S16.E23: Lawrence O'Donnell, Steven Pinker, D.L. Hughley, Christina Bellantoni, and Seth Moulton

[formerlyfreedom]

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 D.L. Hughley (author of "How Not To Get Shot"), Lawrence O'Donnell (author of "Deadly Force" & MSNBC personality), Rep. Seth Moulton (D-MA), Steven Pinker (author of "Enlightenment Now", and  Christina Bellantoni (assistant managing editor for politics at the LA Times)

[sugarbaker design]

Laurence O'Donnell readily admits he is awful at predicting outcomes of elections.  A heartbeat later he predicts a Warren victory in 2020. 

[attica]

I enjoyed DL pushing back on Pinker. 

[sistermagpie]

20 minutes ago, attica said:

I enjoyed DL pushing back on Pinker. 

Yeah, I understand where he was coming from but he wasn't doing enough to make it clear that people doing better doesn't mean people have less reason to demand more. African Americans in the 50s were in a better place than they were during slavery, but that didn't mean they should just be grateful they weren't slaves. I don't think that's what Pinker meant to say, but he needed to make that more clear.

[Caseysgirl]

I wish Bill didn’t give voice over and over again to being a coastal elitist. From his remarks about the fires not even wanting to visit the fly over states to his remarks about the Dakotas, he just oozes smug superiority, and is one of the reasons that Trump’s supporters band together. 

[iMonrey]

I've seen references to this dumb Trump tweet where he said the reason California is on fire is because they are diverting water to the Pacific Ocean, but where exactly is that coming from? I know it's stupid but what crazy conspiracy theory is this based on? Is this something he just pulled out of his ass or something he heard on Fox News or on Info Wars?

Steven Pinker needs a haircut. Also, D.L. Hughley got off a lot of great one-liners but I felt like he was auditioning for something. I also noticed, more on Overtime, that whenever he was asked a question he'd look directly into the camera, instead of at Bill or the panelists.

I liked the New Rule about putting stickers on the chirpy blondes at Fox News. My God, they do all look exactly alike. Are they clones? Are there any brunettes on that network at all? 

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From his remarks about the fires not even wanting to visit the fly over states to his remarks about the Dakotas, he just oozes smug superiority, and is one of the reasons that Trump’s supporters band together.

He has a valid point about the Dakotas and it has nothing to do with superiority. If there was only one Dakota, Democrats would control the Senate. Lawrence O'Donnell explained beautifully about the founding fathers not having the foreknowledge about California and vast areas of land with very few people in them. He and Bill are right, they shouldn't be given equal consideration and voting power to more populous states.

[ganesh]

14 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Yeah, I understand where he was coming from but he wasn't doing enough to make it clear that people doing better doesn't mean people have less reason to demand more.

I thought Hughley didn't have a clue what he was taking about and was just generally uninformed overall. The guy said just because people are doing better doesn't mean it's good enough. So yeah point taken. We all need to do better and hold people accountable. I found Hughley to be just rambling. Even Bill cut him off. 

 

13 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Also, D.L. Hughley got off a lot of great one-liners but I felt like he was auditioning for something.

Bill called him on it after a while. I think he's a funny guy and I like his comedy shows but I don't need him trying out material here. He kept derailing the discussion. 

 

14 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Yeah, I understand where he was coming from but he wasn't doing enough to make it clear that people doing better doesn't mean people have less reason to demand more.

I thought Hughley didn't have a clue what he was taking about and was just generally uninformed overall. The guy said just because people are doing better doesn't mean it's good enough. So yeah point taken. We all need to do better and hold people accountable. I found Hughley to be just rambling. Even Bill cut him off. 

 

13 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Also, D.L. Hughley got off a lot of great one-liners but I felt like he was auditioning for something.

Bill called him on it after a while. I think he's a funny guy and I like his comedy shows but I don't need him trying out material here. He kept derailing the discussion. 

I totally died when the woman started cracking up before Bill got to the punchline about the twins. 

 

Was the audience overly annoying tonight? 

[meowmommy]

32 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Steven Pinker needs a haircut. Also, D.L. Hughley got off a lot of great one-liners but I felt like he was auditioning for something.

Yes, when you walk out on stage and all the audience (meaning me) can do is stare at the hair, it's time to do something about it.  Looking at Albert Einstein?  Art Garfunkel?  A Michelangelo statue?

And it felt exactly like a bunch of one-liners.  Good on Bill to knock him down when he made the stupid crack about quoting Lincoln.  Great wisdom doesn't fade with time.

For the most part, the congressman came across to me as vapid.  Not sure what makes him a rising star. 

35 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

He has a valid point about the Dakotas and it has nothing to do with superiority. If there was only one Dakota, Democrats would control the Senate. Lawrence O'Donnell explained beautifully about the founding fathers not having the foreknowledge about California and vast areas of land with very few people in them. He and Bill are right, they shouldn't be given equal consideration and voting power to more populous states.

The conundrum is it's those vast, empty states which would have to ratify an amendment to the constitution that would eliminate their undue power.  Which means, of course, that it will never happen.

About time LOD had a good excuse for not being on his own show on Friday night.  I'd rather have seen him on the panel than as the interview subject, though.

4 minutes ago, ganesh said:

I thought Hughley didn't have a clue what he was taking about and was just generally uninformed overall. The guy said just because people are doing better doesn't mean it's good enough. So yeah point taken.

Hughley was speaking anecdotally.  The plural of anecdote is not data.  Pinker was speaking from data. 

I already knew about Q, but Bill still managed to make it interesting and funny.

[ganesh]

4 minutes ago, meowmommy said:

For the most part, the congressman came across to me as vapid.  Not sure what makes him a rising star. 

He's the reason the democrats will likely lose. He's talking about getting Pelosi out and this is something I hear but never hear why, but then he's doing the old, tired, we need to get out there and tell people what we stand for. Right. Thar anyways works. 

6 minutes ago, meowmommy said:

Hughley was speaking anecdotally.  The plural of anecdote is not data.  Pinker was speaking from data. 

Hughley also lacked context. We're seeing more shootings because we are more aware and people are starting to demand accountability. Hughley should be telling his mom's neighbors to vote for local officials who will. 

[sistermagpie]

29 minutes ago, ganesh said:

I thought Hughley didn't have a clue what he was taking about and was just generally uninformed overall. The guy said just because people are doing better doesn't mean it's good enough. So yeah point taken. We all need to do better and hold people accountable. I found Hughley to be just rambling. Even Bill cut him off. 

 

10 minutes ago, meowmommy said:

Hughley was speaking anecdotally.  The plural of anecdote is not data.  Pinker was speaking from data. 

Yes, I was about to say the same thing, that Hughley was speaking anecdotally. He's heard stories about life in the 70s. There are similar stories from today, therefore things haven't changed. But Pinker had actual data.

Also, like even when he said that now people were aware of things and wanted them to change and Hughley just said well, you need more than thinking it's bad. But there's plenty of people who do do more than think it's bad even if they're not being as aggressive as he'd like or being able to fix the problem. I wished Pinker had been able to just address the subtext that he wasn't actually arguing against any of these anecdotes. It should have been obvious, but I'm sure it wasn't to everyone, especially since it's an old white guy arguing against a black man.

I did roll my eyes at Bill jumping in to say that white men were allowed to have opinions and could see the world in response to the congressman said he hadn't lived the reality of being a black man. It's not like the guy was being shy about offering his opinion without Bill's defense!

2 minutes ago, ganesh said:

Hughley also lacked context. We're seeing more shootings because we are more aware and people are starting to demand accountability. Hughley should be telling his mom's neighbors to vote for local officials who will. 

Right, and also there's cell phones where people can see what's actually happened. There is a very different attitude about the issue now. I think it would have been really hard to get as many people in the 70s to even really believe how people of color were routinely treated by police because they hadn't experienced it.

[ganesh]

9 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

. It should have been obvious, but I'm sure it wasn't to everyone, especially since it's an old white guy arguing against a black man.

The crowd kept clapping for Hughley so I think the other guy just figured using actual facts wasn't working. And it does tend not to with emotionally charged issues. 

[Milburn Stone]

The supposedly rising star of the Democratic Party didn't fill me with confidence.

[UYI]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

 

I liked the New Rule about putting stickers on the chirpy blondes at Fox News. My God, they do all look exactly alike. Are they clones? Are there any brunettes on that network at all? 

 

Well, one of the few brunettes they had just got fired because she couldn't stop sharing her dick pics at work (one must have a dick in order to share pictures of one at Fox News, I suppose). Meanwhile, another one (Jon Huntsman's daughter, Abby) is about to join The View. 

As a natural blonde who is both a Trump hater and a liberal Democrat, I hate how Fox News has ruined the image of blonde women in terms of politics. Some of us are smart and non-robotic looking, and we need love and appreciation too. I don't want to have to dye my hair dark for guys/people who I share similar political views with to like me. :( 

...But, anyway. Yeah. -_-

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

Was the audience overly annoying tonight? 

There were a few piercingly loud laughs that annoyed the hell out of me. 

Edited August 11, 2018 by UYI

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 minutes ago, UYI said:

Well, one of the few brunettes they had just got fired because she couldn't stop sharing her dick pics at work (one must have a dick in order to share pictures of one at Fox News, I suppose). Meanwhile, another one (Jon Huntsman's daughter, Abby) is about to join The View. 

Kimberly Guilfoyle, who is Gavin Newsom’s ex-wife and Drumph Junior’s new girlfriend. Then there was that Other brunette who was Greek, who was fired-I’m blanking on her name. But she was also horrid. And Jedidiah Bila, who was another brunette that used to work there.

[UYI]

28 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Kimberly Guilfoyle, who is Gavin Newsom’s ex-wife and Drumph Junior’s new girlfriend. Then there was that Other brunette who was Greek, who was fired-I’m blanking on her name. But she was also horrid. And Jedidiah Bila, who was another brunette that used to work there.

Andrea Tantaros. She followed Gretchen Carlson's lead soon after by suing the network for sexual harassment. 

[amsel]

14 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

Laurence O'Donnell readily admits he is awful at predicting outcomes of elections.  A heartbeat later he predicts a Warren victory in 2020. 

Maybe it's because he doesn't want Warren to win the nomination. :D Trump would use the Pocahontas label constantly, and then she would attack him back, and then the campaign would become a joke. 

The Democrats do need a fighter, but someone who is young and new. As of now, I'm on the Kamala Harris train, with Chris Murphy as her VP. But let's see how things develop in the next couple years. 

 

I thought the show was good. I loved Lawrence (I watch his show every night, so that's no surprise :D). The confrontation between Pinker and DL was unfortunate because their views, I think, are compatible, but they couldn't really articulate them well enough to make it clear that they are compatible. So it ended it being this awkward thing where the white man tells a black man that things are better. 

 

My favorite part was "there's hasn't been any non-evidence," in New Rules. 

Edited August 11, 2018 by amsel

[ganesh]

2 hours ago, amsel said:

The Democrats do need a fighter, but someone who is young and new. As of now, I'm on the Kamala Harris train, with Chris Murphy as her VP. But let's see how things develop in the next couple years. 

They need someone impervious to Trump's nicknames that can parry him with humor but not come off as condescending. Like how Reagan pulled the "oh there you go again" to Carter.

2 hours ago, amsel said:

My favorite part was "there's hasn't been any non-evidence," in New Rules

Yet we're constantly begin told by people on this show how we have to listen to these people. 

[ZoqFotPik]

I was kind of hoping John de Lancie would pop out during the "Q" bit at the end.

[wknt3]

Just got a chance to watch this episode. I think I agree with just about everything already said here except I that I agree with Bill about the two Dakotas thing. To me the biggest problem this week was that whole was less than the sum of it's parts. It seemed like there was a lot of separate monologues going on instead of a real discussion and Bill only sporadically seemed interested in trying to moderate and get things back on track (like with Pinker and Hughley). Even the scripted material wasn't as tightly linked as last week. There was a lot of interesting points being made, but it never seemed to gel into a real back and forth debate/discussion like the best epiosdes.

[alias1]

On ‎8‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 10:57 PM, sugarbaker design said:

Laurence O'Donnell readily admits he is awful at predicting outcomes of elections.  A heartbeat later he predicts a Warren victory in 2020. 

I think he was just using Warren as an example.  And maybe especially to get under Trump's skin because he described a beautiful scenario where Trump is escorted out of the White House as he is beaten by a woman.  I love Lawrence!

[GoldenGirl90]

On 8/11/2018 at 9:38 AM, attica said:

I enjoyed DL pushing back on Pinker. 

I love the unfiltered DL period but he needs to prepare himself better before going on shows like this.

 

On 8/11/2018 at 11:08 AM, ganesh said:

I thought Hughley didn't have a clue what he was taking about and was just generally uninformed overall. The guy said just because people are doing better doesn't mean it's good enough. So yeah point taken. We all need to do better and hold people accountable. I found Hughley to be just rambling. Even Bill cut him off. 

I like D.L. but yeah, I think he tried to hide his cluelessness by masking it with comedy. Ya gotta come much more prepared than that on a show like this, D.L. 

Edited August 13, 2018 by Alexis2291

[ganesh]

I certainly don't fault him for being emotional about the issue, but no one was actually disagreeing with him and he kept taking a contrary point. When Bill cut him off, Bill was saying how he did a piece on that last month. The other guy wasn't saying "problem solved." 

[DXD526]

Since I wasn't watching live, I had the option to FF Hughley and did so, eventually. The guy with the distractingly bad hair wasn't arguing with him, but it was like since he had a platform, he was going to rant. He wasn't making any points, he was just annoying after a while. 

[charmed1]

I hate D.L. Hughley’s problematic ass. I don’t understand why he still keeps getting booked on shows as some type of astute political comedian. He’s ignorant. That “cruise ship” joke is stale as all hell. He may have even told it back in the Comic View days.

Edited August 14, 2018 by charmed1

[ganesh]

Who calls him an astute political comedian? 

[charmed1]

Those are my words, but for receipts, look no further than the short lived show CNN gave him. 

[Avaleigh]

8 hours ago, charmed1 said:

I hate D.L. Hughley’s problematic ass. I don’t understand why he still keeps getting booked on shows as some type of astute political comedian. He’s ignorant. That “cruise ship” joke is stale as all hell. He may have even told it back in the Comic View days.

The moment I was done with D.L. Hughley in this episode was when he was critical because somebody decided to quote Abraham Lincoln. He made it seem like it was a bad thing that a person from the past was being quoted. Even if he was joking when he said that it was a stupid joke. If a quote is good then it shouldn't matter when it was said. I was glad that Bill disagreed with him and used people quoting Cicero as an example. 

[msrachelj]

On 8/12/2018 at 9:53 PM, Alexis2291 said:

I love the unfiltered DL period but he needs to prepare himself better before going on shows like this.

 

I like D.L. but yeah, I think he tried to hide his cluelessness by masking it with comedy. Ya gotta come much more prepared than that on a show like this, D.L. 

he does not come off as educated at all. what a waste of a guest.