S02E05: Perverts Are People, Too 2018.06.29

[The Crazed Spruce]

Quote

A request from the network puts the producers on edge, the wrestlers capitalize on their growing fan base, and Ruth receives a surprising invitation.

[Lady Calypso]

Yes! A Carmen/Bash story! I really loved their friendship last season and as Carmen was my favourite wrestler last season, I've been waiting for the last four episodes for more Carmen. It was actually kind of neat to get more on Bash's backstory. Not only are they seeming to go full steam ahead with his sexuality, but they showed why he cares so much for Florian as his butler...as he had a really good butler at home for years. Hi, Marc Evan Jackson! Nice to see you pop by! 

I really enjoyed Sheila's story.

I'm not that surprised with how naive Ruth was about dinner with the head of the network. However, I do feel bad that Ruth felt like she was put in this tough position, and it obviously didn't turn out well for Tom Grant. But damn, Debbie went off on her for...not screwing the head of the network? The 80s were harsh.

Cherry's husband is so great. He's super supportive of Cherry, which is fantastic to see.

[thuganomics85]

Keith and Cherry are everything.  Honestly one of the most refreshing couples on television.

As soon as Ruth got the invite, I figured something bad was going to happen, and when the host told her to go the the bungalow, I knew were it was heading.  Poor Ruth: Alison Brie was fantastic throughout it all.  I especially liked the relief she had when Glen was there, only for it to go away once he left, and she was alone with Tom Grant.  Not surprised they are being punished for her leaving, and I'm sadly not surprised that Debbie is unsympathetic towards Ruth and is even blaming her for it.

Like the Bash/Carmen pair, and Bash in general is growing on me.  And I hope we see more of Marc Evan Jackson's character, because he makes everything better!

I like them going into the fandom aspects of the business as well, and Sheila's resistance towards it. 

[ketose]

My guess is that Debbie's the more conventionally attractive one, so she's had to deal with this before. This looks like Ruth's first time with it. That whole thing in the bungalow was played pretty well and not as heavy handed as it could have been given modern awareness of this kind of abuse of power. 

[Cactus]

I think Debbie would have also treated Ruth poorly if Ruth had not left the bungalow.  She would have been jealous that Tom Grant was interested in Ruth, instead of her, and slut shamed Ruth for "sleeping her way to top" as a result.

[Blakeston]

On 6/30/2018 at 12:16 AM, Lady Calypso said:

Yes! A Carmen/Bash story! I really loved their friendship last season and as Carmen was my favourite wrestler last season, I've been waiting for the last four episodes for more Carmen. It was actually kind of neat to get more on Bash's backstory. Not only are they seeming to go full steam ahead with his sexuality, but they showed why he cares so much for Florian as his butler...as he had a really good butler at home for years. Hi, Marc Evan Jackson! Nice to see you pop by! 

I really enjoyed Sheila's story.

I'm not that surprised with how naive Ruth was about dinner with the head of the network. However, I do feel bad that Ruth felt like she was put in this tough position, and it obviously didn't turn out well for Tom Grant. But damn, Debbie went off on her for...not screwing the head of the network? The 80s were harsh.

Debbie said she wanted Ruth to manipulate the network head, so that he wouldn't feel rejected even though she turned him down - by saying that she was on her period, or that she was in a relationship, etc.

That's probably something she had done herself, so I guess I can understand where she was coming from. But Ruth shouldn't have had to stay in that situation a second longer - especially because he didn't seem like the type to take no for an answer.

Re: Bash - I was surprised at how deeply uncomfortable he was in the gay club. I had assumed that he was simply a (lightly) closeted gay man with a bunch of gay friends who was a regular at the clubs. But this episode made it seem like he's a stranger to the gay scene, and that his sexual relationship with Florian is his only connection to the gay community.

[Loandbehold]

23 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

Re: Bash - I was surprised at how deeply uncomfortable he was in the gay club. I had assumed that he was simply a (lightly) closeted gay man with a bunch of gay friends who was a regular at the clubs. But this episode made it seem like he's a stranger to the gay scene, and that his sexual relationship with Florian is his only connection to the gay community.

I think that rather than being closeted, Bash is in denial of being homosexual. He loves Florian and tells himself that it's loving his best friend as a friend, but I don't think they've had sex and I also believe that this was his first time ever in a gay club. 

[mtlchick]

All through Ruth being hit on by Tom I could think of how Alison Brie had to indirectly deal with her brother in law getting mixed up in the Me Too campaign.  

[Pindrop]

16 hours ago, Blakeston said:

Debbie said she wanted Ruth to manipulate the network head, so that he wouldn't feel rejected even though she turned him down - by saying that she was on her period, or that she was in a relationship, etc.

That's probably something she had done herself, so I guess I can understand where she was coming from. But Ruth shouldn't have had to stay in that situation a second longer - especially because he didn't seem like the type to take no for an answer.

*snip*

For a show that actually has some subtlety and nuance, I felt the social commentary was a little too on the nose in the Debbie/Ruth scene. It would have been more effective if they had dialled it back to a resigned "oh shit", rather than speechifying. 

[Danny Franks]

"You're my favourite!"

"... I can see that."

Sheila's deadpan reactions are so good. She's such an intriguing character. Willing to stand out so clearly, yet also hate the idea of people paying attention to her. It makes sense that she'd be that uncomfortable with these crazy fans.

The sexual exploitation side of the show was definitely played up this week. Selling pictures to horny fans, the assumption that Ruth would sleep with the network boss. They dress Alison Brie down a lot on the show, to downplay how attractive she is, but she looks so hot as Zoya, that I can fully believe the guy would be most interested in her, of all the wrestlers.

The knowing aspect of it was what was worst. That the security guard and Glen knew that Grant was going to try to sleep with Ruth. Glen effectively set it up. And there's that moment where Ruth isn't sure whether she should do it, because she knows what it might cost professionally, for her and her colleagues, if she doesn't. And not only that, the professional cost is something she is immediately blamed for. This is why powerful people can get away with sexual harassment and assault, for anyone who still doesn't understand.

But we also got to see Cherry and Keith, in a happy, committed marriage, where they find each other just as sexually appealing as they always have.

Poor Bash is going through a bit of a crisis, professionally and personally. He's clearly gay, but seemingly hasn't come to terms with that. Definitely his first time in a gay bar, and the first time he's realised what sort of life Florian lives when he's not with Bash. Are they in a relationship? I could go either way, and I could easily buy Bash having sex with Florian but still telling himself, 'it's not gay. It's just with Florian.'

But.. Marc Evan Jackson! I didn't know he was going to be in this. That was such a sad little scene, for Bash, because I got the impression he spent so many meals like that as a child, with no one but the family butler to talk to. Again, I can't believe they managed to put this much thought and backstory and depth into what originally looked to be the rich, spoiled money behind the show.

"You're so dismissive."

"That's the longest I've ever let a woman I'm not sleeping with speak uninterrupted."

How does Sam manage to be so offensive, yet still almost likeable?

Edited July 3, 2018 by Danny Franks

[Clanstarling]

On 6/29/2018 at 9:16 PM, Lady Calypso said:

I'm not that surprised with how naive Ruth was about dinner with the head of the network. However, I do feel bad that Ruth felt like she was put in this tough position, and it obviously didn't turn out well for Tom Grant. But damn, Debbie went off on her for...not screwing the head of the network? The 80s were harsh.

I'm not sure she was naive - she was hesitant and concerned, but when the other guy was there, she relaxed a little. Until he left. As for the 80s being harsh, there would have been plenty of women who would have been on Ruth's side - but Debbie has her issues right now.

On 6/30/2018 at 5:33 AM, ketose said:

My guess is that Debbie's the more conventionally attractive one, so she's had to deal with this before. This looks like Ruth's first time with it. That whole thing in the bungalow was played pretty well and not as heavy handed as it could have been given modern awareness of this kind of abuse of power. 

I think it's more that Debbie's been more successful than Ruth and has encountered it because of that. Looks don't enter into it as much as one would think.

On 6/30/2018 at 7:43 AM, Cactus said:

I think Debbie would have also treated Ruth poorly if Ruth had not left the bungalow.  She would have been jealous that Tom Grant was interested in Ruth, instead of her, and slut shamed Ruth for "sleeping her way to top" as a result.

I agree. Debbie is in a really bad place emotionally and (somewhat justifiably) sees Ruth as the source of her problems, so it's not going to matter what Ruth did, just that Ruth has once more gotten in the way of Debbie's "happiness."

On 7/1/2018 at 8:37 AM, Loandbehold said:

I think that rather than being closeted, Bash is in denial of being homosexual. He loves Florian and tells himself that it's loving his best friend as a friend, but I don't think they've had sex and I also believe that this was his first time ever in a gay club. 

Totally agree.

On 7/2/2018 at 1:10 AM, Pindrop said:

For a show that actually has some subtlety and nuance, I felt the social commentary was a little too on the nose in the Debbie/Ruth scene. It would have been more effective if they had dialled it back to a resigned "oh shit", rather than speechifying. 

In my opinion, it reflected reality - at least the reality of the 80s. For every woman who would have backed Ruth (like me) there were those who bought into the "this is the way it is" and thought you were an idiot for complaining and/or not going along with it. I encountered a few women like that myself in the 80s as a young woman in business. For me, an "oh shit" moment wouldn't have worked at all.

[Blakeston]

On 7/1/2018 at 11:37 AM, Loandbehold said:

I think that rather than being closeted, Bash is in denial of being homosexual. He loves Florian and tells himself that it's loving his best friend as a friend, but I don't think they've had sex and I also believe that this was his first time ever in a gay club. 

He's definitely in denial about being gay. But I think the show was intentionally ambiguous about whether they'd ever had sex. There are a ton of closet cases out there who manage to convince themselves they're not gay while having gay sex.

I think at the very least they probably fooled around when they were younger.

[tennisgurl]

On 7/4/2018 at 7:43 AM, Blakeston said:

I think at the very least they probably fooled around when they were younger.

I think that might be what happened. He and Florian fooled around (or maybe even had sex) when they were younger, but while Florian realized he was gay and lived the life of a gay man, Bash went back into the closet (understandable with a super Reagan supporting family) and convinced himself that it was just something that friends do sometimes, or it was "just Florian" and was different from being a queer person. It fits into Bashes personality of being kind, but often naive and not really picking up on the subtleties of the people around him. But I think he does know, on some level, hence his nerves in the gay club. I also think Marc Evan Jackson knows what up, but doesn't want to spell it all out for Bash.

[sacrebleu]

I loved that the description of the Patio Town chair breaking so easily came back to hurt the show -- poor Bash.

As for the #metoo stuff. I find that it strains credulity that Ruth had never been exposed to a casting couch before-- as someone who's been working in Hollywood-- in that era-- for any significant amount of time.

Debbie's reaction seemed pretty on the nose, though.

(again, judging by the standards of the time, not today)

[Clanstarling]

3 hours ago, sacrebleu said:

As for the #metoo stuff. I find that it strains credulity that Ruth had never been exposed to a casting couch before-- as someone who's been working in Hollywood-- in that era-- for any significant amount of time.

Debbie's reaction seemed pretty on the nose, though.

I don't react the same way, mostly because Ruth's clearly had fewer opportunities (if any), and even then not every job involved the casting couch. She knew enough about it, however, to be anxious about going to the room, and was then relieved when the other guy was there. So it's not like she didn't know about it, she just hadn't had to deal with it.

Debbie's reaction was certainly in tune with some women I knew at the time.

Edited July 20, 2018 by Clanstarling

[dubbel zout]

7 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

She knew enough about it, however, to be anxious about going to the room, and was then relieved when the other guy was there.

I really liked the way that whole sequence was set up. She learns from the maitre d' that she has to go to the guy's room and gets a bit nervous. She sees her "friend" there so relaxes. The friend leaves and she's back to being nervous. The exec starts to harass her, but you see Ruth thinking maybe it's not harassment. Then, after the guy basically motorboats her and suggests a shower/bath/hot tub soak, she realizes she needs to get out of there and so she does. She has to walk by the maitre d' again, who knew exactly what was going on. 

[Cheezwiz]

This was a great episode.

I was a bit surprised and touched by Bash's relationship with the family butler. It didn't occur to me that Bash was inexperienced hadn't really dipped into the man-pool - I had assumed that he went clubbing regularly with friends and was only closeted to his family. The butler knew what was up and was very kind. Also nice to see him paired with Carmen again, and that that they are genuinely supportive to one another. I like that they've made Bash a decent person rather than just a spoiled rich kid.

Oh man, I knew what was coming with that whole bungalow scene, but it was just way uncomfortable to sit through. At one point I was actually worried that they had drugged Ruth's wine. So glad she was able to make an escape, but was not surprised by Debbie's brutal reaction. As others have pointed out, I don't think any course of action would have satisfied Debbie.

[SnarkEnthusiast]

On 7/1/2018 at 11:37 AM, Loandbehold said:

I think that rather than being closeted, Bash is in denial of being homosexual. He loves Florian and tells himself that it's loving his best friend as a friend, but I don't think they've had sex and I also believe that this was his first time ever in a gay club. 

See, I'm late - I thought that scene was meant to imply his discomfort with realizing Florian is gay, not that Bash is closeted and in denial about being attracted to Florian. I must be super dense because I thought Carmen and Bash would end up hooking up this season! Shows how much I pay attention, haha.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I really love the purely platonic but totally supportive friendship between Bash and Carmen. Even though Bash can be solipsistic (and OF COURSE Florian knew it), Bash is clueless rather than deliberately cruel.

Keith continues to be awesome. His phone call was hilarious.

Poor Ruth. Not only did she narrowly escape date rape, but then Debbie blamed her for the show inevitably being canceled. I really felt for her from the second she arrived at the restaurant and was directed to his bungalow. I was so glad when she ran out of there and got away from that creepy entitled jerk.

[rollacoaster]

That whole set up with Ruth and the head of the network was giving off some serious Mad Men vibes. The actor playing Tom even kind of resembled a Don Draper type. 

Also, I loooooooooooove the wardrobe on this show! Debbie's fringe skirt, Carmen's jumpsuit at the gay club, and Ruth's meeting dress are EVERYTHING.

Edited September 10, 2018 by rollacoaster
additions

[Pamela]

Man, I loved this episode. The whole club scene was brilliant. Bash's reaction once he realized it was a gay club and the way his eyes kept darting around while his face barely moved...really terrific work by Chris Lowell. And the use of Bronski Beat's "Smalltown Boy" was perfect.

[aradia22]

Cute to see them getting fans. Though it sucks to exit work in costume. And there should be security.

"All my letters are from little girls who like my hair glitter!" XD

Melrose's black two piece suit at the pool was so cute. The costuming is killer on this show.

Bash is the only one of the producers who doesn't have a grudge against Ruth. They should really stop shutting her out of creative decisions. 

Did Bash JUST realize that Florian is gay?

"Can we please stay? Rhonda's new friend Bruce says there's going to be a Pink Flamingos look alike contest and I kind of want to see everybody dressed up as flamingos." XD Oh, Carmen, you angel. Never change.

Given the thread of the episode, I was weirdly glad Ruth was actually meeting with the head of the network and not a fan who had somehow figured out her name/phone number. But of course, then I started dreading what would happen when she went to Grant's bungalow away from the restaurant... with all the other people.

"Now, see, if I got all excited when my woman was not in the mood, what kind of man would I be?" I love Keith and Cherry so damn much.

Oh, boy. Well, it could have been worse. Tom Grant was definitely skeevy but in that barely plausible deniability way. I was expecting something horrific after Glen left and Ruth seemed a little woozy from her drink. Thank God they didn't make us watch anything worse than Ruth getting felt up before she was able to run off. 

Gary! Why is Marc Evan Jackson perfect in everything? If Sam's throwaway comment last season is true then Bash is 25 and if Gary has worked for the family for 18 years, he's known Bash most of his life.

OK, I love that Ruth floated the idea of Zoya wrestling over the fate of her family's cherry orchard. Chekhov. That's so Ruth.

It was rough to sit through but accurate for Debbie to respond to Ruth's story like that. Both because of who Debbie is and also for the time period.