Target Practice: Poisoned Arrow (The Bitterness Thread)

[slayer2]

No idea, maybe they trusted Miles/Gough as little as everybody else or it could have had something to do with a Superman movie or they didn't want Lana Lang and Lois Lane imtermingling, it was a strange time. So I'm just wondering what kind of strange stipulations they may have cooked up for this show what with the Batman vs Superman and Justice League movies in production or early stages.

Edited May 23, 2014 by slayer2

[quarks]

Lead actors used to be contracted for a standard five to seven years, but that's changing, and several reports state that the CW is now contracting only for three years with offer to renew for leads, with one year contracts for everyone else. Cassidy was probably signed to a three year contract.

 

The reason I'm wondering what's going on with the contracts/behind the scenes is because although I've seen several people state or argue that the showrunners love Katie Cassidy/Laurel, I'm seeing the direct opposite. I don't think they hate her, exactly, but damseling, marginalizing and otherwise abusing a character, and bringing two rival characters to the forefront in her place, not to mention publicly noting that fans haven't been happy with Laurel or Cassidy's performance, doesn't exactly sound like love to me.

[KirkB]

I know there is a lot of hate for it with some people (not me, I watched and overall enjoyed the entire run) but look at Smallville. Lana got kidnapped in every other episode but it was clear the EP's adored her. Later on they allowed her to become more of an action hero in her own right, even though everyone is obviously going to be overshadowed by Clark. Lois was the daughter of a general and could handle herself, even though she had a tendency to charge headlong into trouble. Both of them served a legitimate purpose on the show, and even when they didn't have a lot of do in an episode they almost always at least helped advance the plot. But most of the time Laurel just seems to be filling up space. She doesn't appear to be a very good lawyer, at least that we've seen, and most of her career advancement seems to occur through either blackmail or death of her superiors.

[statsgirl]

Season 3 is coming up.  With Sara handing her the Jacket of The Canary, maybe this is the 'make or break' year for Laurel if she did get a 3 year contract.

[quarks]

Well, yeah, that's the thing - in Smallville, Lois and Lana always had a role on the show, whatever you may have thought of them as characters. Skye over on Agents of SHIELD also seems to be coming in for a lot of hate, but at least she does stuff, and managed to accomplish a lot of things this season.  None of this is true for Laurel.  She hasn't quite hit the baffling levels of WTF that was Kate on the BBC's Robin Hood (I'm still not clear what anybody was trying to accomplish there) but she's approaching it.

 

And, to be fair, it's very possible that with a role she actually enjoys playing, Cassidy might be fine and Laurel might end up being awesome, which would be great. After all, this show managed to turn Thea around in the second season and seems to be turning Thea around still again in the third season, and the show also got me to like Roy, which is arguably the greatest shock the show has delivered so far, so there's some flickers of hope. 

[KirkB]

She hasn't quite hit the baffling levels of WTF that was Kate on the BBC's Robin Hood (I'm still not clear what anybody was trying to accomplish there) but she's approaching it.

 

 

For me the biggest WTF there was why they decided to kill Marian. I had far less of an issue with Kate. Her only real failing was trying to live up to Djaq. But returning to the subject at hand, every one else has had some degree of character development. Oliver has become an almost completely different person from the one who came back from the island, Diggle and Felicity have thrived because of their association with him, Quentin has a new view of the city and is more open minded, Roy is not the same guy he was before, Thea and Sara are stronger people than when we first met them,but Laurel is pretty much the same character we met in the pilot. Even her struggles with alcohol and drugs haven't had any dramatic changes for her other than she will sometimes go to meetings because of it. I don't hate Laurel, largely because she hasn't done enough on the show to elicit any more of a reaction out of me except for "Oh no, not again."

Edited May 24, 2014 by KirkB

[icandigit]

 

She hasn't quite hit the baffling levels of WTF that was Kate on the BBC's Robin Hood (I'm still not clear what anybody was trying to accomplish there) but she's approaching it.

I forgot all about that. brings back bad memories.

[bluebonnet]

 I don't hate Laurel, largely because she hasn't done enough on the show to elicit any more of a reaction out of me except for "Oh no, not again."

I wish I could get to this point.  I'm totally baffled with myself for actually taking the time to actively hate a character.  It's so unlike me, especially for something as silly as a comic book show.  I watch this show because it's fun and it's comic book stuff and hot abs.  I find myself angry that I may end up turning away from the show because I'm too childish to get over the fact that Laurel and KC's portrayal of her suck to the point of distraction.  So yeah, I need to get to this point where I just have a moderate reaction when I have to see her on screen because it doesnt' look like she's going anywhere and I still want to keep watching the show.  

[catrox14]

 

I wish I could get to this point.  I'm totally baffled with myself for actually taking the time to actively hate a character.  It's so unlike me, especially for something as silly as a comic book show.  I watch this show because it's fun and it's comic book stuff and hot abs.  I find myself angry that I may end up turning away from the show because I'm too childish to get over the fact that Laurel and KC's portrayal of her suck to the point of distraction.  So yeah, I need to get to this point where I just have a moderate reaction when I have to see her on screen because it doesnt' look like she's going anywhere and I still want to keep watching the show.

 

My issue is that Arrow is a great show.  The writers (even if they irk me at times), the production team, the actors, the stunt crew all seem to have upped their collective game considerably since the mid point of s1. They all seem so dedicated to making the best possible show and seem so genuinely excited about in the media as well.  Cassidy, even if she might be giving her all, IMO does not match the game the others are playing and is not even on the same playing field. And it really IMO affects the quality of the show when she becomes a focus of the episode because she seems so out of step with everyone else. Exception being Blackthorne but I put that to Blackthorne more than Cassidy

 

I also get the vague sense that she didn't care to even play the same game until now that she believes she will be the Black Canary.  I find that wholly distasteful. If I were a co-star of hers that would really rub me the wrong way.

 

I can't imagine David Ramsey is all that thrilled about his limited time, but he's out there giving his best wry smile or supportive one liner to Oliver and we love him for it. Because IMO you can see the passion that every other actor seems to have about the show. I'm not saying Cassidy has to be a cheerleader or anything but geez , would it kill her to talk about all her other co-stars and how great they are too?  Or the show in general, not just her part of it? 

 

That's what annoys me.

Edited May 24, 2014 by catrox14

[statsgirl]

While I think the show has wonderful production values and they certainly give it their all in the fight scenes, everyone does, what really worries me is the risk to the narrative that Laurel is.  Sara should stay the Black Canary because even if they kill her off, KC/Laurel is never going to be as good, and I really don't want Laurel to end up as Oliver's love interest because their relationship was false and dysfunctional in the past, and they wouldn't fit together in the present or the future, and I live Oliver too much to stick him with Laurel.

 

Also, the Laurel storylines have taken away too much time from the people I really care about this season.  Hopefully the EPs got the message that Team Arrow is what is worth spending time on, not Lance family drama..

[SleepDeprived]

I don't mean to derail the discussions but is anyone else a little bit bothered by the thread title? Like, may we ask the mods to please edit it to end full-stop at That Arrow was Poisoned!:The Bitterness Thread and remove the "hate on..." parts? I kinda think the stuff in parenthesis implies petulant, childish, or unfounded hateration for certain characters/developments (or lack of) when the majority of the critiques have actually been very well-reasoned and politely discussed.

 

The thread title just kind of throws me off a little and, initially, made me hesitant to even come in and read. It's fine if editing is unnecessary, though. It might just be me being weird about the word play.

[FAU]

 

While I think the show has wonderful production values and they certainly give it their all in the fight scenes, everyone does, what really worries me is the risk to the narrative that Laurel is.

 

 

Also, the Laurel storylines have taken away too much time from the people I really care about this season.  Hopefully the EPs got the message that Team Arrow is what is worth spending time on, not Lance family drama..

 

That's exactly the reason why Laurel makes it worse compared to other annoying characters because she affects the narrative and the other characters and the writers feel the need to cater towards her character while blindly being ignorant of the problems it creates.

[icandigit]

I thought  my hate of Laurel started because she dropped Tommy like a bad habit the moment she found out Oliver had feelings for her. But, I realize that there's more to it than that.  It was what she said. All that "meant to be stuff" she was spewing made me want to throw things at my computer screen. I went for indifference to hatred pretty quickly.

[FAU]

 

I thought  my hate of Laurel started because she dropped Tommy like a bad habit the moment she found out Oliver had feelings for her. But, I realize that there's more to it than that.  It was what she said. All that "meant to be stuff" she was spewing made me want to throw things at my computer screen. I went for indifference to hatred pretty quickly.

 

Exactly, I was more lenient in S1, but the Tommy incident onwards, her character got even worse.

[Sakura12]

I wish I could get to this point.  I'm totally baffled with myself for actually taking the time to actively hate a character.  It's so unlike me, especially for something as silly as a comic book show.  I watch this show because it's fun and it's comic book stuff and hot abs.  I find myself angry that I may end up turning away from the show because I'm too childish to get over the fact that Laurel and KC's portrayal of her suck to the point of distraction.  So yeah, I need to get to this point where I just have a moderate reaction when I have to see her on screen because it doesnt' look like she's going anywhere and I still want to keep watching the show.  

I'm on that boat as well. I didn't like Lana on Smallville but she never really ruined my enjoyment of the show (It wasn't a good show by any means, it kept me entertained most of the time) But with Laurel my hatred of that character is ruining my enjoyment of the show. Enough where I probably won't be watching next season if it's going to be the season of Laurel becoming a hero. I just can't. I have never stopped watching a show because I hated one character but this I might. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

One good thing about not being able to watch the show live is the abilitiy to fast-forward. I've been doing that with most of her scenes (I suffer through the ones with Detective Lance because I really like Paul Blackthorne) and it amazes me how much I actually don't miss about what goes on in the show despite this. Just shows how irrelevant the character is. But if they're focusing on her again this season — and in a much greater degree than they already did last season — then I just might wait until the end of S3 before I even start watching. I've been irritated by characters before but I've never stopped watching one because of them.

[Lisin]

Done and done :) 

[SilverLake0315]

In Heir to the Demon Laurel saw a masked woman and some ninjas kidnap her mother. She may not realize Nyssa was that masked woman.

 

She knows Nyssa was the one who kidnapped Dinah.  She described her to Quentin as "the woman who took Mom".

 

What I cannot figure out if that was not intended that way, why the fuck did they leave it in? Why would the director leave that giddy smile in? Did they just not have enough time to do another take?

 

She said they did several takes and she couldn't stop smiling throughout all of them, right?  Maybe the director tried to get the scene correct, but it wasn't working and they were out of time. 

 

I guess I'd give a similar answer to "why didn't they just cut it differently?"  I just re-watched that scene and there would have been very little they could have used from that scene since KC was smiling like a lunatic for the majority of it...from right after Sara said "I think that this would look good on you" (before Laurel turned around for Sara to put the jacket on her) until after she turned around and said "it fits".

 

- She hasn't read the comics.  Fine.  But then don't refer to the comics as a justification of your character's relationship & destiny with Oliver.

 

THIS.  You can't have your cake and eat it, too, KC.

[wonderwall]

You know, it's funny how Laurel tells the Arrow (not Oliver) that she has always been drawn to him... I feel like she loves the hero and not the man behind the mask. Laurel said that she always knew he could do great things, and that's also a heavy indicator that she doesn't love Oliver for who he is, but she did love him for who he could become. She built this phantom of Oliver in her head that made him seem perfect to her when he clearly wasn't. 

 

At least with Lois, she fell in love with both the man (and his faults) as well as the hero. But I don't see Laurel loving Oliver that way. I feel as though she's deluded herself into thinking that Oliver is some amazing hero but she doesn't actually understand what he's going through. She only sees the surface of who Oliver really is and apparently that's all that matters to her... 

 

This brings me to the point that Laurel/ KC doesn't understand what it means to be a hero. She thinks that a hero is someone who's a 'good-doer' but it's so much more than that. They don't understand the gravity of what Oliver and Sara have been through, the emotional turmoil and internal polarization they suffered through. Both of them have been ripped to shreds and have been carefully sowed back by their partners/loved ones. KC and Laurel don't understand that which is why I can't possibly get behind a romance between Oliver and Laurel and/or Laurel becoming BC... 

[calliope1975]

This brings me to the point that Laurel/ KC doesn't understand what it means to be a hero. She thinks that a hero is someone who's a 'good-doer' but it's so much more than that. They don't understand the gravity of what Oliver and Sara have been through, the emotional turmoil and internal polarization they suffered through. Both of them have been ripped to shreds and have been carefully sowed back by their partners/loved ones.

 

 

I agree. Diggle and Felicity have to deal with grumpy, closed-off Oliver on a daily basis. They've both managed to find the good in him, and have helped him on his way to becoming a hero. Even Roy has had to deal with asshole Oliver - he did take a arrow to the leg. I still don't think Laurel yet knows who Oliver is or was, and if it were written correctly, could be a very interesting wake up call that she not only doesn't know Oliver/Arrow now, she never knew who he really was. 

[ostentatious]

When she was grinning like a fool Caity was looking at her like, are you for real? It was like she was trying to contain her incredulity at how obvious KC was being.

[wonderwall]

The problem with Laurel when she found out that Oliver was the vigilante was that she didn't say "who are you? I'd like to get to know this new you", this would've been far more believable than the "I still know you better than anyone else" spiel she likes so much... Felicity and Digg have been around him 24/7 for the past year and they still don't even pretend to know all of Oliver because, really, who actually knows someone that well? Even though they don't know him as well, they still find a way to help him make himself the best version of himself. They don't delude themselves into thinking that Oliver is already that perfect man that Laurel thinks so... 

[icandigit]

So did Oliver have Laurel be his lawyer because he knew she would be so firm in her conviction that he couldn't be the arrow? 

[FAU]

The problem with Laurel when she found out that Oliver was the vigilante was that she didn't say "who are you? I'd like to get to know this new you", this would've been far more believable than the "I still know you better than anyone else" spiel she likes so much... Felicity and Digg have been around him 24/7 for the past year and they still don't even pretend to know all of Oliver because, really, who actually knows someone that well? Even though they don't know him as well, they still find a way to help him make himself the best version of himself. They don't delude themselves into thinking that Oliver is already that perfect man that Laurel thinks so... 

 

Exactly, what she's spewing is complete nonsense, he's been cheating behind her back, got another girl knocked, was with her own sister and even asked her to move in together not to long ago, etc.

 

I also have a problem with the way she's pushed herself onto Oliver and the team, her rudeness also didn't help.

[Danny Franks]

The problem with Laurel when she found out that Oliver was the vigilante was that she didn't say "who are you? I'd like to get to know this new you", this would've been far more believable than the "I still know you better than anyone else" spiel she likes so much... Felicity and Digg have been around him 24/7 for the past year and they still don't even pretend to know all of Oliver because, really, who actually knows someone that well? Even though they don't know him as well, they still find a way to help him make himself the best version of himself. They don't delude themselves into thinking that Oliver is already that perfect man that Laurel thinks so... 

 

Felicity and Diggle know him enough to know that they don't really know him. You know? Both of them have spent so much time with him, and have heard so much about his past and his motivations, but would probably say that he's still a mystery, much of the time. He's shared a lot with them, and I think they could both predict what path of action he'd take, at any given time, but there's still so much to learn.

 

Laurel, sadly, does not seem to have that level of awareness. She went from stunned (is that what KC was going for?) when Slade told her, to suddenly 'knowing him like her own name'. And then she ends up being an afterthought at her own kidnapping, because this connection she thinks exists is really only in her own head, and in the past. I wish the writers would just let her move on and give her something worthwhile to do that isn't muscling in on Team Arrow territory. Make her DA? Sure. Whatever. It's as realistic as anything else they've had her do.

[Password]

So did Oliver have Laurel be his lawyer because he knew she would be so firm in her conviction that he couldn't be the arrow? 

 

That is actually a really good question. I think you're right too because then he wouldn't have the problem of convincing her he isn't when some things start adding up.

[bluebonnet]

So did Oliver have Laurel be his lawyer because he knew she would be so firm in her conviction that he couldn't be the arrow? 

LOL.  Major issue they have with Laurel is failing to convince us of intent.  I think the intent here was meant to be something about twu wuv or Ollie demonstrating his absolute faith in her as a lawyer or maybe even one of those "everydays" that Oliver wanted to tell Laurel about him being the vigilante.  Or something.  It didn't come off that way at all.  It ended up making Laurel look dumb and like a terrible lawyer because she wasn't able to convince her client to take her advice nor was she able to sift through the evidence and ask Ollie pointed questions.  She pointed out that he lied about at least one question so it's not like she was completely fooled.  Plus, he ended up getting himself off the hook.  The only thing she actually offered was ensuring he was released on house arrest, though he already had a plan to ask Diggle to fill in for the Hood, so were we really supposed to think that Oliver wouldn't have been able to talk his way out of being in jail and unable to speak to Diggle privately?  The dude wiggled his way into speaking privately with Helena.  I have a feeling even if he were in jail overnight, he would have figured out just the right amount of money that would enable him to talk to Diggle.  

[SilverLake0315]

So did Oliver have Laurel be his lawyer because he knew she would be so firm in her conviction that he couldn't be the arrow?

 

I'm re-watching season 1, so I'll have to check to be sure, but didn't Oliver even say something along these lines?  He wanted her to represent him because she'd never believe he could care enough about the city to be the vigilante?  Have I totally fabricated this in my head?  lol 

[icandigit]

 

She pointed out that he lied about at least one question so it's not like she was completely fooled.

I never got why that was the thing she noticed and got mad about. Out of everything really? Dude just confessed to being tortured. And there's no way he could forget some trip to the prison. Just a weird lie to mad about. He's been lying to her the whole time she's known him. Now she notices because of that?

[Password]

How did that scene go? They asked him if he's been to that prison and he says no. She confronts him and says they went there for a school trip and that she noticed the little blip on the graph. Didn't she get mad because she thought he's lying about the other things? I.e. being the vigilante.

[icandigit]

I honestly have no idea. The whole thing confused me. I guess since the prison question came up as him not lying, she realized he could trick the lie detector test. Or was that an episode of psych. I'm making myself more confused.

[Password]

Something funny I realised about the first time I saw Felicity in the 4th episode in a scene with Walter, then the next with Walter again, is that I saw her as a threat to Oliver and Laurel getting together. The first time I watched Arrow was the 4th and 5th episode and I didn't even get to see her interaction with Oliver, but I liked her so much I thought she and Oliver could get together. How do they have chemistry and they're not even in the same SCENE TOGETHER!!!

 

I think we're overthinking that scene now but I really thought it's because she saw that blip and thought he's lying and could lie about other things. She saw the scars and didn't ask too many questions, a trend on the show. Doesn't anyone notice when Oliver is out of town the vigilante and now Arrow are out of comission too?

[tv echo]

In Season 1, Laurel was supposed to be Oliver's great love and the one who always knew there was good in him even when he was being pre-island asshole Oliver.  In Season 2, Laurel is still supposed to be - at least according to her - the one who knows him best.

 

The problem is, if all that was true, then Laurel would have immediately suspected that Oliver was the vigilante as soon as the vigilante started appearing in Starling City.  To everyone else, Oliver used to be and still was the asshole; therefore, he could never be the vigilante who helps people.  To Laurel, if she really knew him and always thought there was good in him, then she alone should have thought of Oliver as maybe being the vigilante.  Instead, she's one of the last of his close circle of people to know - and only because Slade tells her.

 

Also, in Season 2, we find out that the Oliver-Laurel great love story wasn't really all that great.  Laurel hooks up with Oliver only after finding out her sister Sara was interested in him.  Laurel deludes herself with this fantasy of them living together happily ever after.  Pre-island Oliver cheats on her with multiple others.  Island and post-island Oliver sleeps with Sara, Shado, Helena, McKenna, Laurel, Isabel, and Sara again.

 

The show is about the evolution of Oliver from asshole to hero.  He himself has said that, 5 years ago, he was a completely different person.  The person he is now - that person is someone Laurel does not know at all.

[fantique]

I wanna start by saying I don't do character bashing and I hate crossing it over to the actor. But in this case the problem in her perception is both the writing and the interpretation. I feel no particular feelings towards Katie Cassidy.

I am feeling really sad they let this problem deteriorate. Just watched a video with KC and it does feel like she is passionate on some things but Arrow is just not one of them. She needs to be more into the show as a whole. This is a creative profession, passion is pretty much a requirement. The EPs + writers have been so good about almost everything else. They need to deal with this. I would even accept discontinuity regarding her character's development(?) at this point if it meant we can stand her. Why can't she just be a great lawyer on the side of the Arrow, she would be so freaking useful then. As ADA she would falicitate what I believe will soon be coming; an arrangement between the police and the Arrow. Also, no more kidnapping to show how she affects Ollie and her now worsening hero worship. Just too boring.

Someone needs to sit KC down and have a talk. I do think that some of the things she says in interviews are without the ok from the showrunners. She is expecting to be BC and can't separate her personal interests and the show's interests. And she looks shifty everytime she is asked about reading comic books, she obviously is lying about having read GA because she would know how unstable the GA/BC relationship is. If she was a minor character that didn't affect my favourite dynamics in the show, I would just ignore her but it's a problem because it guarantees to mess with what I feel most like about the show. Seriously, I didn't think I would see this much hate towards a character that is not Joffrey of GoT.

[Danny Franks]

I am feeling really sad they let this problem deteriorate. Just watched a video with KC and it does feel like she is passionate on some things but Arrow is just not one of them. She needs to be more into the show as a whole. This is a creative profession, passion is pretty much a requirement. The EPs + writers have been so good about almost everything else. They need to deal with this.

 

 

It's really a chicken and egg question, I think. Was she lacking in passion from the start, which led to her lacklustre performances and a muddled character, or is her lack of passion a result of the writers bungling everything they've given her to do? Either way, I agree that it's a problem that will not be solved by just shoving her at the viewers and shouting, 'like her! She's awesome!' I really don't believe there is a way to salvage Laurel Lance, now. She's been usurped in pretty much every role she has in the show, and trying to have her claim any of those roles back will go down like a lead balloon.

[Sakura12]

Joffrey's a love to hate type of character. Laurel is just a hated character. There is a difference. 

 

They've had 2 seasons to fix Laurel and haven't. I don't think another season is going to make her likable especially if other characters get shoved out of the way to make that happen. 

[fantique]

Joffrey's a love to hate type of character. Laurel is just a hated character. There is a difference. 

 

They've had 2 seasons to fix Laurel and haven't. I don't think another season is going to make her likable especially if other characters get shoved out of the way to make that happen. 

I meant the intensity of the hate but that's true... I actually miss Joffrey because at least there was satisfaction in hating him. BUT I never sped forward through his scenes, something I do frequently with Lauren. And it is chicken and egg question (at least from our perspective) so hopefully her contract ends next season and her demise (with guaranteed impossibility to return). I just feel that if she is on the screen (and I feel she will be there for important moments) then they might as well try not to make it painful (for us) so when (crossed fingers) she dies, we are more sad for Ollie and Det. Lance than just relieved she GTFO.

 

ETA: Joffrey was obviously meants to be hated whereas Laurel was written to be liked so I guess that's another difference although that points to the efficacity of characterisation really.

Edited May 28, 2014 by fantique

[Sakura12]

Yes, we were meant to hate Joffrey. I think the intensity of the hate for a love to hate character is different from the I hate this character get them off my screen type of hate. Joffrey added things to his scenes and to the story and I was waiting to see what that sadistic bastard was going to do next. He was also played beautifully by Jack Gleeson. 

 

Joffrey was there to serve a purpose, Laurel is not. I suppose she had a purpose in the beginning but her purpose was given to not one but 2 other characters. So she became unnecessary. She was absent for most of this season, then suddenly she's just being forced into the narrative. I mean actually forced too, she pushed Sara out of the way and forces herself onto Team Arrow. I don't see how the writers think that, that's going to make people like Laurel. The only ones that do are the ones that already liked her and those are the fans that want Laurel to be the BC because the comics say she is. (My thing is still the BC never went by Laurel. She was always Dinah. So if the character isn't even going by her true name, why do we need her to the BC?)

 

I know not everyone can be Tatiana Maslany (whose own mother forgets her daughter is playing all the characters) but she's someone that has a lot of passion for her craft and wow does it show in her acting. Acting is skill that needs to be worked at, you can't just go in there and read lines and expect people to buy you as that character. You have to be that character, even if you have to make up motivations for them. The writers create the character, it's the actors job to bring that character to life.

 

KC has admitted she can't separate herself from the character, so I don't know why she's in that business if she's unable to do that. The entire point of acting is to be someone other than yourself. 

Edited May 28, 2014 by Sakura12

[Morrigan2575]

Not sure where to put this but figured I'd drop it in here.

http://lemonsandblueberries.tumblr.com/post/86863383431/katie-cassidy-at-motor-city-comic-con

When asked about Paul Blackthorne, she said that he better not die and to write to the CW to tell them to keep him on the show forever and forever. Then she also added, ‘and tell them to also keep Katie Cassidy on the show forever and forever’.

She could probably just be joking but with all the talk (here) about Contracts it made me wonder if she's putting herself out there now because her contract is up for renewal? Edited May 28, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[doesntworkonwood]

@Sakura12 Sorry to but in but your reference reminded me that over on tumblr someone said 'Arrow needs Laurel like Tatiana Maslany needs acting lessons.' and it amused me. 

[Zalyn]

I have to join the Jack Gleeson love train; I hear that he would apologize to other actors after particularly douchey scenes.  Too bad he's quitting acting, but I'm psyched that he wants to be a philosopher. 
 

Not sure where to put this but figured I'd drop it in here.

http://lemonsandblueberries.tumblr.com/post/86863383431/katie-cassidy-at-motor-city-comic-con

She could probably just be joking but with all the talk (here) about Contracts it made me wonder if she's putting herself out there now because her contract is up for renewal?

The next quote got me:

She also said that Laurel is the heart of the show because she is the most relatable/human character on there and that’s what keeps the show grounded after someone called Laurel a crybaby

*crickets*

Edited May 28, 2014 by Zalyn

[Sakura12]

@Sakura12 Sorry to but in but your reference reminded me that over on tumblr someone said 'Arrow needs Laurel like Tatiana Maslany needs acting lessons.' and it amused me. 

That was me, I said that on TWOP, I may have said here too. I have a Tatiana Maslany obsession right now. 

Edited May 28, 2014 by Sakura12

[Zalyn]

That was me, I said that on TWOP, I may have said here too. I have a Tatiana Maslany obsession right now. 

Here, have an internet, because you won one with that comment (I saw it before and loved it too).  I am saving Orphan Black for a time when I can binge watch it, because it sounds totally awesome.

 

Orphan Black brings up a good point for me - Laurel just doesn't exist as her own character, despite being "the female lead" (according to various entities of the show, not me), and she should.  At the start, she was a lawyer helping people, then lost that.  Then she became Tommy's gf and source of angst and jealousy between Tommy and Oliver.  Then she became her dad's problem with the drugs, for him to show how much he's recovered since S1.  And she ends S2 as the recipient of Sara/Canary's jacket.  She is defined by others, and that means she doesn't stand on her own as a character.  As other characters gain depth, Laurel keeps losing depth over time, which shouldn't happen in long-arc television shows.

 

What does Laurel want? What does Laurel like?  Why did she become a lawyer? I don't feel like I know any of this, and it's fine for a side character, but I don't want an empty shell shoved down my throat as a "lead" or "endgame romance."

[bluebonnet]

Ok, I'm confused about that link.  Did Katie Cassidy say the whole "Laurel is the heart of the show/most relateable character"?  Or did a fan say this?  It's so hard to imagine that KC could be this delusional, but maybe she is?  I'm willing to give this the benefit of the doubt, until I see other sources from the comic con.  I mean, that's seriously delusional. 

[catrox14]

How did we get to a comparison of Joffrey and Laurel?  Joffrey is written and acted to be a detestable, reprehensible character (and both are done quite well).  Now if you're telling me that Laurel has actually been a villain all this time, well kudos to the writers and the actor because that would actually make it all work.  Alas, they aren't writing her to be a villain, and KC is acting in ways that don't fit the scenes in general.

 

It's not a hate of the character per se as much the disappointment I have because everything else in general with Arrow is top notch and her poor characterization in both writing and acting is IMO a detriment to the show.  So unless they can fix her without destroying the current Black Canary's legacy, fine, she can stay but don't give her a lot to do.  And IMO based on the preceding two seasons I can't see how they are going to expect me to buy into her being the big thing now.  So I'd rather she just depart the show or have a different role with limited screen time. 

[doesntworkonwood]

@Sakura12 Everyone has a Tatiana Maslany obsession, she's the epitome of perfection :D

@Zalyn You're completely right about Laurel being defined by other characters. They really messed up her entire story line from the first episode. I genuinely think that if she hadn't known Oliver pre-island, she'd have been able to stand on her own two feet more and would have been received by fans far better. When she came on, her only role seemed to be that of a love interest which, when coupled with the lack of chemistry between SA and KC, very quickly wore thin. 

[Sakura12]

Here, have an internet, because you won one with that comment (I saw it before and loved it too).  I am saving Orphan Black for a time when I can binge watch it, because it sounds totally awesome.

 

Orphan Black is definitely better binge watched. You'll forget even more that one actress makes up most of the cast. I was just amused to find out that Tatiana's mother forgets that. Or when the actress that plays Delphine said that when she finally got to work with another clone she felt like she lost her friend. Those are both well deserved praise for an actress that puts her all into her work. 

 

That was always my problem with Laurel, she doesn't feel real. I don't see her as a character on this show. She's just kind of there. That's why it distracts me, I'm taken out of the show when she's on screen. I started having to think that Laurel was on another boring show that kept randomly interrupting Arrow. 

[icandigit]

 

I started having to think that Laurel was on another boring show that kept randomly interrupting Arrow.

I think the most the creators can do for me at this point is make sure the show is set up so I can fast forward through her scenes.

[SilverLake0315]

My issue has always been that I don't feel like I'm watching a character named Laurel...I feel like I'm watching Katie Cassidy "acting".  Everyone else on the show sucks me into their character and I completely forget that the person isn't real.  That just doesn't happen with Laurel.  Like Sakura said, she doesn't feel real.

[Danny Franks]

She also said that Laurel is the heart of the show because she is the most relatable/human character on there and that’s what keeps the show grounded after someone called Laurel a crybaby

 

 

 

Seriously, whoever said that is just not in touch with reality. There is almost nothing about Laurel Lance that I can relate to. I'm not blaming Katie Cassidy for that entirely, because the awful writing for her character is a large reason that she's so bafflingly unlikeable, but the end result is the same.