Season 2 Talk

[Lady Calypso]

It's funny that the moment Clay actually decides to be a decent, selfless guy and try to help Alex with figuring out the tapes, he gets distracted by the chalk and runs off. Man, that Clay! Such a swell guy! 

It was nice to get more Ryan, surprisingly. He's the one member of the ensemble who hasn't gotten as much development as he could, so I did like this being his episode, so to speak. I also liked seeing his flashbacks with Hannah. I never knew why they got along, but at least here, I could start to understand it. Also, the revenge on Ryan by Cyrus/Tyler? I felt like Marcus deserved it and much more last episode. Here, I actually felt bad for Ryan. It's not like Ryan's a standup guy, but they got me to kind of feel for him here. Though, it was nice for Tony and Caleb to come save him from the humiliation.

It was nice to see Hannah's dad Andy show up to the trial. I can see the tension between him and Olivia. I will say that Olivia's new friend, Jackie, rubs me the wrong way. I'm not sure whether it's because I'm looking for her to do something wrong because I'm paranoid, or if she is going to do something later on.

I liked the Tony/Justin scenes a lot. It was good to see both boys talk about their troubles. I also enjoyed seeing more Sheri. 

New baseball player, Monty, is suspicious to me. I don't know what his deal is, but they keep showcasing him, as if he's going to be important eventually. 

Seriously, I'm not sure what they're going to do with Chloe. I'm not sure whether she's going to be complicit with Bryce's actions once she finds out about him raping girls, or if she'll be pivotal to taking him down. I also suspect that she could be the one sending everyone those threats. 

What I do like is that, since Porter actually making that house call to the Walkers, Bryce's mother seems to be knowledgeable and, more to the point, not acting like a shitty parent by pretending that it's not happening. She questioned Bryce in a previous episode, and then confronted Chloe here. I'm not sure how much she'll do if she gets proof, if she even does anything, but the fact that she's not completely complicit in his behaviour like Bryce's father is is nice.

Speaking of Porter, I'm not sure if I like his methods or I find him to be going about it the wrong way. I do appreciate him trying, but yeah, his arrest at the end didn't surprise me.

I like a lot of the friendships portrayed, but I'm hoping for more female friendships. I feel like they've been seriously lacking. Which is why the scenes between Jessica and the new girl character (Nina?) was nice.

[Lady Calypso]

Well, that was an episode.

This episode was really great. Since Zach is one of my favourites, I liked learning more about him and Hannah. I actually really loved their flashbacks together. You see, I get that we're supposed to like Clay and Hannah or whatever, but Hannah/Zach is the couple that could have been. It was kind of adorable to see Zach nervous. This episode cemented that Zach truly is a good guy who has just made bad choices. I was surprised at the revelation of him and Hannah as well, as last season seemed to indicate that nothing happened between the two. But this episode did a nice job explaining how, and why Hannah felt the need to include him in her tapes, but leave out the relationship part.

I feel like, with Clay, he holds Hannah on this pedestal, imagining what could have been and just seeing Hannah as a "perfect" embodiment of what he pictured her to be. It seems to be more fantasy for him. But with Zach, at least this episode convinced me that he genuinely cared about her, but it wasn't quite enough to drop everything in his life for her, to disappoint his mother by not being perfect, or dropping his athletic popularity. Which is a real shame, because in another world, he could have been with Hannah, if he was strong enough.

Clay's just a straight up asshole. I hope we're not supposed to like him, because he really is becoming the worst culprit here. His obsession with Hannah is keeping him from seeing straight. I think, if Hannah had seen this side to Clay, she might not have included in Clay's tape how he didn't deserve to be there. He's acting like an obsessive jealous ex here, and it's not a good look on him. Clay, you think you deserved Hannah any more than Zach? At this point, I'm starting to really not give a shit that he's acting out because of his grief. He's acting like Hannah's the worst person ever for not sharing everything with him and choosing not to be with him but with other guys. Clay is really displaying Nice Guy qualities, and I don't like it.

Also, if Justin, of all people, is telling you that you're a dumbass, then you better listen. Because it's Justin, who started the slut rumours in the first place and is a pretty big damn hypocrite, but also not wrong.

I'm starting to get some really bad feelings about Tyler's new friend. I probably should have figured it out earlier.

[memememe76]

I really liked the episode, even though there is no way Hannah would not have mentioned it in her tapes. One of the show's biggest strength is how the characters have meaningful scenes with other characters, big or small. 

[memememe76]

Re Why did Nina burn the pictures, she represents the victim who refuses to share her trauma publicly. It is very sad. That said, the Polaroid made up so much of the marketing but in the scheme of things, it made little impact on the show.

[Lady Calypso]

Jessica was not having a good day, was she? I understand her being upset at Alex, just like I can see that Alex made a mistake but didn't mean anything by it. He clearly has a lot of pent up anger and has been dealing with it, as Jessica has in her own way. So it was interesting to see both characters struggling. Besides being best friends, they've also been dealing with similar memory loss issues and different types of trauma. It's interesting to see both characters dealing with similar issues but for different reasons.

That scene in the arcade was really, really good. Both Miles and Alisha did a great job in that scene.

I can see why Nina's a good mentor for Jessica, but also why Nina hadn't told her boyfriend about her own rape. It was clear that she didn't want to tell her boyfriend, especially five months into the relationship. It's something that she didn't feel like she wanted to tell at that point. 

The Jeff flashbacks here made me realize that I miss Jeff. He was truly a really great guy. He made questionable decisions himself, but he had a good heart. 

Yeah, not feeling bad for Marcus in getting played by Bryce. I don't know what he really expected with doing Bryce that favor, but it was obvious that Bryce would never reciprocate. 

Yep, I'm getting a feeling on where the Tyler/Cyrus stuff is going. Cyrus has been enabling Tyler more than helping him. Also, the Chloe/Bryce scene was interesting. I'm now starting to lean toward her being Bryce's liability, rather than his asset. She didn't seem impressed with him wanting to have sex during the movie, but she seemed to be struggling with telling him no. 

I really wish I felt for Clay more, but I think I'm sick and tired of him. He's jealous about everything, it seems. And now he posted Hannah's tapes for everyone to hear. That...was a mistake on his end. People are going to be pissed when they find out it was him, and I won't blame them. 

[memememe76]

Derek Luke was amazing. Award calibre. 

[mledawn]

Three episodes in and this season isn't even close to touching the quality of last's. This is moving agonisingly slowly.

[Lady Calypso]

So, the tape aftermath exploded. I will say, as much as it screwed up a lot, I couldn't be more satisfied at Bryce's panic when he realized the tapes were out, including his confession. At the very least, it scared him enough, knowing that everyone knew he confessed that. Yep, him calling for his daddy was predictable, but it was nice to see him panic and realize how screwed he was, even for a minute. Even him lashing out at people was not as frustrating, because it was clear he was lashing out because he was panicked. He was verbally letting out his fear, even more obviously this episode, to other people in order for him to feel better.

What surprised me completely was the beginning, when Chloe was in the stall and got out a Sharpie, and then Jessica showed up after her. I completely thought that Chloe was going to go into superdenial by writing some awful things about Jessica. Her crossing out those nasty things, however? That was good.

It seems like the judge really favours the defense attorney. I've noticed in almost single episode, during the courtroom scenes, the judge has, more often than not, overruled Dennis' objections and sustained the defense attorney's.

I love Zach walking out with his sister during the school event. I will say that, despite Marcus being given an ultimatum in order to go through with the truth, he finally did stand against Bryce.

Tyler is certainly becoming a bit more disturbing. Him shooting the bird and then looking at it afterward gave me chills.

The Justin/Alex scenes were good because it led to them ripping on Clay for a bit. And, of course, Clay thinks that he should dictate everything and that he's the only one trying to get justice for Hannah without realizing how it affects other people.

That being said, as much as I think that Justin needed to leave the Jensen home as he can't stay there forever, I also don't think going home to his mother is going to be a permanent thing. 

The Olivia/Jessica scene was very well done.

[Hazel55]

I missed these characters. 

Clay, oh Clay. As much as I like Skye (she seems like a sweet girl), getting romantically involved and serving as the sole means of support for a clinically depressed girl is the last thing you need right now. Seriously, the "you must call me whenever you're thinking about cutting yourself" thing stuck me as dangerously near to codependency. Worse, it seemed as though Skye was not talking to/ dealing with her issues with anyone other than Clay. And with Clay now having halucinatory visions of his last clinically depressed crush (does anyone else detect a pattern here?), the whole situation strikes me as extremely combustable. Skye and Clay both need to seek individual counseling and take at least several months to heal before they can any kind of healthy romantic relationship with each other. (Jesus, I sound like an after school special. But this relationship so clearly has a "Danger: Unhealthy!" sign flashing above it in neon lights, I can't really pass it over without comment.) 

Even when he's standing up for Hannah and being decent, Tyler is still a little weird. Tyler, you got mad at Hannah for sexting another dude? Because, according to you, said dude "didn't really know or deserve her?" It's not your place, dude. You don't own her, she's not your girlfriend, you have no right to be so possessive with her. Also, his taking pictures of Alex while the latter was in a coma? Totally creepy. I mean, WTF, Tyler?

Zach remains sweet and adorable, and I foresee a reckoning between him and Bryce happening sometime this season. 

Mr. Porter is... odd. Dude, you didn't report crucial information about the rape of a student, and now you're trying to "make up for it" by physically attacking another student? But seriously, I'm sure we'd all love to beat up Bryce, but to do that as a school guidance counselor is... both bizarre and idiotic. There are a hundred thousand different ways Mr. Porter could attempt to atone for his mistakes, including admitting his mistakes and getting involved in the lawsuit. 

So now Tony has a secret? Hmmm. Not sure I feel about that. Last year he often ended up serving his narrative function (keeper of the tapes) rather than being developed as a fully realized character, and it seems that this season, they might be going that route again.  

Overall, a highly flawed but engaging episode. I rather strongly dislike using the testimonies as a framing device; they are just trying too hard to emulate the first season, and it just doesn't work her. Still, I think I'm in for the season. This show is addictive. 

Edited May 20, 2018 by Hazel55

[HollyG]

Please tell me I'm not the only one worried about Tyler. 

[BigDfromLA]

Who was in the picture that Clay had? I couldn't see it clearly enough to tell what/who it was.

Line of the episode:

Clay to Tony: You did nothing wrong.

Tony to Clay: You don't know everything I did, Clay.

Porter was such a deer-in-the-headlights, no clue, milquetoast, incompetent dud in season one.. Shocked to see him show emotion and go after Bryce. He's losing it.

Edited May 20, 2018 by BigDfromLA

[Asha124]

5 hours ago, memememe76 said:

Re Why did Nina burn the pictures, she represents the victim who refuses to share her trauma publicly. It is very sad. That said, the Polaroid made up so much of the marketing but in the scheme of things, it made little impact on the show.

I would understand if she destroyed pictures featuring her or her friends but she had no right to burn all of them.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

4 hours ago, Hazel55 said:

Clay, oh Clay. As much as I like Skye (she seems like a sweet girl), getting romantically involved and serving as the sole means of support for a clinically depressed girl is the last thing you need right now. Seriously, the "you must call me whenever you're thinking about cutting yourself" thing stuck me as dangerously near to codependency. Worse, it seemed as though Skye was not talking to/ dealing with her issues with anyone other than Clay. And with Clay now having halucinatory visions of his last clinically depressed crush (does anyone else detect a pattern here?), the whole situation strikes me as extremely combustable. Skye and Clay both need to seek individual counseling and take at least several months to heal before they can any kind of healthy romantic relationship with each other. (Jesus, I sound like an after school special. But this relationship so clearly has a "Danger: Unhealthy!" sign flashing above it in neon lights, I can't really pass it over without comment.) 

I feel like his heart was in the right place at the end of last season when he made a decision to strike up his friendship with Skye again, but seeing what a mess they both are makes it seem like they should have just stayed friends instead of dating. Even before you take into account that they're dating, they each need counseling. But when you throw their romantic entanglement into the mix and you see that Clay is using Skye as some kind of substitute for Hannah (a damaged girl who needs saving), and that neither of them seems to have any other kind of real emotional support system, it makes their relationship seem like a terrible idea. Like no one could realistically believe that this will end with a happily ever after.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

14 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I said last season that they'd need to do a whole hell of a lot to even have me remotely feel bad for Courtney, as they did a shit job at making her sympathetic, even with her being closeted. I will say, I think they have been succeeding in this episode alone, and it seems like they'll continue. I did feel bad for Courtney. She was basically forced to come out in order to do the right thing, and it's not even a guarantee that it'll help Hannah and her legacy.

Same here. I found her so repugnant last season but she earned a lot of sympathy from me after that scene in court. I'm glad that her dads were so supportive afterward, even if their movie selection conversation in front of her was totally awkward.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

11 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I really felt for Alex, as well as his parents. But now Alex has the tapes, so either it'll help him, or make things worse.

I'm afraid that Alex finally getting to listen to the tapes again is going to be a case of "be careful what you wish for." Hearing everything that Hannah said might damage even more, even in the midst of recovering from just knowing that she's died and recuperating from the gunshot wound.

[Lady Calypso]

I can't deny that they gave Derek Luke some great material to work with, and he delivered. The Porter scenes in the courtroom were top notch. As an adult, I think he has the most to lose with this trial stuff and with his name being on the tapes, and it showed how that weighed on him throughout the episode. He felt responsible for being the adult and not seeing the signs, just like Olivia is working through that realization as well. But more to the point, he was recognizing how the school didn't do anything. His moment of apology toward the Baker family was strong. 

So, Chloe is completely turned off of Bryce now and I gotta say, I completely expected it to go the other way. Even though she's still trying to process and figure out what she wants to do, and as much as she is torn by her feelings for Bryce with doing the right thing, it's clear that she is, at least, considering dumping Bryce, although I suspect that he'll use what information he has against her. For example, I suspect if she tried to testify against him, Bryce would use the movie sex scene from the previous episode against her. She never said no, she gave consent despite the fact that her body language was screaming that she didn't want it, etc. Congrats show; I went from disliking Chloe due to my suspicion on whose side she'd choose when this all came out, to feeling sympathy for her and hoping that she does get away from the creepy controlling rapist. 

I really liked Jessica's scene with her dad. Her realization that she's not ready to date yet and that light hearted moment was great to see. 

So, Clay jumps in with Tyler and Cyrus, only to figure out The Clubhouse. Also, Justin finally gets away from his household, hopefully for good. I also hope that his mother doesn't stay with her meth drug dealer. I think she's a complete coward, but I fully believe her and Justin when they've talked about Seth killing them. I wonder if this season's going to end with Justin discovering that his mother did, indeed, die because she didn't get away. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

13 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I can't say that they really made me feel for Marcus. The flashbacks were really, really gross, especially with Marcus' testimony overlaying it. Also, he definitely made things worse by naming Bryce Walker as the guy Hannah was "interested" in. I'm hoping this turns the situation into a good one down the road, even if it clearly isn't for the short term.

So I can't say that I wasn't pleased with Tyler and Cyrus' mini revenge on Marcus with the pink paint. It wasn't enough, but it was a small, satisfying moment.

For me, the difference between Courtney and Marcus is that Courtney was terrified about how everyone would react if she revealed her sexuality, which is understandable (note: I am NOT excusing the way she threw Hannah under the bus to save herself last season) whereas Marcus has a shitty attitude towards females. He thought it was perfectly okay to make a bet with Bryce about how far he could get with Hannah which is really gross and misogynistic. He thought it was okay to reach between her legs in a public place on a first date. He said, "Nothing anyone did to [Hannah] was any different than what happens to every girl at every high school. She just wanted attention."

Again, I am not defending Courtney lying or wanting to paint Hannah as "jealous and needy and emotionally unstable" just to keep her secret. I just think that given their overall situations, Courtney was a girl who was scared to come out while Marcus is an entitled asshole who has no respect for women.

Edited May 20, 2018 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Lady Calypso]

Yes! Some more backstory on Tony, Tony/Ryan, and Tony/Hannah! Christian Navarro still very much looks his age, but I will say there were moments where he did look like a teenager when asking out Ryan. I like diving into Tony's anger issues and how he's been trying to make up for it. I liked his scene with the other witness of the episode.

Wow, Sheri treading into dangerous territory with the Clubhouse. I legit got terrified for her in her scene in the Clubhouse with Bryce and the other two jocks. But thank god she stood up to Clay about the photos. I mean, sure, I can see why Clay would automatically assume and make those comments, but I'm glad Sheri got to put it into perspective, as a female, for Clay. I think it helped put things in perspective with the earlier scene of Sheri and Bryce and the other boys in the Clubhouse. The environment was chilling to begin with, so I can see why it might seem one way. 

Wow, Zach actually stood up to Bryce. That was surprising. Also, why didn't I expect that it was Zach who sent Clay those three polaroids? In hindsight, it's really really obvious that it had to have been Zach. He's been silently rebelling for a couple of weeks. Also, I was surprised to find out that Justin wasn't actually part of the Clubhouse because it seems like it was just the baseball players, and Justin didn't play baseball.

The Jessica/Nina stuff was hard to watch, because I like the friendship between the two. I can't disagree with Jessica on Nina maybe not being fully over her rape if she still can't talk about it with her boyfriend, but Jessica also has to realize that Nina has to go at her own pace so if she's not ready and Jessica is ready to talk about it, then she has to respect that. Just like Nina needs to realize that she's deflecting from her own pain and trauma and she's taking it out on Jessica.

The Porter/Justin scenes were well done. They've done a good job with trying to redeem Justin. He still has a long way to go and he has a whole lot to make up for, but the fact that he's gone through a lot of shit to start to change is important to recognize. I like that Porter's restrictions from the principal made him reach out to Justin instead. 

So, Tyler's ruined his chance with Mackenzie. It was nice to see Tyler's parents finally finding out about his actions and punishing him, though. 

The twist of Bryce having raped Chloe was completely shocking to me. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Zach's mom slut shaming Hannah made me roll my eyes. So Hannah kissed Justin once, kissed Alex once, kissed Jessica once, kissed Courtney once, went on one failed date with Marcus, and drunkenly kissed Clay at a party. She had sex with none of them but somehow this counts as being involved with half the people in her class.

I get that Tony wanted to let Justin go outside, but why did they have to walk around the block. Why didn't they just sit in Clay's backyard since his parents were both at work? Why risk being seen? Heh, I did love them playing cards and betting with the little plastic game pieces. I'm assuming they're from some nerdy game in Clay's room that neither Justin nor Tony know how to play.

Clay's continuing jealousy annoys me. Besides, as Hannah pointed out, we don't choose who we fall for.

Poor Olivia. Five months after Hannah died and Andy has already moved on to a new girlfriend with a little girl. New insta-family! I love that she let Ryan see her crime board though.

One thing I will say in Chloe's defense is that getting bruises on the upper arm like that is pretty common for cheerleading and gymnastics so I don't think she was necessarily lying about that (although it's possible that Bryce gave her some of those bruises when he grabbed her in the previous episode and cheerleading is a conveniently true excuse). My sister was a gymnast and a cheerleader and she often had bruises in weird places. The same is true of dance and some other performance arts (aerial silks, hula hooping, poi, lyra, etc). I still don't trust her, but I don't think that this was a lie. And from what we've seen of her with Bryce so far, he hasn't been abusive towards her so it's possible that he's one of those guys who puts on a nice face and then people like his past girlfriends are shocked when he's accused of being a rapist.

I'm not sure what her deal is with Jessica though. The less skeptical side of me wants to believe that Chloe is just one of those people who truly takes her role as captain of the team seriously and is trying to create a good team atmosphere. One girl on my dance team would make us little Christmas tree ornaments every year (and she wasn't even the captain). Some people are just like that, always trying to foster a feeling of family. Another part of me thinks that she is one of those girls who makes a huge effort not to be jealous about any girls her boyfriend has been involved with (and I'm using "involved with" very loosely here) because she prides herself on not being that bitchy girlfriend. But the cynical part of me thinks that Chloe knows the truth and is part of Bryce's gaslighting scheme. I'm still waiting for her to get one of the other girls to drop Jessica during a stunt.

13 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

New baseball player, Monty, is suspicious to me.

FYI - Monty isn't new. He was around in S1. He and Alex got into a fight in the episode about Hannah's Valentine's Day date with Marcus. Scott Reed is the new jock.

[Lady Calypso]

Clay was just getting a dose of reality consistently this episode. Jessica got to tell him off about him dictating whether or not rape victims should come out, which was satisfying. Clay hasn't been able to get it through his thick Hannah-filled skull that there's more than one victim, and that these women's lives are ruined forever. Then, his delusion with Hannah has her telling him the truth about his need to see the worst in her.

I will say, as much as I loathe Bryce, I think the actor is doing a phenomenal job at portraying Bryce as a straight up rapist. I also loathe his father, who is a clear enabler and probably wouldn't care if he had proof that his son raped girls, unless it directly affected his reputation.

I think they hinted at more with Bryce and Hannah last season, during Bryce's big episode, so I wasn't surprised at some of the development here. I don't buy all of it as true, anyway, and I'm glad they actually went the twist route at the end, with what really happened. 

Wow, Zach quit the team because his coach was trying to pressure him into supporting Bryce. Good on Zach for finally finding his voice. Also good on Chloe for figuring things out, and deciding to take action. I figured she did the pictures stuff, so I'm glad Jess found out and also understood. However, it sucks that Chloe was so afraid to go against him that she lied. I figured that there had to be something to halt the trial for another couple of episodes, but it sucks that it went this way.

The big Alex revelation, I did not see coming, but I'm glad they included it. It actually connects the dots. 

That ending was intense. Finally, someone sees Clay losing it, at least, even if it's just Justin. The final few episodes really are ramping up.

[Lady Calypso]

23 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

FYI - Monty isn't new. He was around in S1. He and Alex got into a fight in the episode about Hannah's Valentine's Day date with Marcus. Scott Reed is the new jock.

Ah, gotcha. I don't know why I thought Monty was new; I guess I forgot most of season 1 and, thus, Monty in general.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Clay's out of control jealousy is making me so angry. YOU DON'T OWN HANNAH. I mean seriously, for fuck's sake. Just because you liked her doesn't mean that she's not allowed to do whatever the fuck she wants. You were not her boyfriend. You don't get to act like she betrayed you or cheated on you.

Instead of being happy that Hannah had one summer of being in a consensual relationship that made her happy, Clay decides that because she had the fucking audacity to take control of her sexuality and decide to have sex with someone, he is no longer interested in getting justice for her.

Suddenly Bryce raping her isn't worth fighting for because Clay got his poor little feelings hurt by the knowledge that Hannah wanted to have sex with someone other than him.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

33 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Ah, gotcha. I don't know why I thought Monty was new; I guess I forgot most of season 1 and, thus, Monty in general.

Honestly, Monty isn't that memorable. He's seen hanging around with Bryce and the other jocks but he doesn't have a prominent role. The newer guy Scott kind of looks like him too which doesn't help. Monty's really only memorable because he and Alex fought. Scott's only memorable because Clay asked Tony about him at the beginning of S2 (Tony's amazingly descriptive answer was "The baseball player? He plays baseball and he's friends with Bryce. That's what I know."). Other than that, neither of them have really been in the forefront so I don't blame you for forgetting Monty!

[Lady Calypso]

Who would have thought that Justin and Clay would be friends, and that Justin would be bringing Clay down from his ledge? I think they've handled Justin pretty well this season, considering that he was one of the worst offenders in season 1. It's easy to forget that kids can be assholes and jerks and make the worst decisions, but they also have the opportunity to grow, to change, and to learn from these choices, as long as they want to. Bryce doesn't seem to want to, but Justin does. It was noble of him to stick to his guns, even with the defense attorney hassling him.

Good on Justin and Jessica for going to the police, though. And finally, Clay says the right thing to Jessica, with Alex's help.

I saw the final verdict coming, in all honesty. It's really tough to prove something like that, unfortunately. However, seeing Bryce arrested at the courthouse was satisfying. You could just tell that Alex's dad purposefully did that to make a statement; at least that's what I want to believe. I also like that Justin still went through with the confession, even while knowing that he'd be arrested too.

So, I think they went with Monty harrassing the kids who were going to testify, but someone else stole the polaroids. For a moment, I thought it might have been Jessica herself, when Alex/Clay were at her front door. I guess that's a mystery for the final episode?

Tyler's going deeper and deeper down a rabbit hole and I fear it's way too late for him.

[Racj82]

My god, this show does not need to be 13 hour long episodes. Even getting through this first episode is too much,

[Empress1]

Hannah's dad moving on that fast feels really disrespectful to me. I can understand the marriage not surviving. I think I read somewhere that statistically, many marriages don't survive the loss of a child, and Olivia has really thrown herself into the lawsuit so I could see how that could alienate Andy. They likely have different ideas about moving on. But to move onto a new serious relationship only FIVE months later (and odds are good that the relationship is at least a few months old) is like ... OUCH. Did he meet her at the funeral? If I were the new girlfriend, I'd be giving incredible pause. Actually, knowing myself as well as I do, I would probably straight up ask him if he was trying to use my daughter to replace the one he lost, because that's not fair to the kid.

16 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I like a lot of the friendships portrayed, but I'm hoping for more female friendships. I feel like they've been seriously lacking. Which is why the scenes between Jessica and the new girl character (Nina?) was nice.

I agree. I don't think any of the female characters have close female friends as of now, which is really a shame. One of the things I liked about the movie Lady Bird is that the two boys that the main character dates end up being relatively unimportant, but her relationship with her best friend ends up being really important. I think the female characters could use some good girlfriends without boys gumming up the works. (I don't trust Chloe. I don't necessarily think she'll be harmful to Jessica, but I also don't think she's the kind of friend Jessica needs.)

[Last Time Lord]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The newer guy Scott kind of looks like him too which doesn't help.

I’ve mixed them up so often I’ve been second guessing myself if they’re two different characters or not. 

[Empress1]

Zach and Hannah were SO CUTE. That first time he kisses her and she kind of pauses and he's like " ... Wait, what's happening here?" I howled. It was just SO awkward teenage boy (although that actor the least believable teenager ever; the actor is 28 and it shows).

14 hours ago, memememe76 said:

I really liked the episode, even though there is no way Hannah would not have mentioned it in her tapes. One of the show's biggest strength is how the characters have meaningful scenes with other characters, big or small. 

I agree. She loses her virginity and has a months-long relationship (I don't think they were "official," but that's what it was) with a guy she likes who then blows her off and lets his friends make fun of her, and she says nothing? It seems like exactly the kind of thing she'd mention.

[Whimsy]

16 hours ago, memememe76 said:

I really liked the episode, even though there is no way Hannah would not have mentioned it in her tapes. One of the show's biggest strength is how the characters have meaningful scenes with other characters, big or small. 

 

16 hours ago, memememe76 said:

I really liked the episode, even though there is no way Hannah would not have mentioned it in her tapes. One of the show's biggest strength is how the characters have meaningful scenes with other characters, big or small. 

 

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

Zach and Hannah were SO CUTE. That first time he kisses her and she kind of pauses and he's like " ... Wait, what's happening here?" I howled. It was just SO awkward teenage boy (although that actor the least believable teenager ever; the actor is 28 and it shows).

I agree. She loses her virginity and has a months-long relationship (I don't think they were "official," but that's what it was) with a guy she likes who then blows her off and lets his friends make fun of her, and she says nothing? It seems like exactly the kind of thing she'd mention.

I agree. That would’ve been much more likely to be on the tape. Zach’s complete rejection of letting his friends know he was involved with Hannah would be crushing and more likely the “reason” for her actions. This was the problem with a 2nd season that expands from the source material. They had to come up with stories that completely contradict the 1st season narrative. 

[starri]

Zach seems like a pretty decent guy who was too weak to stand up to his bad friends. 

[TaylorBruh25]

FI-NAL-LY. That big fight scene, I’ve been waiting for someone to take it to Bryce and his boys. Cheered when Tony and Zach came in banging. I’ve been on Clays side most of the series but dude lay off the “this all for Hannah” stuff. Jessica and Chloe were both victims too. Glad the show tries to say “look we have one jock who’s on Clays side so not all high school male athletes are rapists” even though that’s easily countered because this kid obviously knows that Bryce is guilty, and has known. I guess we had Jeff, but you know they killed him off. This show is back to what S1 levels of good were, but doesn’t help those first 4 episodes that dragged. 

[Marley]

This show should’ve stuck with just 1 season because season 2 was a huge bust imo. 

Ghost Hannah was so stupid and the school got more ridiculous each episode.

I won’t be watching season 3 if there is one which I’m assuming there will be going by the ending.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

One of the hilarious moments in this episode was Bryce angrily drinking out of his milk carton. That was like watching someone try to stomp out of a room wearing flip flops. 

I'm still so annoyed with Clay. He thinks Zach didn't deserve her? Well, judging by your behavior, Clay, you didn't either. She didn't owe you her virginity or anything else for that matter.

[mledawn]

This was the best episode so far, imo. As others have said, Clay is starting to become very punchable with his possessive views on Hannah and how she should be. It's so annoying but so teenage boy (or girl). I was very dramatic and "principled" as a teen, and Clay sadly reminds me of me, which is embarrassing.

I was very emotional during the group therapy scenes, I thought they were well done.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Although I know in theory that everyone is judging Hannah for every little thing she did and that girls are always judged for their sexuality, it seems really hypocritical that Clay was insistent that Zach admitting he had sex with Hannah was bad for the trial but somehow he didn't go yell at Ryan for telling testifying that some of Hannah's poems were about Justin. While I totally respect that they were under oath, I also thought it was weird that both Ryan and Zach chose to admit things that NO ONE ELSE KNEW. If they had lied on the stand and said, "No, I don't know who those poems were about," and "Hannah and I were just friends," no one would have challenged that. No one could have proven otherwise. No one would have known they were lying to protect Hannah. Were they that afraid of perjury?

[STFUFrank]

1 hour ago, Marley said:

This show should’ve stuck with just 1 season because season 2 was a huge bust imo. 

Ghost Hannah was so stupid and the school got more ridiculous each episode.

I won’t be watching season 3 if there is one which I’m assuming there will be going by the ending.

I don't see Hannah as being a ghost but as a way of showing that Clay wasn't over her in the slightest and him "talking" to her would be like someone else who's grieving and asking "why" etc. Then upon learning about her and Zach it crushed the ideal he had of her in his mind. He put her up on such a high pedestal that she could do no wrong in his eyes (hence his asshole reaction toward Zach as if Clay was somehow more deserving of Hannah and her virginity). 

[starri]

I swear, I think all of these scenes where Clay sees Hannah just mean he has a brain tumor.

[reggiejax]

15 hours ago, Asha124 said:

I would understand if she destroyed pictures featuring her or her friends but she had no right to burn all of them.

I binged the whole season yesterday, and I admit, I was in and out for some of it, so I must have missed it, but how did she come into possession of the photos? 

[mledawn]

Mr Porter's courtroom scenes were perfect.
Bryce can eat shit but when he said "Jesus, chew your fucking food" to that jackwad teammate, I laughed out loud.

[MissMandy]

31 minutes ago, reggiejax said:

I binged the whole season yesterday, and I admit, I was in and out for some of it, so I must have missed it, but how did she come into possession of the photos? 

Clay had them in the back seat of his car and when he went to his car his back window was broken and the box was gone.

[memememe76]

I agree so much about the lack of female friendships. The writers could have had Courtney tutor Sheri and Jessica, as both had just come back to school after a long hiatus. And they could have helped Courtney find a girlfriend. A female version of Clay and Jeff.

Edited May 21, 2018 by memememe76

[starri]

I'm going to just say that so far, Zach and Sheri have been the heroes of this season.

I still really don't know what Ryan and Tony ever saw in each other.

[Lady Calypso]

I thought the season had some really strong moments, but I wasn't quite sure that season 2 needed to be as long as it was, especially by episode. I also don't think I'm looking forward to a season three, which will have to move on from Hannah for good. If the show gets renewed, they certainly planted some solid ideas, but I think I might skip. 

I'm impressed that they made sure the school shooting actually never happened. It was a clever twist, and probably the best idea. 

Nina having the pictures was a fine twist. Her burning them was just plain annoying. So, she took away everyone else's chances to be able to tell their story. Ok, then. It's one thing to burn her own; it's another to burn everyone else's. 

Tyler looks different with the haircut. Hopefully he can truly get some help.

I'm fully annoyed that there's a triangle with Alex, Jessica, and Justin, and I'm even more pissed off that they had Jessica cheat. She JUST started a relationship again with Alex. They JUST defined it, and she's going to cheat just like that? Not that it was surprising that her and Justin had unresolved issues that made it clear they'd hook up again, but they should have never had that prefaced with Alex/Jessica rekindling theirs. Also, Justin lying about being clean isn't going to go well. Of course that's going to complicate things with Jessica. 

On the other hand, as rushed as Justin's adoption is, I can see why it's happening so fast. But maybe they shouldn't rush into it. They could have left it open ended with the Jensens deciding to take Justin in for good, and if there's a season 3, it could have opened with the news about the adoption, if the show decided to skip ahead past summer, or at least into June or July. However, very happy for Justin, who has been looking for a home and a family that will love him for his entire life. I just think the two weeks that the season took place, plus the month time jump with Justin having been in juvie the entire time, makes it a little too quick to jump from the Jensens not knowing Justin to wanting to adopt him.

So, Chloe's pregnant. What an annoyingly bland and predictable twist. I can't say that I'm excited for it in any way. 

Overall, some stronger stories in season 2 (Alex's story, Jessica's story, Zach, Courtney's redemption episode, the second half in general was so much stronger than the first half), but pretty much what I predicted for the sophomore season. This show has the ability to be a multi-season show, but it hasn't been executed well enough, so I just grow more annoyed. 

[reggiejax]

1 hour ago, MissMandy said:

Clay had them in the back seat of his car and when he went to his car his back window was broken and the box was gone.

OK, I do remember them getting stolen from Clay's car, I guess I was still in the mindset that Monty stole them. It didn't occur to me that Nina broke into Clay's car. I was thinking there was some action I missed. But I guess not. 

Edited May 21, 2018 by reggiejax

[mledawn]

What the everloving fuck. Basically nothing happened to any of the assholes in this show, and Tyler gets raped. I yelled out loud at that scene, it was horrible and unnecessary. Was that an "oh, boys get raped, too"? I don't even understand.

If there's a S3, I'm sure I'll watch it, but it'll probably be a hate watch. 

I feel ill.

I'll work through the fallout of this season by reading others' comments on this board because right now...ugh.

[Hope]

Was it announced that 13RW was already renewed for a third season prior to this second season coming out? Because I feel like an idiot; I fully expected the show to have this season be its last season, and resolve everything. I'm pissed that they left loose endings to resolve in a third season, because I think a third season is unnecessary. 

Tyler looks sickly with a buzzcut. The bathroom scene was horrific.

I expected that one of the two trials (Hannah's parents v. the school and Jessica v. Bryce) would end up with "the good guys" winning, but I guess that would be unrealistic. I really hope that Bryce somehow gets what's coming for him in the third season.

What happened to Marcus? Last thing we heard was that he was suspended when he called out Bryce as a rapist.

Justin is on a dark path, AND Seth knows where he is. Scared for him.

Lastly and most importantly, how old are these kids? I'm very confused because Marcus got into Harvard, and Bryce said he had to repeat junior year. So they for sure are seniors, but the rest of the cast are juniors, right? Hannah was alive sophomore year, then season 1 is fall of junior year, and season 2 is spring of junior year? I'm just trying to sort out the timeline.

Edited May 21, 2018 by Hope

[memememe76]

Ryan mentioned he was taking a gap year and traveling around Europe, so he is graduating. Is Tony really just a junior, really? I think Courtney is also graduating.  

And where was Sheri this episode? She should have been at the dance. TBH, she is the only viable love interest for Clay, but he better start treating her better first. 

[Hope]

That fight scene was epic. Probably one of the most enjoyable scenes in the series so far because the "loners" and "freaks" finally stood up for themselves against the jocks. 

Also, when it's revealed at the end what really happened between Bryce and Hannah - wow, that was pretty chilling. It's interesting that there's this emphasis on telling the truth (parents keep telling their children to tell the truth in court), yet it's been distorted by the case itself - by students lying to protect themselves and by the lawyers trying to characterize Hannah as someone the jury can empathize with. It makes you question the tapes because before, they were the only sources of truth that the audience had. Now, we have different perspectives that complicate the truth and Hannah herself.
 

[Lady Calypso]

37 minutes ago, Hope said:

Lastly and most importantly, how old are these kids? I'm very confused because Marcus got into Harvard, and Bryce said he had to repeat junior year. So they for sure are seniors, but the rest of the cast are juniors, right? Hannah was alive sophomore year, then season 1 is fall of junior year, and season 2 is spring of junior year? I'm just trying to sort out the timeline.

Well, some of them are seniors, while others are juniors. Marcus and Ryan are definitely seniors. They actually made the timeline fairly clear. Season 1 took place at the end of October through to the middle of November. Season 2 has technically only taken place over a span of two weeks, until this episode skipped a month ahead (hence the April 18-20 time period indicated...although they said April 20th was a Saturday when it was actually a Friday last month). Hannah died six months ago, in the middle of October, I believe. I think most of the kids are juniors. The only one I'm unsure about is Bryce. I get that he's transferring, but when he talks about being a junior, he means for the following school year, right? I always get confused with the American high school system because where I live in Ontario, we finished high school in June, but I know most American schools finish, I think, in May? 

[mrsh]

1 hour ago, mledawn said:

What the everloving fuck. Basically nothing happened to any of the assholes in this show, and Tyler gets raped. I yelled out loud at that scene, it was horrible and unnecessary. Was that an "oh, boys get raped, too"? I don't even understand.

If there's a S3, I'm sure I'll watch it, but it'll probably be a hate watch. 

I feel ill.

I'll work through the fallout of this season by reading others' comments on this board because right now...ugh.

I agree with you so much. Watching Tyler get assaulted by that group of assholes left me feeling sick to my stomach. Honestly, U was annoyed all season long by the core group ignoring Tyler and making him seem like a monster. He was definitely wrong for spying on Hannah and taking the photo of her and Courtney but all of then were jerks to her in one way or another and were no better than Tyler. The whole season it hurt me to see him being rejected and abused. Like, did these kids (and adults) learn nothing from what happened with Hannah??? Watching him use his newfound coping skills when confronted with the jocks in the washroom only to be brutally assaulted had me sobbing. I dont know if I will watch season 3, I get its realistic that the jocks and especially Bryce with his money and privilege would walk free but it got too depressing for me.