S06.E08: The Summit

[jjj]

21 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

 Also, what exactly is McIlraith? Does it exist? Is it a Soviet front group? If Jackson hadn't looked inside the box, what would have happened when he showed up to the first day of the management training program? 

No, it does not exist -- and there was never going to be a first day there.  If he had just handed over the box, she would have disappeared forever.  But seriously, he can't be all that brilliant if he wrote up Senator Nunn's activities and handed it over on a breezy, "all the guys at the office have clearance, it's fine".

From the preview last week, I thought his face in the car was him about to be killed.  There was some young military officer many seasons ago that we also thought would be killed by her, but somehow she let that one go.  (I remember some beachy scene.)

4 minutes ago, kikaha said:

As soon as Renee walked into the bedroom, I thought she was a Soviet spy, whose job is to keep tabs on Stan.  Center knows a high-level FBI officer lives across the street from two of its most valuable agents.  Seems like it would be critical for them to know what's up with him, as an insurance policy, in case he has doubts/questions about the Jennings.  Renee, I thought, is that insurance policy. 

Oh, yes, and I thought the camera shot *over her shoulder* when she got into bed, was rather ominous -- like it was about to be her taking aim at him.  You can all beat me up if she turns out to be just a girl from Topeka. 

[mjc570]

One minor thing:  I thought it was pretty recent that Elizabeth took up smoking so heavily.  Was she doing that in Season 1, where I think she interacted with Curtis? 

Otherwise, I thought it was a decent, pretty linear episode, although I have to admit that I just didn't get how the dead artist's picture resonated so much with Elizabeth. To me, (wthout my glasses on), it l looked like a woman in extreme pain - is that how Elizabeth sees herself?

[Sarah 103]

1 minute ago, jjj said:

No, it does not exist -- and there was never going to be a first day there.  If he had just handed over the box, she would have disappeared forever. 

Sorry, I know I'm probably overthinking this, but it still doesn't quite make sense. If he hadn't opened the box, would there have been a cover story/some excuse about how he didn't get into the program after all? 

[sistermagpie]

8 minutes ago, kikaha said:

As soon as Renee walked into the bedroom, I thought she was a Soviet spy, whose job is to keep tabs on Stan.  Center knows a high-level FBI officer lives across the street from two of its most valuable agents.  Seems like it would be critical for them to know what's up with him, as an insurance policy, in case he has doubts/questions about the Jennings.  Renee, I thought, is that insurance policy. 

Why invest an entire agent just to babysit other agents, one of whom you're running ragged? If Renee's insurance she's terrible at it because she still doesn't seem to have reported to anyone that Stan is actively investigating his neighbors. Seems like they'll find out from somebody else--or Stan himself--before Renee will have a clue. Plus a Russian agent wouldn't apply to work at the FBI. 

2 minutes ago, mjc570 said:

One minor thing:  I thought it was pretty recent that Elizabeth took up smoking so heavily.  Was she doing that in Season 1, where I think she interacted with Curtis? 

I think the idea is that she always smoked but she smoked more with Gregory than she did with Philip. Gregory was somebody she connected with her younger self and I'll bet she smoked more as a younger person so still did with him. (They smoked pot as well.) So there probably is a connection like him just always thinking of her as a smoker since she usually was smoking with Gregory.

Edited May 17, 2018 by sistermagpie

[lucindabelle]

I spent most of this episode heading Elizabeth so bad that I was forced to take to Twitter.

 

I’m glad She didn’t kill Jackson but she has killed so many other people ruined so many other lives, including the Greenhaus guy last season. She never seems to let these things sit with her at all.

 

It’s almost like Philip has his own conscience, and hers too.

[Sarah 103]

1 minute ago, mjc570 said:

One minor thing:  I thought it was pretty recent that Elizabeth took up smoking so heavily.  Was she doing that in Season 1, where I think she interacted with Curtis? 

I thought she had always smoked but that the number of cigarettes she smoked had dramatically increased sometime between the events of season 5 and season 6. Someone smoking in the early 1980s would not have seemed strange at all. I remember into the 90s restaurants having smoking and non-smoking sections. 

[jjj]

2 minutes ago, mjc570 said:

One minor thing:  I thought it was pretty recent that Elizabeth took up smoking so heavily.  Was she doing that in Season 1, where I think she interacted with Curtis? 

Otherwise, I thought it was a decent, pretty linear episode, although I have to admit that I just didn't get how the dead artist's picture resonated so much with Elizabeth. To me, (wthout my glasses on), it l looked like a woman in extreme pain - is that how Elizabeth sees herself?

I think she was sneaking cigarettes in Season 1 already.  And the picture -- I think it was the first time Elizabeth understood the connection of emotion and art.  I REALLY thought the painting in the cupboard was going to be the thing that nailed her, when the FBI invaded the garage. 

2 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

Sorry, I know I'm probably overthinking this, but it still doesn't quite make sense. If he hadn't opened the box, would there have been a cover story/some excuse about how he didn't get into the program after all? 

She just would have disappeared.  He would have no way of tracking her down.  No excuse needed. 

[kikaha]

1 minute ago, sistermagpie said:

Why invest an entire agent just to babysit other agents, one of whom you're running ragged? If Renee's insurance she's terrible at it because she still doesn't seem to have reported to anyone that Stan is actively investigating his neighbors. Seems like they'll find out from somebody else--or Stan himself--before Renee will have a clue. Plus a Russian agent wouldn't apply to work at the FBI.

Stan hasn't given Renee (or anyone) a clue he's investigating the Jennings -- at least not till this last episode.  She hasn't reported anything because there's been nothing to report till now.

Actually, my thought was that she might be the ultimate insurance policy, who has the green light to do whatever she needs to protect the Jennings. 

As for applying to work for the FBI, why wouldn't she?  She doesn't have to be a Russian plant to be a Russian spy.  She might easily pass all the background checks, as a long-time seemingly loyal US citizen.  In fact, Stan's advice to her might be an anvil of that very thing.  Getting a Russian inside the FBI would be a minor coup on the KGB's part, a potential gold mine of info. 

[CaliCheeseSucks]

3 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

I thought she had always smoked but that the number of cigarettes she smoked had dramatically increased sometime between the events of season 5 and season 6. Someone smoking in the early 1980s would not have seemed strange at all. I remember into the 90s restaurants having smoking and non-smoking sections. 

Heck, in 2000 it was a big deal when Friendship Heights (a neighborhood in Chevy Chase) outlawed smoking almost everywhere outdoors. It was so controversial - and not necessarily going to withstand legal challenges - it was repealed in spring of 2001. Now, that's more and more common. Not so at the turn to the 21st century.

[Erin9]

@sistermagpie

I was pleased too that Philip was wary enough about Elizabeth to not let her contact Oleg directly. Elizabeth had to spell it all out to him. Which was great for him and us. 

I hadn’t put together what exactly Philip was doing watching that movie, but I think you nailed it.  He was watching a Russian movie reminding himself of what he was dying for, what he’d put first.( I think he expected Elizabeth to betray him.) What a contrast to the Paige propaganda fest. 

The real Claudia finally showed up tonight. I’ve been waiting. 

 

ETA- I missed Sandra too when I saw the pic. She was a real 3 dimensional person. 

Edited May 17, 2018 by Erin9

[tennisgurl]

I swear, Renee isnt a spy, shes some kind of alien who is here to observe our ways. She just acts so...weird. 

Really, Liz is more like Paige than she might like to think she is. Paige is painfully trusting when it comes to the people who feed into her beliefs, and so is Elizabeth, its just that Elizabeth has had the same cause for her whole life. She really does still have too much trust in Claudia, and its honestly kind of sad. This has been her whole life, and the idea that its basically been a war for a lifestyle that no longer exists is certainly a bitter pill to swallow. And she has had so many years of being told that this is right, its hard for her to see any nuance. 

Philip on the other hand, is all nuance. As Elizabeth found out, Philip isnt turning his back on the homeland, he is trying to save it. Of course, Philip is also convinced that he is about to give up his life for it, and for the future, killed by the woman he loves. Hence buying his own funeral suit, and taking some time to watch a Russian movie just to get one tiny sliver of home before he goes. Really, its pretty depressing that just popping in Solaris or something is so forbidden. They cant have anything at all from home. Philip and Elizabeth for a long time I think worked because they were so different. Elizabeth was the true believer, Philip was the more critical thinker (that might even be why they got put together) but now its hurting their foundation, because they just think differently. 

Seriously, where the hell has Oleg been? Is he just getting really into his class cover or something, and has been doing homework all day long? We saw him more last season, and he was on the other side of the planet from the rest of the cast! I need my favorite character back before we close this show up! Of course, when he isnt on screen, he isnt in danger as much, so...I dont know! 

At least point, literally everyone is going to figure out something is up with the Jennings before Stan. The mail robot will figure it out before Stan does. 

Edited May 17, 2018 by tennisgurl

[Umbelina]

I KNEW Claudia was in on that plot and lying to Elizabeth.

My only other choice was that she (easily) put it all together logically.

I read the recap and the comments because obviously I have no qualms about spoilers, but I can't watch it until Amazon puts it up in a few hours.

They took a left turn, and I'm happy about that.  Philip and Elizabeth, back together again, fighting for their country, and against quite a few of the KGB and power players in the USSR this time, instead of against the USA.

Wow.  Nicely played.

[Auntie Anxiety]

Quote

I swear, Renee isnt a spy, shes some kind of alien who is here to watch observe our ways. She just acts so...weird. 

 

I think the actress isn’t that great (she was meh on The Walking Dead) and its like no one ever spent much time giving the actress a back story for character, something she could draw from. The role has no depth.

[lucindabelle]

Calling it now, I will be very much surprised if Renée turned out to be anything other than a red herring. I won’t feel trolled, or at least not anymore trolled then I feel by red herrings in other mysteries. With just two episodes left, making her anything else would feel much more contrived.

I was cringing so bad when Elizabeth honey traps that poor kid

[jjj]

If they are trolling us with the whiffs of Renee subterfuge, they are doing a very good job.  I just watched the bedroom window scene again, and she gives him a Look right before she turns out the light.  And it was not a wistful look, but a hard look. 

But I am ❤️ing everyone who thinks she is just there to love Stan and mock people like me. 

Speaking of bad acting, again, Paige recited her lines like she was sounding them out phonetically.  But the upside was she left the room and was not seen again. 

Edited May 17, 2018 by jjj

[Ellaria]

4 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

...and the idea that its basically been a war for a lifestyle that no longer exists is certainly a bitter pill to swallow.

And she has an actual pill that she can swallow at any time although I suspect that Philip may actually be the one that does it.

Quote

Seriously, where the hell has Oleg been? Is he just getting really into his class cover or something, and has been doing homework all day long? We saw him more last season, and he was on the other side of the planet from the rest of the cast! I need my favorite character back before we close this show up!Of course, when he isnt on screen, he isnt in danger as much, so...I dont know! 

This is annoying me, too. They drag him back here only to give him he minimal screen time while being integral to the plot. 

[Sarah 103]

14 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

The mail robot will figure it out before Stan does. 

The mail robot already knows they're spies. He helped them when Soviet agents placed a bug in him. 

[Umbelina]

18 minutes ago, jjj said:

No, it does not exist -- and there was never going to be a first day there.  If he had just handed over the box, she would have disappeared forever.  But seriously, he can't be all that brilliant if he wrote up Senator Nunn's activities and handed it over on a breezy, "all the guys at the office have clearance, it's fine".

From the preview last week, I thought his face in the car was him about to be killed.  There was some young military officer many seasons ago that we also thought would be killed by her, but somehow she let that one go.  (I remember some beachy scene.)

 

I think it exists, but obviously there was no job offer and she didn't actually work there.

Stupid kid, he should have gone straight to the FBI with that tape.  Hey show, guess what?  Not all young adults are that stupid.  Many of us would have reacted appropriately, and certainly never have met up with her again.  We aren't all Paiges and whatever his name was.

That was the soldier who got the documents on Larrick (her rapist) and she was never going to kill him, she just wasn't going to sleep with him, and she blamed that on her rape trauma.

15 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Why invest an entire agent just to babysit other agents, one of whom you're running ragged? If Renee's insurance she's terrible at it because she still doesn't seem to have reported to anyone that Stan is actively investigating his neighbors. Seems like they'll find out from somebody else--or Stan himself--before Renee will have a clue. Plus a Russian agent wouldn't apply to work at the FBI. 

I think the idea is that she always smoked but she smoked more with Gregory than she did with Philip. Gregory was somebody she connected with her younger self and I'll bet she smoked more as a younger person so still did with him. (They smoked pot as well.) So there probably is a connection like him just always thinking of her as a smoker since she usually was smoking with Gregory.

Well, I'm sure the KGB would love to have another Martha rising through the secretarial ranks of the FBI...

Yes, she smoked with Gregory, and she hid it from the kids.  They are out of the house, she's stressed, she's no longer sneaking them.

15 minutes ago, lucindabelle said:

 

I’m glad She didn’t kill Jackson but she has killed so many other people ruined so many other lives, including the Greenhaus guy last season. She never seems to let these things sit with her at all.

 

Philip, up until this year, has killed as many people as Elizabeth.

Also, Philip expected her to kill that guy in the submarine plot warehouse, but deferred to her when she just took the photo of his kid, and didn't.  She doesn't ALWAYS kill.  She hated killing the mail robot woman, it tore her up.

 

7 minutes ago, kikaha said:

Stan hasn't given Renee (or anyone) a clue he's investigating the Jennings -- at least not till this last episode.  She hasn't reported anything because there's been nothing to report till now.

Actually, my thought was that she might be the ultimate insurance policy, who has the green light to do whatever she needs to protect the Jennings. 

As for applying to work for the FBI, why wouldn't she?  She doesn't have to be a Russian plant to be a Russian spy.  She might easily pass all the background checks, as a long-time seemingly loyal US citizen.  In fact, Stan's advice to her might be an anvil of that very thing.  Getting a Russian inside the FBI would be a minor coup on the KGB's part, a potential gold mine of info. 

Or, if Renee is pro-Gorbachev Coup?  To take them out.  We don't know how long this coup plan has been in the works.

Stan may have a couple of shocks coming, or Renee skates, and is embedded in the FBI. 

5 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

 

Seriously, where the hell has Oleg been? Is he just getting really into his class cover or something, and has been doing homework all day long? We saw him more last season, and he was on the other side of the planet from the rest of the cast! I need my favorite character back before we close this show up!Of course, when he isnt on screen, he isnt in danger as much, so...I dont know! 

 

It would be complete bullshit to have Oleg be in more scenes, he, were this real, would try to NOT meet with Philip unless it was critical.  The initial meetings were, but now, a dead drop will work.  He's trying to stay alive, and not expose the illegals either.  There is no pressing reason to risk that, and he's picked up the FBI tails on him now.

[Harry24]

Spoiler

I’m certain it was Cary Grant too. (big fan!) But I couldn’t hear well enough to place the movie. I don’t think it was North by Northwest, but that would’ve been appropriate. 

I think it was "I Was a Male War Bride."

[Ellaria]

8 hours ago, Umbelina said:

It would be complete bullshit to have Oleg be in more scenes, he, were this real, would try to NOT meet with Philip unless it was critical.  The initial meetings were, but now, a dead drop will work.  He's trying to stay alive, and not expose the illegals either.  There is no pressing reason to risk that, and he's picked up the FBI tails on him now.

Perhaps it would be nice to see the actor since...you know...it is a TV show. It’s not like every other aspect that we have seen of spy life in the last few seasons is a  perfect representation of real life. 

Edited May 17, 2018 by Ellaria Sand

[jjj]

5 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

The mail robot already knows they're spies. He helped them when Soviet agents placed a bug in him. 

The mail robot knows Philip and Elizabeth up close! 

 

5 minutes ago, Harry24 said:

  Reveal hidden contents

I’m certain it was Cary Grant too. (big fan!) But I couldn’t hear well enough to place the movie. I don’t think it was North by Northwest, but that would’ve been appropriate. 

I think it was "I Was a Male War Bride."

Oh, that is a great film, and I will listen to see if that is in the background on the rerun.   I get to watch three times in the same night on the West Coast (four if I really want to check something).  Tonight, one viewing was all I could take, except for checking a few lines for accuracy here.   (This is the only show I watch when it actually airs. )

[Umbelina]

Just now, Ellaria Sand said:

Perhaps it would be nice to see the actor since...you know...it is a TV show. It’s not like every other aspect that we have seen of spy life in the last few seasons has synched perfectly with real life.

Oh I'd love to see him as well.

The reality is though?  He does three things there, meets with Philip, has carefully coded phone calls with his dad and ONLY when he has something to report, and attends the class.

Meeting with Philip more often would be so out there, terrible trade-craft, and much more likely to get Philip or Oleg caught.

[suomi]

39 minutes ago, kikaha said:

As soon as Renee walked into the bedroom, I thought she was a Soviet spy, whose job is to keep tabs on Stan.  Center knows a high-level FBI officer lives across the street from two of its most valuable agents.  Seems like it would be critical for them to know what's up with him, as an insurance policy, in case he has doubts/questions about the Jennings.  Renee, I thought, is that insurance policy. 

Is Renee a piece of the "protection" that Claudia told E about? Or is the time frame off for that?

[CaliCheeseSucks]

2 minutes ago, suomi said:

Is Renee a piece of the "protection" that Claudia told E about? Or is the time frame off for that?

Maybe I'm a cynic but even with my criticisms of the writers, I still have a hard time fathoming that Renee is a years-long single-woman sleeper cell to be activated in the event that Stan Beeman stops being such a dolt and will reveal herself as a KGB killer in the waning minutes of the show.

People suspected Pastor Tim was actually KGB for a while too. And the girl on the bus who recruited Paige into his ministry. And so many other people have been fingered as KGB over the seasons, and I can't think of any that panned out. 

[skippylou]

12 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Stupid kid, he should have gone straight to the FBI with that tape.  Hey show, guess what?  Not all young adults are that stupid.  Many of us would have reacted appropriately, and certainly never have met up with her again.  We aren't all Paiges and whatever his name was.

 

Maybe Jackson had a moment when his little head countermanded the big one.  She might come up with a believable explanation and he'll continue to get laid.  And she doesn't look like a stone cold killer.

[Door County Cherry]

Preview talk, even spoiler tagged preview talk, belongs in the spoiler thread, please. It has been moved there.

[Umbelina]

4 minutes ago, CaliCheeseSucks said:

Maybe I'm a cynic but even with my criticisms of the writers, I still have a hard time fathoming that Renee is a years-long single-woman sleeper cell to be activated in the event that Stan Beeman stops being such a dolt and will reveal herself as a KGB killer in the waning minutes of the show.

People suspected Pastor Tim was actually KGB for a while too. And the girl on the bus who recruited Paige into his ministry. And so many other people have been fingered as KGB over the seasons, and I can't think of any that panned out. 

Yes, the difference is? 

PHILIP suspected her.

[skippylou]

1 minute ago, Door County Cherry said:

Preview talk, even spoiler tagged preview talk, belongs in the spoiler thread, please. It has been moved there.

My apologies.

[numbnut]

1 hour ago, Erin9 said:

Jackson was such an idiot to get in the car with her. How could he be that stupid?? Seriously. He KNEW. 

IKR? This kid had me yelling at the TV ("JUST GO!! GO NOW!!") when he opened the car door to leave then stopped to ASK if he could leave. Good grief.

Edited May 17, 2018 by numbnut

[Conan Troutman]

1 hour ago, Plums said:

At this point, Renee is going to be confirmed as an undercover operative for one three letter organization or another, or this is the most epic troll job by showrunners that has ever happened. 

I have to wonder if the fact that Phillip and Elizabeth are now both conspiring to work with the pro-treaty faction will only serve as tragic dramatic irony when they're finally taken down or if it'll be the leverage they need to safely defect, because their willingness to inform on the anti-Gorbachev conspiracy will be valuable enough to the US government to ignore their litany of crimes. 

 

1 hour ago, Maire said:

If the Renee story ends up a big zero I will flip!

 

1 hour ago, Dev F said:

I don't know why so many people think this is where the Renee storyline is going. She's supposedly interviewing to work in personnel; they're not going to let her into the vault in Counterintelligence her first week on the job!

And once again her behavior was pretty suspicious. Are we meant to wonder whether her surprise over getting an interview at the FBI was because she didn't expect her inquiries to go anywhere, and she couldn't pass a background check anyway?

That background may complicate matters. If Stan tells anybody at work about his suspicions, even if it's just Aderholt during lunch, this will probably look bad for Renee so Stan will have a motivation for whatever solution he comes up with. Or it may be just enough of a delay so things can unfold as they should. 

[MisterBluxom]

When Elizabeth told Jackson that all her guys had clearance, I flashed to the seasons on Law and Order where Joe Fontana (Dennis Farina) would tell everyone, "It's OK. We're authorized."

It seemed to work much better for him.

But can anyone tell me, what was the significance of Phillip buying that new suit? Is he planning for a funeral? If so ... whose funeral is he planning to attend?

 

As far as Renee goes, she's had about 60 seconds of screen time in total. How can it make any sense to have her turn out to be an important character in the last two episode. It would make zero sense to me. But it wouldn't be the first time.

IMO, it just didn't make sense for Stan to continue to live in that house alone. Having him live next door to P&E is of critical importance to the plot. So the show runners needed some woman who would live with Stan and have a legitimate reason for that. The only thing that makes sense was for her to be his wife. He's a red, white and blue FBI agent, They couldn't have him living with someone unless they were married. But that is my opinion of Renee's importance. She is just there to provide Stan with a reason to stay in that house. This show has spent far more time showing Stan watching that house and entering that house than it has ever spent telling us who Renee is or what she is about. I have zero interest in learning more about her.

Edited May 17, 2018 by MissBluxom

[Empress Josephine]

Look at Elizabeth acting all brand new when Claudia comes revealing her shifty ways. You'd think Claudia has shown her enough times what she is about.  I had to pause the episode for a minute and enjoy my cackling. Elizabeth has the nerve to act offended and shocked by Claudia's morals when she is of a similar value system.

 

I never got why Elizabeth hated Claudia so much when they are one in the same. On the other hand, she always loved Gabriel and he was more lenient like Phillip. Yet, she never misses an opportunity to let Phillip know that his flexibility in ideology is a weakness. She could not resist that dig at the end of the episode about Phillip asking for absolution from the priest. The woman lacks self-awareness.

 

Perhaps it is a case of disliking 'your own image reflected' and also trying to bring down those who are actively trying to better themselves and get away from the things you cannot.

 

I rarely ever comment on this website, although I love reading all your guys comments every week. But I just had to come out of hiding to share my thoughts on this particular moment. Great episode. It was so intense.

[MisterBluxom]

6 minutes ago, Empress Josephine said:

I never got why Elizabeth hated Claudia so much when they are one in the same. On the other hand, she always loved Gabriel and he was more lenient like Phillip. Yet, she never misses an opportunity to let Phillip know that his flexibility in ideology is a weakness. She could not resist that dig at the end of the episode about Phillip asking for absolution from the priest. The woman lacks self-awareness.

I think the answer to your dilemma lies within your own post.

In my experience, when someone meets a person who they perceive to be exactly like themselves, the way they treat that person or react to that person provides us with a picture of how they feel about themselves  .If you were Elizabeth, how would you feel about yourself?  Good? Or not so good?

2 hours ago, ChromaKelly said:

I was getting serious suicide vibes from him. The call to Henry, visiting Stavos, then the suit.

I think you have nailed it. Well done.

[MisterBluxom]

2 hours ago, SailorGirl said:

I still think Elizabeth is going down (be it by the FBI or by cyanide pill), and Philip is going to cooperate with Stan, and Stan will work to get him immunity or reduced sentence or something. 

 

Immunity for treason? In the USA? I had to rub my eyes to make sure I was awake. I am awake and I just can't imaigine that. Unless maybe it was for one of the Trumps.

A reduced sentence for Treason? In the USA? I can't imagine that. I've always wondered what the point is when giving someone "Five life sentences".  Would Phillip be happy to have that reduced to only 2 life sentences?  I just can't see that happening.

Edited May 17, 2018 by MissBluxom

[Umbelina]

Philip couldn't be charged with Treason.  He's not a US Citizen.

He could be charged with a lot of other things, espionage, murder, etc.

[Dev F]

So does anyone have a good read on what, specifically, Elizabeth saw in the painting of Erica's she "chose"? Honestly, I've been drawn to that particular painting for weeks, since it reminds me of someone and I can't figure out who; I think it's an actress, but I'm not sure whether it's someone on the show or someone completely unrelated.

For reference, you can see the image at the end of GIF in this tweet:

I think the image was probably created specifically for the show; the real-life artist, Alyssa Monks, mentioned in an interview that "there’s a painting that I re-created that I had done in the past, and I put a little edge on it." It makes sense that they would re-create the image that Liz ends up burning rather than fuck up an existing painting. And true to that possibility, I don't see this particular painting on Monks's website, but there is a similar image from 2014 that could be the original version she re-created. I don't know, though, whether it was specifically adjusted to look more like someone we know on the show.

[jjj]

1 hour ago, Harry24 said:

  Reveal hidden contents

I’m certain it was Cary Grant too. (big fan!) But I couldn’t hear well enough to place the movie. I don’t think it was North by Northwest, but that would’ve been appropriate. 

I think it was "I Was a Male War Bride."

Good ear, that is exactly what it was!  There were five or six lines of dialogue audible. 

[Umbelina]

2 minutes ago, Dev F said:

So does anyone have a good read on what, specifically, Elizabeth saw in the painting of Erica's she "chose"? Honestly, I've been drawn to that particular painting for weeks, since it reminds me of someone and I can't figure out who; I think it's an actress, but I'm not sure whether it's someone on the show or someone completely unrelated.

For reference, you can see the image at the end of GIF in this tweet:

I think the image was probably created specifically for the show; the real-life artist, Alyssa Monks, mentioned in an interview that "there’s a painting that I re-created that I had done in the past, and I put a little edge on it." It makes sense that they would re-create the image that Liz ends up burning rather than fuck up an existing painting. And true to that possibility, I don't see this particular painting on Monks's website, but there is a similar image from 2014 that could be the original version she re-created. I don't know, though, whether it was specifically adjusted to look more like someone we know on the show.

The recapper here calls it Olympia Dukakis.  ;~)  I honestly though Elizabeth would take a small one.

[jjj]

26 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

The recapper here calls it Olympia Dukakis.  ;~)  I honestly though Elizabeth would take a small one.

I said above that this was the first painting where she understood the connection between emotion and art, after being baffled by Erika's work.

But yes, she should have taken a smaller picture if she knew she had to destroy it.  Carrying out the painting reminded me of the ending of An Unmarried Woman, with Jill Clayburgh spinning around in the street, trying to carry a large painting.  

Edited May 17, 2018 by jjj

[MisterBluxom]

47 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Philip couldn't be charged with Treason.  He's not a US Citizen.

He could be charged with a lot of other things, espionage, murder, etc.

I never thought of that. Thank you.

What do you think the odds are that he could get immunity for murder? It's not impossible. But the only people I know that have managed to do that are OC guys who have testified against their bosses with the result that many of the top OC guys spent the rest of their lives in prison.

[jjj]

I feel like we missed something about Henry in this episode -- was Philip calling because he thought he was about to be snuffed out?  This is now about two weeks after Thanksgiving (the summit was December 8-10).   With the non-completed phone call and the suit, it seemed like there needed to be a couple of sentences about something related to these scenes.  Unless it is all just meant to convince us that Philip believes he is doomed.  Imminently. 

[MisterBluxom]

2 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

Sorry, I know I'm probably overthinking this, but it still doesn't quite make sense. If he hadn't opened the box, would there have been a cover story/some excuse about how he didn't get into the program after all? 

It doesn't make sense to me either. If he realized that E was using him to spy on the State Department, why would he have ever followed up with her? Get into her car and go for a drive?

He was not a stupid person. His first reaction should have been to call the FBI - or better yet - to call a good lawyer. That would have been very much better because the FBI would have used him to suit their purposes if he had no lawyer. But they would have been forced to treat him fairly if he had a lawyer. For a clever man, he behaved in an extremely stupid way. If I learned anything from my lawyer friend, it is that when you think you need to call the police, call a lawyer first and let them represent you. It usually makes an enormous difference to the way things work out for you.

Is E that wonderful in bed? Did her sexual prowess completely mystify him and freeze his brain? That is my best attempt at an explanation.

Edited May 17, 2018 by MissBluxom

[Umbelina]

Both Philip and Elizabeth are pretty much doomed.  They have both the FBI and some of the KGB after them now.

[Cthulhudrew]

3 hours ago, mattie0808 said:

(Also -- damn, Stavos!)

My favorite part of the episode, and that's saying a lot. So much goodness packed in one episode. (Probably too much, as others have intimated). 

"I don't know whether it was Russian spying or good old fashioned American swinging you two were doing in that back room, but I never say nothing!"

Re: Phillip's suit. I had the same question "You pick now to buy an expensive new suit?" As I watched, though, I wasn't entirely sure what he was doing. Between his melancholy expression while wearing it and him nostalgically picking up a movie set during the "glory days" of Communism, I kind of got the impression he was just trying out a new suit as sort of a last hurrah to his prior capitalism success; maybe to see if he still got the same sense of satisfaction about 80s materialism as he had a few months ago. We didn't actually see him buy it.

[jjj]

10 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

It doesn't make sense to me either. If he realized that E was using him to spy on the State Department, why would he have ever followed up with her? Get into her car and go for a drive?

He was not a stupid person. His first reaction should have been to call the FBI - or better yet - to call a good lawyer. That would have been very much better because the FBI would have used him to suit their purposes if he had no lawyer. But they would have been forced to treat him fairly if he had a lawyer. For a clever man, he behaved in an extremely stupid way. If I learned anything from my lawyer friend, it is that when you think you need to call the police, call a lawyer first and let them represent you. It usually makes an enormous difference to the way things work out for you.

I think the conversation in the car was making it clear that he really was just a kid.  His first instinct was not to call the police, let alone a lawyer, but to tell Elizabeth he was going to call his father to see if this is how business is really done.  When he was approaching Elizabeth with the box, his eyes red-rimmed, and him looking around, I thought for sure that he had been nabbed by the FBI or other officials, and they were about to pick up Elizabeth.   And she was definitely getting ready to kill him in the car -- she checked the mirrors to see if anyone were around. 

[MisterBluxom]

2 minutes ago, jjj said:

I think the conversation in the car was making it clear that he really was just a kid.  His first instinct was not to call the police, let alone a lawyer, but to tell Elizabeth he was going to call his father to see if this is how business is really done.  When he was approaching Elizabeth with the box, his eyes red-rimmed, and him looking around, I thought for sure that he had been nabbed by the FBI or other officials, and they were about to pick up Elizabeth.   And she was definitely getting ready to kill him in the car -- she checked the mirrors to see if anyone were around. 

Remember in the past when they borrowed an expensive car to do a mission? They were told, "You have to get this car back in 30 minutes and it can't have a scratch on it."

That big Mercedes undoubtedly belonged to someone who was just parking it short term. If E would have kiled him in the car, it would have resulted in a terrible mess. Not only would the car be spattered with blood. But it would have all kinds of other evidence of the murder. If she had to get the car back soon, it would lead to a terrible messy situation.

I was thinking, "What is she going to do? She can't possibly kill him in this borrowed car." I suppose she could have told him he was free to go and then shot him as soon as he exited the car. But IMO, that would have been a terrible and stupid risk leading to her apprehension.

[Bannon]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I swear, Renee isnt a spy, shes some kind of alien who is here to observe our ways. She just acts so...weird. 

Really, Liz is more like Paige than she might like to think she is. Paige is painfully trusting when it comes to the people who feed into her beliefs, and so is Elizabeth, its just that Elizabeth has had the same cause for her whole life. She really does still have too much trust in Claudia, and its honestly kind of sad. This has been her whole life, and the idea that its basically been a war for a lifestyle that no longer exists is certainly a bitter pill to swallow. And she has had so many years of being told that this is right, its hard for her to see any nuance. 

Philip on the other hand, is all nuance. As Elizabeth found out, Philip isnt turning his back on the homeland, he is trying to save it. Of course, Philip is also convinced that he is about to give up his life for it, and for the future, killed by the woman he loves. Hence buying his own funeral suit, and taking some time to watch a Russian movie just to get one tiny sliver of home before he goes. Really, its pretty depressing that just popping in Solaris or something is so forbidden. They cant have anything at all from home. Philip and Elizabeth for a long time I think worked because they were so different. Elizabeth was the true believer, Philip was the more critical thinker (that might even be why they got put together) but now its hurting their foundation, because they just think differently. 

Seriously, where the hell has Oleg been? Is he just getting really into his class cover or something, and has been doing homework all day long? We saw him more last season, and he was on the other side of the planet from the rest of the cast! I need my favorite character back before we close this show up! Of course, when he isnt on screen, he isnt in danger as much, so...I dont know! 

At least point, literally everyone is going to figure out something is up with the Jennings before Stan. The mail robot will figure it out before Stan does. 

Well, look, this is a real writing error. Liz waterboarded Claudia once! Then she became totally credulous about whatever Claudia said, only to remember, "Hey, that's right....I once held this woman in such low regard that I tortured her......now I am starting to be suspicious again......I gotta remember to review my notes!"

[Umbelina]

Claudia is good, and she won Elizabeth back in several ways over the years.  It didn't suddenly happen.  I think a big step in winning her back was when she told Elizabeth that she tried to stop the recruitment of the other couple's son, and she would have never approved if she had known about the honeypot tricks that eventually made him kill his parents.

She's looked out for them both many times since, and she also is good with Paige. 

How much of beating Claudia was her inner fury at herself for her betrayal of Philip? 

Anyway, no choice now, she had to get along with her, Gabe flat out quit.  The other handler was certainly not better than Claudia.

[MrsWitter]

3 hours ago, taurusrose said:

The murder of Erica was disgusting and showed how low she can go.

3 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

That murder of Erika was pretty gruesome. Was there green paint on the brush or was that just bile? I was listening to the husband's speech as another message to Elizabeth. You and your meetings! For someone who wanted to die to escape pain I like that she still fought like a wildcat. She really never wanted to die. (Not that there's anything wrong with accepting death--I'm very pro-palliative care. But for this character, this was who she was.)

While I agree that the actual manner of death was quite graphic, I simply don't see this as another of Elizabeth's "murders" or something that was "disgusting" or "low."  If anything, I saw it as a small act of kindness (at least as far as Elizabeth can be kind)- she stroked her hair and seemed to be gentle and affectionate before killing her.  The actual method of killing her was harsh in some ways, but it was fairly quick and I don't know what other options Elizabeth had to kill her then (outside of her cyanide pill, which she was clearly not giving up). Maybe suffocation by pillow would have been more palatable? This woman was suffering and there seemed to be no going back from the morphine overdose her husband gave her. Death at this point was the kindest option. Also, Erica's seeming struggle or fight to survive seemed largely involuntary- the body tries to protect life even when the mind and/or spirit is ready to let go.

 

For those who are interested, the showrunners gave an interview to Vulture discussing the Russian movie Phillip watched and the reasoning behind Phillip purchasing a suit. I won't spoil, but since the suit has been a hot topic of conversation, I thought I'd share the link- it's not a big spoiler or anything, but it does offer some clarification:

 

http://www.vulture.com/2018/05/heres-the-story-behind-that-russian-movie-on-the-americans.html

Edited May 17, 2018 by MrsWitter

[jjj]

About the scene where Renee arrived home, and Stan is going through the old photo album, I expected Renee to find him looking at pictures of Sandra and wondering why.  And then to say "Why are you looking at pictures of your American wife?  I mean, first wife?"  (sorry to the Renee supporters out there!)