Speculation Only

[catrox14]

He did. And I sideeyed that long and hard at the time. All the BMOL have to do is hire one decent hacker.i thought at the time, maybe Sam & Dean were hatching a plan  to blow up the bunker to keep it from the BMOL, hence Sam  putting  files on the cloud but I'm not sure anymore. I mean what about all the books? Has he been scanning them over the years?

They're gonna have to explain how they had that recipe all along but never even talked about how ironic it was that they've known how to make bullets for the Colt but didn't have the Colt. Even in the raid, Sam could have made an ironic observation, like "Oh sure NOW we have the colt but didn't with Dick Roman or the Darkness or even Dean when he... Never mind."(as Mary's all "say wut".

Edited March 17, 2017 by catrox14

[DittyDotDot]

1 hour ago, rue721 said:

Imagine how he could tinker with and perfect them, too. I am imagining all kinds of demented inventions that he could start pulling out of Baby's trunk.

I know, right. Jut think of the hybrid he could come up with using the grenade launcher alone!! ;)

56 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

He did. And I sideeyed that long and hard at the time. All the BMOL have to do is hire one decent hacker.i thought at the time, maybe Sam & Dean were hatching a plan  to blow up the bunker to keep it from the BMOL, hence Sam  putting  files on the cloud but I'm not sure anymore. I mean what about all the books? Has he been scanning them over the years?

They shouldn't even have to hire a hacker. I mean, Charlie integrated the systems for Sam--yeah, I'm rolling my eyes too @RulerofallIsurvey--it's basically a MoL computer for crying out loud!

Edited March 17, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[RulerofallIsurvey]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

I mean what about all the books? Has he been scanning them over the years?

Sure.  That's what he does late at night when he can't sleep. :)  

42 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

eah, I'm rolling my eyes too @RulerofallIsurvey

Oh man, I think one of my contacts got stuck in the back of my head!  Lol.

[DittyDotDot]

From Ladies Drink Free thread:

1 hour ago, Binns said:

One of the previews with Robert Singer had Singer saying there was a very brief clue about S13 somewhere in the episode. Any thoughts on what that was? 

I have two:

• Mick does indeed survive and becomes part of Team Winchester
• Claire will be a recurring hunter

I'm not sure about the second because I think Katheryn is currently on another show on HBO. It could be anything or nothing, though. Next season they could pull something out of their ass and point back and say, "See, we aren't pulling stuff out of our asses." ;)

ETA: I actually have a third idea that they're setting up war with the BMoL, but I'm not sure it's something unique to this episode.

[MysteryGuest]

I was thinking it might have something to do with either looking to cure some monsters, or possibly just more monster activity in response to the BMOL and their methods of just wiping out entire packs of monsters.  The monsters on this show haven't been shown to be unintelligent, so I would think news would travel about these mass killings and maybe monsters would band together to fight back a bit.  Yeah, I know...it's farfetched, but it could be interesting.

[ILoveReading]

I'm starting to wonder if the British Men of Letters "old men" are witches.  A lot of their cures, and toys seem like they could easily be things derived from a witches spell book.

[Turtle666]

I'm starting to think the BMoL are getting everything they want. They're slowly recruiting all the Winchesters, they have THE COLT, they now have the formula to create the bullets for THE COLT, hell they even took out the Alpha Vamp and even had Dean so relax that he released Garths name/situation. The BMoL from the start wanted to recruit american hunters and learn every last piece of information they have.

 

...Still not 100% with Mack yet

[MysteryGuest]

34 minutes ago, Turtle666 said:

I'm starting to think the BMoL are getting everything they want. They're slowly recruiting all the Winchesters, they have THE COLT, they now have the formula to create the bullets for THE COLT, hell they even took out the Alpha Vamp and even had Dean so relax that he released Garths name/situation. The BMoL from the start wanted to recruit american hunters and learn every last piece of information they have.

I think the tide is starting to turn a bit with Mick now second-guessing what he's always believed.  If they can get to Mick, I have to think they'd be able to convince Mary...if she ever takes the time to actually speak to them.  Ketch will be a hard sell because he's really nothing more than a killer.  As for Lady Toni, we still don't really know what her motivation was.  I have to think it was more than just "following orders", so I guess we'll learn more in the coming episodes.

I was extremely upset when Sam decided to work with the BMOL, and equally upset when Dean seemed to cave so easily.  This episode at least got things back on track with how Sam and Dean have hunted in recent years.  You don't just kill everything in your path.  I'm hopeful that we may still see more American hunters joining them in their fight against the BMOL.

[Turtle666]

10 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I think the tide is starting to turn a bit with Mick now second-guessing what he's always believed.  If they can get to Mick, I have to think they'd be able to convince Mary...if she ever takes the time to actually speak to them.  Ketch will be a hard sell because he's really nothing more than a killer.  As for Lady Toni, we still don't really know what her motivation was.  I have to think it was more than just "following orders", so I guess we'll learn more in the coming episodes.

I was extremely upset when Sam decided to work with the BMOL, and equally upset when Dean seemed to cave so easily.  This episode at least got things back on track with how Sam and Dean have hunted in recent years.  You don't just kill everything in your path.  I'm hopeful that we may still see more American hunters joining them in their fight against the BMOL.

Well yes I can that Mick is starting to change or it all could be a decoy. Ketch..see the thing about ketch is that he reminds me of  a inexperienced Dean, he sees monsters for only monsters as once Dean did and I believe that's why they hate each other because there almost the same person just once Brit and one is American. As for Lady Toni I think she underestimated the boys wills.

I always enjoyed Sam being in the middle, always seeing both stories of the sides but Sam is intelligent enough to know when to back away from the BMoL i.m.o. and solely joined them due to technology they have and would help himself and Dean in the long run.

And for the other American Hunters..I think Sam and Dean are going to create a new generation of MoL later on in the season.

[MysteryGuest]

2 minutes ago, Turtle666 said:

Well yes I can that Mick is starting to change or it all could be a decoy. Ketch..see the thing about ketch is that he reminds me of  a inexperienced Dean, he sees monsters for only monsters as once Dean did and I believe that's why they hate each other because there almost the same person just once Brit and one is American.

Hmmm...I can't say I agree with this.  Yes, Dean once believed that the only good monster was a dead monster, but he never killed people (MOC and Demon Dean time excluded).  Ketch will kill anyone he's told to kill without batting an eye.  I don't see them at all alike.  

[Turtle666]

3 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

Hmmm...I can't say I agree with this.  Yes, Dean once believed that the only good monster was a dead monster, but he never killed people (MOC and Demon Dean time excluded).  Ketch will kill anyone he's told to kill without batting an eye.  I don't see them at all alike.  

Yes but remember Ketchs words, "Dean you and I are killers, if we're not punching or stabbing something, we're not us". Yes, Dean wouldn't kill an innocent person while Ketch would, but we still don't know who Ketch truly is, he's still just a new character. Actually makes me wonder if Ketch has a soul?

[MysteryGuest]

Yes, everyone seems determined to remind Dean of just what a heartless killer he is, but I don't buy it.  It's not who he is.  Again, with the Mark, and as a demon, things obviously were different, but Dean as himself is not just some mindless killer.    

[catrox14]

2 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

I was thinking it might have something to do with either looking to cure some monsters, or possibly just more monster activity in response to the BMOL and their methods of just wiping out entire packs of monsters.  The monsters on this show haven't been shown to be unintelligent, so I would think news would travel about these mass killings and maybe monsters would band together to fight back a bit.  Yeah, I know...it's farfetched, but it could be interesting.

That's how Dabb is going to bring back his five monster families.MONSTER WARS V BMOL which side do The Winchesters take.

[catrox14]

27 minutes ago, Turtle666 said:

they hate each other because there almost the same person just once Brit and one is American. As for L

. Dean saw monsters in black and white   terms early on but as of Bloodlust in s2, he asked "What if we've been killing things that didn't deserve to be killed all these years." That was 10 years ago for Dean. He isn't an assassin.he would never have killed Magda .He's nothing like Ketch. It makes me sad and annoyed  with the show for pushing that narrative. Dean spent 2 seasons as the new Cain but turns out he was actually protecting the universe that whole time. He should get a damn Medal of Honor for his troubles. Instead he gets a narrative that tries to to draw an inapt comparison with Ketch. YMMV

[ahrtee]

37 minutes ago, Turtle666 said:

Yes but remember Ketchs words, "Dean you and I are killers, if we're not punching or stabbing something, we're not us". Yes, Dean wouldn't kill an innocent person while Ketch would, but we still don't know who Ketch truly is, he's still just a new character. Actually makes me wonder if Ketch has a soul?

It's possible that Ketch doesn't have a soul, and that's what they're going to use as a surprise (maybe the BMoL are extracting/collecting souls to create their own killer army like the nun was doing for Abaddon in Mother's Little Helper.)  

But from what we've seen, I think it's more likely that Ketch is a psychopath, and Mick is going to realize that and question why and how the BMoL are using him.  

And for the record, Dean is not, nor has he ever been, a psychopath. Per most definitions I've read,  psychopaths don't have a conscience or any empathy, though they can be charming (and manipulative). They're not necessarily all killers, but will cold-bloodedly do whatever they want without fearing consequences. Dean may have had a black-and-white upbringing regarding monsters, but he definitely has a conscience and honestly cares about people.  He's learned to question and see shades of gray, and, no matter what he (or others) may think, he does think things through and decide whether or not to kill (except when under demonic influence, of course...)  

Ketch doesn't seem bothered at all by killing or following what might be considered "distasteful" orders--as a matter of fact, from what he said to Dean, he not only enjoys killing, but especially likes being ordered to do what he would otherwise do just for sheer enjoyment--it takes the responsibility off his shoulders so he can keep pretending to be normal.  It wouldn't even occur to him to question any orders to kill (or do something he wanted to do in the first place), though I'm pretty sure he would argue against *not* killing something, though more likely he would just go ahead and do what he wanted anyway (as he did by going to talk to Dean against orders.)  

By trying to show how much they're alike, Ketch is actually proving how different they are--that he revels in killing, while Dean is filled with self-loathing *because* of all the killing he's done.  Now if only Dean could see that...

Edited April 1, 2017 by ahrtee

[Turtle666]

Well hell, maybe Dean will be the one who finally reaches out to Ketch and changes him for the better, or one awesome fight action scene. 

Also that Mark of Cain,..wasn't it only able to be passed on to that of a true killer? And I know God was going to give the Mark to Sam but that's God, he can do what he want.

[ILoveReading]

I wonder if Ketch's tattoo means something.  I've seen spec for everything that he's ancient and the tattoo is keeping him alive to it being a symbol that he belongs to Supernatural's version of the League of Assassins. 

[ahrtee]

5 minutes ago, Turtle666 said:

Well hell, maybe Dean will be the one who finally reaches out to Ketch and changes him for the better, or one awesome fight action scene. 

Also that Mark of Cain,..wasn't it only able to be passed on to that of a true killer? And I know God was going to give the Mark to Sam but that's God, he can do what he want.

From what I've read, you can't change a true psychopath--it's hardwired (doctors are currently studying it as a problem with the amygdala in the brain).  So I'm waiting for one helluva fight scene between Ketch and Dean!

About the Mark of Cain--Cain said it could only be passed to someone "worthy".  Dean was the one who said "you mean a killer" and Cain agreed, which just shows (again) how Dean thinks of himself.  But IIRC, in the SPN universe, the original mark was given to Lucifer because he was the most trusted, in order to keep Amara locked up; and AFAIK Cain wasn't a killer before he took the Mark.  But who knows, considering how SPN canon keeps changing. 

 

3 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I wonder if Ketch's tattoo means something.  I've seen spec for everything that he's ancient and the tattoo is keeping him alive to it being a symbol that he belongs to Supernatural's version of the League of Assassins. 

The way they've focused on it, I'm pretty sure it means something, and I'm assuming it has something to do with the "old men."  League of Assassins (or soulless army) make as much sense as anything.  

[rue721]

20 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I wonder if Ketch's tattoo means something.  I've seen spec for everything that he's ancient and the tattoo is keeping him alive to it being a symbol that he belongs to Supernatural's version of the League of Assassins. 

In light of Sam and Dean's anti-possession tattoos and how Crowley made Nick's body into a cage for Lucifer, I think Ketch's tattoo is probably some kind of lock. Whether it's to keep him from being possessed or to keep something locked inside of him, or what, though, I dunno.

[Binns]

One thing that struck me about Sam this time was it seemed like he was DONE with the BMoL after that teenager was killed by Mick and the two of them would have been out if it wasn't for them saving Claire. It seemed to me like Sam has his head on straight about these guys. Combined with Deans two-for-one interrogation and I felt better about this partnership. 

[mertensia]

On 4/1/2017 at 9:26 AM, DittyDotDot said:

From Ladies Drink Free thread:

I have two:

• Mick does indeed survive and becomes part of Team Winchester
• Claire will be a recurring hunter

I'm not sure about the second because I think Katheryn is currently on another show on HBO. It could be anything or nothing, though. Next season they could pull something out of their ass and point back and say, "See, we aren't pulling stuff out of our asses." ;)

ETA: I actually have a third idea that they're setting up war with the BMoL, but I'm not sure it's something unique to this episode.

Season 13: Year of the Luxury Hotels.

[DittyDotDot]

Don't put those ideas in their head @mertensia! ;)

Edited April 3, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[catrox14]

14 hours ago, Binns said:

One thing that struck me about Sam this time was it seemed like he was DONE with the BMoL after that teenager was killed by Mick and the two of them would have been out if it wasn't for them saving Claire. It seemed to me like Sam has his head on straight about these guy

I wish I was more confident that Sam has seen the light. I was surprised that Dean was willing to give them a 2nd Chance. He seemed reluctant but he probably thought it was fair since Cliare had been cured. .I had the impression Sam was relived that he could give them a second chance. IMO s Sam really wants to believe that he didn't sign up for a sketchy outfit.

I thought it was a strange line for Sam to say "We're not angry, we're done!"

Sam SHOULD be angry with them and done with them.Why did he qualify it as not being angry? It is actually okay to be angry, its what you do with the anger that matters.

[Myrelle]

On ‎4‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 0:26 PM, DittyDotDot said:

From Ladies Drink Free thread:

On ‎4‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 11:19 AM, Binns said:

One of the previews with Robert Singer had Singer saying there was a very brief clue about S13 somewhere in the episode. Any thoughts on what that was? 

I just re-watched and I think they were pushing a parallel between Claire and Dean something fierce and I further think that they were also pushing Sam's being in love with the BMoL lore and such.

So... Claire going off on her own at the end could be foreshadowing for Dean doing that also because where it concerns the hunt, he has very little in common with the Brits AND Dabb did say at the outset that this would be a season about everyone deciding what they want out of the hunt and how they want to hunt. Dean might have loved the fancy hotel for a night, but he still prefers the old-fashioned way when it comes to how the hunt is carried out. The nuts and bolts of it, if you will. The weapons and the fashion of taking out the baddies, for sure. I can't see Dean in any way supporting how Mick took out the almost were-girl. She suffered. What he offered and promised the vampire girl in one of the previous episodes was a quick end. And I further think that there has been somewhat of a focus and highlight on how some hunters/angels/BMoL would actually like to see evil-doers(in their eyes) suffer before they die. This does not seem to be Dean's outlook on that at all this season; his outlook on it in previous seasons notwithstanding.

I think Singer just meant that we're going to get more hunts that will have BMoL involved. Dabb loves them. That is obvious to me. Or maybe Sam hunting more with them while Dean works another hunt.

I've long held the idea and thought that true character growth for the two brothers would have to involve them each having lives of their own in some way and this would by necessity have to involve them living outside of each others' pockets for at least some stretches of time-and most importantly, NOT just because one or the other is pissed off or feels like they are "poison" to the other/others.

[catrox14]

On 4/1/2017 at 0:13 PM, ahrtee said:

It's possible that Ketch doesn't have a soul, and that's what they're going to use as a surprise (maybe the BMoL are extracting/collecting souls to create their own killer army like the nun was doing for Abaddon in Mother's Little Helper.)  

Here's something I have never understood. Shouldn't an angel, i.e. Castiel, be able to tell if someone doesn't have a soul?

[DittyDotDot]

12 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Here's something I have never understood. Shouldn't an angel, i.e. Castiel, be able to tell if someone doesn't have a soul?

Perhaps they should, but so far that's not been the case. Cass had to do the soul-oscopy on both Sam and Grampy Campbell.

[catrox14]

12 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Perhaps they should, but so far that's not been the case. Cass had to do the soul-oscopy on both Sam and Grampy Campbell.

Oh that's right. I forgot about that. Thanks

[Wayward Son]

I was thinking about the theme of mothers this season seems to have going on. What if Mary becomes pregnant with Ketch's baby?

It would be a way of making her torn between the BMoL and the brothers especially if Ketch was promising to stand by her and help her raise the new baby as the family she never got with Sam and Dean. 

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, Wayward Son said:

I was thinking about the theme of mothers this season seems to have going on. What if Mary becomes pregnant with Ketch's baby?

It would be a way of making her torn between the BMoL and the brothers especially if Ketch was promising to stand by her and help her raise the new baby as the family she never got with Sam and Dean. 

Oh boy.

Honestly, I would pretty much hate her for that. I don't think Mary would survive the backlash from fans with her freezing out Dean and Sam all this time to go off and have a family with Ketch who is a psychopath that just murders people.

[FlickChick]

For whatever reason, I don't expect Mary to be around after the end of this season. I'd hate to see Sam and Dean watch her die (again for Dean), but I just have this feeling she's not going to make it. Perhaps a sacrifice; turning on Ketch who's threatening Dean or Sam; perhaps on a hunt. Obviously, just guessing here.

[MysteryGuest]

3 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

I was thinking about the theme of mothers this season seems to have going on. What if Mary becomes pregnant with Ketch's baby?

It would be a way of making her torn between the BMoL and the brothers especially if Ketch was promising to stand by her and help her raise the new baby as the family she never got with Sam and Dean. 

I hope they don't go there.  That seems cruel to both Sam and Dean.  Plus with Ketch...just no.  

I have no idea how this is going to end.  I'll be annoyed if we spend the entire season with Mary semi-estranged from her sons, only to have them reconcile right before they kill her off.  But I'm not sure I see a role for her next season, especially if the BMOL storyline is wrapped up.  If I had my choice, they'd wrap up the Lucifer storyline this season and carry the BMOL through to next season.  But I'm pretty sure I'm not going to get what I want.

[catrox14]

I'm thinking this is has been a long ass back door pilot for a Men of Letters spinoff. I mean so much time spent with them. Sam and Dean aren't going to work with the BMoL forever.

[Wayward Son]

It could be but who would be the leads? Before they killed off Mick I could have seen it being him, but now I'm not sure. 

 

IMO if they were going to do a spin off they need to kill off the old leadership including Doctor Hass and the old man. The show would then be centred on a more humane leadership trying to pick up the pieces and rise from the ashes. The problem is without Mick we don't really have anyone sympathetic to play this role. Ketch and Lady NeedsToDie should be dead by the end of the season. They're apart of the problem IMO 

[catrox14]

Just now, Wayward Son said:

It could be but who would be the leads? Before they killed off Mick I could have seen it being him, but now I'm not sure. 

 

IMO if they were going to do a spin off they need to kill off the old leadership including Doctor Hass and the old man. The show would then be centred on a more humane leadership trying to pick up the pieces and rise from the ashes. The problem is without Mick we don't really have anyone sympathetic to play this role. Ketch and Lady NeedsToDie should be dead by the end of the season. They're apart of the problem IMO 

Maybe Mary gets promoted to the head of the BMoL and thinks she can change it. Ketch gets a big ole redemption arc and he and Mary go off to the UK to revamp the BMoL?

[FlickChick]

12 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Maybe Mary gets promoted to the head of the BMoL and thinks she can change it. Ketch gets a big ole redemption arc and he and Mary go off to the UK to revamp the BMoL?

Gag me with a spoon! I don't think even Dabb is dumb enough to think that's going to float. I'm not criticizing your thoughts, because I know how you'd feel about this whole mess:  just YUK!

[MysteryGuest]

I'm not sure there's any spinoff in the making.  Mary's not young enough to have a show on the CW.  Hell, Sam and Dean aren't young enough if they were starting out today.  I think if there's ever going to be a spinoff, it will involve people like Claire and Alex, or an entirely new generation of hunters.  And I'm personally not interested in seeing that until this show is finished.   

[catrox14]

8 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I'm not sure there's any spinoff in the making.  Mary's not young enough to have a show on the CW.  

Eh, the CW has room for older actors to be mentor roles, like on Arrow and the Flash. She could be the head of the BMoL with Ketch. They bring in Claire and Alex. They bring in the hunter Twins. Maybe even Lady OhGodsPleaseNo gets redemption since she is younger and a Vampire Diaries cast off. Bring some other young CW stars.

[auntvi]

[Please let me know if this belongs in different thread.]

Something kinda ridiculous occurred to me while I was watching the end of ep. 18 The Memory Remains. After Sam & Dean discuss their legacy and before they carve their initials into the table, they also talk about what will happen to the bunker when they're gone:

Quote

 

Dean: I wonder what's going to happen to this place. After we're gone, you think some hunter'll move in, keep fighting the fight.

Sam: I hope so.

Dean: Yeah me too.

 

What if this is the link to a spinoff? After this season with all the BS from the BMOL the Winchesters decide they'll sever all ties with the MoL and move out of the bunker. Or Sam & Dean are dead, sent to The Empty, whatever at the end of ep. 23. Then ...... Jody and any wayward girls who are still around move into the bunker and begin their own series. They kinda Inherit it.

It would be a way to get Sam & Dean going a different direction, yet keep using the very expensive, lovingly built bunker set that no one wants to tear down.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

1 hour ago, auntvi said:

What if this is the link to a spinoff? After this season with all the BS from the BMOL the Winchesters decide they'll sever all ties with the MoL and move out of the bunker.

I could see this happening.  I just hope not yet.  I'm not ready for the boys to say goodbye to the bunker yet.  

[auntvi]

Oh me neither, I love them in the bunker. But that whole scene was flashing foreshadowing. 

[AwesomO4000]

We've been talking in the general thread about what might be wrong with Mary and/or why she seems off or different from what we've seen in the past. And though while @Aeryn13's "Bad, bad Amara" is a logical reason (or otherwise translated as oblivious, careless Amara), while I was falling asleep last night, I had a thought...

Now I'm not saying that this thought has been considered by the show, but I was thinking about what has happened to Mary since we last saw her and what of that could account for a change in how she is... And then I thought about the soul discussion - from the episode thread where we were discussing the nephilum power being angel mojo + soul power source - and I thought about what happened to Mary's soul after she died. Now two things happened which might have affected Mary on a soul - i.e. fundamental - level. 1) She was a ghost for a long time and 2) as a ghost she merged/fought/came up against a violent, bad mojoed entity. Could either of those things damaged Mary's soul? Maybe in heaven her soul was healed a bit, but maybe not all the way? Or her time in heaven put her soul in a sort of "stasis" but now that it came back to earth it was once again afflicted with those scars?

I know it's out there (and likely implausible), and soul damage wasn't really shown in this way for say Sam or Dean, but Mary went through two things that they didn't - being a ghost for an extended period of time and coming into direct soul to soul contact with a destructive soul force, so maybe an argument could be made that some soul damage was done that hasn't had time to heal yet? Maybe that on top of the stressful situation Mary was brought into could have an affect on how she is now and why she seems like she's feeling disconnected.

[Wayward Son]

Putting this in here since it is technically speculating on the future of the show, but it’s in no way based on the spoilers we’ve gotten so far. 

 

With regard to the dynamic of the show I don’t think the show will ever become a true ensemble. I don’t think it’ll ever be a situation where we have Sam, Dean, Jack, Lucifer and Castiel in every single episode pursuing their individual storylines. However, I do think the episodes that consist of just Sam, Dean and the random people of the week will continue to dramatically drop. Instead while they won’t all be in every episode I’d say at least one regular will be in most episodes.

 

This is similar to last year where the only episodes to not star at least one series regular were

 

 - 4,5,6,11, 14, 16, 18, 20, 22

 

And this further drops to 

 

 - 4,5,11, 16, 18

 

If you subtract Episodes starring Mary who was a series regular in all but name last year. 

 

And this year so far there hasn’t been a single episode that hasn’t starred at least one of Cas, Jack or Lucifer.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Wayward Son

[FlickChick]

On 11/14/2017 at 6:35 PM, Wayward Son said:

Putting this in here since it is technically speculating on the future of the show, but it’s in no way based on the spoilers we’ve gotten so far. 

 

With regard to the dynamic of the show I don’t think the show will ever become a true ensemble. I don’t think it’ll ever be a situation where we have Sam, Dean, Jack, Lucifer and Castiel in every single episode pursuing their individual storylines. However, I do think the episodes that consist of just Sam, Dean and the random people of the week will continue to dramatically drop. Instead while they won’t all be in every episode I’d say at least one regular will be in most episodes.

 

This is similar to last year where the only episodes to not star at least one series regular were

 

 - 4,5,6,11, 14, 16, 18, 20, 22

 

And this further drops to 

 

 - 4,5,11, 16, 18

 

If you subtract Episodes starring Mary who was a series regular in all but name last year. 

 

And this year so far there hasn’t been a single episode that hasn’t starred at least one of Cas, Jack or Lucifer.

I agree with your assessment, although it doesn't please me. I'm always happy to see Cas in an episode - with or even without - too much of the boys. My problem last season as well as this one, is that I have ZERO interest in either Jack or Lucifer and I expect that a great deal of time will be spent on their stories again. I've come to the conclusion that Dabb's interest is in the Lucifer/Jack characters more than his actual leads. And that is truly sad! :(

[Wayward Son]

22 minutes ago, FlickChick said:

I agree with your assessment, although it doesn't please me. I'm always happy to see Cas in an episode - with or even without - too much of the boys. My problem last season as well as this one, is that I have ZERO interest in either Jack or Lucifer and I expect that a great deal of time will be spent on their stories again. I've come to the conclusion that Dabb's interest is in the Lucifer/Jack characters more than his actual leads. And that is truly sad! :(

Based solely on the fact a series regular typically has 11-13 episodes I'm predicting a Lucifer heavy second half and Jack's role will drastically drop. Considering 4 of Castiel's 11-13 appearances have been wasted already I'm anticipating him not having a great role this season. 

 

So far Jack has been in episodes 1,2,3 and 5, which leaves only 7-9 episodes available for the second half depending on whether he appears in episodes 6-10. 

Castiel has been in episodes 1,3,4 and 5. which again leaves only 7-9 episodes depending on whether he appears in episodes 6-10. 

Lucifer on the other hand has only been in episodes 1-2, which leaves him with 9-11 episodes and a minimum of eight episodes of the second half if he were to appear in eps 7-10)

Edited November 16, 2017 by Wayward Son

[FlickChick]

4 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Lucifer on the other hand has only been in episode 2, which leaves him with 9-12 episodes and a minimum of four-eight episodes of the second half if he were to appear in eps 7-10)

You have just made me even MORE unhappy. LOL

[Wayward Son]

Just now, FlickChick said:

You have just made me even MORE unhappy. LOL

I corrected the post because my wording was atrocious, but yeah I fear a Lucifer heavy second half is on its way based purely on the numbers haha

[Wayward Son]

7 hours ago, catrox14 said:

ETA: No I'm wrong. I think the The first Rift stayed open for a few hours.  I think it was  Crowley's spell that sped up the closing process so they could trap Lucifer. 

What I think was different was how Kaia's doppelganger could open a rift without the power of a nephelim. Which supposedly was the only reason rifts were opened was because of Jack's birth.  That's the part of the Rift stuff that bugs me.

My personal theory is that the figure we saw at the end is not a doppelganger, but a creature from the other world possessing Kaia’s body. They could either make it a straight up corpse evasion or state she was on the brink of death yet, but hadn’t actually died yet. If I’m right then my belief is that the creature is channeling / enhancing Kaia’s natural abilities and using them in a way she is not normally capable of. 

 

Posting in here because this is entirely a theory of mine and not influenced by spoilers.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Wayward Son

[RulerofallIsurvey]

I wasn't quite sure where to put this, but since it might be some speculation - and it's not based on any spoilers, I think this thread will work.  Anyway, I was thinking of how Sam tried to cheer up Dean when he was in a deep funk by suggesting the strip club and in very "Sam" fashion chose it based on the Yelp reviews.  (Lol!)  So, I was wondering what might be some ways for Dean to try to cheer up Sam if he stays in a prolonged funk, other than pancakes?  For example, I was thinking Dean might find a foreign language film festival for Sam, but in very "Dean" fashion" they would all be based on the lives of strippers or something!  Lol!  This isn't meant to be B v J and no snark intended here - I just thought we could have some good, silly fun with it!

[Pondlass1]

It's my speculation only that Dean wouldn't  have a clue how to cheer up Sam.  Dean would probably try the same quick fixes that would work on  himself - steak restaurant, strip club, bar crawl.

I don't think much would work on Sam anyway.  I think it's best to just allow the funk to fade away when it comes to Sam.

[catrox14]

39 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

It's my speculation only that Dean wouldn't  have a clue how to cheer up Sam.  Dean would probably try the same quick fixes that would work on  himself - steak restaurant, strip club, bar crawl.

I don't think much would work on Sam anyway.  I think it's best to just allow the funk to fade away when it comes to Sam.

Why wouldn't Dean know how to cheer up Sam? Are you suggesting that Dean, who raised Sam, who knows what his passwords were in s4, who knows that Sam likes nerdy movies and books etc, would be so selfish that he would try to help Sam as he helps himself?  Dang, that's pretty harsh on Dean