S08.E19: Not to Stir the Pot, But...

[BitterApple]

Regarding Javi and his messy self, does anyone find it weird that he'd want to date someone whose vagina is barely healed from birthing another man's baby? I know plenty of people who've dated/married people with kids from previous relationships, but usually the kids are a little older. If a guy asked me out and told me he had a three-month old, I'd be like yeah, no, nope, sorry. I guess it's just normal to this crowd because they hook-up, breed and break-up on a continuous cycle, but I couldn't do it. 

[MaddyMaeboxerbabe]

I was actually thinking back to more than 30 years ago when I had a toddler and newborn.  I can’t imagine having the time, desire and energy to be chasing a new guy!

[FairyDusted]

2 hours ago, CaliforniaLove said:

The show? Not serious, and I can watch it with little to no emotional investment. The show giving a public platform to hateful, bigoted, violent pieces of shit? Yeah, that gets me a little worked up, but to each their own. 

While I like your post and respect everyone single word is I have an exception. I have emotional investment to a certain extent with the children of the show. I mean we saw them pop out and grow up. The messy is most of the parents but these children are not actors. This is their lives and I can't ignore that. Example: Ali's Wheelchair neglect Janyell's kids cuz well those two maniacs and on.  

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

Regarding Javi and his messy self, does anyone find it weird that he'd want to date someone whose vagina is barely healed from birthing another man's baby? I know plenty of people who've dated/married people with kids from previous relationships, but usually the kids are a little older. If a guy asked me out and told me he had a three-month old, I'd be like yeah, no, nope, sorry. I guess it's just normal to this crowd because they hook-up, breed and break-up on a continuous cycle, but I couldn't do it. 

Prime example of Too Soon! LOL 

1 hour ago, MaddyMaeboxerbabe said:

I was actually thinking back to more than 30 years ago when I had a toddler and newborn.  I can’t imagine having the time, desire and energy to be chasing a new guy!

BINGO!

Edited May 15, 2018 by FairyDusted
what did I do

[BARISTA]

23 hours ago, Kazu said:

The sociopaths and abusers receiving empathy and sympathy is stomach-turning.

Thank you @ghoulina for a well-written and spot on post.

Nobody is receiving sympathy. Yes I am generally quite empathetic, I'm also a criminal defense lawyer so I guess I'm wired to looking for the good in dysfunctional people, We are all only human.. Sorry not sorry

[ReadMeLattice]

9 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Regarding Javi and his messy self, does anyone find it weird that he'd want to date someone whose vagina is barely healed from birthing another man's baby? I know plenty of people who've dated/married people with kids from previous relationships, but usually the kids are a little older. If a guy asked me out and told me he had a three-month old, I'd be like yeah, no, nope, sorry. I guess it's just normal to this crowd because they hook-up, breed and break-up on a continuous cycle, but I couldn't do it. 

Javi is honestly showing himself to be just as immature as the other hos on this show. Dude throws himself into relationships like a horny, lovestruck 16 year old. Grow up!

He reminds me of the people who are like "oh I know he/she is still married, but let's move in together anyway"/"I know I'm going through a messy divorce and he/she is a barely-recovering drug addict, but maybe we're soulllmatess." Can't people just chill and go on some casual dates and get to know each other?! Would it be an absolute crime to go to dinner with someone one night and to the movies the next week with someone else and not declare your intent to impregnate/marry them?

Edited May 16, 2018 by Lm2162

[SPLAIN]

10 hours ago, FairyDusted said:

While I like your post and respect everyone single word is I have an exception. I have emotional investment to a certain extent with the children of the show. I mean we saw them pop out and grow up. The messy is most of the parents but these children are not actors. This is their lives and I can't ignore that. Example: Ali's Wheelchair neglect Janyell's kids cuz well those two maniacs and on.  

Prime example of Too Soon! LOL 

BINGO!

You speak for all of us. 

The empathy and sympathy for the children runs deep. We all have mentioned over the seasons how we have given these pricks the benefit of the doubt time and time again. When somebody shows you who they are, believe them. These pricks continue to show us who they are and what they are. The children continue to be screwed over and it is absolutely disgusting. 

12 hours ago, CaliforniaLove said:

The show? Not serious, and I can watch it with little to no emotional investment. The show giving a public platform to hateful, bigoted, violent pieces of shit? Yeah, that gets me a little worked up, but to each their own. 

ITA. 

I get worked up over the kids and how they are being affected.

[NannyBails]

8 hours ago, SPLAIN said:

 

I get worked up over the kids and how they are being affected.

And the animals who are being abused/neglected. 

[Scarlett45]

On 5/15/2018 at 11:24 AM, BitterApple said:

Regarding Javi and his messy self, does anyone find it weird that he'd want to date someone whose vagina is barely healed from birthing another man's baby? I know plenty of people who've dated/married people with kids from previous relationships, but usually the kids are a little older. If a guy asked me out and told me he had a three-month old, I'd be like yeah, no, nope, sorry. I guess it's just normal to this crowd because they hook-up, breed and break-up on a continuous cycle, but I couldn't do it. 

I had a guy try to date me who had a four month old. Four months!! Like no. 

[Kazu]

On 5/16/2018 at 5:30 AM, NannyBails said:

And the animals who are being abused/neglected. 

And the people, like Gary, Doris, and particularly Barb, who continue to get shitted on by these entitled and contemptible people.

When I see any effort, and I mean CONTINUOUS EFFORT being made by these fucktards to better their lives and stop sitting on their pile of manure while acting like their shit don't stink, I will go back to having a glimmer of hope for them and wishing them the best. My sympathy went out the window long ago. Whatever sympathy I have will go to those who deserve it.

[MargeGunderson]

13 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I had a guy try to date me who had a four month old. Four months!! Like no. 

I guess you should be glad he waited until after the birth? Ugh, nopeity nope nope no. 

[guilfoyleatpp]

14 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I had a guy try to date me who had a four month old. Four months!! Like no. 

Jenelle and Amber BOTH would have been all over that. SOULLLLMATES!!!!

[BitterApple]

14 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I had a guy try to date me who had a four month old. Four months!! Like no. 

Wow, did he give you any explanation? There's really no way for a guy to look good in that situation. If the baby was a product of a failing marriage or long term relationship, he's a dick for abandoning his family and leaving his ex holding the bag; and if the baby was the result of a casual hook-up, then he's a moron who's completely irresponsible with regards to his sexual health. I guess it takes all kinds to make the world go round, right?

Edited May 17, 2018 by BitterApple

[starfire]

On ‎5‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 7:25 PM, geauxaway said:

This whole last name change hits close to home, as I am about to adopt my foster son who is about the same age as Aubree.  So we have been having discussions about his name change and he is most worried about the kids at school wondering why he has a different last name.  Bottom line, I said do you know ANY of your classmates last names?  No one is going to notice, baby.  But he still has very valid worries over it.  Our therapist (angel that walks this earth) and I have been working with him on it.   It’s hard for kids in that age to understand all the dynamics on top of scrutiny from their classmates.  I can’t imagine it’s any easier for Aubree who is on TV.  I do like Chelsea and think she is a great mom and runs a great house, but she needs to step up and be strong for Aubree.  I wish for any of these kids to have the therapy we (in our hous) have.  It would make a lot of difference in the long run.  No matter how great a home life, these kids all come from mixed parental households (which is great, that’s life).  But a little help never hurts!

I knew pretty much all my classmates last names when I was in elementary school, middle school, etc. Teachers used last names, there are yearbooks, many families lived in the neighborhood so we knew their names, and so on. I would've noticed if a 1st grade, 4th grade (or any grade) classmate all of a sudden changed their last name. So thinking nobody is going to notice a name change is highly unrealistic to me. Hopefully the transition will go well for your son.

[Scarlett45]

On 5/17/2018 at 11:55 AM, guilfoyleatpp said:

Jenelle and Amber BOTH would have been all over that. SOULLLLMATES!!!!

Ha yup!!

On 5/17/2018 at 12:16 PM, BitterApple said:

Wow, did he give you any explanation? There's really no way for a guy to look good in that situation. If the baby was a product of a failing marriage or long term relationship, he's a dick for abandoning his family and leaving his ex holding the bag; and if the baby was the result of a casual hook-up, then he's a moron who's completely irresponsible with regards to his sexual health. I guess it takes all kinds to make the world go round, right?

 

At first I thought he said his daughter was 4years old (for the record I do not like to date or have sex with men with kids- nothing against people who procreate but I am not interested, as a rule. Now once I’m a bit older and people have teenage or adult children that’s different but kids not in HS? No!), and he said NO she was four MONTHS and showed me pictures of a tiny baby with him in his cap and gown when he graduated from Grad school earlier that year. 

No explanation given, just that he loved being a Dad and loved her so much (he had previously stated he’d never been married, but nothing else about the Mom). I ended the date as usual and when he asked me out again I said no. 

Four months. I was floored. 

PS the mom did not die in childbirth or shortly afterwards.....just wanted to make that clear. 

I guess for the guy it’s nothing to move on so quickly. 1. They don’t have the physical aspect of pregnancy and labor, 2. Or the demands of being a full time caregiver most of the time. For a guy in that situation whatever he had with the mom may have been over by the time the sun rose. But no there’s no way for him to look good in that situation AT ALL. Even if they were never together, BOTH made the choice to have unprotected sex and she wanted to have the baby, it still looks awful. Like a Chris and Kailyn situation (although this guy was almost a decade older) but I wouldn’t touch a Chris type, hence why we didn’t go out again. 

Edited May 20, 2018 by Scarlett45
Expanding on my point of view.

[mamadrama]

On 5/17/2018 at 2:23 PM, starfire said:

I knew pretty much all my classmates last names when I was in elementary school, middle school, etc. Teachers used last names, there are yearbooks, many families lived in the neighborhood so we knew their names, and so on. I would've noticed if a 1st grade, 4th grade (or any grade) classmate all of a sudden changed their last name. So thinking nobody is going to notice a name change is highly unrealistic to me. Hopefully the transition will go well for your son.

Even now, 30+ years later, I can still remember the first and last names of many of the kids I went to elementary school with. High school and middle school? Not so much. Elementary? Yes. Back then names made a BIG impression, especially since teachers used them so much and we were often grouped in alphabetical order. 

[Eater of Worlds]

On 5/9/2018 at 8:02 AM, BARISTA said:

I do accept that it might just be the case that any disagreements/words they have are simply not caught on camera. And call me crazy but If she just expressed herself every once in a while, say to her friend Chelsey Grace even casually - "gosh Cole was being so annoying last night", "Cole never emptied the dishwasher after saying he would and I had to do everything anddd watch the kids, urgh MEN ! " GENERAL frustrations/nitpicking from a busy mom and wife, it would feel more real, I'll leave it at that. 

I've been married 15 years.  We've had maybe 4-5 true loud arguments.  We don't snap at each other.  We always talk things out before they get to the argument stage.  And my spouse, when they say they will do something, they always do it.  I think they are from another planet, because I sure can't do that.  They promised to always do one specific thing and it's been 15 years and they've never missed a one, even if they have to wake up from a nap to do that thing.  It's not that common but people like that do exist and relationships as calm and harmonious as Chelsea and Cole's seem also exist.

[Eater of Worlds]

On 5/11/2018 at 12:43 PM, NannyBails said:

YES!  All this. 

I'm also bothered by the dance being only for girls and their fathers.  It's obviously not the same as a purity ball but it just rubs me wrong.  They should have a girl's dance and a boy's dance if they are going to do gendered dances and leave it at that, with the kids' partners being a close adult in their lives.

[Eater of Worlds]

On 5/14/2018 at 3:31 PM, ghoulina said:

 

Babs is constantly maligned in the press and on SM by her daughter and her succubus. I can't say I blame her if she answered "yes" to a few questions. 

 

UBT is an incubus, aka male succubus.  I really wish Doris would do something about Kaiser.  She and Nathan can file for custody, in that the kiddo would go to her with the full support of Nathan and she'd get child support money from him.  I wonder if that would increase her chances of getting custody.  Not the money but with Nathan's recognition that his mother is more stable than he is.  And Jenelle would have to pay.

[Kazu]

13 minutes ago, Eater of Worlds said:

UBT is an incubus, aka male succubus.  I really wish Doris would do something about Kaiser.  She and Nathan can file for custody, in that the kiddo would go to her with the full support of Nathan and she'd get child support money from him.  I wonder if that would increase her chances of getting custody.  Not the money but with Nathan's recognition that his mother is more stable than he is.  And Jenelle would have to pay.

And what exactly is Jenelle doing that the courts would view her as a irresponsible, unfit and neglectful parent who should not have custody? It takes a lot to remove a child from one parent and hand them over to someone else who is not the parent.  I know we know she is not a fit parent, but in the eyes of the court, she is just a parent who may have a household that is dysfunctional, but the courts don't view a dysfunctional family as reason enough to remove a child. If that is all it took, many of the children across this country would have been removed from their parents when an adult took their case to family court.

Nathan did go to court almost two years ago. He received joint custody and visitation.

Edited May 26, 2018 by Kazu

[Eater of Worlds]

On 5/17/2018 at 2:46 PM, Scarlett45 said:

 

Four months. I was floored. 

PS the mom did not die in childbirth or shortly afterwards.....just wanted to make that clear. 

I guess for the guy it’s nothing to move on so quickly. 1. They don’t have the physical aspect of pregnancy and labor, 2. Or the demands of being a full time caregiver most of the time. For a guy in that situation whatever he had with the mom may have been over by the time the sun rose. But no there’s no way for him to look good in that situation AT ALL. Even if they were never together, BOTH made the choice to have unprotected sex and she wanted to have the baby, it still looks awful. Like a Chris and Kailyn situation (although this guy was almost a decade older) but I wouldn’t touch a Chris type, hence why we didn’t go out again. 

Sorry for all the separate posts, the system would not let me do multiple quotes today.

 

I probably wouldn't be so critical.  I see nothing wrong with casual sex or one night stands, for one.  She might have moved on from the relationship before he did. People can have birth control failures.  My friend's second pregnancy was an IUD failure.  Condoms break. She obviously didn't feel abortion was a choice for her, or maybe she lived where it was nearly impossibly hard to get an abortion.  I would just have found out more about the situation if I was ok with my boyfriend having a new baby at home.  It's also entirely ok to not find that acceptable so I'm not judging you (if I were younger I wouldn't necessarily be ok with it either).  Just throwing out some possible reasons why it can happen and no one is upset that the relationship is over, besides stupidity being a reason for the baby on both their parts.

[Eater of Worlds]

3 minutes ago, Kazu said:

And what exactly is Jenelle doing that the courts would view her as a irresponsible, unfit and neglectful parent who should not have custody? It takes a lot to remove a child from one parent and hand them over to someone else who is not the parent.  I know we know she is not a fit parent, but in the eyes of the court, she is just a parent who may have a household that is dysfunctional, but the courts don't view a dysfunctional family as reason enough to remove a child. If that is all it took, many of the children across this country would have been removed from their parents when an adult took their case to family court.

I was thinking bruises on Kaiser and his behavior.  The kiddo can have time with a therapist/social worker who is trained to look at signs of abuse in young kids.  And if she condoned that abuse, then that's a black mark.  Women have been charged for allowing abusers access to kids and doing nothing about it. She hasn't mentioned to anyone (as far as I know) that she wants to leave UBT or she fears for her kids or that she's tried to get away but can't/is too afraid and that doesn't look good either.

[Kazu]

36 minutes ago, Eater of Worlds said:

I was thinking bruises on Kaiser and his behavior.  The kiddo can have time with a therapist/social worker who is trained to look at signs of abuse in young kids.  And if she condoned that abuse, then that's a black mark.  Women have been charged for allowing abusers access to kids and doing nothing about it. She hasn't mentioned to anyone (as far as I know) that she wants to leave UBT or she fears for her kids or that she's tried to get away but can't/is too afraid and that doesn't look good either.

Bruises on kids can happen in a variety of ways. Where is the proof that those bruises came from abuse versus playing outside on the 4-wheelers, falling down, slipping near the pool, falling on the steps or any other way that a child is capable of receiving bruises without it being abuse? 

Without concrete proof and evidence of child abuse (which in many cases has still not been enough reason to remove a child), the courts would not accuse a parent and remove that child. CPS has been to her home over 30 times and the children remain in her care. So, as far as the system is concerned, there is nothing that warrants having the child(ren) removed from her care. Even having her newborn with marijuana in her system wasn't enough to remove her child. Although I don't think the children are safe in her care and custody, the system is on Jenelle's side until something more concrete comes up or something far worse happens. Having worked in family law, I saw many cases where children remained with a parent even after they committed far worse than Jenelle.

All of Jenelle's kids have therapists.

Edited May 26, 2018 by Kazu

[DangerousMinds]

34 minutes ago, Eater of Worlds said:

Sorry for all the separate posts, the system would not let me do multiple quotes today.

 

I probably wouldn't be so critical.  I see nothing wrong with casual sex or one night stands, for one.  She might have moved on from the relationship before he did. People can have birth control failures.  My friend's second pregnancy was an IUD failure.  Condoms break. She obviously didn't feel abortion was a choice for her, or maybe she lived where it was nearly impossibly hard to get an abortion.  I would just have found out more about the situation if I was ok with my boyfriend having a new baby at home.  It's also entirely ok to not find that acceptable so I'm not judging you (if I were younger I wouldn't necessarily be ok with it either).  Just throwing out some possible reasons why it can happen and no one is upset that the relationship is over, besides stupidity being a reason for the baby on both their parts.

Great points. Condoms do break, I know that from lots of experience. Life can be messy; I don't judge so harshly now that I am older.

[Scarlett45]

On 5/26/2018 at 5:06 PM, Eater of Worlds said:

Sorry for all the separate posts, the system would not let me do multiple quotes today.

 

I probably wouldn't be so critical.  I see nothing wrong with casual sex or one night stands, for one.  She might have moved on from the relationship before he did. People can have birth control failures.  My friend's second pregnancy was an IUD failure.  Condoms break. She obviously didn't feel abortion was a choice for her, or maybe she lived where it was nearly impossibly hard to get an abortion.  I would just have found out more about the situation if I was ok with my boyfriend having a new baby at home.  It's also entirely ok to not find that acceptable so I'm not judging you (if I were younger I wouldn't necessarily be ok with it either).  Just throwing out some possible reasons why it can happen and no one is upset that the relationship is over, besides stupidity being a reason for the baby on both their parts.

I don’t think he was a horrible person or a dead beat Dad- but no just no. I’m childfree, I wouldn’t want to date someone with a child that young (even if it was a situation where he was totally honorable and his wife died in childbirth). I absolutely don’t think you’re judging me! People make mistakes, and it’s not the sum of them but that doesn’t mean I need to entertain them. 

 

Also, biology and gender roles being what they are, most women don’t have the energy to start new relationships when they have a four month old! They just want sleep, and comfy nipples (hahaha). I brought up my original post as a response to Briana dating someone new when Stella was so young- like where does she get the energy?!

[GleamingMist]

I barely had enough energy to shower when I had a 4 month old and an older child.  I couldn't imagine being in a brand new relationship at that point.

[Kazu]

16 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I don’t think he was a horrible person or a dead beat Dad- but no just no. I’m childfree, I wouldn’t want to date someone with a child that young (even if it was a situation where he was totally honorable and his wife died in childbirth). I absolutely don’t think you’re judging me! People make mistakes, and it’s not the sum of them but that doesn’t mean I need to entertain them. 

 

Good for you. I think you did what many people DON'T bother to do - they don't see the long term of being in such a relationship. If only the people on this franchise would take a moment to think about the future, they might have saved themselves a lot of heartache. They would also keep their children from being exposed to these part-time lovers.

Being in a relationship with someone who has a newborn or a young child is so different than being in a relationship with someone who is child-free. We are watching it play out in front of our eyes how having a child and being in a relationship brings forth a lot of issues not only for the adults involved, but the children as well.

Edited May 30, 2018 by Kazu