S01.E08: Prague

[scrb]

Quote

Tom has a bachelor party to remember; Kendall eyes a new business opportunity with a pair of idealistic entrepreneurs; Roman looks to land a deal for local TV stations with his father's longtime nemesis; Logan tasks Greg with acting as Kendall's babysitter during Tom's party; Shiv and Gil get ambushed during a TV interview on a Waystar network.

Last few episodes have been ramping up on the intrigue and built-up feelings, mostly resentment, amongst the characters.

Again, an episode named after a place in Europe, specifically the Czech Republic, but the action doesn't take place in Europe.  This time, instead of the men going to Tom's bachelor party in Prague, they end up at some "pop-up" orgy party in an isolated train station -- Kieran Caulkin says his character was suppose to arrange something on a yacht for Tom, even though Roman doesn't have the slightest respect for Tom.

A month after the showdown at Austerlitz (in New Mexico), Logan is trying to close the TV stations deal while Kendall is trying to be a venture capitalist, making deals with "alternative" business people.

Kendall, Stewy and Sandy Furness all have a way to describe business transactions in some colorful, inventive language.  Especially Kendall, trying to sell some hip cred to an arts start-up -- we really need a quotes thread for this show now, because some of the exchanges are approaching Veep and Billions territory.

Kendall is more confident, direct and blunt and ruthless (tells Frank to throw vicious accusations at the arts startup girls who didn't do the deal with him) when he's on drugs.  He makes Greg, who's looking to escape Tom on the corporate hierarchy, do the lines of coke he was going to do, when he finds out Logan had Greg watch over him.  Greg -- who doesn't do "white drugs" -- should have pulled a Woody Allen, sneeze all the coke away.

Roman tries to line up a deal with Sandy Furness, to impress his father, not knowing that Kendall is working on something bigger with Sandy himself.  Being seen as the weak brother since his childhood -- Kendall used to lock him up in a dog cage -- would explain his behavior as an adult.

Conor was going to be loyal to Willa who's back in New Mexico but he tries to fall in love with women at a sex party.  He invites everyone to come to his place, "pre or post apocalypse."

Tom has a bizarre experience and he's only too eager to tell the other guys, who must all be fighting the urge to laugh in his face.

Meanwhile, Shiv thinks she's in control of the situation with Gil and her father but ends the night realizing that she can only control Tom.  Logan first tries to butter her up ("you're the smartest") and then threatens her.  Finally has Marcia call to say they're not coming to her wedding.  Shiv tries to wave it off, says two less dinners for the caterers but it hurts her.

[Misstify]

7 hours ago, scrb said:

Again, an episode named after a place in Europe, specifically the Czech Republic, but the action doesn't take place in Europe.

Yeah, I'm wondering why they've named two episodes after places in the Czech Republic.  Both were scenes of battles in various wars, but they could have picked battle/city names from anywhere in the world.

Tom and Greg are the absolute best at looking uncomfortable.  Tom immediately regretted saying the details of his encounter out loud.  I think Shiv and Roman don't feel shame, so they never have a chance to use that facial expression, and Connor is enclosed in a sturdy bubble of delusion that allows him to think everything is fine at all times.

[Pop Tart]

This show never takes me where I think it's going to with the characters. When Connor confirmed that yes, Roman had enjoyed being in the dog cage to Kendell, and then added that Kendell had too, you could see a light going on for Kendell. And then Connor added the tidbit about Logan's theory that you pit two dogs against each other and send the weaker one away (which is what happened to Roman). Next scene that Kendell and Roman have is in the elevator together and Kendell is staring at Roman so intently. 

I thought the revelation for Kendell was going to be that their father truly was a monster and that he and Roman should be better with each other, as in "we both went through the same shit" or along those lines. Not that they'd get mushy or anything, but that Kendell could see how much damage his dad did. Instead he deliberately slams Roman on the way out of the elevator, tells Furness he wants to go ahead and calls someone to have them destroy the two women who turned down his money for the app. Instead of having the memory of his childhood bond him to Roman, it instead reinforced the message his dad wanted to inculcate, only the strong succeed and you have to crush the weak.

As much as all of the kids are pretty much horrible people, with every episode you can see - no matter how much money they had - they never stood a chance. Logan, whatever tortured background he himself has, was a monster as a parent. That his kids are too, is no surprise.

[Broderbits]

Has the show explained what happened to the kids' mother? I don't remember hearing anything about her, but that may be due to my lack of attention.

I think Kendall is well aware that his father is a monster, but still craves parental approval/love while at the same time wants to stick it to the old man. It would be surprising if he didn't use drugs.

Why oh why is Shiv marrying Tom? He's such a nothing: no brains, no imagination, no common sense. It can't be just because she can push him around, she pushes everyone around.

[terrymct]

Oh, Shiv is fixing to learn a hard lesson.  Gil isn't the polished candidate she thought he was.  He should have been ready for questions about his wife, but totally flubbed it then used her to attack Logan.   That battle between Logan and Gil isn't going to be as easy to handle as she once thought.   Logan's comment to her about having protected her up to this point was important.  Her life and career has been from the vantage point of his coat tails.  He doesn't have to make a move against her himself, just make sure those coat tails are retracted.  She's thought up to this point that her success is her own, but it looks like she's about to learn how everyone else has had to live and work.   Of the various arcs on this show, I'm looking to hers the most since she's so such of her own brilliance and abilities.

[clb1016]

1 hour ago, Broderbits said:

Why oh why is Shiv marrying Tom? He's such a nothing: no brains, no imagination, no common sense. It can't be just because she can push him around, she pushes everyone around.

 

Why is Shiv marrying anyone at all?  She's independently wealthy; she's happy in her career; she's never expressed any desire to have children at this point in her life (which she could do anyway without a husband); and she clearly doesn't take the idea of fidelity seriously.  I could more easily understand her choice of Tom as a husband if I could figure out why she's decided to take a husband.

[Misstify]

7 minutes ago, clb1016 said:

Why is Shiv marrying anyone at all?  She's independently wealthy; she's happy in her career; she's never expressed any desire to have children at this point in her life (which she could do anyway without a husband); and she clearly doesn't take the idea of fidelity seriously.  I could more easily understand her choice of Tom as a husband if I could figure out why she's decided to take a husband.

Not sure either.  Possibly it's so she can tell all the men she messes around with that she's married, keeping them at arm's length, and since she isn't emotionally invested in Tom at all, this setup protects her from getting too deeply attached to anyone.  It broke down a bit when her father turned against her and she actually needed emotional support.

By the way, her refrain of "we're both adults" as code for "I will be cheating on you often" is hilarious.

[poeticlicensed]

15 minutes ago, clb1016 said:

Why is Shiv marrying anyone at all?  She's independently wealthy; she's happy in her career; she's never expressed any desire to have children at this point in her life (which she could do anyway without a husband); and she clearly doesn't take the idea of fidelity seriously.  I could more easily understand her choice of Tom as a husband if I could figure out why she's decided to take a husband.

Some people can't be alone and need someone 24/7. She likes that he jumps when she snaps her fingers, doesn't question her or challenge her . I think it feeds her ego. I also think that she has abandonment issues and there's a lot of safety for her in the unequal relationship they have. I would be shocked if he ever left her, no matter how badly she treats him.   She knows that. 

[Eyes High]

Tom giggling "Buckle up, fucklehead!" at poor, coked-up Greg was genuinely funny. 

I'm not quite sure what we're supposed to believe with the dog cage story. Is Connor right that Roman enjoyed being put in the dog cage, that the "dog food" he was forced to eat was chocolate cake, and that Roman asked to be sent to military school? Or is Roman right and Connor is misremembering because the reality of the "game" was too unpleasant?

For someone who crows about how smart she is, Shiv sure is dumb when it comes to her affair with Nate. Of course Logan would know about it and would use that to threaten her.

[scrb]

I don't think it's the affair that he's threatening her with.

In any event she has a prenup with a "shit happens" clause and they're not married yet.

Shiv seems better than the other characters only by comparison, so we wonder why she'd marry someone she doesn't love or respect.  But she has a lot of issues like the rest of them and they all have significant shortcomings.

[ichbin]

1 hour ago, scrb said:

Shiv seems better than the other characters only by comparison, so we wonder why she'd marry someone she doesn't love or respect.  But she has a lot of issues like the rest of them and they all have significant shortcomings.

I actually see Kendall as the best of the bunch. Shiv and Roman seem about equally nasty and self-centered while Connor is just a wannabe waste. Of them all, Kendall seems to really want to be a business all-star and willing to do the work to get there, except Logan continuously puts the kibosh on anything that would allow Kendall to shine.  Kendall appears more self-destructive while Shiv and Roman get their jollies from watching others get hurt and squirm.  Totally agree on all of them having serious issues though. 

I'm waiting to see how Greg progresses. He might be awkward and a bumbler, but has been shown to not be a total idiot.  He isn't cut throat...yet, but he's been getting an education in the ways of that world.  

Edited July 23, 2018 by ichbin
insert a space

[tennisgurl]

The more we hear about Logan's parenting skills, the more his kids current screwed up selves make sense. He seemed to have a very dog eat dog philosophy when it came to his family, but still wrapped everything in a guise to "family business" and lessons for the kids, and it made them all total messes. 

I feel like Greg is the real dark horse here. he might be the bumbling dork now, but he isnt stupid, and he is right there watching everything going on, both with the business, and the family drama. Maybe he ends up swooping in while the rest of the family is self destructing and make his own power play? After some more lessons, of course. 

I do want to know why Logan has so much disdain for Kendall, who seems to be the only person in the family who really has the drive and savy to run the business besides him. Of course, maybe thats why he seems to hate him, he sees him as a threat? Or, he just hates all of his kids. 

[Pop Tart]

24 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I do want to know why Logan has so much disdain for Kendall, who seems to be the only person in the family who really has the drive and savy to run the business besides him. Of course, maybe thats why he seems to hate him, he sees him as a threat? Or, he just hates all of his kids. 

I think Kendall nailed it last week that Logan is jealous of what his kids have had even if he’s the one who gave it to them. They didn’t have to struggle the way he presumably did. He both has to give them everything, to prove he can, at the same time he deeply resents how “easy” they’ve had it. 

In the first episode he’d set up Kendall to take on the running of the company and then at the last minute couldn’t do it and ripped the chance away. All while claiming to be all about his family.

[scrb]

For Logan, winning means the other guy HAS to lose.

For instance, that TV deal, the seller was willing to take a lower price than they wanted to pay but didn't seem defeated about the price.

So Logan first asked Roman and then had Gerri walk the sellers to the elevator and low ball them even further.

And then Greg tells him he wants to get away from Parks and Tom, especially the way he's abusive of Greg.  That made Logan pause and say admiringly "didn't think he had it in him."

Winning means being the boss and being the boss means making underlings and business counterparts miserable.

Again with the "swinging a big dick" approach to running a multibillion dollar business.

[terrymct]

19 hours ago, clb1016 said:

Why is Shiv marrying anyone at all?  She's independently wealthy; she's happy in her career; she's never expressed any desire to have children at this point in her life (which she could do anyway without a husband); and she clearly doesn't take the idea of fidelity seriously.  I could more easily understand her choice of Tom as a husband if I could figure out why she's decided to take a husband.

 

To assure that there's someone on call to worship her whenever she wants?  His career is predicated at this point on his membership in the family.  If he leaves her, his job, money, and social status all disappears.   He'll fawn all over her and they both get what they want/need.

17 hours ago, Eyes High said:

I'm not quite sure what we're supposed to believe with the dog cage story. Is Connor right that Roman enjoyed being put in the dog cage, that the "dog food" he was forced to eat was chocolate cake, and that Roman asked to be sent to military school? Or is Roman right and Connor is misremembering because the reality of the "game" was too unpleasant?

At this point, I'm inclined to believe Connor's recollection the most of the three brothers.  He was older when it was happening and he doesn't gain/benefit from either version of the story.  

14 hours ago, ichbin said:

I actually see Kendall as the best of the bunch. Shiv and Roman seem about equally nasty and self-centered while Connor is just a wannabe waste. Of them all, Kendall seems to really want to be a business all-star and willing to do the work to get there, except Logan continuously puts the kibosh on anything that would allow Kendall to shine.  Kendall appears more self-destructive while Shiv and Roman get their jollies from watching others get hurt and squirm.  Totally agree on all of them having serious issues though. 

I'm waiting to see how Greg progresses. He might be awkward and a bumbler, but has been shown to not be a total idiot.  He isn't cut throat...yet, but he's been getting an education in the ways of that world.  

Kendall has the aspiration, but so far we haven't seen that he has the ability/skill.  I suspect that this hostile takeover with the rival company will show us whether he has skills or not.

Greg has flashes of intelligence and cunning.  I think in the long, long arc he may be the one who can run the company.

[kassandra8286]

6 hours ago, terrymct said:

Kendall has the aspiration, but so far we haven't seen that he has the ability/skill.

Agree, and his biggest lack is in the people-skills department. He may have good ideas on paper, but he's no salesman. He comes off as desperate/try-hard. He lacks charisma, which for all his assholishness, Papa Logan does not. Poor Kendall not only can't convince new prospects to come on board, he can't even get his supposed allies to stay loyal. 

6 hours ago, terrymct said:

I suspect that this hostile takeover with the rival company will show us whether he has skills or not.

I know -- I'm afraid that even if the hostile takeover is successful, what's-his-name and Stewy will end up screwing Kendall over. Although I guess for plot purposes, Kendall has to have some victories along the way. Otherwise he'll just end up dead in an alley somewhere.

Edited July 24, 2018 by kassandra8286

[scrb]

59 minutes ago, kassandra8286 said:

Agree, and his biggest lack is in the people-skills department. He may have good ideas on paper, but he's no salesman. He comes off as desperate/try-hard. He lacks charisma, which for all his assholishness, Papa Logan does not. Poor Kendall not only can't convince new prospects to come on board, he can't even get his supposed allies to stay loyal. 

I know -- I'm afraid that even if the hostile takeover is successful, what's-his-name and Stewy will end up screwing Kendall over. Although I guess for plot purposes, Kendall has to have some victories along the way. Otherwise he'll just end up dead in an alley somewhere.

Actually I think he's more confident since he started taking drugs again.  Contrast that to the first episode when he was nervously practicing his pitch in the limo, listening to hip hop or the board meeting where he's running while talking on the phone and he loses the vote.

But in this episode, he came off more reassured in the pitch to the girls.  Now they may have been put off because he told them their business model is to get rich off unknown artists -- which is the truth -- but I think they turned him down because of the association with Waystar, which is not hip enough for startups.  It would be like some stodgy old media corp. like Viacom or even News Corp trying to take over a hip startup.

Of course that is what he's trying to do in the pilot episode with that Asian guy who runs the startup and he tries to swing the big dick by trash-talking him and getting it thrown back in his face.

 

So while on drugs, Kendall tells Stewy that he wants to talk directly to Sandy, not through him.  Then tells Sandy he wants to go in on him for a hostile takeover.  Now, Sandy has his own agenda and may only be interested in using Kendall but Kendall at least sold it, rather than selling out his shares to Sandy.

I think if he got set up on the date with that anchor girl again -- the one who was told to show him a good time -- Kendall on drugs would take advantage whereas the old Kendall said he wouldn't go there.

That's not to endorse drugging it up to win in business.  In fact, Logan could use Kendall's drug use against him in the hostile takeover deal.

[showme]

Papa Logan better get his lazy, incompetent and dangerously egotistical kids out of his empire as soon as possible! The most damaging of them all is Kendall, who has this grandiose image of himself but with no talent or self awareness to match it. 

In colluding with the enemy, any perceived victory over his father will be short lived, Kendall will be tossed out like garbage as soon as Stewy and Sandy finished using him.  If he can't see that, he shouldn't be anywhere near the CEO seat. Pathetic!   

Edited July 24, 2018 by showme

[zoltana]

11 hours ago, terrymct said:

 

To assure that there's someone on call to worship her whenever she wants?  His career is predicated at this point on his membership in the family.  If he leaves her, his job, money, and social status all disappears.   He'll fawn all over her and they both get what they want/need.

At this point, I'm inclined to believe Connor's recollection the most of the three brothers.  He was older when it was happening and he doesn't gain/benefit from either version of the story.  

Kendall has the aspiration, but so far we haven't seen that he has the ability/skill.  I suspect that this hostile takeover with the rival company will show us whether he has skills or not.

Greg has flashes of intelligence and cunning.  I think in the long, long arc he may be the one who can run the company.

It wouldn't surprise me if in an arc in the future Greg gets moved up and promoted over one of the sons just so Logan can teach the boys some kind of sick lesson.

[scrb]

But the kids all have trust funds and they've already come into significant money, even before Logan dies and they inherit the rest of the estate.

So Kendall gets hired but he's got more money than he knows what to do with.  That is why after he was fired, he was trying to be a VC.

If Greg gets fired, he has nothing to fall back on.  Unless Logan changes his will and cuts him in or something, Greg will have to make money by rising in the company and getting a load of stock.

Remember, he thinks he's rich based on one paycheck and thinks eating at the California Pizza Kitchen is the ultimate.  

But he does have blackmail material on Tom so maybe that will come into play.

[lazylou]

On 7/23/2018 at 4:16 PM, ichbin said:

I actually see Kendall as the best of the bunch.

I agree.  One thing I find interesting is that he is so unsure of himself while sober the coke use seems to have some actual benefit for him.

[meira.hand]

On 7/24/2018 at 1:16 AM, ichbin said:

I actually see Kendall as the best of the bunch. Shiv and Roman seem about equally nasty and self-centered while Connor is just a wannabe waste. Of them all, Kendall seems to really want to be a business all-star and willing to do the work to get there, except Logan continuously puts the kibosh on anything that would allow Kendall to shine.  Kendall appears more self-destructive while Shiv and Roman get their jollies from watching others get hurt and squirm.  Totally agree on all of them having serious issues though. 

Plus, he clearly still loves his estranged wife and treats her with respect, loves and insists on a continued relationship with his children. He is the only one that I am sure would have been a really good man if he was raised in a better family. Not so sure about the rest of them.

[Snewtsie]

On 7/23/2018 at 12:57 PM, Eyes High said:

I'm not quite sure what we're supposed to believe with the dog cage story. Is Connor right that Roman enjoyed being put in the dog cage, that the "dog food" he was forced to eat was chocolate cake, and that Roman asked to be sent to military school? Or is Roman right and Connor is misremembering because the reality of the "game" was too unpleasant?

I think it's entirely plausible Roman pretended he liked the 'dog pound' game because he craved attention & approval from Kendall. Their household was not a nurturing one, so in his young mind he mistook it as affection. But it had such an effect on his psyche that it caused him to start wetting the bed.  His adult mind remembers only the humiliation and how it lead him to being sent away.

This was the first episode where I actually felt sad for Roman. I've despised him until now- but getting this insight, and learning he was cast off as a weakling was heartbreaking. Then seeing Kendall elbow him into the elevator grate further showed the dynamic is still alive. In every way.

[Snewtsie]

This was also the first episode I felt sorry for Tom. His excitement about the bachelor party showed me he probably never had friends who made him feel special. Like Roman, he craves attention & approval, and this was the first time he felt embraced.  He was a total dork with his excitement, like a big floppy dog slobbering his thankfulness over the group. I felt bad for Tom's friends who flew in to be part of the bachelor party and were excluded from joining, but that was Roman's doing. 

It was really amusing that Tom was excited about swallowing his own jizz.  Even if he was just acting that way to save face after realizing he shouldn't admitted it to the others, I was actually sort of proud of him for being so open-minded about that.

[sistermagpie]

4 hours ago, Snewtsie said:

This was also the first episode I felt sorry for Tom. His excitement about the bachelor party showed me he probably never had friends who made him feel special. Like Roman, he craves attention & approval, and this was the first time he felt embraced.  He was a total dork with his excitement, like a big floppy dog slobbering his thankfulness over the group. I felt bad for Tom's friends who flew in to be part of the bachelor party and were excluded from joining, but that was Roman's doing. 

It was really amusing that Tom was excited about swallowing his own jizz.  Even if he was just acting that way to save face after realizing he shouldn't admitted it to the others, I was actually sort of proud of him for being so open-minded about that.

I didn't get the impression the others were making Tom feel personally valued or special. He was just eager to have entrance to another super rich secret world that he was supposed to love. I wouldn't assume Tom thinks these people are the best friendships he's ever experienced because he's so enthusiastic. He's pretty open about loving the wealth.

[Roaster]

I know we have to suspend disbelief a little, but even for the super rich, the circumstances were hard to believe.

Tom (and Roman) live in New York and the wedding will be in the UK, but they go to Prague for a bachelor party?  How indulgent is that?

A secret nightclub accessed through some sort of train tunnel or drain system?  And then, inside, you run into other super-rich people who you might be able to make a business deal with.  It's the paranoid conspiracy theories about Davos or Bilderberg.

I did like how Roman was somewhat responsible in this episode and did not get wasted on drugs.  He even counseled older brother Conn about not taking multiple pills.

[Snewtsie]

29 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I didn't get the impression the others were making Tom feel personally valued or special. He was just eager to have entrance to another super rich secret world that he was supposed to love. I wouldn't assume Tom thinks these people are the best friendships he's ever experienced because he's so enthusiastic. He's pretty open about loving the wealth.

I agree they didn't do anything particularly special and it's pretty clear they don't care for him much- but he is so hungry to be part of that family, he was eating it up and enjoying every second. He seemed very childlike.  I really don't like Tom, he's a sociopath, but his unbridled enthusiasm & eagerness displayed his vulnerability, and it made me feel empathy for the creep.

[Snewtsie]

16 minutes ago, Roaster said:

I know we have to suspend disbelief a little, but even for the super rich, the circumstances were hard to believe.

Tom (and Roman) live in New York and the wedding will be in the UK, but they go to Prague for a bachelor party?  How indulgent is that?

A secret nightclub accessed through some sort of train tunnel or drain system?  And then, inside, you run into other super-rich people who you might be able to make a business deal with.  It's the paranoid conspiracy theories about Davos or Bilderberg.

I did like how Roman was somewhat responsible in this episode and did not get wasted on drugs.  He even counseled older brother Conn about not taking multiple pills.

Actually, they didn't go to Prague. The club was in NYC.  I'm not sure if they were ever planning to go to Prague, or if it was just a cover Roman used to keep their plans secret. 

I know people who have gone to underground parties like that, and have indeed spotted extremely famous businessmen.  It happens.

I liked how Roman was the responsible one, too. The whole episode made me see him in a whole new light.

[Jordan Baker]

I've been watching Season 1 for the last few weeks, and I've been enjoying the show even as I cringe through some of the scenes. This episode was just crazy.

What I like about Succession is that the acting is superb. It's to his great credit that Matthew MacFayden, who was SO memorable as the cool, detached Mr. Darcy, complete embraces the doofus that is Tom. It's a wonderful performance. 

The only other one of the main characters that I've seen before is Kieran Culkin. I saw him at the MCC theater in NYC in 2004. He was paired with Brian Dennehy in a very creepy playlet about a child abduction. (I had to look at my Playbill to be sure it was Kieran Culkin. I only remembered that it was one of the Culkins.) He's great as Roman.

They're all great. 

But this episode. Man. 

I'm looking forward to Shiv's wedding. I think.

[SlovakPrincess]

For heaven's sake, Frank, move on with your life.  Why is he still dealing with anyone in this family?  I guess he just feels bad for Kendall.

Tom keeps basically asking Shiv to tell him what to do, and she simply does not care about his problems or questions.  If he weren't so awful, I might feel bad for him.  I actually do kinda feel bad that instead of going to Prague he got taken to this horrible sex party in a train tunnel.  I'm also mildly shocked he had actual friends (but now that he's abandoned them outside a train tunnel, possibly not anymore).

I did not see that Senator, Shiv's new boss, melting down like that on ATN.  Whoops, Shiv.  

I'm with Greg, that party was nightmarish.

Edited December 17, 2022 by SlovakPrincess