Supernatural Bitterness & Unpopular Opinions: You All Suck

[catrox14]

5 hours ago, OrigamiNightmare said:

Season three is my favourite Sam hair.

That's a good one too.

My Sam hair rankings are

Best to worst

9, 12, 11, 3, 8, 4, 5, 2, 1, 6,7,10 (except wet head was super hot)

Edited March 29, 2018 by catrox14

[Bobcatkitten]

This conversation about Sam's hair is cracking me up.

[ahrtee]

Also not much UO.  Maybe it should be in the Sam thread instead?

[catrox14]

34 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

Also not much UO.  Maybe it should be in the Sam thread instead?

 I put it here because I legit figured  my opinion on his s9 hair was unpopular. Wasn't even kidding about that. 

[ahrtee]

16 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

 I put it here because I legit figured  my opinion on his s9 hair was unpopular. Wasn't even kidding about that. 

I guess my UO is that I don't care about Sam's hair at all. :)

[catrox14]

27 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

I guess my UO is that I don't care about Sam's hair at all. :)

/gasp!!!!

[ILoveReading]

29 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

I guess my UO is that I don't care about Sam's hair at all. :)

I also share this UO. 

[DeeDee79]

2 hours ago, ahrtee said:

I guess my UO is that I don't care about Sam's hair at all. :)

*snicker*

[Res]

8 hours ago, ahrtee said:

I guess my UO is that I don't care about Sam's hair at all. :)

 

7 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

I also share this UO. 

I 10x that and double up on having the UO that I'm amazed (and annoyed somewhat) that this is even a thing. 

Honestly, I'm with Dean/Jensen in regards to shaving it off just so it doesn't pull me out of the show so much when it's constantly hanging in his face. Not to mention, the main reason MoC!Dean was left alone with the rapist in S10 was just for slo-mo hair flip in the car. Apparently, the director was taking glamour shots that day. ;-)

Seriously though, give him some barbie pins and pin that mess back! LOL!

All completely my UO and only my UO, not meant to offend others' opinions. 

Now back to the regularly scheduled 10th hair discussion of this current season . . . sorry to interrupt. :-)

Edited March 30, 2018 by Res

[Jeddah]

6 hours ago, Res said:

 

I 10x that and double up on having the UO that I'm amazed (and annoyed somewhat) that this is even a thing. 

Honestly, I'm with Dean/Jensen in regards to shaving it off just so it doesn't pull me out of the show so much when it's constantly hanging in his face. Not to mention, the main reason MoC!Dean was left alone with the rapist in S10 was just for slo-mo hair flip in the car. Apparently, the director was taking glamour shots that day. ;-)

Seriously though, give him some barbie pins and pin that mess back! LOL!

All completely my UO and only my UO, not meant to offend others' opinions. 

Now back to the regularly scheduled 10th hair discussion of this current season . . . sorry to interrupt. :-)

That’s a rather passionate post about how much you hate Sam’s hair. It doesn’t sound like you don’t care. It sounds like you care quite a bit!

[DeeDee79]

1 hour ago, Jeddah said:

That’s a rather passionate post about how much you hate Sam’s hair. It doesn’t sound like you don’t care. It sounds like you care quite a bit!

I guess it’s all up to interpretation because to me it just reads as someone expressing their opinion as everyone one else has been doing.

[Wayward Son]

Bitterness & Potential UO 

 

As someone who loves time travel and general what if fanfic I have to admit I’ve been disappointed by the incorporation of AW. For me the best thing about these storylines is the opportunity to see where our beloved characters could have gone, which we didn’t get on show. For instance: 

 

+ Sam and Dean: Instead of killing them off in AU world (or wiping their existence) why not make this a world where Sam said yes to Lucifer and never regained control? Or why not make it a world where they both said yes and the big battle occurred? 

+ Castiel. What happened to him in the Apocalypse World? Did he still rebel without Dean’s influence, since s8 retconned him as always being troublesome? Did he stay and continue to be heavens perfect little soldier? Is he alive? Is he dead? If he’s dead under what circumstances? 

+ Old time favourites such as Jo, Ellen, Rufus, Anna, Ruby etc. Where are they in this world? 

 

Overall, to me the writers have failed on a character front. They neither used it as an excuse to bring back old favourites or provide us with a different ‘what if’ take on the current main cast. All we’ve really got out of it was AU Bobby (and Jim always makes his seasonal appearance diminishing the specialness of AU Bobby) or AUs barely recognisable to their earth one counterparts such as Zachariah. 

Edited March 31, 2018 by Wayward Son

[ILoveReading]

7 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Bitterness & Potential UO 

 

As someone who loves time travel and general what if fanfic I have to admit I’ve been disappointed by the incorporation of AW. For me the best thing about these storylines is the opportunity to see where our beloved characters could have gone, which we didn’t get on show. For instance: 

 

+ Sam and Dean: Instead of killing them off in AU world (or wiping their existence) why not make this a world where Sam said yes to Lucifer and never regained control? Or why not make it a world where they both said yes and the big battle occurred? 

+ Castiel. What happened to him in the Apocalypse World? Did he still rebel without Dean’s influence, since s8 retconned him as always being troublesome? Did he stay and continue to be heavens perfect little soldier? Is he alive? Is he dead? If he’s dead under what circumstances? 

+ Old time favourites such as Jo, Ellen, Rufus, Anna, Ruby etc. Where are they in this world? 

 

Overall, to me the writers have failed on a character front. They neither used it as an excuse to bring back old favourites or provide us with a different ‘what if’ take on the current main cast. All we’ve really got out of it was AU Bobby (and Jim always makes his seasonal appearance diminishing the specialness of AU Bobby) or AUs barely recognisable to their earth one counterparts such as Zachariah. 

 

I actually agree with all your saying.  The AU was totally wasted and under used.

I get a lot of it was budget but they could have had our world with differences, like they did in the fate ep (I'm blanking on the name right now.)

There were so many what if scenarios they could have played with but its like they didn't really know what to do with it.  The different versions of the characters, TBH, I don't find them all that different.  Other than Zacheriah.  But given that it was a different actor bascially playing stunt angel number 2, it didn't really have that much of an impact.

Edited March 31, 2018 by ILoveReading

[Aeryn13]

Yeah, gotta agree. The AU world has been a big buzzkill so far. They basically used it to bring back...Bobby. For his annual appearance these days. And a stoned Kevin. Wow. 

I like the idea of having both Dean and Sam in the world and just play around with the big battle. 

At the very least there should have been an AU!Cas. He could have been Michael`s lieutenant, planning a revolution against him. Or a loyalist. Or he could have led his own cadre of angels against Michael. It`s a world where angels are the ruling body apparently. There are many ways previous angels could have been brought in.   

Edited April 1, 2018 by Aeryn13

[catrox14]

Probably UO, but I am kind of bitter about the whole notion of Angels and archangels who are Multi-dimensional Waves of Celestial Intent going mad and being tortured by a Prince of Hell and have PTSD or whatever is pretty ridiculous. They have the ability to move through time, to stop time, to kill and resurrect. I literally cannot understand why they would ever go mad, or suffer trauma.  I just really got to thinking about this and none of it makes any sense.

Cas is a little different because he is in his own meatsuit. He's been "Human" although to me that doesn't really count either because to me he was just a graceless angel living the human experience. IMO, the attack dog spell really shouldn't have done a thing to him TBH. I handwave that as a function of him having been compromised a few times and that he has his own meatsuit which might different.

But the situations with Gabriel, and Michael is just well IMO, plain stupid.

Gabriel had the power to control time, and space given Mystery Spot day.  Yet somehow he gets captured and tortured?  I just call such BS other than for an excuse to bring by Dick Speight and give him some kind of big deal emotional acting stuff. Yet, Sam and Dean's respective traumas as humans having gone to Hell and back are largely unexplored, especially Dean's. Where is the big deal emotional trauma coping stuff for them? Why is that given to Dick Speight? That leaves me bitter.

And Michael's alleged madness makes the least sense. He was the most powerful archangel in Heaven. He was the leader of Heaven. Why couldn't he get out of the cage considering that cage was made specifically for LUCIFER by Chuck himself. That's why Crowley fashioned those chains from the Cage so he couldn't break through them...until the "reverse the polarity" bullshit". 

Why couldn't Michael send his stuff out to the world when the Cage cracked? I mean other than Singer/Dabb's obsession with Lucifer? 

It makes no sense. 

spoilers and speculation

Spoiler

I hope whatever is happening with Jensen playing another character, possibly Michael will restore Michael to having some damn street cred that was seen in s5 before they nerfed him and defanged him. 

[DeeDee79]

12 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

And Michael's alleged madness makes the least sense. He was the most powerful archangel in Heaven. He was the leader of Heaven. Why couldn't he get out of the cage considering that cage was made specifically for LUCIFER by Chuck himself. That's why Crowley fashioned those chains from the Cage so he couldn't break through them...until the "reverse the polarity" bullshit". 

I'm curious about something. When Rowena did the spell that weakened the cage enough for Sam and Cas to get in, where was Michael? Was there some kind of acknowledgment about him being there and catatonic or was the cage so big that Michael was in a completely different part of the cage? It just never made sense to me. Was it mentioned and I missed it?

12 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Probably UO, but I am kind of bitter about the whole notion of Angels and archangels who are Multi-dimensional Waves of Celestial Intent going mad and being tortured by a Prince of Hell and have PTSD or whatever is pretty ridiculous. They have the ability to move through time, to stop time, to kill and resurrect. I literally cannot understand why they would ever go mad, or suffer trauma.  I just really got to thinking about this and none of it makes any sense.

Shouldn't Archangels be stronger than Princes of Hell? Considering that the average demon isn't stronger than a regular angel I would think that Gabriel would have been able to fight off Asmodeus before he was able to kidnap him in the first place. Especially seeing how easily he killed him after he had been siphoning off his grace.

Edited April 16, 2018 by DeeDee79

[gonzosgirrl]

8 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

I'm curious about something. When Rowena did the spell that weakened the cage enough for Sam and Cas to get in, where was Michael? Was there some kind of acknowledgment about him being there and catatonic or was the cage so big that Michael was in a completely different part of the cage? It just never made sense to me. Was it mentioned and I missed it?

They didn't go into 'the' cage. Rowena transferred Lucifer to this holding cage and was supposed to zap him back when they were finished with him.

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

I'm curious about something. When Rowena did the spell that weakened the cage enough for Sam and Cas to get in, where was Michael? Was there some kind of acknowledgment about him being there and catatonic or was the cage so big that Michael was in a completely different part of the cage? It just never made sense to me. Was it mentioned and I missed it

Lucifer claims that Michael was off in some corner singing showtunes and diddling himself. I don't recollect that it was said he was out of the Cage.

[DeeDee79]

Just now, gonzosgirrl said:

They didn't go into 'the' cage. Rowena transferred Lucifer to this holding cage and was supposed to zap him back when they were finished with him.

Oh!! Thank you; it's been a while since I've watched that ep and I didn't remember that :)

Just now, catrox14 said:

Lucifer claims that Michael was off in some corner singing showtunes and diddling himself. I don't recollect that it was said he was out of the Cage.

Thanks! I didn't remember that either. Guess it shows that I wasn't too fond of the ep ;)

[catrox14]

Just now, gonzosgirrl said:

They didn't go into 'the' cage. Rowena transferred Lucifer to this holding cage and was supposed to zap him back when they were finished with him.

 

spoilers and spec

Spoiler

I really wonder if Dean is going to ask Rowena to do the same thing and that's how he says yes to Michael, if that happens.

[gonzosgirrl]

10 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

Shouldn't Archangels be stronger than Princes of Hell? Considering that the average demon isn't stronger than a regular angel I would think that Gabriel would have been able to fight off Asmodeus before he was able to kidnap him in the first place. Especially seeing how easily he killed him after he had been siphoning off his grace.

The whole Asmodeus story is stupid, beginning with there being more than one YED in the first place, IMO. But there has already been a spoiler of sorts,

Spoiler

that it was some other demi-god, maybe Kali?, who sold him out. So probably they provided Assmodeus with some way to keep him under control until he was weak enough to dominate.

[DeeDee79]

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

The whole Asmodeus story is stupid, beginning with there being more than one YED in the first place, IMO. But there has already been a spoiler of sorts,

  Reveal hidden contents

that it was some other demi-god, maybe Kali?, who sold him out. So probably they provided Assmodeus with some way to keep him under control until he was weak enough to dominate.

That would suck if that's the way that it happened.

Spoiler

Kali may have been angry about him hiding the fact that he was an Archangel but he still intervened before Lucifer had a chance to kill her. They're shitting all over one of my favorite season 5 eps!

[Castiels Cat]

On 3/29/2018 at 3:57 PM, ahrtee said:

I guess my UO is that I don't care about Sam's hair at all. :)

I does not do a thing for me. I cannot lie.

Sam's hair is Just there. Now Dean's is to Die... for.

On 4/15/2018 at 8:42 PM, catrox14 said:

 

spoilers and spec

  Hide contents

I really wonder if Dean is going to ask Rowena to do the same thing and that's how he says yes to Michael, if that happens.

That or Billie takes him to Michael because he is dying and she thinks he is too important to die.

They may need a way into hell now that Crowley is dead unless Rowena's powers suffice. 

[Castiels Cat]

On 4/15/2018 at 8:29 PM, DeeDee79 said:

I'm curious about something. When Rowena did the spell that weakened the cage enough for Sam and Cas to get in, where was Michael? Was there some kind of acknowledgment about him being there and catatonic or was the cage so big that Michael was in a completely different part of the cage? It just never made sense to me. Was it mentioned and I missed it?

Shouldn't Archangels be stronger than Princes of Hell? Considering that the average demon isn't stronger than a regular angel I would think that Gabriel would have been able to fight off Asmodeus before he was able to kidnap him in the first place. Especially seeing how easily he killed him after he had been siphoning off his grace.

 

I will go with generic archangel warding for the Cage. Holds all archangels.  Only every expected to hold Lucifer.  Once Michael was put inside he was stuck.

Both Lucifer and Chuck are unreliable narrators.

All signs point to Dean!Michael.

Everything about the Asmodeus/Gabriel storyline is irksome. Asmodeus should not have been able to inject archangel grace. It should have killed him. DumdumdumdumDUMB.

And whilst Gabriel being tortured is rather karmic since his trickster m.o. involved torture I really do not see how this all played out either.  And I do not want to see him get revenge on the denigods and fail to see why he would need help.  He is the trickster and a powerful archangerl and knows full well revenge is a dish best served cold. Wait.  Then strike.  

Filler.

Edited April 25, 2018 by Castiels Cat

[Castiels Cat]

On 4/15/2018 at 8:42 PM, gonzosgirrl said:

The whole Asmodeus story is stupid, beginning with there being more than one YED in the first place, IMO. But there has already been a spoiler of sorts,

  Hide contents

that it was some other demi-god, maybe Kali?, who sold him out. So probably they provided Assmodeus with some way to keep him under control until he was weak enough to dominate.

There were 2 white eyed demons why not multiple yellow eyed demons?

On 4/15/2018 at 8:19 PM, catrox14 said:

Probably UO, but I am kind of bitter about the whole notion of Angels and archangels who are Multi-dimensional Waves of Celestial Intent going mad and being tortured by a Prince of Hell and have PTSD or whatever is pretty ridiculous. They have the ability to move through time, to stop time, to kill and resurrect. I literally cannot understand why they would ever go mad, or suffer trauma.  I just really got to thinking about this and none of it makes any sense.

Cas is a little different because he is in his own meatsuit. He's been "Human" although to me that doesn't really count either because to me he was just a graceless angel living the human experience. IMO, the attack dog spell really shouldn't have done a thing to him TBH. I handwave that as a function of him having been compromised a few times and that he has his own meatsuit which might different.

But the situations with Gabriel, and Michael is just well IMO, plain stupid.

Gabriel had the power to control time, and space given Mystery Spot day.  Yet somehow he gets captured and tortured?  I just call such BS other than for an excuse to bring by Dick Speight and give him some kind of big deal emotional acting stuff. Yet, Sam and Dean's respective traumas as humans having gone to Hell and back are largely unexplored, especially Dean's. Where is the big deal emotional trauma coping stuff for them? Why is that given to Dick Speight? That leaves me bitter.

And Michael's alleged madness makes the least sense. He was the most powerful archangel in Heaven. He was the leader of Heaven. Why couldn't he get out of the cage considering that cage was made specifically for LUCIFER by Chuck himself. That's why Crowley fashioned those chains from the Cage so he couldn't break through them...until the "reverse the polarity" bullshit". 

Why couldn't Michael send his stuff out to the world when the Cage cracked? I mean other than Singer/Dabb's obsession with Lucifer? 

It makes no sense. 

spoilers and speculation

  Hide contents

I hope whatever is happening with Jensen playing another character, possibly Michael will restore Michael to having some damn street cred that was seen in s5 before they nerfed him and defanged him. 

Existential crisis.  Michael was waiting his entire life to execute Dad's plan and then it did not happen.  I would take a few years to reflect and evaluate.

[gonzosgirrl]

8 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

There were 2 white eyed demons why not multiple yellow eyed demons?

Why not 5? Why not 27? Why not 127?

Because they are messing with canon, with the staples of the show. And every time they do, they make it a little harder to invest in anything. Not lore, not rules of the universe, certainly not death. It harms the show, IMO. It most definitely sucks the joy out of a rewatch.

[Casseiopeia]

10 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

Both Lucifer and Chuck are unreliable narrators.

I think Andrew Dabb is an unreliable narrator.  He and his writers add and discard canon/lore with wild abandon.  Yes Michael could be entirely intact just jonesing for a fight or not.  It just depends on the fan-canon going on in whichever writers head at the time.

[catrox14]

IMO the show decided to scuttle Michael and his connection to Dean in s5, and since there is a not small part of fandom that really wanted a Michael!Dean they had to reduce Michael to being nothing to stop questions about why is Lucifer back but not Michael since the cage held both of them but only one mattered in s11.  Who me bitter?

[sarthaz]

13 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

There were 2 white eyed demons why not multiple yellow eyed demons?

Existential crisis.  Michael was waiting his entire life to execute Dad's plan and then it did not happen.  I would take a few years to reflect and evaluate.

I'll buy this. Angels, for the most part, have been shown to be total tools, and Michael was the king. Lucifer has individuality. He rebelled against God in the first place and in the end, he tried to walk away from the Apocalypse. Being caged with Lucifer means Michael's entire existence is a failure, and Lucifer -- experienced torturer and cage veteran -- would tear his essence apart.

From a production perspective, Michael doesn't have a meaningful vessel to me. Nick is perfect for Luci, but Adam isn't nearly as interesting. Really, the best Michael was "Song Remains the Same" John Winchester, and I don't know how they could even leverage that for his return. There's really no version of Michael they could present to me that would carry any weight, including AW!Michael, who of course they make a black guy, because any time they want an intimidating dickbag, they cast a black dude.

[DeeDee79]

4 hours ago, sarthaz said:

AW!Michael, who of course they make a black guy, because any time they want an intimidating dickbag, they cast a black dude.

Wow, you're in my head!

[devlin]

I think gabe is an awful character and I can’t stand speight nor his acting

[Myrelle]

3 hours ago, devlin said:

I think gabe is an awful character and I can’t stand speight nor his acting

ITA. He does "smarmy" and little more that I can see-a very limited actor with a huge ego, IMO.

[Katy M]

4 hours ago, Myrelle said:

ITA. He does "smarmy" and little more that I can see-a very limited actor with a huge ego, IMO.

I have no idea about the actor's ego, but I have always wondered about the appeal of Gabriel.  I don't think he's the worst character of this show, but until this season, he'd been in a grand total of 5 episodes, well spread out timewise,  and people were always clamoring for more, and I never really understood why.

[ILoveReading]

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

I have no idea about the actor's ego, but I have always wondered about the appeal of Gabriel.  I don't think he's the worst character of this show, but until this season, he'd been in a grand total of 5 episodes, well spread out timewise,  and people were always clamoring for more, and I never really understood why.

I think its mostly to do with Cons.  Rich is very popular.

[Bobcatkitten]

I think the character is a selfish douche. But I do smile at some of his jokes and smarminess. Glad he took a beating a bit.

[Reganne]

On this board, I would say I have the unpopular opinion as I love Gabriel and Richard.  I can't wait to see more of him.  :)

[Bobcatkitten]

UO - I am soooo over Cas and his damn trenchcoat. The idea that he is still wearing the same thing so many years later is dumb.

[DeeDee79]

11 hours ago, Bobcatkitten said:

UO - I am soooo over Cas and his damn trenchcoat. The idea that he is still wearing the same thing so many years later is dumb.

I agree. Even if he kept the trench coat and wore something besides the shirt and tie would be a welcome change.

[gonzosgirrl]

2 hours ago, BoxManLocke said:

Him staying behind with Rowena means the Lucifer scenes will be a much bigger deal than I thought, which is a huge bummer. Lucifer sucks so much, you can even tell from the goddamn promo pics.

So much agreement with this. I still can't believe they wrote out Crowley/Mark S because they thought the character was played out, but they are happy to pound this character into the ground season after season. I am so over Lucifer that it has turned me off the actor, and I have always admired Mark P's talent.

It's funny, this show ruined both Marks for me in other roles, but one in a very good way, and one in a very bad way.

[BoxManLocke]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

So much agreement with this. I still can't believe they wrote out Crowley/Mark S because they thought the character was played out, but they are happy to pound this character into the ground season after season. I am so over Lucifer that it has turned me off the actor, and I have always admired Mark P's talent.

It's funny, this show ruined both Marks for me in other roles, but one in a very good way, and one in a very bad way.

Yeah I'm going to be very happy not seeing Pellegrino on my screen for a few years. That is, if they finally get rid of him in the coming weeks.

 

The character is going nowhere. He's still the aimless, whiny brat he was last season (but boy he sure is funny ! *gags*). The "development" that's going to lead to him meeting with Jack has been abysmal. I hope to God they get rid of him in episode 22 so that he doesn't stink up the finale as well. Making him sacrifice himself for Jack is the least terrible thing they can accomplish for Lucifer now. It would even fit with that stupid redemption theme they've got running this season.

 

Dabb had his fun with his favorite and as usual failed to create anything interesting. Let him go. I won't take another season of this crap.

Edited May 2, 2018 by BoxManLocke

[Res]

Carried over from Spoilers Thread: Re: 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

This does not matter to me at all and in fact is not something that I actually want to see since they tend to manufacture these scenes regardless of whether they make sense or not, IMHO. IMHO they use these crap "FEELZ" scenes just to pander to the audience, like it's a requirement for them to have these type of moments in every finale whether it fits or not to the point where these scenes have become a huge joke to me and I've come to look at them as a huge waste of time.

There are two reasons for this, again all IMHO; 

      1. there will be a season of drama, lies, deceits, etc., then to get that final "required BM" suddenly it's all good because one or the other makes a vague "I lied" type comment that is supposed to resolve all the crap from the previous 7-8 months and make everything "puppies and cupcakes" until the beginning of the next season where they start all the drama all over again. So I'm either not supposed to care about all the crap over the season because it will be resolved with a single throw away line. Or not care about the BM because it is, IMHO, a bunch of crap since everything is still swept into that that huge mountain under the carpet. Based on all this, the BM is crap, literally, IMHO.  Play me once, shame on you. Play me eleven more times, shame on me.

      2. they make a joke out of the finales so that I can only rewatch half of them if that. For instance, the season 9 finale where Dean was making a deal with Death to remove him from the planet so that he couldn't hurt anyone and become like Cain. There was ABSOLUTELY NO reason, IMHO, for Sam to ever have been involved in that plan, much less part of that investigation. The only reason he was there was to get the required BM in which was such a load of crap, IMO, that I was sarcastically commenting along with it "Rocky Horror" Style and not in a good way. That type of OTT manipulative crap was just manufactured wangst leading to a "shock and awe" moment that leads NO WHERE as usual which makes the BMs stink like the real biological meaning. 

So the show that is supposed to be about "Family" has actually make that subject such an abusive, dysfunction joke that it isn't even funny, IMHO. And that is my UO.

[MysteryGuest]

2 hours ago, Res said:

So the show that is supposed to be about "Family" has actually make that subject such an abusive, dysfunction joke that it isn't even funny, IMHO. And that is my UO.

I have to say that I felt more manipulated in the earlier seasons when they always had Sam or Dean...or both, lie to the other brother.  I absolutely hated that and it went on for years.  At least now when they do occasionally lie or keep secrets, they normally come clean fairly quickly.  After all this time and what they've gone through, there really is no reason for them to lie to one another anymore.  I hope the trend continues.

Edited May 6, 2018 by MysteryGuest

[BoxManLocke]

Yeah Dabb has tried to shake up the formula for the finales and cut on the lies and drama. The downside is that he struggles to involve the brothers in a meaningful way, so I'm not sure which version is better in the end. I remember very little about the season 11 finale and last year's was really boring until the ridiculous last 10 minutes with the multiple deaths to hide the emptiness.

 

This season there's a new attempt to involve one of the brothers but it's already falling into the old tropes.

[AwesomO4000]

17 minutes ago, BoxManLocke said:

I remember very little about the season 11 finale and last year's was really boring until the ridiculous last 10 minutes with the multiple deaths to hide the emptiness.

Heh, I'm with you on last season's finale - I don't even remember the last 10 minutes - but I actually remember quite a bit about season 11's. I think my favorite part was Dean planning his own (amusing) funeral in his usual way to cover up how scared he was and then just letting the hug with Sam happen anyway. "You love chick Flicks." "Yeah, I do." The trip to the sanitarium to get some souls was suitably and refreshingly old school (I liked Dean's impersonation of Rowena), and I also liked the appearance of hopeful Sam giving everybody a kick in the butt to get going. I really miss that Sam the second half of this season.

There was no big boom conclusion, but for some reason, I was okay with that this time.

[BoxManLocke]

8 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Heh, I'm with you on last season's finale - I don't even remember the last 10 minutes - but I actually remember quite a bit about season 11's. I think my favorite part was Dean planning his own (amusing) funeral in his usual way to cover up how scared he was and then just letting the hug with Sam happen anyway. "You love chick Flicks." "Yeah, I do." The trip to the sanitarium to get some souls was suitably and refreshingly old school

 

No you're right. Like I said, I forgot, but that tends to happen to me for finales that don't follow up on their cliffhangers ; and Mary and the BMOL sure were busts. But the scene at Mary's grave and the ghost-hunting trip were really cool scenes.

I don't know how popular this opinion is here but I actually found quite a bit to like about season 11. Sam and Dean both grew a lot in this season, Amara was a pretty cool villain and Lucifer was still a menacing presence. It's only when Dabb truly took over that trouble began.

Edited May 6, 2018 by BoxManLocke

[AwesomO4000]

2 minutes ago, BoxManLocke said:

I don't know how popular this opinion is here but I actually found quite a bit to like about season 11.

Heh, I'll do you one better... I have the unpopular opinion of season 11 being in my top 5 seasons of the show going by seasons I enjoyed most. Along with season 2, 5, 1, and 7. Six is close after at #6. While I can admit that much of season 4 was fairly well written, I just didn't enjoy it as much. (Too grim for me, and the red herrings were kind of annoying). Season 3 has a couple of my favorite episodes of the show, but it was a bit uneven for me, with quite a few I found meh. I found 10 the same way, but liked  it a bit more maybe than 3 in some ways.

[Res]

In my case, my UO is that s11 was an irritating snooze fest where everything from S10 back was swept under the rug and not much happened, especially where Dean was concerned, except that he got a lecture over how he'd forgotten the family business motto that he started but whatever. Amara was a huge disappointment as they didn't know what exactly to do with her or her connection to Dean because they were too busy propping up Lucifer(God)/Sam stuff that's been done to death. Then actually making Chuck God of all things . . . yeah, nothing really to like or that I want to remember of S11.

[belbar]

19 hours ago, Res said:

In my case, my UO is that s11 was an irritating snooze fest where everything from S10 back was swept under the rug and not much happened, especially where Dean was concerned, except that he got a lecture over how he'd forgotten the family business motto that he started but whatever. Amara was a huge disappointment as they didn't know what exactly to do with her or her connection to Dean because they were too busy propping up Lucifer(God)/Sam stuff that's been done to death. Then actually making Chuck God of all things . . . yeah, nothing really to like or that I want to remember of S11.

Well, it might be an UO but you're not alone in it. I agree at 100%. The end of season 10 to me was fantastic. I was left with the "knowledge" that The Darkness was a terrible amoral force that had needed to be fought in a war by God and archangels, and once defeated to be locked and secured by the MOC, and releasing it would be the end of everything, not just an apocalypse on Earth but a danger to the the whole Creation. It was epic.  And it'd happened. We were left seeing like that force had started to unravel and trapped our heroes and I couldn't wait for the next season to start and see what would happen.

And then Amara happened.

Edited May 7, 2018 by belbar

[AwesomO4000]

5 hours ago, Res said:

In my case, my UO is that s11 was an irritating snooze fest where everything from S10 back was swept under the rug and not much happened, especially where Dean was concerned,

I'm not sure that this is an Unpopular Opinion on this board now.

I was going to say a bunch more, but decided that it might sound like debating, so I decided against it. Just pretend that it was brilliant. ; ) .

6 hours ago, Res said:

Amara was a huge disappointment as they didn't know what exactly to do with her or her connection to Dean

I didn't have much problem getting the relationship between Dean and Amara. My unpopular opinion is that I actually liked that neither Dean nor Amara understood it exactly. For me it lent to the necessity of Amara wanting to figure it out, thereby learning more about Chuck's creation with Dean being the representative. If we understood the exact connection, for me I would've wondered why Amara would bother to find out more. "Oh, I have a connection with this mortal because XYZ... so if I can't kill him directly, guess I can send something else to do it and be done with him...." Or just let Dean die instead of saving him. Because a smart entity wouldn't have wanted someone around that she couldn't kill and who might find a way around not being able to hurt her unless there was a reason for it. So curiosity as a motive worked well for me, and I thought the writers used it well. Because Amara couldn't hurt Dean she could spend time with him... everyone else she tried to spend time with she eventually wanted to destroy (because that was in her nature) or eat, so for me, I liked that there was a reason Amara would give Dean a chance so she could learn more. But I get that others might not agree.

5 hours ago, belbar said:

I was left with the "knowledge" that The Darkness was a terrible amoral force that had needed to be fought in a war by God and archangels, and once defeated to be locked and secured by the MOC, and releasing it would be the end of everything, not just an apocalypse on Earth but a danger to the the whole Creation. It was epic. 

My unpopular opinion is no thank you. Not after having pinned it all on Sam. I personally didn't need to see more stuff piled on him. And the stuff about the mark being a lock and key that had to be on a person - or theoretically a demon no less - in order to work for me didn't even make much sense and was only put in there so that the person removing it - Sam - would end up with all the blame for the bad that happened. So I was glad Carver's influence was starting to wane in season 11. I can't imagine what awful stuff he would've done had he had more of a presence in season 11.

And I was ready for a more balanced season after seasons 9 and 10. Only my opinion on that.

[belbar]

9 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

My unpopular opinion is no thank you. Not after having pinned it all on Sam. I personally didn't need to see more stuff piled on him. And the stuff about the mark being a lock and key that had to be on a person - or theoretically a demon no less - in order to work for me didn't even make much sense and was only put in there so that the person removing it - Sam - would end up with all the blame for the bad that happened. So I was glad Carver's influence was starting to wane in season 11. I can't imagine what awful stuff he would've done had he had more of a presence in season 11.

I think that by now I 've got and idea of your general opinion of the characters and the show, and I specially appreciate they way that you always express it: respectfully. That's not something that everybody does. But that said I don't agree with much of it. I know your favourite characther is Sam and that's ok, we all have our favorite. But what I don't understand is why you seem to think that everybody is trying to blame Sam for everything and that the writers try to pin all the wrong decissions and consequences on him. I just don't see it that way. Sam is who the writers make him to be. Nothing more, or less (and that's specially true with him because unlike Jensen, Jared plays the character straight from the script) so if Sam does something (whatever it is) it's not because the writers want to make him look good or bad. That's who Sam is because that's who the writers have made him to be. You may like the chararcter or not. But that's it. That's the way I see it.

So to change a potentially epic story of the eternal battle between good and evil for a boring drama of a woman pining for a love she couldn't understand and who was keeping a grudge with her brother and was after revenge just because you thought that it was going to be unfairly pinned on Sam is not something that we'll agree on. Sure you're right that it didn't make much/any sense that the whole existence of Creation was depending on a mark put on a person, but let's be honest this is not the right show to watch for things that make sense. The whole premise of it, is not exactly scientific. It's why is call Sci-fi.

So I'm not sure whose idea is the unpopular one, but I'm telling you since the end of Season 10 to me everything has been kind of meh. It doesn't matter if the arc is for Dean or Sam none of them have been interesting or well done IMO. We may have an episode or a moment here and there, but that's all.

And come to think about it, I guess I'll say that my UO is that I don't like this assemblance show they're evolving to, where the characters I'm interest in are not the main ones anymore.