. I think this whole thing is nothing more than an extended Felicity is Dead/Evil or Mia isn't Olicitot until she is!  They talk about him as if he's dead but, that's just to throw people off.

I think this is all designed to sell Oliver dies in the crossover! When that's, not the plan at all. I think they want us looking at Oliver because they're going to kill someone else that's bigish. As for who, I'm learning towards Joe West at the moment but, I change my mind daily.

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Angel12d

Angel12d

(edited)

But if he's not dead, why is everything so terrible? Why doesn't William know about his sister? Why is the city such a mess? Why did Felicity presumably go "dark?" Something has definitely happened to Oliver, IMO. I just don't know what. Prison again? IDK.

The future is so bad that I'm at the point where I wouldn't mind if they made this whole thing pointless and changed it somehow, haha.

Edited by Angel12d
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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

Didn’t KM say something about Mia having to grow up with two superhero parents or something like that compared to William’s “normal life”? And I’m pretty sure she said something about not working with SA and EBR much yet, implying she does at some point — and I can’t see that being for her childhood scenes since a younger actress will likely be playing Mia. Or maybe I’m misremembering completely. 

Maybe the big twist in 716 will be that Oliver’s alive/was there for Mia’s childhood, but that’s not revealed until the episode’s almost over/final scene?

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JamieLynn832002

JamieLynn832002

(edited)
37 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

But if he's not dead, why is everything so terrible? Why doesn't William know about his sister? Why is the city such a mess? Why did Felicity presumably go "dark?" Something has definitely happened to Oliver, IMO. I just don't know what. Prison again? IDK.

The future is so bad that I'm at the point where I wouldn't mind if they made this whole thing pointless and changed it somehow, haha.

I don't disagree but if he is dead, why did William tell Roy that Oliver and Felicity both left him? And if he dies in the crossover Mia should be born by then so William should know about her unless his grandparents secretly cut off contact (which I do think is possible, Grandpa's facial expressions looked shady to me during the goodbye scene.) 

Totally with you on being okay if they render the FF pointless by changing it. At this point, they're sucky (in a the future sucks way) and largely nonsensical, I feel like just pointless would be an improvement.

Edited by JamieLynn832002
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Trisha

Trisha

If this really is all about the Crisis crossover and the flash forwards are basically showing us what the future would have been like without Oliver in a “It’s a Wonderful Life” scenario until the xover reverses things, then the writers are banking on the audience to have A LOT of loyalty to this show to be willing to stick around for almost a year believing that the main character dies. I just can’t believe the powers that be would sign off on pretending Oliver is dead from now until December. That’s TV suicide. 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

1 minute ago, Trisha said:

I just can’t believe the powers that be would sign off on pretending Oliver is dead from now until December. That’s TV suicide. 

I guess that might be why they're being vague about it, although it isn't all that difficult to put together since no one seems to give a shit where he is or how he's doing or how he feels about his wife allegedly being murdered. 

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

23 minutes ago, JamieLynn832002 said:

if he is dead, why did William tell Roy that Oliver and Felicity both left him? And if he dies in the crossover Mia should be born by then so William should know about her unless his grandparents secretly cut off contact (which I do think is possible, Grandpa's facial expressions looked shady to me during the goodbye scene.) 

Yeah, I didn’t like the grandparents at all, considering they blamed Oliver for not being around when he didn’t know about William and I can totally see them cutting off contact and blaming Oliver and Felicity. I just can’t see how Oliver and Felicity wouldn’t then go to CC once they’re told they can’t see/talk to William. 

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

5 hours ago, Chaser said:

Only flashbacks with Felicity and SA didn’t film. Oliver really dies young right? Stupid crossover. 

I’m thinking the devastating news is that Felicity is dead dead...until she isn’t. 

5 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

"I'm sorry to tell you that your mother is really for real dead this time, Mia," Dinah says as Felicity walks up behind her.

If they tried to pull the sorry, Felicity is dead dead without Felicity showing up immediately, I think they would really alienate the fandom.  

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)
10 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Didn’t KM say something about Mia having to grow up with two superhero parents or something like that compared to William’s “normal life”? And I’m pretty sure she said something about not working with SA and EBR much yet, implying she does at some point — and I can’t see that being for her childhood scenes since a younger actress will likely be playing Mia. Or maybe I’m misremembering completely. 

Here's what KM said:

-- On whether we will get any insight into why William feels abandoned by his parents, KM: "For sure. Both [William and Mia] feel extremely abandoned in their own ways, and as much as the two of them are at odds, their relationship is really, really wonderful and so rich, because there are all these different facets to it. First of all, you have this sibling rivalry - 'you were the biological kid'/'but you were the one who got to experience more of a normal childhood.' Both of them are jealous of each other, and yet they bond with each other because no one can else can understand the experience of being Oliver and Felicity’s child. They bond over the struggle that that entails, the feeling of abandonment, and the feeling of being second to the greater good of the city. ... It’s not easy growing up with superhero parents and feeling as though you are Priority No. 2. Yes, they understand it’s important, but also you’re a kid and you want your parents to care about you and what you need and what you want, and not put you aside to defend strangers." (Feb. 11 2019 TVLine article, page 9 of Spoilers thread and page 94 of Spoiler Discussion Sequel thread)

-- KM: "To speak about brothers and sisters on television, William and Mia's relationship... is also very interesting, because it's not easy to be the child of vigilantes. It's not easy to be the child of superheroes. And so, only the two of them understand what it's like to have parents that - to have those parents that will sacrifice everything, including their children, to save the greater good. And that causes a lot of ... (long pause) ... issues within and between the two of them. And also it's a very interesting situation because they're both jealous of each other, in certain ways. You know, William isn't the biological child of both of them, but Mia's childhood was a lot different than William's. So it's very interesting to see how the two of them relate, how they get along, and also where that little bit of sibling rivalry lies." (Feb. 18, 2019 KM instagram live video, page 10 of Spoilers thread and page 97 of Spoiler Discussion Sequel thread)

-- On whether SA and EBR both knew that she knew and whether it was a secret among the three of them, KM: "I believe so. There were some people on-set, certain department heads that knew, but Mia doesn’t find her parents right away, so I’ve met Stephen and Emily but I haven’t worked with them a ton. We’ve been on opposite schedules for a lot of the time I’ve been on the show but as people find out, it’s been interesting to see. The cast and crew have been so welcoming and everyone’s been excited to see this new iteration of their power couple. It’s been an interesting journey because from Day 1, Beth has said they’re trying to combine the best qualities of Oliver and Felicity - his physical strength and her intellectual strength. It’s been an interesting thought process trying to combine those and make them into something new. But I love challenges like that." (Feb. 11 2019 TVLine article, page 9 of Spoilers thread and page 94 of Spoiler Discussion Sequel thread)

Edited by tv echo
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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

Thanks @tv echo! The quotes I meant specifically were:

Quote

"It’s not easy growing up with superhero parents and feeling as though you are Priority No. 2. Yes, they understand it’s important, but also you’re a kid and you want your parents to care about you and what you need and what you want, and not put you aside to defend strangers."

To me, that sounded like Mia grows up with both her parents — or Oliver at least doesn't die in COIE, at which point she would be, what, a couple months old, depending on when COIE airs, and wouldn't remember anything.

Quote

"I’ve met Stephen and Emily but I haven’t worked with them a ton."

I may be reading into it, but I honestly expected her to say she hadn't worked with either of them at all. Because going by what's aired so far, she hasn't. 

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way2interested

way2interested

35 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I may be reading into it, but I honestly expected her to say she hadn't worked with either of them at all. Because going by what's aired so far, she hasn't. 

The interview was after they finished 716, so it would have been lying to say that she hadn't worked with EBR, even if they are now framing it as "just flashbacks." SA's another thing, maybe it's just easier to generalize with basically not much for both of them since it's easier to say since the general audience see that Oliver and Felicity aren't in the FF so far instead of "yeah, I filmed with one but not the other", or maybe SA filmed a quick scene or 2 when he was in Vancouver at the time or during the schedule of another episode (I still think he's in the episode in some form since SA is in every episode, but there are many ways to still include him in the episode without Oliver even being there). I don't want to read into too much either, but idk she hasn't really lied or anything like that yet (the Mia/Maya thing I don't necessarily count since it sounds like that was actually a change was made last minute for filming 713 and then going back for filming 712, even then she stopped calling her character "Maya" before 712 even aired vs. the Tina/Dinah thing where Tina was at least still used in the episode) 

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

7 minutes ago, way2interested said:

The interview was after they finished 716, so it would have been lying to say that she hadn't worked with EBR, even if they are now framing it as "just flashbacks." SA's another thing, maybe it's just easier to generalize with basically not much for both of them since it's easier to say since the general audience see that Oliver and Felicity aren't in the FF so far instead of "yeah, I filmed with one but not the other", or maybe SA filmed a quick scene or 2 when he was in Vancouver at the time or during the schedule of another episode (I still think he's in the episode in some form since SA is in every episode, but there are many ways to still include him in the episode without Oliver even being there). I don't want to read into too much either, but idk she hasn't really lied or anything like that yet

What I find interesting is that the Q printed before KM's answer in the TVLine interview is: "Did Stephen [Amell] and Emily [Bett Rickards] both know that youknew? Was it a secret among the three of you?"

So she could have just answered that part of it. But instead, we got:

Quote

"Mia doesn’t find her parents right away, so I’ve met Stephen and Emily but I haven’t worked with them a ton."

Who knows what will happen, but if, say, 716 ends with Mia and William finding both Oliver and Felicity alive in the future, I will definitely remember this part of KM's interview. 

KM could have easily just said, "we don't know if Mia will find her parents." 

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way2interested

way2interested

(edited)
18 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Who knows what will happen,

Yeah, especially since that older tvline interview where the question was "Well, William didn't recognize you, so I guess you're not Olicity's kid. And I asked Beth about Roy and she said that Roy doesn't know her, so...?" and she just responded to the Roy portion to avoid lying about Olicity, so it's not like this stuff couldn't be on purpose.

Gah, it's like analyzing SA's answers in the blue moons when he does interviews.

Edited by way2interested
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jay741982

jay741982

(edited)

All I know is it's amazing how much I cant stand that Rene and Aunt Dinah seem to have an easier time with Zoe .  Yeah let's have The loved Characters seem like Crappy Parents with their kids feeling Abandoned!  I do not get why and the Obession with Rene and Dinah and why Oliver and Felicity get dumped on Etc Etc. I'm so sick of it. I wanted Willam and Mia proudly being thier kids and knowing how badass Oliver and Felicity are. its sickening seeing how much the writers are trying to force me to like Rene and Dinah like last year didnt happen. And seeing Olicity and Diggle kiss their ass. I so want Dinah being Evil in the FF so Mia can kick the shit out of her.

Edited by jay741982
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JamieLynn832002

JamieLynn832002

I hate them all too and I don't think the divorce one even makes sense. Short of Oliver actually trying to kill Mia or Felicity (which would never happen) I can't see Felicity cutting Oliver out of their daughter's life or Oliver letting it happen. And since they apparently never left SC, I don't think it would explain the team not recognizing Mia.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

50 minutes ago, JamieLynn832002 said:

I hate them all too and I don't think the divorce one even makes sense. Short of Oliver actually trying to kill Mia or Felicity (which would never happen) I can't see Felicity cutting Oliver out of their daughter's life or Oliver letting it happen. And since they apparently never left SC, I don't think it would explain the team not recognizing Mia.

Plus, she set up her bunker security failsafe specifically for Oliver to be able to get through, which doesn't exactly scream divorce either. 

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

Yeah, the only way an Olicity divorce would explain Mia growing up with Oliver — which no one’s actually said she does — would be if they made Oliver a villain. He’d have to either try to kill Felicity or Mia (like @JamieLynn832002 said) or abandon his family. Neither is ever going to happen. Oliver and Felicity are never getting divorced. 

The prison option may not be completely off the table though. Not with regards to Mia not growing up with him or in the Slabslide sense, but perhaps when it comes to where Oliver and Felicity are? Maybe they’re both in some sort of prison or prisons (of Kevin’s making) in the Glades in the FFs. 

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

I'm want to see what 714 and 716 have to say but, I'm going to sit over here in my corner of Oliver is not dead and they're not divorced and whatever happened to cause his absence in 2040 SC probably didn't even happen that long ago. 

I really do think they're just keeping it super vague because they need to for next year's crossover. 

You can have Mia/Felicity only flashbacks that doesn't have to mean anything about Olicity during Mia's childhood. 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Oliver not being around doesn't have to mean anything, but it's pretty lulzy that not a single person has asked after him (and will get even lulzier if they stay vague about it until the fall - especially once future Felicity enters the picture).

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