S02.E08: Chapter 16

[Bort]

Quote

The path forward is revealed.

[showme]

What does it even mean?

This is a very weird show.

[AnimeMania]

Seems like Lenny and Amy are becoming good friends.

Did they put Ptonomy into the brain of the guy with a basket for a head.

Is the guy with a basket for a head different from the monk that jumped off the roof? At one point they showed the guy with a neck brace under the basket.

Or did the monk download his brain into the guy with a basket for a head. 

[Frost]

The cinematography on this show is amazing.  I hope someone who votes for the Emmys is watching!

It cracked me up when Lenny took the time to put on her helmet when she was escaping.  Safety first!

I hope Oliver is strong enough to subvert Farouk's control of Melanie.  She was such a strong, interesting character last season.  I want her to throw off her despair and have some agency again.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Frost
italics

[AimingforYoko]

6 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Did they put Ptonomy into the brain of the guy with a basket for a head.

Is the guy with a basket for a head different from the monk that jumped off the roof?

1. Yes. Fukiyama, The Vermillion and the Mainframe all work together. Ptonomy saw when Brubaker recruited Fukiyama to Section 3.
2. Yes, Fukiyama (along with The Vermilion and The Mainframe) runs Section 3. The monk was the one spreading the infection. He jumped off the roof rather than tell David where Farouk's body was.

[Silenus]

It was interesting to see a modern application of the shadows in Plato's Allegory of the Cave.   They should really show that sequence in high schools.  Also glad that Lenny is finally not a prisoner somewhere, she's been locked up in one way or another this entire season.  I noticed they mentioned the professor, I wonder if he'll ever make an appearance on this show and who they'll cast for the role.

[showme]

This show is becoming too pretentious and tedious for its own good.

[patty1h]

3 hours ago, showme said:

This show is becoming too pretentious and tedious for its own good.

Ooof!  I mean, who thinks that watching Farouk and Oliver being pulled in a rickshaw and Syd and David walking for long minutes is riveting TV?  I don't care that the director tried to make it artsy with the moving boxes around the scenes.  It just seems like filler to stretch the "story" into an hour.  I'm losing interest in David even finding Farouk's goddamn body!

[isalicat]

Funny - I loved watching Farouk and Oliver being pulled and Syd and David walking - it was such gorgeous cinematography and I remarked out loud that it was such a good use of a really novel form of split screen. This show is so beautiful to look at that a lot of the time I really don't care what is supposed to be "going on".

[kieyra]

I still like the show, and this episode's "Don Draper on Delusions" lesson was a point well made. But yeah, I FF through about fifty percent of the scenes in the back half of this season. (The first half was far more compelling.)

It seems that Farouk is Noah Hawley's new muse, and I miss the rest of the cast, who barely get any screen time. 

I also remain annoyed at having to read half his dialogue. Pick a language, brah.

[scrb]

There's not much of a story here.  First season kind of interesting about David's lifelong struggle against the Shadow King.

So second season, they draw it out about putting away the same nemesis.  What exactly is at stake here?  Stop Farouk or he becomes too powerful and takes over the world?  

What exactly is this world?  Some mish mash of 60s design motifs with some retro futurist items which are some production designer's nightmare.  Sometimes it seems like there's just enough plot to go from one trippy set piece to another.  Maybe Hawley got more carried away storyboarding these unique-looking scenes but wasn't as inspired with the story he was trying to tell.

There are a lot of visual oddities here -- mustachioed women, Eurotrash dandy, funky machines with analog switches and 21st century lighting.  But maybe there isn't much here beyond the quirky visual style.

Then the interspersed didactic narration.  OK, people, today are too preoccupied with smart phones and that makes them narcissistic, indifferent to other people's feelings?  Yet the example they showed was teen girls chatting and being mean to each other.

Um, mean girls existed long before the iPhone.

And WTF does 21st century messaging have to do with this story set in who knows when?  Do the characters in Legion live in a delusional life like those in Plato's cave?  Or  are they narcissists and insensitive to each other?

Why did they choose to insert this interlude?  Hawley doesn't care about abruptly taking the audience out of the story, what there is of it.  There's no momentum towards some kind of climax, like there was in some other show, like the second season of Fargo.

Does Hawley really think this story is more engaging than Fargo?  Or that the characters here connect with the audience more?

[Frost]

7 hours ago, scrb said:

There's not much of a story here.  First season kind of interesting about David's lifelong struggle against the Shadow King.

The first season I was engrossed in David's story and since his POV was so screwed up the 'trippy' show structure made sense.  This season the plot does seem more 'linear' - stop Farouk - and the show seems to be throwing in the trippy stuff because it's cool.  I'm enjoying it for the most part but it's not as compelling.

[Bruinsfan]

The surreal visuals and tone worked well when it was David's mindscape or the Astral Plane. Less so when it's supposed to be an actual real desert where Farouk somehow found a rickshaw, Syd inexplicably figured out exactly where David teleported to and arranged a parachute drop, and space and time are somehow warped for no discernible reason. Not to mention Amy and Ben living under guard in another desert with that nonsensical submarine truck and underground bunker.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

1 hour ago, Bruinsfan said:

Syd inexplicably figured out exactly where David teleported to and arranged a parachute drop,

I guess her compass necklace really works.  She should have brought a sunhat and some water, though.

[Terrafamilia]

D'oh, the Mi-Go monks finally tripped an association in my brain now that Ptonomy is a metaphorical brain in a jar. Meet the other Mi-Go.

[Bruinsfan]

On 5/25/2018 at 5:27 PM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I guess her compass necklace really works.  She should have brought a sunhat and some water, though.

I'm wondering how exactly that works when your reference point is thousands of miles away in a region where geography apparently twists around on itself. Do you just hop in a private plane, tell the pilot "thataway!"  and hope you don't have to cross restricted airspace or run out of fuel?

[superloislane]

I'm starting to think that Noah Hawley really liked the praise he received for the surreal and trippy aspects of the first season and thought that was the only reason it was good so doubled down on that in the second season. There are just too many things here that make me think they're just taking the piss out of the audience.

I am glad they're FINALLY getting to the actual finding of the body. 

Why has this show completely ignored 3/4 of its cast for half the season? I forgot Melanie was even a character! Not to mention Cary and Kerry who seemed to have a story about the twist in their mutation at the start of the season and Kerry was now the one on the outside, but that has been forgotten entirely. I guess they're fine now? Do these actors still get paid regular money?

I thought we were done with the Jon Hamm narration but I guess not. Whenever a tv show/movie tries to talk about people glued to phones and isn't it oh so bad and narcissistic, I immediately think they're pretentious. And you just know the person who wrote it liked a funny meme on Facebook right after they wrote it.

I did find it interesting that Syd and Stick Guy (Clark?) were talking about David being delusional and unwell. Are we supposed to think that David really is mentally ill like the comics with different personalities? How the hell did Syd find David in that desert? Is that really her? I'm starting to think that everything is not as it seems - maybe everything is in David's head or something? That would make the constant lectures about delusions in this series actually relevant.

[justmehere]

5 hours ago, superloislane said:

Why has this show completely ignored 3/4 of its cast for half the season? I forgot Melanie was even a character! Not to mention Cary and Kerry who seemed to have a story about the twist in their mutation at the start of the season and Kerry was now the one on the outside, but that has been forgotten entirely. I guess they're fine now? Do these actors still get paid regular money?

 

I did find it interesting that Syd and Stick Guy (Clark?) were talking about David being delusional and unwell. Are we supposed to think that David really is mentally ill like the comics with different personalities? How the hell did Syd find David in that desert? Is that really her? I'm starting to think that everything is not as it seems - maybe everything is in David's head or something? That would make the constant lectures about delusions in this series actually relevant.

 

The absence of most of the cast has been annoying. The episode with all the alternate Davids was great, but I don't understand sidelining everyone else for the rest. If someone had another job, sure, but it's been pretty much all of them.

I'm hoping there's some revelation to pull it all together.

On 5/25/2018 at 5:58 AM, Frost said:

The first season I was engrossed in David's story and since his POV was so screwed up the 'trippy' show structure made sense.  This season the plot does seem more 'linear' - stop Farouk - and the show seems to be throwing in the trippy stuff because it's cool.  I'm enjoying it for the most part but it's not as compelling.

I agree. Except even the "stop Farouk" theme seems to have gotten little actual attention.

[tennisgurl]

I still love this show and its trippy retro nature, but I agree that the show is going too hard on the weirdness now. And there is WAY too much Farouk this season. He works fine as a villain and the actor is good, but I wish we had more of the supporting cast, who have a lot going on and who I like to see more of 

I am really loving getting more Lenny herself in the last few episodes, and the weird stuff between her and Amy. 

For me, I dont really mind that the plot is slow and its focused more in the style and just coming up with new, creative ideas. I would like it if they focused more on character, but the weird non plot works for me. I never really watched this show for the plot, I watched for the characters, the reto funky aesthetic, the trippy and oddball use of superpowers, and its love of exploring philosophical concepts and the strangeness of humanity. So its still something I am enjoying. 

Although, the idea that the IPHONE was this huge moment that invented mean girls. Mean girls have existed since the first cave girls realized that another cave girls cave drawings looked stupid. Hell, the movie Mean Girls came out before the IPHONE! 

[ruby24]

I can't stand this. I think I'm going to quit after this season. I was intrigued in the first season and found it trippy but headed somewhere. Now? I feel like it has devolved into utter nonsense. None of it means anything and there's really nothing to grab onto in terms of story or characters. 

I think what little there is depends on getting you really invested in David and Sydney's "love story" but I don't see an ounce of chemistry between them whatsoever. And it just feels like she's a devoted worshiper of him, but for what reason? He's a complete cypher. There's no character there.

I'm beyond frustrated. I'm going to finish the season, but then I'm probably out.

[FiveByFive]

5 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I still love this show and its trippy retro nature, but I agree that the show is going too hard on the weirdness now. And there is WAY too much Farouk this season. He works fine as a villain and the actor is good, but I wish we had more of the supporting cast, who have a lot going on and who I like to see more of 

I was a huge champion of this show but it's getting too weird for me.

I guess the issue should be more clear that there are two and a half things happening here. You have a group of people trying to stop the Shadow King from getting his body back. On the other hand you future Syd working against David to stop him from stopping the Shadow King because she believes that the Shadow King is the only one who can stop David from destroying humanity. 

You could have easily have let the rest of the cast in on this so they could have been better utilized. 

Also I was really peeved that Ptonomy "died" was placed into a machine and no one seemed to care. 

[AngelKitty]

After reading a bit about Plato's Allegory of the Cave, I've decided that this is taking place mostly in David's brain. And I am simply not going to try to figure anything out and just sit back and enjoy the endless walking in the desert, the cafeteria with a lazy river moving an endless supply of food, and the rooftop surrounded by huge hand balloons? Whaat? Exactly.

[AKA...CJ86]

Well, totally forgot about Melanie until the very end of the episode.  I thought it would be down to Melanie or Clark as to who may betray David and the others... looks like I betted wrong and it was Melanie.  At least it is something for Melanie to do...

I loved the girl talk with Syd and Clark.  This is where I pegged Clark maybe planting the seeds of betrayal...

That's all I got right now. I'm still on board this season even if some elements, etc., have become annoying.  I'm just a little exhausted of Farouk looking for body... David looking for Farouk... with a dose of trippy visuals...

I'm still fascinated by the Vermillion.  

Totally sucks apparently not a single characters notices/minds/cares Ptonomy is now part of Fukiyama's mainframe... although I did love the opening.

I'm expecting good things with Lenny on the loose in the coming episodes... 

[thuganomics85]

While getting ready for tonight's episode, it suddenly hit me that I didn't even post about this one.  What's weird is that it is not like I'm getting bored or turning against it, as I still enjoys a lot of aspects about it, but it really seems to be lacking the "Holy shit!" big moments that had me talking last season.  I don't mind slow builds, but this just seems to be quieter on some levels, despite the trippiness of it all.  I also think it is suffering from a lack of Lenny, because while I think the entire cast is generally great, Aubrey Plaza just brought it to another level.  And there also seems to be a surprisingly small amount Jemaine Clement, despite being a regular this season.

I am curious to see where it all goes though.  And if Narrator Jon Hamm will actually show up in person eventually!

[zobot81]

On 5/28/2018 at 9:09 AM, AngelKitty said:

After reading a bit about Plato's Allegory of the Cave, I've decided that this is taking place mostly in David's brain. And I am simply not going to try to figure anything out and just sit back and enjoy the endless walking in the desert, the cafeteria with a lazy river moving an endless supply of food, and the rooftop surrounded by huge hand balloons? Whaat? Exactly.

I agree. Hence, there's almost nothing that the creators can do from a story-telling perspective to make the plot more grounded.  David is an alpha level psychic mutant (well, almost...whatever, he's extremely powerful).  What happens inside of such a mind seems almost incomprehensible. I'm not saying that we shouldn't question the creators' decision to spend so much time there, but I am willing to concede that the depicted experience is just about as bananas as it ought to be.

I want out soon, though. I want out of David's mental hell-scape.  It's awful in there.