Cold Justice - General Discussion

[Tabbygirl521]

1 hour ago, Ellee said:

I’m watching yesterday’s episode.  Kittie Koseck.  What she and her family went through!  

I try to look up these cases after the show airs. I can’t find anything on this one.  

Isn’t it odd? All I can find is http://www.unresolvedhomicides.org/victim/koseck-kittie-sue/

It doesn’t really expand much on what we learned last night. I was hoping to find some indication that a murder charge was filed. It’s hard to say what actual evidence could be produced for a trial, though, even though it seems 1000% obvious that this piece of crap killed his wife. 

I never wanted so much to be able to reach into the TV and pound someone senseless. I wonder whatever happened to the three younger kids, after the older ones tried so hard to protect them after Kittie was killed. And how completely infuriating that the sexual assault charges didn’t stick. 

[Ellee]

I thought the father was living close to one of the daughters.   If she has children she better not ever leave her father alone with them. 
 

Was that Kittie’s son in the show or was that a husband?  

[BookWitch]

I think the POS was living somewhere in Montana. Of course he tried to play himself as the victim. What floored me was the kids talking about his parents coming to help clean up the crime scene! WTF?  

The legal system in that town failed the kids completely. 

[Ellee]

28 minutes ago, BookWitch said:

I think the POS was living somewhere in Montana. Of course he tried to play himself as the victim. What floored me was the kids talking about his parents coming to help clean up the crime scene! WTF?  

The legal system in that town failed the kids completely. 

All of the above!

I just find it so hard to believe that no one, absolutely no one stepped up.  Could they have been that scared of him?
 

It reminds me of that woman that killed her husband.  Not one person had a good thing to say about her.   She even threatened a police officer.  And finally the officials are looking in to her 13 year old daughters suicide by gun.  Can’t think of her name but she was 84 when she went to jail. 
 

ETA Norma Allbritton

Edited April 26, 2020 by Ellee

[SandyToes]

I just watched Kittie's case. Oh, my, Kelly.  It was tough to watch. I'm one of those that if you cry, I cry. But I held it together.  UNTIL Kelly mentioned that they were talking to the family on Mothers' Day.  Man.  Her poor parents.  Her poor Daddy (we didn't really see Mom).  To bring ALL that pain back up. I'm sure the pain always exist, but after that many years, it is tucked safely (?) away. And then to have it all relived, so vividly.  I did like how they approached it from both sides - could it be a suicide, or could it be murder. Many times suicide victims DON'T telegraph it in advance, and it IS a surprise.  But despite how miserable Kittie's life was, I don't think that was the case (not withstanding the evidence), because she had positive things in her life, and I can't imagine she'd leave those kids in his hands.  Also - did they interview the affair/boyfriend? Did anyone know who it was? Awfully small town.

It's a circumstantial case, as they most always are, but I sure think there's enough to convict. I know prosecutors won't indict unless they think they can win (lest the scumbag be acquitted and then free forever), but I think this one looks good.  If they held the family meeting on Mothers' Day, that was last year.  One year ago. SURELY something has moved since then?!

Oh -and I think the other gentleman was her brother.  Her parents were there (at least her dad), a sister and brother, and then the three daughters.  I, too, wonder about the other three children. Hopefully they were raised by someone else?!

Kelly apologizing to the girls for the system failing them on the abuse allegations....  no words.

Edited April 26, 2020 by SandyToes

[CrazyInAlabama]

The wait from filing charges, or indictment to trial varies according to location.   I lived near where one case happened (Columbus, GA) and there the wait is two years until trial starts, or even longer sometimes.  

[Calamity Jane]

9 hours ago, Ellee said:

I’m watching yesterday’s episode.  Kittie Koseck.  What she and her family went through!  

I try to look up these cases after the show airs. I can’t find anything on this one.  

I sense so much more behind this one. It’s pretty clear that the sleaze ball of a husband was being shielded at some level. Were his parents important in the community?  Was there a religious group protecting him?  It just seems weird, even twenty-six years ago, that he would not even be investigated for any of all that. Maybe just good-old-boyism, but there’s something else going on there. What a horrible story. 

[Vermicious Knid]

I too wondered that, and especially if he was friends with the previous sheriff. And with so many changes in child sex assault laws if there's any way to nail him still.

[Ellee]

At least in last nights episode they came right out and said that the interview could not be shown. 
 

Hope that the 5 involved get their just desserts.  Even the one that turned his life somewhat around.  I wouldn’t be opposed though for a deal to be made with him as long as he was not the shooter.   And there better not be one for the woman arrested ... she set it all in motion. 

[SandyToes]

On 4/26/2020 at 4:27 PM, Calamity Jane said:

Were his parents important in the community?  Was there a religious group protecting him?  It just seems weird, even twenty-six years ago, that he would not even be investigated for any of all that. Maybe just good-old-boyism, but there’s something else going on there. What a horrible story. 

I had the same feeling.  Some connection between his parents and local law enforcement.  Or him.  Somehow, somewhere, some type of "look the other way-i-ness."

[Vermicious Knid]

Those two witnesses must have critical information the police are holding back. And half of what was written on the murder board was blurred out too. Why didn't they arrest those four at the time for at least robbery?

[Uliej]

Daniel Koseck
in Atlantic City, WY (Wyoming)

Age 66

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[SandyToes]

Dunno if this is allowed or not, but a locally famous "Kelly case" convicted killer was released this week.  I remember the case at the time, and the "theatrics" of this case.  Interesting to see her in action - pretty much like we see her on the show now!  Still thinking like a prosecutor. 

The link with the video of her is about 40 minutes long, and interesting to watch.

https://abc13.com/housewife-who-stabbed-husband-193-times-released-from-prison/9210573/

[SandyToes]

I have looked EVERYWHERE for the forum/discussion on Yolanda's show the other night - the Jane Doe Murders.  Anyone else talking about it? 

[Ellee]

7 hours ago, SandyToes said:

I have looked EVERYWHERE for the forum/discussion on Yolanda's show the other night - the Jane Doe Murders.  Anyone else talking about it? 

Acckk. I missed it.  Was it good?  

[KHenry14]

6 hours ago, Ellee said:

Acckk. I missed it.  Was it good?  

It was really interesting. The process that they went through to identify the victim was long but fascinating. But the thing is, this was more of a genealogy show than a crime show. It was nice to see Yolanda reunite family members, but it would be better to have her work pay off in an arrest. 

[SandyToes]

8 hours ago, Ellee said:

Acckk. I missed it.  Was it good?  

I thought it was really good, and very interesting. It's almost like the case should now be handed off to Kelly!  I cannot imagine the not knowing, for or so long.  

Spoiler

Daughter Candice posted in a Cold Justice fb group that the suspect has been questioned and the case is going to the Grand Jury.  She said they are hoping for an arrest this month!

 

[Ellee]

I won’t miss this week’s and I imagine they will rerun last week’s.

Yolanda will always be a part of this show so maybe we can talk about it here?

[CrazyMoon]

On 1/5/2021 at 10:48 AM, KHenry14 said:

It was really interesting. The process that they went through to identify the victim was long but fascinating. But the thing is, this was more of a genealogy show than a crime show. It was nice to see Yolanda reunite family members, but it would be better to have her work pay off in an arrest. 

I loved it...loved it...loved it! It's a painstaking process with very patient, dedicated workers...the attention to detail is so over the top. The first sketch was such a close match to the woman...I didn't see future episodes scheduled...this first episode will be shown again Thursday & Friday...check the Oxygen schedule for your time.

[Lovecat]

On 1/6/2021 at 9:34 PM, CrazyMoon said:

I loved it...loved it...loved it! It's a painstaking process with very patient, dedicated workers...the attention to detail is so over the top. The first sketch was such a close match to the woman...I didn't see future episodes scheduled...this first episode will be shown again Thursday & Friday...check the Oxygen schedule for your time.

I think it may have been a one-off; our DVR malfunctioned and didn't record the first airing, so we watched it On Demand and found it under "Specials."  I'd speculate that it was maybe a backdoor pilot for a future series, but it seems that this investigation alone took the better part of a year or longer, so I'm not sure how sustainable it would be for a series.  Then again, it was called The Jane Doe MurderS, and we only saw one victim...?  Maybe it's going to be a series of occasional specials, vs. a weekly?  In any case, it was so, SO good.  My husband and I love true crime, genealogy, AND long-lost relative stories, so we stayed up past our bedtime, glued to the teevee.  

[Vermicious Knid]

I liked it, but would have preferred the investigation of her murder to be longer than 5 minutes worth. I also tried to see if it was a series, some pages did have it listed that way but Oxygen's website had it labeled as a special.

Really tragic how the family history repeated exactly for a second generation.

[KHenry14]

Season 6 started tonight. The guilt is written all over the widow and her mother, but they only arrested the one guy. My thought is he might get a deal if he can implicate either of those two. 

[Ellee]

Every word out of the mother’s mouth when she was talking to Abby and the detective said ‘we are all guilty.”  
 

Angel did it but the wife, her mom and probably her dad were in on it. 
 

Angel’s sister is probably afraid to talk with Jody and Jan running free. 

[CrazyMoon]

I'm wondering when Angel gets closer to trial if he will opt for a plea bargain and throw Jodie (mastermind) & Jan (accomplice) under the bus. 

As soon as they said Angel went back to work a the towing company after Jerry died I knew they all were in on the murder. 

[mythoughtis]

4 hours ago, CrazyMoon said:

I'm wondering when Angel gets closer to trial if he will opt for a plea bargain and throw Jodie (mastermind) & Jan (accomplice) under the bus. 

As soon as they said Angel went back to work a the towing company after Jerry died I knew they all were in on the murder. 

Yes. Anyone with children that would hire a man who had sex with a 14 year old has a reason for it.   
On top of that, they denied the children a relationship with their paternal relatives.  
I’m not saying that Jerry was perfect… but you get a divorce, you don’t murder him in his sleep. 

[CrazyMoon]

4 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

Yes. Anyone with children that would hire a man who had sex with a 14 year old has a reason for it.   
On top of that, they denied the children a relationship with their paternal relatives.  
I’m not saying that Jerry was perfect… but you get a divorce, you don’t murder him in his sleep. 

And then we'll see Jodie on an episode of "Snapped"...

 

[Ellee]

5 hours ago, CrazyMoon said:

I'm wondering when Angel gets closer to trial if he will opt for a plea bargain and throw Jodie (mastermind) & Jan (accomplice) under the bus. 

As soon as they said Angel went back to work a the towing company after Jerry died I knew they all were in on the murder. 

Exactly.  Especially when Jan said that he doesn’t always show up for work.   Everybody has a job that they show up when they want. 
 

When the detectives were asking the 3 of them questions, their body language and looks at each other said it all.  
 

Angel will turn on them at the right time.  Or maybe the women will make calls to him while he’s in prison and we can get it all recorded and they can be part of a Cold Justice update. 

[Ellee]

Steven Felts. 
 

Sounded like he was a nice guy.  He realized his wife was going to kill him and said so.  
 

Does anyone think the deceased suspect actually did the murder or was it Steven’s wife?

Wonder why Steven’s daughter said nothing?  

[mythoughtis]

3 hours ago, Ellee said:

Steven Felts. 
 

Sounded like he was a nice guy.  He realized his wife was going to kill him and said so.  
 

Does anyone think the deceased suspect actually did the murder or was it Steven’s wife?

Wonder why Steven’s daughter said nothing?  

I believe they thought the deceased friend was there and at the very least dragged Steven to the couch. I don’t know if they know who pulled the trigger. 

The daughter was six at the time and was asleep when the police were called.  It’s possible that she  and mom were gone ( building an alibi) and she thought Daddy was asleep with a pillow over his head when she got back. 
If you google Linette  Felts, you will find a civil suit document from 2004 brought by the sister  that has interesting info in it. The sister lost in appeal. 

[SunnyBeBe]

No doubt Felts knew what his wife was up to and his fear was well placed.  What I don’t get is why people in danger don’t take action.  Most people in a domestic violence situation know it.  They tell others, leave notes, stress their concern, yet they stay in the home and stay in jeopardy.  It’s so frustrating.  
 

Since the 1990’s, there is no reason for this to happen. There’s plenty of information out there about danger. AND, if you are afraid of being killed, why not CHANGE the beneficiary on your life insurance policy and notify them it’s been changed! That would remove a big reason for them to murder you.  I have empathy, but I really wish people would think it through.  
 

When clients consult with me, I advise them immediately to do certain things, like hiding for safety and letting the beneficiary of the life insurance policy know they are removed AND they will be a prime  suspect, if their spouse is murdered.  Put them on notice!  

Edited July 19, 2021 by SunnyBeBe

[cynicat]

6 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

No doubt Felts knew what his wife was up to and his fear was well placed.  What I don’t get is why people in danger don’t take action.  Most people in a domestic violence situation know it.  They tell others, leave notes, stress their concern, yet they stay in the home and stay in jeopardy.  It’s so frustrating.  

Agree, however I imagine it's one of those things you think may happen but aren't 100% certain because, that's too insane to wrap your brain around.  He was in the process of leaving--he transferred money into his personal account, and was likely planning/changing other things so he could leave soon.  He probably also wanted to make sure he got custody of his daughter.

[SunnyBeBe]

When you think your life is in danger due to financial gain, you might want to remove the incentive.  Very sad. I hope those responsible get justice. 

[Ellee]

A grandson murders his 91 year old grandmother and 23 years later he gets charged.  I have to wonder what his 23 years of freedom were like. Did he end his drug use?   Was he constantly breaking the law?  Could he even look his mother in the eyes or could she even look at him?

[CrazyMoon]

On 7/25/2021 at 6:31 AM, Ellee said:

A grandson murders his 91 year old grandmother and 23 years later he gets charged.  I have to wonder what his 23 years of freedom were like. Did he end his drug use?   Was he constantly breaking the law?  Could he even look his mother in the eyes or could she even look at him?

Wanda was still in denial during her interview. She knew, just couldn't face it. They said it tore the family apart. So they go to arrest Sergio "You're under arrest"..."Huh? For what?"..."The murder of your grandmother in 1998"..."Oh"...I don't think his last 23 years were all that and a bag of chips...he was still hiding and not living a regular life.

 

[Ellee]

If I knew my child murdered my mother (or anyone else) there would be no debate as to who would receive the first phone call.  I wouldn’t be able to live with myself.   

[Vermicious Knid]

New episodes finished already?

I watched the reruns that were tagged as new because they had pop-up info and comments. So many of them were from 2018 and 2019 and I was really dismayed they had no updates, 'The DA's office continues to investigate'.

[CrazyMoon]

They'll be back in November

[SunnyBeBe]

I just watched what was called a new episode. Was it?

[Sile]

6 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I just watched what was called a new episode. Was it?

If it was the one about Candance Prunty in Ohio, I believe it was.

[chenoa333]

17 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I just watched what was called a new episode. Was it?

This is from my experience with various cable providers: some will list the episode info as the current date they are airing it. However that might not be the "original" air date. Some cable providers will list the date the episode was originally aired. 

I really like this series and I watch it often. I think the Candance Prunty episode was new. 

[Cyranetta]

One of the media news sources I see said that new episodes would begin this Saturday.

 

[Sile]

12 hours ago, chenoa333 said:

This is from my experience with various cable providers: some will list the episode info as the current date they are airing it. However that might not be the "original" air date. Some cable providers will list the date the episode was originally aired. 

I really like this series and I watch it often. I think the Candance Prunty episode was new. 

The thing about that is that when they package an old show with new commentary or "extras" the original broadcast date changes to the current one.

That's really the one problem I have with all of the 'expanded' 'supersized' 'updated' etc. shows.  They all show up as new and I'm constantly deleting dozens of shows I've already seen.  Dr. Pimple Popper and My 600 lb Lire (along with Cold Justice this last year) are the worst.  I don't need to wade through a bunch of episodes I've already seen just to see a pop up that informs me for the millionth time that Kelly is a former prosecutor or to hear somebody give yet another line about how their lipoma makes life unbearable.

[Ellee]

Re: Marie Altidor

 

Killed a 6 week old, a 2 year old, their mom and grandma!!!  Sounds like the father and his girlfriend did it.  Not enough evidence yet to charge him/them but I hope LE get there soon. 
 

I’ll be interested to see what you all have to say. 

Edited January 4, 2022 by Ellee

[mythoughtis]

On 1/2/2022 at 3:17 PM, Ellee said:

Re: Marie Altidor

 

Killed a 6 week old, a 2 year old, their mom and grandma!!!  Sounds like the father and his girlfriend did it.  Not enough evidence yet to charge him/them but I hope LE get their soon. 
 

I’ll be interested to see what you all have to say. 

I agree that it seemed that the girlfriend called the godmother.  So Mamie promised to call when the baby was born. The baby was six weeks old and  she hadn’t called yet.  There was no reason then to call at 7:09 am.  Especially when she and the godmother talked so seldom that the godmother had to ask who it was because she didn’t recognize the voice but then took it at face value that it was Mamie. 
I also think the murders took place at night, negating the husbands alibi.  The rest of that house was clean and orderly, yet the leftover dinner was still on the stove?  Grandma would have cleaned that meal up after dinner. 

[SandyToes]

That story was just so heartbreaking.  I cannot imagine what it must take to murder two small children that way - and the 2-year old sounds like she was hiding! 

I found this season's cases frustrating in that so many seemed to end with the DA's office "considering" or evaluating the cases.  (And that so many of the ones from the past year or two where arrests WERE made have been paused due to Covid.) I realize that with cold cases there usually is not a lot of hard evidence, and that prosecutors must really mostly on circumstantial evidence.  Further, since they want to make sure they can GET a conviction, I know they don't proceed until they feel confident that they will.  But it makes for frustrating TV.  I like the confession cases!!   But I love my hometown girl Kelly, and love listening to her familiar twang.  And her passion!  Goodness.  That we could all be that passionate about our jobs!

[GeorgiaRai]

Re: Marie Altidor

Was there no estimated time of death established in the original investigation?  Stomach contents especially would have been telling, it seems.

I don't understand why the phone call was treated as an absolute roadblock when the recipient couldn't positively identify the caller as Marie, and said that the call was unusual & out of character.

Truly a heartbreaking case. 

[LuvMyShows]

 

On 1/4/2022 at 2:55 PM, GeorgiaRai said:

Was there no estimated time of death established in the original investigation?  Stomach contents especially would have been telling, it seems.

I don't understand why the phone call was treated as an absolute roadblock when the recipient couldn't positively identify the caller as Marie, and said that the call was unusual & out of character.

Excellent point!  I really don't understand why that wasn't done, since that would have gone a long way towards helping figure out the time of death.  Even if it's somewhat inexact, it still would have likely either shown undigested dinner from the night before, nothing much (which would probably mean just having woken up in the morning), or undigested breakfast. 

The phone call thing made no sense, because initially they couldn't explain the phone call, and that's what was throwing off their case.  But then they got a great explanation that it could have been the man's girlfriend making the call, and yet they still made it out to be some insurmountable barrier.  I almost wonder if they chose that as their stumbling block, rather than the cold truth, which is that there will never be the 'hard' evidence that they need to nail down the case.

Edited January 12, 2022 by LuvMyShows

[cynicat]

6 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

Excellent point!  I really don't understand why that wasn't done, since that would have gone a long way towards helping figure out the time of death.  Even if it's somewhat inexact, it still would have likely either shown undigested dinner from the night before, nothing much (which would probably mean just having woken up in the morning), or undigested breakfast. 

I believe checking stomach contents is pretty routine in a forensic autopsy, not sure if it's routinely done when there's no crime involved though.  They hadn't eaten dinner yet, so my guess is that there weren't any contents to examine, or the results were inconclusive.

As frustrating as this show can be when the case doesn't get to the grand jury, there must be some relief to the family when there are certain people that can ruled OUT, right?  Especially when they are family members.

[LuvMyShows]

5 hours ago, cynicat said:

I believe checking stomach contents is pretty routine in a forensic autopsy, not sure if it's routinely done when there's no crime involved though.  They hadn't eaten dinner yet, so my guess is that there weren't any contents to examine, or the results were inconclusive.

Actually, the timing regarding dinner would have been essential.  The supposed perp is trying to say that the family was alive in the morning, hence would have eaten breakfast after he left.  But the investigators believe the family was killed the night before, when there could have been undigested dinner, so the timing re: dinner the night before vs. breakfast the day of finding the family dead, is key.

[cynicat]

1 hour ago, LuvMyShows said:

Actually, the timing regarding dinner would have been essential.  The supposed perp is trying to say that the family was alive in the morning, hence would have eaten breakfast after he left.  But the investigators believe the family was killed the night before, when there could have been undigested dinner, so the timing re: dinner the night before vs. breakfast the day of finding the family dead, is key.

Agree, however as I understood it, they were still preparing dinner and had not yet sat down for the meal.  The grandmother was at the stove when she was killed.  Did I get that wrong?