S02.E11: Holly

[AnswersWanted]

Quote

Offred faces a gruelling challenge alone as she recalls her life as a mother. Serena Joy and the Commander deal with the fallout of their actions towards Offred.

 

Getting us off to the races. Also...wolf? 

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

That was dull as fuck.

This was an unnecessary vanity episode for Moss. She already has her Emmy tape show. Move the story along.

I am not on the "this show is torture" bandwagon but the pacing on this show is exhausting and torturous for a viewer. Just last week, June was brutally raped and teased with a short reunion with her child. It doesn't end there, she goes into labor and delivers alone. 

They keep piling on and on and on with no reprieve and no light at the end of the tunnel. Even if I am incline to think the Waterfords don't get Holly, another Commander/Wife would which means June would have lost her baby after everything.

I am trying hard to see what the point of the never-ending suffering is. A cautionary tale can be told without relentlessness of this episode. 

Edited June 27, 2018 by Deputy Deputy CoS

[revbfc]

Great episode, but fuck you, show runners for that ending.  I don’t need any more dashed hope in my life.

[AnswersWanted]

Was that Oprah on the radio? 

[Umbelina]

Well, no one can say June didn't try there.  She gathered supplies, she tried everything to get out of that garage, she fired off shots for help, she built a fire.  The only thing she didn't do was pull that shotgun's trigger ending both of the Waterford's forever, and then taking their car.

I enjoyed the Waterford fight quite a bit.

I loved that the voice over this time seem almost straight from the book, as a matter of fact, it may be.

Elizabeth Moss doesn't need more for her Emmy reel.  She's got plenty already.  She's just that good.

[revbfc]

I need to see more detailed shots of those maps on the wall of that house.  Those may have been some juicy clues about the war to establish ROG.

[rideashire]

I couldn't even get interested in this episode because I knew she wouldn't escape. Why bother hoping when there's no chance and one thing this show does really well is strangle any ounce of hope I have. I need one good thing to happen before I start wondering why I torture myself every week.

If it ends out this season with everyone miserable I'm gonna flip a table. 

Edited June 27, 2018 by rideashire

[PepSinger]

Why. Is. It. Always. Snowing?! I live in Boston. It isn't an endless winter here.

I actually laughed out loud during the Serena/Fred fight. It was well done, but to hear Serena called Fred a "fucking idiot" and Fred saying if they end up on the wall he'd still fucking be next to her. Haha!

While the scene between June and Holly was beautiful, I need this show to move the plot along. My playwriting teacher had a rule where if a scene didn't reveal new information, then it should be cut. What was new information in this episode?

Edited June 27, 2018 by PepSinger

[AnswersWanted]

This episode rang hollow for me.

I am sick and tired of this torture game of cat and mouse they keep playing with June.

I get it, show,  she is trapped in hell and we are all along for the, so far, never ending ride and I just don’t need it.

 Also they needed a lot more goo on that “newborn”, a lot more. The lack of goo was very apparent. 

Oh, and now they decide to cast a smaller and younger Hannah for her scenes from before? Show, stop doing such simple shit so backwards. 

[mamadrama]

19 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

That was dull as fuck.

This was an unnecessary vanity episode for Moss. She already has her Emmy tape show. Move the story along.

I am not on the "this show is torture" bandwagon but the pacing on this show is exhausting and torturous for a viewer. Just last week, June was brutally raped and teased with a short reunion with her child. It doesn't end there, she goes into labor and delivers alone. 

They keep piling on and on and on with no reprieve and no light at the end of the tunnel. Even if I am incline to think the Waterfords don't get Holly, another Commander/Wife would which means June would have lost her baby after everything.

I am trying hard to see what the point of the never-ending suffering is. A cautionary tale can be told without relentlessness of this episode. 

My kids watch this with me and we were all pretty fed up by the end of the episode. It felt like more melodrama to us. Our favorite scene was the Waterfucks trying to out-delusion each other. 

[AnswersWanted]

1 minute ago, PepSinger said:

What was new information in this episode?

 

Gilead broke Boston and now it snows there all the time? 

Also, black wolves of protection roam the suburbs where the electricity and water lines operate separately. 

Oh, and some Commanders have really cool muscle cars in their forbidden garages of self-loathing. 

[chocolatine]

8 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Well, no one can say June didn't try there.  She gathered supplies, she tried everything to get out of that garage, she fired off shots for help, she built a fire.  The only thing she didn't do was pull that shotgun's trigger ending both of the Waterford's forever, and then taking their car.

I think she was already having contractions when she was hiding from them, so even if she'd killed them and taken their car, she wouldn't have gotten far. And, if she got caught, which is the most likely scenario, she would have been definitely killed as well. It's like when Moira escaped from the Red Center, she let the Aunt whose clothes she stole live because she knew if she'd gotten caught after killing an Aunt, it would have been over for her.

I found the episode really hard to watch because it was telegraphed that any of June's attempts to get the car out of the garage would be futile. And even if she'd gotten the car out, she was already in the middle of labor. You can't drive while giving birth, and you can't drive with a newborn without a carseat. At least both the baby and June made it through the birth alive, so that's a positive.

[mamadrama]

5 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

While the scene between June and Holly was beautiful, I need this show to move the plot along. My playwriting teacher had a rule where if a scene didn't reveal new information, then it should be cut. What was new information in this episode?

I'm an author and that's one of the cardinal sins of playwriting/screenplay writing/book writing: every scene should have a purpose and somehow move the story along. If we were to take this entire episode out and simply have June give birth at the Waterfords and then have Aunt Lydia step in and say, "But you have to let her live here until the baby is 6 months old", would it have made a difference? I really don't think so. I don't see any of what happened in this episode as being necessary; just more drama to put June through and another fake out escape.

I am starting to look at this show as a simple collection of scenes rather than as one that has an actual ongoing storyline. 

[rideashire]

2 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

 

I found the episode really hard to watch because it was telegraphed that any of June's attempts to get the car out of the garage would be futile. And even if she'd gotten the car out, she was already in the middle of labor. You can't drive while giving birth, and you can't drive with a newborn without a carseat. At least both the baby and June made it through the birth alive, so that's a positive.

I think if given the chance she would have tried to pop that baby out with her foot still on the pedal and then held it in her lap while she drove to canada ;)

I wonder why she didn't use the shovel to get some leverage under the door, but that's just me thinking up reasons for why it maybe could have worked when there are none because that was never the writer's plan.

Also, I agree with whoever up there said it sounded like Oprah on the radio. It's somehow comforting to think that Oprah prevails even through Gilead, sending uplifting songs to those still stuck and giving updates on the status of what's left of America.

[Maire]

Oprah and Bruce Springsteen were the highlights. I don't know why I was so tense watching, knowing she wasn't going to escape.

[AnswersWanted]

6 minutes ago, rideashire said:

Also, I agree with whoever up there said it sounded like Oprah on the radio. It's somehow comforting to think that Oprah prevails even through Gilead, sending uplifting songs to those still stuck and giving updates on the status of what's left of America.

 

That was me, I did a double take when the radio crackled on, heh. 

I love that imagery, something similar ran through my own head, kudos to whomever decided to write out that part of th scene as they did. 

[LittleRed84]

I’m left so disappointed after this episode. And even more so after the preview for next weeks... 

Not disappointed in the acting- Moss is great;

Spoiler

disappointed in the fact that Serena wins. Even if just for a bit, I can’t handle Serena getting the reward of the baby. The preview shows a photo of Fred and Serena with the baby... so pissed about that  

. The idea of hope and wonder is what keeps viewers watching... it’s just too many heartbreaks and slashed hopes. 

Is there ANY point to all of this?

[Umbelina]

14 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

While the scene between June and Holly was beautiful, I need this show to move the plot along. My playwriting teacher had a rule where if a scene didn't reveal new information, then it should be cut. What was new information in this episode?

Well.  A few things did come out.

1. June had her baby and named her after her mother, Holly.
2. The Commander definitely did NOT "set up Nick"
3. Fred knows Nick is the father of June's baby, and if he didn't know before, Serena made damn sure he knows now.
4. It looks like Serena really did give up "everything for a baby" and that is her motivation.  So along with Fred being sterile?  It's almost confirmed that she is as well.  If not, if she's that baby hungry, why not dump the old time religion and get herself artificially inseminated in Europe?
5. June's getting much better at trying to escape.

8 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

Also, black wolves of protection roam the suburbs where the electricity and water lines operate separately. 

Looked like the middle of the country or a forest to me.  Suburbs generally have other houses around.

8 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

I found the episode really hard to watch because it was telegraphed that any of June's attempts to get the car out of the garage would be futile. And even if she'd gotten the car out, she was already in the middle of labor. You can't drive while giving birth, and you can't drive with a newborn without a carseat. At least both the baby and June made it through the birth alive, so that's a positive.

Yeah, I am pretty tired of the "previews" giving away the end of important scenes.  I love spoilers, but I want to find them the hard way, not be handed results and then expected to stay interested in a scene we already where we already saw the ending.

8 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

I am starting to look at this show as a simple collection of scenes rather than as one that has an actual ongoing storyline. 

I think it's simpler than that.  Hulu has a HIT, the writers HAD a HIT, and they are fucking dragging their feet.  This isn't (that author I can't think of who wrote a very long book going through every single moment of his day.)

3 minutes ago, rideashire said:

I think if given the chance she would have tried to pop that baby out with her foot still on the pedal and then held it in her lap while she drove to canada ;)

I do to, and labor can last a long time, who knows how close she might be to a secluded cabin, or Canada.

3 minutes ago, rideashire said:

Also, I agree with whoever up there said it sounded like Oprah on the radio. It's somehow comforting to think that Oprah prevails even through Gilead, sending uplifting songs to those still stuck and giving updates on the status of what's left of America.

WHY isn't she interviewing the escapees in Canada then?

[Brn2bwild]

Few episodes have left me so depressed, especially after the awfulness of the news this week. The birthing sequence was lovely, but did we really need to learn the lesson that June has inner strength?

Edited June 27, 2018 by Brn2bwild

[Umbelina]

8 minutes ago, LittleRed84 said:

Is there ANY point to all of this?

Maybe not.

I think the writers and Hulu are going to get a HUGE wake up call after this season. 

Get it in gear, this is not a documentary of "Gilead as it Happens."

Drag it out for a few more seasons, but not without something fucking HAPPENING.  I don't expect June to actually escape or even live, but I need some resolution.

The best episode for me this entire season was the Canada episode when Serena and Fred were there. 

WE ARE NOT JUNE.  You can show us the rest of the story, the wars, the world reactions, all of it.  Do that or I may be gone as well.  Real life is just too bleak now to deliberately add more bleakness.

ETA

This wasn't a bad episode, but taken in the context of the entire season, which I did up there?  It's beyond frustrating.

Edited June 27, 2018 by Umbelina

[LittleRed84]

3 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

This isn't (that author I can't think of who wrote a very long book going through every single moment of his day.)

Ernest Hemingway is famously long winded? He hold the record for the longest sentence at 424 words. Aka. Filler

[Umbelina]

Just now, LittleRed84 said:

Ernest Hemingway is famously long winded? He hold the record for the longest sentence at 424 words. Aka. Filler

No, not him, he's actually pretty succinct, and things actually happen.  It's a classic and I'm having a brain fart.  It's really a moment by moment, tell us how you choose to have eggs, how you cracked it into a certain bowl, describe the bowl in depth, and where you got it, and why you chose it, then decide which fork to use to scramble it, which pan, which burner--detail every choice, then begin to fry it and have sensory memories of doing it before, and every person who ever made you eggs.

Four pages later, take your first bite of the egg. 

[VagueDisclaimer]

41 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

I found the episode really hard to watch because it was telegraphed that any of June's attempts to get the car out of the garage would be futile. And even if she'd gotten the car out, she was already in the middle of labor. You can't drive while giving birth, and you can't drive with a newborn without a carseat. At least both the baby and June made it through the birth alive, so that's a positive.

Not only was her every escape plan thwarted, they literally wrote in a black wolf guarding her. It wasn’t threatening or attacking, just this symbolic sentry that I had to laugh at each time because it was such a poorly done touch. 

While I’m glad June and the baby survived, not a single thing happened in this episode that makes me think anything will change. Hell, I bet Nick just has a minor flesh wound, no big reasoning as to why the other guards were there, and nothing will come of that either. This show is constantly introducing stories and possibilities and then just let them drop or fizzle out so everything can be reset to exactly as things were. There’s nothing remotely satisfying about any

of it. 

Edited June 27, 2018 by VagueDisclaimer

[AnswersWanted]

10 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Looked like the middle of the country or a forest to me.  Suburbs generally have other houses around.

 

For June’s gunshots to have been heard or seen I’m going to assume that she wasn’t that far away from civilization, just way too far for her to have walked in her condition and in that frigid weather.

I was thinking suburbs as in it was just a general residential area, a section where the houses are not very close together but a neighborhood of sorts.

[LittleRed84]

And why was everyone (guards, nick, now Fred) all like “we shouldn’t be here” or “we have to hurry, someone may have seen our car” what’s so damn special about that abandoned house?? It’s an empty house. Who cares??

[Umbelina]

3 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

 

For June’s gunshots to have been heard or seen I’m going to assume that she wasn’t that far away from civilization, just way too far for her to have walked in her condition and in that frigid weather.

I was thinking suburbs as in it was just a general residential area, a section where the houses are not very close together but a neighborhood of sorts.

We don't even know if they were heard.

They call it a lake house, and they call it a "wild dog" not a wolf in the "inside the episode" by the way.

We saw them drive to it, lots of overhead shots, it's very isolated, and obviously not in a suburb or near anyone else.

1 minute ago, LittleRed84 said:

And why was everyone (guards, nick, now Fred) all like “we shouldn’t be here” or “we have to hurry, someone may have seen our car” what’s so damn special about that abandoned house?? It’s an empty house. Who cares??

Nick wasn't supposed to be there, none of them were.

As for Fred, he just didn't want to get caught, he's desperately trying to think of a way to weasel out of his part of a very pregnant handmaid running away.  Again.  After his last one hung herself.  He's not in very good standing as it is, and if he could figure out a way to blame it on someone else?  He would.

[LittleRed84]

9 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

We don't even know if they were heard.

Well, I’m assuming they were heard... since the last scene shows headlights flashing across the room June was laying in- a car pulling up to the house? Right before she says the line “I tell. Therefore you are.” Headlights light up the room. 

[spaceghostess]

I don't know; this episode kicked me pretty damned hard in the feels. I guess it's impossible for me to see babies born without remembering how my own entered the world. The older guy was supposed be born at a freestanding birth center similar to--but less fancy than--the one Holly was showing to June. Preeclampsia put the kibosh on that plan--it would have been a Lady Sybil situation (or worse) had I not had an emergency c-section (he was 7.5 weeks premature). My second kiddo was a completely unmedicated VBAC and I couldn't have been happier. Well, not having food poisoning the night before into the next morning would have been nice, but you can't have everything.  I labored all day, pretty much myself (My now-ex was around the apartment, but he's an actual, textbook narcissist, so he spent the whole time on the phone and ignoring me.) The little guy was born within 40 minutes of our arrival at the hospital. My midwife basically missed it, but the doctor on call had had a VBAC too, so she got where I was coming from and was just great.

I held no illusions going in that June and Holly would escape, but even with that bleakness on the horizon, I was still so happy for June that she got to have her baby without any of those assholes anywhere near her. No bullshit "birthing" ritual starring Serena and her henchwives; no Aunt Lydia (although it seemed the memories of handmaid training were at least helpful on some level); no Moira or Luke, which was sad. But June got to have HER baby. Hold HER baby. Those moments will always belong to June and Holly; they're something Gilead doesn't get to own.

Edited June 27, 2018 by spaceghostess
Had to add "or worse" to the Lady Sybil comment, as preeclampsia can kill mom AND baby. "Eclampsia" comes from the Greek for lightning, which pretty much sums up the sudden, lethal way in which the medical condition strikes.

[AnswersWanted]

2 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

We don't even know if they were heard.

They call it a lake house, and they call it a "wild dog" not a wolf in the "inside the episode" by the way.

We saw them drive to it, lots of overhead shots, it's very isolated, and obviously not in a suburb or near anyone else.

 

A lake house surrounded by trees does not necessarily mean isolated or nonresidential to me, but ymmv.

I have friends who live in very similar surroundings, if you didn’t know any better you would think they are all alone, but they are in fact apart of an established neighborhood. 

They just have enough money to afford a lot of private space, heh. 

Either way I did not get the impression she was that far out regardless of the actual location.

I think they did mean to infer the gunshots were heard and that’s how they found her but who knows, the show did not elaborate on that point, or hasn’t yet. 

Also going back to last week, it wasn’t that long from when the Martha and guard took Hannah before the other guards showed up and attacked Nick, to me that again shows that the house is probably more centrally located than not. 

 

16 minutes ago, LittleRed84 said:

And why was everyone (guards, nick, now Fred) all like “we shouldn’t be here” or “we have to hurry, someone may have seen our car” what’s so damn special about that abandoned house?? It’s an empty house. Who cares??

 

Not really sure about the house but Oprah lives in the car’s radio, it’s either haunted or gets incredible SiriusXM reception...

[chocolatine]

I thought it was a summer house, the way the furniture was covered, but there was still stuff in the drawers and in the pantry. Also, didn't June find a photo of Hannah with her "new mother" and a framed picture that Hannah presumably drew? I took that to mean that it was the summer house of the family who now has Hannah. Fred also called out for a commander whose name I don't recall. The only thing that's incongruent with that theory is that there was a winter coat in the commander's closet, but who knows, a lot of places get cold spells in the summer.

Edited June 27, 2018 by chocolatine

[Umbelina]

4 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

 

A lake house surrounded by trees does not necessarily mean isolated or nonresidential to me, but ymmv.

I have friends who live in very similar surroundings, if you didn’t know any better you would think they are all alone, but they are in fact apart of an established neighborhood. 

They just have enough money to afford a lot of private space, heh. 

Either way I did not get the impression she was that far out regardless of the actual location.

I think they did mean to infer the gunshots were heard and that’s how they found her but who knows, the show did not elaborate on that point, or hasn’t yet. 

Also going back to last week, it wasn’t that long from when the Martha and guard took Hannah before the other guards showed up and attacked Nick, to me that again shows that the house is probably more centrally located than not. 

 

 

Not really sure about the house but Oprah lives in the car’s radio, it’s either haunted or gets incredible SiriusXM reception...

It may be near Canada.

I missed the headlights, thanks.

They did overhead (helicopter or huge crane) shots when Nick drove her there, there was nothing around.  Yeah, that Commander has a lot of money if that's just his "summer house."

If only the show would address the various states of income and influence and jobs the various commanders have, right?

2 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

I thought it was a summer house, the way the furniture was covered, but there was still stuff in the drawers and in the pantry. Also, didn't June find a photo of Hannah with her "new mother" and a framed picture that Hannah presumably drew? I took that to mean that it was the summer house of the family who now has Hannah. Fred also called out for a commander whose name I don't recall. The only thing that's incongruent with that theory is that there was a winter coat in the commander's closet, but who knows, a lot of places get cold spells in the summer.

DID June find that?  Wow, I need to pay more attention.  Life got in the way tonight.  I'll watch it again.

Is Oprah credited, because it definitely sounded like her, but I can't imagine Oprah would read the news in Canada...she'd be at a villa in France, or an island in the Caribbean. 

[Brn2bwild]

If Serena gets to keep Holly, may she grow up to look exactly like June, complete with the smirk and the knowing eyes.

[mamadrama]

I've given birth 3 times. My second went into a complete placental abruption with a full-on hemorrhage (that looked very much like the bloody delivery scene of June) that required immediate delivery (several weeks early) and 3 blood transfusions. My son died 8 weeks later of a heart attack. 

I'm only sharing that because, with those things said, I felt no kind of feels while watching this episode. Ordinarily baby things make me all gushy and sentimental. I am so worn out from all the dark crap and bad shit that's happening in this show, however, that I'm kind of over a lot of this. Had this happened in season 1, I'd have been tearing up and hugging my kids. This time around, while she was lying there holding Holly immediately after birth, I wound up pausing it to see how much time was left and then called out for my husband to bring me a cupcake. 

This is not good for the viewer in me. 

[AnswersWanted]

12 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

It may be near Canada.

I missed the headlights, thanks.

They did overhead (helicopter or huge crane) shots when Nick drove her there, there was nothing around.  Yeah, that Commander has a lot of money if that's just his "summer house."

If only the show would address the various states of income and influence and jobs the various commanders have, right?

DID June find that?  Wow, I need to pay more attention.  Life got in the way tonight.  I'll watch it again.

Is Oprah credited, because it definitely sounded like her, but I can't imagine Oprah would read the news in Canada...she'd be at a villa in France, or an island in the Caribbean. 

 

 I am doubtful the show really knows what location they’re supposed to be depicting from one scene to the next.

I think it’s just a hodgepodge of places which they decide to shoot in that fits the story they want to tell, but in reality it really doesn’t make sense depending on what area they claim to be in at that time. 

 Speaking of money, I actually was somewhat curious as to how the commander was allowed to keep his sweet car, is it because he is such a higher up? Or because it is his other home so he’s allowed to keep it there? Is he allowed to even drive it? 

Being one of the richest and most influential women in the world today while also being a proud, outspoken woman of color, Oprah should have headed for the tax haven hills the second she heard the first “blessed day”. 

Edited June 27, 2018 by AnswersWanted

[mamadrama]

12 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

It may be near Canada.

I missed the headlights, thanks.

They did overhead (helicopter or huge crane) shots when Nick drove her there, there was nothing around.  Yeah, that Commander has a lot of money if that's just his "summer house."

If only the show would address the various states of income and influence and jobs the various commanders have, right?

DID June find that?  Wow, I need to pay more attention.  Life got in the way tonight.  I'll watch it again.

Is Oprah credited, because it definitely sounded like her, but I can't imagine Oprah would read the news in Canada...she'd be at a villa in France, or an island in the Caribbean. 

Yes, June found a picture of Hannah with her "new" mother. It was in a frame on a desk. 

That was Oprah. The show asked the podcasters and reviewers to wait before sharing anything because Oprah's appearance was meant to be a surprise. I could see Oprah dividing her time between Canada and Europe. I think she's one who would get involved in at least the publicity side of what's going on. 

[Umbelina]

1 minute ago, mamadrama said:

Yes, June found a picture of Hannah with her "new" mother. It was in a frame on a desk. 

That was Oprah. The show asked the podcasters and reviewers to wait before sharing anything because Oprah's appearance was meant to be a surprise. I could see Oprah dividing her time between Canada and Europe. I think she's one who would get involved in at least the publicity side of what's going on. 

Which brings me RIGHT back to "why isn't she interviewing people like Moira?"  I can buy that the letters from people still trapped in Gilead caused a huge stir, not just in Canada, but world wide.

What I can't believe is that all of those refugees, with all of their tales of woe and horror, haven't been on every newscast around the world multiple times, or even made blogs on the internet. 

This show really fell apart this season, and I do think it's from trying to stretch out the story.

[Sader87]

Filler episode....sorry if that comes across as harsh but the story-line took, maybe, a half-step forward.

[spaceghostess]

3 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

I've given birth 3 times. My second went into a complete placental abruption with a full-on hemorrhage (that looked very much like the bloody delivery scene of June) that required immediate delivery (several weeks early) and 3 blood transfusions. My son died 8 weeks later of a heart attack. 

I'm only sharing that because, with those things said, I felt no kind of feels while watching this episode. Ordinarily baby things make me all gushy and sentimental. I am so worn out from all the dark crap and bad shit that's happening in this show, however, that I'm kind of over a lot of this. Had this happened in season 1, I'd have been tearing up and hugging my kids. This time around, while she was lying there holding Holly immediately after birth, I wound up pausing it to see how much time was left and then called out for my husband to bring me a cupcake. 

This is not good for the viewer in me. 

First, I'm so very sorry for your loss.

I know exactly what you mean about being over the show's darkness. Realizing as she was yanking that damned garage door that her water would break any minute, I was prepared to feel underwhelmed by the birth as well, for much the same reasons you described. I'm not sentimental about most things, especially t.v. births, which usually ring utterly false and ridiculous to me, even if they do make me think of my babies. But this one somehow overrode my Gilead-fatigue. Totally get where you're coming from, though.

[mamadrama]

1 minute ago, spaceghostess said:

First, I'm so very sorry for your loss.

I know exactly what you mean about being over the show's darkness. Realizing as she was yanking that damned garage door that her water would break any minute, I was prepared to feel underwhelmed by the birth as well, for much the same reasons you described. I'm not sentimental about most things, especially t.v. births, which usually ring utterly false and ridiculous to me, even if they do make me think of my babies. But this one somehow overrode my Gilead-fatigue. Totally get where you're coming from, though.

Thank you. I really do feel like if this had happened earlier then it would've affected me more. I think I'm just becoming desensitized to all the bad shit that's happening. I hate that. 

[Sader87]

The lack or paucity of "world-building" in this show is starting to get very tiresome....I get it, it's A Handmaid's Tale but it's growing very boring. For me, the best ep this year was easily the Waterfucks ill-fated trip to the Great White North....most of the other eps this season have been rather dull and predictable....ymmv.

[VagueDisclaimer]

The best part of the episode for me was the fight between Serena and Fred and how they let so much of their pent up hatred just spew everywhere. During this argument, i did catch Serena’s usual brand of revisionist history.

First, how Serena blamed Fred for the rape. She called it rape, which was big, but it also distanced it from all the other times Serena held June down while Fred raped her. I get that the show tried to really highlight this distinction during the scene, having June fight back and scream no, but there’s something that just feels...gross about this. I can understand how, considering Serena’s deeply sustained beliefs, she can tell herself it wasn’t rape before because it was part of this sacred ceremony. I’m not comfortable, though, with the show playing up this angle too much. That one act didn’t make Serena or Fred worse monsters, imo.

Along these same lines, Serena telling Fred she gave everything up for a baby. I don’t actually believe this and it’s just part of Serena’s narrative now. We saw her making speeches, we saw her own rallying. The “cause” wasn’t about her getting a baby. She might’ve argued that this destruction of society was all about babies, but it clearly wasn’t. Eventually, when she realized that her kind of woman would also be sacrificed to the “cause”, she decided her consolation prize would be a baby, she’d settle for that since she lost everything, but it’s bullshit to say this was her goal from the start. Her goal was harnessing and driving society into the ground until it yielded to her cause. 

Edited June 28, 2018 by VagueDisclaimer

[AnswersWanted]

23 minutes ago, Sader87 said:

Filler episode....sorry if that comes across as harsh but the story-line took, maybe, a half-step forward.

 

I totally agree. I think from the onset they were obviously wanting this episode to be really emotionally riveting and impacting, and quite frankly I was bored 15 minutes in.

Personally, I think this season as a whole the show squandered a lot of the goodwill it had earned due to season one.

I was thinking as Fred and Serena were racing out of the house to try and cover their tracks and find June without alerting anyone, how nice it would’ve been to see them being swarmed and surrounded by more guards, demanding explanations they could not possibly give and then they’d get hauled off for questioning. 

 For me that type of outcome would have been a welcome addition.

A good way to show that those two are well on their way to paying some sort of price for their many unforgivable acts. 

Why does a handmaid or an innocent so regularly have to be the only ones truly suffering the wrath of Gilead, throws those assholes to the wolves already, pun intended. 

The show seems desperate to keep much of the plot the same but make it more bleak and depressing as a way to “show growth”, even more torture, vivid and in your face, more mistreatment and mutilation, more death, more pain, agony, depair, and of course rape, the more horrific and nauseating and deplorable the better.

It has long since passed tiresome for me and now it’s just downright annoying as fuck. 

Edited June 27, 2018 by AnswersWanted

[mamadrama]

14 minutes ago, Sader87 said:

The lack or paucity of "world-building" in this show is starting to get very tiresome....I get it, it's A Handmaid's Tale but it's growing very boring.

For sure. And they can't have it both ways. On the one hand they're saying "it's the Handmaid's Tale, not Gilead's Tale." Fair enough, except they DO show stuff from other people's perspectives when it suits them: we've seen an episode from Luke's perspective, seen Moira & Company up in Canada, followed the Waterfucks on their jolly jaunt up north, skipped over to the Colonies (which, granted, could still be considered a Handmaid's tale if not THE Handmaid's tale), etc. The inconsistency kills me. Personally, I'm ready to see some expansion. 

Edited June 27, 2018 by mamadrama

[AnswersWanted]

9 minutes ago, VagueDisclaimer said:

The best part of the episode for me was the fight between Serena and Fred and how they let so much of the lent up hatred just spew everywhere. During this argument, i did catch Serena’s usual brand of revisionist history.

First, how Serena blamed Fred for the rape. She called it rape, which was big, but it also distanced it from all the other times Serena held June down while Fred raped her. I get that the show tried to really highlight this distinction during the scene, having June fight back and scream no, but there’s something that just feels...gross about this. I can understand how, considering Serena’s deeply sustained beliefs, she can tell herself it wasn’t rape before because it was part of this sacred ceremony. I’m not comfortable, though, with the show playing up this angle too much. That one act didn’t make Serena or Fred worse monsters, imo.

Along these same lines, Serena telling Fred she gave everything up for a baby. I don’t actually believe this and it’s just part of Serena’s narrative now. We saw her making speeches, we saw her own rallying. The “cause” wasn’t about her getting a baby. She might’ve argued that this destruction of society was all about babies, but it clearly wasn’t. Eventually, when she realized that her kind of woman would also be sacrificed to the “cause”, she decided her consolation prize would be a baby, she’d settle for that since she lost everything, but it’s bullshit to say this was her goal from the start. Her goal was harnessing and driving society into the ground until it yielded to her cause. 

 

Brilliant post.

Adoption, Surrogacy, Fostering to eventually adopt, Serena’s options were more than open and she had a number of ways to get a child, a baby of her own. 

Betraying her country, giving way to rescinding all rights for women, and most people in general, and ending up in the most Sepia toned hell on earth just to get her mini me was not “Option A” for this self important monster. 

IMO, Serena is not built to accept her own responsibility and complicity for Gilead’s takeover, she will always paint herself, in whatever way she can, as a victim someway, somehow.

[BellyLaughter]

2 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Maybe not.

I think the writers and Hulu are going to get a HUGE wake up call after this season. 

Get it in gear, this is not a documentary of "Gilead as it Happens."

Drag it out for a few more seasons, but not without something fucking HAPPENING.  I don't expect June to actually escape or even live, but I need some resolution.

The best episode for me this entire season was the Canada episode when Serena and Fred were there. 

WE ARE NOT JUNE.  You can show us the rest of the story, the wars, the world reactions, all of it.  Do that or I may be gone as well.  Real life is just too bleak now to deliberately add more bleakness.

ETA

This wasn't a bad episode, but taken in the context of the entire season, which I did up there?  It's beyond frustrating.

Yep, they need to get away from this storytelling position that “it’s the Handmaid’s story” because it’s really not anymore and that attitude is suffocating this show!

[mamadrama]

14 minutes ago, BellyLaughter said:

Yep, they need to get away from this storytelling position that “it’s the Handmaid’s story” because it’s really not anymore and that attitude is suffocating this show!

I'm perfectly happy with them expanding it and showing it on a bigger scale. What they're doing right now isn't working for me. I am just kind of tired of them using "it's the Handmaid's story" as an excuse for some of the other things they're doing that aren't working. 

[LordOfLotion]

Weren't those handles on the garage door the kind with the lock in the middle where you stick the key in and then turn the handle and lift? Why was she hacking at it with a shovel? I mean I get that things can freeze, but she had the keys and she never tried UNLOCKING THE DOORS. It didn't look like cold enough weather for the doors to be frozen, either. I could have bought into this more if the car just plain didn't start because the battery was dead.

[LittleRed84]

On a positive note- it was nice to have an actress portray a birth scene more realistically- not some squeaking and half-assed pushing resulting in a clean shiny toddler being born. (Yes, the baby needed more vernix to look real, but it was a dark scene.) Elisabeth’s acting during the birth was excellent, (especially from an actress that doesn’t have any children to my knowledge, so has no real life birth experience to draw on). I was very impressed with that part. 

Sadly, the disappointment of the masses regarding the stagnant plot will overshadow her performance this time. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Fred and Serena's fight was the first bit of honesty we've seen between them. It was ugly and awesome because they finally dropped their polite facades and let loose. No more of their dulcet voices and carefully measured words.

[alexvillage]

5 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Elizabeth Moss doesn't need more for her Emmy reel.  She's got plenty already.  She's just that good.

Yes. Yes. No.