Supernatural Bitterness & Unpopular Opinions: You All Suck

[Casseiopeia]

1 minute ago, PinkChicken said:

I rewatched What is and What Should Never Be recently, and they manage to get the message across that hey yeah these guys DO save a bunch of people, and in this dream land actually a hellof a lot of people are dead -all in less than a minute, with Deans face and a couple of newspaper clippings. So to me, they had plenty of time to switch it up, and maybe instead of a massive wake they should have found ways to showcase all the people they have helped over the years, even if it would have been just another clipshow (its not like the ep wasn't one montage after the other anyway)

WIAWSNB was written by Raelle Tucker. Dabb couldn't tie her shoe's.

[gonzosgirrl]

Sam texts Jody:

"Jody, I need to talk to you. It's.. Dean."

Sam's phone rings 10 seconds later.

Do not tell me they couldn't have even worked a phone call with Jody or Donna into things.

But at the very, VERY least they could have had Sam say something.

I can't recall - did the series end without Sam ever having said the words 'I love you' to his brother? Ironic that Dean gets painted as the emotionally stunted one.

[Castiels Cat]

5 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Sam texts Jody:

"Jody, I need to talk to you. It's.. Dean."

Sam's phone rings 10 seconds later.

Do not tell me they couldn't have even worked a phone call with Jody or Donna into things.

But at the very, VERY least they could have had Sam say something.

I can't recall - did the series end without Sam ever having said the words 'I love you' to his brother? Ironic that Dean gets painted as the emotionally stunted one.

Cas said Dean's love changes everyone. So it made Sam a spoiled,, self-entitled manchild.

[Castiels Cat]

24 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

I think a lot of characters were supposed to be in the finale originally (like JDM, Samantha, Kim, Brianna etc.) but it would have meant quarantine for 2 weeks for just one scene. No one could logistically commit to that.  Most of them have families and other projects going on. I understood that but the whole premise of the episode was just awful.

They could have used an old reaction shot and then cut to Sam listening to them talk about what Dean meant to them. Or they could have sent videos for a virtual hunters funeral. A good writer that actually cared would have done it. This is the guy that wanted WS to be about rubber suit monsters.

[Casseiopeia]

8 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Sam texts Jody:

"Jody, I need to talk to you. It's.. Dean."

Sam's phone rings 10 seconds later.

Do not tell me they couldn't have even worked a phone call with Jody or Donna into things.

But at the very, VERY least they could have had Sam say something.

I can't recall - did the series end without Sam ever having said the words 'I love you' to his brother? Ironic that Dean gets painted as the emotionally stunted one.

That was kind of weird. Sam didn't have any other lines other than "Me too" to Miracle. Like I said Dabb doesn't have a lot of imagination.

I never thought of Dean as emotionally stunted. It's funny he gets painted that way.  Maybe Dean thought he was but his emotions were all over his face. He was the one that initiated most of the hugs. He felt the most pain over the suffering of his family and friends.

I think the directors just turned on camera's and let Jensen do his thing.

Just now, Castiels Cat said:

They could have used an old reaction shot and then cut to Sam listening to them talk about what Dean meant to them. Or they could have sent videos for a virtual hunters funeral. A good writer that actually cared would have done it. This is the guy that wanted WS to be about rubber suit monsters.

I can't argue with that. Dabb wrote a very pedestrian script that pretty much fizzled out 15 seasons of Supernatural

[Castiels Cat]

On 11/23/2020 at 4:06 AM, NougatJack said:

Yeah, but that´s not an unpopular opinion here I think? And this is the "unpopular opinion"-thread, so... 

The show would have been great if Jack would have stayed dead. He is a throwaway character that was given a main character's storyline and purpose. This is why the ratings tanked. This is why there is no longer a show. This is one of the fundamentals reasons that the writing was atrocious.

[Castiels Cat]

4 hours ago, Myrelle said:

So I guess Dabb's 30% was made up of the Sam/JP fans,  the bronlies, and the wincesters then.

Sounds about right. 

Also, maybe it's just me but Misha Collins sat on his hands while one of his best friend's reputation was ripped to shreds by his delusional fanbase, but the minute they attack the network that might possibly offer him employment, he speaks up and out to them to set the record straight. 🙄

I'll say it again Jensen, with friends like these...

Thank God it's finally over.

 

Misha just posted a video on FB chastising his fanbase. It may not be everything that needs to be said but he told them what he thought. He doesn't discuss JA/Dean really just Cas. He definitely thought it was romantic IMO.

[Casseiopeia]

2 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

Misha just posted a video on FB chastising his fanbase. It may not be everything that needs to be said but he told them what he thought. He doesn't discuss JA/Dean really just Cas. He definitely thought it was romantic IMO.

His fans are saying the network is forcing him to say something (i.e. lie) to quiet all the misplaced outrage.  They want to spread venom and no one not even Misha (or the truth) is going to stop them.

[gonzosgirrl]

9 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

His fans are saying the network is forcing him to say something (i.e. lie) to quiet all the misplaced outrage.  They want to spread venom and no one not even Misha (or the truth) is going to stop them.

I wouldn't be surprised if the network asked him to say something, but I think the problem is that now he's telling the truth, without innuendo.

[Castiels Cat]

Supernatural is trending. Do they care how? This is why I do not fathom how they let Dabb throw Dean under the bus. Maybe the answer is that Jensen wanted out and didn't fight it.

 

[juppschmitz]

12 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

They could have used an old reaction shot and then cut to Sam listening to them talk about what Dean meant to them. Or they could have sent videos for a virtual hunters funeral. A good writer that actually cared would have done it. This is the guy that wanted WS to be about rubber suit monsters.

The thing is, they spent seasons developing and finally resolving this whole elaborate plot revolving around God and his sister, his children and his grandson. Seasons. As if this whole family was what the show was about instead of the Winchesters. From what I gather from this forum Sam and Dean were barely involved in this whole story. 

So they only had Sam and Dean's fate be resolved in the very last episode almost as an afterthought. 

Their ending could have happened without anything that happened over the last 15 years. Any stupid soap opera could have had one character dying from a freak work accident and showing the two reunited in heaven decades later.

And no matter how many people you show mourning that one person's death or how many people you show greeting them in heaven, it doesn't make the blatant lack of interest in those characters any less disrespectful.

Feel free to disagree.

[Castiels Cat]

4 hours ago, juppschmitz said:

The thing is, they spent seasons developing and finally resolving this whole elaborate plot revolving around God and his sister, his children and his grandson. Seasons. As if this whole family was what the show was about instead of the Winchesters. From what I gather from this forum Sam and Dean were barely involved in this whole story. 

So they only had Sam and Dean's fate be resolved in the very last episode almost as an afterthought. 

Their ending could have happened without anything that happened over the last 15 years. Any stupid soap opera could have had one character dying from a freak work accident and showing the two reunited in heaven decades later.

And no matter how many people you show mourning that one person's death or how many people you show greeting them in heaven, it doesn't make the blatant lack of interest in those characters any less disrespectful.

Feel free to disagree.

You nailed it.

[BornToDie]

I’ve always felt it was taboo to criticize Dean or Jensen in the very beginning of the series about acting, appearance, or much of anything and that hasn’t changed too much for the duration of the show.

[DeeDee79]

38 minutes ago, BornToDie said:

I’ve always felt it was taboo to criticize Dean or Jensen in the very beginning of the series about acting, appearance, or much of anything and that hasn’t changed too much for the duration of the show.

 I don't know what transpired at the beginning of the show but IMO it's not currently taboo on twitter, tumblr or on this forum. There is plenty of criticism of Jensen and tons of criticism towards Dean as well. 

[Katy M]

7 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

 I don't know what transpired at the beginning of the show but IMO it's not currently taboo on twitter, tumblr or on this forum. There is plenty of criticism of Jensen and tons of criticism towards Dean as well. 

Back when IMDB had commenting, if you even just said something nice about Sam, you would get attacked as a Dean hater.  there was one person who was quite rabid about it.  And heaven help the person who actually said something critical about Dean (or Jensen).  I think there are some pretty rabid fans out there (for both of them).  And, you just need to find reasonable communities where it's OK to voice any (reasonable*) opinion.

By reasonable, I mean non-violent, non-personally hate-filled etc.  i.e., It's OK to hate a character, the writing, or the acting, but not OK to wish death or harm upon an actor, writer, or director or a poster.

Edited January 15, 2021 by Katy M

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

Back when IMDB had commenting, if you even just said something nice about Sam, you would get attacked as a Dean hater.  there was one person who was quite rabid about it.  And heaven help the person who actually said something critical about Dean (or Jensen).  I think there are some pretty rabid fans out there (for both of them).  And, you just need to find reasonable communities where it's OK to voice any (reasonable*) opinion.

By reasonable, I mean non-violent, non-personally hate-filled etc.  i.e., It's OK to hate a character, the writing, or the acting, but not OK to wish death or harm upon an actor, writer, or director or a poster.

And see, what I always found interesting is that on "open" forums like IMDB - which I agree had some  quite toxic  fans of all stripes - and this one,  that are independently run, tendencies seem to lean toward Dean/Jensen, whlie on the private/fan run boards, saying anything negative about Sam/Jared would get you censored, if not banned outright. Often not even Sam-negative but merely Dean-positive worked the same. I guess what I'm saying is if sentiments seem to run pro-Dean/Jensen here, it's because we can. Seems reasonable to me. 

Edited January 15, 2021 by gonzosgirrl
missed a word

[PAForrest]

37 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

And see, what I always found interesting is that on "open" forums like IMDB - which I agree had some  quite toxic  fans of all stripes - and this one,  that are independently run, tendencies seem to lean toward Dean/Jensen, whlie on the private/fan run boards, saying anything negative about Sam/Jared would get you censored, if not banned outright. Often not even Sam-negative but merely Dean-positive worked the same. I guess what I'm saying is sentiments seem to run pro-Dean/Jensen here, it's because we can. Seems reasonable to me. 

I remember the waning days of TWOP where pretty much 90-95% of Dean fans just left about a year or so before the whole site finally shut down because there was no point in staying. It got so you weren't allowed to say anything positive about Dean or Jensen even in the Dean/Jensen thread. I remember we all stopped posting at one point in the Dean/Jensen thread and one of the mods finally came in and said something like "why did you stop posting - don't stop posting." Talk about tone deaf. Of course, once Dean/Jensen fans stopped posting, the board started dying. D'oh.

In fact, years before that, before the final Dean-fan purge, at least one poster created a forum just for Dean/Jensen fans because of the crap that was always happening to Dean fans on TWOP. So it's not like we weren't always targeted there.

If you're that interested in Dean/Jensen hate, just go to twitter or tumblr.

Edited January 15, 2021 by PAForrest

[Aeryn13]

35 minutes ago, PAForrest said:

 

If you're that interested in Dean/Jensen hate, just go to twitter or tumblr.

Or one can watch all the Dabb Season, especially the Series Finale. If that one doesn't satisfy the hate quota, I don’t know what would.

[PAForrest]

1 minute ago, Aeryn13 said:

Or one can watch all the Dabb Season, especially the Series Finale. If that one doesn't satisfy the hate quota, I don’t know what would.

Seriously. How much more Dean hate could you possibly want than that? 😡

[tessathereaper]

Yeah I can't say I found the IMDB boards biased in particular, it's just that it was one of the few places Dean fans weren't pushed out or silenced simply for existing.  I remember on one board(can't remember the name anymore but it was one of the most popular independent SPN boards of the time and had tens of thousands of posts) the mods actually used to delete threads and posts on the Dean and Jensen boards so it wouldn't look like he was getting more posts than Sam and Jared.  But tumblr and twitter is the place to be for the hate if that's what you want.

[Pondlass1]

I sometimes feel bad for AWESOME on this board. She must feel like a lone voice sometimes, nevertheless she clearly states her case to explain and support Sam  and is always polite and respectful.

 

[ByTor]

Please keep in mind that this is a thread for discussing your unpopular opinions about the show. Kindly keep the discussion about this and not the opinions of other online forums (TWOP, Twitter, etc...). And, as always, it is ok to criticize the show & its actors; it is never ok to criticize other posters.

[Nick24]

Hi! I am gonna put my list of favorite episodes for each season. I hope it is OK to post it here, because it might be UO.

TOP5 S1

1) Faith

2) Devil's Trap

3) Skin

4) Something Wicked

5) The Benders

TOP5 S2

1) What Is And What Should Never Be

2) In My Time Of Dying

3) Children Shouldn't Play with Dead Things

4) Crossroad Blues

5) Nightshifter

TOP5 S3

1) No Rest For The Wicked

2) Dream A Little Dream Of Me

3) A Very Supernatural Christmas

4) Jus in Bello

5) Bad Day At Black Rock

TOP5 S4

1) Lazarus Rising

2) On The Head Of A Pin

3) In The Beginning

4) Death Takes A Holiday

5) Are You There, God? It's Me, Dean Winchester

TOP5 S5 

1) The End

2) Abandon All Hope...

3) Dark Side Of The Moon

4) Free To Be You And Me

5) Good God, Y'All

I am gonna continue a little later :)

Edited May 22, 2022 by Nick24

[Nick24]

Let's continue

TOP5 S6

1) The Man Who Would Be King

2) Appointment in Samarra

3) Frontierland

4) Mommy Dearest

5) Live Free or Twihard (because of vamp!Dean)

TOP5 S7

1) Slash Fiction

2) Time After Time

3) Hello, Cruel World

4) Meet The New Boss

5) The Mentalists

TOP5 S8

1) Blood Brother and Citizen Fang

2) As Time Goes By

3) Everybody Hates Hitler

4) What's Up, Tiger Mommy?

5) We Need to Talk About Kevin

TOP5 S9

1) First Born

2) Do You Believe in Miracles?

3) King Of The Damned

4) Blade Runners

5) Stairway To Heaven and Mother's Little Helper

TOP5 S10*

1) Reichenbach/Soul Survivor (I think Demon!Dean is my favorite Dean's version)

2) The Executioner's Song

3) The Werther Project

4) The Prisoner

5) Inside Man

*I can't believe, that these episodes were written by Andrew Dabb and Robert Berens. Could someone tell me, what the heck happened to them after S10?

TOP5 S11

1) Safe House

2) Baby

3) Into The Mystic

4) Thin Lizzie

5) All In The Family and Alpha And Omega (because of Dean/Chuck chats and Amara arc resolution)

In S12 I loved only Regarding Dean, the rest was meh to bad to horrible

In S13 I liked only Advanced Thanatology, the rest was bad to horrible to godawful

In S14 I liked only Nihilism, the rest godawful to ''salt & burn''

Season 15 I wanna salt and burn myself

Edited May 22, 2022 by Nick24
Mistake

[Nick24]

Well, let's talk about least favorite eps now.

S1: Home (Missouri was getting on my nerves so much, that I have no idea how my screen survived it)

S2: it's hard, none of S2 eps were bad....maybe The Usual Suspects or Croatoan were less better

S3: Ghostfacers (Watching it I was like ''What's happening? This show is about Sam and Dean! Why are showing me those idiots?" Yeah, I know, silly me)

S4: After School Special (horrible writing/acting for young!Dean)

S5: Fallen Idols and Swan Song (because of destroying the whole point of Season 4)

S6: everything with Campbells (they were like Missouri 2.0, only worse)

S7: The Girl Next Door (imo manipulative writing to make the viewers hate Dean even when there was no reason to)

S8: Man's Best Friend with Benefits (idk what was that...) and maybe Taxi Driver (canon assassination, but Dean/Benny scene was very powerful I have to admit)

S9: Bloodlines (how could they even put this writer in charge later?) and Thinman (horrible parallels)

S10: Paper Moon (again horrible parallels) and maybe The Things We Left Behind (I was again like ''I do not care about Claire. It's not her show!'')

S11: The Devil in the Details (another round of canon assassination) and Red Meat (it was like a fanfic from obsessed fangirl)

 

 

[FlickChick]

@Nick24, I loved most of your selections in each category! Re: Dabb and Berens, I believe they decided to salt and burn the show because their attempts at spin-offs didn't get picked up. I also don't understand the apparent dislike (hatred?) of Dean/Jensen, but it seems to me they really had a grudge.  Why TPTB ever put Dabb in charge is beyond my imagination.

[Nick24]

@FlickChick thank you for your reply and reading my posts. It's nice to know that there are still people, who are interested in talking about SPN and have some similar opinions :)

Actually I never was a big fan of TV shows/movies and even when I watched, I never was invested in characters. But SPN is something different. SPNverse itself used to be so rich. And the most important, SPN was the first show, where I started to feel for characters.

I don't know how Jensen Ackles managed to do it, but Dean Winchester was/is so real for me. He's like my imaginary friend, just in another universe. His life journey really sucked me in the show (I guess my point of no return was the episode Faith). 

He always kept fighting even when it seemed, that there was nothing to fight for. Even when he was beaten down (incl. by his loved ones) he still found internal strength to stand up and keep going. Dean unintentionally helped me to deal with my own issues. 

So there is no surprise how shocked I was after 15.20...I drank all the herbal tea I could find at home. What a terrible message those writers sent. Apparently I'll never get over that finale.

Quote

I believe they decided to salt and burn the show because their attempts at spin-offs didn't get picked up. I also don't understand the apparent dislike (hatred?) of Dean/Jensen, but it seems to me they really had a grudge. 

It seems so, but if it is really the case, this is so pathetic.

I guess, it's very easy to destroy something, especially if you (general you) are not the one who had been building it for years. 

[Nick24]

IDK, if it's UO here or not, so I'll post it here to be safe.

IMO Dean/Benny friendship was the best bromance I've ever seen/read about. 

They both were warriors and they understood each other so well. It's hard to describe, but it was like they had some special connection, only the two of them knew about.

I guess, Benny was the only one character of the entire show, who truly understood who Dean is.

[Nick24]

Another opinion.

I am also angry how they ended Amara in s15. I mean, she was locked away for how much time? Apparently for no actual reason. Then she turned out to be much better than most of their so-called protagonists...And what did they finally do to her? They locked her inside that Jack. When she just wanted to enjoy her life after Dean showed her another options in 11.23. Apparently, freedom and free will do not exist, if your name is either Amara or Dean.

Edited May 21, 2022 by Nick24
grammatic mistake

[Nick24]

I hope noone minds, that I took a residence in this thread.

IMO Azazel and Alistair were the best villains. They were really terrifying (especially Fredric Lehne's Azazel) and very sadistic (especially Heyerdahl's Alistair). They both were so much better than that whining Lucifer and Chuck The Villain. 

Also Dean!Michael had a great potential to be the best villain because of JA, and Demon!Dean really scared me...well, the less I talk about it, the better.

[DeeDee79]

2 hours ago, Nick24 said:

IDK, if it's UO here or not, so I'll post it here to be safe.

IMO Dean/Benny friendship was the best bromance I've ever seen/read about. 

They both were warriors and they understood each other so well. It's hard to describe, but it was like they had some special connection, only the two of them knew about.

I guess, Benny was the only one character of the entire show, who truly understood who Dean is.

I agree wholeheartedly and given Jensen's praise of Ty and Benny in general it's frustrating that they did the character and their friendship such a disservice. Benny along with Victor Henriksen are missed BFF opportunities for Dean IMO. 

[DeeDee79]

2 hours ago, Nick24 said:

I hope noone minds, that I took a residence in this thread.

IMO Azazel and Alistair were the best villains. They were really terrifying (especially Fredric Lehne's Azazel) and very sadistic (especially Heyerdahl's Alistair). They both were so much better than that whining Lucifer and Chuck The Villain. 

Also Dean!Michael had a great potential to be the best villain because of JA, and Demon!Dean really scared me...well, the less I talk about it, the better.

IMO Azazel was the show's best villain; he was essentially the reason why the Winchesters were such a broken family before Dean and Sam even existed. My personal 2nd favorite was Abaddon though they could have done more with the character. She was very underused after she was introduced and her death was somewhat rushed after a scant amount of eps during season 9.

[Nick24]

26 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

I agree wholeheartedly and given Jensen's praise of Ty and Benny in general it's frustrating that they did the character and their friendship such a disservice. Benny along with Victor Henriksen are missed BFF opportunities for Dean IMO. 

I agree! I got the feeling, that Mr Carver decided to kill off Benny, because he realized that he went too far with Sam's maturity in S8 (Yeah, I've already read about it and I gotta say, that I do not wanna know, how IMmaturity looks like in Mr Carver's eyes). Benny started to look like a better brother to Dean, than Sam had ever been (IMO Benny was a better brother). But apparently most of the writers thought, that Dean was nothing but Sam's guard dog (look at 8.23, 9.01, 10.23, 11.17, 15.20). I strongly disagree with it and I believe that Dean is much more than that, but who cares?

IMO the only writer who was almost always letting Dean Be About Dean and freely express his feeling/emotions without any apologizing was Raelle Tucker (best examples are her episodes  ''Children Shouldn't Play with Dead Things'' and ''What Is and What Should Never Be'').

Edited May 21, 2022 by Nick24
Mistake

[DeeDee79]

29 minutes ago, Nick24 said:

IMO the only writer who was almost always letting Dean Be About Dean and freely express his feeling/emotions without any apologizing was Raelle Tucker (best examples are her episodes  ''Children Shouldn't Play with Dead Things'' and ''What Is and What Should Never Be'').

What's infuriating is that the few times that Dean is allowed to express his anger and emotions it's almost always erased by the end of the episode by an apology "sorry, I was being a dick" "you were right" etc, etc. It's truly frustrating. It gets more prevalent during the Dabb years (shocking, right?) 🙄

Edited May 21, 2022 by DeeDee79

[Nick24]

4 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

What's infuriating is that the few times that Dean is allowed to express his anger and emotions it's almost always erased by the end of the episode by an apology "sorry, I was being a dick" "you were right" etc, etc. It's truly frustrating. It gets more prevalent during the Dabb years (shocking, right?) 🙄

I totally share your feelings. IMO that was mostly Berens, the others too, but Berens imo enjoyed it. His eps in S11-15 were pure torture for me. 

In Supernatural Wiki there are links to the scripts. IDK, if they are real or not, but recently I read a lot of them.

So, there was network draft for 14.03 The Scar. I wish I never read it. When there was a description of Dean being interrogating DarkKaia, there was written "leaving us to wonder: is this true sadism or just a bluff''. I thought I got a stroke after that.

More than that, there was also written something like ''Off Dean, grateful for Sam's forgiveness" Because apparently Michael was only Dean's fault per Berens. I'm gonna be sick :(

[Nick24]

1 hour ago, DeeDee79 said:

IMO Azazel was the show's best villain; he was essentially the reason why the Winchesters were such a broken family before Dean and Sam even existed. My personal 2nd favorite was Abaddon though they could have done more with the character. She was very underused after she was introduced and her death was somewhat rushed after a scant amount of eps during season 9.

OMG I forgot about Abaddon. She was cool too and Alaina Huffman was great as Abaddon. But imo the writers were too busy with angelic war 2.0

I think they could do with both Abaddon and Cain a lot more.

Now I want a scene with Abaddon, Cain and Demon!Dean together.

[DeeDee79]

1 minute ago, Nick24 said:

Now I want a scene with Abaddon, Cain and Demon!Dean together.

That would have been absolutely amazing!

[Nick24]

1 hour ago, DeeDee79 said:

What's infuriating is that the few times that Dean is allowed to express his anger and emotions it's almost always erased by the end of the episode by an apology "sorry, I was being a dick" "you were right" etc, etc. It's truly frustrating. It gets more prevalent during the Dabb years (shocking, right?) 🙄

I want to point out, that I never felt that Dean was being a dick. I mean, expressing emotions and not being nice when everyone wants you to is not being a dick in my book. Sorry not to sorry, Dabb/Berens/whoever.

The only time Dean really was being a dick is when he ditched Benny in 8.10 Torn and Frayed because of Sam's ultimatum. THAT was a dick move, not sending a fake message from Angry Lady. Dean just should've walked away.

[Nick24]

One more opinion :)

IMO the most important unexplored things about Dean's character were his Hell trauma and his relationship with John.

Edited May 21, 2022 by Nick24
mistake

[MAK]

20 hours ago, Nick24 said:

Well, let's talk about least favorite eps now.

S1: Home (Missouri was getting on my nerves so much, that I have no idea how my screen survived it)

S2: it's hard, none of S2 eps were bad....maybe The Usual Suspects or Croatoan were less better

Although I agree with almost all your takes, I have to say, I really liked Home, in spite of Missouri. I just ignored her, because she had no real reason to dump on Dean the way she did.

Yes, it is hard to rank S2 episodes.

It is very frustrating when writers stop writing the characters the way they are supposed to. Thankfully both Js changed things when they situations went too off the rails. Unfortunately it was probably not as often as it should have been. 

[Nick24]

10 minutes ago, MAK said:

Although I agree with almost all your takes, I have to say, I really liked Home, in spite of Missouri. I just ignored her, because she had no real reason to dump on Dean the way she did.

Yes, it is hard to rank S2 episodes.

It is very frustrating when writers stop writing the characters the way they are supposed to. Thankfully both Js changed things when they situations went too off the rails. Unfortunately it was probably not as often as it should have been. 

I loved a scene in Home, where Dean was calling John and also where he was talking to Sam about that night. But it wasn't just Missouri, who was annoying me. That was also John, that was Sam, who apparently was enjoying Missouri's behavior towards Dean, also Mary!Ghost, who could have said Dean something more than ''Dean".

Also I forgot, that S11 had one more truly horrible episode - ''We Happy Few'', where they of course were trying to give the MoC to Sam. Why wouldn't they?

Edited May 21, 2022 by Nick24
Mistake

[DeeDee79]

42 minutes ago, Nick24 said:

But it wasn't just Missouri, who was annoying me. That was also John, that was Sam, who apparently was enjoying Missouri's behavior towards Dean, also Mary!Ghost, who could have said Dean something more than ''Dean".

All the reasons why it's one of my least favorite eps. I never enjoy episodes where they pile on Dean for kicks (which is why I hate the Dabb era) and Missouri was a total ass to Dean right out of the gate.

Edited May 21, 2022 by DeeDee79

[Nick24]

8 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

All the reasons why it's one of my least favorite eps. I never enjoy episodes where they pile on Dean for kicks (which is why I hate the Dabb era) and Missouri was a total ass to Dean right out of the gate.

I can only assume, that Mr Kripke thought that was funny. Unfortunately we have different sense of humor.

[Nick24]

One of my favorite scenes of the show:

- Dean meeting Mary for the first time in 2.20 WIAWSNB

- Dean singing in the car in 3.16 NRFTW

- Dean saying young!Mary ''Don't get outta bed'' in 4.03 In The Beginning

- Dean trying to smile in the final scene of 7.11 Adventures in Babysitting

- Fight in Cain's house in 9.11 First Born 

- Dean's death in 9.23 DYBIM. This scene was so amazing and realistic. I thought it was impossible to make better death scene than it was in 3.16. I was wrong

- All scenes with Demon!Dean

- Dean interrogating Metatron in 10.10 The Hunter Games. He was really scary!Dean

- Dean/Cain fight in 10.14 The Executioner's Song

- Dean's confession in 10.16 Paint It Black

- Mirror scene in 12.11 Regarding Dean 

- Michael!Dean and our!Dean common scene in 14.10 Nihilism

 

[DeeDee79]

7 hours ago, Nick24 said:

- Dean trying to smile in the final scene of 7.11 Adventures in Babysitting

 

One of the many times that Jensen made you feel Dean's pain acutely.

 

7 hours ago, Nick24 said:

- Fight in Cain's house in 9.11 First Born 

 

Even more impressive once we found out that it was all Jensen and not a stunt double!

 

7 hours ago, Nick24 said:

- Dean's death in 9.23 DYBIM. This scene was so amazing and realistic. I thought it was impossible to make better death scene than it was in 3.16. I was wrong

 

And honestly Jared really sold Sam's sorrow when he realized that Dean was gone. He seemed even more devastated than when he died in NRFTW.

[Nick24]

25 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

One of the many times that Jensen made you feel Dean's pain acutely.

 

I rewatched that scene several times in a row and every time it was getting better and even more painful. What a wonderful silent scene, no need in words, everything was on his face 

25 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

Even more impressive once we found out that it was all Jensen and not a stunt double!

 

OMG! I didn't know that! Really impressive. Now I have to rewatch First Born keeping that revelation in mind.

25 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

And honestly Jared really sold Sam's sorrow when he realized that Dean was gone. He seemed even more devastated than when he died in NRFTW.

I agree, that scene was perfectly acted by both of them. My favorite moment was when Dean used his last seconds to say ''I'm proud of us'', trying to look straight in Sam's eye and even trying to make his voice sound stronger and you could feel that he truly believed in it and that he thought that it was really the better way. I was so surprised and glad, that Jeremy Carver gave that line to Dean. Dean deserved it.

Edited May 22, 2022 by Nick24

[Nick24]

Also the final scene of Season 9 Finale, where Crowley was talking to Dean's body was very powerful too. Mark S really sold it. And writing once again was very good. Yeah, the 2nd half of S9 impressed me by both writing and acting so much (with few exceptions).

Edited May 22, 2022 by Nick24

[tessathereaper]

God they did Mark S so dirty in the last couple seasons.

[Nick24]

1 hour ago, tessathereaper said:

God they did Mark S so dirty in the last couple seasons.

Oh yes! I could barely recognize Crowley in S11-12. His scenes with Lucifer looked like a sitcom and were a total disrespect to Mark Sheppard.

I wonder, maybe Dabb and Co. were so jealous of Jensen's and Mark's talent 

[Nick24]

Some thoughts.

In 14.19 Jack was making angels from humans. OK. So, if per Dabb his Jack was so good, so kind, so grateful, so awesome.....why didn't he turn Dean and Sam into angels?? It could have been useful in S15 with their Chuck nonsense and after that with saving people/hunting things, especially considering that Jack didn't bother to get rid of monsters...oh, and btw, where was that paradise on Earth they promised in 12.19 The Future?

Oh, sure, I again forgot, that logic left the building, when Dabb took over. Sorry.