S19.E21: Guardian

[dttruman]

Fin investigates a man's claim that his sister was gang raped. (Information from info button concerning this episode).

I hope they don't have Fin going wacko, like they had Rollins the previous episode. It use to be that they had a pair of detectives investigating SVU crimes and the rest of the squad helping in the probe. Now, it looks like Fin is investigating a crime on his own just like Rollins did, with the squad helping. Will this be the format for next season?

[QueenMab]

You know, the New York State Justice system is circling the toilet. First, the State Attorney General opens investigations into the Manhattan DA's office because of the Weinstein debacle, now, the Manhattan DA is investigating the State Attorney General ( who just resigned) for claims of sexual abuse brought by several women. This show, I predict, is going to have to back away from the law/courtroom stuff because they would have to go into never-never land like this is a fantasy New York, because these sex scandals with the Manhattan DA and Attorney General are all over the news. There's no avoiding them. I see a way out by the show focusing on the detectives, the way they do their jobs, personal traumas, etc. It's getting to the point where anyone representing the Manhattan DA's office, especially prosecuting sex crimes, is going to be associated with all that by the public. I already do. How can they avoid all this sex crime crap going on? On their turf?! I don't see how they can much longer....unless, this show goes full tilt into an alternate universe New York, where none of that is happening, and concentrate on St.Benson and her "elite" squad of angels. Personally, I think it's chicken poop of MH to ignore the very situations she and her "character" are so passionate about fighting. Am I the only one who thinks Barba left JUST IN TIME??!

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, QueenMab said:

You know, the New York State Justice system is circling the toilet. First, the State Attorney General opens investigations into the Manhattan DA's office because of the Weinstein debacle, now, the Manhattan DA is investigating the State Attorney General ( who just resigned) for claims of sexual abuse brought by several women. This show, I predict, is going to have to back away from the law/courtroom stuff because they would have to go into never-never land like this is a fantasy New York, because these sex scandals with the Manhattan DA and Attorney General are all over the news. There's no avoiding them. I see a way out by the show focusing on the detectives, the way they do their jobs, personal traumas, etc. It's getting to the point where anyone representing the Manhattan DA's office, especially prosecuting sex crimes, is going to be associated with all that by the public. I already do. How can they avoid all this sex crime crap going on? On their turf?! I don't see how they can much longer....unless, this show goes full tilt into an alternate universe New York, where none of that is happening, and concentrate on St.Benson and her "elite" squad of angels. Personally, I think it's chicken poop of MH to ignore the very situations she and her "character" are so passionate about fighting. Am I the only one who thinks Barba left JUST IN TIME??!

The reason this show has ignored taking on the Weinstein scandal, which is one of the biggest SVU cases that they could rip from the headlines, is because it would make Mariska’s elitist friends look bad. It’s another reason why I find MH to be a gigantic phony. 

2 hours ago, dttruman said:

Fin investigates a man's claim that his sister was gang raped. (Information from info button concerning this episode).

I hope they don't have Fin going wacko, like they had Rollins the previous episode. It use to be that they had a pair of detectives investigating SVU crimes and the rest of the squad helping in the probe. Now, it looks like Fin is investigating a crime on his own just like Rollins did, with the squad helping. Will this be the format for next season?

It doesn’t look like Fin is investigating solo, in the sneak peek Rollins is with him at the crime scene. It looks like it will be a normal case, just more Fin heavy than usual, which is good. Fin is the most stable of the unit, he’s been around long enough and is solid enough I don’t see him going off the deep end. 

[Nisha]

Sorry to hijack this thread with my very first post here, but I am really glad I found this msg board. I thought I was the only one who found MH's "acting" terrible and over the top, her whispers grating and unrealistic and the soap opera high histrionics, melodramatic drivel beyond bearable. I watched an old L&O episode the other night where Lt. Van Buren comes out of her office to tell her squad she's been diagnosed with cancer - so much dignity, class and stoicism. A true professional. None of the teary, whisper-y,  self pitying cloying drama that MH loves to peddle out. I also could not get why and how every handsome young man who passed by Benson wanted to hook up with her. She was attractive in her younger days, not any more. If they flocked to Amanda - it's believable, but not Benson. I read an article a couple of years ago, that MH talked to the writers about a relationship for Benson; so the orders for the never ending parade of admirers must be coming from the Prima Donna herself.

Edited May 8, 2018 by Nisha

[QueenMab]

Welcome Nisha. Yeah, you're not alone. What you said. NYC where you can't swing a cat without hitting a beautiful, YOUNG woman. But Benson....beyond compare (ugh). FYI.....I have accused MH of rapidly morphing into Steven Seagal for a couple of years now. That's how I frequently refer to her. LOL.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, Nisha said:

Sorry to hijack this thread with my very first post here, but I am really glad I found this msg board. I thought I was the only one who found MH's "acting" terrible and over the top, her whispers grating and unrealistic and the soap opera high histrionics, melodramatic drivel beyond bearable. I watched an old L&O episode the other night where Lt. Van Buren comes out of her office to tell her squad she's been diagnosed with cancer - so much dignity, class and stoicism. A true professional. None of the teary, whisper-y,  self pitying cloying drama that MH loves to peddle out. I also could not get why and how every handsome young man who passed by Benson wanted to hook up with her. She was attractive in her younger days, not any more. If they flocked to Amanda - it's believable, but not Benson. I read an article a couple of years ago, that MH talked to the writers about a relationship for Benson; so the orders for the never ending parade of admirers must be coming from the Prima Dona herself.

Welcome to the forum, you will find many like minded people here who are sick of Mariska and her huge ego ruining the show. I’m sick of the over focus on Benson, her brat and her ridiculous romances, as well as Mariska’s over dramatic acting and facial expressions. 

I couldn’t agree more about the differences between Van Buren and Benson. Van Buren was a professional and an awesome LT, Benson is a self absorbed, unprofessional joke. This was really shown in her introduction to Stone, when she refused to shake his hand and told him “I hope you suck”. What laughable and juvenile behavior from a LT, could you imagine Van Buren doing anything like that?

[Nisha]

1 hour ago, QueenMab said:

Welcome Nisha. Yeah, you're not alone. What you said. NYC where you can't swing a cat without hitting a beautiful, YOUNG woman. But Benson....beyond compare (ugh). FYI.....I have accused MH of rapidly morphing into Steven Seagal for a couple of years now. That's how I frequently refer to her. LOL.

Thanks. In fact I found this message board by googling "Mariska Hargitay over-rated" as I just could not believe how she keeps getting nominated Emmy after Emmy. I also always found SVU very melodramatic compared to the original L&O which just *hinted* at personal issues - Briscoe's drinking problem, Green's gambling addiction, McCoys's serial relationships with his Assts. But never right inside their houses and bedrooms like with Stabler or Benson. And after MH became exec producer, this show has just jumped the shark/ whale/ porpoise and then some.

[QueenMab]

Nisha....it's a soap opera. A Primetime Soap Opera. I've said it before....NYC is Pine Valley and Benson is Erica Kane. If there is a much younger, good looking man on the show, Benson is the only one who gets to work closely with him ....and pour enough scotch down his throat to bang him into submission and unquestioned adoration of her. Now that you know and can come to accept that, you can tune in to see who Benson is going to shtup next, and who the unethical trainwreck of the week is! Surely, you aren't expecting a procedural police drama...you sound too savvy for that bit of naivety. :) We play drinking games. Every time she whispers in her phone sex worker voice, every time she hits us with another silent movie actress face expression ( she has a million of 'em) or shakes her mega hooters in the ADA's face and snarls "you know it's the right thing to do", we take a chug. That way, we haven't totally wasted an hour watching "All My Children". Your among friends. :)

[WendyCR72]

I think Olivia is fine - when she is not in charge. Too late now, but the show should have had an outsider come in as SVU head. Maybe Alex Eames? (What can I say, I like Alex - more than Olivia). But then I think of the hackneyed writing now, and I'm glad that Eames and anyone else I like are far away from this current squad. Minus Finn.

[CelticBlackCat]

Welcome Nisha!  You're among like-minded friends here.  We call it the Olivia Benson Hour and Lt Benson is Saint Benson and Saint Olivia.  Benoah is Mommy of The Year and her brat, and BenStone is the newest incarnation of Liv's love life, in that it looks like she's whipping Stone like she did Barba and many others who were left in her wake.

[dttruman]

Nisha, we do lay some heavy criticism on the Benson character and almost all of it is from objective opinions. We do credit her with a lot of praise, but that was from the early years of SVU. Someone mentioned the "soap opera" term and could not have chosen a better format description. When the executive producers chose to focus more on the personal and professional life of Olivia Benson instead of the investigations of the crimes concerning special victims, it showed the quality and ratings of the series take a dive. We all hoped (and still do today) that they would return to the old format, but they have made it very difficult because of the major cuts in cast members who were so vital in presenting realistic investigations.

[dttruman]

12 hours ago, QueenMab said:

You know, the New York State Justice system is circling the toilet. First, the State Attorney General opens investigations into the Manhattan DA's office because of the Weinstein debacle, now, the Manhattan DA is investigating the State Attorney General ( who just resigned) for claims of sexual abuse brought by several women. This show, I predict, is going to have to back away from the law/courtroom stuff because they would have to go into never-never land like this is a fantasy New York, because these sex scandals with the Manhattan DA and Attorney General are all over the news. There's no avoiding them. I see a way out by the show focusing on the detectives, the way they do their jobs, personal traumas, etc. It's getting to the point where anyone representing the Manhattan DA's office, especially prosecuting sex crimes, is going to be associated with all that by the public. I already do. How can they avoid all this sex crime crap going on? On their turf?! I don't see how they can much longer....unless, this show goes full tilt into an alternate universe New York, where none of that is happening, and concentrate on St.Benson and her "elite" squad of angels. Personally, I think it's chicken poop of MH to ignore the very situations she and her "character" are so passionate about fighting. Am I the only one who thinks Barba left JUST IN TIME??!

I wonder if we will see a  lot of episodes (for next season) dealing with this fallout? Will we see McCoy being appointed the new AG? Will Benson be involved in a coverup or investigate the old AG?

[Xeliou66]

They will not rip from the headlines concerning NY’s AG who just resigned, probably because he was one of the activists against sexual harassment in the MeToo movement (what a phony hypocrite!) and they don’t want to make anyone that’s possibly in Mariska’s circle look bad. That’s absolutely why they didn’t do the Weinstein story, even though it’s a huge headline, because it would make Hollywood elitists look bad. 

[ForeverAlone]

If the show replaced McCoy with some other fictional character, it would actually be rather interesting to see the real world law enforcement troubles play out as a ripped from the headlines multiple story arc (because I don't want to see McCoy being painted as dirty or corrupt). I mean, we have the real world Manhattan DA under investigation by the State AG for how he handled (or didn't handle) a high profile sexual assault case. Then the State AG turns out to be his own sex pest, with the initial investigation of him going to be given to the Manhattan DA. Of course, that has now changed so another county's DA is investigating the AG, while the AG office is still investigating the Manhattan DA. Honestly, this could be a VERY interesting story (though I'd prefer it if it was investigated by Rafael, just because l like him more than Peter). But alas, this is likely to be one juicy, ripped from the headlines story that won't be made into a SVU episode. Of course I think the current writing team would screw it up, but I bet Warren could have done something interesting with it. 

[WendyCR72]

While the franchise has used real politicians on the shows, they also mixed them with fake. I believe all the governors were fake. So it's a crap shoot. I know the Mothership had Giuliani on to introduce Lewin, Biden was on SVU, and Senator Charles Schumer appeared on CI. But other state senators and aforementioned governors? Total fiction.

[Xeliou66]

5 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

While the franchise has used real politicians on the shows, they also mixed them with fake. I believe all the governors were fake. So it's a crap shoot. I know the Mothership had Giuliani on to introduce Lewin, Biden was on SVU, and Senator Charles Schumer appeared on CI. But other state senators and aforementioned governors? Total fiction.

The only governor that was fake was Shalvoy, who was a stand in for Spitzer. Other than that all the politicians have been real, they referenced Governor Pataki several times after he reinstated the death penalty in NY, and don’t forget Bloomberg appeared as himself as well, twice on the mothership. They have had several fictional state senators and local politicians, but all major figures have been real aside from Shalvoy. 

[wknt3]

6 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

While the franchise has used real politicians on the shows, they also mixed them with fake. I believe all the governors were fake. So it's a crap shoot. I know the Mothership had Giuliani on to introduce Lewin, Biden was on SVU, and Senator Charles Schumer appeared on CI. But other state senators and aforementioned governors? Total fiction.

 

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

The only governor that was fake was Shalvoy, who was a stand in for Spitzer. Other than that all the politicians have been real, they referenced Governor Pataki several times after he reinstated the death penalty in NY, and don’t forget Bloomberg appeared as himself as well, twice on the mothership. They have had several fictional state senators and local politicians, but all major figures have been real aside from Shalvoy. 

 

The general rule for the franchise has always seemed to be that if it is a reference to a real life policy or a cameo they use real life politicians and public figues. If they are portraying them as a perp or a victim ,engaging in cynical political maneuvering, or in an extensive role they get an actor and/or use fictional names, even if it is clear they are "ripped from the headlines" such as Shalvoy for Spitzer or Arnie MacLaren for Bernie Kerik. Or all of the city council members, judges, city officials, congressional candidates, ex-Senators, etc. that have gotten dragged into investigations throughout L&O, SVU, and CI over the years.

[Nisha]

12 hours ago, CelticBlackCat said:

Welcome Nisha!  You're among like-minded friends here.  We call it the Olivia Benson Hour and Lt Benson is Saint Benson and Saint Olivia.  Benoah is Mommy of The Year and her brat, and BenStone is the newest incarnation of Liv's love life, in that it looks like she's whipping Stone like she did Barba and many others who were left in her wake.

Thanks all for the nice welcome! I hope to God she and Stone are not an item. This is  getting ridiculous. The L and O original ADAs were stunning - Abby, Jamie Ross, Serena. Connie, but they didn't have every male within spitting distance falling all over them. Which would have been more palatable.

[WendyCR72]

7 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

The only governor that was fake was Shalvoy, who was a stand in for Spitzer. Other than that all the politicians have been real, they referenced Governor Pataki several times after he reinstated the death penalty in NY, and don’t forget Bloomberg appeared as himself as well, twice on the mothership. They have had several fictional state senators and local politicians, but all major figures have been real aside from Shalvoy. 

No, there was also a fake governor on CI in S1's "The Pardoner's Tale". So, like I said, real politicians mixed with not real. No big deal. Just saying the chances of addressing Schneiderman is a crap shoot because of it.

[ForeverAlone]

Of course the show would never use real names because they would likely get sued, but if the show wanted to, they could still do the same story- only with fictional names for the characters. That would be delightfully ballsy if they went there, because the real world NY law enforcement is currently providing a wealth of material for provocative stories.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

On 5/8/2018 at 3:21 PM, QueenMab said:

Nisha....it's a soap opera. A Primetime Soap Opera. I've said it before....NYC is Pine Valley and Benson is Erica Kane. If there is a much younger, good looking man on the show, Benson is the only one who gets to work closely with him ....and pour enough scotch down his throat to bang him into submission and unquestioned adoration of her. Now that you know and can come to accept that, you can tune in to see who Benson is going to shtup next, and who the unethical trainwreck of the week is! Surely, you aren't expecting a procedural police drama...you sound too savvy for that bit of naivety. :) We play drinking games. Every time she whispers in her phone sex worker voice, every time she hits us with another silent movie actress face expression ( she has a million of 'em) or shakes her mega hooters in the ADA's face and snarls "you know it's the right thing to do", we take a chug. That way, we haven't totally wasted an hour watching "All My Children". Your among friends. :)

The AMC reference cracks me up.

 

Kelly Giddish's old stomping ground.

[wknt3]

The Good:
Fin! The promo monkeys weren't lying when they promised us a Fin heavy episode. It was a nice mix too, both snark and drama and we got to see him both in the group and in one on one scenes with just about everyone. Nothing groundbreaking, but a good reminder of what can be when both Ice and the writers can do when they put their mind to it.
The guest cast. It especially liked George Wallace although at first I thought grandma said she had hired Ron Carver and I thought maybe Chernuchin had gotten Courtney B Vance to come back to the franchise.
It was nice to see Stone asserting his authority over the prosecutorial decisions. I was a bit afraid after he cut off Benson and took charge that he was going to start shooting and get people killed, but I guess he's still the showrunner's pet.
A very well structured plot. Another excellent teaser, and an investigation that unfolded over the course of the show naturally with nobody being an idiot just for a twist. Also the moral ambiguity and anguish seemed genuine and was there from the beginning. This was a good script and a great one compared to many this season.
Another episode where Benson didn't annoy met too much. Except for being in the hospital for no good reason, she was again acting more like a hands on CO than someone trying to win the war on crime (or at least sexually based offenses) single handedly.

The Bad:
They still haven't figured out how to write a courtroom scene without at least one moment of OTT WTF destruction of the suspension of disbelief. Like many of the better episodes this season there is some really good stuff on the legal side, but then there is just random BS like bringing in mom's victim or having people just wander into the courtroom and start screaming in front of the bench.
They have dialed it back but there still seems to be an attempt to make BenStone a thing.
WTH was up with the staging of the scene at the end? I know it's hard working with kids and animals, but was that really the best take? Just hilariously bad and clear that the kid was not interacting with Ice-T at all. I mean is it really that hard to make it look he picked up the Skype and then loop in the audio? If you are going to do the sappy ending at least do it right.

Overall this was much better than last week. And while I have problems with parts of it it was a solid episode that lived up to it's potential for the most part. I won't turn this off right away if it comes on USA while I'm cleaning and it gives me hope that things are still moving in the right direction and maybe next year will be the kind of "ending on a high note" season that the mothership had with S18-20 or CI had with S10.
 

[dttruman]

This was a good episode that involved Fin with a good plot and a ending that wasn't obvious, but it did have an inconsistency here and there. Some of Fin's best work was not shown in the story. When he brought in Malik's associate and then later on, when he brought in that witness to discredit Malik's mother. I wish they would have expanded on them.

When the three boys' attorney Ron Wright wanted the rape charges dropped (and rightly so, but they should still be tried for having sex with a prostitute). He then has his daughter Regina defend Malik for being his sister's pimp. It seemed like he wasn't looking for justice, he just wanted the charges dropped on everybody. I was scratching my head on that one.

At the end I thought it would be Fin giving her those couple of pep-talk speeches. But as we all know Benson has to have her limelight.

[Xeliou66]

One of the season’s best episodes. A very intriguing plot with a lot of Fin. I liked how the case wasn’t what it appeared to be at first and turned out to be something very different and required a lot of detective work to get to the bottom of it, all of SVU was used nicely and the storyline was good from start to finish. 

It’s always great to get a Fin heavy episode, he was awesome as always, he deserves to take center stage more. Nice to see his grandson at the end as well, I’m glad we finally found out about Ken and Alejandro’s baby and saw them again after they went unreferenced in season 18, and it’s nice that one SVU member has a stable family now. 

Stone has improved the legal side of SVU remarkably, it is very nice to see an ADA doing things without consulting St Olivia first and standing up to Benson when she tries to push him around. He’s been a great addition, and it’s nice that Benson is no longer making decisions for the DA’s office.

I thought they said Ron Carver as well and it made me think he was returning as a defense lawyer, although I would’ve heard something in advance, I did like this lawyer though but I found it interesting how his daughter represented Malik after he represented the other 3.  

I liked seeing Carmen, the secretary at the DA’s office, again. 

I did wish Fin had been the one to speak to Tiana at the end, but MH had to get her preachy St Olivia moment in, she obviously gets off on those while everyone else hates them. That was the weakest part of the episode. 

One of the season’s best episodes overall though. 

[MrsRafaelBarba]

It was nice seeing Ami Brabson return as a Judge Blake

 

Andre Braugher's RL wife, wish she would work more often.

[Zoe]

Ice T was looking a lot livelier this episode. He'd been in grampa mode lately, lol

I thought this was pretty solid all around.

[mommalib]

Definitely one of the best episodes of the season. Nice flow, not too heavy handed and more Ice-T. Only annoyance was Benson talking too the girl at the end that should have been Fin. Does anybody else feel that Fin is better suited to be the head of the squad?

[QueenMab]

Got a problem with a guy who pimped out his 14 year old sister and his mama so they could make rent, sitting there with diamond studs in both ears that go for around $4 - 5 thousand dollars. No StoneBen wining and dining. Fin actually being "street". Not too bad but still find it hard to watch MH. 

[Nisha]

Have recorded it, not yet watched it, but caught the very end, where Fin skype calls his cute little grandson. How nice to see an episode end with someone other than Benson reading to Noah or baby talking to him pulling one of her super mom phony facial expressions.

[slowpoked]

So I was genuinely confused by this case. What is the defense's case for proving Malik's innocence? That Tiana was going along with it anyway and wasn't being forced by Malik? But because she's still not legally an adult, doesn't that negate her "consent" anyway? Kind of like statutory rape, doesn't matter that the child is ok with the relationship - the fact that she's a child means she cannot legally consent. I thought that would be a similar situation here.

The three boys should at least have been charged with solicitation, no? It's not just a "mistake". 

Tiana's testimony at the witness stand though is heartbreaking. The cycle of poverty just really goes on and on, and people just succumb to it because they see no other way out. I get Fin's "you pick your life's path" mantra, but sometimes, to the worst of them, life's path does pick you.

Like most of you, I like that this is a Fin-centric episode. But the reason I love it more is because Fin/Ice-T don't overact when the focus is on them, like Benson. He just delivers his lines Ice-T style and doesn't take.it.personally. When Fin delivered the lines "He's the worst kind of predator, he betrays his own....", it was just delivered matter-of-factly, nothing of that sensational over-whisper and pained face like Benson does. Wish we have more episodes like this. 

Edited May 10, 2018 by slowpoked

[Zoe]

13 hours ago, dttruman said:

At the end I thought it would be Fin giving her those couple of pep-talk speeches. But as we all know Benson has to have her limelight.

 

12 hours ago, mommalib said:

Only annoyance was Benson talking too the girl at the end that should have been Fin.

I was okay with him not being the one at the end.  One of the things that made me chuckle was when she propositioned him at the courthouse and he put some distance and said he'd get a patrol car rather than take her to ACS himself.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, slowpoked said:

So I was genuinely confused by this case. 

I was too, and also confused about what story the writers were telling.
Like, Malik didn't personify evil sociopathic (can't empathize) manipulator; was he supposed to?
Or was the point that he, his Mom, and his sister were being manipulated by the Invisible Hand of economics?

 

51 minutes ago, Zoe said:

One of the things that made me chuckle was when she propositioned him at the courthouse and he put some distance and said he'd get a patrol car rather than take her to ACS himself.

And I breathed a sigh of relief.

 

Anyway, is there any chance that Rachel Hilson (Tiana) will get an Emmy for Guest Star in a Drama?

[atlantaloves]

I loved this episode as well guys, know why, ICE FUCKING TEA.....I love him so much. The story not so much, but ahhhhhhh I adore him in Daddy and Grand Daddy mode. I too am sick of Saint Olivia, and so is everyone I know who use to love this show.

[Vicky8675309]

I'm confused about the "hot shot"----injection of illegal drugs with the intent to kill.  Is that considered premeditated murder and in this case would it be considered attempted premeditated murder? Does a 15 year plea deal for that and the other crimes the guy committed seem justified? Out of a 15 year sentence, how many years will he actually serve (if this was real).

[dttruman]

2 hours ago, slowpoked said:

The three boys should at least have been charged with solicitation, no? It's not just a "mistake". 

You pointed out one of the weak points I noticed also. They completely glazed over that one of the boys stole his mother's ring and pawned it for their escapade. I wish they would have shown more repercussions for this. All the grandmother did was mention that they would talk about this later.

[dttruman]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

2 hours ago, Zoe said:

One of the things that made me chuckle was when she propositioned him at the courthouse and he put some distance and said he'd get a patrol car rather than take her to ACS himself.

And I breathed a sigh of relief.

I like how Ice-T rebuffed her, but I wish he had done it in a way Ed Green (from Law&Order) did it. Some girl tried to sweet talk him into helping her. She had a lot of people wrap around her finger. I can't think of the episode, but "Senor Huevos" is the name of her not so smart friend, that stands out to me.

[ForeverAlone]

I liked this episode. It felt like a classic era SVU episode. Not the classic era of WTF twists, but instead a solid episode with a variety of investigation leads that eventually lead to the truth. I wasn't expecting where it went, but I enjoyed it.It was good to see Fin have something more to do than normal, and the amount of Olivia was in the tolerable level rather than the overwhelming amount in the first half of the season. 

 I didn't expect that Malik was pimping out his sister AND his mother. Yikes, wasn't expecting that one. I didn't find Malik to be sympathetic in the slightest, and I felt like the episode was trying to push us to feel some sort of sympathy for him. The dude was an asshole, no matter how much he claimed to love his family. Just because he was abused by his father doesn't give him license to abuse others. 

[Everleigh]

A Fin-centric episode is always a nice change of pace but I was so distracted by Ice T's terrible acting in this one that I couldn't take the storyline seriously. He just sort of yells his lines..... but whatever, I don't think anyone's watching for Ice T's dramatic performance. Decent enough episode. 

[Nisha]

Benson squeezed all her over-the-top histrionics into those few mins she had in the Hospital with Tiana. The way she crouched with her face inches from that poor girl's face reminded me of Detective Goren in CI, how he would pull those mind games, hovering over the defendants when he interrogated them.  But that came naturally to Vincent D'Onofrio who portrayed the eccentric, highly intelligent, out of the box detective very well.

Stone seemed to have taken some acting (?) lessons from MH in his courtroom scene, with the tremulous voice,  glistening eyes etc. Sheesh, next these guys will break into an Aria. Long for the understated, realistic and gritty performances by Sam Waterston, Jerry Orbach, Epatha Merkerson, etc.

Edited May 11, 2018 by Nisha

[gryphon]

I realized about halfway through that I was just watching for Ice T.   "Back at ya, Liv."  hee  

He fills my heart.  "Tell your dads I'm coming over."  Awww.   

[CelticBlackCat]

On 5/10/2018 at 12:24 PM, dttruman said:

You pointed out one of the weak points I noticed also. They completely glazed over that one of the boys stole his mother's ring and pawned it for their escapade. I wish they would have shown more repercussions for this. All the grandmother did was mention that they would talk about this later.

I think Grandma would have had to press theft charges.  I'm OK with DA not having to prosecute the boy for stealing the ring.  I think Grandma can get it back and make her grandson pay for it, although with their finances, I don't know how.

[CelticBlackCat]

What did I just watch?  A real L&O:SVU episode?  Like old school?  This is the best this season so far.

Ice-T needs his own show.  I vote for Law & Order: Fin.

He's a sergeant now, can't he get his own squad and do his CO thing and his street thing?

[DaynaPhile]

So we are to assume that Rollins just totally got over the fact that she killed her victim from the last episode? I can’t believe that everything is peachy with her after that bomb Liv dropped on her. 

[Joe Hellandback]

The Good; nice that Benson actually has to make a tough decision (about referring the brother and sister to the Social Services) and actually makes the wrong choice. Also like the scene at the end where we see a little of Finn's family life.

The Bad; Finn once more insults the witness whilst Benson and Rawlins question the victim whilst she is under the influence of alcohol and heroin? Why doesn't Carisi take his badge off before approaching the suspects so they don't run? Also never close the door when searching the flat and surely the brother would be ruled an unfit guardian through his drug addiction alone. Also how can the father represent the suspects and the daughter the victim, how does that work?

All told, not a bad ep, you genuinely couldn't see some of the twists coming; 7/10 

[TV Diva Queen]

On 5/9/2018 at 8:21 AM, Nisha said:

Thanks all for the nice welcome! I hope to God she and Stone are not an item. This is  getting ridiculous. The L and O original ADAs were stunning - Abby, Jamie Ross, Serena. Connie, but they didn't have every male within spitting distance falling all over them. Which would have been more palatable.

Or female....because, you know, she's a lesbian.  (I still can't believe she uttered those words) 

On 5/11/2018 at 2:52 PM, gryphon said:

I realized about halfway through that I was just watching for Ice T.   "Back at ya, Liv."  hee  

He fills my heart.  "Tell your dads I'm coming over."  Awww.   

....and he brings pizza.  I heart Fin

[Tdoc72]

On 5/9/2018 at 7:02 PM, ForeverAlone said:

Of course the show would never use real names because they would likely get sued, but if the show wanted to, they could still do the same story- only with fictional names for the characters. That would be delightfully ballsy if they went there, because the real world NY law enforcement is currently providing a wealth of material for provocative stories.

Unless it’s Trump!  Because they have a Trump-esque episode sitting on a shelf somewhere that they won’t air. Originally it was supposed to air before the election, then they decided to postpone it until after. When he won, it got pulled completely. I’m dying to see it, mainly because Gary Cole is playing the politician. I love him and want to see what he’d do with that role. #bucketlist 

[ForeverAlone]

Depending on how you feel about Trump, I don't know if you actually want to see that episode. Based on everything that has been reported about that episode, it seems that the Trump-like character didn't actually rape anyone and was set up for political purposes. Considering that episode would have aired after the Access Hollywood tape was published, it would have been a very awkward episode to air. 

[Nisha]

On 5/22/2018 at 11:38 AM, TV Diva Queen said:

Or female....because, you know, she's a lesbian.  (I still can't believe she uttered those words) 

....and he brings pizza.  I heart Fin

hehehe, i burst out laughing when Serena said that in her last episode on L&O. She was a terrible actress and that line was so out there, just for shock value. What was Arthur Branch gonna do? Say "yes, I am firing you cos I am a raging hom**ophobe and you are gay?" - how stupid was that. Totally unnecessary.  She could have just been fired for incompetence, Why should ALL the ADAs look like super models AND also be super brilliant? No reason they could not have portrayed a plain Jane ADA who was super sharp for once in L&O.

[TV Diva Queen]

25 minutes ago, Nisha said:

hehehe, i burst out laughing when Serena said that in her last episode on L&O. She was a terrible actress and that line was so out there, just for shock value. What was Arthur Branch gonna do? Say "yes, I am firing you cos I am a raging hom**ophobe and you are gay?" - how stupid was that. Totally unnecessary.  She could have just been fired for incompetence, Why should ALL the ADAs look like super models AND also be super brilliant? No reason they could not have portrayed a plain Jane ADA who was super sharp for once in L&O.

Right? and us ladies get to oogle Ben Stone, ,McCoy and Branch.  Cutter wasn't horrific... 

[Nisha]

17 minutes ago, TV Diva Queen said:

Right? and us ladies get to oogle Ben Stone, ,McCoy and Branch.  Cutter wasn't horrific... 

I had a crush on the younger McCoy.