Target Practice: Poisoned Arrow (The Bitterness Thread)

[apinknightmare]

Are you SERIOUS?  Is there a cite for this?

 

Yeah, she did. I'm pretty sure you can find it on YouTube. It was during the DC panel that had members from the Arrow, Flash, Constantine, and Gotham casts.

[AyChihuahua]

I knew she said something along those lines to someone, but had no idea she said it to an actual DC comics guy!

[Morrigan2575]

Are you SERIOUS? Is there a cite for this?

Here you go, I think they get to the Arrow actors around 23 minutes or so.

http://youtu.be/kDWNTWJcQEo

I knew she said something along those lines to someone, but had no idea she said it to an actual DC comics guy!

It's pretty much her goto comment she used it on a fan at one of the Australian Cons as well.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[AyChihuahua]

 

It's pretty much her goto comment she used it on a fan at one of the Australian Cons as well.

I knew she used it on a fan, and I thought that was incredibly rude.  Using it to an actual DC comics honcho is both incredibly rude and extremely impolitic.

 

And, thanks for the cite!

Edited January 25, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[romantic idiot]

It seems to have worked for her though. GJ basically went - how dare she not know who I am! Make her read the f***ing comics somehow. So the PTB arranged it by having her become BC - that's the only way she'd read them, right?

[HighHopes]

Added the link to it, but it was posted. 

 

What really turns me off in addition to the reply, is the coy way she says it. Of course they've read the comics KC, look where you are. 

Edited January 25, 2015 by HighHopes

[manbearpig]

Just seems like a joke that misfired to me...

[Chaser]

Just seems like a joke that misfired to me...

I agree. I don't think she meant any harm in; it was just the wrong time and place.

 

I do hope in the future she moves away from that joke. Either read the comics or don't. At the end of the day, its what it on screen that matters. The show is not following any certain comic so she doesn't need to be fluent in comic speak. But don't use that line (joke or not) as a response, if you don't read the comics yourself.

Edited January 25, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[statsgirl]

It was a joke that misfired (I hope it was a joke, the show owes Geoff Johns tons) but it's also her go-to line when asked that question, I suspect because she doesn't have another answer.

[scarynikki12]

I think it was definitely a joke.  It was also likely used to deflect any questions that she wasn't able to answer (by show decree or for personal reasons), hence being used at several cons/media events prior to Comic Con.  I do think that Geoff Johns put the kibosh on that after that panel.  I've met him at DC booth signings and he seems like a good guy so he probably did recognize that she was joking but also is smart enough to know that it looks really bad for any actor to make that joke to any audience.  I do think that someone (maybe DC, maybe a producer on DC's behalf) sat her down and explained it to her, which is why we haven't seen it show up again. 

 

I wouldn't say I'm bitter, exactly, but I am disappointed that the show hasn't used Barrowman to his full potential.  I'd much rather have the first half be Merlyn working behind the scenes to mess with Team Arrow and avoid Ra's, than orchestrating Sara's murder and convincing Oliver to not kill him.  Barrowman can chew scenery with the best of them so let the man have some fun.

[Luckylyn]

 

I wouldn't say I'm bitter, exactly, but I am disappointed that the show hasn't used Barrowman to his full potential.  I'd much rather have the first half be Merlyn working behind the scenes to mess with Team Arrow and avoid Ra's, than orchestrating Sara's murder and convincing Oliver to not kill him.  Barrowman can chew scenery with the best of them so let the man have some fun.

I totally agree.  John Barrowman really made Merlyn so compelling, and he's been wasted.  I don't understand promoting him to regular and then treating him like a guest star.  Thea and Malcolm's story has been so much squandered potential.  I thought she was using him to gain training and strength and then would end up being his downfall.  

 

I really hate how Thea's agency was taken away and how even though they know now that she essentially has drug educed Stockholm Syndrome she's still being left ignorant and vulnerable to Malcom's manipulation.  It really makes Oliver look like a thoughtless man to leave in the Climb without telling his sister everything so she could protect herself.  Seriously, I love the character Oliver, but he's been a crap brother (abandoning Thea after Tommy's death and Moira's arrest and then abandoning her again after their mother is murdered in front of them).  The show really needs to correct that.

[tessaray]

I finally got around to Left Behind.  I'm trying to figure out how long it's going to take for the bitterness to fade because I would have really liked this episode (beautifully directed, great performances by Team Arrow) - even including most of KC's performance as Laurel and BC, which was surprising - if they had done something else with Sara than literally trash her.

 

What's funny is that I can totally buy Laurel suiting up and beating the crap out of the guy who was released.  Oliver's probably dead, her sister is dead, all her work putting the bad guys away is down the drain.  So yeah.  And it still would have worked if Sara hadn't been killed, just hurt, kidnapped, whatever...   

[Chaser]

I think the problem with Malcolm is he pops in every once in a while to chew the scenery and then he disappears for a few episodes and no one talks about him. Malcolm should have more of a presence; he needs to loom over them.

 

They have had the perfect opportunity to do this too. If they had let Thea in on the truth, we could watch another Queen v Merlyn showdown. Merlyn 'controlling' his own daughter and Thea 'playing' him.

Edited January 25, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[Sakura12]

I wonder how different it woud've been if they had kept their original plan of making Sara villain, that was working with Slade. That would've caused Oliver some manpain if both his friends from the island turned evil and he had to fight them and find a way to not tell or tell the Lances' what happened to Sara on that island to make her that way. 

 

It would've been interesting to see the Slade and Sara on the island become the bad guys. Manu also said he played Slade a little bit in love with Sara (I didn't really see that) but it would've been interesting if they were a couple. I'm bitter that we didn't get to see that, especially if their plan was to kill off CL's character from the get go. If they went with that it would've made more sense. 

[HighHopes]

I wonder how different it woud've been if they had kept their original plan of making Sara villain, that was working with Slade. That would've caused Oliver some manpain if both his friends from the island turned evil and he had to fight them and find a way to not tell or tell the Lances' what happened to Sara on that island to make her that way. 

 

It would've been interesting to see the Slade and Sara on the island become the bad guys. Manu also said he played Slade a little bit in love with Sara (I didn't really see that) but it would've been interesting if they were a couple. I'm bitter that we didn't get to see that, especially if their plan was to kill off CL's character from the get go. If they went with that it would've made more sense. 

 

During season two I had a theory that Sara was evil, and part of Slade's "corrupt those he loves" plan was having Sara work with Team Arrow to get close to them. She would then purposefully mess up their plans and missions so they wouldn't be able to stop the Mirakuru or whatever. Her being with Oliver was also a part of it to corrupt Felicity, and try to get her to believe that Oliver no longer needed her on the team. (It was around the time where Oliver told Felicity he wouldn't lose her, hooked up with Sara and then failed to notice the very next episode that Felicity was upset). There was more to if, but I forget it now. 

 

I'm still bitter that we almost had that. 

[KirkB]

Manu played Slade as a little in love with Sara (which I never saw either) while the EP's were writing him in love with Shado, which I also never saw. Just one of the several reasons the whole thing was such a mess.

[Chaser]

I'm bitter they never had a full on fight between Sara and Isabelle.

[pootlus]

Manu played Slade as a little in love with Sara (which I never saw either) while the EP's were writing him in love with Shado, which I also never saw. Just one of the several reasons the whole thing was such a mess.

 

Yep there's a big difference between telling an actor their character is going to be killed off at the end of the season and letting them know what their character is supposed to be feeling about another character at that moment.

 

As mentioned before, they rely heavily on good acting (by Manu in this case) to overcome poor writing and poor communication with the actors.

[Guest]

During season two I had a theory that Sara was evil, and part of Slade's "corrupt those he loves" plan was having Sara work with Team Arrow to get close to them. She would then purposefully mess up their plans and missions so they wouldn't be able to stop the Mirakuru or whatever. Her being with Oliver was also a part of it to corrupt Felicity, and try to get her to believe that Oliver no longer needed her on the team. (It was around the time where Oliver told Felicity he wouldn't lose her, hooked up with Sara and then failed to notice the very next episode that Felicity was upset). There was more to if, but I forget it now. 

 

I'm still bitter that we almost had that. 

 

Um…that would have been amazing! And now I'm bitter too. 

[Sakura12]

Her wig really doesn't look any better than Sara's.  And why do Laurel and Roy look so weird in their masks? Am I going to have go with Sara found a better mask masker?

 

 

 

 

 

I'm also still baffled how Laurel manages to look more like a dominatrix than Sara..

Edited January 26, 2015 by Sakura12

[Starfish35]

For Roy....I'm not sure what it is, but something about that shade of red makes his skin look faintly green. It's really weird.

With Laurel.... I think the dominatrix effect comes from the zipped up to the chin black leather and the dark lipstick and mascara.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Starfish35

[apinknightmare]

With Laurel.... I think the dominatrix effect comes from the zipped up to the chin black leather and the dark lipstick and mascara.

 

Yeah, that's definitely what it is. Everything is way too harsh and there's just too much going on. She'd look better if she had the blacked-out eyes like Sara and got rid of the dark lipstick. Or unzipped the jacket. Or did anything other than what she's doing in that top left shot.

[Starfish35]

Haha yeah. Put a whip in her hand and give her some stiletto-heeled boots and the effect would be complete. ;)

Edited January 26, 2015 by Starfish35

[Chaser]

Agree with everything said above about the costumes/styling. And to add to the wig critique: why would you wear your hair down? Wouldn't up and out of your face be better? I'm thinking a tight bun, because a ponytail could be grabbed.

[Luckylyn]

Agree with everything said above about the costumes/styling. And to add to the wig critique: why would you wear your hair down? Wouldn't up and out of your face be better? I'm thinking a tight bun, because a ponytail could be grabbed.

Now that you mention it, loose hair even as a wig doesn't make sense for a crime fighter.  A bun would make more sense than a wig.

[catrox14]

I'm sorry but Laurel looks awful. She looks creepy

[Chiny11]

The lipstick bugs me. So whenever there is a critical issue that needs to be addressed ASAP (e.g. A Villan needs taking down ) AND the clock is ticking.... BC runs to put on her costume but has time to put on lipstick? Really?

I know we would never actually see her putting on the costume. But the thought that she has the "time" to apply lipstick (which is not required to hide her identity Or fight) is irksome. Ugh.

[TanyaKay]

I wonder how different it woud've been if they had kept their original plan of making Sara villain, that was working with Slade. That would've caused Oliver some manpain if both his friends from the island turned evil and he had to fight them and find a way to not tell or tell the Lances' what happened to Sara on that island to make her that way. 

 

It would've been interesting to see the Slade and Sara on the island become the bad guys. Manu also said he played Slade a little bit in love with Sara (I didn't really see that) but it would've been interesting if they were a couple. I'm bitter that we didn't get to see that, especially if their plan was to kill off CL's character from the get go. If they went with that it would've made more sense. 

 

I would've loved to see Slade Wilson and Sara Lance sexing things up and being general bad asses.

That would've been so much better than what happened with both Sara Lance and Shado.

[SonofaBiscuit]

I'm not sure how KC's Black Canary hair and makeup says "feminine," but I'm not a fashionista, so what do I know?

[TanyaKay]

For Roy....I'm not sure what it is, but something about that shade of red makes his skin look faintly green. It's really weird.

With Laurel.... I think the dominatrix effect comes from the zipped up to the chin black leather and the dark lipstick and mascara.

 

The difference between Oliver's and Roy's costume is that Oliver's hood is made of cloth and Roy's leather which makes him look weird. The leather just does not sit well and something is always sticking out. Plus the whole black grease around the eyes with red mask makes him look like a zombie. Would've been much better if his mask was darker ... close to black and his grease in a lighter shade, like Oliver's.

 

Laurel looks like 100 years old in that platinum blonde wig. Just a big NO.

[catrox14]

I'm not sure how KC's Black Canary hair and makeup says "feminine," but I'm not a fashionista, so what do I know?

 

Looking at Sara and Laurel side by side, well I think Sara looks far more feminine, sexy, beautiful, and scary because her power comes from within and it shows IMO all over her face and demeanor.

 

Laurel looks like a bad cosplayer (not a swipe at cosplayers because I bet they would have a better costume than what Laurel is wearing)

[Guest]

I'm not being disrespectful here, but why is KC's wig completely different to Sara's? They specifically showed Laurel taking Sara's wig and mask and her everything else but suddenly she ends up with a completely different wig that's not even the same shade of blonde?! Same goes with the outfit and the buckles.

 

She should have been wearing Sara's Canary outfit while she makes mistakes and maybe it doesn't quite fit and it feels wrong because she's not the Canary and she's not her sister. And only once she's realized that and miraculously becomes the official BC she gets her own outfit and wig. Right now she looks like she had her very own Sara outfit at home in her closet. Kind of creepy if you ask me.

 

Also they really should black out her eyes in that mask. I know KC asked them not to but it looks weird. Sorry. 

Edited January 26, 2015 by Guest

[apinknightmare]

The lipstick bugs me. So whenever there is a critical issue that needs to be addressed ASAP (e.g. A Villan needs taking down ) AND the clock is ticking.... BC runs to put on her costume but has time to put on lipstick? Really?

I know we would never actually see her putting on the costume. But the thought that she has the "time" to apply lipstick (which is not required to hide her identity Or fight) is irksome. Ugh.

 

I don't really care about the practicalities of applying the lipstick so much. Both Sara and Oliver had/have eyeblack on under the mask that's never explained, and Sara always had on lip gloss. 

 

If they're going to address anything, address that godawful cheap-ass wig. Let Laurel put her actual hair up in a ponytail (I know, not practical) or a bun. That in and of itself would make things look less severe. Ditch the lipstick, because it just looks awful. Go for something softer. Do something about the neck area of that outfit. Everything together is just too much.

[Chaser]

LOL I never put together that Roy's hood was leather. But it doesn't conform right for sure.

[catrox14]

I'm not being disrespectful here, but why is KC's wig completely different to Sara's? They specifically showed Laurel taking Sara's wig and mask and her everything else but suddenly she ends up with a completely different wig that's not even the same shade of blonde?! Same goes with the outfit and the buckles.

 

She should have been wearing Sara's Canary outfit while she makes mistakes and maybe it doesn't quite fit and it feels wrong because she's not the Canary and she's not her sister. And only once she's realized that and miraculously becomes the official BC she gets her own outfit and wig. Right now she looks like she had her very own Sara outfit at home in her closet. Kind of creepy if you ask me.

 

Also they really should black out her eyes in that mask. I know KC asked them not to but it looks weird. Sorry. 

 

That was my gripe in the episode. I mean NOTHING she is wearing is Sara's actual costume. It's either the most stupid lack of continuity or the showrunners don't give a shit that it's completely different as long as it results in LBC.

[Starfish35]

The difference between Oliver's and Roy's costume is that Oliver's hood is made of cloth and Roy's leather which makes him look weird. The leather just does not sit well and something is always sticking out. Plus the whole black grease around the eyes with red mask makes him look like a zombie. Would've been much better if his mask was darker ... close to black and his grease in a lighter shade, like Oliver's.

I think you're right. Just giving him a black mask rather than the red one would help I think.

[dtissagirl]

Sometimes my suspension of disbelief fails me and all I can think of is how much all of this sweaty leather stink up the foundry from the time between taking them off and getting them to the dry cleaners first thing in the morning, every morning.

I mean, they get dry cleaned every morning, right? 'Cause else these PEOPLE are stinking 24/7 along with the leathers.

Edited January 26, 2015 by dancingnancy

[catrox14]

My fanwank is that the storage compartments have some kind of technology that cleans the suits.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[SmallScreenDiva]

LOL I never put together that Roy's hood was leather. But it doesn't conform right for sure.

 

His jacket also looks like it's a bit longer. Which looks really strange because Colton is a short guy. I noticed this in Felicity's episode and they were standing side by side drawing their bows. Oliver's jacket sort of sits on top of his pants. Roy goes much lower. I disagree with Stephen, the recent costumes have been abysmal.

[AyChihuahua]

I like to picture them wrestling the outfits, especially the pants, off the mannequins every single time.  And then wrestling them back on afterwards.  

[Chaser]

It is kinda funny that the answer to how does Laurel get a costume so fast is 'we are pretending it was her sister's all along' and she just stole it.

[apinknightmare]

I like to picture them wrestling the outfits, especially the pants, off the mannequins every single time.  And then wrestling them back on afterwards.  

 

I imagine a lot of this going on: 

 

[dtissagirl]

It is kinda funny that the answer to how does Laurel get a costume so fast is 'we are pretending it was her sister's all along' and she just stole it.

And then not only it changed completely into a totally different outfit, but also fit her perfectly, 'cause that's how used leather pants roll. Maybe that jacket *really* was magic. The sisterhood of the traveling jacket.

[AyChihuahua]

 

I imagine a lot of this going on:

I may love you.

[catrox14]

It is kinda funny that the answer to how does Laurel get a costume so fast is 'we are pretending it was her sister's all along' and she just stole it.

 

That just supports my long time theory that Laurel is mentally ill and is literally trying to become her sister so of course she's going to steal her sister's costume. Or she's just too damn lazy to make her own.

 

The problem is Katie Cassidy is taller, skinnier with different dimensions than Caity Lotz and can't wear the same type of costume that Caity did because they can't make it look like it did on CL.  It's just so stupid.

[dtissagirl]

It amuses me that Roy got a logical explanation for his suit in the 2.5 comics, and the changes Cisco made in Oliver's suit were clearly thought out, including the part about keeping the hood, but the thinking that went into making Laurel's suit is all external to the narrative, just like her storyline only ever advances for external factors.

[Orion]

I agree with the people above that mention the lack of eye black in her mask. It creates a white void around her eyes.  The other problem with the mask is it falls in a bad place on KC's face. The way it is cut highlights the line from her nose along her mouth which ages her and that combined with the dark lipstick gives a ventriloquist doll appearance.

 

Sara's had interesting lines carved into the mask above her brow line which drew your eye up to her eye area and gave the appearance that she was frowning intensely which added to her badass persona.  Whereas KC's mask is just flat black. 

[olicityfan25]

They show her using the weapon a lot. Maybe she's only using that because she obviously can't fight.

[statsgirl]

With Laurel.... I think the dominatrix effect comes from the zipped up to the chin black leather and the dark lipstick and mascara.

For me, it comes from Laurel.

Maybe the point of the wig is if anyone bad guy gets his hands on it, it will just come off and she can escape. The flying hair doesn't make sense though.

 

But nothing, nothing bugs me more than those fingerless gloves, unless we get a scene of Laurel burning off her fingerprints to hide her identity.

 

Sometimes my suspension of disbelief fails me and all I can think of is how much all of this sweaty leather stink up the foundry from the time between taking them off and getting them to the dry cleaners first thing in the morning, every morning.

I mean, they get dry cleaned every morning, right? 'Cause else these PEOPLE are stinking 24/7 along with the leathers.

In my mind, along with all the other equipment Oliver must have teleported down into the basement is a dry cleaning machine.  I just hope Felicity isn't the one who has to clean them though because she's the girl. Give the job to Roy who's the probie.

 

A major problem that I have with Malcolm Merlyn is that since Moira was executed, there hasn't been anyone who could stand up to him and it's been pretty boring to watch him ride roughshod over everyone.   I was hoping Thea would channel her inner Moira  and play him, but no, he's still playing her, not to mention brainwashing her.  Oliver set out to protect him for Thea's set and even now he didn't tell Thea was daddy dearest was up to (i,e, setting her up to be killed by Ra's).

 

The scene with Felicity glad he's on the To Die List and Diggle pulling out a second gun was great though.  I hope they keep that attitude because frankly, right now they're wasting MM and John Barrowman.

[dtissagirl]

Yeah. Imo Moira brought credibility to Malcolm's villain status, because she was his equal. And they would've had to write her as trying to get Thea away from Malcolm. I mean, they should be writing Oliver trying to do that, and chose not to for ~reasons, but Moira? That would have been her entire driving force. And it would have been glorious. Sigh.