S01.E01: Vanish

[ferjy]

1 hour ago, preeya said:

I couldn't see anything other than "vanish." Would you please post the "words" that were carved on her back.   TIA

Sorry, when I said I saw them easily, I meant noticed that they were actually there. Many were illegible, but some were Injury, Fraud, Porn, April. On her arms were Amen (or possibly Men), Mother, Dark. 

As a poster mentioned upthread, the Vanish did glow before fade-out so we were obviously supposed to take that one in. Many of the other words glowed as well when she was getting into the tub, but as they flashed over it quickly you didn’t have time to read them and going back and pausing blurs the letters. We’re probably not meant to read the words so much as know that they are there. At least not yet! Maybe they’ll focus on them more later.

Edited July 13, 2018 by ferjy

[Penman61]

3 hours ago, ferjy said:

A lot to read through so I may have missed a post, but what about the words on her back? There’s no way she could have accomplished that. They’re all over her back!

 

I watched on my phone and saw the scars easily so it must be a matter of lighting or sharpness on the TV or device. You couldn’t miss them on my screen. What I thought was ridiculous were the words. Except for the trunk which was more noticeable, viewers are not going to see the words unless they know to look for them. Or that any they do notice are important. I’m usually good with details and I only noticed the trunk. It’s sloppy writing if they expect us to work out that any words onscreen are important to the plot. That’s where I agree that the writers are trying to be too clever.

Thanks for posting that screenshot.  Ok, there's NO WAY she did these herself, which I guess means we're going to find out about some hard-to-watch s/m sex practices--and that's the best-case scenario. Yikes.  Also, recall that this episode featured Camille masturbating, triggered by her (intrusive?) memories of the kink cabin.  

[ferjy]

11 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

Thanks for posting that screenshot.  Ok, there's NO WAY she did these herself, which I guess means we're going to find out about some hard-to-watch s/m sex practices--and that's the best-case scenario. Yikes. 

Unless it’s a plot hole. The words on her legs aren’t positioned correctly either. They would be facing her (so upside down when we see them) if she etched them in, but they’re not. Or maybe she’s a contortionist! 

 

11 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

 Also, recall that this episode featured Camille masturbating, triggered by her (intrusive?) memories of the kink cabin.  

Yep, that seemed creepy and probably very telling. 

Edited July 13, 2018 by ferjy

[preeya]

4 hours ago, ferjy said:

Unless it’s a plot hole. The words on her legs aren’t positioned correctly either. They would be facing her (so upside down when we see them) if she etched them in, but they’re not. Or maybe she’s a contortionist! 

OR, someone else did the etching. Perhaps her deceased sibling????

[Penman61]

3 hours ago, preeya said:

OR, someone else did the etching. Perhaps her deceased sibling????

The young Camille has noticeably unmarked skin in every scene we've seen her.  (Possible exception: I don't recall if she has any skin visible at Marian's funeral).  Still, I think the cutting is a response to whatever trauma we're about to find out happened at the kink cabin (wasn't there a quick shot of her being chased by a team of boys?) and my guess is she's been doing it (and/or having it done by another) as a young woman/adult for many, many years, to judge by the complete coverage of the cutting scars as well as the age range indicated by the differing visibilities of the palimpsest of scars on her back.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Penman61

[preeya]

9 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

palimpsest

 

My first encounter with this word. So I had to look it up.

Definition:  a manuscript or piece of writing material on which the original writing has been effaced to make room for later writing but of which traces remain.  something reused or altered but still bearing visible traces of its earlier form.

[ferjy]

4 hours ago, preeya said:

OR, someone else did the etching. Perhaps her deceased sibling????

Yes, that's what I was getting at.

 

44 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

The young Camille has noticeably unmarked skin in every scene we've seen her.  (Possible exception: I don't recall if she has any skin visible at Marian's funeral).  Still, I think the cutting is a response to whatever trauma we're about to find out happened at the kink cabin (wasn't there a quick shot of her being chased by a team of boys?) and my guess is she's been doing it (and/or having it done by another) as a young woman/adult for many, many years, to judge by the complete coverage of the cutting scars as well as the age range indicated by the differing visibilities of the palimpsest of scars on her back.

 

I wonder if she is still doing it/having it done to her. Although we didn't see any fresh cuts when she was in the bathtub, she may have some in areas they haven't shown us yet. Or she may have turned to alcohol instead as her vice now.

Edited July 14, 2018 by ferjy

[msrachelj]

i think the "scars" aren't real. just like the written signs and messages we've been seeing all over the place. they aren't really there.

On 7/12/2018 at 3:38 PM, mntnsrck79 said:

Regarding the discussion over the feasibility of writing on the back of one’s arms, she actually had scars all over her back too. I saw them very clearly on my tv; every inch of her body that had been covered by her clothes was covered in scars (all words) - back, chest, legs, shoulders, arms. I could read a lot of words. The one that stood out to me was occult. My immediate thought was that it would be impossible to do that to yourself (maybe if you used a long piece of wire?). 

Its so weird that so many many people couldn’t see the scars or could barely see them. For me it was like words written all over that would be impossible to not notice.  I watched on a five year old medium quality tv using hbogo and chromecast, for anyone keeping track. 

I really enjoyed this premiere and am looking forward to it for the next several weeks. I’m actually glad I haven’t read the book yet because it seems like the tv series is really well done. I kind of wish she weren’t such a hardcore alcoholic - I feel like there’s enough going on without that added, although maybe I’ll feel differently as I watch more.

i watched with bad eyesight and glasses that need updating on a 8 year old tv and the scars could not be missed.

[Court]

I watched on my tiny phone and saw the scars clearly.  I was also wondering why she never changed clothes.

 

I haven't read the book but I enjoyed the first episode. 

[jeansheridan]

On 7/10/2018 at 8:14 AM, TattleTeeny said:

If this character's been doing this for a long time, I'm not one bit surprised to see her carrying on her daily business without anyone around her the wiser. 

Oh, I think they know. They're just too embarrassed or "kind" or disinterested to mention it. Challenging an alcoholic is generally a losing battle. And despite drinking vodka, she probably still reeks a bit of it.

When Camille was sneaking out of the mansion did anyone else notice her mother dancing in background to the music. Or twirling at least. It kind of cracked me up but also made me happy for the mom. Anyone who can twirl has some spunk in them.

I do hope Patricia Clarkson gets to be the tough woman she usually gets to play and we don't just see this high-strung mess. Her characters usually have a core of strength and compassion even if they are damaged. The Station Agent comes to mind. And in Lars and the Beautiful Girl she was so smart and compassionate.

[peachmangosteen]

I had a few questions because for whatever reason I missed some things. Probably because I usually can't see and/or hear a lot of stuff on TV nowadays. Yet somehow I did notice the scars. Anyway, all of my questions have been answered except for one; why was Camille's mother always pulling at her eyelashes? Does she have trichotillomania?

Edited July 15, 2018 by peachmangosteen

[ferjy]

3 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I had a few questions because for whatever reason I missed some things. Probably because I usually can't see and/or hear a lot of stuff on TV nowadays. Yet somehow I did notice the scars. Anyway, all of my questions have been answered except for one; why was Camille's mother always pulling at her eyelashes? Does she have trichotillomania?

They haven’t mentioned anything in the show yet. It was quite deliberate so I’m figuring they will explain it eventually. 

[peachmangosteen]

Thank you. I wasn't sure if it was something we were supposed to just get or if it was something that would be delved into later.

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

Oh, I think they know. They're just too embarrassed or "kind" or disinterested to mention it. Challenging an alcoholic is generally a losing battle. And despite drinking vodka, she probably still reeks a bit of it.

Oh, I should have clarified; I didn't mean they don't know about the drinking at all, just that maybe they don't know the true extent of it. I now my friends and I knew my friend was way far gone but when faced with the evidence (a closetful of bottles in a relatively short time), we were all still floored by it. There's bad, and then there's "holy shit."

[ferjy]

4 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Thank you. I wasn't sure if it was something we were supposed to just get or if it was something that would be delved into later.

If we were supposed to get it, I didn’t. :-D Of course, it might only be that they’re showing she’s gone through trauma and that is one of the results. We already see she’s a bit flighty. Whether she was always that way or if she became that way after her child’s death (the latter is my guess) we don’t really know. They may explain further or they may just leave it to our interpretation. 

[casey65]

On 7/14/2018 at 1:29 PM, jeansheridan said:

 

When Camille was sneaking out of the mansion did anyone else notice her mother dancing in background to the music. Or twirling at least. It kind of cracked me up but also made me happy for the mom. Anyone who can twirl has some spunk in them.

I caught that on rewatch, I loved it.  That entire scene, and the use of the song (Englebert Humperdinck!!) was fantastic. Gave me chills.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 7/13/2018 at 11:33 AM, ferjy said:

The words on her legs aren’t positioned correctly either. They would be facing her (so upside down when we see them) if she etched them in, but they’re not. Or maybe she’s a contortionist!

I've been able to write upside down since I was a kid (print only, not cursive). I have no idea why because I don't remember anyone teaching me to do it, but for that reason, upside down words on her legs don't bother me. Even if she's not great at it, all she would have to do is write the word on a piece of paper and then hold the paper upside down as a guide.

21 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

why was Camille's mother always pulling at her eyelashes? Does she have trichotillomania?

The first time I saw her do it, I thought she was pulling off fake eyelashes (because it was later at night, she was in her nightgown, and Camille had just turned up at the house unannounced so I assumed that Camille had interrupted her before bedtime routine). But when I saw her do it again later, I thought oh no, she's one of those people who pulls out hair when they're stressed. Prepare to need fake eyelashes by the time Camille finally leaves town, mom! I'm only partly joking because she clearly gets very upset about what Camille says and does so I'm afraid she will have no eyelashes left in short order.

[ferjy]

11 hours ago, casey65 said:

I caught that on rewatch, I loved it.  That entire scene, and the use of the song (Englebert Humperdinck!!) was fantastic. Gave me chills.

My mother listened to Englebert constantly. It brought back memories. Except my mother didn't dance to him, she sang along with him. 

[IDreamofJoaquin]

I have to disagree about the casting. Although I love the cast, I found them to be too old for the roles. It makes no sense to have someone in their early 40's be a sister to a teenager, and Patricia Clarkson also looks closer in age with Amy.  I find Amy looks her age.  

What I will agree with is what I was reminded of The Sinner and VC Andrews. HAHA.  I mean the Adora and Amma names seemed so similar to Audrina Adair and then of course just the overall feeling.

This is definitely a show you need to keep your eyes on as all the little flashbacks and flickers of mixed timelines.   I find it interesting Sophia Lillis is cast as a young Amy as people who are hardcore into "IT" like her for that role. Also, Jessica Chastain so it's really not that hard of a reach - I guess people just focus on the red hair. 

[bilgistic]

I haven't read the book, so I don't know anyone's real age and don't remember if it's been specifically stated on the show, but I'm assuming Amma is 16ish. I do remember (or maybe someone here said) that there are about 20 years between her and Camille, which puts Camille at 36ish. I can completely buy it. Amy Adams is 43. Her skin is flawless, while her eyes show some perfectly normal aging. We're used to seeing actors and "influencers" who are unnaturally dewrinkled/have "fillers" and have their facial muscles immobilized to prevent wrinkles. When we see stars who look their age, we think they look "old" because our perception is so skewed.

If Patricia Clarkson is playing near her real age of 58, Adora would've had Amma when Adora was 42ish, which isn't unheard of. Camille would've been born when Adora was 22ish.

Edited July 17, 2018 by bilgistic

[carrps]

On 7/9/2018 at 6:17 AM, jeansheridan said:

I know him from The Mindy Project. Messina. He always reminds me of other actors, not himself. But I generally like him. He can be quite funny like Adam Scott. I sort of wish Mark Duplass had been cast. He is my television Ruffalo. Rumpled, almost handsome, an undercurrent of weird.

I happened to have re-watched Away We Go just days before this episode, so I knew him from that!

[Empress1]

4 hours ago, bilgistic said:

I haven't read the book, so I don't know anyone's real age and don't remember if it's been specifically stated on the show, but I'm assuming Amma is 16ish. I do remember (or maybe someone here said) that there are about 20 years between her and Camille, which puts Camille at 36ish. I can completely buy it. Amy Adams is 43. Her skin is flawless, while her eyes show some perfectly normal aging. We're used to seeing actors and "influencers" who are unnaturally dewrinkled/have "fillers" and have their facial muscles immobilized to prevent wrinkles. When we see stars who look their age, we think they look "old" because our perception is so skewed.

If Patricia Clarkson is playing near her real age of 58, Adora would've had Amma when Adora was 42ish, which isn't unheard of. Camille would've been born when Adora was 22ish.

In the book Amma is 13. A podcast I listen to pointed out that HBO is saying that Amma is 15 but no one else writing about the show says that, nor is it in the book; their theory was that HBO is a bit uncomfortable with a sexualized 13-year-old so they aged her up a bit. The actress playing her is 19.

I can buy Amy Adams playing 35ish, but no younger. I think she looks her age and I mean that as a compliment. We carry ourselves differently as we age, and she doesn't carry herself like a woman younger than 35. In the book Camille is 30, which, no way, Amy Adams. I think they shifted things up a few years.

[TattleTeeny]

Camille's a hard drinker, which can wreak havoc on someone's appearance; I think it's plausible to believe she's younger than 35. 

Edited July 19, 2018 by TattleTeeny

[IDreamofJoaquin]

On 7/17/2018 at 4:42 PM, Empress1 said:

In the book Amma is 13. A podcast I listen to pointed out that HBO is saying that Amma is 15 but no one else writing about the show says that, nor is it in the book; their theory was that HBO is a bit uncomfortable with a sexualized 13-year-old so they aged her up a bit. The actress playing her is 19.

I can buy Amy Adams playing 35ish, but no younger. I think she looks her age and I mean that as a compliment. We carry ourselves differently as we age, and she doesn't carry herself like a woman younger than 35. In the book Camille is 30, which, no way, Amy Adams. I think they shifted things up a few years.

Thank you.  You got what I meant. 

[candle96]

On 7/9/2018 at 6:32 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Between the dark lighting and the mumbling combined with loud music, I feel like a lot of shows these days don’t want me to see or hear what’s happening!

I've somewhat defeatedly taken to putting on the closed captioning sometimes, as I did with this show last night. Part of it is my very loud furnace/air conditioner, but part of it is definitely the tendency of shows to allow so much mumbling from their actors in their final edits. Looking at you, Patrick Dempsey.

[candall]

I reviewed the bathtub scene frame-by-frame and detected absolutely nothing except some white scratches based on the "VANISH" screengrab.  If Amy Adams had to endure hours of discomfort for that particular effect, that's a darn shame.

And a fairly large failure on the show's part.

 

The failure on my part was the impulse purchase of a 60" tv for <$400. (Pixel count:  six.)

[love2lovebadtv]

On 7/17/2018 at 5:55 AM, IDreamofJoaquin said:

I have to disagree about the casting. Although I love the cast, I found them to be too old for the roles. It makes no sense to have someone in their early 40's be a sister to a teenager, and Patricia Clarkson also looks closer in age with Amy.  I find Amy looks her age.  

What I will agree with is what I was reminded of The Sinner and VC Andrews. HAHA.  I mean the Adora and Amma names seemed so similar to Audrina Adair and then of course just the overall feeling.

This is definitely a show you need to keep your eyes on as all the little flashbacks and flickers of mixed timelines.   I find it interesting Sophia Lillis is cast as a young Amy as people who are hardcore into "IT" like her for that role. Also, Jessica Chastain so it's really not that hard of a reach - I guess people just focus on the red hair. 

This is my first time seeing either of these actresses in anything except the interviews that prompted me to check out the show, and I don't know how old they are. I don't think Camille and her mother look close in age at all. If anything, I find the parents unbelievable as parents of a teenager. I wondered if maybe Camille was really the mom. She looks like she's in her 30s, not 40s to me, which would be a more likely scenario for lying about the teenager's real mother. But it doesn't seem like the show is going there, so I'm not sure how old anyone is supposed to be. 

[love2lovebadtv]

On 7/19/2018 at 7:17 PM, TattleTeeny said:

Camille's a hard drinker, which can wreak havoc on someone's appearance; I think it's plausible to believe she's younger than 35. 

Agreed. 

[millennium]

On 7/8/2018 at 11:17 PM, jeansheridan said:

 

More of a biggie for me, how many Southern clichés are we gonna hit? Swimming holes, boys with hunting rifles, big Gothic mansion, a mother out of Tennessee Williams, a Lolita like teen sister, creepy stepfather, and the big city detective who may be from Kansas City but reads New York. And the nearly silent African American maid who knows things. I feel like I have seen this place a billion times. It is high end VC Andrews.

 

Not to mention the hoary cliche of "big city newspaper reporter returning to his/her hometown to dig up secrets the townsfolk would rather leave buried, is met with scorn and nostalgia, finds something like acceptance at his/her old watering hole" blah blah blah.   

I guess they're targeting a younger demographic not old enough to have seen a hundred other movies/shows just like this.

[Lady Calypso]

So, after some hemming and hawing, I decided to finally take the time to sit down and start this series. I didn't really have an interest in it before, but with the holidays, I thought it would be a good series to watch.

I'm not really sure how I feel about the series yet. This first episode did have a lot of mumbling and incoherent dialogue, and I'm 25 years old. I feel like this pilot had a slow start to it. A lot of long shots of Camille drinking, which I get, but I also felt like they didn't need to hammer home the fact that Camille is a high functioning alcoholic. 

I haven't read the book, nor have I even heard about the book, and I have no idea what's to come, but this pilot seemed to set up some possibly obvious ideas of where this is all going. I did figure out the interwoven timelines pretty quickly. The casting of young Camille was on point, because I totally saw the actress as a younger Amy Adams, so that beginning scene took me only a couple of minutes to figure out. I thought that the younger Camille and her sister had been from the 70s or 80s, just by the cinematography and costume choices, but I guess it could be more 90s. 

Adora was an interesting character to introduce and it seems like she is a handful to begin with. I can't imagine how the relationship between Camille and her mother got as fractured as it did, as her mother seeing her daughter was definitely unexpected, yet realistic. It definitely seems like Adora's inability to deal with death stems from whatever happened to Camille's sister (Marian?). It does seem like she was sick in some way, with the IV stand in her bedroom and that flashback to her seizure, but I wonder what kind of illness fell upon her and why it has Adora so shaken up, even years later. 

Camille definitely has some childhood trauma going on and without knowing what it is, it definitely is not going to be good when it is revealed. 

Ok, Amma is creepy. The character seems to be a teenager, but her behaviour seems almost child-like. I don't know what's going on with her, but I have a feeling she'll become a major part of this series. 

I didn't notice the scars until I read about it on here. I think it would be a twist if she wrote all of those words on herself, but not in a good way. So the only explanation, besides it being a continuity issue just for plot, is that Camille had people write the words on the places she wouldn't be able to realistically reach.

So, I will watch the series, since it's only eight episodes in total, but it's gotten off to a slow start and I'm not particularly pulled in yet.