Supernatural Bitterness & Unpopular Opinions: You All Suck

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

Yes, I felt very bad for him. He always works very hard to make fight scenes good but obviously, he can`t just magically give the show a better budget AND a more competent director/editor who could make that work. 

Is this the first finale in the Twitter Age that neither Jensen nor Jared tweeted about? There was one tweet from Danneel with the glowy-eyes freeze frame that Jensen 'liked', and Jared responded next day to a Tweet from Christian Keyes about a BTS photo. AFAIK that's it. I don't know how much can be read into that, but for me it says something.

[SueB]

23 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Is this the first finale in the Twitter Age that neither Jensen nor Jared tweeted about? There was one tweet from Danneel with the glowy-eyes freeze frame that Jensen 'liked', and Jared responded next day to a Tweet from Christian Keyes about a BTS photo. AFAIK that's it. I don't know how much can be read into that, but for me it says something.

I don’t think they always do the finale.  They were in NYC that morning, it’s more difficult when on travel.

[catrox14]

49 minutes ago, SueB said:

I don’t think they always do the finale.  They were in NYC that morning, it’s more difficult when on travel.

.  It takes them 30 seconds to tweet  "Watch the finale" .  And they were at the upfronts which makes them not tweeting about even more hilarious.

Edited May 25, 2018 by catrox14

[catrox14]

I really wonder how much Wayward Sisters factored into the finale and the rushed ending. I tend to think Dabb et al, had to have some kind of idea that it wasn't going to be picked up before it was formally announced.  That would make the rushed last two episodes make more sense if they had been thinking of writing in the WS crew or writing reminders of them to further prop the spinoff and when that didn't come through, they had to re tool things, which meant expanding short episodes with flashbacks, and stupid slow walking when they should have been running through the rift. Dumb things like that. 

There were two episodes of Jack flashbacks which I don't see why that was even necessary unless the showrunners and writers think the audience is too stupid to remember Jack's history. I feel like the whole Maggie murder and resurrection was pretty stupid and a complete waste of time. It's like Dabb cribbed from Brother's Keeper except that in the case of Dean at that time it was necessary to show that Dean was succumbing further to the Mark and going HAM on his hunts. 

[catrox14]

UO. I am so over Bobby, any version of him.  

I think it doesn't make any sense for AW Bobby to start spouting 'Our' Bobbyisms'.  I actually kind of liked the AW Bobby in the s12 finale and in s13 until the last two episodes, because he really wasn't like our Bobby.  And now AW Bobby is super okay with not going back to save the rest of humanity after his big speech about going back?  Is he just hanging around because he's jonesing after Mary?  Which RME.  And Mary seems not particularly eager to go back when that was why she was going to stay.  So stupid. 

Similarly with AW Charlie.  Why in the holy hell do they have her and Rowena hanging out as if we don't remember that Rowena's haranguing of Our Charlie is partly why Charlie is dead. 

THESE ARE NOT THE SAME PEOPLE SHOW.  And I will never see them as the same as the OG Bobby or OG Charlie. AW Charlie and Charlie should have been substantially different but NOPE, they are basically the same as in the version of 'Hunter' Charlie. 

And seriously, if the show is going to bring back those two why not bring back Benny? I mean other than actor availability?  Ellen?

[bethy]

48 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

THESE ARE NOT THE SAME PEOPLE SHOW.  And I will never see them as the same as the OG Bobby or OG Charlie. AW Charlie and Charlie should have been substantially different but NOPE, they are basically the same as in the version of 'Hunter' Charlie. 

I would think that AU characters would be such a fun, imaginative exercise for writers. You get to take characters you know well and think about how being born and raised in a different environment might change who they become, how they act and who they are.

And yet....

*Yells, “She’s not Laurel!” at the Arrow writers*

[gonzosgirrl]

54 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

And seriously, if the show is going to bring back those two why not bring back Benny? I mean other than actor availability?  Ellen?

I'm guessing bringing back Benny is a) too close to something Jensen wants for Dabb and Singer to ever do it, and b) too polarizing for the shippers that Dabb & Co seem so intent on appeasing. But man, I think they really missed an opportunity to have AW Ellen and AW Bobby be a power couple.

Edited May 25, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, bethy said:

*Yells, “She’s not Laurel!” at the Arrow writers*

LOL SAME. 

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

d b) too polarizing for the shippers

Eh, I'm a Destiel shipper and I would be a okay with AU Benny.  I never shipped him and Dean but saw them much more as war buddies and friends.   Nothing at all like Dean and Cas. That said, I get your point.

[Casseiopeia]

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I really wonder how much Wayward Sisters factored into the finale and the rushed ending.

I think a ton!  I think that Dabb and Berens were so confident that WS was going to get picked up they had probably planned that the finale would incorporate the Sisters heavily.  From what I understand the Duo was going to (for all intents and purposes) take over SPN while Berens became the showrunner for WS and Dabb would Exec produce/oversee both shows.  When that didn't happen they probably had an Oh Shit! moment and threw together a half assed finale that according to Jensen they have no idea where they are going to go with it. 

I really think that Dabb wants to be done with SPN and go on to a show of his own Creation.  I also think that Mark Pedowitz passing on WS (using the exact same language he used for Bloodlines) was a message to Dabb/Berens and whoever else wants a career after SPN.  They are not looking for a mediocre effort from these producer/writers.  This is my only hope for our show.  Maybe Dabb and Co. will put out a better product in the final 2 seasons if they want to have jobs in the future. 

 I think that is why they teased Jensen's new character months ago.  They needed fans to ignore how poorly written/directed/edited the episode was  and be excited about next season.

Edited May 25, 2018 by Casseiopeia

[SueB]

3 hours ago, catrox14 said:

.  It takes them 30 seconds to tweet  "Watch the finale" .  And they were at the upfronts which makes them not tweeting about even more hilarious.

 

Didn't they say "watch it tonight!" to the camera during their interview?  I'd have to rewatch to verify. 

I'd say the season opener is far more consistent than any other episode.  And even then, if they are filming/tired/busy, they won't live tweet.  And  I've seen no history of randomly plugging an episode (finale or not) via twitter.  When they comment it's usually specific - about a shot, a scene, who they are watching with,etc...  

Edited May 25, 2018 by SueB

[gonzosgirrl]

Meh. I still say for me the silence is, if not deafening, at least not a ringing endorsement. And Jensen has barely tweeted about the show at all since Dabb took over, Jared only slightly more.

[BlueSapphire]

If we're talking about seeing some new or different characters, what about someone Sam could join up with?

[ILoveReading]

6 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Is this the first finale in the Twitter Age that neither Jensen nor Jared tweeted about? There was one tweet from Danneel with the glowy-eyes freeze frame that Jensen 'liked', and Jared responded next day to a Tweet from Christian Keyes about a BTS photo. AFAIK that's it. I don't know how much can be read into that, but for me it says something.

There seemed to be far more hype from the writers/showrunners/BTS people for episode 21.   

I don't get it, because my UO is that 21 was terrible and basically just a copy and paste of an episode that shall not be named.

[catrox14]

2 hours ago, SueB said:

Didn't they say "watch it tonight!" to the camera during their interview?  I'd have to rewatch to verify. 

I'd say the season opener is far more consistent than any other episode.  And even then, if they are filming/tired/busy, they won't live tweet.  And  I've seen no history of randomly plugging an episode (finale or not) via twitter.  When they comment it's usually specific - about a shot, a scene, who they are watching with,etc...  

Yes they did and joked about not knowing it was actually on that night . joke or no?

[MysteryGuest]

I love Bobby, but that scene was poorly written.  They could have easily had him and Mary having a conversation about just how soon they could get back to the AU, or wondering how people were faring over there, or anything along those lines.  They could still have encountered the dead body along the way.  It's just bad writing, and we've been subjected to it since the writer exodus of a few years ago.  We don't get the same clever dialogue we used to get.  There are way too many soap opera pauses, musical interludes and flashbacks for my taste.  

All that aside, I really didn't dislike the finale.  The archangel fight didn't really work, but it'll be forgotten soon enough.  Unfortunately, it was the last thing we saw before summer hiatus so it sticks out more in our minds.  I doubt that Jensen or Jared are giving it a second thought.  Some scenes work and some don't.  And they're not shy about saying when they know it isn't working, as in the end of season 11.  I think Jensen is looking forward to whatever new persona he takes on next season, and meeting the challenge of that.  

As for the show runners not knowing how the story will go for next year, that's no different than every other year.  They always think up their big cliff hanger with no thought to what comes later.  It's annoying, but not unusual.

[SueB]

Apparently Unpopular opinion: Jared and Jensen like the show and have no intention (or subconscious desire) to throw shade at it in public fora.  Like any work environment, they have issues with some things time to time, but they aren’t interested in undermining the series with ‘deafening silence.’

[gonzosgirrl]

I don't think any of us can state so emphatically what Jensen and Jared think or don't think about anything. 

However I can't recall the last time Jensen tweeted anything in praise of an episode. And one of the last show related tweets he made at all was wishing Robbie Thompson was back (paraphrased). Give how very generous Jensen is with his praise, I don't feel that's insignificant. 

[MysteryGuest]

15 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I don't think any of us can state so emphatically what Jensen and Jared think or don't think about anything. 

Obviously, none of us know what they're really thinking.  But they've signed up for at least one more season, if not two, so if they're not happy with the writing, they're certainly in a position, after 13 years, to say something.  But this is also their livelihood, so biting the hand that feeds you isn't too smart.  If they have issues with the writing, taking to Twitter to bitch about it wouldn't be the best way.  I think they've always pretty much stuck with the party line, with a few minor exceptions, so I don't really expect that to change at this point.  Jensen has said he's excited about next season, so I guess we'll have to wait to see just how that turns out.  Maybe, since he has been the most vocal about his disappointment with the limited Demon Dean storyline, this new one will prove to be more rewarding for him.

[gonzosgirrl]

Exactly. The adage about if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all comes to mind. 

[DeeDee79]

19 hours ago, catrox14 said:

UO. I am so over Bobby, any version of him.  

I think it doesn't make any sense for AW Bobby to start spouting 'Our' Bobbyisms'.  I actually kind of liked the AW Bobby in the s12 finale and in s13 until the last two episodes, because he really wasn't like our Bobby.  And now AW Bobby is super okay with not going back to save the rest of humanity after his big speech about going back?  Is he just hanging around because he's jonesing after Mary?  Which RME.  And Mary seems not particularly eager to go back when that was why she was going to stay.  So stupid. 

Similarly with AW Charlie.  Why in the holy hell do they have her and Rowena hanging out as if we don't remember that Rowena's haranguing of Our Charlie is partly why Charlie is dead. 

THESE ARE NOT THE SAME PEOPLE SHOW.  And I will never see them as the same as the OG Bobby or OG Charlie. AW Charlie and Charlie should have been substantially different but NOPE, they are basically the same as in the version of 'Hunter' Charlie. 

And seriously, if the show is going to bring back those two why not bring back Benny? I mean other than actor availability?  Ellen?

My feelings on Bobby being back are mixed. One of the things that I liked most about the character was his bond with the brothers. The AU version has a bond with Mary and no relationship with Sam and Dean which sucks. I’m somewhat resentful that the writers did this.

[MysteryGuest]

27 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

My feelings on Bobby being back are mixed. One of the things that I liked most about the character was his bond with the brothers. The AU version has a bond with Mary and no relationship with Sam and Dean which sucks. I’m somewhat resentful that the writers did this.

It's the same with bringing back Charlie.  It was her relationship with Dean and Sam that we liked, and that's missing.  "Giving us what we want, but not the way we want it" really doesn't work too well when it involves beloved characters.   

[Katy M]

I feel like season 13 didn't have any spectacularly good episodes, or any spectacularly bad episodes.  Maybe ScoobyNatural, but I think that was more nostalgia and something different than spectacularly good.  

[MysteryGuest]

50 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I feel like season 13 didn't have any spectacularly good episodes, or any spectacularly bad episodes.  Maybe ScoobyNatural, but I think that was more nostalgia and something different than spectacularly good.  

I think season 13 was pretty much all about the possibility of the big spin off, and they used the AU and the possibility of bringing back every character we'd ever met as a way to appease the audience without really having to worry too much about plot.  We should have been given much more insight into what makes AU Michael tick, what happened in his world, etc., but they didn't bother.  Give us Bobby, Kevin, Ketch, Charlie and the return of Cas and Mary, and we'd be content with that.  Not so much.

[companionenvy]

I think S13 was decent, and largely entertaining, but full of missed opportunities, about which I am quite bitter. It is honestly laughable how little effort they put into developing the AU, which should have been an opportunity to easily inject some creative lifeblood into an aging show. 

AU Cas alone, if they hadn't turned him into a one-scene joke, could have been the subject of a fascinating subplot - and Misha, unlike the Js, isn't so busy that he couldn't have handled playing two versions of himself, especially if they'd kept our Cas in the Empty for a bit longer. Imagine Dean working to redeem a version of Cas that is far more damaged and brutal than the single-minded warrior of God he initially recruited to TFW, perhaps while (temporarily) mourning the loss of his own Castiel. Or suppose Charlie had, in this world, been a cynic who had actually sold out humanity and been working with the angels. What if instead of, stupidly, bringing back our Gabriel only to kill him pointlessly a few episodes later, we had met an AU Gabriel who actually had stepped up much earlier in the game and was humanity's great ally? Maybe working with an AU Balthazar? Or if AU Benny showed up as part of a group of monsters who had, in desperation, allied with humans against the angels, something that would have added a really interesting dynamic to the AU verse. The few scenes with AU Kevin, a character who managed to wring some real pathos out of his experiences, was just a tiny hint of what this plot could have done if the show had really committed to it.

Instead, we basically got glorified cameos from AU versions of several characters, and a heap of generic angel suits. Plus resurrected Ketch.  

[DeeDee79]

11 minutes ago, companionenvy said:

The few scenes with AU Kevin, a character who managed to wring some real pathos out of his experiences, was just a tiny hint of what this plot could have done if the show had really committed to it.

I agree with all of what you've said but the disservice ( IMO ) done to Kevin for the 2nd time really annoyed me. RW Kevin lost his loved ones, his future and eventually his life before being kept in the veil for years. I wish that AU Kevin could have been given a happy ending instead of having him kill himself after a miserable existence under Michael's rule. He deserved a second chance just as much as Charlie.

[Katy M]

I totally agree that Season 13 could have been so much more than what it was.  but, I didn't think any of the individual episodes were terrible.  Neither did I think they were great.  And, actually I'm pretty much all about the individual episodes anyway.  But, I realize that kind of TV is passe.  I think in a way, I'd rather have some horrific episodes as long as that meant they got balanced out with some outstanding ones.

[gonzosgirrl]

I actually thought the premiere was one of the best. Jack was a least a bit of a mystery (although in hindsight, his love of nougat was anvilicious, lol). 

Alas, I agree with the sentiment that entirely too much of our show was wasted on setting up the WS. In my opinion, that was Dabb's only focus and has been for a long time. Making him showrunner when his goal  (again IMO) is a spinoff, was a mistake. 

[Mulva]

4 hours ago, mertensia said:

Reminding someone that they had a deal is arrogance and hubris?

Thinking Michael would honor that deal is.

[trxr4kids]

20 hours ago, Mulva said:

My UO:

I thought Dean showed more arrogance and hubris in his two scenes in the season finale, when first he laid down the law to an Archangel, "I'm driving", then his howl of outrage, "we had a deal!" then Sam has in 13 seasons.

I'm left wondering why this post and all subsequent responses aren't in the bitch vs jerk thread. It's a conundrum for sure.

[Bobcatkitten]

With the reduction in episodes do you think Cas will be in the same number? Not sure how I feel about that. I enjoy Cas but not every week. I still want the primary focus to be Sam and Dean and it shifts when it's the three of them. 

[gonzosgirrl]

Ooops, never mind. Please delete.

Edited May 28, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[ILoveReading]

My unpopular opinion is that this is the worst season in terms of story telling and arcs.  There were episodes that worked individually but the season as a whole was so unfocused, disjointed, scatterd that I can't even describe what it was about.  s6 and 7 weren't' my favorites but at least I can look at them and say its about the leviathans, or Sam losing his soul.  I can't even remotely describe what this season was about.  I can't even say who the big bad really was.

I hope with fewer episodes this year we might get a tighter story but I don't have a lot of faith because I feel like season length is the main issue.  This season had some potentially interesting story lines, but the biggest problem is that there were too many none really got an kind of focus.

I feel like the biggest issue is the last of communication and mostly importantly the lack of leadership.  Dabb either isn't interested or capable of steering the ship. 

When I watch Lucifer (Fox show), I see the stark contrast.  Even the stand alone eps on Lucifer usually touched on the mythology.  Things that happened in past episodes were brought up again. Even with different writers tension builds and there is usually a satisfactory payoff.     It evident all the writers were on the same page. 

With SPN, I feel like every writer has an idea of the way the story should go and they don't care if it contradicts something that came before.

We learned weeks before that Jensen would play a character that wasn't Dean.  Instead of building to that in the last 6 eps, we got a literal rehash of Gabriel's redemption story, and then the final 3 episodes were mostly about Lucifer and Jack.  Was I supposed to be shocked Jack chose the Winchesters?  Was anybody really?  The Dean/Michael stuff was left the last possible second.  I mean they couldn't have delayed it anymore if they tried.

I look at Yockey's episodes.  He introduced that Lucifer's true face thing, but it was only ever mentioned in his eps.  Its like Berens/Dabb/Buck-Lemming either didn't know he introduced it or didn't care.  I thought it would have become a thing toward the end of the season but instead it looks like it was made up just specifically for Sam and Rowena to bond and they couldn't think of any other way to do it.

Same with Billie's words.  "See you soon, Dean." They were ominous and should have been touched on.  Maybe it will be next season, but it will be a pleasant surprise if it is.

I feel like Dabb has no interest in the Winchesters.  I think this showed.  With Wayward not getting picked up I can see several eps devoted to that, and more to Jack.  So I don't think 3 less episodes is going to change much. 

Edited May 28, 2018 by ILoveReading

[BoxManLocke]

5 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

I feel like the biggest issue is the last of communication and mostly importantly the lack of leadership.  Dabb either isn't interested or capable of steering the ship.

 

Yep. The show needs a strong hand. A vision. All good shows need that. But Dabb seems perfectly fine greenlighting every single shitty idea that comes his way, whether they're from the writers or actors (to rebound off catrox14's post, Felicia Day was the one who came up with the Charlie/Rowena road trip line. Barf.). There's talent in the writer's room if you take out BuckLeming, and the showrunner's job should be to channel all the input into something coherent that fits with the direction he wants to take the show to. Clearly Dabb isn't that guy at all. His seasons are sloppy and self-contained.

The only things from season 13 we're left with are Jack and 3 alternate versions of characters. If that's not a sign the season was garbage, I don't know what is.

I do think season 14 can be more focused because it's going back to basics in a lot of ways. However TPTB needs a huge shakeup. Singer should be the first to go because he sucks ass at the two things he's supposed to do, running the show and directing.

Edited May 29, 2018 by BoxManLocke

[Pondlass1]

Why would a skeptical bastard like Dean Winchester believe AU Michael?  We had a deal?  Yeah right!   Maybe Sam is the smart one. 

I'm not complaining.  I'm looking forward to Michael!Dean.  But I didn't like that line.  It was silly.  

[Katy M]

42 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

Why would a skeptical bastard like Dean Winchester believe AU Michael?  We had a deal?  Yeah right!   Maybe Sam is the smart one. 

I'm not complaining.  I'm looking forward to Michael!Dean.  But I didn't like that line.  It was silly.  

It was pretty stupid.  and It's not really Michael!Dean. It's just Michael. It's not like Michael is going to trade off control with Dean for his body. So, until Michael is out, for all intents and purposes, there is no Dean.

[Supafanstan]

2 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

Why would a skeptical bastard like Dean Winchester believe AU Michael?  We had a deal?  Yeah right!   Maybe Sam is the smart one. 

I'm not complaining.  I'm looking forward to Michael!Dean.  But I didn't like that line.  It was silly.  

Do you really think Dean believed him? It never even occurred to me until I saw it on Twitter after the episode. His "we had a deal" seemed more resigned and than surprised to me.

Hello btw. I have been looking for some place to talk about the show since that weird finale. Landed here and have spent the morning skimming the threads. Wow, y'all have some strong opinions! I look forward to sharing some of my own. Love that there is a thread like this. I see some names like yours I recognize from IMDb - I was just Supafan there but the name was already taken here.

[Katy M]

29 minutes ago, Supafanstan said:

Do you really think Dean believed him? It never even occurred to me until I saw it on Twitter after the episode. His "we had a deal" seemed more resigned and than surprised to me.

Hello btw. I have been looking for some place to talk about the show since that weird finale. Landed here and have spent the morning skimming the threads. Wow, y'all have some strong opinions! I look forward to sharing some of my own. Love that there is a thread like this. I see some names like yours I recognize from IMDb - I was just Supafan there but the name was already taken here.

I think he definitely thought they had a deal.  Why is another question.  And I still don't understand why he didn't take that 2 seconds to yell "GEt OUT" instead of we had a deal.  

[Aeryn13]

Quote

And I still don't understand why he didn't take that 2 seconds to yell "GEt OUT" instead of we had a deal.  

He could have but it`s not like that would have been more effective than "we had a deal".

In the entire show one angel, Gadreel, once said that while he was so weak himself, his vessel could easily kick him out whereas all other angel possession work as "you say yes once, for whatever reason and there are no take-backs ever". The angel Hannah even said how her vessel was screaming inside, no doubt something like "get out" 24/7. Michael is a strong archangel, kicking him out should be two trillian times harder. 

[catrox14]

I think Dean had a completely reasonable idea AU Michael would honor the deal given his outrage with Lucifer for breaking their deal.  I certainly don't see any hubris in Dean telling AU Michael, he would drive, given he was beaten pretty badly by Jack unless he was faking which I don't think he was. I will say this, if it turns out that AU Michael had a grand plan to get Dean to be his vessel by allowing Jack to harm him and then use that to manipulate Dean, well I would be impressed TBH.  I don't think that is what happened though. 

Of course, IMO, that was just shitty writing to bookend AU Michael saying it to Lucifer. 

IMO, it would have been a much better scene if Dean never said that at all.  Just let AU Michael take over Dean and let Sam and Jack figure out that he took Dean over.

[Supafanstan]

1 minute ago, Aeryn13 said:

He could have but it`s not like that would have been more effective than "we had a deal".

In the entire show one angel, Gadreel, once said that while he was so weak himself, his vessel could easily kick him out whereas all other angel possession work as "you say yes once, for whatever reason and there are no take-backs ever". The angel Hannah even said how her vessel was screaming inside, no doubt something like "get out" 24/7. Michael is a strong archangel, kicking him out should be two trillian times harder. 

I agree with this. Otherwise, I don't know why Sam didn't kick Lucifer out immediately once he realized he couldn't control him.  And I'm not 100% sure but if I do remember right, Castiel didn't vacate Claire until Jimmy agreed to take him back and I am sure she would've been screaming inside too. I will never believe until I hear the words from Dean or Jensen that Dean really believed Michael would just go away after the fight.

I think that's why he kept saying he had no choice, because he knew making a deal wouldn't hold water.

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, Supafanstan said:

I think that's why he kept saying he had no choice, because he knew making a deal wouldn't hold water.

I don't think he thought it would hold no water. I think he took a calculated risk.  Plain and simple. 
 

FTR, I don't think it's even close to being a "destiny" choice. Dean did it because he was a tactical move to save Sam and Jack and kill Lucifer. 

[Aeryn13]

I think trying to make a deal with Michael was a longshot at best - and Dean knew that - but he had to try something. Lucifer was the immediate worse danger at the moment but AU!Michael wasn`t a fluffy bunny either. If Dean didn`t at least TRY something to possibly migitate the danger, it would have looked even worse. So it was a desperate attempt but it was better than nothing.

[Supafanstan]

6 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I don't think he thought it would hold no water. I think he took a calculated risk.  Plain and simple. 
 

FTR, I don't think it's even close to being a "destiny" choice. Dean did it because he was a tactical move to save Sam and Jack and kill Lucifer. 

Oh I don't think it was any kind of "destiny" thing like in Season 5 either. He totally made the choice in the moment. I just think it was so agonizing for him because he knew Michael wouldn't honor any deal, especially this Michael, the AU one, who they have seen destroy his world and all the humans he could. Writing Dean as believing anything else would be foolish and out of character since he is the one who saw most of the angels for what they were since the beginning.

If it was as easy as yelling GET OUT he could have done it at any point after the fight. I think the angry "We had a deal" was just Dean being Dean, trying the only thing he had, which was imploring Michael to keep his word. Very Dean, IMO.

I looked up the Castiel and Claire thing. That's even more weird because it looks like Claire never even had to consent because it was 'in her blood'. I don't even remember that and for sure they have never used that one again.

CASTIEL: She's with me now. She's chosen. It's in her blood, as it was in yours.

[Supafanstan]

Another reason I don't think Dean believed Michael would keep his word, but did it anyway is, what was supposed to happen to Michael after? If Dean ejects him, does he just fly around as a celestial wavelength until he finds someone to say yes? And would Dean have been willing to let this happen? Just turn him loose in some other vessel to continue his mission to "save" everyone , or use his own grace to open the rift again? I don't think Dean would do that so his only option was to keep him in his meatsuit and try to find a way to defeat or control him from within, like Sam did in Swan Song. Probably the writers didn't think that far ahead?

[catrox14]

For a brief moment, I wondered if it was Dean who wouldn't let Michael leave. Like maybe Dean decided that he would keep AU Michael inside him in order to figure out what to do with him next. 

I dismissed that thought though when he straightened up and said thanks for the suit.  

Also, I could totally see Dean being the one who picked the clothing because he does love himself some cosplay.

[DeeDee79]

5 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Also, I could totally see Dean being the one who picked the clothing because he does love himself some cosplay.

If anything at least we get a few episodes of snazzy Dean :)

[Katy M]

33 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

If anything at least we get a few episodes of snazzy Dean :)

Snazzy Michael.  I'm sure Dean will change clothes as soon as Michael leaves him.

[DeeDee79]

2 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Snazzy Michael.  I'm sure Dean will change clothes as soon as Michael leaves him.

Sad but true. I'm going to enjoy all of the flannel-free scenes that I can get until that happens.

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

Sad but true. I'm going to enjoy all of the flannel-free scenes that I can get until that happens.

I dunno. Dean hung out in the cowboy outfit longer than necessary in Tombstone and back in Frontierland.