S02.E07: After

[Umbelina]

32 minutes ago, marinw said:

So what happened to June’s voiceovers? That was a choice the writers made, I am wondering why.

For most of this episode, she didn't need them. She could speak pretty freely, and the rest was easily shown on her face.

[Emily Thrace]

On 2018-06-01 at 2:24 PM, dleighg said:

Then what are the "death shots" of her? It looks like she was in a grassy field, along with (I think) one or two other people. I am seriously confused by those binders of death photos and how they ended up in a room in Canada.

I wonder if it was people who were escaping to Canada or just running away from the fighting. If they died and people didn't have time to bury them taking a picture on your phone would be a way to memorialize and pass on word to any family that might be alive. Or even if you came across a body while you were running.  In the age of the smart phone I could see it being something that happens in a viral sort of way. Odette looked like she was left alone in the woods still in her normal clothes.  It didn't look like an organised execution there would have been other bodies if there was. I suspect she was running away too and was left behind by whoever killed her.

[Umbelina]

It could also be drones or satellite surveillance. 

I can't remember what Odette was wearing, but since apparently Moira thought she'd been sent to the Colonies, she could have been escaping from one of those.  They aren't all nuclear waste clean up, there are also crop growing colonies.

[Anela]

I'm catching up on the episodes, and just finished this one. What did Serena hand to June, to read? And isn't that illegal for both of them? Serena writing, and June reading?

[Umbelina]

31 minutes ago, Anela said:

I'm catching up on the episodes, and just finished this one. What did Serena hand to June, to read? And isn't that illegal for both of them? Serena writing, and June reading?

The orders she's giving to Fred to sign.

Yes, they both were committing crimes.  Reading, and writing are forbidden for women.

[Idiotboy]

Quote

How do TPTB decide if a 15 year old girl will be an Eco wife or a Handmaid?  Wouldn't you think they would want more HM's?

My wife and I can't get around this question either, especially when Eden happened upon the scene. Nick's pretty low on the totem pole to be given a wife, especially with so much infertility going around, and you just know there's some dirty old Commander who'd like to get his grubby mitts on Eden's (underage) ovaries.

[Umbelina]

23 minutes ago, Idiotboy said:

My wife and I can't get around this question either, especially when Eden happened upon the scene. Nick's pretty low on the totem pole to be given a wife, especially with so much infertility going around, and you just know there's some dirty old Commander who'd like to get his grubby mitts on Eden's (underage) ovaries.

 

24 minutes ago, Idiotboy said:

How do TPTB decide if a 15 year old girl will be an Eco wife or a Handmaid?  Wouldn't you think they would want more HM's?

Handmaid's can only be chosen if they have "sinned."  If females haven't sinned (broken Gilead's laws, even before they were laws) they can not be made to be handmaids.  Some of those laws?  If the ever had an abortion, divorced or were involved with a divorced man, used birth control, gender traitors, possibly (probably?) because they were feminists, or protested Gilead in any way, or had been doctors (especially those like OB/GYN)  or in other professions Gilead didn't approve of, etc.  Any evidence of fertility or possible fertility added to the above made you a handmaid.

Eden and the other brides chosen haven't done that.  Married women who hadn't done that, with or without children, became the first Econowives, their husbands not leaders, but still honorable by Gilead standards, who also hadn't broken any Gilead laws was also required.  The husbands are the soldiers and the working class.

[Clanstarling]

On 5/23/2018 at 10:48 AM, Umbelina said:

That's a lot of red coffins.  I'm kind of surprised they didn't bury the Handmaid's in plain pine boxes, but visually it's nice.

And the Handmaids mourning clothes were visually stunning. Looks like Gilead put more thought into the Handmaidens outfits than the others.

On 5/29/2018 at 10:10 PM, mamadrama said:

The song "My Life" that was playing over the funeral scene at the beginning? My daughter is named after the singer; I love Iris Dement.

Is she the singer whose song was on The Leftovers?

On 5/30/2018 at 6:32 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I am telling myself that Moira had pictures uploaded to the cloud and once she got to Canada, she was able to access her account.

I was going to say social media - but I think this makes sense - as cloud accounts aren't (as far as I know) quite as easily interfered with.

On 5/30/2018 at 5:13 PM, kieyra said:

The scene with the handmaids whispering their names made me burst into tears. In Jan 2017 I was in a hair salon getting a haircut when I realized the woman in the chair next to me was discussing the upcoming women’s march on Washington. I asked her about it. Before long both our stylists and some other customers got involved in the conversation, talking about logistics of getting to the DC march or the local sister march.

And then I realized we were all talking in hushed, frightened voices in case someone overheard us. And it was all women in the salon. The fuck.

I made sure everyone in my family has active passports. What can I say? I've always been a worst-case scenario planner. Strange times.

On 5/30/2018 at 10:58 PM, lucindabelle said:

For the person who said why does she need an editor, I’m an editor. We do a lot more than correct grammar. She would be reading that defined the strongest points, change what should be upfront, organize it, and also make sure it’s in the voice of Mr. Waterford. It’s a lot.

As a writer who has had the opportunity to work with editors professionally, I will I confirm that. Any writer worth her salt knows and editor is an essential intellectual collaborator. My writing is better because of editors. Full stop.

On 5/31/2018 at 4:04 AM, AllyB said:

I don't think this has been mentioned upthread but it was mentioned that Glen was punished for Lillie's suicide bombing. He was the Commander Deeds who was executed along with his entire household. So he, his wife, Martha and driver were all hung (presumably) because Cushing somehow assumed that he had some role in his handmaid's rebellion.

Yes, that was almost a throw-away line. But I do remember it.

On 5/31/2018 at 4:25 AM, lesmisfits29 said:

So that 250k baby is supposed to be a newborn?! It is at least 2 months old if not 4! I kept wondering why would Moira keep the baby for so long before handing it over but then when she mentioned having to sit on ice I realized it was just an error of casting.

Yeah, the ice comment sealed the deal. I do remember those days. Nope that wasn't a newborn at all.

On 5/31/2018 at 5:07 AM, Empress1 said:

They never use newborns in movies or TV. I always notice. That baby was adorable though. But yeah, he was holding up his head and everything. They could at least have carried him like a newborn - they were holding him on hips!

Except on Call the Midwife.
 

On 5/31/2018 at 11:09 AM, dleighg said:

was this addressed upthread and I missed it? How did all of those photos get into the binders that Moira was looking at? It seems the only people in a position to take those photos would be their killers (that is, Guardians or high-up people in Gilead). How did the photos end up in Canada? And why are they without names? If they were hacked from a Gilead server, I assume they would have had the names attached.

 

On 6/1/2018 at 12:24 PM, dleighg said:

Then what are the "death shots" of her? It looks like she was in a grassy field, along with (I think) one or two other people. I am seriously confused by those binders of death photos and how they ended up in a room in Canada.

I took the photos as a direct reference to the photos smuggled out of Germany (and its minions) during the Holocaust. It's always amazed me just how many photos made it out (and some, like the Handmaidens letters, were found hidden in the camps).

There are multiple colonies, so the grassy field wouldn't be a problem (and to be fair, in a black and white photo, you can't tell if that's green or dead grass).

[mamadrama]

2 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

Is she the singer whose song was on The Leftovers?

 

No idea. I haven't seen The Leftovers. Iris Dement is a pretty famous Americana singer, though, and has been around for more than 20 years. 

[Clanstarling]

6 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

No idea. I haven't seen The Leftovers. Iris Dement is a pretty famous Americana singer, though, and has been around for more than 20 years. 

I'm not too familiar with Americana in general. But I did look it up and it was her - she sang "Let the Mystery Be" which was the theme song for at least a couple of seasons, I think. I don't know if this is one of her standard pieces, or if it was specifically for The Leftovers. She does have a distinctive voice.

[mamadrama]

1 minute ago, Clanstarling said:

I'm not too familiar with Americana in general. But I did look it up and it was her - she sang "Let the Mystery Be" which was the theme song for at least a couple of seasons, I think. I don't know if this is one of her standard pieces, or if it was specifically for The Leftovers. She does have a distinctive voice.

It came out in 1994 and is probably one of her most famous songs after "My Town" (which was also used in the series finale of NORTHERN EXPOSURE). Many people request "Let the Mystery Be" to be played at their funeral, something she thinks is funny. Most people know her for her touring and duets with John Prine. 

[NoSpam]

On ‎5‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 1:26 PM, GraceK said:

So can someone tell me what happens if Fred dies? Do they have Widows in Gilead? Does Serena still get the baby? Is she assigned a new husband? Become a Aunt? What would happen to her? 

My speculation is that these are the Aunts.

[Umbelina]

43 minutes ago, NoSpam said:

On 5/23/2018 at 1:26 PM, GraceK said:

So can someone tell me what happens if Fred dies? Do they have Widows in Gilead? Does Serena still get the baby? Is she assigned a new husband? Become a Aunt? What would happen to her? 

No one knows, but I really, really, really want to find out!  My personal guess is that they become Jezebels if they are pretty, unwomen if they are not.

43 minutes ago, NoSpam said:

My speculation is that these are the Aunts.

Quote

 

 

Unwomen

Sterile women, the unmarried, some widows, feminists, lesbians, nuns, and politically dissident women: all women who are incapable of social integration within the Republic's strict gender divisions. Gilead exiles unwomen to "the Colonies", areas both of agricultural production and of deadly pollution. Joining them are those handmaids who fail to bear a child after three two-year assignments.

or

Jezebels

Women forced to become prostitutes and entertainers. They are available only to the Commanders and to their guests. Offred portrays Jezebels as attractive and educated; they may be unsuitable as handmaids due to temperament. They have been sterilized, a surgery that is forbidden to other women. They operate in unofficial but state-sanctioned brothels, unknown to most women. Jezebels, whose title also comes from the Bible (note Queen Jezebel in the Books of Kings), dress in the remnants of sexualized costumes from "the time before", such as cheerleaders' costumes, school uniforms, and Playboy Bunny costumes. Jezebels can wear make-up, drink alcohol, and socialize with men, but are tightly controlled by the Aunts. When they pass their sexual prime and/or their looks fade, they are discarded, without any precision as to whether they are killed or sent to "the Colonies" in the novel.

 

  http://the-handmaids-tale.wikia.com/wiki/The_Handmaid's_Tale_(Novel)

Some think they are just married to another Commander, but I find that unlikely. Who wants to marry an older barren woman they can't even have sex with, when there are so many young nubile women coming of age?  Also women tend to outlive men, so just how many widowed Commanders would there even be?   Depending on how the Commander dies or is removed?  The wives may also simply be killed.

[Ceindreadh]

13 hours ago, Umbelina said:

No one knows, but I really, really, really want to find out!  My personal guess is that they become Jezebels if they are pretty, unwomen if they are not.

  http://the-handmaids-tale.wikia.com/wiki/The_Handmaid's_Tale_(Novel)

Some think they are just married to another Commander, but I find that unlikely. Who wants to marry an older barren woman they can't even have sex with, when there are so many young nubile women coming of age?  Also women tend to outlive men, so just how many widowed Commanders would there even be?   Depending on how the Commander dies or is removed?  The wives may also simply be killed.

If a Commander dies in good standing, I can’t see them punishing their widows by sending them to the Colonies or Jezebels.  

Maybe they'd be allowed to be Aunts, or put in some sort of retirement home. 

[dleighg]

3 minutes ago, Ceindreadh said:

Maybe they'd be allowed to be Aunts, or put in some sort of retirement home. 

to be honest, being put in a retirement home is more or less what they are already living. No sex, lots of knitting. Almost no chance of a kid.

[JennyMominFL]

On 5/31/2018 at 6:22 PM, JennyMominFL said:

I think about how Gilead was able to develop and Europe, Mexico etc, did not turn into this crazy Gilead-like world. I think it’s because those countries Don’t have massive fundamentalist populations like the USA. Most of Europe’s fundamentalists come here and it’s shaped our history. Imaging quiverfull, Duggar types dealing with a loss of population, a massive drop in children ,when their main goal is to make  enough kids to form an ARMY for god. These are the sorts who built Gilead.. 

 

ETA, I see there is talk about the loss of the Americans. I will miss it too and I’m happy that some of the people from that forum are here. I’m looking at you for one, Umbellina. This show and Billions can help fill that void.

[LeGrandElephant]

Makes no sense to have Emily and Jeanine back as handmaids, especially in the same neighborhood. I get that the show wanted to keep the actresses, but there are better ways to do that. For example, have them escape the colony, but not all the way to Canada. Maybe they end up in a more disputed part of the country, where Gilead doesn’t have such a solid hold, fighting against them. Emily could even eventually go into a Commanders house as an undercover Martha, get to know and help other handmaids, help the resistance, etc - but not in the same neighborhood. There are plenty of ways to keep the actresses without being this ridiculous. 

 

I also didnt really got why Serena would need an editor. It’s orders to do stuff, not a book. Surely she’s capable of that much writing on her own? Are we supposed to really believe she needs an editor, or is there some other motive?

[LeGrandElephant]

How did people in Canada know who was killed? How realistic is that? Do we know who is killed in North Korea each week? Maybe a better question is, does South Korea know who was killed in North Korea each week? 

 

I was was also confused by Odettes name being added to the names of Handmaids killed in the blast. But I didn’t think they had the wrong number, I thought they were going alphabetically and the shot faded out before they got through the whole alphabet. 

[Umbelina]

2 hours ago, LeGrandElephant said:

I also didnt really got why Serena would need an editor. It’s orders to do stuff, not a book. Surely she’s capable of that much writing on her own? Are we supposed to really believe she needs an editor, or is there some other motive?

She's an author.  I'm sure she was quite used to using an editor.

Also, she was committing a pretty serious crime there, she needed all the help she could get.  Writing those "orders" from Commander Fred was not the time to risk a typo or non-sequitur. 

[Beatriceblake]

I loved the subplot with Nick, Serena and June neutralising the threatening Commander.

Serena really got things done this episode. It's a shame she used her talents to bury herself alive.

Two things really took me out of the rest of it though. Moira's secret fiancee needed mentioning earlier (can't remember that ever happening). They appear to have made her up to give Samira Wiley more to do.

The major one was Emily being allowed back into Gilead proper. She's done three or four things Gilead kills people for. I don't really buy they would risk her going back there. Janine is less implausible. We know she had a healthy child in Gilead and although Gilead frowned on her "adultery" it makes sense they would overlook it when faced with a shortage of handmaids.

Also we've seen Emily was starting to experience side effects from the radiation so that needed addressing in the story. Gilead is concerned about women producing healthy kids so it seems weird they would take someone back who had been in the Colonies for long enough to get sick.

Edited July 2, 2018 by Beatriceblake

[pasdetrois]

Would anyone working in dangerous waste (the colonies) be used as a baby-maker?

[Umbelina]

4 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

Would anyone working in dangerous waste (the colonies) be used as a baby-maker?

If you read back through this thread, that issue has been addressed quite well by several people, some citing cases of women who've actually done this in Japan and gone on to have healthy babies, and others talking about the desperation for fertile women in Gilead, especially after the bomb blew up so many handmaids.

[Eureka]

Did you guys see this commentary of the funeral scene by the director? It’s so interesting.

[Umbelina]

Aunt Lydia loves her girls more than her own life?  Uh....hello!

Again, beautiful visuals, wonderful film work, but at a certain point the actually plot has to make sense as well.

1. When did they all practice that near ballet of a ceremony?
2. Those are pretty fancy coffins for slaves, especially slaves that have been mostly blown into tiny bits by a bomb.  Nice red coffins...seriously?
3. Generally in a graveside service there would be actually graves dug, or at least holes in the ground.  I see a tank, but nothing practical for burying them.
4. Just how far did those handmaids walk?  I see no signs of a city nearby, and the drone panned out pretty far.  Maybe they bussed them?

[Clanstarling]

10 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Aunt Lydia loves her girls more than her own life?  Uh....hello!

Again, beautiful visuals, wonderful film work, but at a certain point the actually plot has to make sense as well.

1. When did they all practice that near ballet of a ceremony?
2. Those are pretty fancy coffins for slaves, especially slaves that have been mostly blown into tiny bits by a bomb.  Nice red coffins...seriously?
3. Generally in a graveside service there would be actually graves dug, or at least holes in the ground.  I see a tank, but nothing practical for burying them.
4. Just how far did those handmaids walk?  I see no signs of a city nearby, and the drone panned out pretty far.  Maybe they bussed them?

The visuals were stunning, and I had a few similar questions - here are the conclusions I came to:

1. They practiced at the handmaid indoctrination/re-education center, where they would learn how to behave at every ceremony - including the rapes, and the childbirths.

2. Those are pretty fancy coffins, but for all that they are indeed slaves, the spin they make to make this all "right with the Lord" is probably something like they are precious vessels, etc.

3. Haven't been to a graveside service, so I have no idea. But it made for a pretty visual.

4. Bussing would be right - they do bus them to other placess.

[Umbelina]

I still hit the stumbling block from that director saying that Aunt Lydia loves the girls more than her own life.

Maybe in THIS episode that's what the director was told.  I think there is a massive disconnect between episodes.

Yes, they could have practiced, and probably did.  Still?  It doesn't make sense with the story, anymore than it makes sense that Fred was standing right next to the bomb and was barely injured. 

[AngelaHunter]

On 8/26/2018 at 10:04 PM, Umbelina said:

Aunt Lydia loves her girls more than her own life?  Uh....hello!

"I love you, therefore I demean, degrade, humiliate, torture and brutalize you" because nothing says "I love you" like an amputated body part.

[Mama No Life]

On 5/30/2018 at 5:26 AM, QQQQ said:

I need less whispering on this show, as I'm only catching every 3rd word.

 

Please excuse me while I go yell at some kids to get off my lawn. 

Closed captioning is my best friend whippersnapper.