Social And Race Issues In Black-Ish

[Agfa]

My sisters, brother, and I all have African first names. It makes sense, my dad is West African and my mom is white.

My mom and her siblings are biracial (african dad, french mom), and were born in the 50's-60's. They all have 2 first names, one occidental, one african. Their official first name is the occidental one, but all except my mom prefer to be called by their african first name.

[Taylorh2]

mojito.  Hahahaha. Sorry but I have been a Led Zeppelin fan since I was 16 yrs old.

[BoogieBurns]

Their official first name is the occidental one, but all except my mom prefer to be called by their african first name.

 

My mother's siblings have very standard, old lady names. But all of their middle names are unique and quirky. They all go by their middle names. One goes by the initial of her first name only. I think I'll do the same with my kids, give them a clean slate first name, then a cool middle name and let them figure it out. 

[ridethemaverick]

Since we're discussing names, I just learned that John Cougar Mellencamp named his son Speck Wildhorse. (Why, America?)

Perhaps Jack and Diane were just too pedestrian for him. It makes me wonder if Bow, who probably endured lifelong teasing for her name, wanted to give her kids names that wouldn't make them stand out in the way hers did.

ridethemaverick, I also wanted to clarify that I hope there was no offense taken with the cultural heritage comment I made about names above. It was used specifically to explain how ethnic names that differ from the mainstream (such as names with overseas roots and would also include newer names that reflect cultural heritage like Tyresha and Shenequa) are in a different category from crazy celebrity baby names (see above), which is how Rainbow might get categorized, even if it is one of the more tame ones.

No offense taken at all. I hear it a lot and was commenting on the general idea. I actually think it's a valid one. No worries.

[LJonEarth]

They sort of addressed the natural hair/pressed hair thing. I really like the mention of Bow pressing it until Diane is old enough to learn to care for her natural hair properly.

[ridethemaverick]

I actually didn't care for that so much. I have a natural daughter and I sort of soft press her hair sometimes (picture Rudy Huxtable) with my flat iron but the whole hot comb thing takes about as much time and effort as washing and braiding natural hair does. Maybe more. Diane has a hard press to make her hair completely straight which is perfectly fine if that's the look they want but I thought the excuse they used was sort of a copout. Jmo.

[ribboninthesky1]

I actually didn't care for that so much. I have a natural daughter and I sort of soft press her hair sometimes (picture Rudy Huxtable) with my flat iron but the whole hot comb thing takes about as much time and effort as washing and braiding natural hair does. Maybe more.

 

It does? That's not what I remember from childhood.  It usually took longer to braid my hair than to press with a hot comb.  I could never sit still long enough for braiding, and used to drive my mom crazy. Different strokes, I guess.

 

I figured Diane's hair was pressed, and I like Bow's reasoning.  There's no way Diane could maintain her own hair at her age, so I understand why Bow would keep it pressed.  Plus, it bugged me that Dre's mom was all about her Zulu/Cherokee heritage (of course, she had to throw some "Indian" in the mix), yet still referred to the back of Diane's hair as her "kitchen."   

[Taylorh2]

Hahaha to Diane telling Dre's mother that she was not part Cherokee, and what does the back of Diane's hair being "her kitchen" mean ?

[Empress1]

The hair at the nape of the neck is referred to as "the kitchen" in Black vernacular.

[BoogieBurns]

Pressing may take longer, but it lasts longer. Bow probably washes Diane's hair on the weekends only. 

[Taylorh2]

Gee, I'm Black and I've never heard 'the kitchen" thing

[ridethemaverick]

It does? That's not what I remember from childhood. It usually took longer to braid my hair than to press with a hot comb. I could never sit still long enough for braiding, and used to drive my mom crazy. Different strokes, I guess.

I figured Diane's hair was pressed, and I like Bow's reasoning. There's no way Diane could maintain her own hair at her age, so I understand why Bow would keep it pressed. Plus, it bugged me that Dre's mom was all about her Zulu/Cherokee heritage (of course, she had to throw some "Indian" in the mix), yet still referred to the back of Diane's hair as her "kitchen."

Yes it does for us. I can give my daughter two cute braids in ten minutes.

[ribboninthesky1]

Ah, I see.  My mom would do more than two - she was probably more intricate than necessary.  In that case, I totally understand where you're coming from - it would indeed be faster than pressing.

[BoogieBurns]

I'm Black and I've never heard 'the kitchen" thing

 

I've heard it a lot. But I still haven't heard a good reason as to why it's called that.

 

Several people have checked the back of my neck so I could prove my blackness. Seriously. You can't so much tell by looking at me what race I am, but when I tell people I am black, some have checked for "kitchens".

 

For the official record I think I look black and am confused anytime someone asks for proof. My kitchens are the equivalent of my black card.

[Mozelle]

Funny you should mention this, as I was wondering when the show would slide into this inevitable place. There's only so much of the "Black-ish" theme you can explore before it starts to feel redundant. I don't think it's an inherently bad thing to go broad, as I'm beginning to think the theme might have been a bad idea. What happens in season 2 or 3 of this show? The dual-identity aspect of living black in the US is real, but is there enough material to mine for more than a season?

Also, the show centers around Andre for the most part, but I think the supporting cast garners most of the laughs. At least for me. I've never found Anthony Anderson funny, and Tracee Ellis Ross is stealing the show right from under him. As are the actors playing Junior, Charlie, Josh, and Diane. I'm not sure if my issue is lack of interest in sitcoms compared to 10-15 years ago, or that Andre's schtick is already getting old for me.

So, as I typed the original comment you responded to, I knew my comment was lacking in that there was way more I wanted to say but was trying to find a way to say it.

Where I'm going with how Black-ish has quickly slipped into universal mode is not that I expected each episode to be Topics that Affect Black People So Much of the Time. I think of a show like Living Single that didn't burden itself with turning outward, and it brings into sharp relief the most recent episodes of Black-ish where exactly that seems to be happening. What I mean is that it feels as though Black-ish knows that its audience isn't only Black, and it makes me think each time of Toni Morrision when she talks about Ralph Ellison's Invisible Man: "Invisble to whom? Not to me." Is ABC making a show about Black people in all our infinite contradictions or are they now making a show where non-Black people can delight in how much Black people are complex...just like them!

Living Single didn't have to do Here's the Black Episode nor did they have to do Here's the Episode Where We Hope Our Non-Black Viewers Go "Hey! That Thing Happens to Me, Too!" Black-ish doesn't have to, either. I think I just want more moments like Bow mentioning why she presses Diane's hair or Zoey calling the back of Diane's head "her kitchen" or Dre's wrongness about Black history or his hyper obsession with clean, fly Nikes.

I feel like I haven't explained myself well (I hope I have, though), but I'm about to leave the office for the day so I need to cut short my thought experiment here.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Mozelle

[ribboninthesky1]

I'm trying to think if any of the popular black 90s sitcoms were specifically targeted to a "living while black" theme, and I can't think of any.  For me, that's the difference between Living Single or The Cosby Show or A Different World or My Wife and Kids and this show.  The former touched on experiences black people could relate to, but that wasn't the theme of the show.  It seemed more of a "people who happen to be black while acknowledging said blackness" scenario.  And so, there is still plenty to mine there.  

 

I'm not sure exactly what I want to convey, either.  It really just hit me after this week's episode: "Where can this show go?"  I like the details and nuances of the show as well.  At the same time, unless the show intends to open up the scope of the black experience beyond Andre principally, I foresee it getting redundant.  But I think that's because I increasingly find Andre annoying, and I'm more interested in other characters.  You have Bow, who is a biracial woman identifying as black. Talk about dual identity!  Beyond Dre's throw away line about Bow not really being black, will the show really go there? Will the show touch on colorism in general?  This particularly affects black women and girls in a way that doesn't affect black men and boys.  Will we see Bow having to navigate her workplace? Will we see Junior and Zoey having to navigate school and friends?  These are ideas to explore, but I'm skeptical the show will go there, especially since Kenya Barris is pulling many scenarios from his own experiences.  Which, okay, it's his vision. 

 

Thinking on this further, part of my problem with the show is that it feels like a black man's experience and that is supposed to represent THE black experience.  But as a black woman, there's a whole avenue of experiences I navigate because of the intersection of race and gender.  I think it would have been so much more interesting to have Bow's mom show up and see what happens rather than the tropey paternal mother-in-law antagonizing the wife.  Maybe I'm being unfair to the show.  I'll keep watching.

[Rinaldo]

Well, surely we're going to see her parents in time, right? (Her father being white.) They can't do everything in one episode, or even in five. 

[LJonEarth]

This is probably naive (especially with the opening premise and the title), but the show doesn't necessarily have to go anywhere. I quit watching Modern family three years in, mostly because I'm kind of over family-based sitcoms. But that show was much more (or less) than a show about a May-December romance or about a gay couple, etc. It had its own crazy mom comes to town story line too. It had tons of standard sitcom fare. That's just what this genre is.

 

I disagree about the idea that this is supposed to be THE black experience. Just the opposite, the thing that keeps coming through to me in these episodes (with the exception of this one) seems to be there's no one way to be black.

 

If you grew up in a similar situation that these kids did, as I did, sure the crazy things white kids said to you are going to standout, but honestly 75%+ of your life was just standard, studying, dating, teenage cattiness. With race as a backdrop at most. And I could say the same for my professional life now. So, I have no problem with the pacing with which the hard racial issues are being addressed here. But that's not to say I won't tire of this whole show as I did Modern Family and The Middle and The Goldbergs. But making the show purely about race wouldn't keep me around either.

 

This "kitchen" talk is killing me! Reminds me of praying that my grandma wouldn't burn my ears or poke me in the eyeball. Even with a legit African (Zulu?) parent, sadly, when I went natural, I discovered that my kitchen, and only my kitchen is completely straight. It makes a Zulu-Cherokee Afro impossible.

[Trini]

Gee, I'm Black and I've never heard 'the kitchen" thing

Make that two of us. I only heard of this term as a adult looking up hair care, etc. on the internet. I've NEVER heard anyone use it in real life. Is it a Southern or rural thing? My northeastern/urban/Caribbean experience never exposed me to it.

 

I've heard it a lot. But I still haven't heard a good reason as to why it's called that.

My guess: because it's in the back (of the house (head)).

[LJonEarth]

Make that two of us. I only heard of this term as a adult looking up hair care, etc. on the internet. I've NEVER heard anyone use it in real life. Is it a Southern or rural thing? My northeastern/urban/Caribbean experience never exposed me to it.

 

My guess: because it's in the back (of the house (head)).

 

I'm going to say Southern. Strange that I Googled it and came up with almost nothing.

 

Edited to write: Never mind. It should be obvious since that's where my hair was pressed. You heat the comb on the stove...in the kitchen.

 

Although, I found an article with Gwyneth Paltrow talking to Henry Louis Gates Jr. about her Jewish frizzy kitchen. So...I'm not sure what to make of that... I guess the word got out.

Edited November 21, 2014 by JinNashville

[BoogieBurns]

My family is from suburban California. So, I don't know why we called them kitchens. But we did. No southern roots for us. 

 

We did get our hair pressed in the kitchen, so I'll agree with JinNashville's explanation. I did find this blogger's opinion below:

...it seems to me the term "kitchen" came about because that is where things get burnt. think about it. the nape of the neck has the shortest strands (those stray ones that sometimes crawl down the neck but do not grow long) and in an attempt to straighten those stubborn strands on a wiggly *** child, the neck often was burnt.

[rue721]

or Dre's wrongness about Black history or his hyper obsession with clean, fly Nikes.

 

Dre restoring his 1990s or 2000s Nikes could be the framing device for a flashback episode. OMG this is so ridiculously stupid but you know how in the pilot the family was talking about how Jack didn't even know Obama is the first black president, etc? It was so muddy/rainy/crowded at Obama's first inauguration, I would love to see Dre trying to clean shoes from going to *that,* and it could go into "flashbacks." Actually, they could make it so a bunch of his important Life Moments have happened when it was rainy and terrible outside, and it could be a joke that he's always having to work hard to restore his shoes from those dates. Esp since they're in LA/So Cal, lol.

 

You have Bow, who is a biracial woman identifying as black. Talk about dual identity!  Beyond Dre's throw away line about Bow not really being black, will the show really go there?

 

I think that the show does go there *somewhat,* but it's never really been from Bow's POV so far, which makes it feel "off" imo. I haven't seen this week's episode yet, but just last week they had that line from Dre about how Bow has a white father but not everyone "can win the lotto." She's also always the one giving the naive/"PC" viewpoint within the family, like how she was the one being like, "isn't it good for Diane to not see her classmates' color," etc. Not sure how realistic I think that is in general, esp because it's Bow's mom who's black, and I find it hard to believe that a mom wouldn't be blunter than that with her daughter just for her daughter's own sake, but YMMV, and of course I have no idea yet what Bow's family is like in particular anyway.

 

Tbh I don't even remember if Bow's mom *is* black or if she's African? Just figured she was black because Dre is always so rough on African people, but maybe he's just *really* insensitive, lol. I would kind of love it if they just completely used Tracee Ellis Ross's real life background and made Bow's mom a Diana Ross-eque superstar, but ironically, that would probably come off as weird and OTT on the show. Too reminiscent of that Christ Rock joke about his black neighbors all being international superstars at the top of their fabulously lucrative fields, and his white neighbors all being dentists or just whatever.

 

Will the show touch on colorism in general?  This particularly affects black women and girls in a way that doesn't affect black men and boys.

 

I'm wondering about this w/r/t Andre Jr., actually. When I was in middle/high school ten or fifteen years ago, a very light skinned guy like him would have been a crush magnet at that age. It'd be interesting to see how he'd react to being seen as a potential "trophy boyfriend," and how Zoey would feel about that, too. Maybe that wouldn't make sense within the show's setting/premise, though.

Edited November 21, 2014 by rue721

[LJonEarth]

I'm wondering about this w/r/t Andre Jr., actually. When I was in middle/high school ten or fifteen years ago, a very light skinned guy like him would have been a crush magnet at that age. It'd be interesting to see how he'd react to being seen as a potential "trophy boyfriend," and how Zoey would feel about that, too. Maybe that wouldn't make sense within the show's setting/premise, though.

 

A trophy for black girls or non-black girls? When I was in school, the dark and/or non-completely assimilated black guys would have been the trophies. My lighter male cousins had a hard time with the ladies. But, who knows what it's like now. Something contrived would have to happen to counteract Junior's nerdy reputation and social ineptitude. But that is the stuff of sitcoms.

 

Slightly off that topic, I watched a documentary about colorism. I heard that some black parents coach their kids to pair off with someone light if you were dark skinned and vice versa if you had light skin. This was the first I'd ever heard of that. So much energy wasted silliness!

[Empress1]

My northeastern/urban/Caribbean experience never exposed me to it.

I grew up in the urban northeast with roots in the Caribbean on my mom's side and heard "kitchen." However, I had not heard the term "kitchen-ass," as in "Look at that kitchen-ass wig" until a friend from the South said it a few years ago. (It means cheap or cheap-looking, used in reference to fake hair.)

[TiffanyNichelle]

The first time I ever heard of kitchen in reference to hair was on the Martin show. And it's still really the only place that I've heard it. My family is Southern though I was raised in the North and we've never actually used that term so the only way I know it is via tv.

 

But we did (still do actually) use the hot comb. My mother would heat it up on the stove in an old can. I'm also tenderheaded and could never stand to get my hair pressed out because I was scared of getting burned. Which has happened!

[ridethemaverick]

Ah, I see. My mom would do more than two - she was probably more intricate than necessary. In that case, I totally understand where you're coming from - it would indeed be faster than pressing.

I would do more intricate if I knew how LOL (holds tightly to black card)

Yeah I don't think light skinned guys are trophies (see every joke about Drake). They had a brief moment in the sun thanks to All B Sure and Christopher Williams but the Morris Chestnuts and Idris Elbas tend to fare better these days.

[mojito]

 

"Look at that kitchen-ass wig" until a friend from the South said it a few years ago. (It means cheap or cheap-looking, used in reference to fake hair.)

I would've thought that "kitchen-ass wig" meant a wig put on so poorly that the wearer's kitchen was showing.

[kia112]

AIUI, many NA groups took in non-NAs, ranging from children captured in raids to people escaping from slavery. So it was possible to be culturally NA without being genetically NA.

Yeah, but I thought people talked about having NA ancestry as it relates to their hair.

[Hanahope]

I love the natural hair education in this episode.  The first time I straightened my hair after I went natural, you would have thought that I performed wizardry by the reactions of some people at work.  And the second, and the third, and the fourth... (it got old after awhile).

 

I have to admit, the first time I was in a hair-salon and watched a woman with Afro hair get a blow-out, where her hair went from a huge pooffy all over the place mess, to a sleek smooth hairstyle, it was almost like magic.  I definitely gained a new appreciation for what one has to go through with that type of hair.

[dusang]

All the hair discussion makes me think of "Good Hair" a documentary by Chris Rock about black (women's) hair.  (I'm bracketing the women because I think there MIGHT be a small section on black men but really it's mostly about the ladies.)

 

It's probably not the definitive source on black hair but it's a pretty entertaining doc for anyone to watch.

[romantic idiot]

I also found it interesting that Bow focused on the natural being harder to maintain and blew past the cultural aspect of the straightened vs natural thing. Though I have to ask, wouldn't all that heat from such an early age be really bad for Diane's hair, and make it more fragile? I can feel my hair becoming worse every time I blow it dry. 

 

I wish it weren't though, because curly hair like that is awesome. I'd have killed for hair like that growing up. And still would. Looks so soft and springy. And fun! 

[ridethemaverick]

I have to admit, the first time I was in a hair-salon and watched a woman with Afro hair get a blow-out, where her hair went from a huge pooffy all over the place mess, to a sleek smooth hairstyle, it was almost like magic. I definitely gained a new appreciation for what one has to go through with that type of hair.

Please don't think of my type of hair as something I have to "go through." Honestly, I find it a little insulting.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Although, I found an article with Gwyneth Paltrow talking to Henry Louis Gates Jr. about her Jewish frizzy kitchen. So...I'm not sure what to make of that... I guess the word got out.

Gwyneth has on occasion hung around with Beyoncé because of her husband Chris Martin's collabo with Jay Z. I wonder if that's where she picked up on "kitchen".

 

I'd like to see the show touch on the "Black women don't shave their legs" thing. (And by "thing" I mean something alleged as a general fact which probably isn't.)

Edited November 26, 2014 by Joimiaroxeu

[PRgal]

Please don't think of my type of hair as something I have to "go through." Honestly, I find it a little insulting.

 

Every woman has to "go through" something with her hair.  Those of us with poker straight, very fine hair (like yours truly), often can't hold waves/curls without loads and loads of product.  It makes hair feel really gross!  I have to get my hair curled really tightly a few hours before an event just so it could look wavy later.  The waves tend to stay on longer, though.

[BoogieBurns]

I'd like to see the show touch on the "Black women don't shave their legs" thing. (And by "thing" I mean something alleged as a general fact which probably isn't.)

 

I have never heard of this before! Why is this a thing? I mean, why is this an assumption

[PRgal]

I have never heard of this before! Why is this a thing? I mean, why is this an assumption

 

Never occurred to me.  I *HAVE* heard of "East Asian women don't shave their legs" comments though.  It's because we're (stereotypically) less hairy than other races.  I shave my legs once a month, but that's only because I killed most of my hair follicles when I was a teenager by using depilatory creams.

[dusang]

Please don't think of my type of hair as something I have to "go through." Honestly, I find it a little insulting.

I thought the joy of being a woman was having to go through virtually every aspect of your appearance - every vacation or event I go through a week of esthetics futzing. I don't even look that good by the end of it all!

Never occurred to me.  I *HAVE* heard of "East Asian women don't shave their legs" comments though.  It's because we're (stereotypically) less hairy than other races.

I am white and I literally, honestly and seriously had a black guy (in his twenties) touch the hair on my arm and ask why I was so hairy. His older brother said, "all white people are hairy." While somewhat mortifying, I've always found that moment hilarious.

[Joimiaroxeu]

I have never heard of this before! Why is this a thing? I mean, why is this an assumption

My first time hearing it was back in 2010 when actress/comedienne Mo'Nique showed up at the Golden Globes wearing sheer hose over clearly unshaven legs. It was not a pretty sight.

During the media storm that blew up afterward, the New York Times jumped into the fray. A certain Black woman blogger on political and cultural issues was quoted in the NYT article asserting that Black women were/are specifically taught not to shave their legs because it was/is considered something that "White people do".

This is a sentiment that I remember being surprised to see repeated by posters on more than one forum. Apparently it is "a thing" but maybe one that doesn't come into public view very often. I've still never seen an explanation of why this belief would've developed to begin with. That's why I suggested it for Black-ish.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Joimiaroxeu

[Mozelle]

I also found it interesting that Bow focused on the natural being harder to maintain and blew past the cultural aspect of the straightened vs natural thing. Though I have to ask, wouldn't all that heat from such an early age be really bad for Diane's hair, and make it more fragile? I can feel my hair becoming worse every time I blow it dry. 

 

I wish it weren't though, because curly hair like that is awesome. I'd have killed for hair like that growing up. And still would. Looks so soft and springy. And fun! 

 

I think it depends. My mom pressed my hair for a lot of years--maybe until I was 12--and I had thick, densely-packed hair that fell a few inches past my shoulders. She switched me up to relaxers around that time and I used relaxers up until three, almost four, years ago. My hair was less dense than it was in my youth during that time, but I was still able to retain length. I only made the decision to stop using relaxers after a bad braid install in late 2007 that eventually made me cut my actual hair into the Victoria Beckham bob in February 2008. From then until January 2011, I was having difficulty retaining any length beyond the shoulder-length bob I'd been sporting from the time of that major cut. I made the decision to grow out of my relaxer at that point.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Mozelle

[kia112]

My mom braided my hair until I went to middle school, then I alternated between rocking the extension braids and having her press/curl my hair.  I had thick, long hair through those years.  My mom was not a fan of having to press my hair, and I'd been begging her to let me get a relaxer, so she finally let me when I was around 13.  She told me that they (my parents) would obviously pay for the initial relaxer and all of the touch-ups and get me to the salon, but I had to be the one to make the appointments and know when I needed a touch up so my hair wouldn't break off and to take care of it in between visits.  I didn't pay attention to how much my hair thinned out while I had a relaxer until I went natural in 2009.  I'm not balding or anything, but my hair definitely isn't as thick as it was.

[ridethemaverick]

Every woman has to "go through" something with her hair. Those of us with poker straight, very fine hair (like yours truly), often can't hold waves/curls without loads and loads of product. It makes hair feel really gross! I have to get my hair curled really tightly a few hours before an event just so it could look wavy later. The waves tend to stay on longer, though.

I agree but between that suck ass Good Hair movie and the subsequent press tour, I have had white people actually tell me "I had no idea what black women have to go through" and "I didnt know black hair was such a struggle!" amd my favorite, "I dont know how you do it! If I had hair like that I'd probably just shave it all off!"

I'm just saying...don't pity me. As you said, I don't "go through" any more than any other woman and I happen to love my natural hair. It's not a struggle and it's not a burden.

Edited November 26, 2014 by ridethemaverick

[ridethemaverick]

My first time hearing it was back in 2010 when actress/comedienne Mo'Nique showed up at the Golden Globes wearing sheer hose over clearly unshaven legs. It was not a pretty sight.

During the media storm that blew up afterward, the New York Times jumped into the fray. A certain Black woman blogger on political and cultural issues was quoted in the NYT article asserting that Black women were/are specifically taught not to shave their legs because it was/is considered something that "White people do".

This is a sentiment that I remember being surprised to see repeated by posters on more than one forum. Apparently it is "a thing" but maybe one that doesn't come into public view very often. I've still never seen an explanation of why this belief would've developed to begin with. That's why I suggested it for Black-ish.

I'm not convinced it's a thing.

What I have noticed is that the white parents I know let their daughters to things like shave, wax, wear makeup, dye their hair, etc relatively early. I was never told I couldn't shave my legs because 'black women don't do that.' But there were definite...I guess I'd call them age milestones for me and all the black girls I know. So shaving was fine, just not at 12 years old.*

*I'm speaking for myself and people I know, not all black women everywhere.

I kinda don't want this show to become "hey guys, this is what black people do. Isn't it hilarious?" I don't want them to start throwing in random things that a black person once did or said. Because some people are dumb and some of us work with these people and we don't want to have to hear or answer dumb ass comments and questions (see my Good Hair comments).

[Joimiaroxeu]

I kinda don't want this show to become "hey guys, this is what black people do. Isn't it hilarious?" I don't want them to start throwing in random things that a black person once did or said.

I agree. So far the show has skated above the slapstick "LOLBLKPPL!" line that many Black-centric comedies have tended to sink below. However, I read discussion somewhere--it may have been here--that this show was probably going to run out of "Black-ish" things to build shows on.

 

So, if they happen to need an idea I wouldn't mind seeing the leg-shaving thing addressed even if it may largely be a myth or mostly an older-generation notion. An easy scenario could be that Dre goes to shave one day, finds his razor is unexpectedly dull, and it turns out that one of the ladies in the house used it without warning him. That might be a good show to bring Jennifer Lawrence back for since her character seems the one mostly likely to drop an unexpectedly casual cultural reference.

 

I'm not convinced it's a thing.

I'm wasn't either but googling brings up many articles and blog posts which mention the issue and they aren't all in the 2010 time-frame.

[ridethemaverick]

Ok I mean if you want to believe the shaving thing I won't stand in your way. Everyone I know was all wtf? after the Monique thing but what do we know. We're just black women. :)

Edited November 27, 2014 by ridethemaverick

[Nessie]

...Is ABC making a show about Black people in all our infinite contradictions or are they now making a show where non-Black people can delight in how much Black people are complex...just like them!

Living Single didn't have to do Here's the Black Episode nor did they have to do Here's the Episode Where We Hope Our Non-Black Viewers Go "Hey! That Thing Happens to Me, Too!" Black-ish doesn't have to, either. I think I just want more moments like Bow mentioning why she presses Diane's hair or Zoey calling the back of Diane's head "her kitchen" or Dre's wrongness about Black history or his hyper obsession with clean, fly Nikes.

Do the two things have to be exclusive, though?  I may be hopelessly naive, but it seems to me that any show with a black cast (aside from a few supporting characters) and is about "black stuff", but that makes non-blacks think "hey, I can relate to that" can only be a good thing.  Like Diane's hair...I'm white, but I have extremely thick, long, curly hair.  Straightening it may take longer initially, but it's much easier to take care of when it's straight than when I let it do it's thing.  So yeah, I related to those scenes, even the one where the combs got stuck in Diane's hair, because that happened to me more than once as a child. These days, with racial tensions so high in certain parts of the country, it seems to me that there's nothing wrong with exploring  some of the similarities between the races, instead of focusing on what's different.

 

I'm just saying...don't pity me. As you said, I don't "go through" any more than any other woman and I happen to love my natural hair. It's not a struggle and it's not a burden.

Props to you.  I love my curly hair, as well, but it can definitely be a struggle when I let it be natural.  Although I laugh at calling it that...there is generally so much product in it to get it to behave that there is nothing "natural" about it.

[romantic idiot]

I think the cause is socioeconomic as well for the reason you stated, Kromm. If there is less access to pools the chances are that a black person will likely not learn to swim. (And yes, I know that not all black people live in areas with fewer resources, but plenty do.)

I only learned to swim at seven because of my summer weeks spent at an LA Boys and Girls Club where we went to a neighborhood pool on a weekly basis.

This is from a while back. Why would you guys need pools? Wouldn't you have watering holes and ponds that can be swum in? Is it a climate thing? In my country, very few swimmers I know actually learnt in pools.

 

Something I remember, and I think this was with Stateside, not West Indian women, was the unwillingness to go pools or beaches because they didn't want to get DARKER.

This is most definitely not only an American thing - and it makes me so sad. 

 

I think the cultural barriers, at least now, has more of either historical (especially regarding golf and tennis) or just something that the older generations don't "get."  I don't think Asians not playing hockey (I'm in Canada, so I have to bring this up - LOL!) is necessarily due to historical segregation, since there were relatively few Asians in Canada when the NHL was white-only compared to today.  None of the full-Asian kids I went to school with had parents who were born in Canada - the parents mostly came as adults or younger teens.  Therefore, they wouldn't have grown up watching hockey, so the kids don't play, even though the kids took skating.  Of course, size may be an issue, too.  I mean, a 5'8" or 5'9", 150-160 lb Asian being bodychecked by a 6'1", 200 lb player...ouch.  Probably reason why there aren't a lot of Asians in football.

See, for a minute I was puzzled because i know lots of East Indians who love and play hockey and football. And then I realised y'all were speaking of ice hockey and American football. Heh. 

 

If people can learn to pronounce names like Tchaikovsky, they can learn to pronounce Tyresha.

I hate name bias. It's so stupid and racist. All names were made up at some point. Hell I think a lot of Anglo names sound stupid but I wouldn't refuse to hire a Brayden or Hailey.

I'm going to sound impossibly naive - but yikes - that happens? Wouldn't the probability of error in doing such a thing be too high though? I mean it's not like the naming convention goes back  thousands of years. 

 

In the UK the only person I've met with the name Andre was French. In the area I work in (London) there seems to be a lot people of Indian descent (some of them 4th generation UK) who us UK nicknames for Indian names "Sam" for Sanjay or "Katie" for Kamal etc. There doesn't seem to be a huge "white name/black name" difference among the middle classes where I live.  The name "Tyresha" would get flagged up as "American" before "black" in any system that was paying attention.

It's probably because you guys can't pronounce the names otherwise (she said jokingly). Honestly, I'd much rather hand someone an easy to use nickname than have to hear him or her butcher my name every time, and feel bad for how much they are struggling with it. 

 

Never occurred to me.  I *HAVE* heard of "East Asian women don't shave their legs" comments though.  It's because we're (stereotypically) less hairy than other races.  I shave my legs once a month, but that's only because I killed most of my hair follicles when I was a teenager by using depilatory creams.

 

By East Asian you mean Chinese / Japanese / South East Asian ancestry or Indian subcontinent? I think us subcontinental Indians have plenty of hair myself. (Though I don't because of my mother's most wondrous gift to me).

[formerlyfreedom]

This is from a while back. Why would you guys need pools? Wouldn't you have watering holes and ponds that can be swum in? Is it a climate thing? In my country, very few swimmers I know actually learnt in pools..

 

In urban areas in the US, there are no watering holes or ponds to swim in. If you happen to have a park with a pond, it's usually not allowed to swim in it.

 

Having grown up in a somewhat more rural area (a small city in a Midwestern state), we had a handful of ponds/creeks, but even then, we still went to the city pool most of the time.

[Athena]

By East Asian you mean Chinese / Japanese / South East Asian ancestry or Indian subcontinent? I think us subcontinental Indians have plenty of hair myself. (Though I don't because of my mother's most wondrous gift to me).

 

Not PRgal but East Asian predominantly refers to Chinese / Japanese / Koreans / Vietnamese. I would say Thai, Filipinos, Cambodians, Laotians, Burmese, Malay, etc. are more South East Asian. Indian subcontinent (Sri Lanka, India, Bangaldesh, etc) are more often referred to as South Asian.

[PRgal]

Not PRgal but East Asian predominantly refers to Chinese / Japanese / Koreans / Vietnamese. I would say Thai, Filipinos, Cambodians, Laotians, Burmese, Malay, etc. are more South East Asian. Indian subcontinent (Sri Lanka, India, Bangaldesh, etc) are more often referred to as South Asian.

 

Thanks, @Athena!  @romanticidiot, in North America, East Asian/Asian refers to Chinese/Japanese/Korean while Southeast Asian = Thai Filipino, etc...  Indians/Sri Lankans/Pakistani/etc... are South Asian.  I don't know about the US, but in Canada, South Asians have a separate check box in the census.  For some reason, they're all grouped into one while East Asians are furthur subcategorized (e.g. I might check off "Chinese" in the forms rather than just Asian/East Asian). 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Ok I mean if you want to believe the shaving thing I won't stand in your way

To clarify, I never said I believed it. What I do believe is that a not-insignificant number of other people seem to think it's true and have confirmed that it's also their experience. This show might be able to put the kibosh on the matter. Or not.

Edited November 27, 2014 by Joimiaroxeu