S04.E03: Episode 3

[Meredith Quill]

Episode Synopsis:

Ross faces the challenge of Parliament and the Warleggans refuse to accept defeat. In Cornwall, Demelza contends with a failing mine and fixing Drake's broken heart. Dwight and Caroline welcome a baby daughter. Ossie meanwhile tends to a dying parishioner and George hosts an extravagant party at Trenwith.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I am very confused. How much time lapsed between last week and tonight? Six months? Yet it’s clear that the children were SORASED.

And Geoffrey Charles!

What’s wrong with Baby Sarah?

So close, thisclose to seeing Ross shirtless!!!

And I can’t keep up with these new characters or that dying one to figure out what’s going on.

The back and forth of the same damn thing between Ross and Demelza was getting tiresome. Here’s hoping that’s come to and end.

[TigerLynx]

Damn, Ross, I was starting to like you a little, and then you manage to ruin that the last few minutes of the episode.  You cheated on your wife.  You have a child with another woman.  You go to Elizabeth's home knowing it could cause trouble for her.  You go home to Demezla and started up the same idiotic conversation again.  You are not some poor wronged innocent party.  You more than contributed to the current situation.  How both Demezla and Elizabeth refrained from smacking Ross I do not know.

Die George and Die Ozzie.  I wish these idiots a painful miserable horrendous death.

I hope they don't kill Baby Sarah.

[lucindabelle]

Well at least he TOLD her he visited Elizabeth. It was a drunken impulse not even his own idea.

I hope baby Sarah is all right. That music was a foreshadowing. I love the way Caroline always says the opposite of what she really feels About baby and motherhood.

 

im confused because it seemed last episode Ross and Demelza were a-ok. So their being estranged seemed out of left field (other than natural shyness at having been separated for eight months).

wasnt valentine a toddler just last week?

i like rosina and much as I’m sorry for Morwenna and loathe her husband- it’s time for Drake to move on.

[BusyOctober]

So when George was in Parliament,  Elizabeth went to London on occasion, right?  If he was re-elected, George & Elizabeth planned to move to London while government was in session.  But, Ross gets elected (and apparently leaves for Westminster on the next coach 6 hours later), and HE STAYS AWAY FOR 6+ MONTHS???  No visits home???  Not even @ Christmas to see the kids???  No invite to your wife to come for a week or two???  I know the Poldarks may not have all the money the Warleggans do, and Demelza is overseeing the farm & the kids & the mine, but she couldn't get away for a long weekend??  Ross may have his convictions and want to fight for the good fight, but I'm sure there were other MP's who had farms or businesses in their home towns.  Did they all just up and vanish for the year too? Did the House of Commons run a sweat shop?  Were MP's expected to be onsite or on call 24/7 for the duration of their terms?

Ross is getting on my nerves with his pouty, put-upon, poor me attitude.  Dude, YOU slept with your ex and made it clear to your wife that you had feelings for Elizabeth for YEARS.  You even have a (not so) secret love child with her.  Your wife has forgiven you over & over.  She has tried to tell you she is over her fling with the woefully bad Emo poet (RIP, angsty youth).  Demelza has given you all signs she wants to reconnect, and you keep finding reasons to run away & eff it up. 

Are they setting up Geoffrey Charles to become a 18th century frat boy?  Running around drunk and getting into trouble or racking up gambling debts like his dear ol' dad?  Until it gets so bad that (surprise) George refuses to help, & (double surprise) Elizabeth implores Ross to intervene and (once again, surprise!) save the day?

Baby Sarah had better get well quick! I know a lot of babies died in infancy in the 1790's, but not this baby, please!!!   

[sas616]

17 minutes ago, BusyOctober said:

So when George was in Parliament,  Elizabeth went to London on occasion, right?  If he was re-elected, George & Elizabeth planned to move to London while government was in session.  But, Ross gets elected (and apparently leaves for Westminster on the next coach 6 hours later), and HE STAYS AWAY FOR 6+ MONTHS???  No visits home???  Not even @ Christmas to see the kids???  No invite to your wife to come for a week or two???  I know the Poldarks may not have all the money the Warleggans do, and Demelza is overseeing the farm & the kids & the mine, but she couldn't get away for a long weekend??  Ross may have his convictions and want to fight for the good fight, but I'm sure there were other MP's who had farms or businesses in their home towns.  Did they all just up and vanish for the year too? Did the House of Commons run a sweat shop?  Were MP's expected to be onsite or on call 24/7 for the duration of their terms?

Ross is getting on my nerves with his pouty, put-upon, poor me attitude.  Dude, YOU slept with your ex and made it clear to your wife that you had feelings for Elizabeth for YEARS.  You even have a (not so) secret love child with her.  Your wife has forgiven you over & over.  She has tried to tell you she is over her fling with the woefully bad Emo poet (RIP, angsty youth).  Demelza has given you all signs she wants to reconnect, and you keep finding reasons to run away & eff it up. 

Are they setting up Geoffrey Charles to become a 18th century frat boy?  Running around drunk and getting into trouble or racking up gambling debts like his dear ol' dad?  Until it gets so bad that (surprise) George refuses to help, & (double surprise) Elizabeth implores Ross to intervene and (once again, surprise!) save the day?

Baby Sarah had better get well quick! I know a lot of babies died in infancy in the 1790's, but not this baby, please!!!   

I wouldn't expect Demelza to hop a carriage for a London visit.   Cornwall isn't exactly in the next town.  The trip would take days and days to get there and the same for the trip home.  When people traveled that far, they'd likely stay for several weeks.    I just re-watched these episodes from the original Poldark series and cannot believe how they changed Monk Adderley's character.  Still don't know why they dropped Jud from this remake.   They seems to have passed his part on the Tholly (think that's his name), who didn't have such a large role in the original. 

[lucindabelle]

George isn’t bands on at trenwith so Elizabeth can easily get away. Indeed they were planning for the whole family to be in London.

 

it was NOT easy to get fo “town.” That’s why debutantes had a “seaso “- the season corresponded with when the House of Lords sat and it literally would be the first and probably only time the young people would meet since their family seats were in feudal homes separated by miles and miles.

boys might get sent to school but girls did not.

 

a tutor for a two year old?!

[Neurochick]

1 hour ago, BusyOctober said:

So when George was in Parliament,  Elizabeth went to London on occasion, right?  If he was re-elected, George & Elizabeth planned to move to London while government was in session.  But, Ross gets elected (and apparently leaves for Westminster on the next coach 6 hours later), and HE STAYS AWAY FOR 6+ MONTHS???  No visits home???  Not even @ Christmas to see the kids???  No invite to your wife to come for a week or two???  I know the Poldarks may not have all the money the Warleggans do, and Demelza is overseeing the farm & the kids & the mine, but she couldn't get away for a long weekend??  Ross may have his convictions and want to fight for the good fight, but I'm sure there were other MP's who had farms or businesses in their home towns.  Did they all just up and vanish for the year too? Did the House of Commons run a sweat shop?  Were MP's expected to be onsite or on call 24/7 for the duration of their terms?

In the book you get more of an understanding how LONG the trip was between London and Cornwall, it wasn't exactly a few hours drive.

[dubbel zout]

12 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

I hope they don't kill Baby Sarah.

She's likely a goner, given that Dwight and Pug Lady have had too much happiness for a while now.

1 hour ago, sas616 said:

When people traveled that far, they'd likely stay for several weeks.

Which was one reason Verity (welcome back!) said she was going to make the most of her visit to Cornwall and visit Ross and his family.

[nodorothyparker]

Not to get too far into book talk, but traveling was a much bigger deal at this time to the point that when you went somewhere of any distance it was expected that you'd be there for some duration.  There simply wasn't any getting away to ye olde London for the weekend from Cornwall.  It was a five-day carriage ride one way.  Ross, being the new kid on the block, is taking his initial appearance in Parliament very seriously to make his mark as you might expect of someone like Ross.  Lots of MPs came and went a lot, which Monk Adderley and even George to a lesser extent are more representative of.  Monk is just an extreme example of some of the society/upper crust types who didn't particularly care that they were supposed to be there to do a job and represent any interests but their own and were primarily concerned about the powerful connections they could make as holders of those seats.  That's what George is aspiring to now.

It's worth noting that as a miner's daughter, Demelza has never been out of Cornwall.  The idea of her travelling that kind of distance by herself likely never would have occurred to her.  The show actually did a nice job of showing how provincial most people of the time were with the miners suddenly treating Ross like he'd been to the moon and was too important to be hanging out with them now and doing the things they used to do together on his return.  It plays into the sense of displacement Ross was struggling with throughout much of this.  Sure, he and Demelza had mostly been okay before he left, but eight months is a long time when the only contact they would have had would have been letters that didn't reach the other until days after the fact.

I love how it's become kind of a running punchline that men from Illogan, where the Carne family is also from, show up periodically just to get into fights with our locals with the wind and waves as a picturesque backdrop.  After making up with his mates, of course Ross was feeling just the right combination of cocky and nostalgic to go take a look at the goings on at Trenwith.  In all fairness, it does have to sting a little to see the family home you've had run of your entire life closed to you and in the hands of your ridiculous mortal enemy.  At least he made it out of there without causing an altercation and had the sense to tell Demelza about it instead of letting her find out from someone else.

It's nice to see Verity again.  And a much more grown up Geoffrey Charles, even if he's going through some serious growing pains right now.

[Ohiopirate02]

Another reason why Demelza and the kids would not be going to visit Ross in London is the fact that the Poldark's do not have a London residence.  Ross would have to rent rooms somewhere in the city and he probably cannot afford something big enough for the whole family.  So even if the Poldarks had someone trustworthy enough to manage the estate and the mine, they could not afford for all of them to live in London for months. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

I’m probably going to get reamed for this, but I haven’t seen that Demelza is willing to move forward. Every time Ross asked her, she came back with a question-“I don’t know Ross, can we?”

And not for nothing but the way she was bawling and crying when that emo emotionally blackmailing twat died, gave me the impression he’d been her one true love. Continuing to read and hide his letters didn’t seem to me she wanted to move forward.

I’m not dismissing Ross’s infidelity, but it wasn’t an ongoing affair he had with Lizzy. And he finally did tell her what he felt when he was in the church with her. Like I posted above, the constant see-sawing of these two was getting irksome. I’m hoping we’re done with it.

[nodorothyparker]

Demelza's aggravating because it feels like she wants to build Hugh up to be a much bigger deal than he really was in the grand scheme of things.  Like she wants to put this brief flirtation and pseudo courtship with a boy band poet that got way out of hand on equal footing with a lifelong obsession that also badly went sideways.  That's not to say Ross wasn't a complete asshat about the whole Elizabeth debacle, but it's like Demelza doesn't want to remember that she did in fact choose to work things out with Ross to the point of having another child with him afterward.  Note that I'm not saying Demelza doesn't have the right to still feel what she feels about the ongoing Elizabeth-Valentine situation right up the road but the two things really aren't equivalent, yet she keeps trying to equate them to Ross and then getting upset when he responds as if they were.

[HunterHunted]

5 hours ago, sas616 said:

I wouldn't expect Demelza to hop a carriage for a London visit.   Cornwall isn't exactly in the next town.  The trip would take days and days to get there and the same for the trip home.  When people traveled that far, they'd likely stay for several weeks.

 

3 hours ago, Neurochick said:

In the book you get more of an understanding how LONG the trip was between London and Cornwall, it wasn't exactly a few hours drive.

 

3 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Not to get too far into book talk, but traveling was a much bigger deal at this time to the point that when you went somewhere of any distance it was expected that you'd be there for some duration.  There simply wasn't any getting away to ye olde London for the weekend from Cornwall.  It was a five-day carriage ride one way.

Even in the US before the interstate highway system was built, traveling in automobiles still used to be a longer more involved process. The reason U.S. Route 66 is so iconic is because it was the major East West road from the 30s until the completion of the interstate highway system. It was 2400 miles long, mostly direct, and two lanes most of the way. Of course there are a lot of diners, gas stations, and motels along it because it took forever to travel. I have a coworker when I lived and worked in Cleveland Ohio. She lived in Canton and commuted everyday. She remarked at the irony of her making that trip daily when she and her family used to vacation at Lake Erie for a week from Canton when she was a kid. The trip was about an hour on the interstate one way, but on the old US route it was at least 2 hours one way.

There is a reason the Spanish built their missions between 50 and 60 miles apart because that's about the max distance a rider on horseback can travel per day. Coaches were even slower. Cornwall is about 280 miles from London. Five or six days by coach sounds about right.

Furthermore, George's primary source of income is banking. It doesn't require the type on hands oversight that Ross' mine does. George is also just wealthier than Ross. Ross cannot afford to have his income interests be ignored for 3 weeks (10 days of travel both ways) and a little over a week in London and the costs to put up Demelza and the kids.

I'm curious about the type of birth defect that Sarah might exhibit that Dwight might observe that everyone else might miss. I wonder if it's scleral. Some of those are subtle and can be hard to pick up when a baby is just born because eye color changes a decent amount in the first year.

[Sharon]

I got the impression baby Sarah can’t see. Dwight was tracking light across the crib and the baby didn’t react to the light. And noting right after birth about all babies having blue eyes seems another clue for me. We’ll see I guess. 

[Ohiopirate02]

One thing bothering me about this production is the way they keep styling Demelza like a young unmarried girl.  She is now about 30, a mother of multiple children, and the wife of a member of parliament.   I don't expect her to be made up like Caroline or Elizabeth,  but she can at least attempt a simple updo without a ladies maid.  It's hard for the viewer to note the passage of time when they keep styling Demelza in season 4 like season 1

[Zella]

Caroline has grown on me. I couldn't stand her when she first appeared, but now, I usually appreciate her and find her charming. But I found her really obnoxious in this episode, though she was clearly teasing. I suspect she is going to deeply regret the flippant comments she made in jest. :(

Do most babies have blue eyes when they're first born? I can definitely see that being true for Dwight and Caroline's baby. We have a lot of dark-eyed brunettes in the family, so most of us (myself included) are born with dark brown eyes. 

I find the depiction of the relationship between Ross and Demelza confusing. I get why she cannot be in London and he cannot be in Cornwall, but their interactions with each other didn't make sense given how they had parted and didn't seem indicated in the letters they were exchanging. It just kind of seems like drama for the sake of drama. 

[TigerLynx]

8 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I’m probably going to get reamed for this, but I haven’t seen that Demelza is willing to move forward. Every time Ross asked her, she came back with a question-“I don’t know Ross, can we?”

And not for nothing but the way she was bawling and crying when that emo emotionally blackmailing twat died, gave me the impression he’d been her one true love. Continuing to read and hide his letters didn’t seem to me she wanted to move forward.

I’m not dismissing Ross’s infidelity, but it wasn’t an ongoing affair he had with Lizzy. And he finally did tell her what he felt when he was in the church with her. Like I posted above, the constant see-sawing of these two was getting irksome. I’m hoping we’re done with it.

I thought Demelza answered Ross' question that way because he keeps on asking it.  As in, "How many times are you going to ask if we can move forward, Ross?"  I have a vision of 10 years from now - Ross "Can we move forward?"  Demezla, "I don't now Ross, it's been 10 fucking years.  Can we?"

2 hours ago, Sharon said:

I got the impression baby Sarah can’t see. Dwight was tracking light across the crib and the baby didn’t react to the light. And noting right after birth about all babies having blue eyes seems another clue for me. We’ll see I guess. 

I didn't notice that.  Thank you for pointing it out.

[Nidratime]

Quote

One thing bothering me about this production is the way they keep styling Demelza like a young unmarried girl.  She is now about 30, a mother of multiple children, and the wife of a member of parliament.   I don't expect her to be made up like Caroline or Elizabeth,  but she can at least attempt a simple updo without a ladies maid.  It's hard for the viewer to note the passage of time when they keep styling Demelza in season 4 like season 1

I so agree! That's the one thing I appreciated about the 1970's production. Demelza definitely was styled and dressed a bit more sophisticated as time passed and her husband's fortunes changed. She almost always looks like a milkmaid in this production, unless going to a party.

[Zella]

I could have sworn I read or watched an interview with Eleanor Tomlinson during a past season where she was gushing that Demelza's hair was loose to show she was a free spirit. It made me roll my eyes pretty hard, and I blame whoever is supposed to be in charge of historical accuracy. (I also suspect it is pandering to perceived 21st century audience preferences about hair.)

Demelza has, after her inauspicious start, carved out a role in Cornish society in which most of the gentry accept her. I don't think that would happen in real life if she continued to wear her hair like a little girl. 

[Nidratime]

What's so free about having your long hair flying in your face. Most women working their farms, taking care of their kids, running their husband's mine (Heh.) would want their hair up and out of their face.

[Zella]

18 minutes ago, Nidratime said:

What's so free about having your long hair flying in your face. Most women working their farms, taking care of their kids, running their husband's mine (Heh.) would want their hair up and out of their face.

I agree--it makes no sense. 

[Nidratime]

Not only that, but it isn't how adult women of Demelza's station would be dressed. Ross is not as poor as he was when he married Demelza. She has the means to wear better clothes than the women in the village! I am so sick of seeing her look like Zacky's wife rather than the wife of a Member of Parliament.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Nidratime

[Zella]

The show really seems to struggle with incorporating period-appropriate behavior unless it is necessary for a plot point.

I am still floored by their depiction of Caroline's tavern behavior in a previous season. It would have been so shockingly scandalous, and nobody batted an eye! 

By this point, Demelza is not the diamond in the rough she was as a servant. She's been around long enough to know the basic rules and has proven herself a shrewd negotiator of the gentry social scene, so it can't be chalked up to ignorance on her part anymore. 

Edited October 16, 2018 by Zella

[HoodlumSheep]

Baby sarah :( it does look like it could be a vision problem. Hopefully it's not something worse. 

Didn't comment on last weeks episode, so woohoo! We're free of Teeny bopper poet boy!!!...is what i'd like to say if he wasn't being mentioned every two seconds. :/

Verity!!! Miss you.

Jeffy boy's momentarily back from hogwarts! Hurrah! Glad he gets to see ross in london. Don't take after your father too much, now. 

Enter another mustache twirler! Will he be george's new evil bestie? 

That fight on the beach felt so random and misplaced. Some old guy sent some cronies to beat up the pirate. Okay.  I guess something was needed so ross could re-bond with the boys, but it was so awkward.

Morwenna's sis continues to be awful. She and Ossie should just run off and be awful together somewhere far away. Introducing (?) his mom for just one quick scene in the beginning was pretty awkward too. What was the point?

Stop trying to force that girly on drake. Just back off please. Demelza needs to take some advice from verity and elizabeth and vow to not meddle.

[TigerLynx]

I feel so bad for Morwenna.  Her marriage encompasses every bad thing about a forced arranged marriage, and shows how stupid and horrible they are especially for the woman.  If Morwenna had been allowed to marry the man she loved, and Ozzie had married Morwenna's sister, Ozzie could have gotten all the sex he wanted, Morwenna's sister would have the money she craves, and if in the end they still all wound up miserable at least it would have been their choice that put them there.

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, Nidratime said:

What's so free about having your long hair flying in your face. Most women working their farms, taking care of their kids, running their husband's mine (Heh.) would want their hair up and out of their face.

Especially when you live on the coast.  

 

 

I'm glad that I'm not the only one bothered by the styling of Demelza.  It was pretty jarring in an episode that included Verity and Rosina.  Demelza should look more like Verity than Rosina.   Even poor Rowella looks more put together than Demelza. 

[Magnumfangirl]

On 10/14/2018 at 9:19 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

I am very confused. How much time lapsed between last week and tonight? Six months? Yet it’s clear that the children were SORASED.

And Geoffrey Charles!

Caroline announced her pregnancy last week, had the baby in this week's ep, and the baby is maybe 3 months old at the end; so a year past since Ross left for London and the endthis episode. Geoffrey Charles is only about 12 or 13 now, right?  Why did they hire an actor who's taller than all the adults?    Valentine,  Jeremy, and Clowance aged far more than a year in that time!  Why would they SORAS them? It's not like they have much to do except look cute at this point.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Magnumfangirl

[HunterHunted]

3 hours ago, Zella said:

Do most babies have blue eyes when they're first born? I can definitely see that being true for Dwight and Caroline's baby. We have a lot of dark-eyed brunettes in the family, so most of us (myself included) are born with dark brown eyes. 

Eye color is probably a little bit all over the place depending on the population. So I and my siblings who are all Nigerian had much much lighter eyes as newborns, mostly hazel except my youngest brother. Actually, we're Igbo, which has had many years of coloration deviation. I have a brother who married a Nigerian woman from another part of Nigeria; their kids had brown eyes at birth. Another married an African-American woman; two kids had brown eyes and one did not. Another married an American woman of eastern European heritage; all 3 of their kids had light eyes.

[Jacks-Son]

Still watching the episode so haven't even seen enough to form opinions,  HOWEVER, my eyes lit upon the name Ruby Benthal in the opening credits and I immediately felt better.  My girl is back and during the episode, like her name, she is strewing bold truths as she talks.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Jacks-Son

[Zella]

27 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

Eye color is probably a little bit all over the place depending on the population. So I and my siblings who are all Nigerian had much much lighter eyes as newborns, mostly hazel except my youngest brother. Actually, we're Igbo, which has had many years of coloration deviation. I have a brother who married a Nigerian woman from another part of Nigeria; their kids had brown eyes at birth. Another married an African-American woman; two kids had brown eyes and one did not. Another married an American woman of eastern European heritage; all 3 of their kids had light eyes.

Very interesting!  Thank you! 

[Jacks-Son]

Ross implied that Elizabeth was not unwelcoming and they spoke a bit.  Critiquing their conversation was simple enough, they were both courteous and spoke to each other like old friends who knew each other well. Their conversation was informative and not accusatory.  However, their body language was something different.   Ross, was his usual charming self but was not suggestive; Elizabeth, on the other hand, was damn near flirtatious (lots of side–eye and sexy smile).  All of this has got me suspicious of her rather sudden change in demeanor towards Ross and her seeming duplicitous behavior when dealing with both Ross and her sister-in-law. I was wondering, what would happen if ELIZABETH seduced Ross and got pregnant again by Ross,  she could say, "See, he has that same obvious mass of black hair that you noticed was different than GC's blond hair, it runs in my family." (and Ross has nothing to do with it.)

IMHO, Sarah is blind.  I didn't notice the lack of her tracking the light of the window, but I did notice the lack of tracking on Dwight's face.  As if, Sarah responded to touch and not the sight of Dwight. I hope that's not the cause for Caroline leaving Dwight

Edited October 16, 2018 by Jacks-Son

[HunterHunted]

11 hours ago, HoodlumSheep said:

Morwenna's sis continues to be awful. She and Ossie should just run off and be awful together somewhere far away.

They loathe each other, but are happy to use the other person. Their current arrangement is the perfect situation for them. If they had to spend more time together, it would quickly turn into a Virginia Woolf type debacle.

[nodorothyparker]

13 hours ago, Zella said:

Do most babies have blue eyes when they're first born? I can definitely see that being true for Dwight and Caroline's baby. We have a lot of dark-eyed brunettes in the family, so most of us (myself included) are born with dark brown eyes. 

Most Caucasian babies have either blue or gray eyes at birth.  My oldest's eventually went from dark grey to very blue in a throwback to my father.  The younger siblings went from gray to dark brown like both their parents.

The styling on this show has always bugged me.  All the long hair flying about freely is a very romance novel idea of history.  I get that they're probably going for Demelza remaining true to her more humble roots at least in the everyday, but as she and Ross have come up in the world she would be all the more aware of reflecting that.  She doesn't have to be Elizabeth dolled up in drop curls and brocade to lounge about the house to still set herself apart from the household servants or villagers.  I've idly wondered how much of the styling has to do with Eleanor Tomlinson having a very angular face that does look better framed with all the loose hair.  She's not unattractive by any means, but the couple of times they have dressed her hair anything close to period appropriately it made the lines of her face look very harsh in comparison.

[Zella]

1 hour ago, nodorothyparker said:

Most Caucasian babies have either blue or gray eyes at birth.  My oldest's eventually went from dark grey to very blue in a throwback to my father.  The younger siblings went from gray to dark brown like both their parents.

The styling on this show has always bugged me.  All the long hair flying about freely is a very romance novel idea of history.  I get that they're probably going for Demelza remaining true to her more humble roots at least in the everyday, but as she and Ross have come up in the world she would be all the more aware of reflecting that.  She doesn't have to be Elizabeth dolled up in drop curls and brocade to lounge about the house to still set herself apart from the household servants or villagers.  I've idly wondered how much of the styling has to do with Eleanor Tomlinson having a very angular face that does look better framed with all the loose hair.  She's not unattractive by any means, but the couple of times they have dressed her hair anything close to period appropriately it made the lines of her face look very harsh in comparison.

Thank you! I guess for my family it's hair color that changes from birth and through early adulthood, not eye color. My brother's blue-eyed and was born that way.  His hair is considerably darker than it was at birth, which I gather is pretty normal,  too, but mine is actually a bit lighter than when I was born though it has gone through several shades on its own. 

You might be on to something about styling Tomlinson.  She's a beautiful woman, but they very well could be softening her face shape with her hair down.

[RachelKM]

1 hour ago, Zella said:

You might be on to something about styling Tomlinson.  She's a beautiful woman, but they very well could be softening her face shape with her hair down.

I don't think that is the issue.  These photos are not precisely the same era, but it shows Tomlinson with her hair in an updo: 

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1870434/mediaviewer/rm269622784

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1870434/mediaviewer/rm402736384

There doesn't seem to be an aesthetic issue other than the choice of styling Demelza.

Also, there was the period on the show where Demelza wore her hair up. 

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1870434/mediaviewer/rm2183077376

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1870434/mediaviewer/rm455024128

[Jacks-Son]

I prefer Demelza with just the everyday, casual look.  

 

Jeans, or with mates at the local pub.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Jacks-Son

[JudyObscure]

Look at her in number 23 of that top link.  In season one Demelza was almost completely flat chested  and I thought that was part of her slender, natural beauty.  Then a new season came along and she had obviously had surgery.  Okay, fine, her choice.  But since then it seems either she or the show has been determined to get their money's worth and there she is, helping the miners in the cold wind, or slaving around her own house, while wearing tight, push-up corsets and very low cut dresses that would have only been worn as evening wear.  Elizabeth and Caroline don't have their boobs in everyone's face on a daily basis, why does Demelza?  That plus the wild hair make her look like a loose woman.

[lucindabelle]

On 10/16/2018 at 10:43 AM, nodorothyparker said:

Most Caucasian babies have either blue or gray eyes at birth.  My oldest's eventually went from dark grey to very blue in a throwback to my father.  The younger siblings went from gray to dark brown like both their parents.

 

Not sure that's true. I'm extremely fair-- as in literally have seldom if ever met someone paler than I-- but my eyes were dark brown at birth, according to mom, as were my older brother's. 

[RachelKM]

5 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Look at her in number 23 of that top link.  In season one Demelza was almost completely flat chested  and I thought that was part of her slender, natural beauty.  Then a new season came along and she had obviously had surgery.  Okay, fine, her choice.  But since then it seems either she or the show has been determined to get their money's worth and there she is, helping the miners in the cold wind, or slaving around her own house, while wearing tight, push-up corsets and very low cut dresses that would have only been worn as evening wear.  Elizabeth and Caroline don't have their boobs in everyone's face on a daily basis, why does Demelza?  That plus the wild hair make her look like a loose woman.

I have no idea whether Tomlinson has had any augmentation, but the flatness in that picture is more due to the style of corset for part of the late 18th Century. If you look at pictures of Elizabeth and Verity from the first season, they also often look pretty flat.  Elizabeth wears lower necklines in that season, so there's some push up evident, but it's still a shelf where the dress is.  Demelza's dress has a high scoop so nothing shows. Also, Tomlinson is very thin, so it's less clear that she's being flattened.

The turn of the 19th century (where we are now) moved more toward the look with the empire waist when they began to downplay hips and emphasis busts.

In any case, if you move along the same link (or any of them, they're all linked to specific parts of the same image series) to the pictures from 2013, it's clear she Tomlinson was not completely flat even then.

Also, loose woman?  Do you mean for the mores of the time? 

[Jacks-Son]

2 hours ago, RachelKM said:

Also, loose woman?  Do you mean for the mores of the time? 

It seems a bit judgmental. Demelza is well respected in the town.  In fact, the only person that dislikes her is George.  Even Elizabeth respects her; Verity considers her family; miners’ wives respect her and consider her one of them; Caroline considers her a BFF. If anyone would be so unaware as to consider Demelza a “loose woman” based on her attire and hair, then fuck ‘em, they’re not worth consideration.  Demelza works very hard and is probably the #1 person besides Ross that someone would seek help from.  I like the scene where Demelza and Verity are sitting around and Demelza is playing Matchmaker.  Those two are my favorite when they’re together.  Verity is so sweet, she’s smart & observant and can follow conversational sub-text. It won’t be long before she figures out the Hugh fiasco.  I’m looking forward to that reveal. Will Verity be understanding, or will she be disappointed with Demelza?

[Neurochick]

On 10/15/2018 at 10:01 PM, HoodlumSheep said:

Morwenna's sis continues to be awful. She and Ossie should just run off and be awful together somewhere far away. Introducing (?) his mom for just one quick scene in the beginning was pretty awkward too. What was the point?

I think Morwenna's sister is playing Ossie like a cheap fiddle.

[RachelKM]

24 minutes ago, Jacks-Son said:

It seems a bit judgmental. Demelza is well respected in the town.  In fact, the only person that dislikes her is George.  Even Elizabeth respects her; Verity considers her family; miners’ wives respect her and consider her one of them; Caroline considers her a BFF. If anyone would be so unaware as to consider Demelza a “loose woman” based on her attire and hair, then fuck ‘em, they’re not worth consideration.  Demelza works very hard and is probably the #1 person besides Ross that someone would seek help from.  I like the scene where Demelza and Verity are sitting around and Demelza is playing Matchmaker.  Those two are my favorite when they’re together.  Verity is so sweet, she’s smart & observant and can follow conversational sub-text. It won’t be long before she figures out the Hugh fiasco.  I’m looking forward to that reveal. Will Verity be understanding, or will she be disappointed with Demelza?

I agree that people seem to generally respect Demelza and I would happily say fuck'em to anyone who judged her for wearing her hair loose and un-styled. I understand the point many are making, though, that it isn't consistent with the times.  Demelza has been the wife of a gentleman and now PM for two decades.  It well past the point where she would have adjusted her style to at least reflect her station.  I mean, if you look at season 1, she went from absolute ragamuffin with soot on her face and a cloth protecting her head to dresses and hair up. It's just odd that her styling has actually regressed since S1.

And really, it's sort of idiotic for a woman who is working so hard to wear her hair down and blowing in the wind across her face.  There is a reason women tie their hair back to work, It's fucking annoying. 

[JudyObscure]

3 hours ago, RachelKM said:

I have no idea whether Tomlinson has had any augmentation, but the flatness in that picture is more due to the style of corset for part of the late 18th Century. If you look at pictures of Elizabeth and Verity from the first season, they also often look pretty flat.  Elizabeth wears lower necklines in that season, so there's some push up evident, but it's still a shelf where the dress is.  Demelza's dress has a high scoop so nothing shows. Also, Tomlinson is very thin, so it's less clear that she's being flattened.

The turn of the 19th century (where we are now) moved more toward the look with the empire waist when they began to downplay hips and emphasis busts.

In any case, if you move along the same link (or any of them, they're all linked to specific parts of the same image series) to the pictures from 2013, it's clear she Tomlinson was not completely flat even then.

Also, loose woman?  Do you mean for the mores of the time? 

 

25 minutes ago, Jacks-Son said:

It seems a bit judgmental. Demelza is well respected in the town.  In fact, the only person that dislikes her is George.  Even Elizabeth respects her; Verity considers her family; miners’ wives respect her and consider her one of them; Caroline considers her a BFF. If anyone would be so unaware as to consider Demelza a “loose woman” based on her attire and hair, then fuck ‘em, they’re not worth consideration.  Demelza works very hard and is probably the #1 person besides Ross that someone would seek help from.  I like the scene where Demelza and Verity are sitting around and Demelza is playing Matchmaker.  Those two are my favorite when they’re together.  Verity is so sweet, she’s smart & observant and can follow conversational sub-text. It won’t be long before she figures out the Hugh fiasco.  I’m looking forward to that reveal. Will Verity be understanding, or will she be disappointed with Demelza?

I said the low cut clothes,  "make her look like a loose woman."  Look like being the operative words.  If she actually was a loose woman like the one George had around in season one, the clothing choices of the costume department would have been appropriate and I wouldn't be complaining about them.  It's the very fact that she is a respectable woman that makes the dresses inappropriate. I was not being judgmental of the character known as  Demelza, (and lets try to remember that she is a character, not a real person) but rather critical of the choice of revealing costumes for her to wear during the day.  choices made  by the costume department not the character or the actress. Only because I think such clothes   were reserved for the evening at that time. 

Did I mean "loose woman" in the vernacular of the time.  Of course.  I would have thought that went without saying since we are discussing the mores of that time, but I'll say it one more time.  I do not think Demelza is a  sex worker.

My comment followed several comments saying they didn't think a woman of Demelza's class would be wearing her hair flowing free all the time and I agree with that. Is it judgmental of Demelza to question the decisions of the show's hair and make up department?  I certainly don't think so, but then some people are mighty eager to call others names like "judgmental."

[Jacks-Son]

Suitably chastised, please forgive any slight inferred. As you state, Demelza’s state of style is wardrobe’s responsibility not Eleanor Tomlinson’s thus any conjecture that she gives off the appearance of being loose is not the character’s fault as you state but wardrobes. This show doesn’t really do character growth very well.  Look how long it takes for the characters to learn from their past. Some never change. That’s the show runner’s fault.

[Magnumfangirl]

I don't really care about Demelza's hair, but I do wish they would get her some new dresses! 

[dubbel zout]

6 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I think Morwenna's sister is playing Ossie like a cheap fiddle.

Same here. She knows exactly what she's doing. Whatever happens to Ossie, he totally deserves it.

6 hours ago, RachelKM said:

Demelza has been the wife of a gentleman and now PM for two decades.  It well past the point where she would have adjusted her style to at least reflect her station. 

Ross was only just elected to Parliament, and they don't live in London. Demelza does a lot of work around the farm that would make wearing anything fancier impractical. Plus, it's not as if they have a lot of extra cash lying around for new clothes. Ross hasn't smartened up his wardrobe either.

[Ohiopirate02]

12 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Same here. She knows exactly what she's doing. Whatever happens to Ossie, he totally deserves it.

Ross was only just elected to Parliament, and they don't live in London. Demelza does a lot of work around the farm that would make wearing anything fancier impractical. Plus, it's not as if they have a lot of extra cash lying around for new clothes. Ross hasn't smartened up his wardrobe either.

I don't expect Demelza to look like Caroline every episode, but it makes it harder for the viewer to note the passage of time when both Ross and Demelza are dressed in the same costumes from previous seasons.   I don't want to see aging makeup and bad wigs, but Ross is now middle aged.   Demelza should be dressed simply but with better fabrics than the lower class characters and she is not.

[Neurochick]

I get the passage of time when I see how the children have aged.  I really haven't noticed how Demelza dressed until I started reading the forum.  I'd rather talk about what a pig George is, than Demelza's dresses.  

[Clawdette]

I have a professional relationship with a man who loves many of the same movies and shows that I do.  I see him once or twice a year and we always have fun discussing the past seasons of television shows.  Last spring, one of the topics was season three of Poldark.  We both commented on the plunge Demelza's necklines had taken in that season.  To us, it seemed most unusual given that Demelza does so much farm work.  Wouldn't one think a higher neckline would be more conducive to keeping assets covered during myriad chores?

Surely the costumers didn't lower the bustlines in an effort to make Demelza look more mature.  If that's the case, I think it's an odd choice.